Nathan Gregory, welcome to Acquiring Minds. Thank you for having me. Nathan, you bought a B2B media business, a media brand targeting body shop owners. Media businesses are something that I feel pretty close to, to state the obvious. So, I have been looking forward to our conversation. Please start us off, Nathan, with some background on you. Sure. Um how far back do you want me to go? I could go starting at, you know, sort of coming out of college, coming out of that age up to this path. It does It does line It does wind its way towards there pretty interestingly, or I could start a little more recent if you prefer. Well, what Tell Where do you my late 30s for reference. So, there's there's a there's a the the uh the amount of time that that goes. Okay, well, let's not go back to the '80s. Where is the first uh twist in your story, your personal story, where entrepreneurship it becomes clear entrepreneurship might be in your future. Yeah. So, I think I started entrepreneurship in a way that no one would think of entrepreneurship. In my In my late teens, I played in a touring band. I was a guitar player. Mhm. And I toured the country for multiple years. And I I really thought about this before we we did this interview. And I I felt like what motivated me then was the same as what motivates me now. And at the time, I just hadn't didn't have great context or frame of reference. So, I thought it was you know, performing and being a rock star. And really at the time, I think I was chasing two things. And still to this day, I chase those. It was independence and freedom. And it was also, to be honest, it was wealth. And it was to build um a a long-term um big, you know, a a wealthy, rich life. And so, um at the time, I thought that was that path would be achieved through through touring and performing. Um but I ended up in Los Angeles, and I'm from I'm from the New York area. I ended up in Los Angeles. I started working in the the talent management industry in 2007. And I worked with artists like Kiss and Guns N' Roses and Darius Rucker cuz we managed Hootie & the Blowfish and launched him in the country. And so, it was a small company run by a very successful uh person in the in the music industry. And so, I learned a lot from him about how to um be both scrappy, but also deal with very high-profile situations and people because you're, you know, management companies are inherently really small businesses. Mhm. Often times, really high-revenue businesses, but very small in terms of people. And so, um that was really my first exposure to entrepreneurship on my both on my own, um and then also working with um working with and working for entrepreneurs. Um This is Nathan, let me hop in. This is fascinating history. So, um I knew you'd been in entertainment, but I'm not sure I knew that So, so when you were working kind of for as a client, Guns N' Roses, let's say, or a Darius Rucker or Kiss, what years were those did you say? Was that Did you say 2007 or did you say '8, '9, '10, that kind of range. Yeah. Okay. Okay, great. Um And did you have direct exposure to those people? Oh, absolutely. I would be on the road with them. I would email with them. I would call with them. I would, you know, we we were their their managers. When you hear of the concept of an artist and their manager, that was us. Okay. And um so, we so, we helped And And, you know, in working with an artist like Kiss, for example, taught me a ton about branding, about licensing. That was when I first got my exposure to working with um you know, corporate America and and partnering with brands and and bringing a brand to partner with an artist. And And um so, it was really It was really trial by fire. There was no playbook for these things. There was no college program that I came out of. I studied music recording technology, which really couldn't apply less to anything that I do today other than recording this uh podcast with you, Will. But um uh other than that, um you know, that that's how it got started. Cool. And And just curious for somebody who's in with around celebrities, uh are they just normal people? Are they primadonnas? Does it depend? Can you Is there any interesting takeaway or generalization you can make about the royalty of our modern society? Um well, you know, the the the later part of my entertainment career, I worked with a lot more contemporary celebrities, and they were a bit different. You know, one thing I noticed with working with, we'll call them heritage artists, artists who've been successful for decades, is um in order to do that, you have to be incredibly professional. So, there's a lot of um stories about the experience and the craziness, and that that might have occurred decades and decades ago, but my experience was generally that they were incredibly professional, incredibly um focused on on their brand, their their their career, what it meant to be uh an artist to the fans that that looked up to them. And um but there was also their the fair share of craziness, that's for sure. Mhm. Cool. Yeah. Really really interesting. Well, I'm sure there are many more stories uh to tell, but maybe not for a a podcast about acquiring minds. I, you know, I can definitely connect it back to how we end up with, you know, years later acquiring a a B2B media business. And really, it was these different experiences along the way that that led us in this direction. Great. Yeah. Well, and but just one other point on this backstory of yours, the being in a band to pursue the same goals that you find yourself now as an entrepreneur being your kind of north stars, independence and freedom, and then wealth. Um that's interesting. You know, often the the person in the in a band is not pursuing kind of entrepreneurial goals, but a young person in a band. But um status uh being desirable to the to the gender that they're interested in. Um Yeah, whatever. Being cool. Being cool. that's why for for me, it was it wasn't all those things. You know, it was fun. But um that wasn't the driver. And so, once it ended, I said, "Okay, time to turn the turn the page, new chapter." Either pick us up there or fast-forward, as the case may be, as it relates to the topic of today's discussion, your entrepreneurial journey. Well, it it's happened It's happened twice in my in my life I've gotten really disillusioned with the music industry and the craziness of it. So, at that early stage, I, you know, I I was approached by a a tech startup to come join them. And that was um about 2011. And so, I went to that company and never really having worked in tech at all before. Um but it really, you know, in in working in that company, which was small, it really taught me about professionalizing, you know, sales, sales operation, a pipeline, marketing, um building and willing a company into existence. And it was really hard work. There was a lot of things we did wrong. There were some things we did right. But it was um it was an incredible learning experience for me. And um you know, s- some of the And And that was a brief time. That was only about a year, Will. But in even in that period of time, there's some relationships that have come from that that persisted to this day. So, after that, I said, "Look, I don't know anybody in this world." And I felt like I was I was out alone on an island in in terms of a network. And all of my network was back in the music industry. So, I did rejoin the music industry in 2013. And And mind you, Will, in the back of my mind, I always felt like I needed to do my own thing. I just didn't know what it was or how to get there. Um acquiring a business is is really uh a concept that that would just be very foreign to to almost anybody. It's a very unusual concept for for for most people. And so, it's really just you start a business or you work somewhere. And I never really felt like starting a business or never had the right kind of ideas. Um and so, I joined one of the major Hollywood talent agencies, Creative Artists Agency, back in 2013. And so, I ended up working there for 10 years. And what I focused on there was um was was doing brand partnership deals for uh for celebrity music talent. So, agents, like managers, also represent the artists. And um you know, as a talent agency, you specialize in the touring of artists. And what I did in my department, we handled the brand partnerships. So, you know, these are this is for artists like, you know, I I did deals for artists like Dua Lipa, Green Day, or Kelsea Ballerini, or Avril Lavigne, Ice Cube, Keith Urban, Meghan Trainor, you know, on and on, Ludacris, you know, last year in the Super Bowl, I had a client, you know, in a commercial. And so, those were the kinds of things that that I was doing while discovering the world of entrepreneurship and business acquisition, that I was working on building up my my skill set, and and ultimately the plan to to acquire something on the side. Great, Nathan. So, you're you're back in the entertainment business now on as an on the agency side as opposed to the management side. I don't know if if my vocabulary is correct there. How does that then lead to be finally becoming the entrepreneur you are today? So, all while the time