Check podcasts. >> The Bread and Butter Collective is a collection of hospitality professionals working together to help strengthen our industry to build strong culture, community, and sustainability. I'm Kaylin McNeel. And I'm Sam Jones. And this is the breadandbut podcast >> and this is part two with our guest Andrew Wilkinson. >> Well, I I was listening to an old episode um and you guys were talking about Kayn had that building project and it's like nobody is winning here. It's like the landlords are making no money. The people building buildings are making no money. The people don't want to pay for the crazy housing prices. And I I do >> maybe I'm wrong, but I do believe it's this little tiny pipe. And if we just increased the pipe and made it easier, I think that would probably be better across many dimensions, whether it's labor or permitting or whatever. >> Hello. the the flow rate of permitting really does need to increase across Canada for our housing crisis, for our construction. It just we need quicker response times from our our governments. I mean, we we elect them, we pay them, yet they hold us back. It feels like >> you you got to remember the incentive is like you've got all these rich people in Oak Bay and they've all taken out big fat home equity line of credit lines of credit on their big house that's tripled in value over the last 30 or whatever years. >> And the more housing that gets built, the more busy their street gets. They're old. They want to relax. They don't want a bunch of construction noise. it uh they don't want this the place that they grew up or that they think is home to change and they don't want their property value to drop because if there's more density sometimes the property value drops because suddenly rents aren't as high to some degree it makes sense and I can empathize with that but I just think like the old people need to move aside and make some room for the rest of us you know. >> Yeah, I I can totally relate to that. I I moved to Mitchosen 25 years ago maybe now and I got really lucky. We got a beautiful house in Machosen and it's just it's great. I love it. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else really but you know people are adamant Machosen about no more growth and I I kind of agree with them because I I feel the same way. you get more traffic, you get more people. Um, it changes how come you move there to begin with, right? And all the work you put in to pay for a house or build a house kind of gets diminished if you're not seeing the same results as why you moved in there to begin with. Um, >> but people that listen to the Beatles thought that punk music was disgusting, right? I think that's the job of old people, right? every every It's so funny like you know 20 years ago everyone was saying like um >> uh you know old people don't respect us and we're going to do great things and all this stuff. Right now flash forward all my friends are 40 to 50 and they're all convinced that kids these days are weak and the next generation is doomed and the the world is doomed and they're all prognosticating on this and I just go like this is the natural state. So in our 40s, we're going to be all about we got to, you know, make sure that this the youth don't take over in the wrong way. In our 60s, we're going to calcify. You know, you don't want to hear any new music. You don't you just want everything to be the same. And I think that only people who really look in the mirror can see that and realize like you need to move aside and let the next generation actually do things because in my opinion, I think Victoria is dying. like I I I feel >> like like culturally or or economically. >> I just I just think that it's there's and maybe this is my own perception or age, but I feel like from I almost moved away. So like I when I first started when I first moved here when I was 15 I hated it and then I kind of fell in love with it and in my early 20s I I wanted to move away but my business was here my girlfriend was here and I almost moved away and and then I started seeing all these really hopeful signs you know the atrium opened suddenly there's all these new cool businesses out of the blue and I was going oh there's there's critical mass there's rifflandia there's all these things happening and then I feel like from 2018 to now it has been a very sad place where you see a lot of fleas signs. Um you know downtown is not and I'm not one of these people that's like oh the homeless people has have ruined downtown. I just mean like the state of the actual storefronts. It's like vape shops and depressing stuff not new vibrant businesses. And I think that um that is sad. And I think that could be a demographic problem of just everyone's old. Uh, it could be that the people who have money here don't patronize the places they should, but >> or or they're patronizing the places that make them comfortable, which aren't necessarily the new up and coming the golf club. >> Yeah. Yeah. They're going Yeah. >> But if you look at So, in New York, there's this great saying they say, um, every cool restaurant in New York has a banker's penance. So what what that means is all these rich finance douchebags and they all go off and they make their money in their dirty ways, but at least they