Jackson speaks. Welcome to Acquiring Minds. Thanks for having me. Jackson, you're building a portfolio of what you called to me in the pre-call nostalgic restaurants. You've done two acquisitions buying one such nostalgic restaurant then another with four locations. I think I have that right. So, five restaurants total in the portfolio. Fair to predict that number will grow. Now, we all know Jackson that restaurants are terrible businesses. So, you're going to disabuse us of that today. But start us off with some background on you, please. Sure. Well, well, thanks for having me. Um, I listen to your podcast probably at least once a week. So, super exciting to actually be a guest on here. Um, feel very honored. So, thank you for that. I'm from Auburn, Alabama. I'm the oldest of four boys. Um, my father is a land broker. Um, he sells big tracts of hunting land. Um, so, I grew up grew up um, learning really uh, from his clients and he would we would always have dinner um, at night and my dad would tell me about um, his clients and his truck that he had that day. And when you're showing a thousand acres to ten thousand acres, you really get to know the person in your truck. And these individuals are some of the most wealthy individuals in the state of Alabama. Mostly blue collar. So, these guys own uh, plumbing companies, subcontracting companies, electrical businesses and they're buying these pieces of property for five to ten million all cash. So, from a very early age um, I just knew about the blue collar individual and how well they did at business. And I think very early on I just wanted to be a part of that. Man, that uh detail, that lesson would have served me well if I'd learned it sooner. Uh and so many of my guests. Uh we we learn late that small business is actually a place where you can build real wealth. I think many of us go through life thinking that small businesses aren't good businesses. Many of them are not. Um but there are of course enormously successful small business people, which this is about. Great. For sure. Well, that was that was great. So so carry on. So you you that kind of um sets a frame for you about small business. Tell Tell us more about your background. Carry on from there. Sure. So uh went to Auburn High, went to Auburn University, uh graduated there, met my wife there. Um and I was always an entrepreneur at heart. I was lemonade stand kid uh selling power balances um at school out of my backpack in the eighth grade. Um tried to start an app when I was in college. Um failed dramatically, but I learned more through starting that app than I did at college. My friends always joked around that I was never in class, uh but um learning on YouTube and reading books left and right. So um yeah, around senior year of college is when I really got interested in real estate and investing in real estate. And um I really just wanted to try to figure out a way to buy equity and hold equity. And really it it spurred from my father. He you know, I saw him working so hard to sell land day in and day out. And um you know, he was kind of uh always on the hamster wheel. But over time he invested and bought a few pieces of property. Um rental property. And I saw how much time he spent on that and where and how much wealth he had accumulated just through buying a few pieces of property. And that's when in college I was like, "Okay, I really want to buy equity, get in the game instead of go take a job somewhere." Um so, me and him, we bought our first house for $45,000. Um and we actually seller financed it. We can get into seller financing later, but um we actually seller financed it. And it that was very successful. Um we actually sold it for $71,000. Um so, nice little profit for a senior in college. And after that, um raised some capital from uh family friends and on a private note. So, then I went off and bought some properties um some real estate properties in Montgomery, Alabama. Um and that kind of spurred on we can get into it later, but that but that spurred on the restaurant acquisition. Okay. Well, um I get the picture that in college you were learning rather rather than getting good grades. I mean, as you said, your friends joked you weren't in class. Mhm. But given that you did this real estate investment, this first one, with your father, it sounds like he was encouraging of your entrepreneurial uh side projects. Very encouraging. Even though it maybe distracted from your studies. Very encouraging and I think just in the back of my mind, just hearing about all of his clients all growing up, you know, honestly subconsciously, I it it was just very difficult for me to really dive in to school. Yeah. And he's been very supportive, him and my mom um and my wife of all of the endeavors that I've taken. And so not just not just financially a little bit, but also supportive. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Great. Okay, well, you're on a path to become a real estate guy. Mhm. So, connect the dots between how you've now bought businesses from starting out in real estate proper. Yeah, so um real estate guy for sure. Post college, um I sold land post college for my dad, and then again started buying some properties with a private note. Um and after that, I really just uh didn't see as much rental income as I wanted to. And I I started to run the math and go, "Wow, I'm going to need to have thousands and thousands of properties to really get to the cash flow that I would love to have." And that's when me and my wife, we moved to the beach, to Santa Rosa Beach. And um a buddy of mine from college, or he went to different college, but we were friends in college, and he moved down, Carter Andrews, he moved down to the beach about a year after I did. And Carter um he grew up in the restaurant business, his parents own a restaurant. Um he has a ton of restaurant experience just from growing up in the restaurant. He struck up a a relationship with a lady who's owned a nostalgic restaurant here for the past 15 plus years. And it's in Rosemary Beach, Florida. It's called Cowgirl Kitchen. And um around that same time, I was actually selling my portfolio in Montgomery. And really the stars just aligned. I mean, it was we talked about it all the time and just how funny it was, but um I had my portfolio under contract. This was kind of in the craze of after COVID. So, real estate prices are here and to be honest, the portfolio that I had under contract to sell was way overpriced. Um but rates were low and everyone wanted a rental property. Um and I would truly believe that that contract allowed us to be able to just somehow get in the game of having a conversation with this individual, with this owner. Rosemary Beach, give us more about where that is. Yes, so Rosemary Beach is on 30A. It's in Santa Rosa Beach, Florida. Um 30A is a scenic highway um in between Destin and Panama City. Um it's really comprised of um a few mixed-use urban developments. Um one being Seaside, Florida. One being Alys Beach, Florida, and the other is Rosemary Beach. Um so, that's where it is. Great. So, this is the the Destin the Destin area. Um which people uh from that part of the country will certainly know. Um others may not have been there, but it's a scenic and it's the the Panhandle of Florida. Pretty far west, right? Northwest Florida, right. Yeah. Yeah, Northwest Florida. Okay, great. And can you give us some hard numbers around what your real estate portfolio was worth and what you stood after selling it to have in your pocket? Sure. So, um I was all in for this portfolio for about a million dollars. And that was my cost basis. I had the portfolio under contract for 1.9 million. It was realistically probably worth 1.4 at the time. Um and I actually did not sell that portfolio. So Yeah, so it was under contract and I was going to roll the capital into the building in Rosemary and the business. And um so glad that that did not happen looking back. But a few of the properties um I was able to refinance fairly quickly to come up with the down payment for um the business. So you thought you were going to have about $900,000 in cash. $900,000. Right. Exactly. And then you didn't cuz the deal didn't close. Mhm. Um and instead you pulled cash out of your portfolio by refinancing it. Exactly. we were refinancing a few of the properties. Mhm. Yes. And and so that cash then how liquid were you? Um about 300,000. Great. Mhm. And um do you still own your portfolio today? I do not. I sold it um this past October. So Ah. Okay. Yep. What did you get for it? I got 1.4 million. So There's the 1.4. around what it was what it what it was worth. So Okay. Okay. Uh and how many units was it? Just curious. It was 31. 