hey welcome again to basic bible doctrine we're in class number 11 and we're in a lesson fyi only welcome again i'm excited about what we're going to learn today as you know we've gone over the last eight doctrines together i trust it's been a blessing to you there are a couple more one in particular the atonement that we did not go over that is in your book those can be taught in the master's classes here at epic church i trust you've been reading this book i know i haven't put too many requirements on you to read certain pages um but i'm trusting the spirit of god makes you thirsty and hungry for righteousness and for truth um get in here you will love dr connors again i just can't tell you how he has blessed my life and caused me to learn more about the things of god especially adoption what we're going to do today is go back to week one when i had begun to do the introduction uh to basic bible doctrine and i guess my point back then was where did it come from how did we get it um what makes us so different from everybody else and i've written some things on the on the chalkboard here that i trust uh you will your members will come back or you'll go and go get your um lesson here when uh class number one it had an outline and it taught you and showed you how we got our adoption and where it came from but i want to clarify one thing before we go into these two schools of thought that have been at each other since penta well i can't say really since pentecost but since uh the reformation if you will this class is f y i only what do i mean by fyi for your information only i am not teaching a position of this church nor am i declaring my position to you i have my position and i won't tell you maybe next week i will or i'll share something with you that might really help you understand the position that we should have to my understanding protestantism within itself has had an issue and when i say protestantism i mean when the great reformation began and let me just clarify a few things just real quick when it when it began after a thousand years if you will of the church being in existence there were no doctrines there were creeds if you will of what we believe about god the father god the son and god the holy spirit who man is what devils are and there wasn't really a clear understanding but only the clergy if you will had those things the common people did not um then the catholic church took over from the year 1000 to 1500 it's called the dark ages and you might remember i mentioned that the dark ages did not mean there was no sun and no light bulb it was dark in the sense of the light of the true gospel of grace that was not being taught man had gotten in the way of and brought religion into christianity i'll leave that one alone and i had come up with all kinds of regulations and duties and things to merit favor with god twisted much of the scriptures for their own advantage but one day in the 15th century a man called martin luther who had been a catholic monk all his life on all his life but for many many many years and he was on his knees one day crying out to god because he didn't have any satisfaction of what he was doing to marry favor with god and of course what you do does not matter favor with god because what we need to do is go to the one who's done everything his name is jesus anyway martin luther was on his knees and all of a sudden the holy spirit he had opened up the word to habakkuk chapter 2 verse 4 and and all of a sudden it said this and the just shall live by faith and the holy spirit ignited that gave him the illumination of the revelation i say that very carefully he gave him the illumination of the revelation the revelation is the word the illumination thought of the holy ghost on us and when he read that and the holy spirit began to give him the understanding of what salvation and being saved was all about that was around 1650 and he began to challenge his own church at that time in germany uh in light of what they were the roman catholic church was teaching and he nailed the 95 thesis these these complaints if you will or challenges if you will to the church to sit down with him to go over what the bible said versus what the church taught that was the bottom line what saith the lord verses what saith the church and they would not sit down with him because he says so last scripture in other words scripture only we're not using any of any any outside resources to to justify what truth is it's only the word of god that's where we have the source of truth is in the word jesus said thy word is truth there is no other truth if you will on the face of this planet but in god's word somebody ought to say amen i don't care what vision someone has what what prophetic utterance they get if you don't line up with that word write them off and run quickly i think the master said in the last days many will come in my name declaring they're the christ he said if possibly the elect would be deceived but it's not possible for the elect to be deceived others will be deceived but you and i will keep our eyes on jesus amen anyway the great reformation began he he was so on fire for jesus that people were turning now to the saving grace and the finished work of jesus christ that they excommunicated martin luther out of church and watched us out of germany they chased that boy right out and in doing that it spread even further to europe it almost reminds me of the book of acts where when the persecution came upon the church in jerusalem and it says they all went out of jerusalem preaching the word you know persecution sometimes god uses to get us moving uh he said to go into all the world and and uh the world can be wherever you're at in your neighborhood on your job wherever you go um but sometimes we need a little fire lit under us to get us moving i think right now