So we did some human trial and so within the first week they saw firmness and density improving in almost 80 to 90%. They also saw a reduction in the fine wrinkles. The technology does all the work. It takes 30 seconds. That's incredible. >> Keep in mind the patients that we were looking at it were anywhere from 33 age to 77 age group. So if you're 50 or 60 and above, you know, you have a lot of wrinkles. Uh and for them to noticeably change in less than 4 weeks is kind of unheard of. I put my face in there and the lady goes, "Oh, uh, there's not a single sun damaged spot on the whole face. It's going to trap all the nutrients for the women." So for women, I think it's going to have much much better result than the guys would have. >> Wow. It is not just superficially look making it look better. It is actually repairing the skin itself. You're listening to the human upgrade with Dave Asprey. Let's talk about peptides, except well, there's 500 different peptides that you could use. And I've written a whole big longevity book about those. So, let's talk about one peptide that maybe is the most famous one of all. And everyone's listening going, "Is he talking about BPC15?" No, it's called copper tripeptide or GHK. And this was sort of at the front and center of the collagen movement that I hope to start with bulletproof here because there is a tripeptide which means three molecules stuck together um that's inside collagen but then there's this copper GHK thing that is now in all of the skinincare serums. I've written about actually injecting it introvenously which I do not recommend guys how it's higher when people are young and it drops with time and so now it's in everything but I wanted to bring you on this time your third time Nian to talk about GHK to do kind of a master class on how you use this peptide specifically for hair and skin and maybe some other things. >> Yeah. Okay. All right. Tell me about GHK. What's the deal with that? Well, if you think about GHK, it's it's something that a body doesn't manufacture GHK, but it's a fragment of an albumin. So, it's like a it's when the albans gets broken down into this small peptides. One of the peptides is GHK. And the body holds on to the GHK combines with the copper inside your blood and become this active component that is doing all the tissue repairs and inflammations and and all it's helping the body does the repair work. >> How does the body get GHK? >> So GHK is a fragment of an album. >> Does that mean we're making the album and breaking it down or we're eating it? >> We are. When the album gets broken down, one of the byproduct is GHK. >> Got it. So we eat some protein >> and we eat some copper hopefully that we can absorb hopefully which is a problem >> right and if we do all that stuff right we make abin I mean abin breaks down with enzymes in the body and then there's some GHK left over that has a beneficial effect >> how it's the combination it's the it's a signaling molecule with with the copper uh GHK by itself does not do anything for us it has to combine with the copper for it to trigger this response And the trigger response comes into each and every cells. >> Okay. So, GHK is a signal of protein breakdown then. And when the body sees that, it says I need to make more skin and hair and collagen and connective tissue. >> Well, it's the skin and the hair is the easier part because you're physically seeing that part. What you're not seeing is all the repair that's happening inside your body >> for your fascia. >> The f Exactly. That's the most important part. But if I talk about fascia, then nobody wants to buy my product because I don't see any benefits right away. So >> yeah, unless you don't want chronic pain and you want to live a long time, then your fascia as an information plane and a movement facilitators is critically important. Right. >> Exactly. It's it's the most important thing. But people don't want to talk about those kind of things. People don't want to if there's joint pain, hey, can I just rub on some Icy Hot or one one of those products that can take the pain away, >> but it's not rebuilding the cartilage or re rebuilding all the soft tissues over there. And so GHK is very critical for all those components to rebuilding from body inside out. >> So it turns out then that maybe BPC-157 which is the famous heal really fast peptide that a lot of us have talked about maybe that isn't nearly as useful if you don't have GHK present and BPC has limited effects on hair and skin if any. Right. >> Exactly. BBC is one of those peptides that produce inside your gut. uh and it it's great for gut healing if maybe uh but if you look talking about the whole body uh or skin being the largest organ in humans it needs a lot more than just BPC 157 I don't think BBC 157 has any effect on skin at all >> with the GHK copper it does have skin benefits but more importantly it is it is not just superficially look making you look better it is actually repairing the skin itself even in the deeper layers. >> In the deeper layers and that's what we want. >> What happens if you eat GHK? >> I don't know. I would assume that if you take GHK, it's going to get broken down by the gut. >> Yeah, the enzymes in the gut should break it down. Break it down. Most peptides aren't that orally active. >> Yeah. And so that's what I'm guessing. Again, I do not have any studies to back it up as of yet, but that's what I'm guessing is what's happening. >> All right. Well, you're well known, at least in in this community, because you invented a new way to get almost anything in through the skin. Lots of followers understand liposomes because I I've been in biohacking since day one. And liposomes are these little balls of fat that allow you to to encapsulate some compound and bring it in. You can take them orally, you can use them topically. >> But you did something totally different that is far far more powerful. Tell me about that. So polysaccharides, sugar molecules is what we have found out is is a new delivery system. Now liposomes, please. It it's an amazing system. Yeah, it works. It's really good system. I know this is a system for peptides and that's what I I want to come. So my first product was the glutathione the GH GSH peptide and it just just wonders and so based on said that technology that success we now look at all the different peptides right now the sugar molecules the best part about sugar molecules is that the body needs sugar >> but this is a different kind of sugar this isn't just standard glucose that people need >> no no these are polysaccharides the the scientific term is cycllo it's dextrins >> cycllo is a cyclic form of dextrins there are cluster forms of dextrin There's all all different types of dextrin molecules. Some are completely inert and a couple of them are toxic and FDA has regulations on those as well. But some of them, most of them are completely uh inert and have no concerns whatsoever. >> And so you found a unique form and when you bind that to a molecule like glutathione, you showed in the last episode that you can take some of your gluterl and it smells a little bit like sulfur, which is fine. So does the liposomaal form. But you put it on and 30 seconds later it's it's it's absorbed and you can wash off whatever's left if you want to. Maybe a minute, but it's a very short period of time. >> And I just do it like on my thorax here. >> Y >> and what happens then is the levels inside the cells go up way more than they would with liposomes or even an IV. >> Well, yeah, that was the first thing, right? So >> So we know it works. >> We know it works. There's some studies that have been done that have shown that actually even the intravenous form of glutathione was getting broken down by the human body and only cysteine was getting