PMG capita weight they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars a year just writing bids and so we have produced a tool that helps these companies write better bids in less time and I was doing a bit of everything but it was all problem solving and it was all with a view to making the business run like a machine figuring the system out and I fell in love with it and after that I was like this is what I want to do this is who I am today's guest is Raj Kera who's a co-founder of aut Nai which is the UK's fastest growing AI company which specializes in helping people to write Tenders in minutes rather than days at the time of recording Raj is the CEO she's now become the deputy CEO and they've also announced a series B round of around $40 million Raj is incredibly multi-talented and she's also a published author a lawyer and also founded the pink glood project and South Asian therapist.org in this episode we've run through her journey all the lesson she's learned and I'm sure it will inspire you in your own career I'm Amma and we're the bay HQ and we Inspire connect and scale British asan entrepreneurs and this podcast is powered by HSBC Innovation banking please help us make a bigger impact by subscribing enjoy the episode so you've done so much amazing work throughout your life thank you but growing up what were your Ambitions what did you you want to be it's funny because growing up I had multiple Ambitions so I've always wanted to be an actress I wanted to be an actress from a very early age and I sustained at least the interest in acting by doing an a level in drama Etc but in parallel I also wanted a quote unquote serious career and the first career I really wanted was I was desperate to be a dentist you know from the age of about 12 to maybe 17 I just madly wanted to be a dentist like nothing else and then I wanted to be a doctor for a long time so those were my like childhood Ambitions you know acting and then in parallel something very medical and science related what was the like driver behind the medical side of things was it your own beliefs or was it people in the community because obviously doctors is such a prestigious sub that many people listening probably their parents wanted them to become doctors I think it's you know there's multiple elements so the first one is that I've always Lov science I did science all the way through to a level I did all science a levels I did a science degree you know I've got an undergraduate in biology I've I absolutely love biology so I was very interested in it and I don't come from an educated family I don't you know I come from a bluecollar background truth be told I just didn't know what jobs existed I was like okay well if I want to help people and I like science doctors what I can do you know I didn't realize that there were other options available and I think that also heavily informed the types of decisions I made at that age obviously then as I got old and went to University and realized there were lots more things that I could do I decided I didn't want to be a doctor anymore but yeah that's that's where it came from the love of biology and also the idea of wanting to help people and make a change so you obviously have done that throughout your life but from biology where did you then go to there because you didn't from what I remember you didn't then go to become a doctor right no so I went to University in Canada and in Canada and America you can do something called a double major which is a bit like a dual degree so I have always been interested in systems and how things work and the two systems that I feel are most relevant to me are one is my body so I did biology and the second one is politics so that's the system of how the world works and the world that we live in so I also did a political science degree in parallel and it was during that degree that I was like H actually I much prefer language and arguing and debate and the idea of change through social reform and again having very limited ideas of what kinds of careers were available I was like ooh I can do that by being a lawyer and then you know there's a longer story around that obviously I eventually became a lawyer and I realized that if you want to influence large scale social change there's many other ways in which you can do that and so I obviously do that now side of desk through the pink Leo project and my books and other things but um that was kind of where the ideas came from I've always I've always been a big believer in change and social reform and systems and I think it comes from moving to Canada at a young AG age because I had the very fortunate vantage point of knowing that a different life is possible so I grew up in the UK with an NHS and then I moved to Canada where they didn't have that kind of system and it taught me from a very young age that the world that you live in isn't a foregone conclusion and different systems and lives are possible but you get there through reform and campaigning and mass social change one interesting things I told earlier as well with somebody is that so many people have been in this podcast have either been born abroad or lived abroad for a long time and I think that really like shows that like you said you show you see different systems you see oh this was better in this country and this is better in this country and it shows you those different options and we're really like trying to work out like why have so many people have that experience it's obviously true for you too and you said how that Insight was like well why don't we have this and it's the idea that things can be better than they are yeah and that they can be