I was at CAA, I I really got to a point after a few years that um I was looking for that entrepreneurial path. And I thought I thought initially that might be through real estate. So, in 2017, I started acquiring and flipping raw land parcels. It taught me how to directly reach out to people. It taught me how to then take something, package it, sell it online. You know, it was profitable. I took the money and just stopped doing that after about a year. And um and I started acquiring commercial multifamily real estate here in Southern California. And that's when I I partnered up with someone who's who's my partner to this day to do this. We acquired, you know, one property, did a huge value add, sold it, acquired another bigger property, and this is now brings us to um you know, probably 20 2019 or 2018, I think without or 2019. Um but in the time that we were that we were doing the real estate, I also started an e-commerce business in the end of 2018. And this is really is what laid the groundwork for for helping me understand how to how to run a business, um which again led to ultimately the acquisition. So, this is a this is such an interesting evolution. Um okay, and so so tell can you tell us a little bit about your dalliance into e-commerce then, the one you just mentioned? Uh the world of Amazon FBA was exploding. Everyone, it seemed like, was launching brands uh that were quickly growing, um selling products on Amazon. For for those who don't know, FBA means fulfilled by Amazon. So, when you buy something, Amazon Prime delivers it to you. Usually, it's a it's a merchant who's selling the product on the platform and and ultimately paying Amazon to store and pick, pack, and ship the product to you. Mhm. And so, it's it's a very great it's a great platform to launch a physical product into the world without needing a whole lot of infrastructure. And um it's it's incredibly competitive and incredibly difficult. Um and and it's probably gotten a lot uh harder over the years. But at the time, it was it was difficult and when hard and was hard, but I felt like this was a great path. And so, I developed of all things a beer koozie brand where um you know, you you you have think about a t-shirt, Will, that says a phrase that you resonate with. We basically took that approach to koozies. Mhm. Um and um we would we would sell koozies for 40th birthday parties and 50th birthday parties and retirements you know, bachelorette parties and things like that. And um it was a real evolution. It started with sourcing product in the US, figuring that out, having people come to my house and put it in packages, and send it in boxes to Amazon to then ultimately evolve to finding a factory in China, shipping product uh overseas to to a port here in the US, and then having it trucked to a warehouse, stored, sent to Amazon, fulfilled through Amazon and other and Walmart and Etsy and things like that. And so, it grew it grew to be a seven-figure business, and I ultimately sold it in 2021 to um to one of the Amazon FBA aggregators. That's awesome. Good for you. And was it a uh I can can you give us some sort of inkling of what this this exit look like for you? It was you know, mid mid six figures-ish, um and but you know, certainly a a nice uh a nice accomplishment um after, you know, it it the the other thing it really taught me is that having a business where you sell inventory and it's a growing business is really not the kind of business you want to own if you'd like cash flow. And um I never I never was able to take any money out of the business until I sold it. So, I never never actually made any money from it until it was sold. So, it was a really uh incredible you know, for for someone who's not like a lot of searchers coming out of an MBA program, mine, you know, if if anyone's watching on video, there's a wall of books behind me. A combination of that experience and um great uh people that I've been able to learn from over the years is really been that uh that that in the thousands of hours of podcasts like like yours, Will, that have really helped um you know, educate someone like me into a world that that um you know, is is quite new for for someone with my background. Yeah. Well, great call out, Nathan, because um I'm always a little wary of of how many MBAs I have on the pod and MBAs from some of the the most prestigious schools, cuz I don't want people to think that it's just for that ilk. Uh it's definitely not. They may have an advantage. They may have had a lot of finance classes that the rest of us have not. Um but there are So, anyway, I'm really glad uh that uh you you and you can be an autodidact as you have been, Nathan, and and demonstrate success. Yeah. Um thank you for highlighting that. So, you sell you sell the koozie business. Mhm. Where were we? Sell the koozie business. So, Yeah. we were you know, this this overlaps with our search. So, really we started the idea and when I say we, so I have a partner, Paul, um who I mentioned a little earlier with with the real estate. And you know, around 2019, um I I again you know, if you're an MBA student or or or alumni listening to this, you're going to roll your eyes cuz it seems overly simplistic. But for me, it was a new insight. Um when you own commercial commercial real estate, it's really a magical way to uh to increase net worth. And um I realized, oh, that's what private equity people do with businesses. Mhm. And I see and now I'm hearing about people doing that with small businesses and doing leveraged buyouts. Um what an amazing model. This is what we have to do because real estate is great, but it's not making us enough cash flow to to be super meaningful. Um so, we need to acquire a business. And at that time, you know, I was searching I was searching for information. I read all the same books that we always talk about that everyone knows. Um this is when the the gurus come in. I did take one of the the the the lesser helpful courses where it was the the no money down type um business acquisition. And you know, in hindsight, knowing what I know now and even what I kind of knew at the time, you know, the the way these these courses are positioned, you know, it it certainly is appealing to just about anyone. Who wouldn't want something for no money or something of value? Then I found a group that was used to be called Kingmakers and changed their name to Acquira, which you might be familiar with. Some listeners might be familiar with. Fantastic group. It's really a mentorship. They they do have a course, but it's really more or less um you know, nuts and bolts kind of education of how to acquire business. And I found that the the peer aspect of the group, the um the the the the education, but but the education was was really just a small part of it. It was really just the peer aspect of the group um was was a really helpful thing, you know, getting on weekly calls with everyone, talking about your progress. Um so, we started that I think in in in really in about 2021, but really it was 2019 2020 we started thinking about it and started getting familiar with what we wanted to do and what we wanted to acquire. As you it's I'm sorry that it sounds like I'm going on so many tangents, Will, but we did acquire another small business in 2020. The timeline of all this stuff overlaps. But um we acquired uh a digital media publisher business in 2020, which um was a really fortuitous because it gave us a lot of understanding that we're using today in a much bigger uh more established media business. And so, really as we went into 2021, Nathan, can I stop you? Did you Is Please. Uh I know that experience wasn't your favorite, but is there anything that you want to share about that uh little acquisition? Other than that you learned a lot of kind of online marketing SEO about from it? Going you know, our our our acquisition search phases really corresponded with our cash-out refinances of a of a large uh apartment building. Um and we did that at the end of 2019. And so, we had money to look for an acquisition in 2020. COVID happened. You know, I was dealing with the the uh the e-commerce business. Of course, we had my partner also comes comes out of the music industry. So, we had things going on in the music industry. And we we got cold feet about acquiring a business with an SBA loan in 2020. We you know, just no one knew what the state of the economy was going to be. Yeah. And so, we said we still want to acquire something. So, let's acquire an online business for all cash. And we um we did an off-market search and we ended up acquiring um you know, like I mentioned, a small digital media publisher in the pet space. We still own it. It's actually you know, about three times the size that it was when we acquired it um through through some growth initiatives, but we're going through a whole um you know, sort of rebranding of it right now to turn it into a proper media business. Um we think it still has a lot of a lot of growth potential. So, it's still part of our portfolio and something we really want to uh to grow over time. Um but it really kind of that that that consumed our investment capital. So, then we did another refinance in 