The following podcast is a Deer Media production. Hi, and welcome back to the Real Stuff Podcast and to another episode of our sub series called Don't Hang Up, where I'm calling people in my personal life and I'm urging them, please don't hang up while I ask deeply personal questions. Today I'm going to call my mom Debbie because I want to talk to her about raising three kids that today as adults are best friends with each other and honestly who never felt any sense of competition with one another while growing up. I need to know what she did, what her strategy was, and pull as much as she can remember out of her. Before I dial her, I've been loving this sub series. I feel like it's such a great way to get people who are maybe not long form podcast listeners in the door to the real stuff and give them just a little short voyeristic conversation as I talk to someone close to me in my life. I feel like it teaches you a lot about a person when you get a little peek inside their interpersonal relationships with others. So, I'm so happy to provide that to you and I would love your suggestions down below if you are watching on YouTube of who else I should call on this series and what other topics you'd want to hear me talk about. All right, so a little background. My mom is extremely averse to being on camera. I am begging her to one day come join me on the real stuff and sit in the studio with me and do an actual in-person interview. But this for me is like she's dipping her toes into the podcast world by allowing me to do a phone call. She's super not happy about this and I need to preface it with that, but I know she's going to be great. So, let's just call her. I have a feeling she's not going to pick up. >> Hello, >> Mom. >> Yeah. >> Hi. Um, don't hang up, but you're live on the podcast. It's happening. Oh god. >> How's it feel? >> It feels terrible. >> Why? >> Because I'm not a public person. You are. >> Yeah. But you're so you're so well spoken and you created me. So by default, you're a public person. >> Okay. Well, I don't know how that happened, but I lucked out. >> All right. Well, I got you here on the show because I think it would make for a great short episode for us to hear a little bit about what you did when raising kids that led to three full-g grown adults now who are so close with each other and who have never felt an ounce of competition with one another. And I specifically find this fascinating coming from you given that you're an only child and you didn't have siblings where there was like a good or a bad dynamic to work off of. So, can you just take me back to when Ally and I were born? Because at that point, the sibling stuff was being introduced. What did you do right from the start? Can you remember anything? >> It's not that long ago, Lucy. >> It was 30 years ago. 32 years ago. >> Well, my brain is still functioning, so I do remember. >> Okay. I remember that I got the easiest scenario I thought because you were both girls and it would keep Robbie in his spotlight because it I didn't bring another boy in to compete with him. So, I felt in my mind that was easier because you guys got a lot of attention because you were twins and people would stop and make a deal because people look at twins and he would be standing there next to us holding the stroller and I was always able to say, "This is my only boy." It gave him a special little niche to live in. He He wasn't just like the third wheel. He was a special other one. If that makes any sense to you. >> It makes sense. But I guess if someone's listening to this and they just had two boys or two girls, are they doomed? >> No, of course not. Because then they could say, "Well, this is the big brother and this is the most important big sister." I just always emphasize what spot you each had and tried to make you each feel special in your own way. Luckily, as you started to develop as little people, you were very very very different from the get-go. You each had your your strengths and you each had your interests and you your personalities came out and we just went with them. We never tried to say, "Well, do what your sister's doing and look at how your sister, you know, I mean, from the time you were three, Ally had a sense of style." Sorry to say this loud, Lou, but >> no, we could we could talk up Alli's style. She really does have a sense of style. >> Well, she had a sense of style and she was very very neat and very meticulous and we would go out to dinner and she'd have a very clear idea of what she was wearing and wanted to wear and you totally didn't care. I could have put a plastic bag on you and you would have left the house happily because it didn't you didn't care no matter what I put on you. And then we would leave the house and go to dinner. And by the time we came home, Ally looked like she was just about to go out and you looked like you were in a war because, you know, you'd have food stains and your thing would be untucked and, you know, Ally would be like precise and prim and it was just a very big difference. And I never remember ever saying to you, "Oh, look at how neat Ally is. M >> look at how she stayed clean. What's wrong with you? I never I never ever said that. >> So, you were just thinking it in your head and you were just saying it behind my back, but you never said it to me. >> No, I never said it to you and I never chastised you for it and I never made you feel bad about it. And I just quickly realized that you were just a very expressive and I'm going to use the word creative even though you weren't creative at that point, but that was who you were. And Ally was very organized and very precise and it mattered to her that her collar was not straight and it wasn't part of who you were. But I never remember saying to you, "Oh my god, look what a mess you are." You were comfortable in that skin and you never felt bad and you never criticized Ally for it and she never criticized you for it. Do you remember as we got older and as we were going through school and you know there were various times we were at least as we got older we were in the same classes doing the same tests and you know not competing with each other but we were very much looking at our scores knowing we just took the same tests and one of us is going to do better or worse. Do you remember having certain things that you tried to not say or tried to say to encourage us to stay connected and not competitive? I just didn't make a deal out of it. I just said they were both really good scores and I was happy with