different right and I think when you're young and you if you grow up in one place you just I don't know if you get exposed to that in the same way you probably learn it at a much later age but I learned it very very early you know through the benefit of moving abroad and you obviously said that you decided that being a lawyer wasn't the best way for you to make an impact but you think still that being a lawyer taught you a lot of skills that were useful later in your life because obviously there's going to be some people listening right now who are lawyers who are thinking is this right for me is this not right for me but did you learn great skills from that or not I learned a lot from from my years working in a corporate law firm I can't say that being a lawyer or doing a law degree taught me much I think the skills that I call on most heavily and called on most heavily in my legal work were all of my the things that science taught me so first principles thinking um always reflecting on causality versus correlation looking at you know uh doing a lot of root cause analysis being heavily analytical that is the stuff that I draw on every single day and that is the stuff that I drew on heavily in my legal career it's also it's interesting because people would say you know how did you learn to write like a lawyer actually legal writing and scientific writing is very similar it has to be very direct has to be very clear often it has to be very succinct regardless of what you might feel about lawyers writing things that are longer than they need to be and so you know when I was writing things as a lawyer I would often call on my training from doing lab reports you know as a biology student in terms of when I was figuring out or deciding how to communicate a particular point or how to structure an argument or how to you know illustrate something so I can't say that actually being a lawyer taught me all that much it's one of the interesting point as well because I know there's some you're passionate about too is that that side of debating that you were able to learn from science and from law has made such a difference in people's careers right and one of the big difference is for some people who maybe weren't born in a privileged environment they didn't get taught that rhetoric and how to make their arguments points clearly and I know like different organizations are trying to really help that because it's a big difference maker I think and obviously because you've got that skill that's open up so many doors in your career but you mentioned as well briefly about the pink Glo project and your books as well so we're going to focus on also for a lot of this but for the audience who aren't aware of that what is that what is the pck Lundy project well before we move on to that I think what you said before is really interesting about public versus State education and the idea of debate and one of my very good friends um Dr Emma Taylor she did a PhD at LSC and she actually did it in this concept of confidence is the differentiator and she did a whole sort of PhD thesis on how confidence is taught and inculcated into children in the private paid School setting versus the public setting and how that goes on to be the thing that really sets them apart so I think yeah you've na something there uh the Ping L project is a passion project of mine I am a firm believer in equal rights and gender equality and again you know borrowing from my scientific background I was very annoyed and frustrated by the poor treatment of women and I did a lot of thinking around where does this come from when I was doing my sort of root cause analysis trees and all all of that stuff it's like okay women are treated badly because there's this idea that women are inferior where did this idea that women are inferior take hold I personally believe that one one of the ways it took hold is through sexist customer tradition because sexist customer tradition promotes the idea that women are inferior through this weird intergenerational propaganda and then they are treated poorly based on that idea and so I thought if I really want to improve the situation of women we need to get to the root cause and the first sexist custom that you will experience as a South Asian is the custom of a girl's birth being ignored while a boy's birth is celebrated so for me I thought why not just start there plus the call to action is very simple right like it's very different if you're telling people to celebrate their daughters versus if you're saying educate your girls or give up dowy that can feel I'm not saying it is preachy but it can feel preachy and you're asking people to give something up they're like why should I give up diary I want this money but there's no exchange when it comes to celebrating your daughter you're not giving anything up you're just doing something that's very simple and so I thought actually this call to action is quite potent and there was a big element of Faking it to I made it right I was like I know brown people we copy each other we've all been to the first wedding that I had a nice sculpture and then every wedding after that I had a nice sculpture in a chocolate fountain you're laughing because I feel like you've experienced this so I thought if I can get one family to celebrate their daughter's birth I bet you anything I will put money on it that all other Asian families will follow and that's kind of what happened it was also the the Advent of virality on like things like Facebook and Instagram and I just really capitalized on that I convinced a few families to celebrate their daughters with pink Leo shared pictures of it wildly in September 