absorbed. Oh wow. And then cysteine was being used to produce own and digous form of glutathione. And so yes, it does. They all work, but we have to know how it works and why it works. Because if we know the how and the why, we can target systems and medications on on how it's supposed to do. But when I found out that this was actually getting broken down and the body's just using absorbing cyine and cysteine is rate step of of this production I said okay if that's the case if I give you other molecule where the enzymes are not going to be rate step then we're just injecting some peptides they may not be doing any work for us >> and so that was the concern that I had right cysteine is something that we don't consume in our diet very heavily so it was easy to give you cysteine type product and in your body basic glutathione. >> Yeah. And guys, if you're listening, you know glutathione is critically important for your liver and there's all kinds of reasons you want to take it. The problem is we used to just take NAC in a cysteine, >> but it's rate limited and it increases your body's ability to make it. And what we're finding out is that even the IV glutathione and the liposomaal glutathione has limited effectiveness, but is still better than just NAC, we think. But the form that you invented because you're a pharmacologist is something that gets into the cells directly without having to be broken down into cyine. So that was kind of the the big pharmacist test about does this polysaccharide thing you have actually work and it it is superior to anything. So then I'm like what else can we put in the body? And we've been talking ever since our first interview a couple years ago uh and at the biohacking conference what can we do? What can we do? I'm like give me some peptides. Give me some peptides. And you're a total pro at peptides. You've been doing them for 20 years, right? >> Yep. >> So, you sent me some sort of we'll say I think it was like one of those those white label printer things uh GHK serum >> and this is the first production bottle of it, right? >> Yes. The very very first one. >> So, this is the Aro copper tripeptide serum. And it looks kind of like a blue pearl when use I don't even know how this bottle works because I have the the prototype bottle you sent me. There we go. It's a dropper kind of thing. And I've been putting it specifically on my hair. >> And I'm noticing a color shift that it's less gray than it has been. And you could say, Dave, you're a longevity guy. Hair's not supposed to go gray. There's multiple reasons it goes gray. And one of them is loss of copper. Yeah. And I have an issue where genetically I need a ton of zinc. If I don't take enough zinc, then my mitochondria don't work. And if you take lots of zinc, it pushes copper out. You can't absorb copper. So I'm like, do I want weak mitochondria and brown hair, or do I want strong mitochondria and gray hair cuz I'm zinc deficient? >> You have a delivery system that gets the copper back where it goes that bypasses all the zinc in my gut. So I'm super stoked on this. But okay, so for hair, that's color of hair. And this may be a way for some types of gray to go away, but there's other ones that are caused by by SOD or lack of SOD and it's hydrogen peroxide. And there's some genetics. Like there's all all sorts of reasons. There's like three reasons, but there's also like a thickening of hair. And just to be clear, guys, I also use OS1, which just came out. I'm seeing changes from that. I'm also using this before the OS1. So, I think this is making a big difference. What have you seen in the experiments you've done with the copper tripeptide oro stuff? So we did some human trials because like everything else before I launch any product I had to do human trials to see what what the heck am I going to get out of this thing right and so within the first week first week they saw firmness and density improving in almost 80 90% of the people >> just from putting it on their face >> just putting on the face that's the first thing they noticed not the hair thing I'm putting over my face hair is so so subjective things but by the end of the fourth week >> the same people besides those two things they also saw a reduction in the fine wrinkles and fine lines and wrinkles. >> And this is this has only been 4 weeks. Now, keep in mind the patients that we were looking at it were anywhere from 33 age to 77 age group. So, if you're 50 or 60 and above, you know, you have a lot of wrinkles. Uh, and for them to noticeably change in less than 4 weeks is kind of unheard of unless you take something like injections and things like that. So, this Yeah. So, this was very very powerful. But going back to GHK, the reason this is becomes more effective is because it's if it's produced from albamin which is produced in the liver, if they take glutathione to cleanse the liver out >> the albamin gets better, the GHK works better. >> Interesting. >> But in your case, I did not know that you take so much zinc uh and zinc does deplete copper. So if that's the case, there's a bigger issue for you. But most people don't have copper deficiency. Most people have either catalace or super oxid this issues where they have too much hydrogen peroxide. That's what they're causing the the the the grayish of the hair. >> Yeah, the gray hair from too much hydrogen peroxide and inability to turn it off. So I I thought maybe that's my issue. This was, you know, years ago and I started getting some gray. So I took a bunch of SOD, which is the enzyme that turns off hydrogen peroxide. >> Unfortunately, antioxidants, but especially that one, they turn off oxidation. Oh, and the engine of life is based on oxidation. >> Yes. >> So, that's what your your mitochondria do. So, when I took SOD, like I thought I had chronic fatigue before, cuz I did, but this was worse. It it was like running on 10% of my energy just first 3 days when I took a couple SOD caps. I'm like, all right, I'm not deficient in antioxidants. I might be deficient in oxidation back then. So, I don't think my gray hair was contributed to by that. And it got worse during CO because I cranked up my zinc because my genetic testing showed I was deficient and my energy is better than ever. So I'm in this weird limbo. I need the copper. And you have the most effective way to get copper into my hair and my skin that I think exists. >> And of course it helps with wrinkles and it probably helps with hair. But I'm happy I get that zinc and I'm happy to get that copper because of the zinc issue. Um and I do some other oral copper now too. this is a new thing and I felt the difference and I see the difference. >> So that's what happened to me personally. >> I started using this in January myself early this year and I used it for about four or five weeks or six weeks in a row and I was getting I was in Miami was they were giving me an award for some some technology uh innovation. So they gave me an award for that. So I was there and of course they stick me in this in this photo booth. I said hey Dr. Patel let me check your let me see do you use any sunscreen? I don't use any sunscreen or sunblock ever in my life. Oh. >> Oh, you kind of do have brown skin. You have it built in. It's not fair. >> Exactly. So, I said, "Let me check out. I'm sure you have some sun damage. I'm from California, so I'm in the sun all the time." I said, "Okay, let me let's check it out." I put my face in there. And the lady goes, "Oh, uh, there's not a single sun damaged spot on the whole face. Not even one one little prickly." Right. A lot of clogged pores, which is I I understand cuz I only use uh I don't use any soap. >> Yeah. you know, but the thing is I don't have a zero sun damaged spot. And that's when I realized that I only used for 6 weeks. >> Wow. >> And this thing changed the morphology completely. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah. >> So it if you're concerned listening uh am I selling this? I guess like it I you are one of the smartest guys I've met when it comes to delivery systems topically. if I if I'd say the smartest and you've been doing this for 25 30 years. >> Yes. >> And so we can go so deep on these nerdy conversations and this isn't very nerdy compared to when we were sitting at the table beforehand. Uh and I'm I firmly believe that your uh polysaccharide delivery system is a fundamental thing that we need to get things into the body so we can just get the results we want. So the skin is more permeable and it's a better delivery system than pills for a lot of things. And you proved it with glutathione with glutter your kind of hero product and now you're proving it with these other compounds that you're putting in. >> So I I only talk about stuff that I see and I believe and that I use. And since I got to be a beta tester on the stuff and we we talked about it over the kitchen table a long time ago. I'm I think I am selling it just in the the point that I want you to know that this technology is available. But I also have some concerns. >> And one of the concerns is that okay if our skin is that permeable, what happens when people put just crappy sunscreen on? Like talk about that. >> Oh boy. Um thanks thanks for bringing this point up because this is that's what my concerns are. Mhm. When I make a product and it's going through your skin, I'm thinking about, okay, if if I'm making a skin skin permeable to all these ingredients, what else is going inside? >> Yeah. It's like a skin IV. >> Skin IV. And that's what to me is more concerning than giving you a product because I have to make sure there's no impurities in there. Mhm. >> Sourcing of sourcing of raw material is so difficult for us because we want to make sure that there is no mold, there's no bacteria, there's no pyrogens, there is no heavy metals cuz anything that's in that product is going to go in. >> And so to me that was the biggest thing and you're absolutely right. How much stuff are we lathering on on our body that we don't need to have it? >> And we know with some of the studies on sunscreen that it's entering the blood within an hour. these ingredients that are that cause cancer. Almost like the old movie Idiocracy where people are buying sunscreen that that's warned that it causes cancer. They're actually real. They're doing that. So, uh I'm very careful at what I put on my skin. My general rule is don't put it on unless I would eat it. >> Yes. >> Is there anything in your oral formulations that I wouldn't eat? >> No. I'll go one step ahead. I'll eat certain things that I will but I I still want to put them on my skin >> because your your gut can literally digest a lot of crap right it can but your skin is becomes very permeable to anything and everything. >> Wow. >> So to me I'm very careful about my skin care very very careful because plus the technology is such that it's it is actually getting inside your skin cells. So that way we we have to be very careful on how we do that part. >> Okay. >> So I can talk about the ingredients. >> Yeah. Let let's talk about what's actually in there because a lot of people are like, "Oh, it's gluten-ree." I'm like, "Well, it's not cyanide free, so who cares about the gluten?" Yeah. >> So, your products are super clean, but what's in them? >> So, for example, like um let's talk one of the skincare, which is I have a vitamin C product for example. >> So, vitamin C, escorbic acid is what we use, which is the strongest form of vitamin C. It's not those uh pseudo vitamin C like what you eat in in in the foods. It's not the same. This is pure escorbic acid. Now escorbic acid in America comes from corn. >> Corn and black mold. >> Well, that's all mold, right? And so I cannot have that for my consumers. I cannot have that part. So we had to source an injectable grade material from tapioca which is completely free of metals, pyrogens, mold. >> Wow. So this is actually very hard to find. I have formulated ascorbic acid products. It's almost impossible to get clean vitamin C. >> It's very hard. >> And I I don't recommend orally highdose vitamin C because of oxalate, but you need some vitamin C in order to be healthy. You just don't need too much. >> No. >> So, and using it topically, you see huge results from it. What does vitamin C do to the skin different from your GHK product? >> So, vitamin C is a stimulant. It's it's not an antioxidant. People say vitamin C is an antioxidant. I I said chemically it's not true. >> Wow. But it >> is Pauling is so mad right now. >> No, he's not mad. No, he's not mad. But he did he he did put us on the right path right now, right? Because what he did was at low concentration vitamin C is actually regenerating oxidized glutathione in your body. And so that's that's how it's working as an antioxidant. But in reality, it's it's a it's a stimulant and what it stimulates is collagen production under your skin. >> Oh wow. >> Right. >> So you need in your skin maybe more than in your kidneys. >> Exactly. And that's why this if you take the topical vitamin C that we have created, you don't need to take any supplements ever because it gives vitamin C. Yeah. For vitamin C because you get which because you get you get all the stuff in there and it's plus is all the free of all this junk. >> You know, you're you're confusing the hell out of me right now. I am. >> I'm sorry. because you you send me these research bottles ahead of time so I know what they look like and then you come out with beautiful packaging and like this doesn't look like the stuff on my bathroom counter cuz I got it ahead of time. So it's the orange one and citroine but it looks like this but mine does look like this cuz I got the early version. So this is vitamin C and glutathione combined. >> Well this one is vitamin C glutathion is is there in every one of them because that's how we used to uh to get the dexton's technology activated. >> So interesting. So you have to have a little bit of glutathione to kind of get the cell like ooh that's mine and then the dextrin helps to get the ingredient in. >> That's it. That's what >> super cool. So this this is what order would I eat? >> And this is 25%. If you don't realize vitamin C is very very strong but the way the technology works it it has been clinically proven to be non-erritating and non-comdogenic. >> Okay. >> And it's it's like you put it on just just disappears. >> So I I have a question about this. I have the GHK. Um I have the the non beautiful bottle, the one the the the R&D >> only you got earlier. I don't know how you got it but >> yeah. Well, you know, I was part of the test. Okay. >> So, I I have the copper tripeptide which I've been using and I have your citrine the vitamin C formula. I don't know which one to use first. >> Okay. So, all the serums goes first. Either vitamin C or glutathione or whatever. >> This one the copper peptide goes in between. Okay. >> The second product because now it's just enhancing some of because this is >> serum then peptides. >> Serum then peptides >> and then the cream goes over if it's if the creams are all >> okay. And and just in the interest of full transparency here >> um I use a couple different creams. >> That's okay. >> So I I've I use OS1. I use um the young goose. >> Uh and uh sometimes I use a couple other ones. I don't use the same ones every day. Um, but the copper tripeptide since I first got it. I'm like, "This stuff is magic." So, um, now I use citrine first, then copper tripeptide. And I'm weird because I'm a biohacker and people send me all the cool stuff. I have like five other bottles of