Being a charted manager means that you are a specialist in that area and it means you've got all the skills to do the job to the best of its ability. >> You are seen as a leader, a true leader who has credentials behind the great work you've already been doing. >> It's enhanced my understanding. It's enhanced my skill set. It's improved my mindset. It makes all the difference. >> This session is recorded and will be available on the CMI website and YouTube channel. Join the conversation by using the live chat box for your questions and comments. We'll answer as many as we can during the Q&A. >> Good afternoon everyone and welcome to the Connecting Generations, the Global Leaders Mindset digital event. My name is Ellen and I'm the events delivery manager at CMI. Don't forget to join the the conversation by using the live chat box. Feel free to ask any questions you have for the speakers and we'll answer as many as possible during the Q&A session. I will now hand over to Professor Lois Farerson, interim chair of the CMI Southwest board to begin today's event. >> And thank you so much, Ellen. Um it it's great to see everybody here. Um we're delighted that there's been such a great turnout for what is a fantastic topic area um and something that I think we are all as managers and leaders feeling a bit challenged by um at the moment. So today um we're not just going to look at stereotypes between generations. Um we're actually going to look at leadership and how to generate trust, inclusion, performance, and shared purpose around um the the utilization and the the value of um generations in the workplace um and and the experiences with that because there's a whole range of different aspects that as leaders we need to consider. Um so leading across difference is is something that we hope will really come out of today. So very delighted that you all came along. Please make sure that you do ask us questions. Um there's there's huge opportunity to do that and we'll do our best in this session to answer as many as we can um during the session as well. So really look forward to um welcoming our guest speaker in one moment. you will see that we've got a couple of polls that we'd like you to to complete for us. There are two of them today. Um so the first one is just to start capturing why you've come along to this session today um just to to give us an idea of um what your thoughts are. Um so we're going to have that put up on the screen um for you to to uh complete that survey. So, uh, just click on the the link and you can go into that. And while you're doing that, um, tell us what you know, what made you join this call, I'm going to introduce our fantastic, um, guest speaker today, um, who is Rebecca Robbins. So Rebecca um is just somebody who I have resonated brilliantly with um in in recent weeks whenever we got together to talk about this session. But Rebecca is the CEO of the interdisciplinary future of work consultancy that works across education, corporations, social enterprises. Um Rebecca is an expert in collaborative leadership, high performing cultures and especially for today maximizing the intergenerational workforce. Um so we are delighted to have her expertise here with us today. But um Rebecca also specializes in that delivery of crossf functional solutions to maximize culture, talent potential um and and really make sure that matrix organizations and the complexity of organizations can work together for good um and actually have positive impact. So Rebecca works across Europe, the US, Asia, um, and she has way more than 20 years experience of of working in this particular area. Um, and and looking at areas beyond multigenerational, so looking at things like brand as well, um, architecting centers, professional development. So we've got somebody with us today, um, who can give multiple perspectives to us. Um, and welcome Rebecca. We're delighted to have you with us. Um Rebecca and I are going to go into our conversation as quickly as possible so that we can give you as much time as possible with um Rebecca, but we can have a look in here um on our poll just to see what made you join the call. Um and the majority of you I can see are actually saying um it's an opportunity to maximize your talent and to have an opportunity to think about that um as well which is great to see because that is um Rebecca do you want to start by um commenting on that because talent is one of your big areas that you're looking at with multigenerational workforces. Well, first of all, thanks to Ellen and to you, Lois, for kicking us off with with such high impact, high energy uh uh tone for today. Um and and I I think shows up loud and clear in what's come through. I I saw the green line shoot very very strong early on and it's just wonderful to see that because um I think it gets to the beating heart of, you know, exactly what you talked about in the beginning, Lois, and why we're here today, the the the leaders mindset. And you know, one of the things, one of the many things that showed up from the global research behind Five Generations at Work, you can see the the book behind me came out um about a year and a year and a bit ago. Um and what was fascinating about that was to really understand what was what was going on with having five generations at work for the first time. And what I love about this response and clearly we have a lot of um maximizing uh leaders on our call today, no surprise, as we are with the CMI community and indeed beyond. Um but very much the spirit of the book was seeking to yes of course understand you know what is going on what are the drivers what are the different motivations because difference is absolutely there differences is key but instead of you know solving for lower common denominators um really seeking to understand what are the strengths of those differences what are the context you know surrounding a generation what do we even mean by a generation and so this the the subtitle of the book which frankly I would have loved to have had as the title is how we win together for good. So, I love that we've got a lot of people on this call with us today um really motivated by how we win together for good because a lot of this really glow is as we've said is is about doing great work with great people for great people, which has been true of business ever since I started out as as a young, you know, 21 year old. And um and I'm sure I'm sure and I'm sure it's the same for so many of us today especially when the context of our times are so challenging and there's a lot over which we don't have agency or have little agency certainly the leadership mindset as we think about the north stars for our teams our departments or indeed entire organizations that's on us and I think you know to see such hopeful mindset and such maximizing opportunity um in everyone today is a great start. >> Brilliant. Thank you Rebecca. So, we are going to plunge into some um questions and Rebecca and I are going to have a a little conversation around um intergenerational workforces. What we've tried to do is to look at some of the questions that have been submitted and actually incorporate them into our discussion today so that we can get through as many as possible. So, um, I wanted to start, Rebecca, by just asking you about are generations really the issue. Is it is it just about stereotypes? One of the questions that came in was from Luke. Um and it was really about um whether we should be using the concept of generational groups and this kind of like