31 doors and what kind of property was it? All single family homes. Single family homes. Okay. Yep. All right. Great. And you and Carter are buds from college. How old are are the two of you? We are both 27. You're 27 now. 27 now. Mhm. And at the time this story is taking place you were 24, 25? We were 2021. 25. Um we really started conversations around buying a business around you know we started maybe doing a ghost kitchen. That's what we were really excited about and and really the ghost kitchen idea led to the the the the relationship of the Cowgirl Kitchen owner um through Carter and uh um So so then that was around July 2 years ago. 20 24 months ago. okay. So 2022. Cuz of course ghost kitchens the hype around ghost kitchens was peaking in the wake of COVID or right around after COVID. I I I actually thought it was earlier than 2022 kind of 2020 2020 2021 time frame. But anyway, 2022. So you guys thought you were going to do kind of a startup. A ghost kitchen startup. We did. Um and but but you you meet this in your 25-ish and you meet as you plot this you meet this woman who owns Cowgirl Kitchen. Right? That's where we are. Okay. So so So carry on. What How did that How does that conversation evolve, please? Yeah, so Carter met her. Um they had lunch. She owns a few other restaurants as well here on 30A and she owns a lot of real estate. Um she's been here forever and Carter and her had lunch and she she said, "Hey, you know, would love for you to come and work for me as a manager. Uh just letting you know though I am selling my Rosemary location to someone else. Um and she kind of gave a few of the numbers away. Um and then a few days later me and Carter are at the beach and he's telling me these numbers and I'm going, "Man, this is this could be a great multiple. Um seems like it's cash flowing fairly well and me and me and Carter were frequent frequent customers at Cal-Girl. We love Rosemary. We love going there with our wives. And we saw a lot of inefficiencies. We saw a lot of wait times, long ticket times, old school technology, no management in place. We began to become very interested. Mhm. Even though she wasn't she had already said she has a buyer. Yes. Mhm. Okay. But you thought that you would raise your hand and say, "Well, we're interested." And you thought she might be open to that? Exactly. And you know, at 25 we were we really didn't know what what we were doing and at 27 it's not like we really know what we're doing now. But but we came to her and we got on a Zoom call. And we said, "Hey, we want to buy everything. We want to buy your real estate. We want to buy all your restaurants. And at the time all I didn't have really any cash. I didn't I never sold the portfolio at the time. And so we were just shooting for the stars. We were just going for it and it doesn't hurt to ask. And I think she really loved that. She really loved that about us. Obviously, she did not sell everything to us. She only sold one asset to us, but I think she kind of uh enjoyed, you know, hey, these young guys are actually wanting to build and buy and make something happen. Exactly. And so so you guys so you had no money lined up. You did not have you had not done your refinancing. You had no money. No. You just just I love it. I love it, too. We want to buy We want to buy everything. Okay. So but before we get further along in the story, tell us about Cowgirl Kitchen. Tell us Tell us the the numbers first, and then I want to hear just about the kitchen and where it sits sits in the market kind of. How big it is, etc. So, what were these numbers that so impressed you? Yeah, so the numbers um I can't go into all of the numbers for this sales price just out of respect for um the previous owner and some people in the community. But we it was doing, you know, at least around half a million um from what we could tell in EBITDA. We didn't really understand the whole picture of the finances. Um and we But we really saw that that there was a lot of low-hanging fruit. Again, like I was saying, really not a ton of technology. They were working off really old iPads. Um no management in place. And owner was never around. And at the time, we're 25, so we're we were like, "Okay, we're just going to be here a lot if we do buy this place, and we can really manage well um even though we've never managed before in our lives." Uh we we We just thought that we could be present. And Cowgirl is a very laid-back restaurant within a very high-end area. So, our competition is really high-end restaurants. They're very expensive. And Cowgirl is more of a kickback cuisine where even even if you do own a house on the beach for 20 million, you still love to come up and come to Cowgirl, grab a pizza, grab a burger in your bathing suit, sandy feet, no shirt on, and grab a beer. That's Cowgirl. So, Mhm. um that's how we've been able to I feel like differentiate ourselves from the competition is our competition really is the high-end market. So. Well, it's it's so it's wonderful doubly that you're so clearly differentiated that you have a a clear value prop. And also also how convenient to be the low-cost option in a moneyed in a moneyed place where I mean all these people walking through the door shirtless with sandy feet are are well-to-do. So great market with no competition can't complain. It's obviously if they're walking with sandy feet it's on the beach. It's about 150 yards from the beach. You can see the beach from the restaurant. Mhm. Okay. And how many seats like or square footage however you might gauge the size of a restaurant how how big is it? So it's really small. Um the first floor is only 1200 square feet. So we only have about 60 or so seats including outside. Okay. So it's pretty tiny. Mhm. And and to the EBITDA number was about half a million in EBITDA or so you thought and and on revenue on revenue of of what would a margins look like in a nicely profitable restaurant? Um right now we're seeing our margins um around 30%. Oh. And so at the time we didn't really know what the sales were just because of the point of sale system um it included tips and sales tax and we just couldn't really understand what what the true net sales were. So that was a huge question and that kind of goes into the financing of the business um which she did seller finance a decent amount of of the business to us. Mhm. Um at a great rate. So more of more of a real estate loan, uh uh so to speak, compared to the typical SBA loan, uh which we took out for the next restaurant. Okay. Well, I well, I want to hear about that in in just a sec, but 30% but so call it uh whatever but somewhere between 1 and 1/2 and 2 million bucks in sales and revenue. That's very broad range, but does that feel right? Somewhere between 1 and 1/2 and 2 and 1/2, probably. Oh, okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Why was she selling this asset from her portfolio? She She had recently moved to a different part of 30A, and her other restaurants were in that area. Okay. So, she just wanted to be more over there, um in in the in that section, and Cowgirl is a very it just it just takes a lot to run it, and you need a lot of management, and I believe she had a few a few uh ma- a few managers come in and come out. Yeah. Some turnover. So, um that was the main reason. Great. Okay. So, yeah, can you now say a little bit more about the the deal, if you can't say multiple, but the maybe the terms and and the seller financing you were alluding to? Yeah, the terms were very interesting. Um so, since we were we were originally under contract on the building and the business, I believe this is how we were able to get such great terms. Um so, she amortized the loan the private note to us over 30 years. Wow. At a 6% interest rate. And we didn't really have to come down with a ton. We really We really had to come to the table with 10%. So, um not too bad, 90% loan-to-value for the business, and that got us in the game. That got us in the game of owning a business. So. And sorry, the real estate was part of that? It was going to be part of it if my deal had closed, but the deal did not close. So, um we ended up just buying the business. So, she still owns the She still owns the building. Yep. And she's great to work with. Um super easy to talk to, always a phone call away. But, yeah. 90% seller financing Mhm. on a 30-year am at 6% fixed. At 6% fixed and we really saw that as, you know, obviously we bought it and we secured a loan and we signed personal guarantees, but she believed in us. She I mean, that it it it it wasn't a gift, but it was great terms. And we also have to remember at the time, that rate was a little above market. So, Okay. like now it now it seems really nice, but at that time rates were really low and um but still as far as the 90% LTV goes, we