serums I use that often. Is there any harm of just like, okay, I'm going to put on the the dextrin based stuff from Oro >> and then I put on whatever else I've got. Does it matter the order if I just have a lot of stuff? >> Yes. Yes, it does. The dextrin product goes first. Dextrin first. Okay. >> Dextrin first because I'm not sure what the other products have in there. >> Okay. That might block it. >> That No, if there is something in there that doesn't doesn't need to go inside your skin, this may push it in. >> Oh, okay. Got it. >> This may push it in. >> So, my oil valet, you don't recommend that. >> I'm kidding. I don't use that stuff. Sorry. Oil. Uh, no. >> But what we always want to make sure that the anything that we use uh my serums goes first. Then you can add anything else on top of it. I'm okay with it. >> Got it. And so you could be listening to this and if you're a woman, you're like, "Oh my god, that's so interesting." If you're a guy, you're like, "Dave is clearly gay." >> And I'm just going to tell you actually, no, I am planning to live to 180 and when I'm 180, I would still like to be dating or in a relationship where I'm very attractive. So I just think taking care of your skin is a really good long-term plan. It is the largest organ in the body. And I'm also lazy and I probably wouldn't do all of this uh if I didn't get all the stuff that just magically arrives. But I would do your copper tripeptide 100% and I would do the vitamin C and probably a couple other things. But most guys it's like you wash your face once a day and you put on one and I'm going to say you probably should put on two things and maybe ought to be these two. Maybe you want to put on the the you have a cream as well, right? What's the cream that you use? >> So cream is similar things. What we did was we had to take all the ingredients that we needed. Yeah. >> And I had to put them in some in serum and some in the creams. >> And like you, I'm the same guy. I'm the same thing. I don't like to put too much products on my face. For 50 years, I didn't put anything. >> And then all of a sudden, I started putting glutath on my face and next thing I put GHK copper on my face. And the face cream that I created, this one, this one is particular with CoQ10 and uh uh DMA and carnosine. And it's just a is a it's a bieptide. It's a two amino acid chain peptide, right? It's a simple stuff. >> Anything that's simple and good, I I'll make it for you guys. >> So, I'm a old school longevity guy, right? And a lot of younger biohackers have probably not even heard of DMAE. >> But if you go back to the '9s and and maybe a little bit of the early as DMAE was really really a powerful longevity molecule and it just kind of lost its cool factor even though it's really efficacious. And CoQ10, I think everybody knows about that. It's necessary. You get that and your skin cells are going to work better. >> And then carnosine, it really helps with cross-linking of collagen. So, this is a a potent set of ingredients. Yep. >> Right. So, that's one thing I just every time we get to nerd out, your selection of ingredients is 10 out of 10 every time. And and then you're saying, well, why would I just put that on my skin when I could like make it like an IV with all this tech? So, I just I love our conversations because you don't suck around with your formulations. It's it's it's really impressive and I don't say that lightly. >> I want to make life simple for everybody. As if you're going to live to 180, you can have too many routines that you cannot fulfill yourself for the rest of your life. >> You're going to make Brian Johnson mad. Don't say that. >> Oh my god. >> Just kidding, Brian. >> Yeah. But you know what it's you want to have less. You want to have less so you can enjoy life better, >> right? And so my job is that if I can put everything into one, >> I'll do that in a heartbeat. Why couldn't we mix your copper GHK and the and the other and the vitamin C? Can't they go in the same serum? >> It can. It can. >> I pay twice as much to use less. >> Eventually, that might be the choice that I I'll make it. >> Like the one serum to rule them all. >> Yeah, exactly. I don't know if that's going to happen, but >> it cost like 300 bucks, but >> Well, cost is not the problem. I would pay it. >> Yeah. People pay the price, but what people do not want is a routine that takes them 5 hours to do. >> Right. I would pay more to use less things. Exactly. And so my goal is to create less and less and less as possible, but make it more impactful. >> Oh, that's cool. All right. So, we're aligned on that. And I truly appreciate just the way you think about this. >> I want to ask some more detailed skin care questions. Okay. So, we can really teach people more about copper tripeptide and all that. What about retinoids or retinol and copper tripeptide? Are they safe to use together? So I personally do not like retinols or retinoid products in combination with the GHK. Actually I don't like those retinid products at all. They're just little too toxic. The the cell turnover is much much faster than uh in the normal cell turnovers. And I need the cell turnover at a slower pace anyways. As you get older, you need that layer to protect your skin. Okay. So that that's one of the reasons. >> So you get younger looking skin because you get rapid turnover from retinols, but then you're probably going to wear the skin out. Basically, the skin gets thinner as you get older because of that. And if it gets thinner and it gets more blemishes, guess what? They prescribe you prescription retinoids now, make it even faster. >> Uh, and so I see the vicious cycle over there that that may not be the right option for a lot of my consumers. >> Okay. Is there a difference in the type of GHK you can get? I've seen some that's really cheap online. I've seen a lot that doesn't look like I would want to inject it. I've seen some that's injectable that I have injected. How do you know what's a good GHK and how do you pick yours? >> So GH again it's a it's a tripeptide and it's uh they make different grades but you there's a they don't have food grade but they do have a topical grade and they have an injectable grade. >> Okay. >> Now the only difference between those two grades is that topical because they assume that nothing is going to go through your skin. So they make it uh >> not that pure. They have mold in there. They have some bacteras in there, pyro in there, which is on a normal sense doesn't matter to you at all. And it is is it's not 99% 100% pure. It's probably 97 98% pure, which is not so bad, but still pretty good. >> Okay. So topical GHK has 2% impurities in it. >> 1 to 2%. Yes. >> Okay. And versus injectables. >> Mhm. >> Are basically metalfree, pyrogen free. Uh maybe not free, but they are. very very small amount. Uh they're free of bacteras and molds because we have to test them out in the lab that if anything grows in that we cannot use it, right? >> Yeah. Cuz it will grow in your bottle, right? >> Well, it will grow in the when when you inject them, right? And so >> those are the different grades and the cost difference is like 4x. If something cost you let's say 10 bucks, another one will cost you 40 bucks. That's a 4x price and difference. Without technology, we the way we're driving this products inside your skin, I cannot use topical grade cosmic grade materials. >> So, you're spending four times more on injection grade raw materials. I have to. >> It's because your technology is like injecting it on skin. >> I have to. I have to. I don't. >> That's important. And guys, this isn't the cheapest skinincare stuff you'll ever see. And that's why because it it's so potent. And I respect that you're going for purity cuz you could make a product that would work with