millennials and Gen Z and all of those popular images and and just the narratives around those um and can we change that? Should we do something different? >> Well, and it was a brilliant question from from Luke. Thank you, Luke, because you really you really plowed into a question that we were going to open up with. So, we've combined um your thoughts in into this into this opening gambit. Um and you know, thank you also, Lois, for sort of you know, really kicking us off with this is absolutely not about stereotypes. Um I think you know the world has had enough of um overlabeling boxing seeking to box people um in when you know we've lost frankly I think that you know the art of nuance and texture in so much of the polarizing debates and narratives that have emerged over over a number of years um and you know instead of these these lazy headlines and this divisive narrative which had emerged and was really getting stronger um and and you even see it I think one of the worst I've seen there and and bearing in mind that you know given the research up into the book and a lot of trackers that I have going on you know frankly 24/7 looking at what's pulsing I mean you think one of the worst was actually a headline which said which communication style is more justified I'm doing my quote unquote Gen X or Gen Zed you know I'm I'm not even going to finish the dot dot dot because you know we're all flabbergasted aren't we why are we why why is this showing up in in divisive media narratives so it's absolutely not about stereotypes and it's certainly not um about silos. However, of course, you know, some of the silo structures that we have got into um you know again they're not predicated on generations. They're predicated on you know often often structural systems that were fit for purpose for the workplace for um for how we operated very successfully maybe decades ago. But as we think about how the workplace is evolving, not least with in the context of the biggest demographic shift in the history of time. And by the way, as you know, I'm sure many of you know, we've got the you and I I'm hesitant to use another label, but it's the current name being used for that generation. So, it's not me saying it. It's out there. Um, but the next generation that will be in the workforce after Gen Zed is Gen Alpha. And that will be hard hardcore fact. If you we look at the population figures, the biggest generation, the the biggest generational cohort that the world has ever seen. And I'd love to come back to that actually Lois because again I think that gets in us into population dynamics. And of course that's a very different thing as we look at you know what is shifting what you know why are we looking at um uh at these population pyramids that I spent a lot of a lot of time um understanding working with um the population reference bureau in Washington which was absolutely fascinating thinking about where are these demographics shifting um and again we we'll come back to that but let's let's start let's start with um Luke's Gambit because it's such a powerful question um you know let's let's perhaps if we begin with what do we even mean by a generation? Because of course the generational terms that we all know that are out there in the media some I I would like to think that the book the book has be has played a role to some extent Lois as we talked about in in actually cutting through this division because it's so easy isn't it for clickbait headlines and this and this this division to become the norm to become the narrative when actually you know there's a lot more going on and so we need to be first of all very very careful of what is out there um I I would like to think it is starting you know to abate somewhat And there is a bit of um sense and sensibility making in the process. Um but first of all you know age has is only one dimension of a generation when we think about you know also where does as Luke was was alluding to in his in his brilliant question where does a generation even begin even begin and end. Now what is true of generational dynamics and generational shifts over time is that you know every generation grows up through the context of their times and and a confluence of of things tends to inform that. social, economic conflict and so on and so forth. So and of course over that period of time you know there is a context in which you know a generation grows up in those formative and normative years. Um so that's one important piece and then another important piece I think is is reminding ourselves that although you know gen zed millennial um gen X um boomers etc etc now genpha coming through um you know have have been rife in terms of the you know these sort of stereotyped and divisive headlines that that we've seen all over social media. Um, the reality is, you know, this is all western language and of course we're here in the UK, we're here CMI Southwest. So that that that's relevant in in so many respects. But you know another thing I was curious to look at in terms of some of the work I was doing was well how do we talk about generations from one culture to to another. You know how we think about Africa um in in Vietnam the 9x generation the 41 generation in in China all of which are linked to again formative and normative moments if you will defining um context of of of the times of of different um generational transitions and shifts. So, first of all, Luke, thank you for enabling us to air that and hopefully cut through some of the wrong conversation about generations because the motivations really in writing um five generations at work was um how do we really better understand what what what is going on because you know if we are living for longer you know and and we've got and and if I look at the data over the next 25 years it's absolutely fascinating because if you look at those population pyramids and again population reference there are there are tons of examples examples in the book, but what you see happening over the next 25 years alone, um they're all getting taller. Those population pyramids are getting taller and thinner as we are living for longer. And of course, as we're living for longer, there is a want and need to work for longer. So, thinking about, you know, what an aging population means, not in terms not just in terms of our workplace, but also as we think about, you know, the the broader infrastructure of connecting across business and society. um let alone as we think about um the sharp contrast to those aging population pyramids where broadly that tra that that trajectory of travel is is true um but I think as we close out just in terms of generational dynamics and this demographic shift which seems an important place to to start is there's some fascinating stuff going on which I don't think is is is necessarily being talked about in the media as much as it as it as it could be. Um, we've probably touched on and I'm sure many of us are aware of what's happening in Korea. There's a marketked decrease in in in people having children. Um, the lowest birth rate in the world. Um, and again, you know, we could do subseminars on all of these things playing out. Um, and and if we look at in if we look at Africa, the median age is is 19. Yes, the population is, you know, there is an aging trajectory of travel, you know, but if we if we look at, you know, nearly half of the world's young people are going to be living in Africa as we project out, you know, we looking at the data in the book, that takes us to 2050. If we truck