we got a lot of fire in this country don't we to get the church moving i gotta be careful um but again what what began was the practicing movement i don't know if you know this or not but you and i uh are in what they call the protest practice and movement what does that mean whether luther was called a protesting one what was he protesting protesting the false doctrines of the church at that time against what the truth of god was and they began to call him a protestant protesting one and in light of that from that the whole denomination began of scripture only people if you will that's what we are we are scripture only people we are protesting anything that comes against the word of almighty god well that sounds all good doesn't it yes and amen um but little did we know that within the protestant church we have our own problems and divisions and here's why it happened remember i mentioned to you two schools that are in the practice and movement if you will it's called calvinism and armenianism calvinism is what we call sovereign grace arminianism is what we call free will and both have been uh preached in the churches and both have caused a division amongst us haven't they if you've ever met a calvinist out there and heard them talk about their position it can turn into a pretty heated argument in fact churches have divided been divided themselves in light of these two positions i hope today to give you some in and some information to help you understand your brother regardless of which side you are on remember i want to help you tear it down the walls and christianity and build bridges with your brother with understanding of each other because maybe some of you are on either side of the camp right now and and and some of this might be a little awkward for you but just give me a chance to share with you what i mean by what i say and what the reformation produced i think you're going to enjoy this when calvin came on the scene he was first before jacobus arminus you can go online and check all these things out and check brother joao please do that but my goal is to help you build a bridge and tear down the walls in christianity why because jesus said i have to divide it against itself cannot stand and the church is the only influence that the world has to preserve it in righteousness we're called salt and we're called under this so and the light of the world if the light goes out the salt becomes dung unrighteousness overwhelms us are we seeing that today or are we seeing unrighteousness raising its ugly head evil almost stampeding righteousness i wonder why has the church lost the salt has the church lost its light and i think it is dimming and the salt's becoming a little questionable well let's just result and relax how's that one and let's us you and me as the people of god stand up and declare and show and live oh my god and live what righteousness that's all about legalism boom that one turned off more people oh the legalists if i could spend five minutes with some of them i know them well why i used to be one anyway and then the liberals oh there just as bad if you will loose living and yet declaring i'm under grace well yeah you're under grace but you're also under judgment for your lifestyle how's that one i leave those things alone and get back to what we're learning here calvinism came up with something called doctrine of grace go online and check it out it's called the doctrines of grace and this is what calvin and luther uh and these great men of god john owens put together from the scriptures from genesis to revelations the doctrines that we study but then they went a a a a bit further and declared how god saves people this is the crux of the whole thing how does one get saved salvation is the big question and rightly so isn't it without being saved without being regenerated without being born again i don't think anything else really matters nothing else could happen to the human vessel unless he gets the new heart and new spirit and in regeneration and how does that happen so there were questions raised that the calvinist and answered and they called the doctrine of grace go online check me out and here's what that meant they came up with acronyms called the tula tea u l i p tula i don't mean the flower out there that grows every spring everybody gets all excited about i love the red one the yellow one the pink ones whatever but that's not the issue all right they use acronyms t u l i p capitalism came up with tulip t-u-l-i-p watch you go online check this out what in the world brother do what does that mean tulip t-u-l-i-p well calvin said this about this and i will be sending this to you so you'll have this paper in front of you because i have both of them for you what did calvin coming out they came on the scene first before jacobus arminius came up with his fine poi so that will read to you no problem at all the five points about here here we go the t stood for total depravity the calvinists believe that man is in absolute bondage to sin satan unable to exercise his own will to trust in jesus christ without the help of god that's the t the you unconditional election the calvinists believe that the foreign knowledge is based upon the plan and purpose of god and that election is not based upon the decision of man but the free will of the creator alone the l stands for limited atonement the calvary's believed that jesus christ died to save those who were given to him by the father in eternity pass in their view all for whom jesus died the elect will be saved and all for whom he did not die not elect will be lost oh boy the eye stands for irresistible grace i love this one this is one of my favorites ear ear not grace irresistible the calvinists believe that that the god that god possesses irresistible grace that cannot be obstructed they taught that the free