2015 and then within 4 months pink Leo were the bestselling Suite in Indian sweet shops across Canada US Australia and the UK so it was it was that was the thesis that if I can show that people are doing it people will do it and it's funny isn't it because it's chicken and egg and that's a lot of how marketing works but if you can just tap into that element of how people think I think you can really nudge their behavior and influence their thinking and hopefully change the world absolutely and and this something we're passionate about as well in terms of because there's one element I think of what we're doing is we're showcasing Great South Asian female role models right and that's for women to be able to see people who look like them who do incredible things but another big part of it as well I think behind the scenes is it's normalizing it so that men keep seeing incredible fale entrepreneurs so it's no longer a weird thing to them or no longer like oh that person's done well considering they're a Woman They just see so many examples that it doesn't even become a consideration anymore mhm so that's one of the ways we're trying to fight the unconscious bias by keep showcasing people like you it's but like there's actually like so many female entrepreneurs who've done incredible things you're if you sleep on them and you don't like pay attention to what they're doing you're losing out you might lose that investment you might not be able to do what you think is right because you're not paying attention to what's going on in that aspect as well I think female exceptional no that's not not the right word so women being exceptional was something that was never a surprise to me as a child I grew up around exceptional women My grandmother raised us she was the single mother of three in India in the 50s and 60s and she was formidable you know so I never grew up thinking women can't do what men can cuz I saw them do it plus she was like six foot tall you know so there was never this idea that women are Meek either because she wasn't Meek she was massive and so for me it's never really been about capability as much as it's been about worth there is the capability thing because I accept that whilst it wasn't an issue for me it is for many but for me it was always about worth I always kind of grew up knowing that I might be as capable as my brother and I might go on to do whatever he does but I will never quite be as worthy as him that if we both die in a car accident his death will be perceived as a bigger tragedy than mine because he's the only son and that is something that I think never leaves you because you can deal with the capability thing quite easily you know you showcase people like me and dimple Patel and others and you know there's books about these kinds of things now but that worthiness thing is something that is much more difficult and it is very intimately linked to things like not celebrating your daughters at Birth because we ACH we celebrate women for their achievements but men for their existence and that's a big thing yeah absolutely and I think that's to honest that's how I initially heard of you through the pink BL project and I can never say that word proper my mom always makes fun of me so I'm not going to say that again but it's me being W i' would have been like early 20s right you could see this online right and I just saw so many people sharing it and I've got two sisters so for me again it was never a thing where I'm pretty sure I'm not the favorite but it's the idea that I grew up around strong female people as well but it's like you said we see so many other families which don't have that mentality and thinking about how we can solve that problem for them and to like you said highlight this issue that is really important it's not just a family issue either this is like a big so global social problem right I mean we still do not have enough women in Parliament women are sort of mistreated in the medical sphere medicine biology law are all biased against women data is biased anybody just needs to go and read invisible women by uh Caroline cre Perez and you'll see that the world really is set up for men by men right so this is not a uniquely South Asian issue gender bias is not a uniquely South Asian problem so I think even though your sisters might not feel it in your family I'd argue that they probably feel it everywhere else they would have internalized messages about women's inferiority at school you know in literature on TV magazines movies music science art like all of these things are constantly communicating this message sometimes directly sometimes subtly that women are inferior to men so even if you deal with it in your home sphere you will still ingest that elsewhere so that's kind of I sort of say to people that the world is heinous you know like you need to celebrate your daughters even if everything is fine in your house because you cannot repeat that message to women enough that they are worthy because the world is constantly trying to undo that from them and take that away and so yeah I think even though your household and your family might be equal it be interesting to see the way other ways in which your sisters might have internalized these messages hey everyone we hope you're enjoying this episode so far quick note from our sponsors who make this all possible from firsttime Founders to the funds that back them Innovation needs different HSBC Innovation banking is proud to accelerate growth for Tech and life science businesses creating meaningful connections and opening up a world of opportunity for entrepreneurs and investors alike discover more at HSBC innov banking.com