on another few decades, that if we truck on another few decades from that, nearly half of the world's young people will be in Africa over that period of time, you know, and that's starting to come up fast as we think about, you know, where we're mapping that. So um closing out you know it's not about stereotypes. There's a far greater opportunity. what it is about is really understanding um what is going on in our organizations, getting into a bit more of that texture and and nuance and and also leading with it this again coming back to the leadership mindset that says we do have an opportunity here because I think finally Lois as as I mentioned in what I had this vision of early on. Well, surely if we have this melting pot of greater diversity of talent at work and by the way the same in the customers that we serve, you know, we all we we we have the ability therefore, you know, to better connect um that melting pot of skills, of perspective, of ways of working, of good judgment and pattern recognition over decades of experience, um of the difference in in in in ways of working and better put that to the service of the problems that we're solving for and indeed across business and society. Yeah, and I think just um there's so much to unpack there, but just thinking about the global leadership mindset in particular um given, you know, all the detail that that's in your book, but also the fact that we we have to start well, I'm sure we've already started thinking about the global mindset, but we really need to to to push forward with that. Sahil had a question about which mindsets um do leaders really struggle with in terms of trying to step into that multigenerational global leadership platform? >> He he did and it's interesting because I'd love to get your lens also Lois as we were talking about this from the world of higher education. So I'm happy to sort of kick off with um you know reflections on that but I but I very much love your lens as um as you look at the worlds of higher ed and and I think well Sahil again thank you for you know another really important question. I think what's interesting is how much it's often held within the different questions that we've received so far. Um and and we've often we've actually received over the past few weeks a number of questions around these firsts, you know, a first move into a global role, newly hired teams, um somebody moving into that management role responsible for for um you know, quite quite quite a a diverse group of people for the first time. So that those transitional contexts Lois I think is perhaps worth us um just reinforcing as people are thinking about their questions and the things that they're working on because certainly these transitional context you know deeply operative to today's conversation. I think certainly what came out consistently Sahil and I hope you're on the call today um is that understanding and communication came out consistently in the research you know the the the leaders who were already you know leading with a maximizing mindset seeing seeing intergenerational collaboration seeing seeing it connected to our ability to innovate to ideulate to sustain the ongoing relevance of our business. the fact that, you know, this is not, you know, another project or initiative that we're working on. Um, this is actually a red thread through the entire through line of our business. It's how we attract, it's how we motivate and retain talent. Um, it's it's really hardwired to the business strategy as we think about, you know, our our three to five year, you know, planning cycles and indeed even more. So just wanted to first open out first of all Sahil were that that that you know critical findings from from the research and from what I see with a lot of companies that I work with is that power of understanding and communication. So these were the organizations who weren't necessarily solving for tension and conflict. they had already sort of taken, you know, if there were if there were work to be done at that at that foundational level, if you will, they had already taken that next leap around, well, how can we turn this into competitive advantage? And so again thinking about how they were unlocking better unlocking understanding and communication across their organizations and we can come back to that. But I think certainly that that that global leader that first global leader role how how we embrace that notion of how do I better understand you know this this diversified group of people now that I'm working with that I'm responsible for. How do we look at communications across our organization? Um and of course that's a huge piece as well for a lot of um you know perhaps more hierarchical and some more traditional organizations which which have found it harder to shift from perhaps you know broadcast mode where it's you know the CEO on sort of mono broadcast to the entire organization there's one hit of communication to actually you know how do we need to meet our this expanding you know talent base that we have in our organizations where they're at not least then how do we think about better connecting our employee experience with our consumer experience. There's some really nice examples. Happy to come back to one with with Gucci from about just over 10 years ago that was just re really exciting what they did with the culture of purpose. But I think couple of things just to pick up on because the word struggle to heal that you use is is really interesting because it touches on maybe is it the the perception or the assumption um in terms of a global leadership um role when that you know you you're moving in you're making that transition going back to that transition that there is a need to become someone else or a slightly different version of oneself you know and I think separating out expectations of a first global leadership role that and ensuring that the the individual doesn't get subsumed or compromised by the title. I think again I'm sure we we've all seen that in in in many of our different roles on the call today. So again thinking about you know the real versus the false constructs. Um and I think another piece around you know to what extent there is that compulsion around you know role modeling through the strengths of ourselves or is it sort of you know fitting into what leadership looks like across the organization. um which may be fantastic but at the same time you know we there are a lot of cases where in these transitions it looks very different is a bit of a patchwork so um going back to that important point that we also you know talk about a lot with um from the CMI perspective it's always leading from the strengths that got you there in the first place you know going back to those best practices of being you know good manager how we how we listen how we better understand each other um but I think even more um even more so now as we're thinking about how our organizations are diversifying how we're thinking about and I paraphrase here um good old Einstein who probably you know I think this was the age that he was predicting when he said you know there will come a time when we'll see a quantum leap in technology which will command and demand a quantum leap in human relations and so you know that's why I think the these global leadership roles are so important as you know it's beyond that it's always being beyond the visibility but how we think crucially about that excel that accessibility and then finally the cultural piece that you talk about