pay it forward by trying to be a big impressive deal and so they fund some restaurant tour. They give a restaurant tour a million dollars and they start a great restaurant. So it's a banker's penance. They pay for the city's vibrancy and they afford that. And I think that in Victoria, the number of wealthy people I talk to who are actually doing something for the city is low. I think Victoria is a place where a lot of wealthy people go to retire. They put their money in a stock portfolio and they don't pay it forward. And I don't think that I don't think everyone should be giving all their money up to start local businesses, but I think they should be taking a little bit of their money to make the city more vibrant and fund more entrepreneurship. >> No, I I agree that we need an injection of culture back into Victoria. It feels like it's lagging. You you you were saying you saw that start to change in 2018. What was happening in 2018 that makes you think that that was a start of kind? >> I think there was a period where one of the sad phenomenons I've seen in Victoria is like whenever a new restaurant is born, a great one closes. And so I think I just started seeing more things closing than opening. and people that had previously done really well not. So I've seen this thing where you know a new restaurant opens in Victoria and everyone goes to it for a period and then something else new opens and so everyone walks over there and they stop going to this place and so a lot of people go to business and it's just not sustainable because you can't increase prices, food costs are high, labor costs are high and it's just it's hard all around for all the reasons we talked about earlier. And I don't know if that's just normal, that's just the state of things or there's something about Victoria specifically because I see the same thing. But when I go to Vancouver, like, you know, we own restaurants and so we see our occupancy and reservations and stuff. You can walk into almost all of our restaurants any night of the week and you get a spot no problem. If you go to Vancouver, even like third tier restaurants are book solid. They're vibrant. They're buzzing Thursday, Friday, Saturday. I don't get that same feeling in Victoria. >> I I don't either. And I actually um I haven't been to Vancouver in a long time really. I used to go there all the time. I grew up there and at the time I knew lots of places. I don't know lots of places in Vancouver anymore, but when I do go and I eat out, it's a totally different experience. Uh maybe it's the kind of places that I I'll go in Vancouver as a treat where I wouldn't maybe go spend that kind of money here cuz it's not a treat for me. Um, but yeah, the whole experience feels more professional, more hospitality, and that's not to take anything away from Victoria and the hardworking people in our industry cuz Lord knows it's a struggle. But I think it's far more of a commentary on the on the people who live there and their dis and what they choose to do with their discretionary income is they still go out to eat in Vancouver whereas maybe not as much in Victoria. People seem to hold on to what they have in Victoria more and in Vancouver it feels like they're just outdoing more. I remember um when Marina was being built um you know I was looking at it and going how is this going to be in business in a year? Like I I joke to a friend like I look forward to you know renting that space once they're out of business because there's no way like how are they going to charge huge amounts and be busy and you go to Marina most nights of the week and it's actually pretty busy and they're doing really well. At least that's how it appears from the outside. And I'm really glad they are because I I love it. It's great food, but it's incredibly expensive for Victoria and very high-end. And I always look around and I just go, "Who are these people? Who are these people that can afford to spend $300 or $400 for dinner? And why are they going to Marina, but they're not out everywhere else?" Right? And I don't know whether that's a culture thing. You know, in Vancouver there's a culture of status and you know, you go and you get fancy reservations and you get a big bottle of champagne and you show off. people drive Ferraris like that. There's there's a little bit of an element of that. But I also think people just spread their money around and they're younger. Young people want to go out. They want to spend money and they actually have money in Vancouver because you've got these big law firms, you've got big accounting firms, um there's tech companies, there's all that stuff. And I just think in Victoria like the money is just very old. Most people that have a lot of money are old and they're at home. They're at the golf club. They're at Marina. And no shade to that. That's fine. They can do what they want. It's a free country, but um but yeah, it's a weird dynamic. >> Yeah, it Yeah, I I was in Vancouver and I went to eat at at a place called Garry's. And um >> Your son works there. >> He does work there. >> He was amazing. He was my server. >> Okay. I I forgot he he did tell me when you came in. Um I forgotten about that. And that's like like why I went there because my my son worked there. Otherwise, it may go