Iris LaVine welcome to acquiring minds thank you happy to be here and like I shared before been been listening for what feels like a long time not super long and learned a lot so excited to to chat awesome well Iris uh you were listening I guess during your search which culminated in your acquisition of the porch company a design and build firm that is older than you and is based in your native Nashville which will be a big part of your store wor and motivation so let's get into that story please start us off with some background on you Iris yeah thanks so Bor R like you mentioned here in Nashville um I eventually made my way up to Boston uh where I went to school at toughs uh and I I should this will probably come up but and we talked about in our preall did not have the quintessential background in childhood that one would maybe uh have that's conducive to being where I am today uh so was fortunate to you know have some tough early early learned lessons and a lot of people that believed in me some teacher that that said hey maybe try going to school out of state scholarships can pay for college and that landed me up in New England and around a lot of folks that were different from those that I had kind of grown up around um graduated C can you say more about that what was what was childhood like uh rough I would say so I grew up uh which again is kind of again this full full story moment probably three minutes from where my office is currently uh not the place you know didn't learn how to ride a bike until I was fourth fourth grade because we had tons of violence going on outside had parents that were divorced single mom uh you know up through college my mom passed away so just I had a lot of Privileges and I had a lot of tough things and um probably more statistics that would say that I would be a statistic than being 29 and owning a business um and and and so a guidance counselor or someone said good for you to get out of town if you can sort of thing for college I had kind of always knew that I I didn't I thought I would never come back to Nashville quite frankly um I mean I have the most incredible support system in network I just didn't really feel like there was much for me here um and kind of always had this desire to live elsewhere but uh also went to a school that it was one of the best schools in the state and had horrible high schools and had horrible guidance counseling um and so yeah kind of the default was go to school in state because you can get scholarships um and the instate scholarships and I had one teacher that you know I a lot of teachers that took a a deep investment in me in one particular said hey you know you're really interested in Eon and interos relations have you heard about this place called tus had not didn't visit any colleges before I got into them um and so yeah if it hadn't been for him and other folks that just said you know put little bugs to my head of there's more and other things out there than just defaulting to you know going to the state school three hours away um you might might be worth looking into and hey also by the way most of the people there are really wealthy and their parents are paying for college and so there's more scholarships that the the college can give that um in addition to Aid so yeah that was you know some of the single best advice I could have ever asked for and I also met my husband and you know like at there's so many things that came out of that other than just you know so tough was a good experience yeah yeah hands down like one of the best best decisions that I I could have made and made without much information but uh made it and and very very grateful and not coming from a wealthy background how did you how did you end up uh putting yourself through toughs financially speaking financially and working three or four jobs at a time and you know I had an aunt that gave me a little bit of support but yeah I mean I was I was paying my rent I was paying for groceries I was you know tracking every penny I don't think I went out to eat ever until I started dating my husband and you know he would pay to go out to eat and that was that was it um and yeah it was it was very much a um I I think in our preall you asked if I felt different or otherwise and and I guess there was a sense of that like I knew that I didn't have the backgrounds of other folks you know I'm sitting next to the daughter of a the CEO of PayPal was a private yeah like multiple houses and and that's just normal but I never felt other than and uh and honestly I felt bad for some folks that you know were on their own for the first time had no idea how to uh you know cook for themselves or clean or you know like I uh there was no I don't really feel like I had a time where I felt other than or that I wasn't set up for Success felt like I was being set up for more success in many ways than other folks because I was kind of already living in the real world versus this you know fake fake world that uh sometimes these Elite colleges and backgrounds can can create uh and then a roote Awakening when people actually graduate and do have to take care of themselves so yeah or maybe they continue not having to that that's fair that's fair you make a good point there or choose not to okay all right so and you graduate early yeah so graduate early wanted to stop having to work three jobs just to pay the tuition and wanted to really make make money and just got to a point where I felt like I could learn things that weren't necessarily in college I was I was ready to be kind of love being around folks still want to live on outside of campus with my friends but also was ready to make money uh and kind of go on to my next challenge and that led me to a financial development program out of Fortune 100 company and I before we get there Iris yeah just I mean this is all I think um relevant to understanding who you are yeah the how did you do uh what I assume was you know fairly rigorous although the fancy schools maybe aren't as rigorous as as their tuition would suggest yeah um but let's assume it was rigorous how did you do have a rigorous education or rigorous CL coursework um and be working all these jobs uh and condense that all into three years like did you have did you do a keg stand at any point or was this just was this just was there any fun no yeah was there any fun or were you just Balls to the- Wall for three years to between work and study to get out in these three years you know I that's a good there there were no keg stands I can say that uh but but there was a lot of fun I mean I was really involved with our outdoor club I was spending most weekends I would go up to New Hampshire and spend Time Out outdoors and I I think folks are a lot more capable and can pack in a lot more than they likely end up doing um so yeah was I like a crazy partyer absolutely not but that's also just not who I am but was there time for fun and things that really fulfilled me um and building really strong relationships absolutely like I was not I was definitely not just straight from office to you know to school and back and to sleep um yeah good and you know I I was not a 4.0 student but graduated pretty Sol grades and and that was kind of the trade-off like like could I've been probably yes did I at that point think that that mattered it was all Balan like where where do I put my energy um yeah and came out on the other end that very that very theme is one that will uh play a role this decision that we're here to discuss super all right okay so carry on please with what you did after these three years of toughs yeah so uh T Liber Arts doesn't have a business degree or component um and so that was kind of played into my decision there there was an aspect of I want to make a solid amount of money and I also want to continue learning and do something that maybe I wasn't exposed to do um and that led me to the you know Finance World um very quickly I say quickly it took a couple years but after a couple years decided bureaucracy and you know large companies where you have to wait two years just to get a promotion because the box of having been in a role for two years has to be checked was not for me um and set my sites kind of on me end during my way to high growth startups um which I think had always been in my head as something I would be interested in in terms of the challenge and the pace and the rigger um and so moved down to Nashville uh which was home for me but but new for my now husband uh from New England and that was right and and Iris why back to Nashville when you when you left Nashville you thought you'd never go back that's a great question so I mean at that point we'd been in Boston seven years um and we kind of just knew we wanted to change we talked about Seattle where we had a lot of friends Denver we had a lot of friends