Friends, hello everyone. Some facts about my guest today. Biophysicist, doctor philosophy, which left quantum physics for the sake of an ambitious scientific goal defeat aging. One of the authors a sensational study on the potential the limit of human life at 120-150 years. Founder and CO of Gra AI, which with the help of artificial intelligence develops drugs against age-related diseases. Kira raised over $34 million investment to cooperate with such global pharmaceutical giants such as Pfizer and Chugai. Pyotr Fedichev, scientist and an entrepreneur who is considering aging not as an inevitability, but as engineering problem. Peter, thank you for that came. Thank you for I am very glad. As I said before, actually, our podcast, that a man who came from science business entrepreneurship is always so rare, but very interesting combination. So I'm glad that I have There is an opportunity to talk to you. A There are many questions. Let's. The chance of dying doubles every 8 years. How to live longer, there is less? The first cure for aging under named Ozempik. sales more than all revenue from all artificial intelligence models of intelligence. Old age is increasing risks of disease. What will happen? if there is no disease at all? Human What, will it live forever? I don't have 100% faith that this is It's generally possible. What we found is really people are working. In the USA they allowed test an anti-aging drug. Everyone will buy this. Moscow invested. Super Mega Changer, that is, everything will change. The old age pension will be purchased by the government. 150 years ago people lived 50 years. How many years will it take for the drug to appear? extending life by 200 years? In 2030, the market size for this The drug will cost $10 billion. Very a lot will change in the world where people begin live even longer. Your circle, your society influences the duration of your life. Hangover. This is an excellent biomarker. age. If you quit smoking, then most of the negative effect quickly disappears. The idea is simple, the implementation is complex. Our homeland is a lot of inhuman social experiments. I know specific people who modified their child. Progress in medicine changes things a lot life. I train systems that predicts what will happen to man further. Everything that is dear to us, decreases by 1% per year. By the way, friends, before we start, well, over 60% of our viewers watch the podcast without a subscription. So if you like what we do We are doing it, be sure to subscribe, Give it a like. Well, as for us, actually, Let's begin. Aging is an important topic. I'm 32 years, but nevertheless I am already today I'm thinking about how to look better, younger, how, actually, to extend your life. And the most important thing is not how to live long, but how to live a quality life for a long time. AND, as far as I understand, in our world in general there was such a tendency that we treated various diseases, tried to treat, not I know, Alzheimer's, heart attacks, something like that. prevent and so on. But at some point At that moment the idea arose that aging is this is, in general, not just irreversible process, but the same disease, over which you can work. And this is fundamental. completely turned the rules of the game and the approach upside down to what you actually are today you are doing. How did this even start? What was the first trigger that allowed look at aging under some from a different angle? Well, in 2006, probably. I was actually studying physics, I have it there I had a job and did good science. AND There was a publication in 2006, I'm talking about it By the way, I didn't know then. I once I came to Moscow, I was working at the time border in Europe. Came to Moscow, I was invited to a lecture by this professor Skulachev was at Moscow State University. Yes. And man showed the example of a mammal, which does not age. Moreover, the article where This was the first time this discovery was made formulated where it was shown that there are no age-related changes mammal, was written in 2006 year. And the topic of aging in general is people have been doing it for as many years as people They remember themselves, yes, there is our most ancient epic - it's about the fight for immortality. And now you can make a level opening that which exists, which does not age in the 21st century. This is what stunned me, that in such a science, where, in my opinion, then uninitiated from the outside, everything should it should have been known. If that science says that nothing can be done about aging if you do it, then that's how it is. Suddenly it suddenly turns out that there is, well, higher forms of life, almost the same as We. And it turned out that there were such many. Bats, whales, yes, some whales, sharks that are there He lived for 300 years, yes. Well, when I was studying at school, I I was choosing between physics and biology, I had this doublethink. And, well, I knew there were some animals, which either age slowly, there, turtles and so on, but I thought who I was and who are the turtles. But, in general, for me it never occurred to me that this was It can be practically interesting. And here it is when it turns out there in 2006 that existing ones that do not age, that there are many such flickering ones, and this is not some kind of half-asleep creatures, and this bats, that is, meropoda, which fly. Well, that is to say, it is definitely not about limiting metabolism there or calorie restriction or something else such. It kind of affected me a lot, and I thought that this was an amazing fact. If this is possible, then it should be some reasons, explanations and so on further. And the main thing is that in this science nothing has been done. And that was it for me it's just a very important factor. If there is some kind of science where do you see such a stunning example of what else is there in this science there is a lot that can be done, purely for scientist it right away my instinct immediately kicked in that there might be something there be an interesting science. I heard somewhere, You said that Alya is generally It's a cultural problem that a person is like that. always considered himself a higher being there. And why should I look at some there are animals there, and we need to look for someone else the solution is in them. But it turned out that, Actually, there is an answer to some questions there questions. How much is this in is this really true or was it? limited by something else? Well, that is to say the fact is, as it were, the world of biology, it quite extensive, and as if people and Scientists are observing various kinds mammals are studied in various aspects and so on. couldn't they somehow compare 2 + 2, that's it, guys, look, we have a whale there lives for 300 years, let's see In general, what's inside it and why? this is how it happens. People have learned that what you more, the lower your metabolism is per cell, but the less energy you have you allocate per cell. This is cool the reason why, for example, large organizations lose to small ones. How more of an organism, an organization, it doesn't matter, This is a universal fact in nature, than the bigger your size, the smaller yours energy produced per unit of mass. Yes. The bigger the size, the bigger energy is spent on coordination, less energy is used usefully. By the way, this is a good analogy with business. Indeed, that is also the case, yes, There are some really cool ones there. universal dependencies and so on. All this is being checked. Well, as if to people pragmatic people just need to know that a large organization is ineffective. Yes. Here. And the people who are engaged in science there and They've been trying to explain everything for quite a long time. At first this was noticed experimentally, and They even explained it later. Very good There were articles. By the way, I had a chance recently talk to a person who is who I figured it all out. Appeared explanatory hypothesis. Well, still very simple. The whale is big, he has every cell produces energy little damage because of this accumulates little. Here he lives for a long time. Everything is very simple in nature. The bigger you are, the longer you live. So smart people built this dependence, they inflicted all of it on her animals that they could find. Plus or minus a kilometer, calculated, schedule they built it and suddenly they see what is there some number of mammals, which fall outside this curve. Firstly, a person lives longer than it is appropriate for its size. A it turned out that this unfortunate naked mole, which lives in Somalia, lives a very long time. That is, it is the size of mouse. An animal the size of a mouse should live for 2 years. And it was known about him, that they live for several decades, It was unclear exactly how many, but dozens years. And the same thing with bats, they also less, but they live for 40 years. But that was just the beginning. When they began to study them, it turns out that if you caught a flying a mouse and it has webs between its paws disappeared, these are the first 6 or 10 days the membranes disappear, after that you can't understand how much She is years old. That is, everything is simple for a person and You can tell from the outside how old I am, yes, there, no matter what I make up about myself, the size of my nose gives away my age, no matter how many weights I lifted and how many I wouldn't limit myself with diets, Considering my nose, it turns out I was born old, yes, like that, yes. And these creatures don't have There is a test. That is, if you don't you see the rings on her, you don't understand, How old is she? So what do they do? They take those, who still has eardrums, that is, about which is known when when not born, yes, they ring. Oh, and what about them? very small, they are very difficult they study, but they take away a little bit from them blood, then they give them worms, they are fattened up so that, God forbid, they don’t they died from what was taken from them, well, to take blood from such a small one little animal. And practically no before Recently, a molecular test could not show how old they are. That is it amazing animals that have external the manifestation of aging is very limited and very long life expectancy for its size. And this fact, well, suspected him somewhere at the end eighties of the last century. But in order to find out, they need to somewhere to contain, count, ring. IN In general, you can't do this in one year. AND suddenly it turns out that these mammals, a, extremely slowly getting old, let's put it this way cautiously, and their risks of illness and death do not increase with age, because old age is What? Well, old age is two things. Old age means increasing risks diseases. Try to get sick Alzheimer's for 20 years, it's very difficult. Here. And a decrease in functionality opportunities. All that we need locomotor system, yes, cognitive function, motor apparatus, the ability to burn oxygen, yes, maximum load, which you can e everything that is dear to us, everything that determines the quality of life, decreases by 1% per year. Here are two of them there are reductions in individual processes functions. There are related ones increasing risk of chronic diseases. So, well, the longer people live, the probability of dying doubles every 8 years in humans. That is, you go out to street, you play roulette every day. U mole head the risk of death does not depend on age for the entire time that they managed to observe. That is, it retains its properties with age, yes, to myself this, Yes, yes. It remains in a permanent form. And this is, well, an absolutely amazing fact. At the same time, these are mammals, so that would be fine. it was there, I don't know, someone, it warm-blooded mammal, well, naked blood not quite warm-blooded, but bats super warm-blooded, very high metapolitical, and they don't have these signs of aging. And how can this be? be? We are made of the same stuff gland. Well, not iron, from the same thing same hardware. Made We have an evolutionary difference, well, there in tens of millions of years, which is nothing at all about the scale of what he does biology. That is, actually due to some kind of fine-tuning live organisms acquire non-aging properties. AND This is done more than once. This is not some kind of unique creature. This happens regularly, with different forms life, from the most primitive to the most complex. And judging by the fact that the person also stands out from this correlation, the man also apparently went evolutionary into a journey that we will end up getting old very slowly. In modern culture the eternal rush is the biggest deficit the ability to slow down has become. And the best the way to restore balance is to arrange for yourself a full vacation to take a breather and live without a clear schedule. Those Moreover, it’s a long journey with Avitotravel the trip becomes maximal accessible. 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That is, I was engaged in it at all there since the millennium, but it is meant the last decades have been very dense, because essentially all medicine, that's it As far as I've read, we've found a cure. from a specific disease, yes, but here it is changes the whole approach to what we do must be engaged. And here you can immediately ask yourself: what else haven't we do we know about the human body? What can just like how to change ours in general approach to existence and to attempts there influence us, cure us of something, preserve youth and so on? Well, I I think there's a lot we don't know. about people, because, well, for example, if we talk about some public and many moral standards, but a large some of them were developed, well, in ancient traditional times there, when people lived for 35 years, when a woman died for every third birth and so on further. That is, the progress of medicine is very greatly influences how we relate to life. Well, in general, the whole crisis there all the traditional systems that we we have been observing lately, in largely related to the fact that 150 years ago people lived there for 50 years maximum, well, average long-term life was from 30 there to 50 years in developed countries. Now they generally didn't have time to do much of anything, Yes? That is, Well, yes, there is loyalty until the grave and that's it. The rest was extremely easy to store. If you yourself live for 35 years, and your partner, most likely, she will die during her third pregnancy, Right? That is, a lot of things. True, the grave doesn't sound good. scenario in this case, yes. Well, sort of I'm reflecting on your question, what is In fact, progress in medicine is very changes life a lot. That is to say, this In general, culture and society, well, the same This is suffragism itself, the fight for rights women too. Well, what rights does a woman have if A woman does not live long, Yes? What investments in education are there? into something else, right? That is, because of there was a lot of asymmetry in this the rights of men, women, and so on. Now technology is changing all of this. fully. Now there, relatively speaking, People already spend almost half of their lives not quite in a reproductive state, where the difference between a man and a woman in the second half of life is not so big, as could be expected from physiological differences. Right? AND Yes, and women seem to be statistically right now already live longer than men, Yes? In addition, they live longer, and then in in some places they even accept less risky decisions and so on. AND In general, we see because of this that nuclear roles, well, for example, yes, because of progress medicine and technology in society are changing. I suspect a lot of them will change in the world where people begin to live even longer. This is a pretty new perspective for me. what is happening to society now, because there have been for the last few years This one is very much discussed, it seems to me, many places on the internet, in the news and so on further, that there is a new social world, a world The Internet influences institutions traditional, there for the family, on education, for something else. But this it's also a very global sphere, because in fact, how society was formed, it was formed not only because of communications, and that people united there in the pack, in the family, because otherwise you I couldn't survive, yes, and that's it, actually, such norms, morals and rules were formed because of these simple biological, let's say, some necessities. And when you, essentially, you just start living three times as much longer than you lived before, then yours the perception of many things is very strong changes. This is certainly interesting. interesting. If we want to go there, then if you look at all the traditional society, then in some sense they were such, I would say, naive geneticists and eugenicists. Well, that is, the blacksmith's son was a blacksmith, the son of a warrior was a warrior. Yes. And they also took a daughter from the clan as a bride warriors, right? Accumulating there certain genetic factors. Family factors. A Now Tin Tinder can send you not understand who and what of this. Well, that is to say as if a person finds himself in a situation where where in this mode, for example, there has never been reproduction. And with On the other hand, there are companies that are currently engaged in bearing children in artificial organs, for example, yes, then there is because women suffer during childbirth, their ability is reduced earn money and so on and so forth. That is, we can easily still go there through 20 years to find yourself in a situation where Most children are born with unknown origins whom, it is not clear where and who will decide. That is, if now genetics, well, is determined at least by some of our intuitive ideas about wonderful or at worst Tinder, then by what signs will they be combine genetic traits children in the future who will be born in communication from people? I'll try to guess, How. Yes, by the way, well, in general I understand, which is not the case in all countries, but at the moment there are already places where you There you can choose a color for your child. eyes, hair color, and so on. And that's all these things. In Singapore, for example, it is It is already allowed. Well, I just know. specific people who, in fact, in this way, as if modified your child, choosing some there number of parameters and checking there at the embryonic level, is everything okay with him, there, relieving him of allergies, some things. At least there's still some here parent number one, parent number number two, which will be the child, and then artificial intelligence of its own infinite wisdom will choose. Well, okay, we'll talk about this later. This such a departure into some kind of genetic engineering more. I definitely want to know about this too. talk. Let's take a step back. So, here comes this certain the hypothesis that, it turns out, we are at all they didn't solve the problem the way they should have it's up to him to decide. returned cultural cultural a piece here. That was cool, maybe we can talk. Ah, look, well, really, if you're sick, well, first of all, for everything God's will, as we know, but for some reason, when a person is sick, doctors were allowed to intervene and treat, Right? Well, there have always been doctors, the medical profession was engaged in diseases. However, if you look at the films, Now I'll try to perform the literature, cinema, here are all the people who tried to interfere with the aging process, they were unkind doctors. As a rule, this is some kind of evil force, these are vampires. Well, the person who wanted to save in his youth, he was some kind of narcissistic king conditional Well, it's always bad. Here, turn to attention, we just started now saying that aging is a risk diseases and decreased function. Why? in almost all cultures, including the Western one it definitely turned out that way in the culture that if If you're sick, you can get treatment, but you didn't get sick and you didn't get old, it's almost It's always been like that. In general, even the very thinking about what a person can do to resist death or to confront aging is culturally taboo. Me too it seems there, returning to the very at the beginning, it affects us very strongly, well, as a derivative of culture, in that including in science. We can spend