right past my radar and it wouldn't be the kind of place that I would go to cuz I wouldn't be sure if I get the value. I'm very value conscious. I'm part Scottish, so just calling it value conscious. Um, and so, you know, I I I would almost rather go to the grocery store and buy some food and eat my car. Uh, but I went and oh my god, it was just such a great experience. And I was thinking about all the times I eat out in Victoria and I don't get that same feel when I go out to eat here than Vancouver. And I think it's just I think like I said I think it's partially just because people do go out so the restaurants are full so there's a better vibe so the employees are happier and they're they are having to be more professional. I think there's so so many things that come at that and Victoria feels like how can you be at your top notchotch and offer the best hospitality when you're struggling on the inside. >> Well, no. when everyone has gray hair. There's there there's an element of that of demographically Victoria is >> you got people 18 to 22 and they're all up at UIC and they're not really spending money and then you've got people that are 32 and up and mostly older. And so like when I go out for dinner most of the time I'm surrounded by people with gray hair and I do think that's a big element of vibrancy in a city. >> Victoria, the home of the nearly wed and nearly dead. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. So, you own a a group of restaurants in Victoria. Is that the only town or do you own anything in Vancouver Hospitality? >> I used to own um Alibi Room. >> Oh, yeah. >> But I bought it and it didn't go well at all. It was just I I love that place. It was kind of the same theory of like, oh, I used to go there all the time and loved it, but I didn't realize how much Gast Town had changed, especially that side of it. And so, it was just dead. We lost too much money. We ended up having to sell it. Um, but no, nothing in Vancouver. And it goes back to like I only want to do things that actually have benefit to Victoria, right? Like I want to I want to put it into our community, not Vancouver because Vancouver, whether or not I do stuff there, things will be fine, you know? >> Yeah. Now, you mean to put it mildly, you mean very financially successful and yet you're still in Victoria. And I I think that fact is an an amazing fact to begin with because you could live anywhere you want in the world, I'm sure. Yet you have your main house in Victoria. You have your family here. What is it about Victoria that keeps you here when really you could be anywhere you want? Well, I think >> I I assume it's because you choose and you want to be here, >> but I'd say like um I grew up in Vancouver and in Vancouver um status was a thing. So, oh that guy's dad drives a Porsche. Um they're rich. These people are not. People are put in buckets and there was this status even as a kid. And I feel like in Victoria if you drive a Ferrari down the street, people give you the middle middle finger. You look like an idiot. And I really like that about it. I think that Victoria is kind of a great equalizer in that way. Um, and I think it's good to be away from all the ego and and you know, showing off and all that stuff. And so I like to travel and go to LA or New York and have an amazing meal or see, you know, a crazy art gallery or something. But Victoria is where my friends and family are. And I've realized that sure you might think I I remember I read a um biography of Lauren Michaels, the SNL guy. Yeah. >> And I'm reading it and I'm going, "Oh my god, he's like friends with Paul McCartney and Paul Simon and what this cool New York scene and all this stuff." And and you realize like, >> okay, that's kind of cool, but I have amazing friends who are incredibly I have all these amazing deep connections with people and the fancy people. When I meet the fancy people, the big names and all that stuff, most of them are like very unbalanced and have personality disorders or crazy. Like I think it's kind of like uh in music, right? Some of the greatest musicians of all time are also mentally ill like Kanye West or Michael Jackson or people like that, right? And so the same is true in business or art or any industry. And so I'd rather actually hang out with normal people who are not insane. Um, and so I just have a really amazing community of like entrepreneurs and friends in all I mean, you know, comedians, all sorts of little industries here. Um, and I just I love that. I just I like people and there's great people here. So, and it's just beautiful and calm and awesome. So, as a home base, I love it, >> right? >> But I also do feel like there's amenities here that just, you know, it would be nice to have be nice to have more vibrant restaurants, more live music. um more more things to keep young people here. >> Yeah, there there really doesn't feel like there's a a lot to offer the next generation, even though I think they're going to be fantastic. There's that mid age group, the 20s to 35 year olds that I don't I don't have a lot of great experience having as employees. I'm sure they're all great people. Um, but newer newer and the younger generation, they seem to be really hardworking, really driven. they know what they want and they