and Nashville was kind of the other Contender um at that point my family my cousins who I become very close with they were down here with their partner starting family and and we had spent a decent amount of time visiting and the sentiment of this place has nothing for me I mean Ashville changed a lot um and and I saw a different city and realized that you know it's not the the other the grass is not always greener there were things I loved about living in Asheville um and it was it was just home um so cost of living was certainly appealing um but mostly it was it was family and friends and thinking about okay if we want to you know buy a house and maybe have a family where do we really want to set down roots and um all the other cities in many regards felt transient uh and and kind of lacked those roots in community that we really wanted and Nashville had that where I friends and family I know will will not leave and we'll always be here and so that was really really appealing well and it also happened to be a well I guess this was before Nashville became Austin 2.0 or you know the next hot place that every wants yeah yeah probably right before that although I mean it had been growing every year I came back after graduating high school it was completely different city and still felt that way so um so what year was it that you moved back uh 2020 literally a week two weeks before the pandemic uh is when we moved back so four four or five years ago yeah okay so you moved back just before the pandemic just in time and which I guess is actually a happy happy timing because otherwise you big uh yeah yard and family and not being in a 400 bareford apartment yeah right right exactly uh and start working in Tech so how what do you find in in your Tech stint yeah so really enjoyed it I mean I loved working with the people that I were working was working with I loved waking up and you know working on 10 different things and there always being kind of another problem to solve and just feeling and I was working at earlier stage girl startup so there was never never felt like I was stuck to kind of a rigorous system of I have to check this box to go here and to do that as uh if you see a problem and you want to take initiative to fix it that's probably going to be accepted and rewarded and um that was really gratifying to me and really just kind of struck a chord with how I operate um and so that spent a stint in two different pet companies um both in healthare care and then construction technology um and that brought me to I guess late fall early winter of 2023 um you know we had lots of layoffs and it went from kind of the Heyday and lots of fun where you're working with your best friends to just everyone kind of on edge at all times um and that combined with seeing and I think I mentioned this as well on a preall increasingly I had my cousins were kind of Life Stage ahead of us um having kids and seeing kind of the decisions that they were making um in terms of careers and balancing that with family and my husband I are very fortunate to be very involved in their lives and the Little's lives and be able to see what that looks like and yeah had kind of this Reckoning internally of I don't think I can do this forever I've always wanted to be my own boss in some capacity and kind of control my own destiny and um what does that look like and maybe now is the time and and started just deeply exploring do I want to start my own tech company do want want to be a consultant and then enter the third factor which was my cousins I think it was my cousins at some point introduced this concept of you know you care a lot about Nashville it's a you know deeply embedded in you could there be a business that already exist that you would go run um and and that sent me into the deep rabbit hole and kind of immediately was like that's it like that is what I'm going to do I think I probably spent a month month or two really like deep diving before I even said anything to my husband cuz I was like I need to fully understand this before I try to explain it to him because it's kind of a wild concept uh and I'm generally an internal kind of processor and I wanted I've done that strategizing in my relationship and not even like strateg I knew the second I said I wanted to do this you'd be like all right sounds good but I also was like I don't even understand this yet uh you know truly and I like literally have the notebook here where in in November and December I was have acquiring minds episode blah blah blah you know who is the guest where do they live what's their story um and just like deep studying before I could even explain to anyone else yeah I got to know what an L was in November December so I'm GNA explain that to to someone else and make it make sense so um and so you were exposed to Eta because somebody had somebody in your network your you think it was your cousin kind of said as a brainstorm kind of randomly maybe you could run a business here locally but not because they knew what quote unquote ETA was so so so then they did my so my one of my cousins is in small business lending but basically lends when the SBA frequently can't lend it's technically a nonprofit um but he's been in lending for a while so he's exposed this he's plugged into to all the SBA lenders and folks and then my other cousin he actually had a friend that was working at a painting company um that was given the offer to buy it and he was an investor in that did he know what eta was or that term no but they were operating in that uh Without Really knowing you know the buzzword and terms uh so they were definitely kind of first exposure without explicitly saying this is ETA just a little bit more on you know you you being exposed to the children in your network your cousin kids and like thinking ahead for your own life what was the what was the kind of realization that what you couldn't be at a tech company and have kids buying a business because you it sounds like you considered starting a business starting Tech startup and now buying a bus so these are not light lifts either yeah but they have more flexibility is probably where you're going right I think it was the control and the flexibility and it was you one set of cousins where uh like both both women ended up leaving their jobs one went to Consulting and both of them you know like one was a principal and started being a principal at I don't even know younger than I was 27 you know highly uh successful in her world and another were in sales and they both made the decision to leave after having kids because they just felt it wasn't tenable to do both um and and then that combined with seeing folks in at the company I was at some of the most talented individuals and women that I worked with and there weren't that many women to begin with um and they would reach kind of that stage and we would have these like long conversations walking around the outside of the building about how they just felt like they cannot do both and they're not in an environment to do both um and just like kind of like tugs at your gut like that sucks like you know it shouldn't be one or the other and um feeling like it can be both like I can work hard and you know pour myself into work and there are ways that that can be done and also you know have kids and have flexibility and um of course there's always a balance to things but just felt like being my own boss would would provide a lot more flexibility than than not um and just wanting to set myself up to hopefully be able to have that balance and make those decisions for myself versus have someone else make them for me well Iris you could really you could emerge as a a real case study and a real and a real uh Beacon for women who have to struggle with the same behind you who are struggling with the same kind of set of decisions yeah and you see a lot of me I mean like I you hear it on I feel like yeah more than not on your podcast that they made this decision because you know creating life for their family and the balance and um and fortunate enough that my husband and I had this front row seat and were able to kind of talk through and think through what we wanted our life to look like before we entered that phase yeah um so definitely grateful to have kind of the exposure um in that sense well certainly flexibility and control of one's Destiny Etc is is a theme that comes up in probably every story yeah um still like it or not the the child rearing uh Falls more heavily on women than on men so it's it's a different calculation for for you all y um okay so down the rabbit hole you go uh just shy of a year ago so this is November December of 2023 yep um what does your search how does it start to take shape yeah so initially it was just talking to anyone that had a heartbeat that knew what eta was basically uh and through