back to the show and you mentioned there as well books right so you've obviously written a book yourself can you tell us about that so I've written two books one is called stories for South Asian Supergirls it's a collection of biographies of notable South Asian women for me it's really important that we sort of oppose the media's narrative that South Asian women are weak and need rescuing because we are not weak and we do not need rescuing we all hail from um a linear age of very strong capable independent successful strong willed women I think it's really important that young children have a resource like that to access so that they can access their own history in a decolonized semi unbiased way my second book is a bit more playful it's a children's picture book called The Night the reindeer Saved Christmas and that is a story um with a diverse you know um Santa team so Mr and Mrs Claus are diverse as are all the elves and it teaches children about the fact that Santa's reindeer are actually female because only female reindeer have their antlers in winter so therefore all the reindeer that pull Santa slay a women yeah that's guy didn't know that that's that's pretty cool it's a classic example of women doing all the work and a guy getting all the credit yeah and the guy the guy sitting at the back just like getting pulled along exactly we mentioned if you pick up with your career there so obviously you had the law career MH and then now you're leading this massive company there's some steps in between there and like feel like sitting on the Journey like how did you get from being a lawyer to now running this company it's so funny cuz things make sense in hindsight don't they like Steve Jobs even though I'm not a Steve Jobs fan says the the the dots connect in retrospect right and I couldn't get a legal job when I graduated I graduated in the financial crisis so I was like what am I going to do and I went and got a job at Accenture as a analyst as most people do and I worked there for some time until I was made an offer by a corporate law firm in London and I think my time at Accenture really taught me that what I Love Actually is getting done I'm a complete a finisher I'm a heavily analytical person I love looking at problems and figuring out a way through but I didn't really know this about myself yet because I only ever really took Accenture so that I could become a lawyer somewhere else and it wasn't until I was at the law firm and I was doing this and I was like I don't this isn't my thing the only thing I could see myself really doing here is litigation and they don't want me and all the stuff doesn't interest me so I really don't want to do this and I actually actually just like stumbled into my first role outside of law working for Sean who is incidentally I'm the co-founder now of his business and he he had just started his first business Cornell and I just had a coffee with him and he just said you seem smart I need smart people can you just come and be a generalist do a bit of everything and it was amazing because one week I was working on HR stuff next week I was looking at Finance next week I was looking at how are we going to onboard our clients when we get them what does our sales strategy look like and I was doing a bit of everything but it was all problem solving and it was all with a view to making the business run like a machine figuring the system out and I fell in love with it and after that I was like this is what I want to do this is who I am and so I left that business after a year and I went on to do the same thing for fast growth venture capital or private Equity backed businesses in London and sort of across Europe where I would go in and look at the business holistically and say these are the things that I think are on fire and these are the reasons why I think you're not achieving whatever this target is and come up with plans on how to fix it and then fix it and I've done this for about 15 or 20 businesses over the last sort of five or six years last March I had actually made the decision that I was going to stop I was going to work on pink Leo full-time I you know was going to work on South Asian therapist which is like a side business mental health directory and you know I'd set up my life so that I could Now work on my own projects and two days later Shan Williams uh who's you know the founder I worked for the first startup messaged me saying hey so I've sold Cornell which is my first business a millionaire now I should be retiring but I've got this AI thing in my head and I can't stop thinking about it do you want to come on board and I'd always said of all the founders I've ever worked with he's the only one I'd work for again and it just felt like the universe saying to me you've got one more in you and um here we are if we dive into that period a bit of just like you going into these companies and transforming them what are some of the things that you kept seeing that maybe some of the businesses or Founders listening to this right now might be experiencing themselves what some of the common problems you saw that you were able to solve so I mean I when I look at a business I look across different functions so one of the main things I would see in product engineering was a lot of technical debt where the teams had rushed things into production they were not doing proper QA they were not doing you know sort of proper testing and that led to a product that was very big very inefficient full of bugs and you know just just required a massive database just to run so a lot of technical debt I would also see teams not being commercial enough about how to decide what product