Sahil. Absolutely. You know, a lot of people transitioning into that first global leadership role will have had regional roles. They will have had exposure to um to and and within other markets. But for example, if you're now responsible within a highly matrix organization, you know, there's a there's a big um um uh there's a big um trunch of your your footprint for example in Asia and that isn't a region where you where you you haven't worked, you know, needing to understand the unique dynamics of a market such as Japan actually, you know, that's mission critical to to to those roles. But of course, all of this plays into that maximizing leadership, but you know, great global leaders, great leaders across the board, deeply curious, you know, seeking to better understand, you know, how they're accessible to people, that constant listening loop, and then getting the communication balance right across internal and external. But I wonder, Lois, what what do you see in in in higher ed? Because this is a world in incredible flux at the moment, not just in the UK, but but globally. >> Yeah, absolutely. And I think there are a a plethora of tensions that are are certainly seen within higher education. But if I reflect on um my experience of of being a senior leader in higher education, I in my previous role, I actually had an incredibly diverse um faculty um or business school. And in that context, people had chosen to move to the UK for their careers. They brought their families. So they had lots of different types of responsibilities. And I think for me it is it's about recognizing as a global leader that it's not just about leading across different countries. It's about welcoming people into the environment that you're leading in. um and understanding the the national cultures, but also um how to how to integrate all of that and understanding the fact that there is a huge amount of intersectionality happening because we're talking about multigenerations, but there are so many other things that intersect and have an impact on people's behavior, how they feel about their work, um and things like that. So things around actions around active listening, the creation of real communities at work and supporting that understanding between people from different backgrounds, different cultures and trying to get them to work in teams to get the best out of them um is it it is a challenge. There's there's no doubt about that for any leader. But I think that openness, that approachability, um, and that building of community that that you talk about, Rebecca, is so so important. It's soft skills. >> Yeah, it is. And I love your point about the collaborative leadership. Um, Lois, I think it's it's so important because of course, education systems um are not predicated on on on collaborative performance. you know is about the individual typically and by and large and that's again just UK it's across pretty much the world um the same in a lot of you know corporate education professional development settings when we're living and working in a time when actually what we need are ever more interdicciplinary solutions so the ability for us to come together and and we think about and it's interesting that you know doing a lot of work with Oxford there's been a study going for over 12 years now and they've they've looked at organizational values Lois and it's been really interesting because um one of the consistent values that come comes up it's is in the top three um across different sectors across different markets and um and dynamics but it's it's collaboration now. So what that says is that consistently we have thousands and thousands of organizations the world over across all these different sectors who say collaboration matters. What's interesting though is that when you get into the weeds of then how does collaboration effective collaboration show up inside our organizations how are we investing in that how are we making the space for that making the time how is it intentional you know how does it show up in our everyday work so I think you know I'm I'm deeply fascinated in some of the work that I do which is how do we close that say do gap I mean we talk about the say do gap a lot in a different context but I think you know saying we are collaboration saying saying that collaboration matters to us is one thing Um how we exercise the muscle of collaboration is another especially at a time when of course we are all you know learning at an incredible rate around how to collaborate not just with five generations of of human intelligence but also a new generation or new generations of artificial intelligence. So I'm really curious to hear from people on the call today, you know, especially when you look at that big number that was coming through around, you know, this hardwires into how we're looking to maximize where is, you know, is collaboration on on some of people's minds today. Um are there great examples of what people are doing? And I'll share one that's that that's really interesting that came out of um I mean it's it happens to be LVMH um group and and there were there were a number of others across different sizes and scales of organizations but the one that I went deep on in terms of the case studying conversation in the book was LVMH they invested and it's eight years go it's eight years strong now so that's another important point I think Lois that we'll get into more is this deeper intentionality you know the academic Cal Newport I'm sure a number of you will be um familiar with his So I love his work around you know this deeper intentionality doing fewer things well investing them in them and sustaining them and that's what LVMH did with this. So um the insight was simply that you know this is an organization that broadly has 75 over 75 different um brand verticals over 75 different brands some of which are the most um highly valued brands in the world. Um but the point is they are 75 highly articulated verticals where that flow of knowledge is outperforming. It's it's incredible. Um what was interesting as somebody was looking to um actually move from from one of those brands to another across the organization you know they' done sort of four years they thought I've realized actually we don't really perhaps know as much as we could from one brand to another through these different lenses. That's how we think more about knowledge transfer how we think about how we could collaborate more. Um so actually instead of solving the problem and actually just for herself and um and finding a new role um it's a beautiful story because she took a step back and she said um let me see if if if if if you know this is something that other people are seeing. So and and it's a great credit to her head of people and the head of learning. So if we've got heads of people and head of learning on this call every tribute because she sat down with them and said look I I've put a few things together. I'm connecting a few dots. Can I get a bit of a a sense check on that? And of course that's where this all began. And and so what was born as a result of a bit of dot connecting one individual going from you know solving a problem to herself for herself to actually thinking about how can we maximize an opportunity for myself for the organization for collectives of people. And of course that then has a long-term trajectory in terms of how you think about attracting and motivating and retaining future talent. That gets really exciting especially in a business that's 200,000 plus employees