took that as, "Hey, she's she believes in us. She's going to she's going to still make us pay for it over time, but she's taking a chance on these young guys who have never been in the restaurant business or have never owned a business and never owned restaurants before. Carter obviously has a ton of experience, but um we really saw it as her believing in us. So, very thankful for that. just I I want She may believe in you, but it's still like sh- you know, who cares? Like why why why give you guys such a deal? Especially when she claimed to have this other buyer on the hook. She could have and you know, you and I talking here, you guys would have gone higher. You would have you would have or done something for less generous terms. So, it is it's still curious to me why I mean she she you to say she believed in you, you could say that like just giving you the deal at like a market rate would have been believing in you. But, she gave but she not only gave you the deal and but and gave you good terms. I mean, it just I just wonder if there's more to it than that. Um Yeah, we Cuz that's a screaming that seems like a screaming deal. It was a screaming deal for us at the time cuz it allowed us to get in the game. I do think the market we we probably did overpay for the business. Um But, after owning it for a year, we were definitely okay with overpaying cuz we we increased EBITDA dramatically. Okay. Um so, multiple that we that we that we can't say was actually there. Of course, that's that's the big detail here that's that's missing from the picture. The multiple was maybe a little bit rich. Very rich. And if you know, if we would have got a SBA loan, it probably wouldn't have worked. Um a 10-year am or looking at it now, 10-year am maybe at a 7 8 9% interest rate probably wouldn't have worked and we wouldn't have been as comfortable. So, we both kind of met in the middle um us and her on agreeing on terms. So, Okay. And how old is she? She's in her 50s, late late 50s. Okay. So, she's going to be pushing 90 when you pay this thing off. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Okay. Well, really cool. And oh, by the way, Jackson, you know, I I recall from the pre-call you saying something I thought you were going to say but I haven't heard you say. You guys you aside from having the dream or the aspiration of becoming an entrepreneur, a guy in business, you wanted to live by the beach, right? And Carter, too? Yes. So, maybe that's implied cuz you moved to the beach, but maybe say a little bit more about that cuz cuz cuz this is kind of double dream actualization. Business owner and business owner in his flip-flops by the beach. We did. So, both of us separately have just when we were both in college, we had always imagined owning our own business and living at the beach. Um I grew up in Auburn. Love Auburn to death. Um could potentially move back at some point, but don't have any plans of moving back. And have always wanted to move here ever ever since I was in college. And this area is a really I mean, it's growing a lot. And I think just I saw a lot of the business owners here that did the exact same thing as business owners in Auburn, but they were making five to 10 times more than everyone in Auburn. And they live at the beach, and it's a small town, uh southern values. So, it just really made sense for us to move um for those aspects. For me personally, it really didn't make sense at all um from a career standpoint. I own properties in Montgomery, Alabama. And me and my wife were going to move to the beach. And she got a job she's an architect, so she got a job here, great job, but we didn't really move for that. We we really moved just cuz we wanted to be at the beach, so. Mhm. We did. Yeah. Well, I feel like the the story in the interview could end there and it would it would feel like a nice victory um just buying Cowgirl Cowgirl Kitchen um and it seems like a strong business and is next to the beach um but that is just chapter one. But before we hear about the next acquisition, how did it go? Like once you got in there as owners, not knowing the first thing about restaurants, what was that transition like? What did you learn? So, we learned a ton. Carter was operations, so he was full-time at the restaurant. He was um COO, so to speak. Chief Operating Officer, and I was more behind the scenes in the finances. We learned a ton, and we really learned how to work together, and how to communicate, which I think was huge. Me Me, my wife, Carter and his wife right right around the same time we closed Cowgirl, we all had dinner together, and hopefully this would be helpful for some of your listeners being partners and going into business together. We sat down, and we really said, "Hey, all four of us are partners now. It's not just me and Carter. Um cuz we're all a team. So, there going to be times where, you know, I stay late at the office. There going to be times where Carter stays late at the restaurant, and my wife might be upset at Carter because I'm working, and he's at home, or vice versa. And having that conversation with the four of us, I feel like really laid a foundation um for the wives, not just us. Cuz me and him, we can get along very well. We're first off friends, and we're business partners. We talk all day. But the wives don't necessarily do that. They're at home. Yeah. Um or they're at their own job, you know. So, I feel like that was a great foundation for us to lay um at the beginning, and which really I I feel like um put us on a great trajectory of a great partnership between the four of us. Yeah. Yeah, that's a that's a really uh yeah, that sounds like a very healthy healthy dinner to get to get all the two families together, the two couples together, and and really engage the partners, and talk about how they're going to they're in in this too. And what about this fact that you guys had no restaurant experience? Excuse me, Carter grew up in restaurants. Obviously why he was tapped as the as the GM or or operations guy there. But probably didn't have the experience of running a restaurant. So you know, we I said at the top restaurants are notorious as not good businesses. Uh one of the reasons is is because they're very hard businesses. Just operationally intense. Uh a lot of moving pieces, a lot of moving customers and plates and food. You just I mean I just I break a sweat thinking about it. So so how was that trial by fire? It was a trial by fire, for sure. Um you know, Carter really dove in and just became a sponge and he's great at learning on the fly and asking a million questions whenever you discuss anything with him. So he was able to learn very quickly how to manage um and and first off he's he's great with people. So he's great with relationships and communicating in person. So I feel like that just really helped out a lot, no matter what his experience was. Um plus given that he had some experience with his parents uh really helped out a lot as well. So he understood the restaurant lingo, the restaurant uh market so to speak. Um and the great thing is the actual restaurant there, Cowgirl, I joke around but we pay we don't spend any money in marketing. But the money we do spend in marketing is our rent. Cuz our rent is so high. Uh but what's great about our rent being so high is we have people. We open the door and people show up. Um Yeah. and we just have a ton of volume at that tiny little restaurant. So, we can't afford to have great employees and now we have great managers there. Um so, it is really able to stand on its own now without us. Yeah. Yeah. And the fact that it's small, it's got such a small footprint, is that a good thing? It was good for us at the beginning. Um just a a huge restaurant would have I feel like been very difficult for us to take over. But this was you know, we could touch mostly every table if we wanted to. Um and we we we didn't have a ton of employees either. And the finances of the business, the numbers, this half a million dollars in earnings, uh and and and the and the revenue, the sales that it generated, what did you learn once you got into the books and they were your books? We we learned that cost of goods um the cogs were way too high. Uh employees didn't have any incentive to order the amount that we actually needed. So, we started really checking the cogs, checking the labor. Labor was next to nothing because most of the servers would want to just be would just schedule themselves and be over six to seven tables. Um and running the restaurant and taking all the tips, but the customer wasn't really satisfied. The customer wasn't getting their food on a timely manner. So, that was very very difficult to change. So, we hired more people, had some turnover, but