features to try and build next I've worked with a lot of CEOs who were very reactive and just wanted to chase the Big Shiny thing in front of their faces and the product was constantly pivoting and then you end up with the situation that you've got this Frankenstein that you're trying to sell that just doesn't really make sense it's kind of become too bespoke for too many big clients and now you've ended up with five bespoke products as opposed to one thing you can sell everybody with add-ons that's what I would see in the marketing function and sales I would often see a very poor marketing strategy where there just wasn't in our Focus the channels weren't being approached properly there wasn't enough sort of analysis being done on return on investment nobody was really monitoring where the leads were coming from if they're paying off that kind of thing and I could talk you through every single department but I think you know this would be like an hourong podcast just on that so there are certain things and I always say that I never worked for an exceptional startups like I never worked other than Corell I never worked for any that were like where the next stripe or where the next this I've worked for a lot of businesses who did things very very badly so it taught me what not to do and it taught me all the Mad ways in which people do it wrong and personally I think that's actually maybe more valuable than working for one or two startups that do it perfectly because there is more than one way of doing things right but you also need to know what can happen if you do things in certain other ways that could be disastrous for the business so tell us what AED AI actually does like explain it the product for us so so I always joke now that we are a very unsexy application of a very sexy technology so we take the technology of large language models and text producing Ai and we apply it to the very real business problem of writing bids tenders and proposals so lots of you know governments spend hundreds of billions of dollars a year on government contracts right if you want to change all the light bulbs in every NHS Hospital how do you do it you put out a tender you ask people to respond to your tender and tell you why you should buy all your light bulbs from them and so companies will respond to these tenders and they spend like hundreds of millions of pounds a year producing these bids with the hope that they might win one of these contracts it's very very boring but it's very very lucrative so companies like KPMG capita weight they're spending hundreds of millions of dollars a year just writing bids and so we have produced a tool that helps these companies write better bids in less time so obviously that means that you win more work and you win more work more efficiently and the idea is that that will revolutionize your business and we're already seeing this in some of our clients who have like doubled their revenue they've been writing their bids with auto Genai and it's allowed them to you know double or triple what they bid for and then double what they actually win and you know it's having serious impact on their revenues so that's what we do like I said it's a very unsex application of a very sexy Tech but look bids are the most technical piece of business writing and when we looked at text producing AI we were like businesses will pay for this but businesses will only pay for this if it's solving an expensive problem and if it's if you can apply it to a piece of writing that is absolutely business critical so bid writing is business critical because it is writing that actually produces revenue and it is very very expensive to write a bid because the human hours that are required are insane so that's what we do uh we raised our series a in July we didn't need it but VCS came a knocking and I guess you don't say no when that happens but we are the fastest growing AI business in the UK we are working with Enterprise level customers across the US Australia and Europe we've just opened a US office with a US CEO and an Australian office with an Australian CEO so it's going gang busters really and like that when you got that call right so to to get those kind of clients must be I would expect but it's really difficult right because you've got to convince somebody like KPMG these huge organizations to use the software byy a startup somebody that right at the beginning how do you go about that what were the first steps you took once you got that call to start everything up and to get to where you are today so bid writing is really interesting so Sean who's the founder of the business he comes from a bidw writing background one of his previous his careers he was a bid writer and then he won these bids and then he was like the MD and you know he's delivering these contracts and everybody knows everybody in public procurement you know it seems like a big world to us but it's actually very small so they all know each other they all trust each other they've all got little black books with everybody's details in them so I think it's who you know so all a lot of our early Australian clients came through Word of Mouth actually where I was literally sat with Sean and his phone rang and someone said I've heard you're selling this tool to and search we want a demo and I was like Sean like what and he was like yeah it's just Word of Mouth like cuz they all talk they all want to know what their competitors are up to I think with selling an Enterprise level AI tool to somebody like KPMG security is Paramount so one thing is that our tool is secure privacy and security is one of our biggest priorities and the second thing is we have