across the world. Um and that's how this platform for collaboration and innovation which is called DARE um was born. Um and so if effectively it's an entrepreneurial platform. It's um it's live throughout the year. It's it's not you know a project that gets thrown up sort of once a year and then goes away again. Um all the all the data is aggregated. So if if you're a if you're working for an any given brand and you know some of what's been created and and and and and exists on on that platform um is useful to your work, you can tap it up at any point in time. So it's it's it's fantastic. It's this like sort of delphic oracle um of of content and ideas that have been contributed from across the world. Um but the idea really is that LVMH says look we are constantly working on a whole host of challenges, some of which are hardwired to the sustainable development goals. they're relevant to all our brands. So, let's open source. Let's open source this to our to the best of our people. And what's brilliant though is then you've got people coming from different brands, cultures, areas, expertise, levels of experience, different generations. And by the way, this was nothing about it didn't have generation in the title or again going back to the point that you know generations are simply it's simply the con the construct through which we are working right. So, but it's just a beautiful example and and some of that work, some of those solutions are made real. The winning work is made real that that becomes a solution. And so, going back to your point about performance cycles, this is this is fantastic because, you know, people can see their their work come to life. You know, it's not an abstract thing. It's not something on the side. It's not an innovation lab. It's something that everyone can get involved in and it's deeply meaningful to us all. >> I think that's that is and it's so helpful. So if we start to move into what should leaders actually be doing and maybe take ourselves into some more um examples, practical examples of what should they actually do. We had a couple of questions from Leila and Josie. That's how say Josie's name properly. But it was really about multigenerational teams. Um and you've mentioned that before Rebecca, but it's about what works best. So, are there systems or structures? Um, and also what do you do whenever you have a multigenerational team with members that are like 10 plus years older than than maybe you are and there's there's a span of 10 years across the team. So, how how do you deal with that? That's a lot of um lots of things thrown at you all at the one time. >> There's a lot going on here. Well, thank you to Leila and Josie. I mean, we this we really started digging into this. This is fantastic. We may not cover all of it in the in the depth that it deserves in the time we have, but certainly let's try and speak to um a few a few of those points. I mean, Leila going going into one of the things that you talked about. I mean, it's such a pivotal and poignant question about systems decisions and and and how we better connect cultural and structural within organizations. I think just unpacking some of what you you were getting into there is first of all, how how do we inform decisions at our organizations? You know, I think there's a fascinating question within your question around how we arrive at that. And and I think in talking about this much more I think is so important around who is invited, who is involved, who's not involved in terms of how we're seeking to inform decisions on our team department or indeed across the across the organization. the times that I've done work in terms of um behavioral um dynamics as we look at you know whether it's you know full-on transformation through to evolution but um co-creation you know approaches that seek to co-create with our employees is you know nine times out of 10 by if not if not all of the time frankly um the f by far the best modus op that we can we can all deploy. Um but again it's surprising sometimes how it's often you know a small group of people who are tasked with whether it's you know an element of a change program um or indeed you know it's it could even be um our departmental or our team you know our weekly team dynamics in terms of how do we get together um and what does that look like so I think this simple act of a multigenerational lens whereby we don't even need to say it it just becomes a way in which we do things I was out with um uh with a number of family officers and family and and family businesses last week and again I shall be tomorrow. Um but it's and of course family businesses are fascinating because their entire purpose is to hand that business on to the next generation. But I think what's fascinating there is actually you know the word generational word multigener is is is very rarely used because it's simply you know it's it's embedded culturally and structurally within the within the organization. I mean there's a great example of of of Mars. Um that one happens to be in the book but I think you know Mars is interesting because we think about Mars and sometimes forget because of it sheer scale and size. Mars is, you know, one of the most successful family businesses in the world. And one of the reasons for that is going back to that cultural point. Um, getting into your going back to your um your framing, Ila, is um how how they how much they they they they focus on their their cultural principles. And one of those principles which is mutuality. So mutuality getting into shared value, you know, how we how we learn from and with each other. the stakeholder value you know that is not just transactional is actually transformational for us all that word mutuality is written written in ink um by uh by the founder back in the day over a hundred years ago I think just over 110 years ago and and that's important because you know that that one word it's more than a word that has been part of the founding principles of that organization and still going strong today and it shows up in everything Lois I think we've talked about this when you when you I think one of the acid tests is when people leave an organization and they are still talking it about an organization in the Wii. It tells you everything and you hear that when you talk and I'm sure there are people who maybe are working with Mars now or have worked with Mars. Um but you know speaking with three members of the Mars family, speaking with people of different generations across the Mars business. Fascinating how many times they talked about you know people who are you know been very loyal to to Mars have worked for many decades actually you know if they've changed job or if they've worked somewhere else um when they whenever they meet them they say how are we doing and they mean how are we as Mars doing so I think getting into a really important point around sort of how we going back to your inclusiveness but really what do we mean by that and how does that show up um second point Leila systems I say systems that fuel transparency traceability and accountability and I think again what going back to this closing closing the say do gap you know it's it's one thing for organizations to say this matters to us um it's another thing to to think about well how do we actively seek this contribution how do we ensure that that leadership mindset can cate cascades down so that that just becomes the way in which we do do things and of course what we're often missing is you know is is the