overall uh the restaurant really became a lot more profitable uh just cuz we were able to hire more people and focus on the COGS. Okay, so you you reduced your COGS, the the food costs essentially. We did. And you kind of basically got some new team members in there and tightened up how money was flowing through kind of flowing through from the customer to your cash register. Mhm. Okay. And that doubled earnings without doing anything to sales? Sales did increase. Um we So a huge part of this was we we did raise prices 10%. The prices hadn't been raised for 5-plus years. And just given the market, we raised them 10% and didn't see anyone com- complain. We were still less expensive than the so-and-so competition uh the high-end restaurants. So Yeah. Yes, that was huge. Um and then we did increase sales by we estimate around 10%. So total we had a lit- a little over 20% increase from the year before. Okay. Anything more to say about that before we move to your next acquisition? I think that's about it. Great. Okay, so then how does Pizza by the Sea come on your radar? So Pizza by the Sea came on the radar me and Carter have always been customers of Pizza by the Sea. We love Pizza by the Sea. We saw something very similar at Pizza by the Sea um just like we did at Cowgirl at the beginning. So not a lot of technology, their point of sale system had no data. You had to call um and each location only had one line. So it if someone was on the other line, you couldn't get through to place an order. You couldn't do any online ordering. And around this time, Carter uh we found a manager for Cowgirl. So, Carter had more time on his hands, so he wasn't operating he wasn't in the restaurant all day. And what what me and him have learned is whenever we sit down and really have long-form conversations over and over and over again, we can really spin up and try to figure out other opportunities. Which this was around July of last year. And we really got on the topic of Pizza by the Sea and estimating what they do in sales, estimating what they're worth. And we actually just found the previous owner's phone number on the second page of Google. And we're sitting in a coffee shop and Carter just called the guy. Cold called him. And he was able to he was available for lunch, so we over a few lunches, we struck up a deal. And then 5 months later through SBA, we purchased Pizza by the Sea in December of this past year. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. For a couple of laid-back beach guys, by the way, uh you're you are hustlers. Uh hustlers masquerading as beach bums. So, again, you are bold with an owner and and basically say, raise your hand out of nowhere and say, we want to buy you. Um this reminds me of the Godfather scene where you go in Godfather II, I think, where he's in Vegas. Uh and he just goes around to all his competition and and says, I'm going to buy you buy you, which leads to a war. I'm butchering it, but anyway, maybe somebody will catch the reference. Um, but just say it's so bold to be like, "I'm going to buy your business." Um, Well, that's not That's really not how the call went. The call was just like, "Hey, we own Cowgirl Kitchen. We bought it about a year ago. We'd love to sit down with you, learn more about Pizza by the Sea, and hear about what the future looks like for you." So, he Yeah. somehow knew where we were going with that. Yeah. without respectful though. It wasn't It wasn't audacious. I'm going to, you know, buy you out. But, I will say though, Jackson, like you guys you guys um, your self-confidence having now being a year into Cowgirl Kitchen, I guess is It It's about a year later, to be clear? Cuz is that what you said? It was actually less than that. It's probably 8 months, 9 months. Mhm. You I guess clearly you felt like you were capable restaurant guys now, that you could buy not only another restaurant, but a portfolio of I mean, a handful of additional restaurants. So, you'd really gotten your um, like I said, your self-confidence around restaurant operations up in those 8 months. For sure. For sure. We We We definitely felt a lot more confident about the product that we owned. Yeah. Mhm. And and also implied here is that turns out yes, you like the restaurant business. So, despite its bad reputation, you buy Cowgirl Kitchen, you get inside it, and you find that it is a strong business, and restaurants can indeed be strong businesses, and and you like the category. I mean, you're basically kind of making a thesis here, uh, as you go. Right. Right. Exactly. Okay. Well, and why Pizza by the Sea? You You You said that there were some some similarities. You were a fan of the restaurant, a patron of the restaurant. But, I assume in a tourist area like this, there's a lot of restaurants, so why specifically this one? This one again, you know, we we really want to buy nostalgic restaurants and what we saw with Pizza by the Sea is customers coming down for a week vacation and they're at least going to eat at Pizza by the Sea once. And it's it it it's this is a very family-friendly area. Um a lot of people rent large homes and bring two to three families in that house with kids and Pizza by the Sea is just great to feed a family quickly. Uh instead of going out to eat or going to the grocery store and cooking food, you can easily get Pizza by the Sea. So and when people do it once, they do it again, especially if it was really good. And what we're so blessed with is that is this restaurant has been doing this for 15 years. So there's a lot of nostalgia, a lot of history um with with the customers. So customers that have been eating here for 10 years and they might not even own a place here, but they've been vacationing here for 10 plus years. Uh so that coupled with each location only having one line, you know, we we saw some low-hanging fruit that could potentially be very very lucrative. And is it at this point where you your thesis becomes this nostalgic thing, this nostalgic restaurants, uh or was it kind of like you do Pizza by the Sea, we're going to go through that, uh and then you look back at your portfolio and you say, "Oh, we have Cowgirl Kitchen, we have Pizza by the Sea, these are kind of neighborhood institutions, everybody in town knows, every you know, people that the patrons come back again and again" sort of thing. There's a there's an emotional connection between these brands and their customers. Uh let's do more of that. Like when does that crystallize that thesis? It It was around this time whenever we made the cold call to the previous owner. Um you know, but we had also seen that at Cowgirl. We had seen the same thing. People come to Cowgirl for years and years and years and loving it. And they love certain certain dishes, certain salads, uh the pizza at Cowgirl. They love um the quesadilla, which I didn't understand why people like the quesadilla. It looked like I made it. I mean But people love it and and and and it's nostalgia and that's and that's what we saw in Pizza by the Sea as well. So. Okay. Okay. And on this point actually about people loving particular dishes, I would guess that not being much of a cook, I can barely cook anything, um that the one of the weaknesses of a restaurant business is that the quality of cook, line cook, chef. So, you know, I you know, there's a restaurant will have recipes, no doubt, but still, you know, the execution of those recipes matters and can vary. So, is there is there a weakness in fact in you or key man or key person risk in losing one of your cooks or not really? Is this Is this food basically um you know, this isn't high cuisine. So, is this is this food basically serviceable enough that any competent replacement cook could come in and do it well, sort of thing? Yes, and that's what and that's what we loved about it is there wasn't a ton of key man risk, especially with the pizza restaurant. Cowgirl, you know, you do have to have some experienced people in the kitchen, but nothing like these high-end restaurants at all. So, Yeah. Yeah. that was very enticing for us. Okay, well, tell us, please, about uh Pizza by the Sea's numbers, the business of the business. Sure. So, around this time, we we started getting on Twitter, and we had we had met Matthias, uh actually met him over Twitter, and found out about the SBA process. Matthias Smith, sponsor of acquired minds. yes. Who introduced us. Yeah, loan broker. Yeah. Yes. Um great guy. And he So, then we started figuring out, okay, I think we can potentially afford this. Um I think we can get qualified with the profits that we've made from Cowgirl, um along with our credit scores. So, that got us even more interested in Pizza by the Sea. It took the seller a while to send us all of the financials. Um