Network and listen to podcast and and you know there were times they had cold cold Outreach from folks that had been on the podcast as I mentioned um would talk to one person in Nashville is really just it's just a it's a bigger you know we're a growing city but small town fi and you talk to one person and they refer you to five more people and those five people are fre you back out to you know and it's everyone is there's this camaraderie and support that maybe exist I think it exists generally in ETA and I think it's even higher in in Nashville uh only experien here but it feels that way uh where folks are just willing to do whatever they can to help you and really be there for you um so yeah about you know I I kind of set my sites on New Year I wanted to really uh kick things off and that started by talking to Brokers um I set my criteria and you know I read the build by and build and you know followed the steps and met with a Brokers and you know I was really just I hate to say guessing on every step but kind you know I was following a bit of a rubric but I didn't know what I was doing so just kind of take one step in front of the other and see what sticks and um connected with one broker in probably mid-February so you know a few weeks into my full-time search and he said hey I think I might have a good fit to you for you it's a woman-owned construction business and Outdoor Living uh wait Iris before before we hear about the porch company can you give us some a sense of what your resources Financial Resources were or or or that well yes that but also so kind of size of business you were targeting was it as big as possible or was it yeah uh the typical kind of 750 SD and above or not or what yeah yeah so I'll I'll start with my criteria then go to Financial Resources so I had set my criteria as non retail non restaurants pretty standard uh had to be in the Nashville area and I think I the emails that I sent out were something like 400 SD to a million of SD thinking there's no way in heck that I'm going to find a million dollar SD another other thing that was really important to me is if at all possible I wanted full ownership um and that was kind of coming from Tech background and seeing what happens when you have a board and just wanting to avoid that quite frankly um and really truly have the full control so um so no investors for your Equity IDE I was hoping I was hoping to have no investors again naille fortunate that basically everyone I talked to said let me know if if you want investors and I said thank you kindly hopefully don't but I'll let you know I do um and yeah so and then in terms of uh Financial Resources I I more or less was thinking I would be it would be somewhere in the 100,000 to 200,000 that we would end up putting in um and kind of threw a combination of things I had I had fortunate we're fortunate to be making more than we ever spend in Nashville so some of that was just savings um we had Investments didn't really want to have to pull from those uh also we're very fortunate that we uh bought in 2020 our house and so um I can get to this later but we ended up actually tapping into our HELOC for part of it so we could keep some cash reserves um and not have to touch any of our investments with kind of the the knowledge that we'd likely be able to more or less pay that off pretty quickly so um and then and then the other piece which is worth mentioning my husband had a full-time job and we can way more than live on his you know salary and so that was I knew I was going to feel not great just internally if I wasn't making money in a few months because that's just you know ingrained in me as wanting to be able to make money and contribute uh but in theory had could could survive for a very long time and then some um without needing to bring in dollars uh because my husband was was still working so the the famed spouse funded search yes yes um but Iris just to be clear on the far end your criteria Spectrum a million dollars of SD that is a business that would trade for four to five million and require you know half a million to a million down payment so if you if you if you were fortunate enough to find such a business that was going to require investors or or was that something that you could manage I didn't want no that would I don't think we would have like drained our investments and so that would have that would have been beyond what we could have tapped into um um or would have want to tapped into uh so it wasn't that I was closed off to that um to the investor piece it was that I had a desire to go without it and the spoiler alord is that I did end up with a business that size and and didn't have to take on investors um so they do do exist out there yeah so oh well great teaser can't wait to hear how you pulled it off now um tell me about this Mastermind group yes this is a big part of your search yes so I pretty early on you see all the and you hear acquiring mindes the lab and there are all these different resources that I think can be great for folks and I'm glad that they exist um a pretty Scrappy person and just like I doesn't sit well with me to be spending five eight $10,000 um to learn how to do this when I I found so early that folks are just super supportive but the thing that I did feel like I was missing was people to go along the journey with so I had plenty of people that had been there done that could help me along but not necess people that were actively searching at the same time um and just no one really understands like if they're not doing it they don't understand what you're going through so um just posted on search funer kind of copied to individual that I connected with that had done that and said hey looking for folks that want to meet every other week um got together a group of eight individuals um and we met every other week about everything you know texting and met by Zoom met by Zoom yes all over the country very intentionally different geographies and different Industries um just so that we weren't overlapping with search criteria um and these eight people did you filter anybody out like I assume in a mastermind like that you kind of want people who are serious who are really on this path did you filter for that or were say art art not science yeah uh when I like when people messag me I would you know and I had one other individual that I connected with that was kind of helping run this this process it was like two days um but yeah they would you would ask a couple questions of what are your criteria you know what traction have you gotten so far how long have you been searching and you know you could tell the folks that provided really thoughtful um kind of responses and those that didn't and you know was just a we didn't want to over engineer and went with our gut and ended up with a fantastic group of eight folks uh I think we have four out of eight since we started that we started that in February I think have closed a business so um with a couple couple on our heels to close so it's been incredible and we still meet now as part operator part Search Group um and it's been one of the one of the best things that we that I did and it was free so so recommend others to do that so to be clear you put together this Mastermind you found the people on search funer you did do some some filtering for people who seemed serious in their search you ended group and this was in February of those people have already closed and another couple look like they're going to close yeah yeah yeah and I'm G to be speaking with a couple of these people thank you for the interest y y that's incredible now do you think that the this Mastermind peer group was a contributor to everybody's success or or were these all just such serious people that they would have made it happen for themselves anyway is there a correlation or just coin a good question uh I think there's a correlation I I don't think it's coincidence I think there's I'm a a big believer in kind of networks and support and that you go uh What's the phrase you can go further faster yeah something about that yeah further what is it further together faster alone yeah yeah something like that um and yeah I mean there's just something to be said about having that one question late at night and being like I don't have anyone around me that can answer this and maybe I can find it on search funer but like I have seven other people that are in this that have issued Lois um that have raised from investors that have gone through the SBA lending process you know little things like what was and and we were all very transparent like what rates are you getting from the SBA what terms for Investments um who are you working with a lawyer or Q of and how much are they charging and who did you like that you worked with just there's like a million question that