any amount the amount of money to create a drug from cancer. We can create drugs for Alzheimer's. Enormous amounts of money are allocated for this money and so on. But the budgets that are allocated for the study and fight against aging, still negligible compared to the budgets that are allocated for the treatment of diseases. Here, if you allow, is my perception, Why is this happening, I really that's when I watched your interview and I thought: "Why is this happening?" Here, Honestly, I listened to you at some point. moments and I understand that yes, and there and it seems and here is the argument, and here is the argument argument, argument, here's the argument, I still don't have 100% faith that this is even possible. That is when we and we talk about what is there cancer and how much I I understand that today most there are still people there, yes, if they survive before cancer, then they die from cancer, like, yeah, We still have to live to see that happen. actually the problem we are solving is clear there to prevent aging at the level the idea sounds really cool, but in fact, when I kind of ask myself question, I think: "Well, this is definitely not on in my century", let's say so. It's somewhere very far away, and I don't really believe it. I I think that from the investors' point of view this is exactly the same story. Look, then, Today we have a specific pill, on which mom can earn tens, hundreds billions of dollars, but there is something unknown, it seems very cool, but We don't really believe in this. And that's why such an imbalance is created. How believe it? Oh, well, by the way, that's a great question. That there is, especially if the whole culture says that this should not happen, and everyday feelings tell me that there is such a thing there was none. AND in general, there probably isn't a single project, which would ruin so many investors, How much is an attempt to stop aging, yes, at all times. But I look at it a little differently, that we are here at our best condition than almost any other technological entrepreneurship. When people came to the president and they said that we need to make an atomic bomb, The atomic bomb did not exist in nature. And the planes on which the bird is located which have jet engines did not exist somewhere. People systematically do what is natural it doesn't happen, and at the same time they convince and investors, and the government, and so on that this is possible. Here we have there is this Somali naked mole, and also the bat, the whale and all the others, in which we see such insignificant the rate of aging, what if it put on people, if only to do at least if it were like theirs, then we would be talking about a multiple increasing life expectancy. To me It seems like we are in an amazing situations when we have proof that this happens. This a very fresh fact. I think that a significant part of the interest in practical extension of life instead treatment of diseases, it is precisely arose because people saw example. When people see an example, the argument that this doesn't happen, it happens, yes, no longer works. I agree. This is generally speaking, this is, It seems to me that this is the main property humanity, that, yes, until we do not we will make sure, Well, no one flies to the Moon either, right. That Yes, I think engineers can do it. to dream, well, technologically justified dreaming about something that doesn't exist in nature. This one of the probably most amazing abilities. human brain. Yes. And here, friends, it definitely exists. So you think that this data, which we have today moment, this naked mole and bats, this data is sufficient in order to, yes, that this flying the mouse is enough to rely on this data. I have a sample feeder, the same as me, who metabolically an order of magnitude more active than me. Yeah. Who doesn't want to die with that one the speed at which I am dying. Maybe he does, we don’t know. Yeah, well no. can. Yes, yes, this is interesting, by the way, This is an interesting anecdote. You can do it on this stay. Animals almost never have an extension life does not arise as a goal. It's almost always occurs as a side effect from something there. Yes. It is known that mammalian mutations that lead to dwarfism, prolong life. Flying the mouse really wanted to fly, and when you Flying Lekpetuyuschaya, it's hard for you to be big. Natural selection was required for dwarfism. Yes. And the second natural selection, which arose because they live in colonies of huge, as we know, Epidemics occur in big cities, right? That is, it took them a lot good immune system. So they simply died out, right? They would simply die from the disease, there unsanitary conditions, they don't even have access to the sewer system thought of it. With a brain this size It's impossible to invent a sewer system. So when you have both going on at the same time selection for dwarfism and good immune system, yes, then for some reason you don't you might get sick cancer. as a result, you see, it’s like this amazing amazing fact. I'm watching on how it happened mammals. I see that different mammals this happened in different ways way, for various reasons. Even at different bats that became long-lived, not everyone has the same. Biologically, a transition to switching occurs life expectancy. Well, whatever Do you still need to see here? This is not some kind of unique coincidence circumstances of some one animal in one ecological niche. We see this, that such a situation is happening in different ways in different animals many once in evolutionary development. Well, let's go as if those who doubt, wait another 15 million years, see the same thing at person. Look, now it’s like, How is the process going? So, we, we take this mouse, and we say the fact, it ages very slowly, and that means we we hypothesize that this is small-feeding. Accordingly, we can somehow transfer this to I don't know about a person at this level, replacements genes or something else. But then, as it were, further from this theory and some From the hypothesis a practical approach emerges. Let's break it down into two parts. First - How did you even decide to do this? to plunge and whether anyone has done it before you, someone before you put forward the hypothesis that a person can actually win aging as a kind of disease. And were there any? there are already some developments, something else, or you came so young and beautiful let them decide? Yes, no, of course not. Well, how? I already said, there in every generation human epic in every culture there is at least one hero who I tried to solve this problem unsuccessfully, yes. Uh, actually for physicists, oddly enough, are professional This disease is typical, there is several very famous physicists, who were interested in one way or another the problem of aging, and there are connections with it the second law of thermodynamics and so on further. And it's absolutely wonderful to eat. The second law of thermodynamics is when Let's say you boiled an egg and what do you do? you can't boil it back down. Yeah, well, what is disorder and entropy anyway? it grows so much that you can't reverse the process return successfully. In general, in fact There is a whole story. And, ah, a lot researchers went through the same by the way. But I want to say that for me Physics is just a certain approach. That is, I would say, such data-driven engineering approach e to the knowledge of nature. Prak do us a significant number of quite even famous physicists, Schodinger about I thought about this, for example. Here is the very one, This is probably an interesting example Streiler. Well, there was Streiler, he could do two things people who in the sixtieth year wrote the first quantitative theory aging in the journal Science, and which I I hope we've improved recently. And they all went through the same thing path. They watched as it happened aging in different living organisms. To it dawned on them that the explanation for aging It may be something. Yes. Then they were all shocked by the idea that aging is irreversible because it is accumulation of damage that cannot be rewind. That moment they were overcome despair. Well, because that's usually the case I had to reach it at 60, 70 years old in scientific biography. And many of them dropped off to study something else. That is, for example, here is that very one the trailer spent, well, the rest of its life, studying the problem, what It's called mind uploading, how to upload consciousness into a computer. Yes. And that was some kind of beginning seventies, when technology to I wasn't ready for this at all. That is me I would say that everyone is like that progressive minds before us, and went into this topic, understood approximately one thing, that reversible, what is irreversible, what determines speed, but every time on each the next technological stage came to different conclusions. And conditionally development of biotechnology in recent years allows you not to despair, knowing that such aging, and for the first time in practical I mean, start thinking about how to deal with him cope, because even if you don't you can reverse aging, you can stop. And these animals stopped him. What In my opinion, the trailer was lacking and other people, well, of his caliber before, it is to see an example of an animal that coped with aging. Your card is not supported. This short inscription on foreign websites ruined more of our plans than anyone bad weather. If you are also tired of it bumping into this wall when trying pay for the required service or pay off abroad, I have excellent ones for you news. For Russians, it is official and Service Card operates legally international systems Pay around the world. The main advantage of these cards over other foreigners in that they are released literally in 2 minutes straight from the phone and topped up with rubles through SBP without commissions. No need to go anywhere and use the services of unreliable intermediaries. The line of cards itself is well thought out so that you don't overpay for the extra functional. Need access to Claude, ChatChat GPT and working software or music. For This is why a subscription map was created. Are you planning a trip and want to travel comfortably? pay abroad with Apple Pay and Google Pay? Choose a card for travels that take in 160 countries of the world. By the way, if you If you're going to China, you can use the map. Link both CaliPay and Vchat Pay. A for those who plan to spend large amounts, there is a premium card with the most favorable rate, extended limit and dedicated 24x7 support. You can complete everything directly on the website. 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And, well, here it is this is a more valid reason for despair. Well, okay, if we saw, I don't know what all the animals have there, one gene breaks and they live forever, Yes, that was the story, yes. And if you have it happened to these people, it happened to these people, these are like that, these are flying, these are bald, and you you don't even understand who is who gene changes. Either go bald or get wings bald. And they also have matriarchies there, and they, some of them, no no warm-blooded, and some, on the contrary, Very. In general, you see a huge the amount of noise, you can't see one some kind of trend. And at that moment despair must really hit. And now, in my opinion, the second revolution, which happened recently, this is what that for the first time a huge the amount of biological data itself person. When you have a huge the amount of person data you can find out how human development occurs in a person. Yes. What happened, in my opinion, the last 20 years, which hasn't happened at all never that we can study constructions diseases in people that were before unethical, impossible, and so on. Now medicine produces such a quantity data that, well, there either with the help of pens, or modern generative ones models, you can recognize, well, approximately All. You can make it from artificial these artificial patients, you can model human health. Well then further we know as soon as people learn model something if you can simulate a flight to the moon, you to the moon you'll fly there. Well, it seems to me that this is it this is the main revolution that moves hope, as if ours generations, naturalists, yes, that has changed compared to what it was earlier. People used to be overcome with despair. Now that we can discard everything we know about others animals when we can only study people, we can find out what biology affects specific diseases and specifically on the rate of aging in humans. Yes. That is, in essence, at that moment, when did you receive confirmation and how an idea came up to approach this task as if it would consist in the fact that It's easy to model it on paper Well, I mean this one, yeah, I mean on paper, I mean on the computer, yes, on the computer simulate a situation in which aging will slow down or stop suggest a reason why aging may turn off. And this is me in That moment triggered me to come. from physics, because physics is interesting science where, well, you know, You can talk about quantum mechanics there talk to the common people about the kart burrows, there are black holes, about the general theory relativity. I recorded a couple of podcasts on this topic, So basically you can you can in a bar to support the conversation on these two topics. The light is perceptible, Yes. But in the seventies, physicists still one revolution happened where people became study how in complex systems new behavior appears. Here's what is called merger. This is when in new ones are starting to appear in the system properties that are not present at the part level, Yes? Here's society, why chemistry is not Physics, why biology is not chemistry, Why is psychology not biology? and so on, yes, with a kind of increase some new scale appears properties, and these properties do not converge with the general model, that is, they fall out what creates there or, I don’t know, there in autoimmune diseases in humans There are crises in the markets and so on, right? Yes, when something like this arises, well, like the Bolsheviks they said quantity quality happens, at some point you have the system starts to behave somehow, Well, that's how the difficulty increases, yes. Here this is what awaits us now artificial intelligence when it will start doing something on his own that we We can't guess yet. But obviously everything is heading this way, Yes, everything is clearly heading in that direction. Well, anyway that's all the development of chemistry there, biology, society, and so on, that's it there are always revolutions like this, like this bifurcations, phase transitions, when some new qualities arise, they they begin to live among themselves in a new way. And so physics learned in the seventies years of building models, how is this possible? is happening. And we have a lot of physics like that. models. Here your temperature is dropping and the resistance of the material drops to zero. And it doesn't just become small, but just disappears. There was resistance, all materials have resistance, then something clicked and it disappeared, and then you raise the temperature, it happens again appears. Yes. There is mass in physics. examples when some quality is here it was there, and then it was completely gone. This it's just such a universal property complex systems. And there in 2015 he wrote the first paper where he suggested, that aging is exactly like that a property that can exist and disappear depending on the change parameters in a fairly complex biological system. When I was in 2015 It's clear that he wrote such nonsense, well, in No biologists published it, right? Yes. In biology, if you have one the formula in the article, it reduces citation rate doubled. So if you don't God willing, you'll write about how we do physics are used to writing a paper where this is explained using equations, such as, Well, this kind of biology doesn't go very well. And so, in my opinion, between the fifteenth year and now this is what, in my opinion, the most important revolution has happened, this is the fact that generative models have emerged, who can look at the data and to come up with a model that is sufficient, to reproduce this data. That which Before you wrote with pens, and each line the code halved your quote. Now you can present it in the form code, and you have a code that allows you to understand how it works biology directly from human data. Interesting. This, as I understand it, is what, mm, this is to some extent Andrey Doronievich, you and I were reminiscing, he told me told what they do in Biooptics. This is what they are trying to do with reproduce these models some- come up with some new proteins, conditionally, yes, either proteins or drugs, yes. Yes. So, essentially, you have this: you do something similar to some extent, that is, you use technology reproduce something that is capable lead to aging. But if in his case in order to find there a cancer pill, it's some kind of proteins, then What do you need to find in your case? In science, this is called solving the inverse task. When you have a lot measurements of some system, flies rocket, you look at it with radar, against you is a radio-electronic force by fighting, you get very noisy signal, and you need to write code that finds out where the rocket is and you're in it you can definitely hit someone, as if also remove all noise, remove all the noise and decide why it is is called the inverse problem. You need it figure out what the source should look like reflected signal in order to get that one the mess of signals you see yourself on the screen. in order to go there accurately deliver an anti-aircraft missile. Here such tasks, like titans, mathematicians, who They don't do it anymore, just like at first We learned from the Nazis at the end of the war decide, and then they arrived, half of them to America, half The Soviet Union taught us how to solve problems. And in As a result, here is a whole direction mathematics, which became a theory there management, something else, it gave rise to a situation where it is possible with the help of radar and lunar spacecraft send people to the moon as a result only a few orbital corrections. Right. Yes. As if in medicine, oddly enough, we We have a very similar situation. We have a very complex system that we have there once a year, once every two years, there are normal people there They measure themselves somehow. It's very noisy. You ate before the tests, you didn’t eat before tests, so that you don’t have to they said. Different seasons, different country, before this in a different climate I had a rest and went today, this year scored, next year he came three times, because you have an itch. Well, that is, you get a huge one a data array that is mostly noise, which is related to your lifestyle, moving, food and everything else. But if you look at the huge array of these data, then you can put e the algorithm the task: "Come up with something like this for me description of internal processes in in the body, which is this mess on 100 million patients that you have in database, generates." In fact, you you create an artificial person, which one is mutual which one is studying on data, like real people interact with the medical system, but is able to produce the same data indistinguishable from the real thing. That there is, roughly speaking, your task - load a huge amount into the car data so that he could, on the basis of these data to mold some imaginary person, and then this person to undergo some changes so that it I can be an imaginary person, I can with what should they do there, right? So you throw something at him and you look at the reaction of how it reacts organism. Simple idea. That is the idea is simple, the implementation is complex. No, absolutely not Exactly. This is just what has changed over the years the last 20 years. It's just that everyone knows about generative artificial intelligence using language models as an example, right? A language model is a machine that predicts the next word. I make the same system that predicts the next interaction with doctor. That is, I take medical ones stories and continue them until the end life. Yes. I train systems that predict what will happen to a person further. That is, look, am I right? I understand that now, if you look in general, on what is happening in medicine, In pharmacology, the main problem is that you can't, roughly speaking, take a a person and conduct experiments on him, and even if you can, you it will take a huge amount of time. Here you can put these fictional experiments and you can speed up process in time to understand how I wonder how this will develop. Wow. This is, well, it’s a simple idea, but This is how we build nuclear reactors. Now we make airplanes, but people are Previously, everything there was blown through wind tunnel, but now only it's blown through. But the majority developments are done on computers, because people know how to model, well, there are streams of water and air, what. The most The funny thing is, I don't know, uh, I saw it. have you ever been in Formula 1 or not? let's say they have, of course also like computers, wind tunnel and so on further. But even with all this, when For example, they are launching a new one there car or some changes there happened, they arrive before the race practice and apply it to the front of the car paint. The car actually passes by a few laps and they watch this paint is spread over the body of the Polevriya in order to see in practice that is happening. Of course, yes. Well, in what we we do, of course, in the end, probably will do a clinical trial. The question is different, what if you don’t have this? this modeling, then it seems to you The next experiment is a miracle. You do experiments, you don’t know, You can't get the data. That is, you have somewhere it worked, somewhere it didn't work, you analyze in general, yes, it is not clear, like, well, there are a lot of books on there history and philosophy of science, but here indeed there at the end of the 15th century some kind of revolution happened, something like that Western science and technology have broken out forward. Why? Because people forced themselves to explain that happens, do bad, let them be bad, but models. And within these models you You can first calculate what will happen, and then then do it. And at that moment there is, well, a colossal acceleration there are engineering and scientific thoughts there. The state is now actively competing for international capital and create for comfortable conditions for investors. 