will of man is so far removed from salvation that the elect are regenerated made spiritually alive by god even before expressing faith in jesus christ for salvation if a totally depraved person wasn't made alive by the holy spirit such a calling of god would be impossible number five is the p this is what the doctrines of grace are in calvinism is the perseverance of the saints the calvinists believe that salvation is entirely the work of the lord and that man has absolutely nothing to do with the process the saints will be preserved because god will see to it that he will finish the work he has begun i think it says there in philippians he that has begun a good work in you will continue to perform it until the day of jesus christ how would that happen because the same perseverance that was in jesus going to the cross is now in you also i'll i'll give you more on the verses that justify what calvin believed next week i want to go slow and build a foundation for you now as true as these things are scripturally and this was the believing of the protestant movement at that church for about 30 years now all of a sudden the man a scholarly man a man of great understanding of the word came along his name was uh jacobus arminius and said hold on calvin ah those five points i i i i like the letters but the way you interpret it i do not agree i respect you but i will not be silent in what i see in the word oh boy here it goes here goes the split all you're good and you have you should have this also here's the five points of our meaningism what they believe these five points mean under protestantism in your church did you ever wonder why when you go past the church most churches now especially the old school church but they had a sign out there that said who they were and what i mean by that watch this free will baptist church sovereign grace baptist church reformation presbyterian church and all these signs out there outside their church on the grass for you to see when you go by what is that all about brother joe they're saying something about either school that they believe in that you don't know anything about until tonight jacob mr minion says hey whoa whoa whoa wait a minute i like the tulip but let me tell you from the free will point of view what it should mean so we're going to be reading from the five points of immunism number one free will our ministers believe that the of man was not total meaning that there was that was still enough good in left in man for him to will to accept jesus christ as lord and savior number two can he be in conditional election in other words armenians believed that the elect the election was based on god's foreknowledge of who would believe man's act of faith was seen as the condition for his being elected to eternal life since god foresaw him exercising his free will in response to jesus christ wow number three or the l universal tone not limited universal atonement arminius believed that the redemption was based on the fact that god loves everybody that christ died for everyone and that the father does not vote for any to die unredeemed the death of christ provided the grounds for god to save all man but each must exercise his own free will in order to be saved okay number four irresistible grace jacob said no it's obstructionable grace armenians believed that the same god wanted old man to be saved he sent the holy spirit to woo all men to christ but since man has absolute free will he is able to resist god's will for his life he believed that god's will to save all men can be frustrated by the finite will of man he also taught that man exercises his own will first and then is born again and then number five this is the kicker right here um the perseverance of the saints are many is taught that man could fall from grace calves believe you cannot fall from grace and we'll look that'll be deeper next week okay but here's where the church has really fought over this particular one what's my point can you lose salvation or are you eternally secure see both schools are teaching on my position that's what i'm trying to teach you their positions not declaring this church's position or mine but letting you know almost every single church has either positions and now you can tell you go into a church and some of you know what i mean you've been around a little bit i've been around quite a bit in a church that believes in free will there's always an altar call isn't there always an altar call and then have you visited some churches where there is no altar call at all they just simply preach the word what's the difference brother joe their position this one calvin has believed that in just the preaching of the word by itself letting the holy ghost bring conviction on the quote sinner brings salvation in god's sovereignty this one here believes in free will that when they hear the word they have a choice to respond to or not that's why some churches have altar calls and some don't they are declaring their position based on armenianism free will or calvinism sovereign grace that's why learning something please let me bring you back to why i'm teaching you these things it's for fyi only for your information only why because you have your position like i do and when we meet our brother and sister of an opposite position we need to build a bridge with them and tear down these religious walls that have kept us from doing what we're supposed to do and let's go into all the world and preach the gospel amen hold on i i have something for you at the end of this time of teaching but anyway let me let me just share with you what our armenian says there in number five where is the perseverance of the saints that this is their interpretation of it and again next week i will have a greater outline for you scripturally okay because i know brother joe where's the