questions that come up and to have a group that was there basically all hours um just humbly and um yeah just there to help and support and really cheering folks on with no competition and it was a pretty magical thing and I I don't think it's unrepeatable I think it's accessible to all there are plenty of people that are smart and are hungry and willing to do this that also want to help contribute to other success and confirming format was Zoom meetings once a week once every two weeks and then active WhatsApp zo meetings every other week and then had just text group and that was it nothing fancy thank you now back to the Porsche company what did you what did you find in this how remind us how you found it and then what tell us about it yeah so it was a local broker um one of the ones actually that I had reached out to had kind of radio silence and had I don't want to say ritten off but I was like am might never hear from him that's fine I don't know exactly which Brokers are truly active and have deals and which aren't no one ever does um and kind of out of the blue maybe two or three weeks after ID reached out to him and reached out to him again he picked up the phone and or texted me and we got on a call and he introduced me to this business uh really only shared that it was a a outdoor construction or I think he says Outdoor Living business is how he maybe framed it so he didn't know his construction didn't really know much beyond that um and I think maybe on that call he shared that it was woman-owned uh which which piqued my interest um and then from there looked at the Sim um and at that point I looked at like I mean I don't think I looked at more than four or five sims quite honestly maybe less than that um there was not tens of deal flow in Nashville and and it was like kind of a dead period of the Year people had some people hadn't follow taxes yeah it's just a tough time to like start a search and from others I my understanding is that deal flow was just slow he had not listed this at all he he didn't want to list it he wanted to come to rep to uh folks that he had kind of vetted um and so yes I was fortunate enough that I was one of the individuals that he shared it with um saw the Sim why why the fact that it was woman-owned did that peque your interest uh I mean I think one of the things that I was nervous about maybe it's not the word but aware that could be a challenge was I knew that a lot of these men there's a lot of men male business owners and I just kind of have the sense that like sitting across from a mail while I can deliver you know I can I can establish relationships pretty well with a lot of people we're not going to be going out for casual beers like there's just there's a certain level where I didn't feel like I felt like I would maybe be able to connect deeper with uh a woman-owned business than non and I guess going into my search anticipated that I would be buying a business from that wasn't woman owned so when there was a woman-owned business I like that's pretty cool and pretty cool that it's been 30 years women owned and in an industry that's typically not run by women and that's you know I've been in a lot of spaces for a long time that are male dominated and so it just kind of felt like it fit in many ways excellent was not a criteria by any means but definitely peaked my interest more about the business the bullet points age size employees what what specifically it it builds designs and builds we can we can guess by the name but tell us anyway no no shock they build porches um 30 plus year old business so older older than I am which was pretty cool um and yeah they they taught themselves as a design and build construction firm so folks come into the showroom um with an idea and we helped them design kind of their dream outdoor living space being porches uh and bring that to life um company size about I think it was about 20 employees when I um first started talking with the sellers um and then in terms of size of business over 6 million in in Revenue literally just doing porches um wow and okay so and and can you say anything about uh margins or profitability on that six million uh what I'll say is that it was at the upper end of what I was looking for uh for for SD and it is also definitely above average margins uh for the industry so very Sim ilar to I know we we talked about but the snow stonan and Allen Rock Lockridge uh very similar in terms of business size and profitability and whatnot Allan Lockridge so Stoneman North in North Carolina that episode aired probably sixish months ago so he that episode played talk about kind of serendipity moments that episode came on literally the morning that I was planning to draft in Loi uh very quickly reached out to him asked if I could touch base to get a sense of multiple ra and any Lessons Learned and we were on the phone two days later I think uh and now have monthly monthly calls and and are you know kind of connected as as owners which has been really fun but very similar business and dynamic Al Allan that was a great interview Alan's a great guy he one of the things we'll we'll we'll start poking at the business here uh and and to to do that the one of the things I recall from Allen's business is that so Allan so the stonem man is is sort of backyard um stonework masonry patios y hardscapes thank you and but the the way the business is structured is I think he only has like 10 employees um so office admin designers uh but the actual masonry work is done by a handful of Subs that he works with which is great because it means um all those folks aren't on payroll so in tight times he's not having to you know support a big St y um how did that how did that piece the kind of your your construction folks do they work for you or do they work for the apprach company or are they Subs yeah so that's the one I would say one of the big differences is we have in-house Carpenters um and that's our bread and butter being carpentry and building porches that are very high-end is a little different than stonework um and so yeah what do you mean by that it reques higher skilled is that I don't want to say higher skilled because masonry requires High skill um but there's difference in that yeah there's there is a certain level of higher skilled and intricacy to the to carpentry versus you can sub out Crews that are laying Stone a little more functionally and you know you're not going to see the errors quite as much yeah and and in terms of like pure liability which I know they build structures as well but we are building structures with roofs on them um and so you know we we go through all the all the permitting you could ever imagine we go through and some of that and the business has made the decision to have in-house Carpenters to really control that piece of the business um and over time they've figured out very specific ways to build the porches which is boring to everyone else but it's interesting to me in terms of you know our columns are Hollow and we make them so that you can run electricity through and you know slight slope to the porch which most people don't do to drain water off and just everything has been is designed and done very intentionally so it's very difficult to just bring in a framing crew and say put up these four walls and have it turn out the way that we have our porches turn out and have them standing 30 plus years later um it's something that we do supplement Crews a little bit uh and and sub out the other trades and it's something that maybe we'll do but just has not been historically what we've relied on yeah yeah so so the porch company has really developed a sort of proprietary product over the years yeah and process and um and in a situation like that quality control becomes even more kind of not to say that companies using Subs aren't doing their own quality control of course they are but for you you really want to just be on top of that and have those people in house y um okay and so s okay so now the obvious question always with a construction company you know where you know first question out of my mouth yeah talk to me about the quality of Revenue as you perceived it it notorious cyclicality yeah um so fortunate that there is I mean I star at those numbers there really is no cyclicality um and we're there's so so let me get into that in terms of Revenue coming in so and all we are living that currently and I say all this with a graa have talked to me in a year or two because I'm a few months into actually owning the business but I feel pretty confident that what I see and know and have felt is going to be kind of what sustains and the numbers are true all that to say uh we're in Nashville so we can build build you around um so that is a huge aspect not the same as if we were in New England there would be massive cyclicality um we generally