structures to do that horizontal lines of communication much more sort of fluid communication is was a great um case study Actually I think it was an article actually HBR a number of years ago and it talked about you know the difference between organizations that run on currency and those that run on a current and of course you know currency is inherently transactional um whereas actually a current it's open it's distributed it's made by many and it's again happy to share that article if ever anyone hasn't come across it yet but I think it's a really nice metaphor for thinking about you know how do we naturally and organically encourage you know this multi-team context and Of course, the Google project Aristotle is a really another nice example. If you haven't read that one, I've also got the case study in terms of how they unpacked high performing teams. Now, that wasn't necessarily through the lens of multigenerational, but I think there are some really interesting um lessons there in terms of how they invested in better understanding early on of each other's strengths, um how they were going to communicate each with each other, how they were going to effectively collaborate before they'd even started the work. This it's just it's just a wonderful case study. Um so I think some pieces there Ila that you know hopefully play into some important points that you talked about. Um I think on systems that there is another piece that um maybe it will come into the performance piece but there's some really interesting data with the OECD Lois that I'd love to come back to because I think sometimes systems um you know as as we know systems can either be incredibly enabling um but they can also be incredibly constraining. I mean going back to the the LVMH point I think one of the things that um the person who founded that came up with that idea she said early on she said we don't want to wrap this overwrap this in uh key performance indicators and metrics before it's even got started. So I think you know this wasn't necessarily about KPIs but of course it does play into how you're managing a team and how we're looking at you know performance and certainly um the OECD has looked into performance systems over the over the past years and what they have found what they have found with some of those systems actually a very large number is that they are far from set up for maximizing the intergenerational opportunity that so many of us all voted for at the very beginning was the reason why we joined this call because a lot of them are still predicate ated on individual performance met metrics if collaboration or contribution in a more collaborative way is there it isn't often showing up in a very meaningful way so I think you know there's I think more that we I'd love for us to you know listen to each other and if there are things that you're seeing in your organizations about how can we look more intentionally at our systems which are wired on you know the much more collaborative ways of working that we need today but are going to need increasingly and then just finally to coming back to to um to Josie and We hope we've pronounced that correctly. Um, Josie, but um, I think again this is fascinating because you're talking about newly hired managers. It could be they're coming into the organization for the first time or it could be that you know they are there's if there's a new context so that somebody is is now responsible for a mix of people some of whom you know you were previously um, working side by side with. But I think just a couple of things to sort of double click on here always of course as we know from great CMI standards you know setting the northstar in your new role. what that means for the whole team and of course always playing to the strengths of the individual and the collective and I think emphasizing that point about you know what is it going back to the Mars mutuality example you know that was always about we're in business for the benefit of all and this is what we mean by that by that shared value and breaking it down for those in those those respective stakeholders so I think some of that goes a long way for for what you're talking about here and then and I think also playing into you talked about you know people who may have 10 plus years um uh experience and in and expertise and the mastery of their roles. Um uh the I think you you mentioned the engineer example. Well, that's a brilliant example I think to play into again everyone's strengths. They will be people who've had infinite ability to look at what you know what does good judgment look like over that period of time in in those roles. What does pattern recognition look like? Because we've seen so many different scenarios and we can you know really get to that pulse line really quickly. So and so I think you know leading as ever with that growth mindset you know we are the here learning from and with each other celebrating the wins along the way um will will will go far in terms of th those those new transition contexts. >> Brilliant. And one thing that just occurred to me just just listening to the the sort of discussion around kind of different generations and one of the things that I was thinking about was um the impact of reverse mentoring because there does seem to be a prevailing assumption that people who are perhaps in older and inverted commas generations they know more and they're more experienced. But in actual fact, given the rise of AI and tech and things like that, are we not in I I suppose a a more focused environment where reverse mentoring might actually be something that becomes more and more popular in multigenerational workforces. So I'm just throwing that in there, Rebecca, for your >> No, I love that. And again, I'm sure lots of people on the call here today who've got great examples of um all forms of mentoring. You know what's really interesting, Lois, is how much um in the research before publishing the book, um two-way mentoring came up across across broad generational mix. So, it was not tied to any one generation. We've always there was actually a big interest in it's much more about two-way mentoring, which speaks to somewhat of reverse mentoring, I think. And of course, you know, there are some really great examples if you know me mentor great mentoring will always be great mentoring um for the reasons that we know it's great mentoring. The reason I think sometimes that you know the two-way came up um versus specifically some examples of where people had had um poor reverse mentoring was when one it had been tokenistic um not intentionally tokenistic but it was felt as though sort of you know it was it was very much a one-way street um which was fine because of course the the desire was to learn from but it wasn't really set up in the right way. Um so I think thinking about if we are investing in reverse mentoring really understanding you know what the objectives are how we're looking to structure that um but this is why I think that you know the two-way came up a lot you know how can we learn from with each other this is a great example you know this is a great moment when you know we we can have that crossgenerational bridge and I think it's interesting you see I mean look as you know I'm a big fan of um of platforms and programs um it's not about many but it's about getting the right ones in our organizations that are relevant for us at a certain period of time. I mean, one of those I've I've I've been championing this for the best part of 10 