his point of sale system was even worse than Cowgirl's. Um it was you couldn't gather any data. Um we actually had um a quality of earnings on it, and it was doing a little over 5 million a year in revenue. And this is across four locations. This is across four locations, um across 30A. Mhm. Keep going. Was there more? So, yeah. So, then we we hired uh Chris Barrett, who um Matthias introduced us to to do the quality of earnings, and Chris is now our accountant. He's great. Um and around this time, we were trying to figure out, okay, should we raise money to bring the down payment? Should we have an investor? Um or can we do this on our own? Um and we ended up doing it on our own. But but around this time we had we had made a decent amount of profits from Cowgirl. Me and Carter were both 26. We didn't want to buy a house. We didn't want to we we we don't spend a ton um personally. So we really wanted to double down and invest into another business. Um and so we basically just parlayed the profits of Cowgirl into our down payment for Pizza by the Sea. Mhm. And Pizza by the Sea on $5 million in revenue, what do those margins and SDE look like? Around a million. Mhm. And can you share terms of that deal? Yes. So the seller was pretty strict on his price. Our original LOI was based off a multiple just in case um anything came back on the quality of earnings that weren't accurate. Uh this this seller great guy. Um he's really good to all of his employees. Gives back to the community. Um family man. And he uh he actually did offer us some seller carry. Mhm. And that allowed us to not bring as much capital down to acquire the business. Um Matthias found us a banker, First Internet Bank. Um and they were great to work with. But the red tape of the SBA process was a full-time job for at least 3 months. Um Really? Oh yeah. Yeah. Wow. I hadn't heard I've never heard I know it's I know it's bad, but not that bad. It wasn't It It It wasn't all on the bank or it wasn't all on us. A lot of it had to do with the seller, but um yeah, and there was some negotiations negotiations back and forth, but it did take a while. And can you say what its multiple was or what the purchase price ultimately was? Yeah, it was 5 million dollars in SDE? Five five So, okay, five million dollars for a one million dollar SDE business. Mhm. Okay. And so, you are going to bring what? 10% to that transact? Can you share what the terms were, how much equity you brought, and how much seller note there was, and then what the SBA did of the rest? Yes, there was an 8% seller carry. Um we bought we we brought around 300,000 to the table of our own capital, and the rest was SBA. 300,000, so that's just over what? That's like 6%. Mhm. Okay. And so, they counted his seller Is it like a seller standby note? So, they counted it at kind of the bank counted it as equity, sort of thing? Kind of. Mhm. Okay. Um And how much did the bank look at your experience and success to date with Cowgirl? Was that a big part of the narrative to the underwriters? That was a huge part of it. Mhm. Say say more. What what Did they push you for that information? Did you guys come out of the gate selling yourselves on that information? What was that dance like? We did. We We came out of the out of the gate saying really what I just told you. Like, "Hey, this is very similar to the restaurant that we currently own. This is how we believe we can grow it. This is what we've done. Uh Um, is what sales were. This is what sales are now at the restaurant that we currently own. So, we really tried to sell ourselves as good operators. Um, and I and I do think that went a long way compared to us just having a pile of cash laying around saying, "Hey, we can afford it." They still want to see whether we do have experience, whether we can run a restaurant. Um, especially buying four more restaurants. Yeah. So. And, you know, it's your Cowgirl experience, too, is like you didn't have a J-curve. You you know, in very short order started, you know, um, juiced the the EBITDA that was coming out of the business. So, yeah. That's also the business where decline in profits for you. Thank you very much for the first little bit. Right. Right. That's also the the beauty the beautiful thing about restaurants, which not a lot of people talk about, is you know, you you you sell your product and you receive the capital right when you sell it. Yeah. So, you know, there's no accounts receivable um, in our business, which which allows us to really move at a fast rate and and allows us to make changes very quickly. Um, Yeah. so. And the other thing I like that you said is like at least given the location of Cowgirl's, like, you know, you open for business and then revenue just starts coming in. People are just I mean, cash all day. People are coming in from the moment the place is open till it's closed. Again, you pay for that. That's your marketing expense. It's not any cheap to have that kind of real estate, that kind of location. Not at all. And and then, okay, so how did it go once you got into a four-location business? How did I mean, you're you're really kind of um advancing through the levels of business and restaurant ownership quickly. So, so how did it go from uh a little 1,200 sq ft restaurant to now owning four pizza joints spread out? It was very different. We, you know, with four restaurants, you know, we can't be there at all at all times. There were four managers um at each restaurant and then two general managers. Um we let one of the general managers go and we have moved the other general manager more into an executive coordinator role. So, she handles all onboarding. She's been working at Pizza by the Sea for the past 12 years. She's the longest-standing tenured employee. So, there there was a lot of that. A lot of tenured employees who've been with Pizza by the Sea for a long time who really care about the product. Um but maybe didn't have as much coaching from the owner. So, that's what we really became were coaches. Um and really just a soundboard for people to come to us and uh really try to understand what to do, how to bring down cost, how to manage their labor. How to deal with customers. So, that more so became our job. Around the same time we um sort of renting out an office space to where the managers could come to us and have meetings, which has really helped out a lot. Oh, say more. Why? Well, just in the past, we didn't have an office space. So, we would meet, you know, at a coffee shop or at the restaurant. And at the restaurant, it's just very distracting. Now, the managers can come to us. We can really sit down at a quiet place and really just understand what their issues are, what their problems are. And it and it allows me and Carter to be much more efficient. So. Mhm. Mhm. And when you say that your roles at Peace by the Sea with the staff were very kind of coaching, were you Do you Did you have the direct experience that they were asking about? I sometimes where I'm The context here is that I sometimes hear about coaching mentorship and it's like is the person or often my guests who are looked to as obviously as the leader of the businesses they buy and looked to as the experts for certain things even if they have never done the thing, their team is looking to them for judgment. Do you feel like you always had a good answer? Is it because Carter had experience as a kid growing up in restaurants? Or was some of this some of the coaching that you were doing kind of just your own instincts and maybe being a little bit more business-minded than the staff? I mean, how did you have And you're And you're still young. So, even though you are business guys, budding business guys, you don't have years and decades of experience as business people or in careers. So, I'm just curious the nature of this of this coaching. Did you feel like you um What what what was the nature of it and did you feel like you were kind of faking it until you made it or did you feel like you were a good coach to your staff? I'm I'm I'm not saying that we had all the right answers at all. Uh we definitely didn't. We made a ton of mistakes throughout the process cuz we were learning how to coach as we're coaching. Um but I do think there was a a huge part of it was a lot of tenured managers and they, you know, me and Carter came in with completely sober eyes to the issues at hand. So, just from more of a common sense standpoint, um we were able to coach and make a few changes that to us were just very necessary. And around the same time, it was very clear to me and Carter that we are in order to grow the business, we are best our our best position is when we are sitting together and trying to create opportunity just like we did at Pizza by the