feel like they're a lot smarter. Um, so if I were to hire people now, I think I'd be hiring kids again. And there was a time where that wouldn't have been the case where I was saying, "Oh, no. I just want to hire older people with experience who know a little bit about the world." And then there was this whole kind of generation that I ignored. And now there's this new crop of potential employees and young wonderful people who I I I think they're going to they're take Victoria and they're going to make it their own. >> Totally. I mean, imagine if like uh you're 50 in 1970 and you're looking at all these insane hippies and hate Ashbury who are like groovy man and they're doing acid and they're saying like we need communism and all all sorts of crazy stuff. you would be like, "We are doomed. These people are gonna destroy society, right?" And then cut forward, you know, another 50 years, they run the world and everything's been fine. And I think like, well, to some degree, it's been it's been like it's not what you would expect, right? It's not as bad as you would expect based on how insane that period was. And I think like generally this is yeah the world is going to change and um we're gonna we're just gonna it's going to be foreign to us as we get older and I think you just have to accept that you know it'll be fine. These the kids will be all right you know. >> Yeah the kids will be all right. >> And maybe it's not the kids that are changing. Maybe it's just me getting older and seeing them through more experienced eyes, a totally different perspective than I had maybe 20 years ago. >> I think about um so I have a I had a 13-year-old golden retriever who just died actually a couple months ago. >> And then I have a um 2-year-old German Shepherd and I was in the backyard throwing the ball for them. And the golden retriever, you know, at 13 he mostly just lay around and he was very chill. But the the German Shepherd, he was still a puppy. He's totally insane. And I had this moment where I was like, "Oh my god, I remember when the golden retriever was totally crazy and and hyped up." And he had this kind of thing where he, you know, got more and more hyped up and then he kind of matured and then he kind of chilled >> and it was like a long slow chill. And I think that humans are a bit like dogs where we have our up and then we kind of chill. And I think it's just the natural state of things. And at certain points of life, you're just like, I can't be bothered with this. You know, I don't have the energy to go and do that. And I'm starting to I'm 40. I'm just at my kind of cruising altitude, and I'm going to start getting crusty and old and frustrated with the world, I'm sure. But I can't I can't deal with >> with stress in the way I used to be able to. >> You must have experienced a ton of stress just opening business and being kind of manic about it almost, right? just like got an idea, just build it. Um those days, are they kind of done right now for you? You're being more methodical about your approach to new things. >> Yeah, I don't. Um so about a year ago, I got diagnosed with ADHD and I was doing a memory test and they said, "Look, your your working memory is terrible. You probably have ADHD." And I I was so skeptical of ADHD. I was like, "That's BS. It's a madeup thing. uh there's no way I have it. You know, I've started all these businesses. Um all these negative connotations from when I was a kid. And when I started reading about it, I was like, "Oh my god, this describes me to a tea." And and then I started taking the medication. And it was like my brain went from like Times Square chaos, impulsiveness to a quiet library where I could actually be intentional about doing things. And I think for me, like it's kind of a gift, right? you start all these fires, but then there's a lot of fires and you can't put them all out and you got chaos. And so I think a lot of it was me not treating my ADHD for 20 years. And now I feel like I can be a little bit less impulsive. Like if you came to me and you said, "Let's start a, you know, pizzeria, whatever." I would think a little bit more before saying, "Hell yeah, let's go." >> Hell no. or and I would also go, okay, well, I know that I have ADHD, so I can't do it. I can't do it unless we find someone who's 22 and they're experienced and they want it and they're going to put some money into and they're going to have skin in the game. Yeah. >> And you know, I I know what the recipe is now for something to work. Um, and so I'm way better at saying no. Like I say no to 99% of things, whereas before I'd say yes like 60% of the time and then I'd wake up one day and just be like, I have 40 projects going on. I'm letting everybody down. This is chaos. You know, I'm lighting money on fire. I'm just doing so many dumb things. >> Huh. So, there there were definitely um some some good aspects of your ADHD mind like you your producing, being productive, accomplishments. Um, in hindsight, would you have changed that at all for the calmer mind that you have now? >> Well, someone said to me, I have a friend who's like very, he's got the ADHD kind of archetype. And so, I've said to him, I've shared my experience and said like, you know, you should consider um medicating because for me um the