2021, and that's when we pulled out money to to make the acquisition that we ultimately made in uh in August of 2024. In 2022, we we had bought hook, line, and sinker into the concept that we need to acquire a home services And we also thought um you know, we we thought we were so smart because we you know, we we owned real estate. So, sure, we've worked with lots of plumbers and roofers and HVAC people and everything that um surely surely we could operate one of those you know, Will, we really beat our head against the wall for for a long period of time in a choir. That's really their specialty. They have you know, they have a roll up fund as part of what they're doing in there. You know, they they have a a large HVAC portfolio with different acquisition entrepreneurs they work with and other um acquirers. And so it's a real specialty of theirs. And at the end of maybe the second half of 2022, we even you know, we're part of of looking at acquiring something where they would invest equity in it alongside us. And so we were looking in a in sort of a larger range where we were searching in the 1 and 1/2 million EBITDA plus. So most of the businesses were 5 or 6 million and we you know, we had a pretty winding road. We made multiple offers throughout 2022. We we um you know, we they didn't work out for various reasons. Um and it was it was a wide variety of things. And um everything from you know, kind of environmental consulting to a portfolio of automotive repair shops where I met um a guy who I think was a guest of yours at one point, Brian Beers. And and he helped me he helped me think through that. Um and so there was a a very winding path into we got to the end of 2022 and I said, you know what? We need to stop. This isn't working. We need to revisit and and figure out what's right for us. And that's where I really did a lot of deep thinking um through that that December to think about what what are our skills? What do we really bring to the table? And so we thought we thought, okay, what can we do in media? What can we do where there's a durable essential business that that has some form of media or or information. Just something that has that. So we we went through this process in the end of 2022 coming out of 2022 into 23. Um that's when we said this is our new we're going to no more home services. That's not for us. And that required a little bit of a pivot. Well, you know, we had a little website with you know, like like a lot of searchers do. And so there was a little confusion with some sellers we were talking to and they're they're running a you know, a wedding media business and and they said, well, why does your website say you want to acquire a plumbing company or something and and why are you talking to me? And so you know, we were we were sort of um it was a it was a bit bumpy. But um And anyway, so when you say when you say when you say B2B trade media, just explain what that is cuz it's kind of a it's kind of a legacy style media. What is it? A lot of industries um like I'll give you an example coming out of the entertainment industry, you know, there's a there's something called the Hollywood Reporter. Yep. And it comes um I think it used to come daily to people's offices in the in the in the movie and television industry. And um also in the music industry, we have something called Billboard. People might be familiar with the Billboard Awards Sure. and things like that. So Billboard is a magazine, it's a website. And so people in an industry, they get um news that's about their industry. It could be executives moving to different companies. It could be regulations. It's um companies that are being acquired. It's new evolutions, changes in the business. Um people like to know about the business that they're in. And so um there's there's hundreds of different types of trade media. Sometimes they involve data. Sometimes they involve events. Um you know, historically people would call them trade rags or things like that where it's a just a print publication that comes monthly, weekly, daily, quarterly, whatever is is every everything is a bit different. And so the the reason why that was of interest to us because again, you know, we we wanted to do a leveraged acquisition. We wanted to use that as part of the acquisition. So we were hyper sensitive to you know, to something that would be really durable and stable. And the entertainment side of the media industry is not is not durable or stable. It's very volatile. It has very high highs, has has low lows. And we would not be comfortable putting debt on a business like that. Also, it's very consolidated. And so um I think we bit somewhat violated that rule with our acquisition because there's not um it's not a fragmented industry of of media businesses in the collision repair space. But um but but regardless, it's very fragmented in terms of um hundreds and hundreds of of business to business media businesses out there. Well, we're going to I want to kind of hear your thoughts too on B2B media trade publications generally. Uh and you know, where they stand in the world and and where they're going. Um we'll get there when we talk about how you guys envision growing the business. But that would that was a great education cuz they are they they they did they have been such a feature of industries. Uh the the trade pub for that industry which often then usually is the is also the the event the annual or the semi-annual event for that industry is often run by the trade pub for that industry. Um so and big businesses historically have been have been built based um on this business model and they're often acquisition heavy businesses that have just kind of bought up these small trade pubs into these you know, into a hold co an umbrella company. Anyway. So uh yeah. Let let let's carry on with the story. It's it's super interesting to me. So what did you find? What what what is the business that you found that is a trade pub? So in in I want to say April of 2023, we came across a business called Autobody News which is a 42-year-old um business for the automotive collision repair industry that was run by um uh two partners in the in the San Diego, California area. They had they had acquired the business 16 years prior. Um and they were they were looking to retire. It was very similar to um you know, I'm going to take a slight tangent. Well, you know, when you're when you're looking to acquire and a year goes by and two years goes by and you're beating your head against the wall and you think that do these things really exist? The motivated seller, the the healthy business, but the seller is looking to move on and you know, you know when you know. And that that was what happened with us with this business and and we kept we kept seeing lots of things get checked off the list. You know, you had a very healthy durable business. It had been incredibly stable through all the years of financials that we looked at. Um and not only not only that, but it was a brand that um that has existed in the industry for for four decades. And so we felt like the uh that kind of like the transition to us was was not about preserving the seller's legacy, but was about preserving the brand's legacy. And we felt a bit of a stewardship in that and do feel a bit of stewardship in that in that um that that that ownership of it. And so um anyways, came across the business. Seller's looking to retire. It was a broker deal. We came across it I want to say on BizBuySell. Um and and you know, kind of followed the typical process. We had we had a conversation. Um the broker liked us um which led to conversations with the seller which led to a meeting which led to an offer which which then became an LOI and ultimately a deal. And you know, the the really um frustrating thing I think for a lot of searchers was nothing went sideways in our process of acquiring it and it still took from April to August to get uh to get the deal closed. And so um things just take time unfortunately. So the business had transacted before. The the the existing your sellers had themselves bought it. So that kind of does reinforce this point that you feel some kind of a responsibility a stewardship of the brand. Um but it's also often a happy sign that the business a business can survive a transition cuz it's done so before. Um anything more to say about that point? Well, not only were were the owners we acquired it from, not only did they also acquire the business, but we are actually the fifth owners of the business. It was started originally by the owner of a body shop in Southern California who started a physical newsletter that was distributed locally which then became regional magazine and that grew over time. And the owners we brought it bought it from grew it to a national print publication um but but multiple regions. So there's five print publications we we uh publish every month. Um and then they also launched the digital aspect of the business and um so it it continued to evolve over the years. And so when you you know, when you look at a business and you're concerned about the transferability, seeing that this business had transferred several times before and it always grown along