bible hey if i can't show you in the word turn me off quick i will have that for you next week i'm trying to fundamentally i'm trying to basic bible doctrine you and give you a foundation that next week you can build upon in light of the scriptural position of both of these camps wouldn't it be great to find a church that is able to balance both these out i believe our church is that way they're falling from grace boy you talk about the doctrine level what will infuriate people on either side when they are brought into a scriptural discussion let me read it falling from grace if man cannot be if man cannot be saved by god unless it is man's will to be saved that man cannot continue salvation unless he continues to will to be saved in other words man can fall away from grace and lose his salvation how many of you have heard that have you know that and how many of you think that when the calvinist says no way armenia says oh yeah we'll we'll go deeper next week so just calm everything down okay so brother joe which one is right you know in the years i've spent in listening and learning and seeking god both schools are in the scriptures both schools have plenty of firm foundation in the word of god to stand on i must admit for a few years in the earlier days of my christian learning i had a hard time trying to reconcile both of these schools together i didn't understand what i believe i understand today and believe me i'm always looking for more light nobody no one person no one denomination has all the light or we have jesus who is the light but in our understanding of thinking and teaching and sharing things we're waiting for more we're going from glory to glory uh from grace to grace where we're going you know line upon line priest of our priesthood i i'm open to discuss these topics i love listening to people who think differently than me it challenges me to go to the word to find out more about salvation and and what what does it mean how what's the evidence of people who get saved i believe there's two profound uh undeniable evidences of initial salvation when when the transition of heaven comes into the human vessel the divine nature comes into the heart of a man who has been you know dead in trespasses and sins in ephesians chapter 2 verses 1 through 4 describes us as being dead and trespassing to be heavily hated from god enemies of god when divine nature comes in by way of the holy ghost and he puts in and makes alive the spirit of man who was dead there's two things that i believe are undeniable first there's a there's a love for god that he's never seen because he said this the love of god poured out in our hearts it should be a love for god and and and then there should be a hunger for the word what do i mean by hunger for the world oh yeah as sincere babes desiring the sincere milk of the word you grow thereby according to first peter i forget the chapter i think it's chapter three but there is a sincere you have a hunger for this book when you truly become born again um i remember when i got saved back in 1977 um i i i i had a love for god i knew didn't know anything about but i knew i loved him wasn't a church anywhere yet because i'd gotten saved in a sovereign grace man like saul of tarsus on the road to the masses but yet i had there was that saturation uh this is with hunger i have the advice now don't forget i got saved without the agency of man um no one led me into prayer uh i didn't bow my head i couldn't care less but i didn't fear one thing god in judgment how's that conviction of sin what happened to that repentance what happened to those formulas of bringing people to christ anyway um bam i got born again overnight i didn't do any more cocaine i didn't smoke any more cigarettes i stopped living with her i stopped living with her anyway no more fornication anyway uh no more slipping and sliding how's that one some of you know what i mean and but i had but my point was this i had a hunger i so i got to get a bible now look don't be i'm off the block i'm off the corner and out of the parking lot and i know about the projects we're learning about no bible man where do you get a bible i had to keep asking people who i don't cocaine with where you get bible they say you go crazy yeah good crazy and finally um car in the car well the auto repair shop that i was bringing in to my to my shop to do work on it i think two days later three days later after i had gotten born again and on the front seat of the car the guy must he left his bible on the front seat i'm sorry but i i i couldn't wait for that man to come to pick up his car four o'clock and i could he said how's my car i said sir it's fine but what i need that book on the front seat of your car what is that a bible sir and from there he began to share with me the love of jesus and the next day he sent down his pastor to begin to um love on me and feed me the word of god what's my point when someone truly is born again there's a love for god he's never seen and a hunger for the word you know what i mean some of you know exactly what i mean and here's the big challenge now 43 years later are you still hungry or we become lazy christians fat cat christians oh mercy of lord jesus sit in church and get fat on the grace and mercy and love and word of god and rightly so it should make us lazy and not going into the world and making converse to make disciples to make workers to make leaders who become strong men and women of god let us hunger first right all the days of our life let's continually be the path to god and his word amen so these um these two wonderful schools are what are under protestantism and we this church has been split in half just about of either camp so brother joe what what what's what's the what's the answer well i i i i believe both schools and like i said next week you'll be able to see