have a two to four month uh lead time so for example right now we're at the end of September and we are booked through February and March until we're even starting the next porch so typically we see or at least from what I understand have seen leads sometimes slow down in the November December time frame but if someone comes to us and November December we're probably not starting their porch until the spring anyways um so we kind of have a little bit of um protection from that cality your pipeline is so deep that in tighter times the pipeline might shorten but it's still enough pipeline that you don't actually feel it in terms of Revenue and they've had they've had like I know that they've had times where they've been like okay we don't have that two months like that's stressful what are what are we going to do so it's not to say it never happens um but the business has sustained for over 30 years and based on you know what it ended up selling for and a number of like our the business could really really you know almost crashed by 75% and we would still be able to cover debt um expenses would be another thing but you know we we have a lot of kind of a large safety net um that other businesses that are trading a lot higher don't necessarily have that aren't Project based and what other risk risks did you see in the business downside here yeah I think I mean you you got to keep feeding the Beast that I me that was the big the fact that it was product based was something that I knew was not you know really nice to wake I'm just know what you're gonna have in Revenue six months from now um and so I knew that that was that was a piece that I would kind of always navigate with I knew um talent and like both retaining and um getting talent in terms of especially the trades is just difficult it's difficult for everyone um and then you know I knew that I didn't have a construction background like I consider myself a handy person but I just knew there was a lot of stuff that I didn't know and so I needed to feel really confident that there was a team in place that could help me get there and could stand on their own two feet and sellers that were going to be with me every step of the way uh to kind of catch me as I fall because they've learned this over 30 years um that's actually something in our first seller meeting that I you know said to to seller I don't I'm not I don't have background in construction so if that's what you're looking for a need like I'm probably not your person um and she said well you know when I asked you what you were good at a few minutes ago you said and what you like to do you said problem solving and that's really all this is and that's all construction is and she actually left her job at IBM in the 90s to start a construction company so there was some similarities there in terms of her path and that I think she saw you know it's okay if you don't have the construction you have the tenacity and the grit and you know figure it out mindset so you'll be all right probably um which made me just feel yeah feel okay about those those downsides so to speak the fact that this is in you know tied to the kind of residential Improvement Market um certainly would must be benefiting from the growth in Nashville uh so those numbers that you cited the $6 million a year are those how how much how many years of History did you get a chance to look at um how long has it been doing Revenue like that uh how long has it been Revenue like that I mean it's been in a steady increase basically since they started the business but it really definitely hit those like higher four or five million dollars uh right before and then around Co and then has sustained and slightly grown um and so those were you know reassuring to me that that could be maintained and again yeah if it couldn't be maintained and it dropped by a million two mli we would still be way more than you know okay obviously that's not the ideal um but the downside was not you know if we dropped in Revenue it wasn't going to be you know the business has to shutter its doors because we had enough of a buffer and and so it got a bit of a boost from covid but I I would imagine a business like this where we talked about this with Allen and any as we all know everybody dumped a lot of money into their homes during Co so you would think that there would be not just a nice covid bump in this business but a CO surge but it doesn't sound like it sounds like it was a little bit more gradual maybe it's come back a little bit but it it wasn't actually the it wasn't it wasn't so such a kind of a skew a skewed data point as it is in other businesses so I would say they had a surge in terms of inbounds and that's like their lead time got up to I don't I want to say it was like 8 to 10 maybe even 12 months so the surge was at at a certain point the team could only do so much especially within house Crews and so they kind of were at this like equilibrium and so where the surge came in was not necessarily this massive Spike to revenue although there was an increase in Revenue it was a massive Spike to lead time um and they didn't crazy grow you know they they very I think intentionally they're generally conservative by Nature they could have poured fuel on the fire and said let's pull in a ton of Crews and let's subcontract and let's do this and that so that we can feed this demand they really focused on doing what they do well and continuing to do it and not majorly changing how they operated um so yeah they got they got a bump but they didn't it wasn't like a Skyrocket and a crash down well how prudent of them in retrospect yeah yeah great it's like they've been doing it for 25 years or so at that point you know they seen seen a few things going back to the the size of this business so I think $6 million a year for a company that builds porches seems like a lot surprised you probably surprise surprise me probably surprise the audience that's great how many porches a year is that in other words what's the kind of average cost per porch so average cost per porch generally is around we'll call it average around 100,000 is pretty pretty standard sometimes we're a little bit higher than that sometimes we're at 200,000 um and so 60 60 projects a year around 60 a year is a a pretty good swag for that yep yeah so you've got five going well you've probably got many more going at any given time but five concluding and five every month yeah yeah um great and then is this a business where because it is at the front of a house and so inherently visual that there's this great marketing effect where um you know people see the porch and then say to their neighbor I want that porch and call you sort of thing and yeah is there signage like while they're building the porch is there a nice big the porch company sign on the side of the on the side of the whatever the construction site what marketing look like because I'm I'm thinking between you and Allen's business the similarities Allan's probably like man I should have bought a front yard business not a backyard bus we actually so most of our so most of our work is in our like back porches so we'll do front porches but in terms of if you think of most people's yards where they're building like a I mean we're bring building essentially Living Spaces where they're eating in there they have a TV and most frequently that's on the back of the side of the house of course of course I think front porch for some reason but you're right of course it's going to be so the front porches are generally the smaller projects um and we don't like front porches we like those big the the founder really doesn't like for front porches um and we deal with I think most places deal with this but they're setbacks and frequently you can't actually build onto the front of a house but you can't build off the side or the back yes it just depends but that's frequently what we run into but yeah so um in terms of marketing I mean it is largely Word of Mouth referral it's been for 30 years has really strong customer reviews on Google that's one of the things when you asked what was appealing you know some company I Googled and it's like 2.3 Stars I'm like I'm not taking my business there so I probably don't want to buy that business um looked up the porch company the first thing I saw was you know 50 plus reviews and almost a five you know five star average like that speaks you know for itself and and hard to find a person in Nasheville that doesn't either have a porch company porch or know someone that has a porch company porch I didn't find out until after yeah obviously couldn't tell even you know my aunt and my family uh what the company was and I found out that the porch that I spent nearly all of Co on which my aunt's porch was built by the porch company like 15 or 20 years ago no way that's so great