the path, we felt very comfortable about that. Um and one of the team members had you know, he had come and gone through the years, but ultimately he's been with the business for 25 years. And so he he can share, oh, this is what we were doing way back in this period and this is what we were doing in this period. And so it's um it's a it's a real uh treasure chest of of experiences to still dig up. That's cool. Wow. That's really neat. Yeah, there there's some I think there's also something to about a legacy business. We we love old businesses. Uh the older the better for not only just um mercenary reasons that that means that they you know, that they've weathered storms and that they're probably more robust businesses and have staying power. But the the the romance too to them. And but I think there's something even more special to a media brand being old because it's you know, it's it's been um it has itself kind of tracked its own industry. There's just more kind of baked into the DNA of a media business, I think, uh than a business business. I don't know, I'm having a hard time articulating it, but I think that there's that are that are familiar with how online content works and and Google search engine optimization and things like that, having what's considered a high-authority domain is really important. And uh as you know, digital Now, the these two things can be true. Print is is important in certain industries um and we find it to be desirable by the audience and desirable by advertisers. But at the same time digital and the growth of digital is is most certainly the future of of a business like this. And so um the the the fact that there's this very long legacy brand and a name like Auto Body News, there's nothing that's more descriptive than that. Um that that it really um carried a lot of weight online. And so we felt like that would also be a great platform for growth as we as we continue to invest in that area um because you have that that domain authority, that brand authority that comes with such an established brand uh in the in the space. And you know, absolutely. Something like Google will recognize that. That that domain name must have been registered 1994. I mean, I don't know how savvy how savvy the owner whatever the owner was in 19 in the '90s, but uh I wouldn't be surprised if that that domain name dates back to the '90s, which is gold uh in SEO right now. Pretty cool. And and can you give us a sense of the size of the business? Yeah, so the business is is um you know, when we when we were evaluating it, we were looking at how it would look when we owned it and really wanted to think about it that way in our evaluation of the uh the SDE was in the in the mid to to upper six figures, several million in revenue, um extremely diversified revenue across uh hundreds of advertisers and a team of well 10 people if you count of the seller, nine people when she when we took over, but we hired someone to replace uh certain things that she did. So uh 10 10 employees plus the two of us. Mhm. Great. Well, Nathan, that's um aside from just my own selfish and personal interest in media, just looking strictly at just kind of the bullet points of the business, that's a very desirable business for a self-funded searcher. It's, you know, you said mid up upper six figures of SDE, so it's kind of right the sweet spot of a self-funded search. Seller several million of revenue. Tra has transacted, you guys will have been the the fifth time, so it's survived four transactions, it's survived three before you bought it, three three transitions. 40 years old uh enduringly profitable, really consistent. I mean, I mean, there there is so much to like about about this business. Now Yeah. We'll we'll we'll get into You just mentioned print and digital. We'll get into whether or not a business like this what its longevity is cuz it's going to need to evolve, we assume, if it's still kind of relying on print. We'll get into that. But just kind of those bullet points make this seem I mean, I would I mean, seems awesome. We have a amazing relationship with the with the former owner and she she did an incredible job with her partner um growing it in the way that they did, taking it from a regional business to a national business. I can't imagine how hard that must have been. And I think that um what they saw in us is you know, that next generation of enthusiasm and energy and ideas to then take the business to the next level. Um and I think that was a big driver in them going with us as the ultimate purchasers of it because of our, you know, we had the we had enough experience, you know, again, it seems very separate, but in the entertainment world, all I dealt with was was marketers at brands. And it might have been consumer brands that were that were, you know, spending money on celebrity and, you know, sort of celebrity influencer type type marketing dollars, but at the same time, you're just dealing with brands who are trying to achieve a marketing objective, and that's the exact same thing that a business like this is doing with the advertisers of the business. So I So So the sellers knew that we understood how, you know, how to appreciate the advertisers, how to interact if if we needed to with them um and and that has proven to be completely seamless. Um and then also given our our background with the digital media business acquisition, they they felt like we also, you know, had the right um you know, even though that there's nothing significant about that it it most certainly gave us a level of education and understanding that we we apply to this business. Um and has helped tremendously. Um to There's a lot of cross learnings between the two. And so I think all those things really led to them feeling really comfortable with us and also the the respect for the team, the respect for the industry um and and how we will approach, you know, continuing to to continuing the legacy of the brand and then the growth of of where it goes from here. Great. Well, we're just about to get into that. But is there anything to say on the terms of the deal and the transition, the immediate transition after you transacted? Um you know, it was fairly straightforward. Um you know, like a lot of these deals, a combination of of SBA debt, um you know, some some seller debt and then equity. Um so there's nothing nothing out of the ordinary creative um that came from that. Um And then in terms of the uh the transition um we had the seller stay with us for a month full-time and then part-time for another 5 months. So So really she's just now kind of um you know, being able to to fully move into her retirement. Mhm. Great. And And when did you close? August 1st. A media business, even a print media business, seems like one that could be run remotely. Cuz you're at least communicating with your staff um over I mean, you're just able to communicate with your staff or not you don't have to be in the room with them. Um but this did actually happen to be local to you. So what what's the relationship of of physical place and geography to this business? So during um during COVID most of the staff started working remotely. Um we have a team member, you know, the business is in California, we have a team member in New Jersey, so he's always worked remotely. And they got really used to that, which also gave uh Paul and I a lot of comfort that everyone's used to working remotely. And the business is about on a good day about a 2-hour drive. If anyone has ever Anyone lives in Southern California or has driven in Southern California, you know that the uh traffic can fluctuate quite significantly. And so um we uh we we felt like it was close enough, we're there every week for a couple days. Um and it's it's about a block away from the ocean, so it's a wonderful location. And um most of the team still works, you know, partially remote, partially in the office. We've you know, we've already done some things to further enhance that move move things into the cloud that were locally hosted, things like that um to make the the work-from-home experience even better um for for the staff and for us, you know, spending most of our time not at the office. Well, you say moving things into the cloud, so as I recall from the pre-call, there's actually a physical server in the office. So there is even though it's using No longer. Well, no longer. We've We've gotten rid of the physical server, so everything is everything is in the cloud now, yeah. So there was there was things like that that we, you know, hadn't really experienced before, but um it was it was in the in hindsight not really that difficult of a transition. It's just you know, just something new um for people, but um um yeah, so there there's there's a bit of those kind of technological things from the operational side that were, you know, continuing to upgrade. Um but you know, that said, there there's you know, there's certainly a an approach to, you know, not changing things when you come into a business and and we were very cognizant of that cognizant of that, but but really saw that through two lenses. There's changing things outwardly and changing things inwardly. And the the