Sea. That is where we're able to grow as a business, grow as an organization and truly continue to increase the EBITDA that we're trying to do. So, around the same time, we were like, okay, we can afford to hire a director of operations who has a ton of experience. So, we became we began hunting and we actually hired a a headhunter and he found us a rockstar guy with experience who is now our director of operations over all five restaurants, over Cowgirl and all of the Pizza by the Seas. And we're obviously still very involved, um but more so in now implementing culture, implementing some guidance and some financial guidance as well. But from the get-go, we knew that we are not going to have the experience of someone that has 20, 30 years of experience, which is the individual that we that we ended up hiring, um which has been huge for us. Well, that starts to feel like I have to say, Jackson, it starts to feel like you bought a business and put in operators. Uh and not the I mean, that's that's that's the magical thing. But um And maybe with maybe with restaurants, that's actually counterintuitively more viable as a as a formula because there are a lot of managers out there with restaurant experience because there are so many just restaurants in the world and people who have managed them. So, if you're you can find you can find that talent and and maybe if you're willing to you know, pay a little extra, you can find great talent. Um but it's just I'm just kind of I'm just kind of struck that you buy what are notoriously difficult businesses, i.e. restaurants, and you kind of you put in managers and operation operational and manage managerial talent and and it just it works. It it seems like it it has a you're kind of not spending you're not pulling your hair out, you're not there at the businesses. You can't be cuz you now have five locations. So, it's it's starting to feel easy, which of course it can't be. So, respond to that. Sure, it's definitely not easy and um you know, I think we wouldn't even have looked at these restaurants or looked at these opportunities if we didn't think there was margin to hire a rockstar. So, we weren't we weren't interested in buying these businesses to create jobs for us. We I I personally love deal making. I love the process of it. I love sitting down with a seller who's owned a business for 20 plus years and having them believe in us that we're going to carry on their legacy and buy from them. That's really special to me. Yeah. And special to Carter as well. And we both feel the exact same way on that. So, um our goal was never to be full-time restaurant owners with in the restaurant um making food, managing. Um so, I don't think we we would have even taken a look at these businesses or made offers if we didn't see the margin to truly hire a few great rockstars, which we have. And we we have a great team now. They have a ton of experience, much more than we do. Um so it's been truly a blessing. Well, the thing the good thing about buying a restaurant with multiple locations or any business with multiple locations, some sort of scale, is that it has demonstrated that it can be uh scaled somewhat. It's already demonstrated that that it's it's business model can be scaled somewhat. Um and survive. You you you know, you didn't have that confidence necessarily with Cow Girl Kitchen. Maybe you're not looking to do more Cow Girl Kitchen locations. Um but this one it's like, "Wow, if you can do if it has four locations, then um you know, each individual location shouldn't be super super fragile cuz it's already gotten to four and continued on. Speaking of that, uh was part of your thesis also with Pizza by the Sea that you would or part of the plan that you would keep growing locations or not necessarily? No, not necessarily. We Really? We We do feel like there is a um a few locations here on 30A that could they could be a potential for a Pizza by the Sea. Mhm. But really um as of right now, we're we're focused on offering delivery. So we truly believe that that can increase sales. Uh we have implemented online ordering, which has dramatically increased sales. We have um we purchased new pizza ovens, which are now stone conveyor pizza ovens. So, you know, there's a lot of people that love stone stone ovens to where instead of just a typical Papa John's or Pizza Hut conveyor. But there's just been this new pizza oven built out in Italy where it's a stone conveyor. So we're able to really produce um much more pizzas around 150 pizzas per hour uh for these pizza ovens which really has increased sales a lot. Mhm. So instead of opening up a new location, we we we we truly invested in new technology Mhm. and new pizza ovens. Mhm. And so where do sales stand today in aggregate for Pizza by the Sea, the four locations across the four locations? So it looks like we will do a little over what they did last year. Um little over 5 million. But EBITDA will increase um around 200 to 300,000 from last year. Mhm. And so your your sales have grown will have grown a little bit. But given your introduction of delivery and your CapEx investment in these ovens that can do higher volume are you expecting to get much beyond 5 million or a little over 5 million? Hopefully so. We'll see. Yeah. Okay. Well, you're a little over 5 million there and Cowgirl Kitchen is we didn't get the final number. What? 2 million? Well, I I can disclose what um the total acquisition EBITDA and then where we currently are. So we So with Cowgirl and with Pizza by the Sea at acquisition for both of those restaurants total was 1.5 million. Today we're a little over 2.2 million in EBITDA. So and that's been over the past less than 20 months. So we do feel like there's a little bit more room to grow there. But again, Mean Carter's most important roles are opportunity and growth. So we do feel like we can grow with some new acquisitions as well. Well, Jackson, this this is I'm sighing as if it's a bad thing, but this just seems like a fantastic story, amazing outcome. The only reason I'm sighing is because you know, I'm always I'm always so careful about not overselling the dream, but it seems like you're living it at the beach, portfolio five restaurants, super young guys, no J-curve, both both businesses, Cowgirl and these four Pizza by the Sea locations immediately saw EBITDA growth under your management. It's only been 20 months. Couple of partners who are friends doing 2.2 million in EBITDA. I mean what's not to love? Um We we wake up every day something? Am I am I missing something seriously, Jackson? Is there some negative that my audience is going to say, "Hey, why don't you ask him about this?" Well, I think you know, I mean yes, it's it's a great story and we feel so blessed to be in the position that we are. Um feel very undeserved at times of the position that we're in, but also we do understand that we are highly levered. So a this is this this has had you know, we're able to get here because of debt and we're very aware of that. Um so we have a lot of goals in place in the future to pay down debt, especially this high interest SBA loan. So, fully aware of that, but yes, you're right. It's we are so blessed and um, really excited to wake up every day and do what we do. It truly doesn't feel like work. I feel like we we work all the time, but uh, truly doesn't feel like it um, cuz it's just so much fun. Well, that is the the true dream, the the the meta dream that regardless of if you like the beach or the city or this type of business or that type of business, uh, we those are all minor taste compared to the big picture goal that anybody would love to achieve, that work feels like play. Um, and interesting about the debt point, although of course that so such a feature of all of these stories and deals, but you're now really in this capital allocation position, uh, where you've got a lot of a lot more cash coming out of these businesses than when you finance them. So, the question is, do you know do you plow that forward into the equity of the your next acquisition or do you start paying down some of that debt? Um, how how do you think about that? We really think about it from the standpoint of how can we invest cash to produce to produce the highest rate of return. So, for example, with the P7s, we're we should do around 200% based off the investment in those P7s, which will then allow us to be in a better position to pay down debt in a few years from now. But, our goal right now is only CapEx, really trying to grow these businesses the best they can with the highest rate of return on the CapEx to then in turn pay down that debt. You said we're and we're going to start wrapping up here, Jackson. Um, Um, so I want to kind of zoom out, um, and overall just