the outline that goes deeper into the scriptural the description of both schools if you even uh want to look at something real quick and just ponder romans chapter 9 of romans chapter 10 romans chapter 9 and romans chapter 10. what's that brother joe well romans chapter 9 deals with sovereignty what can the clay say to the potter who are that old man he saw i've hated jacob i have loved just just go read it without any bias you'll see calvinism sovereignty at a high level and then read chapter 10. all of a sudden there's this flip if you will of if you believe in your heart if you're confessing your mouth jesus lord and believe in your heart that god written dead you shall be saved it's free will i mean ism and what flips me out and no and all reformed baptist minister taught me this he said they're both next to each other romans 9 and romans 10. check it out there you see one of sovereignty and you see two free will and which which is it i got news for you it's usually both i use an illustration um that i trust will will bless you uh if i had the camera on a door right now i think it would really the impact would be even greater um because it's so true about do we we hear about you know revelations chapter three i think it's verse 19 20 there where it says that uh um you know i stand at the door and knock and whosoever hears my voice and opens the door i will freely come in he will drink and dine with me and that's true that's true i mean we call that the door if you've been any billy graham's crusades or uh in a high-level armenian uh teaching uh they call the door of salvation and rightly so now nothing wrong with that but i want to show you uh both sides of the door i used to do this in in class but i had a door that i could open and close but i've done something i hope will will bless your heart in in light of the understanding because we we can't get away from either school and in light in in regards to your position i respect either either or believe me you can talk with me at church and finally gather together or i would love to have a class with you but um or you call me here at the church just fine with me um you know we need to understand our brothers and sisters who are on the other side of either point that i've made today and i trust it's been somewhat clear to you and this is why the church has been so divided it's all about the understanding of how god's saved not does he say both sides believe he saves is how you get saved in fact you know it's interesting in my little baptist church in asbury park there where god led me to after i was saved it was an armenian church or three-wheel one right uh so of course you know brother joe still got an afro i just i just got saved so i'm i'm spanking wet out of the holy spirit and the womb with the holy ghost right and i just think about my v-neck shirt hair still sticking out i got my metal on my gold chain brother and i used to be six foot six foot two here with my platform shoes shark skin pants i was skinny i love us you know finn was in anyway um when i go into the church that the pastor would come to my repair shop invited me too she was all people looking at me this is back in 77 okay um i think they called the the jesus the jesus movement people um the hippies were getting saved uh it was an incredible time with the word of god and revival during that hippie movement and they were called jesus freaks because the guys that were getting high on acid and lsd we're not getting high on jesus so they just equate that to a different kind of high and and and you know it was the most high god of course and our lives are being transformed these people who were strung out derelicts now are they're brand new creatures in crisis what was that so when i go into this little baptist church you know about 50 60 people that are there boys are nice suits and nice dresses and everybody priming properly you know and he walks in brother joe yoho and of course the pastor knew that i had been born again and was trying to explain me to the people no not in the morning service but afterwards and they said who is that who is that how can we stop that from actually still shoulders chested his hair around and you know the name was passed out he said you know he just got saved now this gives him some time to grow let's let's be understanding he's he's working through some things right now and and and and and i i was i was thankful for a pastor who understood but i was and yet here here's here's here's my point most of them can be asking me well when did you accept jesus christ as savior i said what do you mean i got saved no no you have to accept gee you have to accept jesus christ i said well i guess i have because i'm saved and so they made me say a prayer but now they made me say a prayer i was already saying but they made me say prayer for them to think i'm saying but i already was saying because of their position get the point of nothing wrong saying the prayer but the prayer by itself does not guarantee regeneration um you can have a profession but sometimes not a possession we'll talk more about that some other time anyway so brother joe come on give us give us give us some bottom line which i love bottom line or i can't stand all of it all the work through but yet we have to work through things don't worry anyway i was reading if you haven't read anything about charles hadden spurgeon c.h spurgeon you will love his position on both of these schools i will tell you his position in a moment but i'm going to show you as i said before the door of salvation you may remember the scripture says this and this is what jesus said too whosoever will may come and drink freely as revelations chapter 22 uh verse 17. that's what it says on the door the front door if you will i had a door here put that on the door right and on the front of the door