biggest effect, forget being less impulsive. It was also just I don't feel anxious. I felt anxious all the time before I started taking the medication and my anxiety went from an eight out of 10 to like a one out of 10. And so he said, you know, he said, "Well, what if it, you know, takes away my creativity? What if it um what if it kills me 10 years earlier? There's some negative effect we don't know about." And I just said, "I would rather live a 20 year shorter life feeling this way than feel what I felt before." And so when I talk to somebody who has um you know untreated ADHD or anxiety or whatever it is, I just feel so sad because I remember that exact feeling and the looping and the stress that I would create for myself in my own mind. And um it's sad to realize like no, it's just biology for me at least, you know. >> Yeah. Huh. See, I I thought maybe I somewhere on the spectrum, which I think we all are somewhere on >> You're way too social to be to be on the certainly on the autism spectrum, but maybe in the ADHD spectrum, for sure. >> Yeah. Maybe cuz I have a hard time saying no. And I just like to dig into something, >> whatever you want to dig into. >> Yeah. Dig it 90% of the way and then stop. >> 100%. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't finish things. I I start things I'm really good at starting and then I lose interest. And so if there's not an amazing detail- oriented person to take over, >> it's just wasted energy. >> Do you know about the There's an operating system called EOS. >> I use it. I just did a US I just did a EOS vision day yesterday. One of my companies. I love I love EOS. I was so into it and at at the time I had my whole team on it and I had three locations operating with it and it was the best days in my business career was using it and then uh yeah >> did you lose your nonADHD person who managed the system for you? Yeah. >> Yeah. There you go. This is the problem. If I didn't have that I would be screwed and I couldn't do anything. Uh-huh. >> I I realized like you >> in fact I I lost like all my team cuz it was at at co >> everyone left and things just didn't come back for me. >> Yeah. >> Um and not having a team and having to think outside all the boxes and I didn't have a person there to keep me on track. I guess going through the chaos that we all went through. I didn't have that team that I had just become really dependent on and loved having them to help feed me and direct the changes I know needed to happen. >> I feel like having ADHD is like um having a peg leg, right? So, you know, you spent your whole life being like everyone's yelling at you, why can't you climb the stairs faster? Why can't you keep up? And you're going, I don't know. There's something I can't My brain just doesn't work that way. But at the same time, if you strap on one of those crazy like razor blade, you know, those Olympic ones, you can sprint faster than anyone else, any normal runner, right? So, it's a gift, but it's also hard to do a lot of basic things like climb the stairs or keep EOS on track or whatever it is. And for me, like, you know, I'm 20 20 plus years into my business implementing EOS and accepting that there's the whole concept of the visionary and the integrator. So, you know, you have all the ideas. It's their job actually to execute it and to keep the system working. >> Yeah. Not not your job at all because you're really terrible at it. You don't know. You don't like it. >> I have that in a few of my businesses and when it happens is magic. >> But finding that person is hard. >> Yeah. I guess you can you you just have to pay for that person, right? You have to find them because there are integrators out there for hire. But >> I don't know. I don't know if it's even like I think it's just a certain archetype of person and I think like I've started using personality testing a little bit more to figure out >> Do you use the Kobe? >> I do. I actually built my own. So I used AI and I made my own test called deep personality. >> Oh, I took that test. >> Yeah, it's crazy, right? >> But but I I didn't know how to pay for the I'll give you one. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'll give you one. >> So So just back back my answers in a better language. >> Oh, yeah. No, the you got to get the big report. But but anyway, that um I've started doing that when I work with someone because I can see their conscientiousness and then I can put both of our profiles into chat GPT and I can say would how would we work together and where would it fall down? And what I realized is like >> oh wow >> I love ADHD people, right? It's fun to talk to an ADHD person. you have a certain type of conversation where you jump like this, where you jump all over the place, >> but what you really want is the person who's like, you know, their hair is always the same length and they're always on time and they're diligent and conscientious and you got to find that person. I don't think they're expensive. It's just a certain type of brain, >> right? Huh. Yeah. I I have a I have a real heart for EOS. I I I believed in it thoroughly. I went through a lot of training and I I just absolutely could I I there was a point where I was like I can't do my business without it. And it turns out it's much