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This is what is still wrong with medicine today. pores, because medicine is a science, well, that's it You can just compare, yes, create a new one there is an airplane or a rocket and create a new one the medicine costs about the same amount of money. But it is possible, of course, ask someone, but we will be sure, what if i want to launch someone on The moon, then before they give me this a billion dollars, I'll count it there, perhaps a few tens of kilograms. I'll calculate how much fuel there will be, what size will it be, what will it be trajectory, how long will it take me to get there, how much oxygen is needed and so on. All This will be calculated very accurately. Both only then can it work. IN in medicine, nine out of ten drugs, which we experience do not pass clinical trials. And the majority failures - it's not toxicity there, it's lack of efficiency. That is to say, there was excellent hypothesis, that's all It should have worked, they did a great job a medicine that does exactly the same thing what should have been done. But then you you give this to the patient. the patient first 2 One week is good, then not. After the biological system is being restructured So the effect of your drug disappears. fully. Adaptation is taking place. Adaptation, yes. This means that if we could model Indeed, nine of the children's drugs. Where is it from to debaldet'? But the word rocket, forgive me for that interrupt. It occurs very often People have a question: "What the hell type am I Am I paying so much for the medicine? After all there, its production costs approximately 3 cop, huh? Yes. You still pay for nine." And for all the investments that are in each of these nine were made and went to just a dump. Yes, yes, it is So, accordingly, we don't need airplanes like that They are needed, so I make them count. A We need medicine so much that society is ready to pay in deuterium for medicine, if only there was one. Yes. That is, the level of, well, despair in medicine is such that without any modeling, well, based on the principle, well, it Well, it will probably help, let's do it let's try, we can get dozens there millions, hundreds of millions of dollars creation of a trial for new drugs. Yes. In my opinion, real progress will come when we at least in half of these unfortunate cases we will learn to model the effect of the future development before we try it in people. And it's not just because we We love people, that's what many people think there is ethics and so on. Ethics is very is important. It's just a factor of speed of time. Yes, yes, yes. Listen, I wonder, you know, you're talking now, and I, Of course, I understood that, well, I understand I am convinced of this every day, that there are models and artificial intelligence have a very strong influence in today's world. But if you imagine that this is in some the moment it starts working, then it's simple Super Mega Game Changer, that is, it will change in general, everything in the world from the point of view of life a person, because it will be possible to build any forecasts very quickly and much more girls. If we learn to do medicines, like we make rockets now, then society there for 30 years we we are not Let's get to know the society we live in. Listen, why is this being changed? exclusively here are technologies from the point of view there was AI or something else interfering with the vision before come to this? For some reason there is it's obvious that there is something to do with aircraft manufacturing they came a long time ago, that's because understood that one plane was falling, you seem to have a lot of people dying, yes, and each time, they would take it and they started counting: "Let's count twice in advance, before we send the plane "into the sky." Why here? Here too, if you, so to speak, didn't help there a person or, on the contrary, helped them harm, then, accordingly, with a person something bad happened on the huge scale. Why didn't you come to this earlier? attempts to build such models? Well, well, look, I think that again we can go back to the beginning of our talk about culture, yes, and historical changes. And in Homer's time, there were 30 something there You've been a senator for years now, haven't you? You are 60 years old. You are already that gerantocrat there, who is a wind You can influence any decision of the king. Most people are like this from a girlfriend named Lena in the neighboring city they blow and fight. The main death is to die either from diseases, well, infectious diseases, or from war. And therefore, society with infectious diseases to do nothing is possible. Well, nobody knows that such as microbes and so on. But society invests almost all of its money into the war. Even the beginning of the 20th century, if we Let's see where the smartest people are work, engineers who do tanks, planes, radio, here we see, How did the war advance development in general? technologies, yes, as an example. And here it is Now let's fast forward to today. So, there are fewer young people now than old, conditionally, well, in developed countries. There in Canada there is less access now than after sixty birds. This is the first time something like this has happened. it has arrived, right? Well, hell is happening in Japan too. Well, in Japan, well, that's what they call demographic transition. It's happening in all countries that reach there a certain level of well-being. Well, count everywhere, yes. Here's what's changed over the years the last 100 years? If it was possible there earlier it was necessary to field a ten-million-strong army It's easy, but now not all countries can to field a ten-million-strong army. And what about poop? What problems are there more of now? How to do it New military aircraft or how to cure Cancer? Well, judging by today's, by the way The news about the military aircraft is relevant, Yes? It's as if the past is snapping back. But if look at the trend, this is, by the way, me, when I switched from physics in biology, I have a very interesting the conversation took place with one very smart person the person who tells me: "Look, Well, imagine what it's like there in 20 years people will be worried about how the new assemble a machine gun or an atomic bomb, or How to cure a truck if you look at it pharmaceutical income and weapons industry income industry, well, it's more or less kilometer, the pharma is killed ahead. Such "It's never happened before." That is, a trend such that due to the fact that the population rapidly aging and burden of diseases it's growing, and the trend is such that you have there will be more public attention now diseases, the same as before possible was in service. They used to be smart Mathematics students are here for that do everything that I'm talking about now, yes, Of course, we need data, yes, we do, Of course, algorithms, but to do all this come up with, you need people, well, proficient in mathematics, friendly with mathematics, who would do this. IN the sixties would have been a man, who is friends with mathematics in medicine. Yes, I do, Well, yes, that's clear. Obviously, it's more likely in total he will become some kind of doctor in district clinic and earn money there nothing will happen. Well, well, it’s not even a question of earning money, Which was prestigious, right? That is, there, relatively speaking, there if we talk about students there are MSU, FISTEHA, if you capable of mathematics, but this is definitely not there was medicine, and now the world is changing. Now if you good at math if you're friends with with these algorithms, so where else can you earn so much if you, well, Can you imagine, now it's just a description? profession specialist in artificial intelligence, bio bio biotechnological companies. Yes. Every time you have a problem where to go talents will come. There there 80 years ago they went back to the backyard, and now they will go Now if you look at many biological groups who are involved aging, almost everywhere there are people from Data Science and many of them are former physicists. We'll go a little to the side now, We will definitely return to this topic, but about This is also a cultural change. Here it is In fact, I gave Canada as an example, here I am He also said something about Japan. This is the same thing completely changes the global model. And now it’s already huge problem because, for example, pension stopped working in general, yes, and earlier there it was like that there were five young people on one old man, taxes and, actually, They're retiring, everything's fine, the system works. Now it's the other way around, conditionally saying, for every old man there are two young ones, which work, and the system starts collapse. There are many there, I remember, there in I mean, in my time, I was like, "Oh, that's what happened in Russia." pension reform. In fact it is how will all developed countries come to this? countries. If you look at the pensions reforms, they happen everywhere, because that the state simply cannot to support the previous model, actually, old people. And there are more of them, more, more. And if everything happens develop the way you do you say, now we definitely need to talk about this I'll talk about people living there. conditionally, not as we think, there are not 60, 70, 90, 100, then it becomes even more is also a big problem. They are alive and well, but they are dysfunctional, incapable. They they can't produce anything, they don't can think, they just sit and eat, they are walking. And that's all they can do. And at this point the economy gets into a certain collapse. Here you have it some thoughts on how in general the world and countries will change in in this regard, if indeed such progress will happen, and it is already what's happening? Well, I think we're mathematically right now have proven with certainty that the countries in which the problem of aging will not be solved, let's say it carefully, they will test it colossal difficulties. They will experience colossal difficulties. Why? Because let's imagine this for a second that there is no medical problem in general, all diseases are cured the next day. Well, what else are we still infinitely distant. It's all the same anyway determines economic capacity person, decreases by 1% per year. This interesting fact. We can look at ninety-year-old people. There are such people now it's getting bigger and bigger. There it is in Singapore, in Hong Kong life expectancy is already under 87 life expectancy. That is There are a lot of nine-year-old people, which means Half of people live to be 87 years old. What is this anyway, Yes? So, people who live to 90 p years old, they are very healthy at 90 years old. This amazing fact, but if they were unhealthy, then by this point they are already, most likely, they would have died of age dependent diseases. That is to say, it is very these are people who often experience cancer, who don't die from cancer. This is it with the medical points of view are very healthy People. From a medical point of view, yes, Yes, but functionally destroyed. Here what's happening in these now Asian countries, this is such a preview future, in which, a, in which it is possible see where the medical problems are resolved, they are not completely resolved there, but significantly resolved, and functional problems associated with aging are not resolved. Yes. No, you get it right, say huge. the number of people who are economically non-functional, that is, they even themselves they can't provide it yet with the costs medicine. That's why in such countries, well What are the alternatives? Well, robots, Migrants or a solution to the problem of aging. So you mean aging in in terms of not treating the disease, and so that people would be, say, 80 years old functional so that they can create additional value. Yes. We have now mathematically proven, that a society that does not solve the problem functional decline of functions, here is 1% cognitive, physical, whatever, everything decreases by 1% per year in a person, even if there are no diseases. This one is this one a fact that people underestimate, yes. From what age, by the way? Well, from about 40 years old. This is a fact that people underestimate, yes. It seems to me, again, if there talk about some culture, yes, there is some kind of culture there that I didn't pay any attention to the problem at all aging. This is often the case, in my opinion, a culture appears that is connected with biohacking and so on. People say: "Okay, fine, let everyone get old, but I'm not like that. I train, I pass Blood tests 20 times a year, am I right? I eat, I have a personal coach there and and so on." And it won't affect me, Right? Well, the same thing will happen percentage per year. There is no way. Well, you can improve these indicators. Well, right now, yes, and you'll stop train, two max will fall there back to where I was, yes. Yes, you You can increase it by about 5 years in relation to the average trajectory, all these parameters by the way you spend in in the gym, as much as how much increased life expectancy, approximately. But the functional decline is all it will be the same. And here is your argument about economics, it is just such that if Well, no one will decide anytime soon. the problem of stopping the functional lowering of a person, then we will find ourselves in the most terrible version of the future that one can only imagine. who can't do anything. Yes, where they don’t let you die, because How to escape a stroke gracefully now almost impossible. You will be saved without your desire, Yes? Ten-year cancer survival rate 50%. Ten-year survival rate of Imedu, what after living, yes, on average There are cancers in the hospital where people die instantly. Nothing has happened with this so far it can't be done, but there is a lot types of cancer, where, well, there is no need to bring it to yourself there to the point of metastasis at the moment of turning to to the doctor. Here's the average for the hospital now ten-year cancer survival rate recently turned 10 years old. That is, it is impossible to simply leave. Well, in a society where there is access to In medicine, you can't just leave. This means that this is functional decrease, which is aging in fact in fact, it is, well, actually inevitable, will affect a huge number of people, and, the overwhelming majority of people, and, will live the last three lives in a state significantly reduced inflationary opportunities. And getting back to this, then There is a humanitarian part, that's about it which I am talking about now, and besides humanitarian, there is economic. Countries like Singapore. Why is Singapore like this? invests a lot in healthy longevity? Because, well, Singapore is run, relatively speaking, there are philosophers who They think 20 years ahead. They have a lot there politically peculiar. They see a huge number of old people, Yes. And they see a very simple thing, that, Well, they don't really like it with migrants. political decisions, right? That is, either to bring in migrant workers, or They don't have any place to take them. Well, well, I won't talk, I just won't. They like this solution. It's like They have a long-term plan Z in case of probably, if nothing at all it will work, right? This is either some kind of this is the kind of rehabilitation of this population, there robot nannies, well, at least somehow hold this one. That is, there is one problem - this is the cost of medicine, and the second is economic potential. And of course, if someone gave birth solution where functional decline slowed down, well, there, for example, times two, then this is the question of who This is necessary. Here they will buy the medicine for old age not people. They will buy a cure for old age government. Because the only one, Who understands the scale of the disaster from the power plant? aging in the next 30-50 years this is the government of developed countries, who just think what will happen to pension. This is a democratic country. Well, you can't. Well, well, I mean, Well, most of them are towards people. they listen. There is no scenario in which politicians will vote for the abolition there pensions or not there I see, yes. Impossible to lose. That There is such a thing as a stalemate now. the situation is like a train rushing towards wall, and in this train Akil also falls. Interesting theory. I can try. oppose one theory to another? So, u I have a friend who is very close is engaged in artificial there intellect, he has his own there laboratory, they seem to be there for themselves They think different models are being built and so on further. And here in his picture of the world she is, probably converges to some extent with the ideas that Musk conveys there through some lines. The only one who did not invest in a company associated with with longevity. Well, that's exactly what I'm a clone of, right? he is just unlike Altman, there, Brina and so on, does not invest in this is because his concept, here, Actually, my friend, who is this? Harrison, what does he say? A basically, if you look at what what is happening today, we understand that More and more liquidity of money goes into AI and as if and as if there is besides as if AI Also robots, yes, robotics. Now the only problem is that, actually, it doesn't allow us to get out yet the next step is that they are robots They are very cool, but they are very stupid. AND This is kind of the main problem. As soon as artificial intelligence will reach that point stages when this robot's head it will be possible to implement it some chip that will be smart, then this moment was like everything that happened Before that, it will cease to matter. Because people are like people, like people, who work somewhere, like people, like We people are sitting here, it’s not them will be absolutely necessary. That is understandable the point is that some minds will remain great ones who do something, decide global tasks, but all everyday professions, all this will recede into the background plan. And at this moment we inevitably we come to what Musk was talking about, yes, that