part that we really wanted to be most focused on was not changing things outwardly. We wanted the audience um to be you know, unaware that a transaction had even really occurred and and um you know, Paul and I having worked in the entertainment industry, worked worked famous people, we we have no interest in in being famous and and being well-known in the And uh so there was talk about, "Oh, do you guys want to put a big thing on the front page of the magazine that you're in?" I said, "No. No, we don't we want this about the audience. We want this to be about them. They don't care about us. They don't they don't care who owns Auto Body News." And and uh we carry that audience-first approach to this business. Um that's how you run any entertainment business. You have to you have to be focused on the audience and and um that's how we approach this. And um so we didn't want to be changing things outwardly. And we also didn't want to be changing too much too fast inwardly, but there were things that we felt had to be improved and updated um and couldn't help ourselves and had to had to do those things. So we've we've made a number of those changes in the first 6 months, but the only outward outward things that have that have occurred have really just been improvements around the the web presence. So, yeah. Great, Nathan. Well, before we get into your thoughts and vision around a trade publication, being the owner and operator of a trade publication. Now, let me just understand how you guys were thinking about the economics of this. So, you're partnering so that you've partnered you've referred to Paul now a few times means that you're going to be, you know, splitting the economics here. Um and so so while this sounds like a solid business to call it over $500,000 of SDE, um divided by two, that's a lot, you know, that that's not as big a number. And uh and you also have source, you know, you've you've built a real estate portfolio that you've been able to tap to make this acquisition. So, you have other holdings and maybe sources of income. So, give us a picture of what your um your kind of econo- how you're running things economically. Are you guys paying yourselves out of the business? Is this something where you I what and kind of what's your plan? Yeah, give give us a picture of all that, please. Sure. So, I mean, we we through luck and good planning, I guess, have have built up other streams of income um mainly through real estate, also through the other the other business that we acquired. Um and so, it gave us a good foundation to not um have to have any particular salary target that we're looking for. We're we're looking at this business as a long-term hold. Mhm. Um we we are committed to this industry. We think uh you know, we think there's a lot of improvement that can be done in terms of the information that's needed in this industry. So, we're in it for the long term. Um we own it through a holding company. Um so, you know, the mechanics of that you know, make it a little bit different, but um but ultimately, we you know, we do distribute money out of the business into the holding company where where Paul and I are paid out of. Um but we're we're the owners and operators of the business, so we we do run it um and our our our planning to do that for a while. Um and I don't know if that directly answers your question, but but ultimately, it wasn't it wasn't a binary switch where we have a job, now we're leaving the job. Now, I did have a job and I have left the job, but um and so that income obviously has shut off, and that was a a a good healthy income. Um it was definitely a golden handcuff situation, but um you know, we've always been pretty you know, modest about spending, so all that, you know, sort of extra income was just going into investments and acquisitions. And so, it's really you know, it just sort of shifts things a bit. Mhm. Um so, it wasn't it wasn't a dramatic lifestyle change other than um you know, the actual work. That was that was a dramatic lifestyle change, but um other than that, that's sort of how we're how we've approached the finances and and and how we pay ourselves. Okay, great. Now, let's get into the kind of frame of mind of buying a media business. I feel like to do a media business well, you have to have more of an interest in the topic than if you buy directly a business in a particular industry. So, in your case, I feel like if you let's say you found an actual body shop to own buy and own, I feel like you could you don't need quite the same passion for the subject matter of of running a body shop to do that versus to to actually now own a media business covering body shop ownership because you know, part of being a media business is is just is is curiosity, is enthusiasm. You know, I I think I I I I do Acquiring Minds half decently because I love the subject matter, and I think to do a media business well, you got to you got to got to have that that kind of X factor. And um So, anyway, react to that. What do you what do you think about that? Yeah, there's there's a lot that I think about that. So, I think in a many ways, we're better suited um for this industry than some of the other uh publishers in this space. And I'll say that because we're entrepreneurial owners. And because of that, we are I mean, for myself, I'm relentlessly curious. And I think it's just also been ground into us, as I mentioned a minute ago, to be audience focused. And so, um I am naturally replace the word audience with customer. Like, I'm just naturally very curious about what a customer or an audience wants, what their struggles are, what they're dealing with, and what do they need or what do they need to know. And um traditionally, media businesses have, you know, editors and writers, and we have editors and writers, and they're experts in the industry. And um so so on one hand, we're not writing the content. I'm not writing anything. Um and I'm not the one designing the editorial strategy. You know, that's again, you know, as we're going through due diligence here, looking for certain things that are red flags and making sure that there was, you know, the seller of the business was was not involved with the editorial really much at all. She was dealing with sales, advertising sales. And so, the editor who was there before, who's there now, and the the team of industry expert writers, you know, is all still there. So, the um the nuanced understanding of the industry um is is certainly something that was part of the business and and is part and it continues to be part of the business and something that we're going to continue to expand. And so, um for me, it's more of a puzzle. It's more about what does the audience want? How do we better understand that the the daily life of this audience? And how do we deliver them even better, richer, wider, deeper information that makes their um their their lives better, their job better, their business better. And so, it regardless of the industry, that um that makes me really curious. Now, I want to touch on something else as we had a trial by fire. So, um there's a there's a big automotive um aftermarket conference called SEMA that's in Las Vegas every November. And so, that is like the the pinnacle of of coverage, meetings with advertisers that occur for this business. And so, we were, you know, felt that pressure acquiring this business in August knowing that November was looming. And so, um so A, we had to hire a new salesperson who's who's a total rockstar. So, we have a new person who's in place that has handled all of the accounts that the previous owner had. But B, we we knew we had to have a presence there. And so, we met with um we probably had about 30 or 40 meetings over the course of the week. Um so, it was an exhausting week, but we met with everyone from senior leaders to all the different companies. So, when I say companies, like companies that make paint that go on cars or make the things that lift the, you know, the car lifts and and the technology, you know, cars have tremendous amount of technology in them. Now, all these different people, we met with tons of people. And what they wanted to know was, "Are you guys committed to this industry? Are you, you know, fly-by-night or are you serious about this?" And so, our job was to impress upon them that we're new to the collision repair industry, we're not new to the media industry, but we're going to take a better approach to this than we feel anyone is doing in the space. And so, um Hm. you can trust us, you can rely on us. And um that's worked. You know, we've built some great relationships already. We've been in this business for 6 months in this industry for 6 months. And and we're going to be at a conference. So, we're recording this on January 12th, and we're going to be at a conference in the in the next week um with more of these people. And so, um you know, they they wanted to know that that we're committed to the industry. And like you said, passion for it. Um you know, in an industry like collision repair, you know, people are not passionate at necessarily about someone wrecking their car. It's a traumatic moment in someone's life, but what where there