ask about restaurants, your story. You said one of the beautiful things about restaurants is the cash conversion cycle is nearly instant. You know, it's it's the length of time it takes somebody eat to eat a meal, uh, then they pay for it as they walk out the door. The any other beautiful things, uh, about restaurants, beautiful features of restaurants as businesses that maybe we overlook when we um, when we recoil in horror from owning one? I honestly think there's not a lot of people that um, that that want to buy restaurants, so competition really isn't there. Um, Yeah. I think that's a huge aspect compared to an HVAC business. I mean, I have Great point. I have a lot of friends in investment banking and private equity. And they're all interested in moving to the beach and buying an HVAC business. And, you know, that's just not a reality. It's it's really very difficult to do that. Um, cuz HVAC is obviously very saturated right now. Um, but they're still great businesses. They're amazing businesses. But, uh, you very rarely hear of the um, PE IB guy saying, "All right, I'm going to move to the beach and buy a restaurant." That's right. Um, so I do think that has been an advantage to us cuz, um, we're not the smartest guys on the street. But, we're we're able to be in this niche that really produces a lot of cash. Um, you can acquire at great multiples. And you can really increase the EBITDA at a fairly quick rate um, for what we've seen. And obviously timing has been great. We're in a great location. 30A is growing. The area is growing a lot. So, there's that aspect as well. It's not it's not just the businesses. A very important point that comes up from time to time. I've had more than two, I think, North Carolina or Charlotte-based guests talk about how just being in Charlotte has has been a key feature of their success and growth. Charlotte being a a growth market, of course. And so, while you're in you're not in some metropolitan area, you're in kind of a tourist small micro market. Mhm. It is one that is growing. So, growth you really feel that. We do. And there's less Obviously, the summers are our busiest time. But, a lot of people are moving here full-time, similar to us. Um people are moving from Atlanta, Nashville, Birmingham, even Charlotte, and moving to the beach. Uh they love this area. They they love what the beach life has to offer. Um great restaurants, great community, small town. So, we're we're definitely seeing less of the low season. Um and and it's and and it's more even uh across the year than it has been in the past. And thank you for that. I had meant to ask about that and forgot. The seasonality of these businesses being in a tourist town. Um anything more to say about it than than what you just said? That yes, revenue is concentrated in certain months and thinner in other months, but manage cash flow and it's okay, sort of thing? So, we're actually So, occupancy is actually down this summer from last year. And this area is becoming more of a more of a third home area. It's not just a second home where people have a beach house. It's it's a third home where people have They might have a mountain house and a beach house. So, it's becoming even more just just because of how expensive everything is. Some of these owners aren't even renting their house out um at the beach. That they just own it. And if they want to come, they come. They don't want anyone else staying there. They they need the capital. So, that has that has hurt the summer a little bit. But also in the fall, fall break has become very popular. Um these families that own these beach homes, they come for Thanksgiving, they come for Christmas. Um they come for other holidays, they come for wine festivals in February. Um so, it's again, summer has dropped off a little bit, but our low low season has actually increased a little bit as well. Mhm. To compensate. Very nice. Mhm. Which we're great with that, you know. I would I would actually rather have it that way. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And I'm smoothing out the revenue stream. You said that these businesses are you can really do a lot to improve EBITDA, as you have demonstrated. Give a You've already touched on it or said them in passing, but give us kind of a top three, top five list that for the searcher looking at a restaurant, where classic low-hanging fruit lives. You've mentioned POS for a while a few times. I assume that's one of them. What would be on this list? Yes, definitely point of sale system. Um and then and then so for Peaches by the Sea, we did not increase prices, but for Cowgirl, um for for anyone listening looking to acquire a restaurant, look at the competition and what those prices are. And just match the competition. Um so, that was huge for us. Point of sale system, raise prices, and really really focus in on purchase logs and your cost of goods. So, we have just recently implemented that. Our director of operations has implemented it. And so, each manager really understands what the purchases are, what they're for, and um that can really crank down your cost of goods. And and so, sorry, what was happening there, Jackson? There was just kind of like stuff being ordered like um and not nobody was minding that. It was all on kind of auto ordering, so all this stuff was being ordered automatically that the business didn't need or over ordered sort of thing? Right. There was really no data. So, you know, the manager would say, "Oh, I think we're going to be busy next week. Let's just order this many dough balls uh for pizza without any data backing it. Mhm. Uh so, Okay. really really I mean as much data as you can gather and analyze, it's it's very helpful. The other thing I would say about restaurants is if you buy a restaurant like the the dis- nostalgic restaurant like you guys are going after is the the role that the brand plays and as we know, Warren Buffett is a huge believer and advocate of strong brands. So, you know, brands are great when they're strong only. But if they are strong, there is this um there's a lot of value locked up in that uh and a lot of kind of um customer loyalty at etc. And that seems like a big feature of the businesses that you've bought and and likely will buy in the future. Indeed, your whole thesis. That's that's really when you talk about nostalgia, that kind of implies brands that people have an affinity for. It is. It is. Um you know, I I was listening to your podcast with Garrison Snell and he talked about Warren Buffett, uh you know, the greatest brand in the world is probably Harvard. Yeah. And you know, that was so interesting. But really for us, the the great thing about having a having a great brand is it gives you the margin to learn and the margin to make mistakes. So, if we were to just start a new restaurant with a whole new concept with, you know, let's call it Jackson Carter's restaurant. Mhm. We it better be good and the food better be rock solid. I mean, it it better be great cuz for our market, we only get a week for our customer. Um mostly. We Our customer is coming down on vacation and they're only here for a week. So, we have to capture them very quickly in order to stay in business. Um and we've seen that with the new restaurants here is it's very difficult to capture a night of the week from someone else who's been here for 15 plus years. Um So, that's great about the customers that we have and it really truly does allow us maybe maybe their case of beer wasn't great or maybe they didn't have the best experience with that server, but they've been coming here for 10 years. So, you know what? We'll give them a second chance next year. Yes. Compared to, "Hey, we tried out this new place. Server was rude to us. We're not coming back." Cuz there's no memories there. There might be memories of conversations that were had at our restaurant 10 years ago. Um Stories of kids when they grew up, they they would eat ice cream or they would eat our cookies at Peaches by the Sea and the parents love that. Maybe maybe this maybe the cashier isn't very friendly, but hey, there's a ton of memories there. So, that's that's the customer that we were able to um in inherit and if we can it it it if we can just cut down on those bad experiences, we're going to be in a great spot. That was so powerful. That is so That is such a compelling argument for your thesis. I love that. And and and specifically, of course, around um entrepreneurship through acquisition as applied to restaurants. So, we talk, of course, this whole podcast is about the value of buying a business versus starting one. And here, you've just articulated such a strong reason why the ETA model um when applied to restaurants is it can be such a big advantage in