it says whosoever will they come whosoever not just the elect anybody amen can come and drink freely the bible says so that's the front of the door but then when it opened the door guess what it says according to the word of god predestinated before the foundations of the world wow one side of the door armenianism on the side of the door according to ephesians chapter one verse four in fact that whole chapter will drive you wild when it comes to god's sovereign grace and saving the elect verses 1 through 17 and my memories correct are just phenomenal in predestination for knowledge and election but so are the chapters when it comes to free will predestinate on the back of the door before the foundations of the world which school is right both and we need to learn how to accept brothers who may not be our persuasion and position so we can build a preaching that's my point of all that i'm saying because the church cannot show division and sad to say because the church of so is america we need to get back to unity the understanding of each other as democrats and republicans used to do and honor with god puts in place of authority no matter who wins that alone and then when i was reading charles had this version i'll finish up this having been frustrated with both schools and wondering which is right he said these words in his outline he said uh because he struggled with it too and he said he was watch this now you ready he was calvinistic by doctrine but arminius by practice oh get that please it's calvinist by doctrine armenian by practice he was sovereign grace by doctrine but free will by by practice in other words he go out and so whosoever will let them come he didn't go out saying only those who are free destiny come to jesus that's a fool no no no whosoever will let them come and in the coming we find out who's been pretty desperate you ever seen a billy graham meeting 50 60 000 people one time less sometimes more and yet only elect i mean only certain people come down not everybody no of course there are a lot who are saved you brought someone but not everybody comes down why it may not be time for them it's not ready they don't hear the voice of good shepherd yet and they make us say it later on i don't know but what's my point you can be calvin by doctrine but with what you know the word says because it does say and you can be armenian or free will by practice you can go out to the highways and byways as jesus said and tell people come and freely drink and eat the bread drink the water of eternal life and see people get saved knowing they're predestinated before the foundations of the world i hope i've given you something that helps you begin to build a bridge with your brother or sister who may be stuck in their position and it's okay to have your position that's not an issue at all but let's not let not that position keep us from building a bridge with each other let not that position cause you or me to build a wall with my brother love will always find a way to work it out you can keep your position but still join hands with your brother and sister and promote the glorious gospel of grace to the world and see the world be saved in jesus name i thank you for the privilege to speak into your lives and i trust uh what i've taught you and there'll be more a little more next week um i want to be careful in light of the scriptural positions of both because i haven't given you too much scripture on on on these two positions have i i see i'll i'll i'll admit uh where i need to go higher in fact next week you'll get that um but i wanted to show you what this means see sometimes we can read the word don't know what it means what people mean by what they say uh you will have an idea now when you see the scriptural position this is the explanation of their positions but next week you'll see the scriptural positions of what they mean by what they say i'm excited i'm thrilled for you account of the privilege to speak into your lives and i'm always available to talk about these things um i love calvin by doctrine and arminian by practice in jesus name amen next week we'll look a little deeper as i said and then we'll talk about the final test i know you can't wait for that but as you know brother joe's tests are not all that hard because i want you to get things that you can share with someone at quick check at bj's at the speedy gas station and i hope i'm not endorsing anybody i can't help and when you're just with neighbors and friends in light of the simplicity that's found in jesus yet being profound in that simplicity as the master always worked the lord jesus never made anything difficult he said if you're hungry eat the bread that i'll give you get thirsty drink the water i give you that leads to eternal life and that's my goal on your test it will be somewhat simplistic but profound how's that anyway let's close our prayer father in the matchless name of jesus just thank you for this awesome time together you promise in your word that your word will never return void thank you father being faithful to your word and i thank you for each student that's hearing this class the lord it means something to them to begin to build that bridge with their brothers and sisters jesus said by this you know they are my disciples that they have loved them for noah never compromising truth but understanding the truth in your words sometimes it can cause us to build a wall but it really should cause us to build a bridge of understanding so i thank you your holy spirit will lead and guide them and me into further truth be glorified father in our lives in jesus name amen be good to see you next week and don't forget only two things last for eternity the word and people put the word into people and you will have a double investment in the kingdom of god god bless you we'll see you next week