years now, which goes back to my Gucci example. I'll come back to, but um I've done a lot of work setting up um or advising um um uh leadership teams to think about, you know, how do you elicit, you know, that that great insight from people across your organization? What are you not listening to? Um do you have the time to horizon scan? and how do we formalize that in such a way that it's not ownorous for the organization. It's not, you know, copious amounts of cohort after cohort. But that's why the next generation board, which is effectively um aspiring partner that works hand inhand with the board or with the leadership team. Again, it's what what's great about next generation boards is that they take very many different shapes and forms. Um but broadly, you know, that structure and framework works for so many organizations. And the purpose really is is again to open up a bit of more of that that crossgenerational conversation which is with which which really is the beating heart of mentoring reverse mentoring two-way mentoring however we we might structure it what the FT has done the Financial Times it's really interesting they've got a next generation board that is literally called next generation board um and it's been going for I think coming up to seven years now and it's a really good example because it was born from going back to the leadership mindset of Lois um you The FT is, you know, fantastic, wellestablished brand, high performing, but of course it it functions across a whole whole host of different um departments and business units and um as they were having conversations around how they were looking at leadership and leadership development, leadership succession again and this was inspired by one individual and I I have to emphasize this because I think so often um the misnomer is that oh but a lot of these things are surely they take a lot of time, there's a lot of investment, there's a lot budget. In so many cases, the reverse is true. It's just a bit of intentional thinking. One person or two or three people with a bit of agile support from the right people in their organization, we can actually get, you know, the most relevant things going, which is why I go back to that that that that um response to, you know, why so many people join today. We want to maximize the, you know, the this this potential of talent. So that FT example is great because one of the things they do Lois is every next generation board member and there are typically um between 10 to 12 in any cohort. Um each one is paired um with a member of the board and it's been highly successful. The fact that it's still going you know seven years on um it's not tokenistic because they talk about it very openly. It's talked about in their annual report. Um they talk about you know again obviously um not in uh in in huge amounts of detail but you know there is a there is a very open sense of who the board are who the next generation are what they're doing um how things have have have evolved over time and as I always say you know when you when you listen to what the CEO talks about um at events conferences to the market and to the media that tells you a lot and John Slade was I think I've heard him speak two if not three times already this year and he consistently brings up um two really interesting examples of it's not even necessarily framed as crossgenerational but it's exactly that it's you know where they have overtly and intentionally listened to um people in a way that they wouldn't have listened to and the results they've achieved have achieved um as a result and the next generation board of the FT is one that John um John John references um with great you know pride and that sense of commitment to why this matters to the FT and as an example for others to learn from which I love Yeah, I think that is a fantastic example of of a really open initiative to to bring generations together. I'm just conscious that we've got more questions. So, I'm going to ask Ellen to um pop up some of the the live questions for us so that I can um keep asking Rebecca lots of questions. Um so, what have we got? Um, hold on one second till I I'm having I'm having slight issue at seeing what the question is on my screen for some reason. >> I can see it on my screen if that's helpful, Lois. >> Yeah, can you go ahead and answer that question? Yeah, we've we've had one come up here when we say younger employees need more psychological safety or older employees are more um resilient. Aren't we in intentionally reinforcing stereotypes? Well, Carlos, thank you. If if I'm again, it's very small on our screens, but on our screens this ends because we see something different to you all on on the broadcast screen. So, I hope we've captured that. Um that's really interesting what you're playing back. Um, is that something that you have interested to know if that's something that you know you've heard or seen that's prevalent? I mean certainly what's I think what you're getting at is is language as part of this and actually how we need to be very careful about the language they use. I I remember I I remember actually before the book came out the times that we still and I don't know if if others still hear this on on the call where it's um younger talent older workers. Why do we say that? Why why is that said? I mean, we're not saying that on this call. Everyone who's joining this call is not saying that, and Carlos is not saying younger employees, etc., etc. But I but I love what you've opened up and unlocked here. It's one of my favorite um, you know, areas of of debate and discussion and and actually solutions, Carlos, is it's it's it's in the language we use. It's absolutely just being a bit more thoughtful and intentional around the language that in the same way that we're making assumptions when you know some organizations are talking about AI fluent um Gen Zed rising into the workplace which is at the same time you know whether overtly or implicitly um suggesting that potentially it's older and more experienced workers don't have a clue about AI. So we need to be very very careful about assumptions that we're making. Um the per the perceptions misperceptions because I mean you know a you know we'll all give tribute to Amy Edmonson who's done great work on psychological safety still does. That's true for everyone. That's true for any organization which I think goes back to that's why I'm such a big believer in you know if only we were to actively invest in building more collaborative muscle whereby we don't even need to say we're collaborative. it doesn't need to show up in an organizational value because that's just what we're known for. Clients will come to us because we're one of the most collaborative partners because our people spark from and with each other in a way, you know, where there aren't the, you know, the sense of underlying tension because they've got to know each other. They thrive on working with each other and that's that's that's an intrinsic part of their culture. So, um, again, huge huge love for the question that you've posed, Carl, it hardwires and again I think we could do a deep seminar and webinar and please join us for that. let's do something together on on language because it's absolutely mission critical. >> And I I totally agree with with Rebecca on this even the word using the word resilience when you look at what that means in our context now it's not the same as what it might have meant before and I think it's dangerous to just say to people you need to be