over, you know, in the landscape of restaurants, the highly competitive landscape of restaurants. I'll even give you a I mean, you were as I listened to you talk, I was like, "Wow, he just told my story." I I grew up uh going to a place we would go to the Charlottesville area a lot, Charlottesville, Virginia. Little town outside Charlottesville called Crozet, which is now kind of become a suburb of Charlottesville, but at the time, it was a little stand-alone country town. Place called Crozet Pizza. Probably anybody who went to Darden or UVA knows it. Um but I I've been going there since the '80s. And um anytime uh we're down that way these days, I still insist on going, even though the place has changed and expanded. It's more of a bar now. But you know, but my my childhood nostalgia keeps me going back. Uh and again, even in the face of the experience today is is nothing like what it was as a as a kid. Frankly, the quality's gone down. It's less cozy, less cool, less funky. Um but I still insist. Crozet Pizza, we're going. And that's it. And that's how people feel. That's awesome. That's great. And I'm sure a lot of people can relate. I mean, I'm obviously you like you haven't had great experiences there recently, but there's so many memories built in that you're you're a lifetime customer. And you know, they probably acquired you for very low amount back in the day. And uh you know, someone new can acquire you as a lifetime customer for a great multiple. And that's what people I feel like don't understand with restaurants is you know, you can buy these lifetime customers. And the value of them is much higher than uh even the multiple that you're paying for. So. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and and and another just kind of to reinforce this point, the guests of mine that have bought restaurants or the big standout episodes was a recent episode with Jared Jared Burke in Hanover, New Hampshire. Home of Dartmouth. And he bought uh Lou's, which is a diner that anybody who spent time at Dartmouth has passed through Hanover knows has likely eaten at. So again, a neighborhood institution, you know, these neighborhood institutions, these brands which is again kind of another way of saying brand. Um Andrew Seave uh bought a a bought a restaurant in Colorado. Uh same thing. A uh restaurant everybody in the neighborhood knew and loved. So So that really seems to be where where where the formula is. I'm sure there are exceptions of course. I've also had guests who bought restaurants that are in franchise systems, but that's a whole different kind of uh type of business. Um cuz it cuz it's about franchising at that point. But um So. And and so it sounds like you're um such a believer in this that your go-forward plan, you and Carter, is to buy brand nostalgic restaurants. That is the type of business you're going to go after and build your whole HoldsCo and portfolio around. For sure. That's it. Or or am I over or am I overstating it? Are you looking at other businesses? No, that's it. That's it. Um restaurants that have long customers who have been going there for a long time and um, the value of those customers are are high. Yeah. Yeah. Mhm. And and just I I don't want to belabor belabor this, but this is so um, such a again a thing that scares people off about restaurants and I I kind of started at the top pointing this one out. I want to close with it. Operating them. Your What is your and Carter's time on site at these businesses today? And So, answer that and and then kind of again just give me a little bit more on how people can think about finding operational talent to run these businesses for you. So, on site we're not even once a week. So, we're unless we're eating there or or or something really bad has happened. So, yeah, probably less than Great. once a week. And and you feel like that's a model that if I wanted to buy a neighborhood institution here in Arlington, Virginia, um, I could replicate that that this model of, you know, I'd probably want to first time doing it probably want to get in there and get some operational experience, front line experience, but eventually there's talent out there who can run these restaurants for you. There is and but it but but it it it it also comes at a price, you know. We overpay, not we don't overpay. We we overpay compared to our competition in managers, for sure. But again, we we would not have even been interested in the businesses if we didn't think that there was margin to hire these people. Jackson, I'm going to let you go here, um, but didn't you go to Harvard Business School HBS's ETA conference? I did. And uh, and what was was experience there? To It was It was great. I I had a great time. I went with a buddy of mine. And uh that that's where I met Matthias in person. And Chris Barrett, our QV guy, now our accountant. But it was interesting. I met a lot of the Harvard students, met a lot of um XPE guys. And whenever I would explain to them, you know, what I do, there was really no interest in restaurants. And nothing wrong with that. I didn't get offended by it at all. But uh it was just very interesting that, you know, people wanted to buy the, you know, the the now sexy plumbing company. Uh which those are great businesses uh obviously. That's why they're interested in them. But I wouldn't I would really just recommend to people that hey, just take a look at restaurants and especially the nostalgic restaurant in the city that you live in. You would probably be surprised at what they do per year. Great. I I just I just so love that. Coming from kind of tech land as I do, I'm going to make an analogy here, which might be a bit of a stretch, but um you know, you just hear often you know, there there's some herd mentality with VCs and what they want to invest in. Of course, now AI would be AI, but it's been before it's been crypto and mobile and etc. Go go go on back through the the years of tech trends. And there's very much a herd mentality there. As smart as all these VCs are, uh at least on paper, there there's a lot of herd mentality that goes on uh and with those investing decisions. And the entrepreneurs and the ones who are often later heralded are the ones that are tinkering over in this neglected area. Maybe the thing is too new. So, there's some of that, you know, they're just they're just so ahead of the game. Um but but often it's you know, the people who do really well in maybe all investing are those who are looking in unsexy uh undiscovered, neglected, overlooked, unloved areas and the supposedly smart money is really just competing with itself over over here where the action is. So, I don't know. I I just I feel like it just your story of being at HBS and all these people wanting the same type of business, the HVAC thing and the HVAC business, and there you guys are making a killing in in restaurants in a beach town. Um it just feels like there's a there's a there's a there's a a model there that I've seen before uh that that dynamic. So, kudos to you guys for for being on the right side of that the right side of that uh that story. Well, well, thank you. I mean, so far so good, you know. Right. Could change and we're very well aware of that. But so far so good. Yeah. Right. Right. Final point to make uh or to remake just how you guys just ask, you know, you you approached Cowgirl Kitchen uh the Cowgirl Kitchen owner, you approached the Pizza by the Sea uh owner, and doesn't hurt to ask seems like a philosophy, a credo that you all uh really live by and you have been uh rewarded for doing so. Doesn't hurt to ask at all. Especially ask for seller financing. Uh okay, Jackson. If people have questions, audience remember if you're going to ask for Jackson or Carter's time, uh do so very respectfully having done all your homework. Uh Jackson, how can people reach out? Sure. Me and Carter are both on Twitter. Not as active as we set out to be, but we're both on Twitter. Just JacksonSpeaks and Carter Andrews. And we also have a website where you can find our email if you want to get in touch with us. It's cowboygroup .co. And that's it. you're going with the cowboy brand, huh? For your holdco? Going with the cowboy brand, that's right. So, feel free to like reach out to us with any questions and uh we'd be happy to get back with you. So. All right. Yeah. All right, Jackson speaks. Great interview, fascinating and uh inspiring story. Um so, thanks for coming on. Thanks for sharing. Thank you. I appreciate it. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Make sure you subscribe to the Acquiring Minds channel below. We are now publishing twice a week. So, tons of new interviews and stories to come. Stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business.