and you just as soon as you know I was able to talk about what business it was uh really hard to go through one conversation without someone saying having awareness of the porch company uh yeah so well that that must have kind of um energized your your desire to do something that was really part of the fabric of Nashville yeah not only that it's doing work in Nashville but in fact it's a brand and a product that so many people have touched and and creating really beautiful memories you know it's not like we we're fixing your toilet we're yeah creating a space for you we get emails all the time of folks you know one that just emailed in talking about how the grandkids fight over who gets asleep on the porch when they come visit and you know just really special to be able to help build those memories in community um or at least in in some small way yeah yeah fantastic Iris what did you think of the value that you thought you could bring to the business Y what did you what did you see that is not knowing construction you're going to learn it you're a problem solver so you're going to get in there and solve problems well but any other um business buyer fit here yeah I think one of the big things that the owners had realized that they just had no desire to do but was necessary was as as one of my uh key leaders would say bringing the business into this Century um so so nothing crazy but just you know accounting systems and how about we maybe stop project managing 60 projects on paper and email and text and have a project management software these things that the team was really hungry for that the owners were aware that they were hungry for but also aware that that was they had no desire to to be the ones Shepherd into that stage uh I was like I can do I can do software and technology and processes and systems all day regard like that that I can do um and and I can learn the construction aspect um so there's that piece and then I think in general just like some aspect of being ingrained in the community and being to kind of being able to carry on a lot of the Legacy that the old owners had created they have a profit sharing program they're very well known in the community um they truly like they don't just say they put their people first they truly put their people and the community first um and I knew that was something that I was able to carry on and they saw in me and that you're not going to get from you know no offense to the MBA students moving from you know Boston to buy a business but that's just not there um and so I think that was a factor that kind of resonated on both ends given that the business is 30 years old and already has such a strong brand in the community um what do you see the up side being here if you were to think about this strictly from a financial perspective and a growth perspective I mean upside in terms of being able to grow it they they literally only do porches a and like that has been a big part of their success they do them really well and they do them to near Perfection but there are so many adjacent things when folks are looking to and there's been such a push in the last few years of you know Outdoor Living Spaces uh if we even took a piece a very small piece of the puzzle of hardscaping for example you know Alan Locker great example of and I think both of us have acknowledged we have same-sized businesses doing two separate things that are very adjacent and cohesive and so where I'm sharing details about how we're building our porches and how we operate I'm asking him how he's operating about you in hardscaping is that what we're going to go to I don't know I don't know if we have a desire to grow beyond that because it's a really great solid business that doesn't need to grow to continue um being a very you know financially Sol will venture personally and for the team um but there are certainly a lot of adjacent spaces that we could play in if we so choose to play in them and we have that name and reputation that folks trust us to to be able to you know maybe take some I don't even want to say risk but try some new things um and see what kind of what we enjoy and what works and go from there only a couple months in so that's a we we're still getting our feet under us but but there's definitely an opportunity to to grow and play play around with some things if we want to you say only a couple once in so well I'm going to actually put a pin in the question I want to I want to understand what it is like now to get into a business a construction business not knowing anything about construction we'll return to that I just don't want to get too far away from the terms of the acquisition yes so can you talk about that because there was some there was some good stuff in in here yes yes and I uh I can't speak as fully transparently as I would like to be just in respect for the sellers which I know we've talked about um but a high level if you really want to dig into it and go to Alan lockd rep episode his episode we had slightly higher SD and slightly lower multiple uh is what I can can share um and then from in terms of just what I myself contributed uh we ended up putting in less than $150,000 into the deal to buy a business of that size um so we're able to get away with that the 5% um down payment with SBA which which was can't complain about and when I hear 5% SBA I I tend to think partial buy out do the sellers have retained any of the ownership of the business so no full bu full buy out and it's something worth noting that the SBA originally had told me when I we had the 10% but I didn't want to I wanted to reserve Capital if I could um and they pushed back originally to the request for 5% and ultimately said you know this originally said this is really for folks that are you know buying you know their employees they're buying out the business um we had some back and forth they had to like put it up a level to get approved and it got approved um so I don't know that that's everyone's experience but ultimately it it it worked out that way um so grateful to have a really killer lender that advocated for that um yeah Lane roads at live o if anyone's in the market highly recommend Lane roads at live o great well we we certainly know that name the live o name yep and so 5% of your own equity and uh sizable SBA loan probably typical size and then the kind of typical structure from there on out yep the um you said you wanted to put in 5% as opposed to 10% even when your lenders pushing you for it because you wanted to just have rainy day money in case personal just in general if you can put in less and feel confident that the business can pay it off why not um and and yeah the way I position it to them was I want I want to have Capital that is available if I need to or want to infuse it um so it was a balance of that but it was it just from a financial standpoint if you can put in less and feel confident in the debt coverage why not and our debt coverage was pretty stellar so I felt really confident in that that aspect of it well really Stellar debt coverage tends to mean that you got a really strong deal um okay uh okay great which say I will say people kind of you know poo poo the the project base but there are uh I kind of put it into the bucket of do what other folks aren't willing to do and there were aspects of yes it's Project based um so you get a lower multiple I we say the sellers really cared about who was taking on the business and I my read was that it wasn't a financial gain thing for them um so that definitely played a part um and then the other piece is I had to get a contractor's license during diligence and there are there are only so many buyers that have contractor's license or are willing to in the span of two weeks study for eight hours worth of exams and just figure out the process when no one really knows how to get a license in Tennessee because it's Tennessee um and so I think in that sense it put me in a strong position and and they recognized that aspect of of transferability of the business yeah putting yourself through college in three years helps you helped you you hone those skills it was it was back to the my HB my husband joked it felt like we were back in college you basically just didn't see me for two days two weeks whatever just studying but uh yeah worth it do you think that the sellers liked that you were a woman I definitely don't think it hurt um in terms of I I mean they again work with all males I don't think that was a criteria for them by any means um but I I do think there were some aspect of seeing themelves and me uh I I I think and from having gotten to know them a little bit uh not a little bit a lot bit since um so yeah I think that helped but I don't think it necessarily would have been the oh I'm choosing we have to go with a woman or I'm going with her over him