is passion, there's passion in um developing um new people in the industry, so technicians, technician shortage, which is the same thing that's occurring in home services where no one can find um people to work in those industries. That same thing is happening in collision repair. And so, there's a there's a big focus on mentorship, on um customer commitment. And there's there's certainly not the case across everywhere, but um we felt like it's a very a very positive industry where um I hate to say it, but um there's a lot of cynicism in the entertainment industry. And so, there's there's a lot of unfortunately, a lot of just negative feed negative people, negative frames of mind. And so, that that is a big refreshing um change for us in this industry. Even though on the surface, people might say, "Ah, music, collision repair, how how can you possibly be more interested?" And it's and it's really not about that. Well, it's just about being obsessed with the audience and over-delivering for them. Well, that I love that at the very end there, Nathan. That's such a good encapsulation of how to think about a media business is is and really any business, just fall in love with your audience um and and become curious about them. And kind of the rest follows. Um and but but interesting to hear that these advertisers of of of your media brand What's the name of the business again? Auto Body News, was that it? Auto Body News. Yeah. The advertisers, the accounts that Auto Body News has as advertisers, that they did want to that they did press you to demons- to hear you say, "No, we're we're going to become part of this industry." In a way that maybe if you had bought an auto body shop or bought an HVAC business, you wouldn't have had the same kind of you know, "Hey, but do you care about this industry?" kind of confront- confrontational question put to you. Um so so there is a there is an element, I think, of what I'm saying, that passion is expected for people who are on the media side of any business. I think of the commitment is what was expected. Um not as much the passion and and you know, we we saw an industry and it wasn't it wasn't this wasn't an issue or anything with this particular business. It's just something we see across a lot of legacy B2B businesses, not the newest, most innovative ones, but a lot of legacy ones, it's incredibly thin content because those businesses are entirely advertiser driven, which which we are as well, but I think especially in a world of print where you know, the more ads you put in the magazine, the more profit you make. So, what would be the perfect magazine? A magazine with all ads and no editorial. You know, and so so that that's the incentive of a publisher. And so those incentives over time have, in my opinion, really reduced the quality of content. And here comes two guys from the entertainment industry where if you put out a song and it flops, you have no customers, you have no audience. And so you have to always be focused on you can't sell tickets, you can't get a brand to want to sponsor you. And so relentlessly focusing on the audience and connecting with the audience is in our DNA. And so we're bringing that to this business. And because of that, naturally, that excites the advertisers because the audience is more engaged and there's more of them and every everything that our metrics that advertisers care about um is all there. And so we know that the best thing we can do is care deeply about the audience and then also over deliver for our advertisers. And so um it's really you know, just can be simplified as that. Well, perfect uh transition into hearing about what you think the opportunities are. So, in in Auto Body News, but and but, you know, maybe generalizably uh generalizably across all B2B legacy media, what's the growth plan? What do you what do you see as the big opportunity? You know, for us, um we we look at it competitively and we um we think um for for us to win in this industry, and not always the case, there's different playbooks you can run, but for us the playbook is going to go is to be to go narrow and to go deep. And so where instead of being horizontal with a lot of media brands that that service similar industries, um we want to go really deep on this industry and that might mean more acquisitions, it might mean, you know, within this to bolster what our what our offering is. But ultimately, um we think that that is our path for for this business. And um in terms of if others are looking for for B2B media businesses, there's a there's a few things you want to look for. So, um obviously, some of the things we talked about already, you know, the the the durability of the brand, um obviously, health just healthy healthy fundamentals of a business, but more than that, the nuances that you want to look for is if it's a business that's advertiser supported, one thing that you really want to want to have is an industry that's has has heavy CapEx investments. And so in in the collision repair, that means the shops that that read our content, they have to um acquire big equipment. And if there's big equipment, that means there's companies that need to spend money to advertise that equipment. And because their their uh you know, sales are so large because they're selling large pieces of equipment, they can, you know, the the the cost to acquire a customer can be very large and still be profitable for them. So, if you're advertiser supported, having an industry that has that component is is important. The other thing that I love to say we were smart enough to to purposely look for this, but in hindsight, it's a real benefit is we're in an industry that is evolving tremendously. You know, years ago cars didn't have cameras on them. Now they all have cameras on them. So, when you wreck your car, those cameras have to be calibrated. There's, you know, the percentage of EVs on the road is growing. Everything is changing. And so if you're in the in the repairing cars business, you have this constant need for information, updated education. You need to know what's going on. You need to know how things are changing. It's not a stagnant industry. If it's a stagnant industry, you know, it's sort of hard to justify constantly putting out new content because it's hard to find things to talk about. But in this industry, it's um there's there's no shortage of things to talk about whatsoever. Great great points. So, high CapEx industry and uh an industry that is fluid so that there's something to write about, there's something to cover. Yeah. And and by the way, I love I love your high CapEx point. Um I'll just uh steal your thunder here. A count- a kind of contrast example that you gave me on our pre-call was like, you know, a trade publication for private equity people. Yeah. Right? And you'd be like, "Wow, there's a lot of money in private equity, you know, all these rich people." Uh but they don't spend money other than the actual actual acquisitions that they do. You know, they they spend money on, you know, airfare and laptops. Uh and and so so there's not a lot of cap- CapEx there. So, it's actually maybe not despite the fact that your audience might kind of control wealth, they're not actually deploying it into what advertisers might, you know, be paying you. Yeah, and the and the businesses that succeed in those industries are data subscription Yeah. business models typically. Yeah. Data data businesses. They're less They might have some advertisers, but it's not their predominant um source of revenue. And so, Nathan, with with Auto Body News, what is the Can you share like the pie chart of revenue breakdown? It's a healthy balance between digital and print and it's a combination of um automotive dealerships across the country who sell wholesale parts. So, those are all regional advertisers of ours. So, they sell so, you know, you need to buy you need to get Toyota parts at your shop, so you get them from a local Toyota dealership. So, they advertise. And then there's also national advertisers, which are, you know, the paint companies and paint gun companies and technology calibration companies and and lift companies, and all the companies that that produce products that are used in the shops. Um and so so it's a real balance between the dealership selling parts and the the capital equipment required to, you know, have a shop and to, you know, sus- sustain ongoing And so, did the business, as we have said, one of the classic assets for a B2B business, a trade pub, to have under the umbrella is an event. Um often times they have the industry event. Was there ever an an event that was a part of this port- part of the portfolio of this business? No no events in this business, but um you know, given our deep background in touring and events, you might see something from us in the future. Twinkle in your eye there, Nathan. Yeah, could it could be it could be something we do, but um but no, there's there's never been that in the past. Well, you know, obviously, if you can pull that off, that adds a lot of value to the business in kind of one fell swoop. Not hard not easy to pull off. Events are hard, but they can be incredibly lucrative if