them and the competitive nature. It was weird because you and Ally were always wanting the other one to do better. Like you would actually be happier. Like make believe you got a test back and you got a 90 and Ally got an 80. You would be less happy with that than if she got the 90 and you got the 80. >> That's true. for some reason and the same for her. You were always looking out for the other one and wanting the best for the other one, which was really nice. I don't know where that came from. >> I think it maybe came from you. Well, may I don't know. I'm trying to determine if it was something you did. That's why I'm calling you. But I think that from the start of us going to school and being in similar classes, even though I am the younger one, you know, we're twins, but I was one minute younger in the C-section. So, even though I'm the younger sister and definitely absorbed all the qualities of being the youngest child, I for whatever reason felt a little protective over Ally, probably because of the personality discrepancy and her being a touch shy than I was and me feeling like I just needed to look out for her. You know, going to summer camp, she was homesick and I wasn't and I was like caring for her. Even though I had that personality, she was technically the older sister. So I think she always felt the older sister protectiveness towards me. And so we both were feeling this protectiveness towards each other leading to us wanting the other one to get the best and have the best and do the best, which is nice, but I'm trying to determine if it came from you saying things to us because I remember you used to tell us, you told us before we had the chance to determine if we liked each other as people, you told us that we were built-in lifelong best friends and that it was our responsibility to look out for the other person and to never talk badly about the other person behind their back to someone else, but like this was my go-to person and it's my responsibility to be her best friend no matter what. And so, do you remember saying that? >> Yes. I said it because I never had a sibling. So, it's almost like what I hoped for in a sibling. I wanted I was hoping for somebody who would always be on my side, who would look out for me and I could look out for them. And it was like the dream sibling would have been somebody to stand with you your whole life. And I remember saying that nobody I mean it was kind of a weird thing to say to young kids, but I did say it that nobody will ever love you the same way as your sister or your brother because they were there for the whole time and they understand you better than anybody ever would because they started out with you and went through all your experiences. and that you need to embrace that and because parents aren't around forever, but chances are your siblings will be around for a lot longer and we stand with you. Do you remember any times when we did bicker or fight as siblings do and how you guided us to handle that or like things you said to us to make sure that it was made right? >> You honestly didn't fight a lot. I mean, the the the little bickering things. I mean, we actually have a video of you guys bickering in a in on a vacation where you took Alli's Berett or something. >> It was her bracelet. >> Her bracelet. And and it was so not meaningful because you were you were giggling. You were teasing her and you were hiding and she was going, "Give it back. Give it back. Give it back." you know, but basically you you really didn't have big arguments. >> I think you might have like a touch of rosecolored glasses because I feel like I agree we didn't have a huge argument where we were not speaking for days or you know anything that obviously led to a falling out or major rift. But we were bickering and fighting. I remember pulling her hair. I remember being mad at her. And I remember just being in a fight, but I I also feel like I'm trying to remember if this is real or if it's just something that we maybe mentioned once, but I feel like I remember us being in a little bit of a fight one night and you basically not letting us go to sleep until we figured it out. >> Oh, well, that probably happened. that sounds right because I didn't want it to grow and I didn't want it to fester and I and I knew you could work it out if you and you know young kids always tend to do that. They get to a point where they start giggling about it. You know what I mean? They're fighting fighting fighting until they're not. But I I just don't remember a lot of fights. It wasn't like it wasn't like your childhood was spent with me separating you or you know even Robbie. Robbie was never, you know, he would tease you sometime and chase you, but it wasn't like there was any real real disturbance in the in the force in the house. >> And what about in terms of having twins? People always ask me, did your parents dress you the same? And were you guys in the same activities? We were fraternal twins, so I think that kind of helps that we looked a little different and had our own visual identities. But you did dress us the same when you know when dressing us was your job. >> I didn't always dress you the same. The only time I remember dressing you really the same is when we went places like public places like the zoo or or Disney World or some place cuz it would be easier for easier for me to find you both. You know what I mean? Like if you were both wearing a red t-shirt, it would be visually easier for me to identify you and if we got separated or if one walked ahead instead of trying to remember who was wearing what and what color did she have. I mean, I just did that for my my benefit. I feel like most of the photos that I have from when we were babies, we are dressed the same. But now that you're saying it, I guess most of our photos were taken on special occasions. >> Yeah. I mean, we didn't we weren't absorbed in pictures the way you guys are now and taking pictures every six minutes. But, you know, I dress >> I I dressed you coordinatingly. Let's put it that way. >> Let me ask you a question. Given that we were so different and had different personalities, did you ever have a favorite? And I don't mean I know you love us all equal, so this isn't a who do you love more, but was one kid a favorite? >> H well, not really. You were more entertaining and Ally was more cooperative. What about Robbie? >> Um, and Robbie was he was just he was always easy. I mean, he How could I explain Robbie? He was rational. He was a very rational kid. You could