built a tool that intimately understands and relates to the problem that they have we're not a generic marketing tool that you can also spin into to bid writing bid writing is heavily technical it's very scientific it has you know everything that you say has to be evidenced and we have built a tool that specifically allows you to do all of those things so we beli that by solving for the most complicated writing problem you capture all the business cases underneath it so like marketing HR law you can't go the other way around and we've seen this play out with some of our clients who were working with some big providers on bespoke uh AI products and they you know they just come back to us and say actually yours is better I mean some of the first people that we hired in the business were bid writers and they were sat in a room telling us what product development should look like we weren't just you know sort of developing this product in a silo developing the product we wanted we were developing the product that bid writers wanted and that's why it's been easy for us to sell we've never demon demoed the product to anyone who didn't understand the value of it straight away so I don't know if you know this we've got a job board on the website so I see all the gen jobs that com really yeah so it's in every newslet we send it's got cuz like you said it's one of the ones which we've seen where you've always got jobs available and it's part of the reason of you growing as fast as you are so it's funny for me because I I see that every week of like oh they've oun another job oh they're hiring for this now and of that appr like which is the bit that you enjoy the most because like you said you've had these different roles of different organizations now in this like massively growing company which part of are you loving the most oh that's such a good question I look I go where the fires go that's naturally who I am I think Chief Operating officers we are the people in the organization wielding the fire extinguisher right and we sit across the business so the thing that I love the most is finding problem and then solving it and that's really where my sweet spot is and I often joke with Sean that ultimately for me this is my corner shop and we're selling potatoes and I need to make sure we're doing that well we're doing it properly that we're doing the accounts properly that you know all our St sellers are happy and all of that and so to me that's the best part of it no two days are the same you know it's just a continually evolving Beast my husband often laughs that you know he he sort of sat with me one day I was working from the kitchen and he just heard all the calls that I was doing he's like today you have solved a payroll fire you have figured out how to deliver training uh for a unique Enterprise level client and come up with a completely new training plan and you have you know devised a different marketing strategy for a you know a different subset of potential prospects like that's literally what every day is like it's completely different every single day and I love that I I'm not the type of person that would have been very good doing one role in one Department in one part of a big business I need to be helicopter across and I Des you know describe myself a bit like a bit like a emergency room doctor paramedic is that I have to go full circle yeah that's right and that I have to go where the problems are and fix them with a view to an immediate solution but also one eye on the long-term future and you mentioned before some of the business you work for before they weren't necessarily the next stripe or something like that but from what you how it's going so far potenti this is the business that's going to be that next strip or be that next Google whatever it is how what are the problems you're facing at this company that you didn't face the other ones because of that sheer scale and how fast you're growing so we don't want to be the next STP we want to be Excel for words and that's how we see it nobody in this world does numbers without Excel nobody in this world will do autogen AI for competitive sorry nobody in this world will do words for competitive business Pros without autogen AI That's how we see it the challenges that we face today are you know the usual ones that you face when you have grown a business from like 30 people to 80 in 6 months culture you know retaining culture and and delivering a good culture is a big challenge you have to be very deliberate about culture because culture builds itself in the absence of you know deliberate effort hiring and retaining good strong Talent is is difficult and I think one thing that I think is not a challenge for us but something that I keep my eye on is making sure people don't get too excited about fundraising I have very cynical views about fundraising I think it's cool it's nice but it's akin to getting a loan it's not success in and of itself right VCS allow you to execute against a much bigger Vision that you might have had you wanted to turn a dilapidated house on the street into a boutique hotel and a VC comes along and says no buy the whole street turn it into a 300 bedroom thing but the fact that they've given you money to turn it into a 300 bedroom thing doesn't mean that you haven't got to go out and build the 300 bedrooms there's still a business to be delivered there are still targets that you have to hit there is still a whole journey to go on and so for me I think one of the challenges is making sure that whilst the excitement about us in the Press sort of is fine and accepting that making sure that the people in the business understand we