your technology using topical grade. It would just drive 2% impurities in like you injected them which >> exactly and just for the pricing issue we're going to say it is expensive but at the same time >> to bring the cost down >> we brought the whole manufacturing inhouse. >> Okay. >> We brought the whole technology inhouse so we can go from straight to manufacturing to the consumers with no middleman. >> That helps a lot. So that that that did help a lot. Otherwise this product will be basically unbearably expensive. >> Wow. And as it is, compared to Botox and compared to half the stuff that people buy, it's not expensive, but it's also not, you know, a $25 jar of facial goop, >> right? >> That's right. >> Nothing wrong with the goop, but >> you ever see like Korean snail serums for the face? Like snail juice? >> Yep. >> What What is that a good thing? What is that? >> You know, the K beauty is so popular right now. They have all kinds of animal proteins that they've been using for their face and a simple molecule like GHK or glutathione which is only three amino acids is impossible to get inside your skin. >> What happens if there's a 15, 20, 50 or 100 amino acid chain pep uh peptides >> it will never get through your skin. You know what I like to do sometimes I feel like I don't really want to do curls. I just get a ribeye and I just tape it to my arm and then I know it's going to absorb because I mean that. Okay. It's same idea, right? >> Same idea. And so, uh I know it's snail oil in in my age call snake oil. That was snail oil now. >> Snail oil. There we go. And I maybe there's some polysaccharides in the mucus from snails, but I don't really I'm not into that. Yeah. It It seems kind of gross. >> Okay. Um not that I wouldn't. If it was proven to work, there's that. >> Exactly. If it's proven to work, then it's okay. Mhm. But >> I will admit that a long time ago I met this lady in Bellingham. Um she was Asian and she had really really good skin and she was 80 or something and she said, "Oh, all I do I think it was at like a GNC or somewhere and she says, "All I do is I wash my face with shampoo every day because I don't want to strip the oils and then I put this this snail goop on my face." And so I ordered some and I used it a few times. like this is just gross and I never used it. So I'm willing to I have tried that but I'm not I just don't think it's likely to work. So maybe it's my ego maybe it's our ego but your scientific view is that the molecules are too big to get in and you know because you studied water channels in the skin and you develop something and it gets in. So I'm going to go with >> right now as I said we only have three or four or five amino chain peptides only. We have not worked with anything bigger than that yet. >> So you can't put big molecules in right now. >> Not yet. >> Okay. And you'll probably get that tech going >> eventually. I I mean you're Oraura Wellness is kind of like a Tesla or a SpaceX kind of a thing for the scan. You're really approaching this technically and you're going and doing it in a way that no one's done before. It's it's kind of cool. >> Well, that's what because I'm a pharmacist and my training is not a business. My training is creating products that I would use for myself and for my family first, >> right? >> And so I'm taking this in a completely different approach. I said, "Hey, I want to live to 180 like you, but if I want to live to 180, I need tools in my bags that can take me there." >> Yeah, no kidding, right? >> Yeah. >> And we know the tools that are pharmaceutical tools are not going to get you there. >> Now, you look like you're not an expert in hair. >> No, I'm not. >> If you're listening to the audio, there might be a lack of hair on Nan's head. >> U But you have looked at research on GHK and hair thickness, hair growth. What have you found? >> I mean the research is is compelling >> is overwhelming compelling. It's strong that GH is absolutely great for uh boosting your hair follicle. Uh again maybe I'm point of no return. I don't but I'm not given a hope yet. So I am been using for about 8 to 9 months right now. Uh I'm working on different formula right now like you suggested me earlier. I know we collaborated on something else in the past. And so I'm making some products in my lab and I'm testing my myself out because I can't go worse than what I already am right now. So >> So if you can restore your hair, you're like me. I'm the worst case to be healthy as, you know, a 300 lb computer hacker with chronic fatigue, right? Uh so if I can do this and if you can grow hair, similar similar slope of the curve, hard to do >> is impossible to do on myself, but I am I'm still working on it right now. >> Let's do it. You know what they have? They have those bowling ball washers. Have you seen those things? I think we need to get one of those and just soak it with your formulas. Every morning you stick your head in there. You just kind of like like rub them in really hard for you so you don't have to spend the time rubbing it in. >> Well, the thing is that the technology does all the work. It takes 30 seconds. You see? >> Okay. It's not that much. You don't need to. >> I don't need to do that. >> Okay. The real question behind that is is like scrubbing into my scalp doesn't do anything. If I just put the drops on, rub it a bit. That's it. >> That's it. >> Okay. >> That's it. Right. Yeah. So, I was actually spending more time kind of trying to really get it in, but I need >> it. Should get it in because uh you have much more hair than I do. So, if you just I just put it on straight up and it takes me 30 seconds. It's already gone. >> Well, that's that's cuz you have lots of scalp available, but I have some hair on there. So, if I like drip it into the parts where it's thin or it's gray and just >> and I just kind of rub it a bit, but I don't have to rub it for a minute even. There's no point. >> Ah, it will go away. It will go away. Yeah, it'll go pretty fast. >> Yeah, this tech is cool. It's It takes a lot of work out of it cuz I I've used scalp oils and crap. I just have this little like hair massagery thing. I have little fingers and >> I don't have to do any of that. Okay, that's cool. >> No, because you don't need you don't need blood flow. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> You don't need blood flow for it to work. >> No. >> Okay, that's a good thing cuz that's one of the causes of baldness is lack of blood flow. >> Exactly. >> That's interesting. So, pairing it with like a nitric oxide uh capsule isn't going to do anything for your delivery, but it's probably going to be an additive effect on >> Yeah. Exactly. So, nothing else that can be added to the glutathione products as as an oral supplement. And it works. Congestion works very very well. >> Okay. That is amazing. >> Uh what about women? Is there a difference? We talked a lot about guy baldness and all. >> This is actually more for women than the guys because women baldness is nutrition deficiency, >> right? >> Versus guys is sometimes hormonals and sometime is other other aspects of the whole >> hormone oxidation and blood flow or other things, right? And so women in the in the past I used to almost change the women's diet and the hair loss goes away and they feel better >> get their cortisol down and get their nutrition up and they're good to go. >> And with the copper infusing right by the hair follicle is going to trap it's going to trap all the nutrients for the for the women. So for women I think it's going to have much much better result than the guys would have. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Can you put things like iodine or selenium in there because it feels like there's a little bit of thyroid going on even in the hair. I've seen topical thyroid help hair growth as well. >> So selenium being a heavy metal answer is no. >> Oh because it's just too much. >> It's too much too fast. I respect that because they out they eat you four Brazil nuts a day and you're done. >> I question that. The Brazil nuts are scary cuz they go from zero to overdose and they're almost all moldy. Yeah. Well, that's >> I take seleno uh >> methionine >> selenomthionine just a couple drops and that's okay too. But yeah, again I like foods better if you can get some good quality foods. So that's one of them. >> Uh and for iodine, iodine is a proxidant. >> Mhm. >> And the technology it it breaks apart my complexes. >> Oh, so it shred your stuff. >> I already tried that bummer. Okay. >> I already tried that part. >> All right. Okay, that makes sense. So then you might want to do some just make sure you have enough iodine. It's in our minerals 101 formula. It's easy to get orally. Okay. >> And you probably won't get enough in your salt anyway. So iodiz salt is better than nothing. But I have much better salts that we can get. >> That's right. >> Okay. Let's talk about copper inside the body. Things like ceruopplasm or serum copper. What are the different stores of copper in the body and how does your tech affect those? >> We have not studied that that effects on the on the serum copper levels at at this point. What we have found out is a lot of people are copper deficient in the first place. >> Like I know I am. >> Yeah. A lot of people copper deficient. And the reason is because there's a since this was back in the mid '90s. >> Mhm. >> The zinc supplement came out to for the for the for the treatment for cold. >> Right. >> Right. I was a student back then. I remember that part. I said, "Oh my god, this is going to cure uh influenza. So mean no more vaccines and no more of the influena we to worry about." So just take this uh zinc pills and you're done, >> right? >> Zinc usage has literally gone off the chart over the last 25 everything. People just throw it in for no reason. People get zinc overdoses all the time. >> That's what we are facing right now. So we have actually copper deficiency in most patients that we work with. >> Wow. So I've seen lots of people including me where you increase copper supplement intake but then you get extracellular copper go up which is a toxic heavy metal. >> That's right. But it doesn't go into the cells. So you need it in your cells and you get toxins outside the cells. So how do we get copper into the cells? That's why we have technology. >> I know, right? >> Now we have now we have now we did it. We did not have it before. Again, Dave, you are one of those few people that outside the medical community got this early on product cuz for the two years we will only be giving to doctors for for using on themselves, using on the patients and things like that. And the results were just overwhelming. I said when are you going to get this product available to us? Now my patients are looking for this product. Uh and it's not because of the GHK for beauty purposes whether that's uh that's a good thing to have to have have look to make make you look good but the copper is actually replenishing your body's own copper reserves >> and it's just a small amount. It's a trace amount. >> You don't need much. >> You don't need much. You don't need to take copper supplements. >> There is a copper supplement that has some efficacy. It's called copper nascin and I wrote about it in uh I think in superhuman my longevity book. >> Okay. >> Or possibly that was in smarter not harder. There's good evidence for it for mitochondrial function and all that. It's relatively expensive and it it might get into cells better than other things. I don't know that it works in the presence of copper. But what you've got is a direct water channel that goes into the cells regardless. But if I put it, you know, my face and hair, uh, is it going to be systemic or is it only in those tissues? >> Well, the thing is eventually gets systemic if if, uh, if the local places where you're applying it gets saturated. >> Okay. So, I just keep saturating my scalp so I have nice thick hair and my face have wrinkles and it's eventually going to go systemic. >> Systemic. Yep. How many uh, dropper fulls, how many times a day do I need can I use in order to drive that process faster? cuz I like to have enough copper everywhere. >> So, yes. Uh, so personally, I use a whole dropper full. >> Maybe two, >> maybe two. Two dropper fulls. >> Two dropper fulls once a day. >> Once a day in the morning. I don't I don't use in the evening. I just don't have time. >> I do one in the morning, one in the evening. Okay. >> Yeah. But typically people use it twice a day. >> Could I just take like six of them and smear all over my body to get my levels up for a month? >> You can. >> So, okay. I'm going to try that. I'll just like bathe in it for a little while because I know I'm deficient. >> Yeah. Don't put in cold plunges. Okay. Just >> cuz it'll turn blue. >> It'll turn blue. >> So good. >> Uh but yeah, I mean you can apply uh twice a day. We we just generally recommend putting five to 10 drops twice a day, but you can apply more if you have to. >> Something else I want to ask you about with GHK. So I have like, you know, I have I have abs, but I also have See those stretch marks right there, >> right? So they're pretty deep. And that's from when I was obese. If I put GHK on those, are they going to still do anything? Stretch marks are total to do. >> I think they're hard. There's there's a couple of things that I I've seen it works. Okay. >> One is iodide >> on the stretch marks. Just paint it on the lugals. >> Uh well, lugals 1 to 1 to 10 solution. Okay. >> Not straight lug. It's too toxic, right? >> Okay. >> So, 1 to 10 solution. >> Like what percent iodine do you want? >> So 1 ml lugals to 10 ml water. >> Lugals comes in anywhere from 5 to 20%. >> So I go to 20%. Uh-huh. >> But I only put 1 ml of that one, like 10 mls of water, >> which puts you down about 1%. >> Exactly. >> 1% iodine solution. >> 1% solution. Just rub it in. >> You know, they'll break up all the if there's any scars over there, they'll break it up. The GH copper is to smoothing it out. >> Okay. So, you do the iodine, let it soak in for a while, like wash it off or something, and then put on >> the brother. >> Okay, I'll try that. I mean, I I I think I look pretty good with my shirt off on my book cover, but I do have stretch marks. They don't bother me too much, but I'm a biohacker. I'm like, what if I could just get rid of those? What if, you know, what if I had the side abs of a 20-year-old who wasn't obese? That would be fun. >> We have done that for a lot of those C-section scar marks people that I have that cuts and things like that. >> Interesting. And all the scar tissues to break it up with with lugals. >> Okay. >> Or SSKI, one of those. It's a commercial. It's a prescription item, but >> Okay. OTC. >> Lugalls. And probably a little shock wave on there would be good, too. >> Oh, yeah. Of course. >> All right. I'm going to play around with that. That sounds like fun. Can I stack your new GHK serum with laser treatments, uh, fraal laser, uh, micro needling, all the other stuff that people do to their faces? >> So, micro needling may not be necessary because of GH is already delivering that part. So, that's not an issue at all. If you're using fractionals or CO2s or laser treatments, that is actually increase oxidative stress on your skin temporarily, which is which is not a bad thing. >> Yeah. Having GHK will will basically just smooth out a little bit. What you really need is the glutathione to reduce oxy stress after the laser treatments or better yet the most of the times that people doctors are using right now