ultra-ultras appear ultra-trillion dollar companies, accordingly, their state is taxed super-high taxes because the state has no other options, otherwise there will be no money. Accordingly, and these taxes are further in the form of a base tax income is distributed among people. AND, In fact, the economy is changing its whole some kind of this flow starts work on completely different models. Not a person works for himself in order to earn money to become part of this GDP, so to speak, to spend this money, and he receives some subsidies, because something so huge will happen rupture, delamination, what is it like It's simply impossible to imagine. This is it alternative model, Yes. Well, in general, I don’t know the future It's difficult to predict, as we are now just thinking, Yes, I'm just thinking. I am also for myself always I Who are you here? Doctor philosophy. Yes, I still have a diploma. with a typo. I am also a PhD Amstromsky's astrology university. I have Yes, I have remained to talk. I have a plan B in case A I always seem to know about myself that we usually greatly overestimate technologies in the short term and we underestimate, that is, for a long time there, Certainly, somehow for a long time the paradox of the farm space is silent. And I see that in the distance The outlook is very bad. Well, we'll be the first. This is not about us, we we'll manage. Yes. I also understand that if look at the same Alla Mask, well, which I have endless respect for and so on, but he has all the predictions, Well, it's like thermite energy always happens in the next five years, as you know, right? That is us we see that even people who they touch these directly with their hands technologies, they systematically, well, Moreover, in the example with the MAC we already see it there more than 10 years, systematically overestimate the nearest the nearest exhaust, and, well, it's terrible, Yes. We still see a situation where cars, well, when it was supposed to self-driving cars were supposed to appear 10 years ago they said more than more decades. Well, yes, I am. Mas the same one promised, Yes. Well, again, I don’t put it in his as if in reproach, yes, that's exactly why a simple rule that people have such a remark there is, yes, on the perception of some changes. That is to say, I think that some middle way will happen, because that, well, first of all, artificial intelligence has been around for a long time, well, people they produce, I don't remember, some American general said that floating reproduction is the cheapest way make an aircraft sight. That is, for now there is no other alternative. Everything that happens in industry is much more expensive, right? That is, what we we see that there is a huge amount people and, well, there are people who There are people who train machines They train people, yes. Here for all the years we decided to eliminate the existence of pedagogy the problem of how to train correctly. That There is already hardware, there are already powerful ones brains that could be Einsteins, Mozarts and so on. Do we know how to do them? train so that systematically produce? Well, very well trained, It seems that this person is trained, Yes? Well, obviously not systematically. we still don't know how, systematically no, right? That is, as if for all the time of working with human beings brains that we still have let's continue, well, pedagogy is one of the the most complex systems that people few countries do it at all few systems can do this systematically to produce engineers, politicians and and so on. Yes. Yes, of course, with the advent of computers, with the advent of computers and artificial intelligences that can be trained much faster. We, of course, let's move towards solving this problem and further, but just now the majority people who predict the outcome applications of artificial intelligence, They think, first we'll make platforms, and then then we'll see how to teach them. I'll tell you I say, guys, calm down a little. There is already a platform, yes, it is biological, they look so beautiful, but let's look at all the problems that you then if you want to decide, practice on this one. There is a normal amount there neural connections, there is the speed of learning, everything is fine with her. What I mean is that no training datasets so far. We are not we can, we can not create a training dataset. People learn instantly drive a car. With all the volume data that is there Tteesla, Weima and so on further accumulated, we can not do the system that controls the machine in a human way. Just imagine that here, that is, yes, let's imagine that we will have hardware that has, Well, human cognitive abilities, Yes, the connection quality is the same there. further. Where is the training dataset that says that you can train in Einstein, train in this, train in this? Good question, by the way. I'm not saying that it's impossible. Here I don't mean anything in what I just said said that this would not happen. No, no, it’s not about what won’t happen. This is about something that is not there now and not yet We really understand how to do it, yes, that's it much longer, Yes? This is this very quantity, which should develop into quality, that besides the actual creation of iron, once this will definitely happen. But what will be the role of people in this? Which will there be a time of existence? How are they Is this what they joke about now? Soft rise artificial intelligence, hard. Well, I'm having a hard time thinking about this right now. speculate. I see that it is artificial intelligence helps a lot, in fact. Well, almost all scientific ones groups work with one way or another artificial intelligence. The role even language models in the scientific process is constantly growing. However, we see years of application, a, language models, Well, that's the real thing already artificial intelligence, yes. We see years of use by scientists, including the most leading scientists. And we see, Well, you can count them on your fingers. cases that were once decided by some, Well, there are math problems. That there is, I would say, a huge one the amount of brains trying to use for the scientific process, tries use artificial intelligence. Results where it is gets into top scientific journals directly now, just because it's the first once. But the solution to this problem itself is unlikely would ever make it into the top scientific magazine. This tells me that the role the human being is colossal. This is it artificial intelligence systems, that exist now are very good help. There is a case, yes, well, to become great, it's a matter of chance, Yes. These are technical skills and imagination. Yes, that's the famous phrase Einstein, that imagination is most important the rest. Yes. A there were a lot of examples when there the most powerful, including the Soviet one the theoretical school was engaged in some problem, people were technically educated to do anything. Someone from the people came, whom they would never accepted into their theoretical group, because, well, there are technical skills none, I guessed something, like in theories of superconductivity, and then all this the machine came and solved everything. Uh-huh. But this first moment when someone did something crazy, that's it a very important part, so to speak. And I think, that this will ever happen. That is I don't have any chauvinism, what's there? biology can do something that it can't know how to make cars. But I think that This process will take, well, take it, How Elm Musk learns deification. Well, on this scale The figure should probably be multiplied further to some extent. This is the task at hand a little more complex. see how many people can do it How many people manage companies? can create a trillion-dollar company and How many people can drive a car? AND something makes me think that The car's controls are simpler task. Well, yes, and moreover, even if look at the cars, there besides there are a lot of social issues too emerged from a training perspective. Well, there is. this is this basic thing, yes, conditionally speaking, crossing the road, who to hit, hit this one in the windshield or knock down that one. A there are even more social issues here will take when you take the robot and you say: "We put brains in it," which can think like a human being. Same there are a lot of nuances. so many. But for me It seems that we see how it is is being done. If you look at people, whoever receives the Nobel Prizes, they most often learned from people who received Nobel Prizes. That is it is obvious to everyone who goes into science or who wants to start a business, there is the opportunity to read any textbook. IN there is no secret knowledge in science, Right? All textbooks are available. Want learn theoretical physics, here you go textbook, do you want to learn business? a bunch of textbooks, right? But we we understand, and we know for sure that people, those who study from textbooks, usually, well, with rare exceptions, far from they come in. Well, yes, even those people who study in universities, but they reach some outstanding achievements are noticeably less frequent than those people who learned from people who themselves I achieved this. There is no specific knowledge. But here it is these few years of working together masters and apprentices creates a situation where the training takes place, well, before the training fine-tuning one network to another mesh, yes, that is, a young mesh, like would be the old grid. And we see that it is and some big ones are growing there discoveries. This is actually it it contradicts something a little bit egalitarian view of the world. But it's not for nothing that there are many investors there when decide who to invest in, They look at what kind of institution a person is finished. Yes. This is absolutely not a small thing, right? Why am I saying this, that knowledge is everything openly, yes, and all these systems are learning, all books have been read, all scientific articles read, but there is still some the level of knowledge that is associated, what chooses the tasks, what approaches he chooses, What's cool, what's not cool, taste. Yes indeed as if, Well, yes, you can't educate someone according to a textbook, I agree. There are so many aspects like this. Very. Once again, someday this too it will definitely happen, yes, and someday the machine will solve the inverse problem. There it is Now I know someone wants to teach model on knowledge before Einstein and let's see when the model decides, well, invent a theory of relativity from and knowledge that does not leak, yes, that is, Well, it would seem like a Turing test meaningless, yes, as we understood, yes, then The cars passed the Turing test, but there are no miracles. did not happen. And here is this test now offered as a new generation Turing test, yes, can we? create an Einstein who will read everything Einstein knew and will do the same the most thing Einstein did? Well, that's it. It's cool because it's actually like that since there is this factor of chance, yes, It's very unclear how much Fj is emerging He famously said it at the time. Zachalmenstein made his theory relativity, there was not a single one experimental fact that she would, Well, it contradicted existing knowledge. Class. Let's take a step back. I I want to talk about a cure for aging. So, look, I understood the model, what are you doing. It's incredibly difficult. That is, and well, how could you have been doing this for 10 years already? You're doing it, right? do you have a partner, who, as I understand it, is involved in BD partly, yes, just, actually, mutual attraction of money and interacted with business partly, you You are responsible for science. And like, well, it's delightful. I'll honestly say that for It's very difficult for me and I don't I can imagine how this could happen to give in, but you kind of told idea. But let's try it now to bring this even more into practice. Means, the thought that really struck me, it I want one like this on both sides look. I heard you, that in general We already have, as it were, the first medicine from aging called Ozempik, which, in fact, proved that like a cure for diabetes, which began to be used en masse, he began burn fat, like, well, more precisely, people stopped wanting to eat, started losing fat, and this seems to prolong life. And at I immediately felt a contradiction here, because if you take any doctor, I don’t know, If you see a cardiologist, the first thing he'll tell you is he'll say, it's not the first time, there will be smoking, but The second will be obesity. These are the two key ones problems that make people seem live fewer years. And it is obvious that, as it were, if a person simply got rid of the excess weight, got rid of fat, from western fat, his organs began to live in peace, then, accordingly, he it will be easy to live for this reason longer. But in my opinion, this is confirmation is not proof that Ozempik as this is the medicine of the sarcasm. Explain how you think here, because that I have a contradiction. Well, again, we are now from the very beginning The conversation divided the effects of aging into two parts, yes. Here is this decrease, uh, in body function, yes, and there is, uh, the burden of the disease, yes, that is number of chronic diseases, age-related. Yes. And it is obvious that if a person does not have diabetes and obesity, then get sick with other diseases It's more difficult for him to cope with age-related diseases. In general, the first rule is, you walk age-related disease, first of all diabetes. This is straightforward advice. This is excellent advice. The idea works perfect, yes, If diabetes does not cure obesity, Yes. Early diabetes reduces life expectancy increased by almost 6 years person. So, well, kind of returning your argument, of course, if someone will come up with a cure tomorrow, which, let's say, would be completely cured diabetes, yes, that's the maximum let's pose the question, that's not it there would be no side effects. U people who do not have diabetes did not nothing, but for people who are early, Well, in general, diabetes at any age, she I would turn it off the next day fully. U then the overall effect on longevity such a medicine would have, of course, but would be less than 6 years because, Thank God, not everyone has early diabetes, Right? It would help, well, Returning to your logic, it would help only to those people who, uh, if early diabetes, then it would have been extended by 6 years life, who does not have diabetes at all How many. Well, the effect would probably be, several years. Well, well, on average, yes, We won't go into details now, yes. How would such a drug increase long life, yes, using in population, giving it to everyone from the age of 40, such an ideal medicine life expectancy of all has increased would be for 3 years, right? Those people, which diabetes would increase further quality of life would increase productivity and so on. Effect insignificant 3 years on phoneti. Not even I know why we're talking about this, but, well, I'm kidding. But nevertheless, I like I would return to you that in the population, Yes, you asked the right questions, but let's look at this as the government that must decide add azempica to water. Here you go the perfect medicine, tap water in add water or not. So, there is such a medicine, It exists, there are no side effects, and it cures all diabetes, it should be added to water, and then the inhabitants of this country will live 3 years longer. And many of them of them who would develop diabetes, this is a significant portion of people would have grown even more quality of life. They are even a state would collect more taxes, right? That there is no such thing as high science there functionality is reduced the effectiveness of the state, I mean I mean, well, on average in the hospital, This medicine has all the properties of drugs that prolong life. Extends life and improves function on average. Yes, you are right. noticed, due to those who have the function reduced due to a specific disease. And by the way, diabetes causes the most reduction in life expectancy compared to other diseases. other diseases still on average still less effect on longevity they have, right? So, yes, of course, these new drugs, new ones Effective diabetes medications, why such a medical revolution because they produce an effect that is not much different from the maximum in the population, yes, for a specific person who fell ill, this difference is colossal, but in the population This is the first time there is a medicine that here at the population level it increases life expectancy, reduces burden age-related diseases, increases productivity metrics productivity and quality of life, yes, with A small effect was measured for the first time. A Another surprising fact, in my opinion, what we saw for the first time, how much is it it's worth it because there in the eighteenth Altman wrote: "Extend your life for In one year, the company will be worth 100 billions." He went from his own personal money, This is his biggest personal investment, gave 180 million dollars to the company that took up the problem of retrabay, increase life expectancy, right? Here is a man I counted and immediately voted somehow I voted there with money, with rubles, to what they believe in, yes. Now you seem to be fair to me you will notice that A, yes, it is kind of important here, that such a medicine appeared. Through for several years now it has been prolonging life on average for several years. And we see, that the company NoVНРIS due to this the cost of medicine has increased by half a trillion dollars. Novovanordis - these are the ones who actually did it azempik. Yeah. They have, well, right at that moment, when the properties of azempic became clear. A What property was discovered? It turned out property that people who accept Ozempic, reduces the risk of diseases, which are not written in leaflet. reduces the risk of stroke and even, according to rumors, now diseases Alzheimer's. That is, they are currently conducting large clinical trial, which is watched by all people, well, not all, and only to the sick, they give azempic and watch What other diseases' risks have decreased? AND for the first time, more than a dozen diseases found to have reduced risks. This has never happened before. In this like positive side effects on a large scale number of things, to others. Yes, in recent years people always tried, but never seen effect. That is, once again, the effect small, but measured for the first time, right? AND I, as an engineer, look at this, Yes, everyone scolds me, there is muscle mass there falls, and zempika, and you try starve yourself, you have muscle mass too will fall. That's how I look at it technique, when the effect is measured, it can be optimized, right? That is, for now the dream that you will make medicine and the risks of disease and death will decrease as long as this there was an unobservable fact, this can be discussed there was speculation. Now this is a fact observed for the first time. This means that we see them in clinical trials and more effective drugs of the future in same clinical design research can be improved. Here this is, in my opinion, conditional That being said, there's already something to work with, right? You You can conditionally take this material into account start to finish twisting, to finish twisting, finish tightening. If someone asks: "And How do you prove it? I say that a drug with an effect greater than Azempik, I can experience it in even less the number of patients than they do made for their drug. Right? So this is how we started from the very beginning began that the opportunity to create the cure for cancer is proven, oh, sorry, These same ones prove that aging is a thing Strange animals, huh? Now the possibility of creating a medicine, which increases the duration human life is still somehow, yes, now Let's not just talk about plume to do, the guys from somehow proved Novonordeska, right? Yes. We had questions about this, but we can now similar clinical designs research to apply to others drugs, future drugs. If them the effect will be more than not very much, Honestly, there is a big effect from Tazempik, then it is obvious that we can do this in in much smaller groups of patients. But This opens the way. If anyone has there will be potential