more resilient. So I think there there's a lot more work to be done on the psychological safety side and making sure that everybody feels psychological psychologically safe um from any generation. Right. Next question and then we're going to have to have our final comments after that Rebecca. So um Claire Claire has said she works in an industry where the demographic is 40 plus. How do we make our organization attractive to young talent? >> Yes. Great. Well, CLA, that's a a brilliant question. It's a common question I get from a lot of companies that I work with. I wonder if I I I know we won't be able to do live exchange because that's how the the dynamic is set up. But, um, if we could, I guess the questions I'm bouncing back to you are, you know, I'm not sure which industry you're in. Um, but, you know, is there a suggestion that the industry may perhaps perhaps be um, you know, um, less attractively branded, let's say, um, for for young talent? How can we understand what the blockers are and why? And I don't know how old the organization is. um and how previously the organization has attracted the next generation of talent in the past. So again, a few variables obviously that we'd need to go to go into, but you know, just I and I and I think as ever just playing back a few questions just interesting to to unpack this because there are some variables that we don't know behind um CLA's question, but you know, has there been a gradual decline in younger talent over a period of time? What are the contributing factors? Because sometimes it's that career ceiling which is getting hitting earlier in a hierarchical industry where not suggesting it is CLA um but where or in in context where progression is seen as you know higher thinner along a a very narrow pathway for somebody starting off their career potentially that's an industry or an organization where it seems too limiting even if it may not be reality. um if it's an organization where you've got highly loyal staff where people stay for decades which can be a fantastic thing and some thinking about knowledge transfer etc and all the benefits that come from that it could be where you know young talent sees little opportunity for you know potentially how they can progress rapidly um but I think as ever you know we are maximizing leaders as we've as we've seen on the response to the first question that you asked Lois on the on the poll um I wonder is that how can we turn our culture into then our our sort of um secret weapon if you will because is there an opportunity if it is an industry thing if it is or somewhat related to the industry you're in. How could your organization your brand become the one that really stands out from the crowd and puts great storytelling to good use? You know this this could be the the one that really turns it on its head and it becomes about problem solving innovation. Um you know what what for example does your organization win awards for? I am sure there are countless examples of things that you win awards for. What does that tell us? Um are we telling therefore the stories? Because I think that's that's really interesting around what are the stories maybe that we're not telling that we could tell and if we are telling them are they reaching the people that we need to reach both within our existing body of talent but also in the people that that we want to um attract and motivate. Um so and again I think it comes comes down to sometimes you know simple things such as and again you I'm sure you're already doing this already but in other organizations the times I was often asked well who shows up outside your organization if we think about the conferences the events you know who speaks at these is it always perhaps um the same people the same um one or two people perhaps always the most senior people in the organization or do we think more intentionally about um a much more crossunctional crossgen approach and there's a great example with Mishon Mishon Derea the um the law firm um I've been to so many of their events and conference conferences over the years and they're so intentional about it's not just the partner it is partner and the team that have worked and they present together and it's you know it's co-pres and that's a very simple thing to do that we could all do but I do think maybe there's a ninja move there cla in terms of in terms of the storytelling >> thanks so much Rebecca um we're we're just about at the end so I'm gonna give a very quick final final set of words to Rebecca just to summarize what she wants you to to take away for your organizations as leaders from this session. Um, and also to say thank you so much to Rebecca for all of her inputs today. It's been fascinating and watch out for the the Southwest LinkedIn because we may have some more answers to your questions in due course. So over to you Rebecca for some final thoughts and then we we will close. Well, and also a huge thanks to you, Lois, as chair of the CMI Southwest. I think the CMI Southwest um you know, one of the biggest regions. It's just phenomenal group of people to work with. So, thank you for inviting me and involving me. Um three very quick things I think. Let's leave us with a bit of a what what practical things could we do on Monday and how could we think about shifting the needle. I think again going back to that point with Claire, one, how and where do we show up as an organization? Is it always with the same people? Could we put different people forward for things? And you know, how how do we how do we even think about that in our everyday meetings? and uh and and day-to-day. Second of all, role modeling um thinking about, you know, putting a multi- lens um uh spin on things, put a multi- lens perspective, you know, how does crossgenerational thinking and ways of working just becomes that's just that's just what we're known for as a brand. I mean, how beautiful and compelling is that? Who wouldn't want to work with an organization? As I was just out in Switzerland last week and this came up a lot. Um and third, you know, this is the Chartered Management Institute. So, I'm going to end with a big call to action for um something that I think we could really lift the roof on, which is owning the multigenerational manager because the multigenerational manager is one of our mo most unlocked assets in organizations. There is, by the way, a brilli brilliant article in the New York Times about 18 months ago that I can happily share with people. Message me on LinkedIn or I can find it for you. But this is the crux really of so much of what we're talking about today. uh manage are so much they're very much the most vital and val valuable people in our organization who operate as across the entire horizontal. They see so much if only we can really liberate and empower more of their roles as catalysts, conduits and connectors and important I think for us all to celebrate and recognize that and thinking about maybe next week what are the what are the shifts that we can make to really take our multigenerational managers to the next level. >> Brilliant. Thank you Rebecca. What a fantastic event. Um, thank you Lois and Rebecca for such uh an inspirational event. Um, and for sharing your insights and expertise. Um, please stay tuned to hear more about CMI membership and thank you all for joining us today. Have a good day. Don't forget as a CMI member, you can find the latest management and leadership insights at managers.org.uk. 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