are using it before the laser treatments. So the oxy stress is not increasing high enough so they can get the laser treatment done without the side effects. >> Oh cool. So you pre-treat with RO and then you do the procedure and then you get better results. better results because less less painful less less problems. >> Okay. Any studies on GHK and hyperpigmentation? >> Um not that I know of. I don't think so. Uh uh there should not be any concern for hyper pigmentation with GHK or glutathione or citrine or any of those products that we make. Okay. >> But in fact some of the hyperpigmentations if it's not hormonal >> Mhm. >> that's insults because of toxicities >> or maybe from sun exposure >> for sun exposure. the same toxicities, right? Either either by sun or by chemicals or by >> some sort of insult to the skin. >> Insult to the skin. >> Oxy stress can be reduced by glutathione. >> So those are easy to get rid of it. And it's not like pigmentation. It's basically it's that overactive melanin pretty much. >> Okay, I know we talked about this before, but why do people use glutathione for butthole bleaching? >> We did talk about this last time. Oh my god, we had so many questions on that. >> I know. I I was fascinated to hear that this exists because when I started talking about glutathione, a few people were like, "Did you know they do it in Korea?" I'm like, "I've never spent that much time looking at my butthole." >> But apparently I did suntan it a few times in the New York Post cuz it was funny. But >> why is glutathione in that case reducing pigmentation? Cuz I don't think people's buttholes are exposed to that many insults. >> No, it's not. But u all the gent genital area is darkened. some people some people but it's not >> right again I'm not the I'm not the doctor to identify the cause the real cause of why that is hyperpigmentations over there >> but if it's natural then it's not going to reduce it down >> okay got it >> if it's not natural if it's just artificially become >> friction based or something >> friction something happened we don't know friction based I'm not sure >> sorry that was my inner seventh grader coming like I have no idea but I'm really looking for the mechan mechanism of glutathione being a bleaching agent because it doesn't make any sense to me. >> Yeah, it's not a bleaching agent, but it does reduce the the overactive melanin production. >> Okay. So, the the cells calm down that we're making overactive melanin. Okay. Melanin, that makes great sense to me. And I did notice I haven't checked, you know, I do inject melanotan >> um as part of my sun protection thing. And you I do get a few more freckles or the freckles that exist get darker. I don't know if I'm getting more of them. >> Um so, I I definitely see a difference from it, but not a big one. Oh, okay. But you know, you apply glutathione on on on your hands then. >> Yeah, that's a good idea. Okay. So, I need to use more of your glutathione. I just mostly it goes on my chest and stomach because I figure that's closer to my liver. Is that is that a good >> proximity has nothing to do with it. See, that's a thing, right? If I spray my nose, it goes my brain. In some cases matters, but when it comes to this technology, it doesn't really matter. You can apply your chest and your brain gets it and your legs gets it. >> Okay. >> And so, it does goes all a lot of places. >> Would your technology work with nicotine? >> You know what? I don't know. We got to try because man, I have a nicotine nasal spray. Um that's like h from like you take this, you go on a little journey. I might have used it at Burning Man a few times. >> And if you could increase nicotine's bioavailability in the brain because we do know that that does work. >> Um nicotine is neuroprotective and it's helps Alzheimer's and things like that. There actually might be a real medical use for something that could that could go in that way. I would look into the absorption issues if there is an absorption issues and then if it's not getting to the not quite >> it goes in pretty good as it is but I want to go in even better. >> Well I again we look into that part it's like the Texan and me it's like well if I could shoot it with a 45 caliber I could also shoot it with a 50 caliber. We got to try. >> But the thing is a kill is a kill right if it's a 9 mm or 50. Oh, no. It's a kill is not a kill. Like you want to shoot like like a truck and the whole thing blows up. It's way more satisfying than if the engine block just gets penetrated. I mean, come on, D. Like like there there's Oh, okay. Try. >> Yeah. But but when it comes to medicine, it's not that glory, right? >> Fair point. All right. And that mindset, by the way, in biohacking, there are many people, including me, who might have gone a little too far on things. Uh so caution is warranted, but still want to try it. >> Like Glut, we have the regular and the plus version. Yeah, >> plus is like almost double the strength like one and a half 75 times long more than glutil >> people always think oh glutathione I need more >> so they buy the plus assuming that they need their needs are more but not everybody has high needs >> and if you take excess glutathione what are the rest >> well the thing is it's a massive detoxifier it's a conjugator so if you can clean the liver out really fast the body's not used to it >> you're going to get a headache >> you're going to get a headache you may get diarrhea you know it's things like that and so it's not pretty you don't have to suffer through There's a natural speed of healing and sometimes you can without any downside accelerate it. You can usually double your speed of healing and sometimes if you want to really radically heal or lose weight, doing it fast has side effects. When I published my uh it was a rapid fat loss guide a long time ago, I had a guy lose a pound a day for 75 days. Like this stuff works. Problem is everyone gets massive brain fog when they're releasing all the toxins from their fat. So, I had to put in glutathione. I didn't have yours available. I had to put in activated charcoal and all these things just to manage the toxic burden from rapid weight loss. >> So, yeah, we don't need to overdo it, but we want to try to overdo it once to see what happens. >> Oh, people have tried it. Trust me, I get calls all the time. >> All right. >> Who shouldn't use GHK? Are there contra indications? >> I don't think so at this point. I don't I have not come come across any skin type any person with any conditions that cannot use GHK copper. >> Okay. For topical I can't think of a reason. Maybe if you're doing it introvenously or something there might be might be like out of an abundance of caution pregnancy or something but I wouldn't worry about that if I was pregnant. >> I know you can't say but this aren't studies so you're going to say you can't. Again, GHK is one of those naturally uh comp natural products in in your body. So, it's not something that we are introducing something uh a unique product. So, uh >> it's not a I I had to look at the category uh for the pregnancy at this point. I'm not sure. Injectable for sure. No. >> Yeah. >> In general for sure, no. During the pandemic, I sent him a blog post and I I said, "Look," or a post on some platform said, "As the author of a major book on fertility, I don't recommend injecting anything in pregnant women that isn't absolutely necessary to save the mother's life right now, >> just because there's so much we don't understand, especially in the first trimester. So, just be careful, like treat pregnant women carefully." Yeah. Yeah. And this blue-haired, mean-spirited OBGYn organized a mob on Twitter to say this sis white man is trying to tell women what to do with their bodies. And he's saying they shouldn't