they're successful. understood why though that it adds it cuz again, you know, when I when I was part of CAA, our clients performed 35,000 concerts a year. Okay? And, you know, a concert is not is is is an event and it's nothing like um recurring revenue. And for some reason event businesses are, you know, valuable. And I I've never quite understood why because it's a every event is an enormous push to happen. It's not an inevitable thing that happens um like like some other types of service or uh or or subscription revenue. And um but for some reason they are. And but people love events, we love events, so I think I think it's in the future and and, you know, maybe we'll benefit from from some of that, you know, uh growth, but um but yeah, I've never quite understood that the reason for that. I think there are some important caveats there, Nathan, which might answer your question, which is which are you know, events can be incredibly lucrative businesses or business assets. It's not to say they all are. There are lots of weak and failed events. But when you have a hit when you have a hit when you have a hit event, the economics are just you got a lot of people paying for tickets and you got sponsors paying big money and the delta between your you know, your income and your expenses is really wide. But there and so that's, you know, that's why they can and if they and if it's in a growing industry tailwinds, they can become really big events as we have all heard of like giant events in Vegas for for computer industry back in the day or whatever for I don't know what it would be for today, obviously something tech related. Um on the other hand, they are fundamentally marketing exercises. So, they're also extremely vulnerable to economic the vagaries of the of the of the larger economy and then of course the the industry itself. So So yeah, volatility comes with comes with it. You were going to say? Yeah. I think it's it's it's more on an evaluation standpoint. You know, the more you know, when when when more sophisticated companies are looking to acquire media assets, they typically apply different multiples to different types of income and event income is one of the highest multiple forms of of income, which I think that's more what I was referring to is I just don't quite understand why because it's really you don't know if it's going to work until right until it happens and then it's okay cuz a lot of people don't buy tickets to the last minute or things like that and so it's it but whatever, that's what the market that's what the market is placed on it, but never quite understood that. No, and I don't either. That's a that's a fantastic point. Even though they can be very lucrative, I would I would consider it low quality revenue. It's not high quality revenue. Um the So for a guy who might be interested in B2B media acquisitions, you know, you find this business but you actually find it because you're looking locally on BizBuySell, right? You didn't It just happened. Yeah, it just happened. So the the question is Nathan like I don't feel like even though you said there are hundreds and hundreds of titles out there, which I I know to be true. I mean there there's basically there's basically a title for almost almost any industry of any real size. Um I don't feel like they transact. I don't feel like I see them after our conversation. Actually, I think even before we talked, I'd look for media assets businesses on BizBuySell just not even you know, not putting a geographic filter just looking across BizBuySell found very very little scant opportunities. So So it even though it's an industry that kind of ostensibly is fragmented lots of industries with lots of legacy B2B media, it doesn't actually feel like it's easy to come across a business like this for sale. You know, there's there's some specialized brokers who deal you know, in lower market lower middle market um media businesses and event businesses and data businesses that just specialize in those those kind of areas. Also, you know, now that I own one, my eyes are sort of open to everything around me. I go um and see a local apartment industry magazine and I go looking at it and this is full of full of advertisers and there's a list of staff on a masthead and I thought you know, who would have thought you know, it's just one one city in the country, you know, and so there's and that's a you know, an industry publication probably not a great business, but regardless there's there's so many kinds of niche or local media. Now, where do they transact? I don't know. Um it could be through some of these specialty brokers or probably it's a hard business too. Probably a lot of them go out of business as opposed to selling unfortunately and it's usually the ones who just have not been able to make the shift to digital appropriately. And so you you and your you and Paul have a long-term outlook here. Does that mean buying more? Um trade publications if the opportunities present themselves? Um I think I think for us we want to focus on in the trade media space, we want to focus on this industry. So if we do acquire more, it'll be add-ons or supplements to this industry. So it could be something whether it's data related, education related, whatever it might be that is complimentary to to this business. Um but there's we believe there's a ton of runway. It's unlike um something that might have a geographic ceiling on it or something like that. There's you know, frankly, we could you know, we could expand internationally. There's a lot of there's a lot of ways that that business like this can grow and so we think there's a there's a tremendous runway that we can take as far as we choose to push it. Well, you you mentioned or I mentioned and and you smart events. You just mentioned international. Can you share any of the other other growth opportunities you see or uh I mean for us it's really about especially for this year, it's really investing in the growth of our editorial quality output content everything around that. We're we're adding more writers. We're adding adding more industry practitioners as contributors. We're looking at other media formats. You know, we have a podcast. We're looking at more things like that and really focusing on the core of the media business. So what are the opportunities for the advertisers and really perfecting those and before we really expand into anything else. Events is definitely something we'll consider, but we'll approach it very differently than how others do it. There's there's a standard you know, sort of hotel ballroom package with the hotel room, you know, kind of sit in a room with with people on a stage and have you know, someone sponsors lunch. I don't think we're going to do that kind of format if we do events. I think it'll be very dramatically different. Um so we we still have to think through what that'll look like. Um and again, going back to what does the audience want? You know, that that those kind of events in this industry are more for executives at brands or executives at what what are called MSOs. So like big big operators of multiple shops, people who own 10, 20, 30, 50, 100 shops. Um they'll they'll go to things like that. So what's the what's the opportunity for the rest of the 35,000 shops in America? What's what's that event for them? So I think we're we're still trying to understand the audience to see where there's a real you know, need for something. This is fascinating Nathan. We're we're wrapping up here. I do just before we kind of take a step back and reflect on your overall journey, I want to ask one more question about the this business. So just the the print angle and you know, we we use we've used the word legacy was the word um in print and So and I guess advertisers still like print. I I know you know, you hear the arguments for print and and and you know, people want it advertisers maybe still want it. It's just it is hard for it it's hard for me to pick up a piece of paper these days cuz my nose is in my phone so much. So it's not that I have soured on print. It's just nothing just everything dies in the in the wake of my phone. The mom and pop auto body folks who are going to be 40 or 50 maybe they they're going to pick they're picking up they're picking up a magazine. 50 years 50, 60, 70. 