harder to do it without it once you've had it >> than to have never had it at all. Cuz I can see >> all the points where I was like, "Oh, I should be doing this. I should be having my level 10 meeting. I should be going to my employees every six months and doing a checkup. I should be doing all these things that I know. >> But you can't. >> I can't. >> You can't I can't I can't either. Like I >> I don't like doing them. >> Yeah. >> I I love the fact that I need to do them. I hate the fact that I have to do them. >> Yes. I I just have realized like like I remember I was doing the EOS onboarding and you know they do that thing where they say who's going to be responsible for these various things and I kept putting up my hand and the guy would go no Andrew you're not allowed you're the visionary and I was kind of offended right but then I realized like no I can't deliver like if you tell me I have to do something in a week and it's a piece of paperwork I won't do it I just won't do it or I'll do it last minute I'll do it a really bad job of it and so I've just tried to create structures where I can't the hard part in your business is if you have people that are working for you part-time or for a year and then you've got to go train them and go through that whole process. It's like such a challenge, right? >> Yeah. I'm I'm not sure the hospitality industry is the right place for EOS, but I had at the time had four or five stores and it really worked for that cuz there were departments in every one of them. So that that worked. It was a real structure. But just having a coffee shop or a restaurant, I don't see how EOS can the be the be all and end all of that business. It comes from the character and the quality. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I was for sure the the visionary and I kept dreaming to myself that I wanted to be the implement and and I just I couldn't get past the fact that I couldn't be that person. I wanted to be able to be that person but at the same time I just it's not my forte. >> I hated myself for it because I would read management books. I'd read all these books and go okay this is finally the system. this is why I'm a bad leader. I need to do this. And it's like, no, no, no. I'm just I have a disability, right? A gift and a disability. I can't do it. And I just need to accept that's not possible. But try explaining that to your wife when she asks you to take out the garbage or organize the room or do whatever it is, right? That's it's a really hard thing even because it's this invisible disability, you know? >> It just seems like you're lazy or chaotic. >> Yeah. I kind of never really thought that I was on any spectrum really to be honest, but having this conversation kind of makes me question that just a little teeny tiny bit. Maybe maybe 2% on the spectrum. >> Knowing Yeah. 2%. Yeah. Exactly. Knowing you, I would say maybe. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Although I am really calm when I'm not at work. Like really calm. I'm a real chill guy. But uh at work there's always so many things going on in the background, right? That it's hard to be chill. >> Well, it's hard. It's like um when you have ADHD, even like hanging a photo. So, I'll be hanging a photo and I'm trying to get it aligned and my kid is talking to me and then my partner comes over and says, "What are you doing?" That is enough for me to just feel like the world is ending. And it's there's something about so when you're in a chaotic environment like a cafe and you're overwhelmed and then you're also trying to think about the business and look at the POSOS and someone's got an issue over here. It's just so overwhelming. And I really like I admire people that are able to just be an air traffic controller and deal with it. But like it is >> it's I I really I really highly would recommend trying the medication um at least once. >> Well, you could have pill later on. >> Sure. I didn't say that. But yeah, but yeah, it's like it's the sort of thing where you take it once and you'll just be like, "Oh, this works." Or you won't. It's like imagine if like imagine if I said to you, um, >> hey, you know, Sam, I think you'd really love having a glass of wine. And you're like, >> I don't know. I don't know if I want to drink my whole life. I don't know if I want to drink every day all day. And it's like, no, no, no. You can try it once. It's not like going on some crazy medication. You can try it for four hours and be like, "This works or it doesn't." Hm. You've been down a lot of medical roads and I know you do deep dives on multiple different things. What's what's the most interesting thing that you've kind of been researching in the last year that's got you really excited about health? >> Well, I um I didn't really care about health. I took it for granted. And then I feel like like everyone in your like late 20s or 30s, you have some sort of health crisis or whatever and it makes you pay attention. For me, I started, you know, I'm a skinny guy and I started getting acid reflux, like nightmarish acid reflux. Um, that just got worse and worse as I got older. And I'd go to the doctor and they'd say, "Here, you know, here's a prescription for the proton pump inhibitor, all these different things. Didn't do anything. You