someday a medicine with a great effect, then it can be done in a clinical trial less than what I had Novoordisk. They have money for this. were, therefore, subject to lesser investigation There will be money too. This is, in short, but this decides only the first part. This is prevention diseases. As if cognitively you would you don't slow down aging. Absolutely right. But if you have diabetes, then cognitive functions with Yes. Here, by the way, an important remark is needed, because what you're talking about now, This is indeed true. And people who have there is diabetes, obesity and so on and so forth further, yes, but there is still a huge court people in today's world who, actually, under the influence of society. I I personally know a dozen such young people girls who already weigh 50 kg and just to remove some an additional 2% of fat, they start to inject zmpik and then all their muscle mass goes away mass, teeth, hair, nails and and so on, then this can have an absolutely profound effect in the opposite direction if you do it thoughtlessly, not as prescribed by a doctor, and so on further. This is a very important remark, in fact. And in general I am a doctor of philosophy, and not a medical doctor, and therefore it is better it's better to check everything yourself check with your own doctor. Yes. Regarding what you are talking about, We touch on this several times here changes related to technology. Yes, if you look at the Rubintsevs women and the ideal of beauty now, then the difference is, well, obvious, right? Now, as if women, if in those days there were times when women were as thin as they strive to be now, I think they are would look ugly to ordinary people of that time. With the advent of new drugs that will begin to change human nature. Probably also the idea of ​​beauty, uh, obviously, will change. Well, yes, it's always so interconnected, related things. Yes, actually we are For the first time we see a medicine that has the capital effect is visible, that we even begin to discuss uh how what do the young ladies you look like? No, that's really true because I I know personally, again, there are guys and boys there, which weighed more than 100 there kilograms and literally in a few months got rid of dozens there kilograms of excess weight. physique of a certain type. That is to say, it is straight you begin to understand the Ozempikov look, that burns fat, of all places. Yes, that's interesting. That is, in general phenomenal result. Any technology will change with great effect society. Yes. What really struck me about in all of this. I have many of these I already knew things one way or another, but here's what I didn't know you said it was a patent. ends with this medicine and what If he's standing there now, I don't know, there 500 dollars for this syringe, conditionally, then soon it will cost as much as a pill aspirin, because it has been patented for 20 years it ends and all the producers the world will be able to do this. That's the magic of technological progress, Right? You have 20 years. Here I earned as much as I earned, Yes? Let's also return here to culture. After all, in the very first clinical trials of Ozempic they saw that the weight was decreasing. Well, you don't you might not see what's happening weight loss. Yes. But until 2000, I think, or the fourteenth years obesity was not a disease. Obesity there was a choice. That's why they couldn't register an anti-obesity drug, right? Because that obesity is a choice. Eat less, don't you'll be fat, right? Necklace. And they made it as a cure for diabetes. And it's a question of dosage. only. Yes. As soon as the green light was given, what was possible register for obesity, here we go and started doing this obesity and realized their full potential drug. That is, in fact, he is now registered as a drug for diabetes, and as a drug for obesity. Yes. And it seems to me that anti-aging drugs partly repeat this path. That's exactly it the same. Social stigma. And you you age quickly because you don't do you play sports, eat in McDonald's and so on. There's Brian Johnson says I won't die at all, because I eat right, I do weeks ago. Well, now I'm like Brian. Johnson, not Brian personally, but how how cultural phenomenon, and investors and developers can't conduct clinical trials anti-aging drugs because These are inevitable processes of God's will. On On dogs, of course, it's possible, but on people For some reason it's not possible. And yes, it can be here the same trap will happen that in at some point, when it dawns on people, that the decline in function, well, call it that call it whatever you like, a syndrome, a disease, social problem, it doesn't matter. But in that moment when it will be possible register a drug against this, the same jump can happen as happened to Ozempik and in the sense sales costs and everything else. Listen, how about, for example, the appearance Azempika and here is the proof these properties of his influenced, for example, on you as a company? That Is there anything specific you started doing that changed, what roads did it open and what what's happening to you now? That is, on What stage are you anyway? It seemed to us It's strange that people don't want to do it. anti-aging drug because there the largest market, 100% of people are aging. Well, how could anything conceivable go wrong? so, huh? Well, how about for how many years in industry you understand that everything is not so occurs at all levels. There is no disease, registration is not possible, clinical The research is expensive, no one has anything It didn't work out, larger cohorts are needed. Well, in general, it’s like, well, interest for this reason no. What happened to Azempikom? It's an amazing thing that All pharmaceuticals were divided into two groups. There are pharma companies that have their own version. Azempica. Well, there's Novordisk, there's Lily, for whom the drug is suitable tablet now, who now have a patent life will be full, Yes? Are there any companies there? like Chugai, which they made for Lily this drug. In general, there is a lot a small club of companies that have your own drug of this type, but everyone else the rest of it is not there. And to everyone else It's clear what to do. They need to do it, they do, and they have everything there It's clear. Yes. Now imagine for a second that you the head of a company that has your Ozimbik. Here's what you should do now in this situation? And the proceeds from the sale There are more drugs of this class now, than the total revenue of all models artificial intelligence. Yes. Just a second. Only those are unprofitable, and these They sell, and these people make money. Yes. That is these companies have a huge number there is even more money in connection with this now, than ever. Or Lily is worth almost trillion. You need to look there depending on him. Amazing situation. What should they do now? You imagine yourself one comes to them one of their scientists and says: "Let's do it Great cure for rakat. In 2030 the market size for this drug will be 10 billion dollars. So little, Yes? Well, because In general, so few people have cancer." Yes It's just that everyone has their own form of cancer. He is for for some it solves a specific problem specific. She is big, she is big. revolutionary. Well, well, let's be like this immunotherapy. Well, this is revolutionary. cure for cancer. Immunotherapy there, I think he earns 25 billion dollars. Wow. I thought much more. And this earns a total of almost 100 and is growing. Azempik, Yes. And so you sit like this and here you are People come and say: "Let's do this let's do it." You think, damn, 5 billion in year, next, what should you do? Uh, part people are rushing now, let's go we will make a medicine that can be use azempic, and so that the muscles the mass did not decrease. Well, not to the gym. People want to walk. Well, okay. This is on In my opinion, this is an ecosystem as it is iPhone, do you have these covers, chargers, Yes? That is, well, it’s clear that part of the pharma will be restructured in order to serve people, specific medical problems for thin people the girls' bones weren't broken, in short, well, there will be its own industry, yes. Huge the number of people going there. Well, there too sooner or later something will get saturated, yes. Here is a medicine now that can be apply with azempic and which prevents loss of muscle mass, This is one of the hottest pies out there, which exist, yes? Now life is changing. Well, let's say that such drugs are also through In 5-10 years there will be many of them. A What to do next? So what should we do next? The only drug that commercially it may be more than Ozempik, well, it's not incremental there, and at times, these are anti-aging drugs. End. End of the game. And do you have it now on the current one? How long have you been doing this stage? 10 years Already, yes, are you doing this? Fifteenth year. I have the first article here 10 years, yes, eleven years. Accordingly, at the current moment, Can you tell us what we have at the moment? a moment after so much time there is here something specific, right here tangible progress in achieving? Just I, of course, understand that this is something, well, that is, it is revolutionary, that is, tomorrow this appears, it doesn’t matter, How much does it cost? Will everyone buy it? Yes, everyone. People with money will buy it, then sooner or later it will become exactly the same mass, and everyone will buy it. Well, that's it, but I I don't really understand how realistic it is we are already moving towards this approached. Where is this anyway? some kind of reachable zone or is it somewhere there is a very long way away and after our death Only people will deal with this like this? That would seem like a good question to ask. That there is, uh, the best one, well, probably, the best thing we could have done before so far it's a situation where we, uh, well, here with the help of all the machinery there wetting and so on, we were looking for targets, targets, yes, against which one can develop drugs that could to prolong life, yes, there is a whole lot of work there was made, and we conducted tests, and still do Many people conduct tests this way. We tests were conducted on old mice. That We took mice that were already 100 years old. weeks, they're dying, right? That is, if they are simple, if you just leave them observe, then there for almost 3-4 months everyone will die. And we are this very old animals were given an experimental the drug, well, which is our models predicted what was done for them. We gave them one injection of this drug, and we looked at how much longer they were will survive. So, that is, well, literally increased life expectancy in very old animals. And, well, there to I will take some sign of my professional I must say with pride that this is exactly what it is A company bought this development from us Chuy, which is here this is Chukol, these are Chinese, Yes, they are Japanese. Actually, it's a daughter Rsh company, but it is one of the largest, This is one of the largest pharmaceutical companies. That is, if you, if you ask me: "What that's right, yes, don't speculate, but what is there, yes, that too returning there to the beginning of the conversation, and does anyone really need this, right? Here Japan, with its aging population, is one of the best pharmaceutical companies in Japan. Wait a second, the people who made oral tablet for Elily as azempik, Yes. we found ourselves in a situation where everything else - it's a small thing. Let's go and find people who They extended the life of old mice with something. And concluded a deal with us, licensed us, Now they are developing against this medical drugs, if this thing will someday work on people. That is, figuratively speaking, you are with yours with this technological thing predicted, conducted a test on mice, this confirmed, right? So you extended it how important is this for mice? Yes? One injection lasts more than a month. That is to say, it is significant, Well, it's noticeable, yes, that is, it's noticeable extended, so to speak, life and came a large pharmaceutical company bought it and continued to do so they will try to make something out of it medicines. And these people are better, well, that is they make the best medicine in their class. That is, if this thing works. in people, yes, it remains to prove a trifle, Yes? Yes. The easiest part is left, Yes. But how if this thing works in people, they will do it faster than we do. Yes. Understand? That is, for us, as it were, for For a small company this is generally ideal the way, because not only is everything necessary You still have to predict correctly, Well, I understand there are hundreds of millions of dollars there. did it quickly, yes, even not always like If only money could conquer evil, yes, right here You have to be able to. It's not just a question, How much money does this cost, and do you need it? have a million skills and competencies there, as if people who are countries in general, who know how to make modern ones there are fewer medical drugs than countries, that launch rockets into space. That This is one of the most difficult ones in general. things that people just do. We do these extremely important things, but only a small part of this huge one process, right? That is to say, yes, of course, if you do it at the very beginning not from what is needed, then how would you I didn't do all the following stages perfectly in clinical trials, it works there won't be. In this sense, we decide some narrow part. We are using this this modeling of a huge number medical data and so on, like It seems we are increasing, increasing significantly the chances that what we find is will work in people too, because We found this in people, right? That's all all the following stages must be completed anyway quickly and correctly. And so for us, well, for now, with our size and so on, It seems to me that this form coexistence where we make our part, and the next part does pharmaceutical company, this is the fastest way check that what we found is It really works in people. Yes. And do I understand correctly that you have the result of such a deal is that some share in the patent and in the potential future medicine, right? That is, such transactions are happening, Yes? This, in fact, allows us to be companies, right? We are not a service company. services. Yes, yes, I understand what you have there are shares, it is clear that they take over the entire operational part in this case, yeah, and most of it, well, a significant portion of income, but in the world, where everything is good there, Well, it's clear that these could be billions of dollars, even having there conditionally, Well, I can't even name the numbers. scary. It is a binary event if there everything is fine, everything is material there, This is very interesting. Here, let's say Let's take a specific scenario, speaking of which. Here You succeeded on mice, but the probability is that this will happen medicine, what is it like there 1:100 or what kind of statistics statistics one: where for now, yes. But as if our models worked as best we could verify them uh in the past, yes, which always raises questions, yes, any person. But as it seems, It's possible there's one in four. One to four. Interesting. Well, that is, in you still need three more to achieve the ideal picture of the world such assemblies, and then everything will work out. Yes. Yes. Well, we have models, we have models. big ones, yes. The models include predictions. Some pharmaceuticals companies are only interested in ordinary ones diseases. In the meantime, companies that I would be interested in the most radical versions And it is the decrease in functional opportunities, so far as medical problems for pharma, it's still too early. Here we are We predict. Well, it's kind of entrepreneurial risk or maybe It may be an illusion, or it may be justified hopes, they consist in the fact that as only as soon as a larger quantity companies will move into the profit zone large tens of billions of dollars or $100 billion for the drug, this at the moment they just, well, like, logic business and progress will force them to seek even more medicine. And like this only medicine can be a medicine, which significantly changes life expectancy. And to this at the moment our company, well, and our the competitor, of course, is also into this at this point we want to approach the development, which has been tested on animals. Well, although would be the same as we did for the first one transactions. That is, we think that there are 3-5 years, during which the pharma will suffer and try to rebuild around these super-developing drugs. Yes. And we think that, well, even that deal, which we have done already shows that Pharmaceuticals are interested in aging, Right? so far more like this as if in in a more calm manner. We think through In 3-5 years, one of the AA giants will want to make a real drug against aging and will start looking for anyone. Interesting. You know, it's like that now what is essentially happening with Bigtech and with AI, Yes? That is, to say, take there all Google Alphabet, Tammea, Oracle and and so on. They've been there for the last few decades. earned hundreds of billions there dollars and just conditionally earned money. It's clear that they invested, but their volume of investment was insignificant compared to that How much did they earn? And now, when they see what's happening with AI, they understand that they have some kind of the plan either failed or disappeared. Either we invest all in, and we're ready to burn all our profit there for several years, and we have a chance to win, or we have a chance lose everything. Yes, because otherwise the anthropologist will become Google and that's all there is to it. All. That is, this is the same gamechanger, this is exactly about that as soon as there is a precedent like this pharmaceutical companies will either invest or we will invest everything, or from a pharmaceutical company. Here it is again, if what I'm talking about is this modeling, artificial intelligence for drug development, if this is the case It really works, I'm careful about that. I'm saying this because I'm still in the clinic Not everything will work out, we can speculate as much as we want. Well, I can see very clearly that There are pharmaceutical companies, well, let's call it that Panic is probably not an option, but they have there really is an interesting state, when they realize that tomorrow the world may change because we see that Google is interested in the development drugs, the anthropologist has an interest in drug development, but a venture capital machine and many companies work financed, which use, they are trying to use artificial intelligence for drug development. If some of them will succeed and they won't they will have time to buy, this may put under threat model. Yes. pharmaceutical company. I know that some of them are in denial, considering that no, these so-called mathematicians, they don't even realize how much everything is It's complicated and it will never work. I know that there are forms of companies where The management takes this position. I I also know that there are forms of company, who are, well, in a panic, well, in a panic, those who buy, well, from those a lot of money, which is exactly this they use Google's technology and they buy you up and suffocate you in their arms. Yes, no, it's not clear. It is clear that they are different strategies. Let's get back to history. Actually, the appearance of something, some kind of namely a medical drug. Means, Look, you made this thing, the pharmaceutical company came, bought it and then, of course, research and so on, and so on, and so on. But for me I liked the whole story, yes, through How many years will it take for the drug to appear? extending life by 200 years, yeah, like 10 years of drug development plus 200 years experiment, like 210 years. And that's what it's about. That is, look, when you did this thing and there, well, conditionally, it works on mice, which prolongs life for a month, but within the framework that mice live there for how long, 24 months on average, yes, that's enough a lot, there are 5%. One way or another for in order to receive confirmation in within the framework of clinical trials, this it takes a huge amount of time. Or me Is