explain things to him. He wasn't a wild boy. He wasn't what I used to call a bald boy. You know, like some little boys throw balls all over the house against the wall and you know what I mean? Very active. Robbie was always building something or doing puzzles. He was very introspective that way. But he was social. I can't complain. I got a good batch. The reason I ask this is because I don't know if you know this. >> Oh, >> one time this would happen. >> We were at one of your friends houses. I'll tell you who it is, but I'm going to bleep it out. >> Okay. >> It was >> Mhm. >> So, we're at her house and she I don't know what was happening, but you were off doing something and I was sitting with her and she said something to me like, "Well, you know who your mom's favorite is, right?" And I was like, "Oh my gosh, let me think about it. She's a favorite. Let me think." And the only thing I could think was, "It's got to be me." I mean, I feel like I get a lot of love from her. So, I'm like, "Is it me?" And she looks at me and she goes, "No, it's Robbie, of course." I remember, listen, I wasn't actually offended by it, but it did get me thinking, does she have a kid that not that she loves more, but that she enjoys more? >> No. No. That wasn't true. Cuz you were the most entertaining. If it was my enjoyment, you would have won cuz you gave us shows and you did skits and you were always you were always like a ray of sunshine. You were always like the one that walked in the room and you had a very big mouth and a big smile and you always walked in and you were smiling. No, that's not true. I don't know why she said that. Maybe because I compensated somewhat and I would say, you know, you're my only boy and you know, you're, you know, I might have tried to make him feel special because coming against two adorable twins, it's very easy to feel like the third wheel. So, now that I have two kids, if you were just giving me direct advice on like tangible things I could do between the two of them to help foster them to have a good lifelong relationship, what would you say I should do? starting now. >> Oh god, I didn't write a book on this. I didn't research it. >> It's okay. It's a personal anecdotal interview. >> Yeah. No, you just have to make them you have to recognize their differences and make them feel special because of them. I tell people like when you guys were like four or five and six and you were playing and you'd go to your room, I would always catch you in the bathroom on the sink looking in the mirror making making commercials. This is so embarrassing, Mom. >> Served you right. You wanted to talk to me. No, I you would know you you would sit there and you would make commercials. You'd pick up a product and you'd be talking about a commercial. Buy this. It's on sale today. And you would do that all the time. You would be doing skits. You would do shows for Robbie and Ally. And then you'd call us in and then we'd have to watch you. And Ally was like the perfect audience because no matter how terrible it was, she gave you a standing ovation and then always said again and you got to do it all over again. >> Honestly, I sound quite insufferable as a young child. >> No, no, you were very entertaining. It was You were very fun. And Ally would say again and then you do it again and then she'd say again and then by the fourth again I'd leave the room and leave you two to entertain each other. And Ally always wanted to used to want to play office. Do you remember that? >> Yes. I used to like playing that, too. >> Yeah. She would come with stacks of paper and be running an entire office. And I never remember say, "Oh, Ally, do a commercial with Lucy or why aren't you in the show?" Or, "Lucy, why don't you stop doing that and play office?" I You just did your own thing and you each had a very strong pension for what you wanted to do. And I just let it be. I guess that's it. I just let it be. I let you do your You proceeded with your commercials and your shows and your skits and Ally did what she wanted to do and Robbie was making parades through the house with his creatures. >> Sounds like a really cool house. >> It was fun, but I never I I honestly never tried even like a tiny bit to steer you in the same direction. That's what I'm saying. >> Okay. I think that's I think that's the takeaway is, you know, let the kids form into who they are and then celebrate them for who they are. >> Exactly. I mean, the only reason we sent you to camp together is because Robbie was already at that camp and it was it was easier for us to visit three of you at once. But fortunately, the camp had lots of different activities and and you know, you were in the plays and you you know, you posted videos of you being in wicked and everything. And Ally, >> my alphabet defying gravity moment. >> Exactly. And Ally, I know was in gymnastics. Um, and she played basketball. I mean, you just were different. And I didn't I didn't say when you told me you were in the play, I didn't say, "Well, is Ally in the play? Is Ally going to be in the play? What's Ally doing? You know, I I just it didn't matter. >> Yeah. Thank you for filling us in. I think you did a good job. We're all very close today. And from when we posted our sibling podcast episode, that was one of the prevailing questions people had about what you did and how you fostered that. And so, I know you don't like being on camera, but as people can see or hear today, you are very well spoken and you would make an amazing podcast guest. So, I'll do whatever I need to do to coers you into coming into the studio because we have a lot more to talk about. >> Okay? And just tell everybody that it doesn't matter about the different sex of their children. Just find what's different about them and let them follow that road and don't try to herd them into a a unified mentality of what the kid should be. >> Love it. Great advice. Thanks, Mom. >> Okay. Bye. Love you. >> Bye. Love you, too. See, she was great. We got to get her here. Bye. Thank you so much for tuning in to the Real Stuff podcast. If you're liking the show, please head over to Apple or Spotify and leave us a written review. If you're watching on YouTube, drop a comment down below and join in the conversation. And if you're feeling called to be a guest on the show, visit lucythink.com/apply and tell us your story. Thank you so much as always for sharing your time and attention with us, and we will see you next time on the Real Stuff Podcast. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this