50, 60, 70. Okay, well there's my answer I guess. They are still picking up they're still looking forward to flipping through the page. They're they haven't been captured by their screen like the rest of us. Well, and and it's also I think it's to the type of industry. So if you have a shop body shop, you know, you might have a break room or something like that where there is some magazines just out and the technicians are taking a break. So it's something to flip through versus I don't know other kind but but even most things you go into a doctor's office or veterinarian, you know, they have you know, veterinarian you know, they they have like their trade publications in there. And so but to but to answer your question, you know, some advertisers will say you know, right at the beginning of conversations with our sales team, do not talk to us about print. Don't tell us anything about print. We're only interested in digital. And then you'll have some that say, we don't want to hear anything about digital. We only want to know about print. We want that big full page ad. We want that false front cover. And then there's those that are on the fence and you know, we had an advertiser who was really you know, who was open to try things but was hesitant about print. And we explained some of our reasons why why we thought it was worthwhile and they tried something big with print and and it was a you know, like one of these wrap around covers and within days of the magazine going out they they were calling our team saying this was so like we're getting our phone is ringing off the hook. This is so effective and so you know, I don't know. It's it's again, it's definitely definitely industry specific. You know, I I find me personally, which I try never to really think about what do I like, you know, as a as a rule of thumb for what you know, what the what consumers like, but you know, being in in real estate investor, there's something called the real deal, which is a very large format magazine. Of course, it's a great website, but the magazine is just such a nice experience especially with big pictures of properties and you know, on my phone like you are too, but you know, the screen is is awfully small and sometimes you like that big that big picture. Of course, you can get it on your computer, but I don't know. Sometimes it's So people do there's definitely enough people out there that like the um the print. We don't know that it we we're not necessarily planning that it grows um by any means, but we think the growth is all in digital. But it's not um there's no shortage of people interested in it at this time. Couple last big picture questions for you Nathan. So we we've hit on both these themes already, but I'd like to kind of distill them. Your you guys had that exercise where you did acquire you looked at a lot of different home services and then a little bit broader broader than home services and ultimately kind of said, "Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Let's focus on what kind of business buyer fit. Where can our unique skill set as one puzzle piece? Where is where is our our matching puzzle piece?" Um And and you had kind of had kind of shared some some further thoughts with me about that ahead of our call. Any anything more to say to that or have you said everything you need to? I I've said a lot of what what was on my mind, but I just thought it was it was important to bring up because we were um you know, there's a lot of compelling content out there about why a home service business is right, and it's all and and all that content is true and it's right. But it's also you also have to consider about what's right for you. And for us there you know, it was also a geographic challenge. You know, we're in California. Um, the the contractor licensing regulations and laws are different in different states. In California um, that there has to be an owner of the business um, that or or equity holder who holds a license. And so to acquire a plumbing business, one of we we would have to figure that out. And now there's ways around it. Like not around it, but there's ways through it where you can have a general manager who holds the license, but then you have to come up with some creative equity type structure with them, and that's a lot of extra stuff to do in the front. And some people they want to do that, and that's what they're committed to. Um, when we were for a period of time, but we kept running up against issues as it related to that. And we also had a um an approach, a philosophy that we've carried into this business where we we want the business to be all all the operations of the business to to truly occur without us. And so if if it required one of us to have a license, then there was a flaw in that model for us. And it was the same with this business where the seller um, she did um, sales with some of the the the advertisers. And and I knew that from my experience if I certainly could do it, but for us to grow, we need to be focusing on different things. And so we needed to hire someone to replace that role. And so philosophically for us at least, we wanted to um, doesn't mean we don't want to work hard. We certainly work very hard, but we just wanted to make sure that all that core operations were handled by the team and not by us. Great. So that really we kept running into that as a hurdle with the with the home services businesses. Yeah. And brokers wouldn't take you super seriously. And after going through the the process of closing an SBA loan I feel like we wouldn't have even been able to get an SBA loan closed with the home service business because of they need the the license the contractor license holder needs to be a guarantor on the loan. And if you have a general manager who you just met a week ago, and now he knows you're going to be the new boss, and you're acquiring the company, and oh by the way, you need to personally guarantee your life on our loan, and all this different stuff. And it was it just introduced a tremendous amount of hurdles that sure, it's it's a there there's many aspects of it's not one industry, it's many industries, but it's a it's very desirable for very good reasons, but um, hard to transact in for non trade license holders in California. Well, that that was fascinating. Nathan, thank you for that because yeah, lots of lots of people lots of guests on Acquiring Minds have of course bought home services. Very popular category, although it's not having a good year. But um we often talk about why it's desirable. And you just laid out a pretty compelling list of arguments for why it's less desirable. And then and all those things are just getting into it. I'm sure once you're in it, you know, it has a different set of challenges just like any business has, but for us we didn't want to spend another five years trying to figure out how to get into it. We we needed to do something else. So um we had to pivot. Nathan, last question on your personal background. You have we been a theme throughout that you have an unconventional background coming from the entertainment business. You were also homeschooled, which which you had I was. Yeah, I I It's funny growing up as a whole you know, I was homeschooled from first grade to 12th grade. And um incredibly unpopular thing to do or unpopular to be homeschooled. And now I kind of smirk because kind of coming out of COVID um, and a certain segment of people like I certainly see parent friends. I see it online. People talk about you know, they bring up the concept of homeschooling, and I think man when I grew up, it was the most uncool thing you could possibly be as a homeschooler. But um, but you know, it was a it was unique. I I I I I'm very grateful that I was because I grew up in a small town in rural western New York, and the schooling was terrible there. And so I probably would still be there doing something you know, you know, not that not that not that useful at this point if I wasn't homeschooled, and it really taught me to be proactive cuz I just was given a list of here's what you need to do for the day, and I would just have to go do it. And so that was my schooling basically. Well, that that that neatly explains why you're such an effective autodidact. All those books behind you and you know, you take an interest in something, and you know you know how to learn it. Yeah. That's pretty interesting. And and also perhaps you know, your your willingness to kind of go go the um What is it? The path less traveled? Take the I should know this. Definitely the path less traveled. Yeah, yeah. The road less traveled. You're comfortable taking the road less traveled. Not uncomfortable with that. I I I tend to seek that out. Yeah. Anything I miss, Nathan? No, I think we covered it. I just wanted to you know, thank you for it, and I hope it's helpful to to everyone who maybe has an unconventional background and and is maybe not sure of where they're going or or what they're but they know they need to own a business, and they want to do it. And it's possible. It's you know, it's hard work, but you know, the winding path can sometimes get you there. Yeah. Well, I share your that that that I hope that is the takeaway of your story as well. It's such an important message, and you're such a shining example of it. So thanks for coming on, Nathan. If people want to get in touch with you, do you have a online channel of choice or LinkedIn will do or what? Yeah, LinkedIn, Twitter. Those are both great. Um Okay. Yeah. Okay. That's perfect. Great. You're also on SearchFunder, which is how I found you. I am. Yeah. So there too. But I I sometimes don't see things on there just cuz of the way it works. So I'd say Twitter LinkedIn's probably better. Great. Nathan, thank you very much. It's been a blast. Thank you, Will. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Make sure you subscribe to the Acquiring Minds channel below. We are now publishing twice a week. So tons of new interviews and stories to come. Stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business.