there something I don't understand here? Well, first of all, it's the same as with Zempikom to find out what he works against other diseases. You You either need one or you need 10. man and 200 years, Yes, or you need, say, a million a person in whom a huge amount people will die within one year. And you in a few years on a very large cohort you can test an anti-aging drug. Eat the cohort is very large, you can do it This is in a short time, right? That there is this Why? I don't understand. You can't do it. see the timings, don't change nine Nine women will not give birth to a child in a month. No, well, look, imagine that I will now propose a design-clinical research that is real It's really possible to do it. And we take any person, and who the first age of dependence arose diseases, well, any of them from the list ten. Here we give him what he is entitled to. give this disease, well, so that everything It was ethical and correct, yes. And also We give our medicine on top and we wait for him to have the next one age-dependent disease. Usually This happens after several years. Well there, mm, a disorder of fat metabolism, the pressure rises, and so on. We're just recording. We have it appearing table. Here we have a moment in time zero when the first one arose and now let's see when the second one arose list. We take a very large group, well, so that there would be many such events. AND the distance between these events several years. And in reat for a maximum of 5 for years you get huge statistics that here you have a huge group, to the group where you didn't give your drug or gave a pacifier, the following the disease occurs there after 3 years average. Yes. And if the group is very large, you even You don't have to wait for that. There will be the unlucky ones who will have it earlier, and you will already see everything, right? That is, in a huge carpet you will see this even earlier You won't see it in a year, but you'll see it in two, there You will definitely see it in 5 years. And if you give drug, you have the following disease it happens, well, aging slows down, and the next disease does not occur through there are 4 years, and in 10 years, then you are for in a few years you will see a large cohort, that in the cohort on the drug there is a serious deficit age-related diseases. I get it, right? That means you don't need sleep. actually 200 years. Large quantity turns into quality. No, there, well, to see everything exactly, yes, Certainly. No, well, I understand, I mean that it is maybe there's already some kind of confirmation that it works. Actually, that's how they did it with Ozempikom. They just took it and started giving it to people, which have a medical indication, they They started giving Azempic. Usually they looked, when something related to this happens cardiovascular diseases, and decided to look at all the others. AND right in the same study from the fact that The group is big, well, there's a lot of money earns a lot, the company is rich, the patent expires, patent life we need to expand and look for new indications. Yes. Well, in that sense capitalism forces do big research, and you're in it you see amazing things. Let's discuss one more thing. And I heard you have such an idea that in general already today thanks again technologies and what we can collect a large number of parameters and data about man, we are on the basis of some We can calculate metrics from the current one conditions, conditionally, there to take you, me, from our current state our potential maximum life expectancy. A, accordingly, how does it work at all? and how accurately can we do this today? do? Oh, well look, It's clear that this VOP is for you shows conditionally, but, Well, it's not even a question of Whoop, right? Here the first person to ever use it mathematics for aging, it was This is Benjamin Goms. He worked for Rothschild, by the way, is now very fast We can agree on something. He worked for him in an insurance company and considered the risks. Then people became a little bit live longer. And it had to be done somehow understand, he was busy with all sorts of mathematics. He wrote a work in 1827 in which wrote that human mortality it is designed as if there is progressive process, well, which is directly ticks like a clock in one direction and happening. Here, in fact, is the progressive part - This is a decrease in function. And the case, well, as we know, no matter what a person is healthy lifestyle, cancer is possible at any age. That's right, of course, a healthy lifestyle reduces the possibility of cancer, but unfortunately we we see a lot of examples when it’s very, like, physically fit non-smokers there, at 30 and 40 years old, they receive early retirement Cancer. That is, you shouldn't underestimate it. an accident, right? Chance plays a colossal role role. This, by the way, is generally an argument for like healthy lifestyle enthusiasts, biohackers, and so on, Yes. Well, uh, that's pretty much the idea. measuring large amounts of data and predictions using biological age, it's so interesting psychological illusion of control. That Do you feel like if you do something? I measured it and you know what you get from it easier. Unfortunately, the role of chance colossal, yes, when you look at identical twins who were raised in the same family, which the same genes, exactly the same identical genes. They still have a spread in terms of life expectancy there is about 15 years. Well, by the way, I didn't know. Yeah, well they don't die on the same day, yeah. From That's understandable. It is clear that the way of life there's something else going on with society too, Yes. Therefore, in cases, I just immediately, to prevent questions, cases play a colossal role. none the number of dimensions of something, whatever there was, a significant part, but chance, related to our medical history, they don't cancel it in any way. Now here is the meaning of that the work we wrote, its role is that even many people in the medical profession is not divided decline in function and aging. Well, sort of everyone is interested in the second date monument, which consists of, uh, declining health and illness, killing people are sick, not aging. We in fact, with the help of this article answered the question, what will happen if there will be no illness at all? What is a man? Will it live forever? It turned out that No. Even people who don't have any at all diseases, they will still die there at 120-150 years. It’s impossible to calculate more precisely, but the main thing is that this is a deadline. Will my brain die or something? Well, one of the most important functions, I don't I know people who practice healthy lifestyle, well, Many devices also have this device. shows VO2 Max, right? Vo Max is the actual amount of oxygen that you can burn at the peak. VO2 Max, also like cognitive function, it declines aged 1%. Ah, well, that's it, you just stop you won't be able to burn. Do you have a certain level, you have a certain amount of 2 max, which you don't need to go to the fifth floor run in. Yes. As you get older you reach this point, there is no way to go up to the fifth floor anymore can. Well, and then you continue. how much is needed for sex, how much you need for running, and how much is needed to breathe at night. M. Ah, well, that's all. Well, you're just finished. end of the game. Yes. All. That is It seems like everything is very simple. And because of that, that's 2 max, and you, well, what It's called, well, fluid intelligence, well, as if flexible intelligence, decreases smoothly also, yes, that is, a person can speak, and it is very clearly visible, I I think this is possible in many families observe when a parent can children help the mathematician solve the problem, but not the grandchildren. Well, that's clear. And they begin to tell the story about that mathematics has gone wrong. Nothing similar. mathematics in those days, Yes, in those days mathematics was like that, which is not there now. Now the teachers They complain about the opposite, yes. That's exactly it your ability. Well, that is to say, at the same time we we are not talking about any dementia or neurodegeneration, we're talking about people, which in the everyday sense, well, absolutely they are capable and can do a lot of things there to teach a person in the everyday sense, yes. But when you look at the control tests there the fourth, fifth task, these people already they can't decide, and their children come and They tell their children how to solve two latest tasks. That's exactly it functional decline. And this is very a lot of people are looking at it like, "Well, it's going down and is decreasing." And so, as if that partly the contribution that we make to science, we we show that this is universal a process that also affects the ability burn oxygen, and on cognitive functions, and the state of the immune system systems that lead to you you reach the point, even if you have If there are diseases, then it is even earlier is happening. But we are talking about now ideal scenario. Yes. That is to say, like this called the healthy aging trajectory there is a point where you are missing metabolic capacity for that, just to breathe. And, actually, the point of this article was that, Guys, if you don't go with this if you fight the process, then nothing the number of medical technologies is not will lead to an improvement in the quality of life. AND We see this, by the way. If you look over the past 300 years, data on mortality, there are countries that are few they bombed, yes, where are the churches, where they wrote down who was born when, when did he get married when he died, yes, he did huge, well, records for huge number of people. Well, northern Scandinavian, yes, mostly we can see very clearly that the average life expectancy is increasing in people over the past 300 years. Well, even if remove infant mortality there We will remove mortality from nature anyway we see that the average duration life is growing, but the maximum life expectancy is not increasing people, because there is not even request to reduce functionality. I understood, yes, about something. Well, that's exactly it about the same thing, yes, that conditional illnesses We treat diseases, but there is no aging. Well then coming back wait, to my to the original question. On what basis? metrics today? This V2 Max is like us Can we count or is there something else? Yes, there are more. Well, for now we're showing, that all these metrics are connected, but there are there is such an amazing thing, and which can't be measured, but can be obtained data, well, it's not humane to measure, but data can be obtained. And we're going to some country where it is very expensive hospital, where to be in the hospital very expensive. Well, it's clear to us people People don't just end up in the hospital. And we look at how many people are there in the hospital after an injury and surgery depending on age. Yes. And the older you are, the longer you you are in the hospital. You remember that, well, probably, in at school, if you get sick, there's a month or two there weeks, you don't have to go to physical education. It's not possible, but it's necessary, yes, because Soviet medicine knew that a young organism has time recovery, well, the longest the process after an illness is in order months. Well, so that nothing happens, people didn't go to physical education. As is known, young man, well, sort of within the framework our national code, yes, young a person can start celebrating in Friday, come to work on Monday and pretend that it works. Right. Pensioner, his boss also wants begin go out on Friday, but he can't Monday is work, right? Time recovery A hangover is an excellent biomarker of age. You you can't drink as much as you drank in 20 years. Well, I don't know, maybe someone can, but this is a medical fact. People can't as much as they could afford allow at 20 years old. People 50-60 can't. Well, for health reasons. That is time recovery is supersensitive biomarker human condition. And that's because of that, Thank you very much for what we managed to do. to the team of the company IVitro, and to receive access to medical data of Muscovites, where we were able to see how much recovery is happening quickly, well, here is the equilibrium state in people. We saw that this function is very strong depends on age and then they also found out separately that It is associated with being in a hospital. That is, in essence, observing the dynamics of with a blood test, you can predict how a person will recover quickly after some kind of serious medical states. And now in Singapore, uh Singaporeans want to take it straight to the point weapons, because it's big the problem is when a person is in the hospital hits. How dangerous is he, how much is he heavy, not entirely clear. They are all in The first moment is difficult. And Singapore now studies this kind of biometrics because as soon as a person gets to the hospital, All possible sensors are hung on it. AND Here is one of the tasks that is facing us - this is try to count by these markers, estimate future recovery time so as not to let go ahead of time, well, to let those go ahead of time, whoever is possible, don't let go of the one whom It's not possible, right? So, we came up with this such a dynamic biomarker, well, and linked it to the maximum life expectancy. And, ah, well, how, You probably understand, it's very cool biomarker. There is no need for a second one here. wait for the date on the monument. Such the item can be measured quickly. Cool. And in your opinion, that's all These newfangled devices, like vpauras and so on, which track the state, but in general they help in some way we can influence something and somehow prolong it your life or was it more of an entertainment? I I just heard a lot from you enough things that like well that's it This is biohacking with a full impact. and so on, there is nothing global about this meaning because how you how much influence, it's actually insignificant not much, yes. Here it is existing, yes, unfortunately, with This is not enough with existing technologies. If, if I was asked what I would look at one marker, yes, again, Here is the factor of chance, it doesn’t cancel anything. I would watch it and highly recommend it to everyone. look at this VO2 Max, many people devices that have heart rate monitoring some, they are trying to evaluate it. Yes. Yes, of course, his assessment, any doctor there, which measures, there, you know, there is this a test where they put a mask on you, there somewhere, Yes, this is, of course, the ideal test. Me I signed up to go. Me me A friend told me about this story. I I think so, damn, it's even interesting pass. Here they are, the first one watch. Well, you just need this test. get confused, pass. But if If you have a device, it's most likely measures it incorrectly, but on its dynamics, well, on the same thing You can watch on the same device. Here I am I told you that aging is 1% in a year, right? How to live longer? This means, that accumulated in youth. This is the most good advice? According to the healthy lifestyle, yes, unfortunately, it is not allowed apply retrospectively. The best one advice, maybe he can give it to the kids himself think about it. If aging is a 1% reduction in what Want, Question: where are you reducing from? Yes. The only thing you can do - this is gain altitude. Here's to any conceivable in a way, so to speak, there, Well, until about 40 years old, until I get it the first serious illness there some, 40-50 years old, usually already something it starts there, fat metabolic disease, people start to get upset and so on further. Gain as much altitude as possible. People who have been there for many years at the university somewhere else, yes, they later, Well, they get it statistically significantly later dementia, for example. This is a very simple situation. The more you have you functionality in in youth, may you have everything from now on like others. Well, it's no secret that it's big some people who go to the gym, Well, of course, we think, well, few of us We are thinking about the second date on the monument. We think about how to look good. AND about that, many of us, many of us this sticks in. We are also good at ourselves we feel it, right? We don't do this for life expectancy. Well, rather yes, We do it because it's cool. Well, because, well, it's, well, it's modern there is a concept there about beauty, about care behind itself and so on implies that This should be done sooner rather than later. One of the most big effects that can be achieved - this is to gain muscles, brains and functional endurance, while the body is still growing somehow, where are you you can gain this potential further it will only get worse. Yes. Loss can occur as a result of chronic conditions. It is difficult to increase the number of diseases. Listen, from this point of view there are several big aspects there such basic ones that influence us. This is, of course, nutrition, which, I think, is becoming more and more common today more people think and understand that like, that this is such an important thing, yes. The second is the environment in which we live. And from the point of view, I mean ecology and so on, someone lives in the cold, some people live in the heat, some people live in the in the cold, and in the heat, or there, I don’t know, or somewhere else. And the third thing that To be honest, I was amazed, I was also I heard you when you were telling me this about the fact that there are different ones there research on what sport prolongs most of all life, like there's tennis on first place for almost 9 years, and there you brought up times that actually there is quite a big phenomenon of that, not that sport is very effective, and that playing in Tennis is a certain social social circle. And the people who play in tennis, they are there in a certain condition social status is found. And that social status actually plays a role enormous significance in duration life. Well, come on, at least though Let's touch on these three in broad strokes things. You can start with any one, which It's convenient for you because I'm sure you are in their research one way or another should understand all this and affect and at least have a date, on which to rely on, Yes. Well, actually, it's very interesting. Always look at this date. Well, look, I think smoking can be stopped at some point to devote, Yes? Well, it's not exactly a base, yes, not at all. we can omit the base, like, Yes. Means, my love, forgive me for interrupting, My favorite video on YouTube is about smoking. This is some kind of international conference of cardiologists. And the guy with the camera seems to suit everyone cardiologist and asks one question: like what, like, is the worst thing that can happen to do in life in order to live less? And there are like 100 doctors in a row called smoking. This is very funny. Yes. This, by the way, also says a little about how difficult aging is do something. We are currently discussing the result is negative, yes, how to reduce it long life. There are different estimates, but it is closer to six years. Smoking. Smoking. Well, lifelong smoking is 6 years. A little bit, uh, a little bit less It is a well-known fact that if you quit smoking, then most of the negative the effect quickly disappears, leaves in the sense, Yes? That is, you can smoke, quit life about as many times as you Do you want to, yes, until the first chronic diseases. No, there is a cumulative effect, but it much less. That is, the effect, well, it is It's not like it's fashionable to do that to tell, but in the data it is very clearly visible. Well, Milan, everyone understands about smoking, Right? As I said, early diabetes is minus 6 years of life. That is, the early effect Diabetes is comparable to smoking, right? Well, that is, as we have already explained today, Not everyone has early diabetes, so in On average, the effect across the hospital is closer to three. years than by six years. But diabetes - this is a transmission and a sedentary image life. Well, and genetics, a combination of everything these factors, right? Well, It's hard to change genetics. Correct The parents need to be removed. This is advice universal. Here. Thank you. Well, yes, accordingly, yes, about the status now separately let's talk because of social status is