get COVID vaccine when they're pregnant. By the way, blue-haired woman, I was right. You were wrong. If you're still alive with your eight injections, you should apologize. But anyway, it was it was it was a thing to deal with. But I stand by those words. If you're pregnant or someone around you is pregnant, like treat them with kindness, be gentle. You don't need to go crazy on things like that. Lots of nourishment, lots of safety, and don't stick anything in them that's not necessary. Right. >> Exactly. Like even the glow that is completely safe, >> right? But even during the pregnancy, we tell them, hey, >> actually for pregnant ladies, I have doctors using for pregnant for the first trimester because it gives you nausea instantaneously. Yeah. >> They're not throwing up anymore. >> Yeah. So you want to use glutathione at low doses. >> Low dos. You're not going to take a hero dose of glutathione because it's going to cause a wave of toxin release. That's right. >> But most if not all morning sickness is caused by toxins. And if you can get those out, that's I was always activated charcoal, glutathione, those were in my pregnancy prep work. And then what you do when you're pregnant. >> That's right. >> To suck out the the stuff that's going to cause problems >> because you have two people, yourself and the baby that producing toxins all day long. >> Exactly. >> In the first trimester, the body start to adjust to how how to get rid of all these chemicals. Mhm. Yeah. I have a friend who didn't know she was pregnant and tried 1 milligram of nicotine, which is a tiny dose, threw up for 2 hours straight. And uh her uh uh you know, the couple days later she's like, I figured out what was going on there. It was she was pregnant and her body's like, you will not touch anything like that. Which is actually good for non-pregant people and bad for baby brains. So mom's bodies are pretty smart. >> That's right. >> Yeah, that's right. Okay, as we wind up the interview, I want you to give us your two best protocols. One, fast results for hair density and one kind of slow build for skin elasticity and just whole body GHK. >> Okay, so the slow body GHK is basically just applying the recommend dose of five or 10 drops, okay? >> Uh once or twice a day, >> just anywhere. >> That's anywhere. most in the face because that's where that that's what the uh syn if you apply on the face that doesn't mean you grow facial hair by the way I just make sure make sure people get confirmed that this is not to grow more facial hair by the way >> it won't help guys beards >> uh it may get the it may get the the >> follicles may be healthier and it may be less white okay that's but it's not going to cause women to grow hair it's not a hair growth serum at all it's a healthy skin >> it's a healthy skin develop serum right >> now if you're thinking for increasing firmness intensity. >> Mhm. >> It's the full drop of full which is almost 10 to 12 drops twice a day >> or maybe like three times a day sometimes. But that's I'm I'm now I'm going really crazy. So you have to go there or not? I have no idea. >> So you're talking 10 to 12 drops of the oro copper tripeptides >> three times a day on the face and neck >> for what period of time in order to get that thickness? >> So the results shows up in four four to six weeks. >> Four to six weeks. Okay. How many dropper fulls are in a bottle? >> So this one is 30 ml 1 oz. Each dropper full is about.5 to 7 ml. >> There's about 60 in here. 45 to 60 drops or dropper fulls. >> Drops. >> Okay. So on that protocol doing it twice a day. This is good for about a month. >> At least a month. >> Okay, cool. So you're going to need two bottles of this in order to do the skin density protocol >> for the first time. Yes. >> Um two what? Two bottles. If it's one if it's twice two dropper or you said four dropper fulls a day. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Got it. So, you need two bottles for the first month. >> First month. >> And so, you might as well get four bottles and that's going to get you two months, which is plenty of time. And you should be able to see measurable results even on like a high-end dermal scan, right? >> That's right. >> Okay. Um, let's compare that to Botox, which is bad for your nervous system. It makes you less emotive anyway. Um, what does four bottles of this cost? >> Each one is going to be around about 160. >> 160. Okay. ish. >> And if I buy for them, do I get some kind of a discount? >> Um, well, we can use Dave's code. >> Oh, is there Dave code? Okay. What's So, was it code Dave? >> We can do code Dave or code Dave 10. >> I just fig a bulk discount, but all right. So, there you go, guys. Use code Dave 10. We just made that up. Orwellness.com. >> Yes. >> Aurelness.com and then use code Dave. And uh whether you use Cot Dave or not, if you get four bottles of this and you use it reliably, two bottles per month, that's four dropper fulls a day for 2 months, you should see very measurable results that last for a while because you're actually regrowing stuff. You don't have to do this at that intensity forever. >> No, it's not just for a month or two. After that, you just go back to regular usage. >> One one file every month or two. >> Every every couple of months. Yeah. >> Okay. So, it's going to cost you 80 bucks a month ongoing. And if you do the initial facial regeneration protocol, you're talking four bottles, which is going to run >> about um >> 160 640. And you're giving people some discount on this. So about 600 bucks. Yep. >> Okay. That's pretty much what Botox costs. Actually less than Botox for a lot of people. >> But this is non-toxic. >> Oh yeah. No, >> it's just so much better. >> It's so much better. >> Oh my gosh. >> Okay. This is This is cool stuff. I've been using it for 6 months. I am going to actually increase my usage rate and see what happens because of my uh my zinc copper ratios. And Nian, as always, you're a a a very high-end innovator. There's about three different skin care brands that I've worked with that I really see interesting things. You're not really a skincare brand. You're a pharmaceutical delivery system brand that also does skincare. >> That's right. >> Right. And it's it's pretty impressive. You just see the world through a very different light and you certainly earn my respect and your stuff works. I mean, it works really well. The glutathione is, you know, I don't carry little packets of it when I travel anymore that tastes like, you know, fart jell-o. Um, I just spray your stuff on and it's good to go. And it really works postflight. So, I just I I can know cuz you can feel it. And I think anyone who's heard this interview of the last couple, um, you're into this. And you don't think about this like skin people. You think about this like pharmacist people. It's It's cool. >> Yeah. No, thank you. I appreciate that. That's what I I I I tell my staff, too. But my staff keeps on telling me. I said, "No, but people buy skincare for emotional reasons." I said, "Yeah, but who are those people? I don't know who those people are. I I I only know one thing. I want to create products that actually makes a difference." >> Right. Well, I I am I mean, I guess I say this over and over, but I I I really see your mindset as different than anyone else in the industry. You're different than the supplement people I know, and I'm one of those. You're different than the skincare people I know, and I'm kind of a little bit one of those. You know, I've been involved in the founding of a company in the space, but it's like you're this whole third category that's disruptive. So, keep it up and I look forward to trying whatever next science experiment we come up with. >> Awesome. Thank you, Dave. >> See you next time. on the Human Upgrade podcast.