because she's a woman I think it was uh first and foremost who do we think this business can be operated by and yeah it's nice there's some continuity of a woman-owned business uh actually had a buddy in Nashville who was he also met with the sellers and he was searching and he left the seller meeting and he just said you know I don't know if it transfers well to a guy like gonna be honest I don't know if it transfers well to a guy and I think there's something to be said about that um yeah what do you think he meant I I think he just meant in terms of it 30 years of being run by women the office staff that were women and the there there when I talked to all the leaders and all the team members in the business I was surprised even our Carpenters the number that said I came to work here because I like that it was woman-owned or that that was a big part of them enjoying working in a construction business there was this I don't want to say softness but construction can be has kind of a w and how it operates and I think again without fully stereotyping there was some balance that was created by being woman owned that didn't take away from it being tough work and it being construction but uh just created a culture and dynamic that uh is pretty intal to the business and who stay you know we have employees that have been here for 10 17 years um not to say they would have left if I bought the business but um yeah it's kind of interwoven into the fabric of the business yeah you've called yourself Scrappy uh maybe may maybe a euphemism for Frugal penny pinching there there were other instances of this there were other instances of this in your deal process yes yes yes I assume what you're getting at is the QV decision uh yeah I I mean I encourage others and the way I approached it was to treat my search like I was a CEO of my search business um and kind of putting the training wheels of how I operate a real business which everything is trade-offs of where you're going to put your capital and trusting your gut but relying on the numbers and contentious in my Mastermind group but I actually opted not to do a q of um and I'm not telling folks that they shouldn't do a qve but I talked to enough folks and I mean when I say that the financials lined up to a penny with tax returns that the second that I asked for a document they would have it within minutes and I'm talking back to like 19 93 um and the owners being really interwoven into the community and um my lender actually knew the owners and the owner's husband and there's all these things where it's like I understand the data and the numbers I've had folks that have financial backgrounds even more so that me look at them and I feel pretty confident there's nothing I'm going to find out in the QV that I for $20,000 that I don't already know uh or that I'm not going to have to learn anyways in the business so made that decision uh so far everything has been true and we've been on target with profitability Etc again not saying it's for everyone but everyone's search is different so you really have to make the decision that's right for yourself versus saying I'm G to follow this step one step two step three step four allocate this amount of money for this um every every deal is different and and that was a piece of my deal where I I felt like it was the right decision and I think so far so good great okay well audience um many of you will have heard Justin Willis's story uh a few a few weeks prior to when when this story with iris is um airing Justin Willis bought a bought a construction business didn't do a quality of earnings there were multiple business multiple problems with the business so it's not to say necessarily that if he had done a qov all would have been well but he feels that it probably would have caught some significant amount of the problems in the business so just um hear Iris everybody no really I I I I don't to take away NS out of 10 you should probably do a q to balance the decision make sure everybody listened to this episode and then also listen to Justin Willis's episode just for two different perspectives on construction businesses that were bought without qvs and I'll be listening to that one as well so I'm I'm super excited to I mean there's a lot to learn about success and even more probably to learn about uh failure yeah how perceived failure so yeah yeah yep um any other vendors that you wanted to call you said you'd wanted to call out uh vendors that you liked was it was it just laying at live lay from live o was by far the best decision in my entire deal process and would highly recommend her she's pretty well known in Tennessee um and just is a great resource so highly recommend okay great circling back now to the transition you're only two months in as you've said so um but how does it feel now to be in a construction business when not knowing anything about construction although you do know something about construction now because you got your contractor's license so I guess you are a GC y but but what is that uh what does that feel like at least First Impressions in many ways it feels natural I I like I think it tees into a lot of things I I do enjoy in terms of problem solving hard work um just building beautiful things and connecting with kind of the outdoor environment um I certainly there are so many things where I'm asking the dumb question in the room but that's kind of my sweet spot is I love when I I get really bored quickly so if I'm just know what's going on that's I'm probably checking out pretty quickly so the fact that everything is new to me and I'm having to figure everything out um and then it's a give and take like I I'm taking a lot from folks knowledge and experience on construction side but I have a lot to give in terms of you know creating systems and processes that are making the team's life easier um and so I think in that sense uh it just felt really good uh All Things Considered not that it's not hard you know like dealing with clients directly and being pulled into CL you know when clients are aren't happy that happens once every 20 times and then you have the five clients that are just you can't talk to them without them showering your team and compliments like that makes it all worth it um so I I wouldn't say it's easy and it's not for everyone but for me it's felt like a very natural fit in many ways and you do feel like the value that you that you predicted and hoped you'd bring to the business you are in fact going to be able to do the yeah leadership but the the systems the bringing bringing the business bus to the 21st century in terms of Technology Etc that all that the promise of that is coming true yeah and I think a lot of that I went into this expecting that we would hold on doing a lot of that for the first six months or so and I mean huge credit goes to the team where I said okay here's kind of some of the thoughts I have uh here's when we can do this we can do this now or we can do this later and resoundingly they were like if we're gonna do let's just do it now and so really in the first week you know my poor team I say poor team but did make their lives easier you know ripping out new accounting system implementing a project management software new expense management um and they have just been absolute Champs uh the folks that my the sellers thought maybe would leave in the transition just because they've been here for a long time you know they don't need to be working their office our incredible office manager and bookkeeper are here because they really love it and want to be here and thought maybe this would be the time that they kind of moved on and they have just been absolutely incredible excited and you know really yeah way way exceeded expectations um right and yeah things are taking a lot less time uh and and everyone's on the same page and can go to one place to get information and I mean we've like scratched the surface and it has already felt like we we're seeing Improvement so that's very gratifying and the obviously they project managers maybe more than more than one yeah who and so th those are kind of the the people running every really running the construction sites yep how many project managers do you have so we have in terms of true true project managers four and then we had two leaders coming into the business that kind of flex into project managers and one tough decision going into the business was not to keep one of those on so not to bring them into the new business so pretty much we and and their second in the command was out that week and out the next week uh from a project management standpoint so I really got thrown into it I I threw myself into it I should say because that was a decision I made week one and week two um and feel pretty confident yeah our team is is great and we have Carpenters that kind of