also inherited, as is known. Yes, it is as we know, as it turned out along with connections that are not neural, yes, which which are also important. So the next meal, yes, about how nutrition should be it's arranged as if there were a contradiction much more. Some people believe that Some people know when to eat People think they know what to eat. Yes, no advice prolongs life. There is more than just an effect, more than just advice. less. Yes. That is, even those people who, for example, they feed within a limited some kind of window, yes, it's 16 by 8 and so on furthermore, there are different diets interval interval, yes, there is no one yet evidence that the effect of these diets associated with intervality. For now this Just eat three times less. Well, not in three, there you sleep much less most part of this time. You eat there the result is 20-30% less. And this exactly, well, how exactly, nothing in this world not exactly. And apparently that's true prevents chronic diseases. AND there is no evidence yet that this is associated with functional decline, Yes. But nevertheless have chronic illnesses are worse than not having them. That's why food restrictions are extremely good, Yes. Konstantin was visiting me. Severinov, genetics. He told how once at the level of cells, let's say so what's going on and why is it conditional constant loading of all the food, it's like leads to cells degenerating more often, You have a certain limit. This is when you are on millions of cells, blah-blah-blah-blah-blah-blah, at a distance years. We can discuss evolutionary reasons why this happens. But I I think, on the other hand, there is nothing here there is no novelty, and it’s probably better, well, Someone else may have already written on this topic tell. Yeah. The role of muscles. Well, if you look at the composition on the mood, yes, the shape of the body structure, that is, in fact, we have a lot there different organs that do something are doing. There are two - muscle and fat, who communicate with each other and determine the shape of the body together. what's simple muscle mass volume, well, from a point of view in terms of impact on health, volume muscle mass is very useful intervention, yes, which you yourself you can do it. She is good, among other reasons, that in the future it will decrease and in at some point you don't want to fall off stairs. That is muscle mass, gained in youth will help you. But what? the most important thing is that energetically, metabolically muscle mass and fat act in antiphase to each other. Well, if we collect into a sum as if huge the number of healthy tips, then on average this will be eating less, more protein and while not stopping training or even intensify the training, which improves muscle mass gain metabolic health in humans, Well, within some reasonable limits. And here is a question about sports. And there is is there some downside? Here I am very I often hear a story about something like that I don't do anything there, but in fact you do sports there all day long, there is nothing good. look there professional athletes. But I have I always have this argument here that in There is another in professional sports problem. There is not so much quantity there loads, how much excess there is, which often leads to large injuries. And it is precisely these things that lead to problems. But relatively speaking, here we have I have a close friend there a friend who studies there powerlifting, lifting weights, and I I often tell him: "Listen, you are like that You lift heavy weights, like hellish ones there are 300 kg." He says: "Well, if look at the statistics, then people, who are involved in powerlifting, much less back problems than people who have a sedentary lifestyle a way of life, so to speak. And here on there on In your opinion, are there any ways to which this is influences whether there is any excess in this? Again, I'm not that kind of doctor. philosophy, we need to talk, yes, with the right people. But there is no need for that here, no. no studies that say that big weights or big ones there distances on the treadmill, and, much better than the small ones. That is, if you look at what is called dose dependence, then it is easy to see that, for example, regular walking is not much, well, worse, but not much worse than regular running. Угиедирегулайьд to vos mas not sweat, so to speak, such, yes, crooked, not the same, but now, like, like, the second one the point is that I too, here we are discussed cultural changes. Everything that We know about sports, unfortunately, it's about those who need to be quickly made, soldier or athlete. That is, the whole thing would be the main body of sports medicine - this is about young healthy people, from which need to be done as quickly as possible quickly useful for society in different ways meanings of citizens. And modern sports medicine is very little understanding of what needs to be done in in terms of sports at 40, 50, 60 and beyond. Well, just because there is no such problem. never happened. Pensioners never played sports. The Chinese and their people know something about this. there are gymnastics and so on. But so, so that right here we have a huge one amount of data to directly know exactly what to do. This is not the case. We have Well, there is definitely a problem, for example, that people who run a lot, well, It's hard for a man, the V2 Max falls there As you get older, it's hard for you to admit, that you ran 5 km there in some time, and now you're 50 years old and you're running after another time. People continue to rape themselves run. At this moment people for example, the inflammation marker increases in the blood, because you have heart there is simply damage, direct damage. heart muscles, that is, somehow overload, overload, yes, because how is it the will of the will there, if I'm exhausted, yes, but I got carried away, yes, and a lot of people are into it, and there cardiomyocytes, like neurons, they are poorly are being restored. That is, and many People underestimate that the meaning maintaining physical fitness at an older age it's not about reproducing records youth. This is impossible. Interest per year you lost, like, confess, right? And the attempt is behind them catching up can lead to damage when you, when your body doesn't allow it you have to run at the speed he gives signal. That is, people are trying there colossal weights, for example, to do, right? That is, well, even people who are engaged in muscle growth, they know that light weights and high repetitions are not much worse than the very large weights there and few repetitions. Well, there are whole holis on this topic is being discussed, but as if for for twenty-year-olds it's one situation, but for fifty-year-olds are different. That is It is very important to have a reserve and it is very important don't kill yourself. Yes. Because, well, as soon as the first one is trauma, well, a real one, there at 50-60 years old, the person will stop doing it altogether. Yes, yes, yes, yes, fact. Let's talk about the third one. We'll talk about the social part, yes, because she really does me I am very interested in it and I want to, so that you open it. That is, there is something like some studies that say, that your circle, your society influences the duration of your life. Just Look, I'll clarify my question. I have there was always a perception of what if a person of a certain status, then means that he has a certain amount of money, so he just can afford better quality medicine, pharmacology and so on. And there, if you look, for example, at that, what's happening in the valley, the same Til, which you periodically bring there For example, he told me about it himself, I remember In Dzherogan's podcast, what is everyone there? testosterone day, there's something else and so on further. He's all drugged up there on the farm, and so he looks like he's great. There Bezs, who over the last couple of years transformed, also clearly not on vitamins, as if, as they say. Well, here's what I have there was such a connection. Well, I usually give a different example. Sir Winston Churchill is a man who I started drinking very strong drinks. Counterarguments, don't believe me. I listened, You say he started with whiskey, I was finishing my cigar, but I I read, for example, different things about Churchill there literature, and they say that it is great delusion that he really has there was an image of a man who was there with with a cigar in his mouth, but in reality he drank very little. And what is this image? sagging, but it is not believable, even in all photographs He is pictured with a glass and a cigar. Not I know how right this is I won't be able to find out. Here it is again There are a lot of bad jokes about surveys. measurements. WHO I just, I just read it not so long ago and You were just giving examples and I triggered. Yes, well, that's why I can say it cautiously. about what is more or less visible there from the data. Yes, I like to bring this example, that our homeland is a lot inhumane social experiments. Here is one of them that happened in the nineties. years when it is known that there consumption of strong drinks and mortality in men, well, during economic reforms on the pants very has grown a lot. Yes. That is, uh, in women to a lesser degree, to a much lesser extent than in men, somehow it turns out that men are arranged when there is a threat to them social status, then it increases sharply risk, including heart disease diseases. Well, how do people imitate this? there where Where is there alcohol nearby and everything? rest. And also poor health more. How would people spend a lot interesting research, which later reproduced in other countries. Now I'll tell you where there are similar examples too there were, not such terrible, but there were. A, they conducted a study where they compared mortality and morbidity in single-industry towns, where there was one, there, like we were accepted to the system of formation enterprise. All these cities were divided into two groups where this enterprise it was covered as soon as the Soviet The union is over, and where is this enterprise? there she revolutionized something and it's been there for a long time, Well, we didn't lose our jobs right away. And it turned out that at that moment, well, and people it was often normal, well, some normal work, some social status. The working man in There was no Soviet Union. Somehow it is declared totally. Here. And how only such a situation happened in cities where this happened instant loss of job, abruptly cardiovascular mortality has increased diseases, even after adjusting for alcohol and divorce. Yes. There were similar stories in England, where, for example, the national post office, which there was always a royal one there, state and so on, which was a sinecure for a huge number of people on a dusty, but at the same time some kind of quite a prestigious job, in some At that moment it was privatized. And exactly the same model emerges there, that men have increased risks diseases, well, are decreasing long life. Well, like this A biological joke on this topic sounds in the following way, what else Strina Darwin noticed that there is no competition between some distant species, between me and the fly. Well, practically, well, a person does not compete with anyone at all nature. But there is no fly between me and the fly there is not a single common topic between us between them, between me and them there was natural selection. At high adapted to ecological systems animals like humans are the only ones the selection that occurs is social. That is, natural selection occurs in not with someone, but within ourselves, right? There Our first marriage is free, and the second one is free too. marriage, conditionally only for those people who socially vertically mobile there and so further, right? That is, even before recently, when people had a lot of children, and what happened was, well, sort of there was a stratification of society. Easily can be seen from church records, for example, that only every third man in in medieval Europe, he left the child, a, which lived to puberty. Almost all women left at least one such child and only each third man. What does it mean? This means that, well, sort of aquatic reproduction in humans is arranged in such a way in such a way that selection occurs. Not all men. Well, that is to say, for this it was necessary to be somebody, there, have a home, have some work. Right? Women they chose men in the Middle Ages, well, where there are records, it is the end of the beginning new time, where there are records, not all men left offspring, well, surviving to this it seems like this now automatically, yes, we live in a world where there are no threats and so on, but in those there were times when I had to make something of myself introduce. Also in the sense that people didn't have children simply put, you know? Well, with these people, not with all people had children. Well, naturally, a set, so that women choose those who have What kind of women were there in relative deficit due to the fact that biological reasons. That's why almost every woman left there were a huge number of children, women a much larger number of women left behind more children than men. Here. That there was a natural recruitment taking place inside us. And that is why the threat social status is stressful. Yes, actually it's for big ones the number of animals this happens. There There seem to be a lot of strategies like stress out those who hatch after you and so on. That is, there is a huge the number of mechanisms in nature that they force you to evaluate, yes, they control and assess the risks associated with the environment. So, in humans, even in primates blood composition, the ratio there testosterone and cortisol depend on social hierarchy of the pack. That is you You can take a pack of monkeys and do the same to them. blood test, well, it's not 100% correlation, but with significant correlation, determine who they have The main one, just stupidly based on a blood test. But when there is a threat to social the status of a person at this moment severe stress arises, which sufficient if it becomes chronic, in order to increase the risks of disease and reduce life expectancy. You know, I even have such an example. life, there was a rather difficult period live there in 1919-20. AND very interesting. I, of course, I didn't check my blood composition before and after after and so on, but it is visible even on photography level. You are looking photographs there, conditionally, there, I don’t know, before and after, and you see how it changes a very strong person. I look at myself, I think, "Oh my God, you can see that something was wrong inside." And this very clearly. Well, it's still the same, what's outside is like a reflection of that, what's inside you. What's surprising is that it's not the status itself, and a threat to status. Yes, yes, yes. Threat. Threat. And the threat is all this is what you I came up with it myself. Well, in fact, in fact it's an amazing thing, yes, it's bad my head doesn't give anything else any peace, yes, that is to say, so to speak, people who are more capable of reflection and some kind of cold-blooded reaction in this in a sense, they are more adapted than those people, who takes everything to heart. Well, yes, yes, yes. Here it is, you know, there is skill on the one hand, on the other sides too, I think, part part genetics. I think it's genetics very very strong genetics. Listen, I'm interested. By the way, there is one Another example. I think it's in Italy or somewhere, I don't remember, in some town they conducted research there, which, conditionally saying that married men live longer, than those who are not married. This is also about some kind of social component, apparently, Yes? some very complicated thing, too once, because it is largely a self-invented thing to some extent, yes, a threat social status, but in modern society without any food at all, well, so that it really threatened your life, no it's not that easy to find yourself in a situation like this, Where threats to your social status directly really threatens your life, right? This is not the situation there was not in the Middle Ages, when there you had to commit hara-kiri or something else like that, right? Although somewhere These are probably some related things. It's amazing how much it depends, It seems to be from a person's ability, well, treat these situations. There is a lot animals that have a long Life depends on social status. I I won't even mention the insects we're there We don't discuss exotic things, but it is known that All these ants are queens, all these bees are queens often live much longer. Eat amazing examples that when the uterus dies, some of them are social animals, one of the young females becomes a queen. And at that moment it's just physiological transformation. This animal is transformed from short-lived to long-lived in the same genome, actually under some kind of social signal, right? Well, that is, it’s social there, food and and so on. That is, this is about the question of plasticity, life expectancy in some evolutionary ones according to evolutionary ones reasons, right? There are examples of other African moles, which age normally, unlike the naked mole we talked about, but those who have them there are social. Well, and naked moles, and these, they are all social. They have It's a very interesting society. U the boys run outside and get I'm going, they're killing them there. Uh and the girls eat the spoils and where the girls live together. And they have it like that too the same as with ants. But insects are social and these Animals' lives are arranged in such a way that you have dilemma, you can either give birth yourself, or help mom raise children. Accordingly, these animals have the dominant female is so terrorizes all the other girls, what do they have Dominated by Yes. Yes, they are losing it libido in girls, and they give it to her instead help to bear her offspring. Well, because they share half of their genes, so, well, evolution is this, well, this is You can read about it in books, normal evolutionary strategy. You either you give birth yourself or you help your family to the closest relatives. In people It is generally accepted that grandmothers help daughters, that's why grandmothers have menopause, right? That is, grandmothers switch off and help to daughters. And those animals, on the contrary, have a mother terrorizes his daughters, and his daughters help him to mom. Yeah, well, it's either this way or that, It turned out the way we chose. But what? It's surprising that these ones breeders, those who reproduce, they live longer even in the laboratory. But you You can get these breeders and appoint them following. There you have a student who can do something like protect them for a few days so that everyone The rest realized that these were new Jacks. Yes. Now we've gotten used to it. And these breeders, they even change physiologically, they are in the sizes increase, for example. Here. V at this moment and begin to live longer. This This is exactly the situation where social status directly affects life expectancy. Absolutely amazing. Here. Well, of course, as I already said, that many manifestations of aging universal, but the methods to which Animals come to this, they are different. Therefore, it cannot be said that they are exactly the same the very mechanisms that influence them long lives will affect long life with us. But here it is a situation where there is a threat to social status affects longevity boys, in people, it's like established fact. And, well, that's one of as if there were very interesting topics in general get it. Why is this happening? Because what to eat less, how not to smoke, how we are already a person who plays sports we know. Yes. And if you pay attention, science is coming along the path of reproducing these effects drugs, right? Instead of less Yes, there is Azempik, instead of more train the first drugs are now being used are tested, which build you up muscle mass. They will be applied. That is, as soon as we understand mechanism of how duration changes life due to some change in lifestyle life, and in 10 years the drug will arrive, which you can do all the same the same thing I did before, take a pill and get there, well, approximately, I'm