still have a business to deliver and having $40 million in your bank account from a VC is very different to having $40 million in revenue revenue and VC funding are not the same thing and you know you're given that money to build something not just to make Founders rich or go and have a big party and get loads of Po you know pool tables and I think that is it's very important to make sure that people don't get lost in the tech bro jargon so that's one of the challenges now but it's all fun in games it's all part of the journey so before we go into quick five questions you said there about the excitement isn't about the fundraising right and completely agrees it should be a means to an end right absolutely you're using it for a reason but what does excite you what is the thing that's exciting you now about the future look I've always been really excited about the idea of how do you get people to to do what you want and I don't mean on a onetoone level I'm not interested in like onetoone manipulation or negotiation but I mean in a mass adoption sense right and so that's what I'm really excited by next is how do we get the world to open its eyes to what autogen can do for its business and then take them on that Journey I'm really fascinated by you know the attention economy I'm really fascinated by how you persuade people to do things you know ads marketing all of that and I think that's the one common thread through sort of all of my work is how do you influence people to do what you want and that's what's really exciting me right now we've got this amazing opportunity ahead of us brilliant amount of resources to really run at it and I just want to make sure that we convince as many people as possible to do the right thing which is to buy autogen so quick five questions now really enjoyed this so far who are free British Asians they love the spotlight they think are doing incredible work I love dmle Patel I love uh nav is it Sony son son yeah son um I love if I said that wrong as well then he'll be listen to this um and the third one satam sangera so can you explain for the audience who don't know who they are yeah what they do so dimple is a Serial entrepreneur she's probably one of the most entrepreneurial people I've ever met she grew up on a council estate worked in Investment Banking then purchased a distressed coffee chain business and through sheer Genius marketing turned it around into a a chain of like Boutique coffee shops and sold it on and then I think she was the CEO of tra and now she's moved on El but she's just brilliant and she just really understands that idea of how can I give people what they want like figuring out what do people want figuring out how to give them that but then also influencing what people want and those three things I find absolutely fascinating and she's exceptional at them so nav runs the washing machine project which is um he used to work for engineers Without Borders and the washing machine project is a way of figuring out how to provide like scalable sustainable sanitation facilities for people around the world so he basically has built and this is such a reductive and horrible explanation but it's it's it's a reflection of my poor understanding of the tech not of you know the tech itself it's like a barrel hand fun washing machine and it uses very little water but he really believes in the idea of like people deserve to have dignity and a large part of having dignity is being able to live cleanly and I really I just really respect that and he's been all around the world and taken you know uh prototypes and also working versions of his technology to like refugee camps around the world it's life-changing stuff and then satam sangera is a times bestselling author he wrote the bestselling book called Empire land he's just come out with Empire World he's a columnist for the times as well he wrote the boy with the top knot and I just love him because I think he's done such groundbreaking work on helping South Asians understand Empire but also helping British people understand why Britain is diverse and really driving home that point that we're here here because you were there and really helping people understand that Britain is only diverse because of all the colonies that it was in and you brought us here to do work and do other kinds of Labor and I I just feel like he's fundamentally changed the conversation on Empire and imperialism and I just think he's brilliant had the first J here and they're lovely so I don't know satam but I'm sure it's lovely too so people listening right now want to learn more about you learn more about Auto gen where should they go to if you want to learn more about Auto ni you can follow us uh on Auto on LinkedIn or visit the website Auto gen.com if you want to learn more about the pink Leo project you can visit pink Lao on Instagram so that's p i n k l a d o um if you want to learn about the books you can visit South Asians supergirl.tv so thank you so much for coming on today thanks have you got any final words for the audience no that's fine you don't need to okay hello hello everyone thank you so much for listening it Maks a huge amount to us and we don't think you realize how important you are because if you subscribe to our YouTube channel if you leave us a five star review it makes the world of difference and if you believe in what we're trying to do here to inspire connect and guide the Next Generation appreciations if you do those things you can help us achieve that mission and you can help us make a bigger impact and by doing that it means we can get bigger guests we can host more 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