know, you try avoiding spicy food, whatever." and nothing worked. And I said to my doctor one time, um, "Hey, you know, I have this weird thing. I can't burp. So after I eat a meal or if I drink like a fizzy beverage, I can't burp. I feel pressure. It's really unpleasant." And he said, "Oh, you're burping. You just don't know. That's not a thing." And so I figured it wasn't a thing. And then years went by and I'd always get this feeling of just pressure and then acid reflux. And finally I, you know, I just started taking matters into my own hands and searching the internet and writing notes and stuff and I found this weird Reddit community called No Burp. >> No. >> And it's people that can't burp, right? So it's like this like there's thousands of people on here and it turned out there was this one doctor in Chicago who had figured out this is a condition. It's basically your cryoparangal muscle right here is too tight on some people and so you just physically can't burp. And so what he started doing is going down your throat endoscopically in a hospital, injecting Botox to loosen that muscle, and then it allows you to burp. >> What can't Botox do? >> Crazy, right? >> Amazing. >> And so I went to Chicago, I got the Botox, I started being able to burp, no acid reflux. And so that got me on this health journey of like really kind of going like, okay, I got to take matters into my own hands and learn all this stuff. And I tried a million things before then. I think I knocked the cable. Yeah. >> Um and uh so I fixed that and then really it's just been like figuring out how do people die sad miserable deaths and how do you avoid that? So you know how do you avoid getting heart disease? Okay, >> which is the most common way to die and how do you avoid having some horrible cancer that could have been treated if it was caught early and you didn't. So the two things I would say are treating your high cholesterol if you have it with a statin or similar there's lots of drugs very simple low side effect drugs people demonize them but it's the most common way to die very um very easy solution and other thing um that I do is I do a full body MRI once a year >> in Vancouver >> okay >> and the idea there is just try and catch if you have like thyroid cancer or I have a friend who he did a full body MRI. They found a tumor on his um on one of his um thyroid glands and it was so early that they were able to just cut it out. If it had progressed, he would have died for sure. So, just stuff like that. I like I pay attention. >> Yeah. >> Um >> do you you get get hardcore about these things? Like do you get concerned to the point where you you act and dive deep? Is it is that out of a concern for yourself or is it just an interest? >> Well, it started paranoia. It started as anxiety. >> So, for me, it was like um >> okay, my life is good. I've got great kids and great friends and good business. Well, what could go wrong now? Like, I've got all this anxiety. I got to put it somewhere. And so, I'd go, "Oh my god, I could die. I could have cancer. I could whatever that was." And so once I started treating the ADHD, the anxiety went away. So now it's really calm. I know all the stuff from when I was paranoid. Okay. >> But now I don't really worry about it too much. >> Nice. >> I also did a big dose of ketamine a few times. >> Oh yeah. How was that for you? >> Really amazing. Um I went to a place called Savvy Mind in Victoria here. They do like clinical ketamine treatment and uh >> you know there's something about doing ketamine you do big dose so you basically experience like full ego death disillusionment and there's something about doing that that really set puts you in your place and makes you realize like none of this matters and you know if you die you die and I know that sounds weird but it's like it's a we it's kind of like after I did that I feel like I'm much less fearful about health and death and all that kind of stuff Is ketamine a a hallucinagen? >> It is. >> It's a a disassociative uh anesthetic, but at the right dose, you have crazy hallucinations. >> Okay. >> So, it's like mushrooms. It's like I've done like highdosese mushrooms. It's similar to that. And the way I'd put it is um mushrooms feel as like you're in a maze and if you go one way it's like flowers and roses and the other way there's like a clown with a chainsaw, >> you know? And I feel like um ketamine didn't feel like that. It's like a crazy trip, but it didn't feel as scary. >> Since we're talking about drugs, have you ever done um DMT? >> No. Uh >> is it something that you would entertain? I remember reading that Michael Plan book that came out a couple years ago and you described it as like you take a hit of the um the pipe and then it feels like you're blasting off on a rocket and you're just holding on with your hands. And that description really stuck with me and I went that sounds really scary. >> Um >> ketamine what I like about ketamine is it's it's clinical. So you know you got a a nurse sitting with you administering it. It's incredibly safe and it only lasts an hour. And so you have this profound crazy experience on, you know, Fisgard Street lying on a brown couch for an hour and then you emerge and you're like, "Oh my god, that's crazy." Um, whereas