not saying exactly, well, about the same effect. How life expectancy is regulated in response to social stress, until the end It's unclear. And very soon, well, I kind of I predict that mimetics will appear soon social status, drugs that will be filmed. As long as people do this, we know, due to alcohol and prohibited substances drugs. That is, people, yes, people are being treated. prohibited, not prohibited drugs, but either approved or disapproved, let's say. I'll probably give you one example, how close he is to me because we are in these The studies involved that if you take everything that is sold in the pharmacy, Here are all the pills that are available and give them them, well, worms, which are only 20 days old they live, it's easy to experiment on them, it will turn out that out of 1200 drugs, which can be bought at the pharmacy, 100 prolong the life of worms. I don't do anything I'm talking about people but by the way, it's cool that there are more prolongs life rather than shortens it. That is How is the pharmacy on average useful for health. So now even if you eat everything in a row, yes. If you just compress everything in a row, then on average it is useful for health. Yeah, that's a pretty cool fact. But if you look at these 100 drugs that prolong the life of worms life, then more than a third of them are antidepressant and anti-disease drugs heads. Mm. Yes, is this mental? That is it pieces a worm is 900 cells in total, of which 375 neurons. I joke that this is the smartest one stomach. It even affects him, right? Put it how it affects. Well, because he has a ratio brain size and body size are one of the largest in nature. And it turns out that the worm you If you treat him with antidepressants, he lives much longer. longer. And this is a very cool fact, who tells you that the soul health is a very strong modifier life expectancy, which absolutely uneducated. You we see that people who suffer from severe mental diseases like schizophrenia, for example, these people definitely live they know They even have aging markers right there. rise higher. We know that Anti-inflammatory drugs help with post-traumatic syndrome. Eat strong connection between the immune system and nervous system in a state of great stress, for example. Yes, somewhere around there I live in a situation of this stress, social stress. We see that, at least on worms, drugs, who treat them, well, I don't know if worm depression, but something similar, prolong life greatly. And all this the field of pharmacology and biology is very poorly studied in long-term life people for the same cultural reason, because mental problems are your problems. You deal with them yourself, like with regret. Class. Look, I didn't know this, but It's just that again these technologies are for us now they give the opportunity not only as if m there to study more precisely, but also more look broadly at the world too and explore on a large amount of data some manifestations. So I agree with you, that we will eat all of this now. We will eat diet and exercise in tablet. Well, we're already doing it right now. We see, yes, we'll need to do something next. There is. And we will have to do something like this. AND here we are entering another public taboo because in this zone the mental health is poorly studied, people do not want get treatment. self-medicate with things that shouldn't be done speak. Yes. But I don’t want to make drugs there, because what works might be the next day after registration forbidden. Class. And already today we are with that was touched upon, yes, that what is possible choose the color of the eyes and hair for the child, check him for any allergies and other things. What is called here, I as I understand it, genetic engineering engineering, as if it were actually gaining momentum too turns. A couple of years ago you gave interview and said that he came, Actually, Trump, and he's trying modify the legislation design. And from the point of view drug testing, which is now, actually, twenty or three should pass there clinical trials, only after This can be used to sell medicines. And here it is the Trump administration is trying to do so that this could be done at the stage research is already being sold. And this is very would have a positive impact on the world and would give more money for pharmaceutical companies and new research and so on. Actually, a couple of years have passed since that interview happened in the world and does it even exist in the world? some kind of movement, because I am so I understand that this thing is a global block that seems to interfere development of pharmacology in general. Yes, yes, let me reflect first, that, yes, of course, it's good to talk about this as a block. Yes. But on the other hand, the idea that the state forces testing medications, she's actually quite new. That is, the majority In human history, no one has found a cure tested. Yes. And in general, there has been progress in recent times. 30-50 years, where we started to get such drugs, such as immunotherapy, asp medicine and so on, this is significantly in significant, in in a significant way the result of these the most boring, uh, the ones that bother everyone regulators, which made people prove that The medicine is effective and safe. AND in general, this whole revolution pharmacology, which we now we live - this is to a large extent revolution due to the emergence of regulators. Yes, sure. Now that we have effective drugs have appeared and so on then we sit and start complaining about regulators. But I just wish it fix. The regulators gave us These are effective drugs, so let's go let's not treat them just as the source as the source of the problem, yes, in no case. Oh, because I hear such a narrative, I I strongly disagree with him. Now, of course, this does not mean that the way we We are currently testing a drug that is the only possible or optimal one. Right? And there is a very high probability, that the regulator is playing it safe. When you are a government regulator, then the main principle is to make sure nothing happens. There will be a new drug or not. People no matter how well we live and nothing happens to begin, as we know. Well, if there is one child will have some kind of problem there fatal reaction, then this is what We must prevent. And yes, there were Horrible incidents during the first tests genetic therapies, for example, were deaths of patients, for example. That is to say, yes, Well, yes, of course, this happens, yes. Well again, this doesn't mean that it's not necessary improve something. Let's take for example, Brian Johnson, yeah, and here are the guys who are in They do something, they try come up with some alternative schemes. Brian Johnson in this sense in general a unique person. He is experiencing to myself, not that I encourage doing this, but he and a group of people who, well, he is close to them ideologically, they They say a very simple thing. They say: "Why should I conduct clinical testing the drug, and for which to find out whether it works or not, 1,000 people are needed in the experimental group. But it is clear that if you need 1000 a person to see the result, well, in as a result of averaging, it means that the effect of this drug is, well, approximately insignificant. Well, either it only works for several people. and you don't know for Why them, and why give it? That is It is, on average, practically useless. Brian Johnson says let me be test drugs, but the subject It helps me alone. If power the effect is so big that I just I see the effect myself, so it exists. But I understand that this research is not are needed, Yes, studies on one patient. Let's at least choose what works on one patient, yes, I understand. Well, that's obvious. That is, and, probably, in what he says, well, that is this It may not be universal, but there is a share truth, yes, why should we pull it out medications, well, if they are really needed big groups, big money, then, most likely you don't understand, he either doesn't it works, or you don't know who it is for give, right? Yes. Perhaps, if there was evidence that the drug can work in small group, that you are right I selected patients and the effect is great, then, maybe we shouldn't do that a huge amount of research, which are required as if you are his You want to give to thousands of people, right? At this moment it starts right now new science grows, including with artificial intelligence when people look at the historical past clinical trials and trying to understand and were the protocols chosen correctly? weren't people forced to do more? research, what is needed, did not lead this is because we are pulling out the drugs, which, perhaps, should not be registered it was necessary because there was a check mark there, what are they, perhaps effective. That is, several revolutionary ones changes are happening. Firstly, a situation arises when the drug is still It's not registered, but it's very helpful to the patient. needed. And if the pharmaceutical company, if If the developer doesn't mind, then it can be done give registration to the patient, yes, that's it, eh, the use of the drug for humane purposes there are goals and so on, it's actually opens up the opportunity to quickly build up group size. If they appear, conditionally speaking of rumors that the drug helps people, well, that is, effective in the sense Brian Johnson, more than others patients through their social networks and so on, they will also want to participate and receive it too. Right? Yes. That is, in my opinion, it is very a good measure when some drug, if he really starts working in small groups, then due to this word of mouth spreads quickly and development is accelerated. Why not? No? Yes, this is kind of the first thing. A secondly, what I see is that it is arising conditional approval, what if you you show that the drug is safe, that if you have reasonable grounds there is no evidence yet that it can work evidence that he can work, already on animals, you can allow it to be given to patients. Yes, of course, if you don't prove it, well, for you won't be able to prove that he is for some time works or there will be a risk of security, then you will be recalled from this registration. But in fact it allows you get to the market before you get there finally registered, and quickly dial the size of the cohorts. Do you remember us? Today we discussed that in this sense Money buys time. If you can quickly go to a large cohort, then you You can find out the result faster. Yes, of course, as long as it's done on animals. And again on animals in the USA allowed to test the drug against aging, what can still be done on people it is forbidden. I see there's a new one there now the FDA administration and the FDA itself experiment in different ways. More biomarkers, more modeling, yes, that is, new designs clinical trials that can be make it more statistically complex processing using historical data and so on. It's not a quick process because here every step is clinical a study that takes several years. But I see that there are people like this new tricks in clinical trials it's getting bigger and bigger. I'm straight I'm sure this will lead to a reduction cost. Yes. But not instead of regulators. Just the regulator must be flexible and start allow such things. Well, listen, if we specify for the last couple of years years since the last interview, in which you talked about this, it was possible is there the same Trump administration there? to modify something or this, Well, we don't know exactly, it's a result. Trump administration or just a new one FDA administration, but what we see right now - this is what is here the company that is testing the drug anti-aging on dogs. Yeah. This is just the push. Yes. Yes. This is the company that attracted us 250 million dollars investment. Dogs - This is a big market. These are not people yet, but I think it's a good reason for experiments. I see two here innovations, that, well, she's the first one yet something happened earlier that they were allowed to anti-aging drug for dogs start to feel what's cool. And secondly, they are already conducting clinical trials, as a result of which they can I'll get this one soon conditional registration. Yes. In fact, all investors will be the drug has been shown to be anti-aging, at least on animals, they can get the opportunity to sell earlier, than if they had gone through all the classics testing stage. I think that if this The lesson will go into the program, as they say, then we we will see signs of this system on people at some future time. That is, relatively speaking, I don’t know, whether this parallel exists here or not, because they are still somewhat different things. Could this lead to the fact that some kind of genetic experiments, genetic engineering, that it will become like this ubiquitous, that they will come to this or that is it still beyond the bounds of ethics and everything else? No, look, it's not related to anything specific. a form of therapy, right? What does therapy look like? In this sense, this is the tenth question. Specifically, gene therapy has the problem is that it is more difficult to turn off, and therefore the requirements there will definitely be higher. Something went wrong with the pill, They pumped out the pill, stopped giving it and Everything is fine. If something happens with gene therapy things will go wrong, then what to do with this person? much less clear, yes, this is the main one argument against, well, sort of careless gene therapy trial. And I would probably watch a little bit in a different way, which is already there now oncological diseases have been around for a long time it was decided that patients with drugs for oncological diseases can be given without execution security. Well, almost immediately. It can be given to sick people, right? And, most likely, we will see a situation that if there is a clinical one somewhere research, and somewhere there is a patient, which is not included in this clinical research, but to which it could help, then this patient, perhaps, it is the medicine will be sold before registration if there is already enough data in the tests good thing you don't give him access to this the drug is unethical. I understand. And this can create a situation where, which seems to have started working even before of how it receives registration, it can get into people for money. And for For investors, this will be a signal that you have No registration, but you've already started sell. Well, and accordingly, investors will be more willing to invest in pharmaceuticals. AND This attracts more money. This is all right now it's somewhere on the edge, as if a little bit speculations, discussions, and somewhere with on the other hand, there is a situation when the trial is underway, the drug is available, and now There are laws where you can get such a drug. you can get it, and then we'll be somewhere else we are in this gray zone, get for free. And from what point should the company give it to him for free? Yes, it's her, Well, we didn't get this from investors. people, but this is not there. And on the other hand It would be unethical not to give him the rones, but he has some money or someone is ready for it pay. And here we are in this gray zone we get there. In my opinion, this is a signal that if something starts working, then he can be given more access. And where? there is a combination of ethics, correct design of clinical trials to you can't fool yourself, because that's how it is we can still start tiling, well, choose cases that work, Right? There is a lot of stuff here, as it were. problems. The main thing here is that where there is will, there is There is a way. That's why I don't laugh at Brian Johnson as an example, yes, Brian Johnson just took it and both of them I'm not laughing, I I really admire it. I just to to what is more for me, I am what mentioned it in context several times that this is the case, yes, that a person who lives in absolute isolated conditions there with a thousand doctors, components of supplements, and so on, and so on, and so on, in the end suddenly begins to suffer from an autoimmune disease stomach diseases, he has some kind of autoimmune gastritis and which occurred I just don't understand what's going on with this do. I was talking about cases, yes, that In this sport, following the rules is not guarantees a good result. Good result. Yes, yes, yes, yes. Super final blitz. And in your opinion, The main myth about aging that people believe most people? That aging is inevitable, and the fight against it unnatural? Top. What accelerates aging the most? organism? High dose of radiation. An unexpected answer. What What health indicator would you recommend? regularly monitor each to a person? A regularly, taking into account that aging do nothing slowly and regularly necessary. Once a year is enough. Vodva Max. Super. How old will people live to? born today? More than half of them will live longer than up to 90 years. Calculate your pension. Right. Save for retirement. Save for retirement, that's right. Which technology will change the most? medicine in the next 10 years? A in the next few years, in the next 10 years this is it will most likely be epigenetic reprogramming Yes. Well, let's give a short answer. pitically. Come on, come on, yeah. Expand because I don't know what this is. Well, there are some that appear, well, most of them the drugs act as if inside cells. And now drugs are appearing, which can rejuvenate entire organs and fabrics. Yeah. And there are factors and monasticism there, for, who gave the Nomel Prize, who rejuvenate the adult cell to Eggs, yes, can reset your age. to zero, yes, it will not lead to complete position, but it may help restore the pancreas, neurons that die. We take what doesn't work and insert it new. some kind of signal for rejuvenation locally and the tissue is locally rejuvenated. If it was the fabric that was responsible for motor neurons, they are rejuvenated and start to work correctly motorize a person. It is possible to cure severe diseases. And this is the rejuvenation of organs essence. Super. And there is one interview in which You are so philosophizing there with the host the topic of what the point is anyway live long. And, in fact, he is for you he says that I personally don’t understand, Why should I live 120 years, what is it worth it for? live long. Ah, but I can turn it over for blitz argument and say that the question is so It's not worth it anymore. We discussed today, that they won't let you leave early, that's why there are simply no options, Yes? So we are now discussing the issue, how you will live, not how long you will live you will live. Cool answer. Final advice to myself eighteen years old. As a victim of Soviet education believed that the world was more egolitaristic than he was Actually, there is. I was lucky to study at the best institute. countries, and that's why I have a breed coincidentally normal. But how would I underestimated the importance of systematicity. If If you want to achieve the highest achievements, you need to it's too early to get to people who are these higher achievements achieved. There are few currants. That there is this knowledge that is passed down from master to apprentice, but in any big sport, there is everything from science to, there, I don’t know, wars, medicine, what whatever, it is very important to get into a good one group. Well, look what's going on in artificial intelligence. People now, Who worked with Hinton, who received for This is the Nobel Prize, everyone created it the largest companies. In general, you don’t need to think that somehow system, the systemic factor is extremely important. Cool, super, excellent. This seems to me to be very good advice, I think, for me Exactly. By the way, the same. Thank you big. Very interesting. And so much diverse information that To some extent, it's probably scary. sj Rons, will absolutely definitely give ground for new thoughts, to search for some new information, even more depth. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you for inviting me. Friends, who watched us to the end, if did you like it, was it useful, Be sure to subscribe to the channel, Give this video a like and that's it The main thing is, share yours in the comments conclusions, ideas, insights, that gleaned from today's episode. To new meetings. Bye bye.