Step Up into that sphere as well um and yeah it's it's a pretty impressive group of people closing out just about the business here Iris the um I just wonder so for people looking at construction businesses uh and which are plentiful uh those it's a it's a very common type of business for sale but as we talked about always talk about they're they are uh at least superficially maybe less appealing you you made this really great point that you know go where others aren't because they are superficially less appealing less competitive and maybe sell for lower multiples which which we like um I wonder if one of the criteria um to like in a construction business I'm also very ignorant about construction so I may be this may be totally off is like this specialization uh that you guys have in just porches and you've done so many porches and you probably internally maybe not you said you have a showroom so maybe there are kind of porch products you know a handful por showroom right now yeah so you have a portfolio so you guys are are actually this is going to sound like I'm belittling the prod product I'm not but you actually have widgets and your team is is is building the same widgets time and again with probably I'm sure some customizations yeah as opposed to every new project is kind of from scratch designing from scratch sort of thing is am I getting at something is there something to that or am I stretching here maybe I think like niches are great so I think there's something to be said about that I would say it's being in a niche is great where you have a really focused this is what we do and we do it well I mean we're not doing anything that other folks can't do you know like it's not that proprietary that you can't go out and build it the same way um but we do have the experience it is a b like everyone gets their own design um so it's not it's really not even our simplest porches are not really rents and repeat um so that that aspect I think um makes that less so where it's not we're just not like a volume crank it out every project we really having to sit and think and plan and decide and um so that's a factor but one thing that I would say in terms of looking at if you are looking at Construction um one really strong benefit and this is similar to Allen is we cash flow our projects so it's residential we uh take a deposit up front and the way that the the structure of the payments for the project pay for the pro the project as it goes whereas in commercial or any other even some residential um construction you are getting paid after or behind uh the expenses that you're having to pay out so that that is a piece that if I was buying another construction business which I can't say I'm in the market that's something I would look for is basically projects that cash flow themselves I'm so glad you brought that up I had meant to ask about cash flow because that's another reason that construction can be notoriously difficult you get paid in advance essentially yep it's huge and and I was extremely anxious about working capital because I listen to your podcast and everyone has problems with working capital uh and I mean that was one of the things where I I was fortunate to get working Capital At Close from the sellers from the loan and we have not touched that at all and we've it's basically been icing on on top of the money that we have been able to to generate from profits so uh I was maybe anxious about it for good reason because things can go wrong but have not had to tap into that whatsoever fantastic well great call out uh the nature of the the the working capital and a construction business um okay well let's start wrapping up Iris let's let's um my last question for you will be tie this back now you're only two months in as we we but tie this now to the initial decision to go this path and how you were in your W2 in a Tech Career and looking forward and the lack of flexibility the having a family do you feel like two months in that this is actually delivering on what you hoped it would without a doubt and then some I mean I am I I consider myself generally a like happy person and that wasn't unhappy before but I just did like feel like a new person in terms of level of happiness and fulfillment and just feeling like a level of settledness uh which is crazy to say with you know new business and a lot of you know change and newness um that I've not felt in maybe ever uh just kind of conviction that this is it this is the path that I was kind of meant to be on um and and then there's been things even more than I could kind of have dreamed of in terms of positive aspects I think I mentioned this on our pre- call but and I think a lot of folks find find this I knew that the impact it was going to feel impactful to be Prov in livelihoods for folks and and when I say like this business is 3 minutes from the house that I was literally born in in a neighborhood that I couldn't go outside to play and now I'm employing 23 people all of which are making more than my mom ever made like that is just like I couldn't have dreamed it up if I tried U yes we're two months in and I know there'll be difficult times but I just have all the confidence in the world that we will figure it out and figure it out as a team so um not for everyone but what was for for me um and for my husband and I and my family so very happy is a summary and what about the flexibility piece you're you're probably up to your eyeballs in the transition now but C can you see a world in which you you have the flexibility that you sought I mean I I am working less when than I was working at a tech startup easily uh like no question about it and that has been a shock to me I think I expected that I was going to be working with more and I've not found that um and you know folks go home at 5:00 p.m. and you know I'll go home and I'll do some email and do some work but people leave at 500m my cousin just had their third baby and I was able to leave in the middle of the day and go meet him when he came from the hospital and not feel stressed out about that and I was able to be there you know by 5:30 to help watch them in the evenings while they were at the hospital and you know previously I was getting home at 7:30 or 8 and uh yeah so have already seen that flexibility and can Envision a world in which that is conducive to you know having a family and being able to work as well like I can bring my kid to work if I want to like like I can make that decision if that's what I want to do um no one's telling me I have three months or two months and then need to return and you know Bid Farewell uh for 60 hours or 80 hours a week so um that's all things that i' I've been very happy to see kind of come into fruition um in the short time that's fantastic Aris anything we didn't hit on that you wanted to make sure to say or have we got no I I think that covers that I just I I would say I would highly encourage everyone this is not right for everyone it's not right for most people probably 99.9% of the world but if you're someone that feels like there's kind of something else out there for you and you maybe feel stuck or don't know what that is you like solving problems and working hard and kind of creating your own destiny I cannot not recommend this path more so I'm a big big proponent for the right person I should say beautiful not Tandon and if people want to get in touch with your iris questions what have you how do you like them to do that yeah more than happy to I would say probably LinkedIn is the best one for me to be able to filter through um which is just Iris LaVine uh and I think I I'm now associated with the porch company so pretty simple I think great well we'll have a link to your LinkedIn there Iris LaVine congratulations sounds like a really neat business and um just a great story of you figuring out how you're going to get the balance and flexibility you want in your life for your family and also kind of pour yourself back into your hometown pretty neat yeah thank you and thank you again because this is truly I mean you're the first thing that I recommend to folks when they're starting on this journey and I think I've spent hundreds of hours and I I The Mastermind group was a big proponent but I very strongly believe that I wouldn't be here without having all the knowledge that other folks were generous enough to share and that you were uh able to kind of share with the world so thank you for that well thank you for now paying it back or paying it forward to Hope small I'll be able to yeah it's great great interview thanks so much Iris awesome thank you I hope you enjoyed that interview make sure you subscribe to the acquiring minds Channel below we are now publishing twice a week so tons of new interviews and stories to come stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business