like, you know, do mushrooms, acid, some of these other things. It's unpredictable. It's long. DMT I know is short, but apparently it's like you live a life within it or something crazy. Have you >> It can I've never done it. I've I've come really close and I still want to do it. I just, you know, the time and and and the place, but I would definitely do it for the experience of trying to tap into something that feels like a lot of other people have experienced the same sort of things. Like people on GMT say that they see the same two or three things all the time. And I don't know if you know the the GMT laser. Um, experiments they're doing. They'll take a laser and they'll point it at an object and it'll be a broad beam and you take GMT and you look into the beam and you see like gears turning or you see like like um it's being described as like Star Wars characters like not quite the Japanese character fonts but that sort of thing >> like the Matrix. >> Yeah. Yeah. And everyone sees the same things, >> which to me is really intriguing why everyone sees the same thing when >> it's coming out of your mind evidently. But >> yeah, >> it feels it feels like it feels like um being an animal or something. You're like you're on this totally different plane of existence. It's like what would it be like to be a bat or whatever and you're just tripping and you have this completely different perception of the world. Um, I find it like bizarre and crazy and I'm really glad I did it. But I also am always I feel like these are like weapons of mass brain destruction where yes, they're like safe. Like you can do a lot of mushrooms and still be fine. But for myself, like I've had really bad experiences doing highdosese mushrooms and I won't do it again, right? >> And so when I'm happy, like right now I'm like feeling pretty happy in my life. I'm worried about using the nuclear bomb on my brain because I don't want to shift my perception of things in a negative way. And I think they create neuroplasticity. And so it's like if you do if you do ketamine then you have a horrible week like something bad happens. >> It sticks with you. It's neuroplasticity but in the wrong way. So I'm always nervous about doing it too much. >> So yeah, it might be a good thing to do when you think you need it. But if you're in a good place, why why mess with it? >> But I've I've got friends who um you know, I've got one friend who he did I gain in Mexico and he said it was like completely transformative. Uh you know, his wife suffered from lifelong anxiety and now she's like free of it. So which is like I don't know that works. It's amazing. I've got another friend who did Iwasa. He was like drinking constantly, stopped drinking completely. So there's a lot of amazing transformation that occurs because of these drugs. I think they're awesome, but they are you need to be thoughtful about using them. >> Yeah. You can't just reach out to them as a quick fix either. You you've got to be the right kind of person, I think, to be okay with that to begin with. >> What I struggle with now is like I don't really drink anymore. Just with kids, it's hard to stay out late and the cost of it, the hangover. >> But I don't have a good recreational drug. I haven't found that. >> No. >> No. I mean, what do you do you just drink? Uh yeah, I like beer and I definitely love my marijuana. >> Um I've always been like that. I I I I don't overly drink though. I If I had to choose anything, it'd be pot. I I would >> see I love alcohol. Um and I but I was like basically an alcoholic from like 19 to 28. And then I pretty much stop. So I'll drink once or twice a year. Like I had a birthday party. >> I want to dance. I want to stay up late. I'll drink. But the cost like for two days I was like more anxious, my stomach's off, I don't feel good. So yeah, I um someone needs to invent a better version of alcohol. >> Ah, there there's something for you to think about. >> I I did actually. There's there's a guy in England who claims to have developed a um a molecule that is has all the benefits of alcohol without all the downside. So, it's like you take this >> I think you can drink it and then within two hours you're sober again, but it's like you no hangover. It's called Alcarel, but he claims he I actually talked to the guy. He claims that um big alcohol won't let him go there, which I'm always suspicious of when someone says like, "I've got a miracle, but you know, some evil force is preventing me from doing it, but give me a bunch of money to do it." But but it it is really cool if that actually works. Or he's made like a a herbal version of it called >> Centia, which is it has like vitamin B6 and a bunch of herbs and stuff and it's it's nice, but it's not alcohol. >> No. And Okay. So maybe there's a possibility for non-alcoholic alcohol coming. I mean, I guess there's all kinds of alcohol ethers and stuff like that. They're they're bound to find one combination that works >> for humans. >> But if it existed, like if alcohol came out now, they would never ex they would never allow it, you know? >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Um I I would be remiss if I didn't ask you to combine your thoughts on AI and and the hospitality industry. I know we talked a bit about the front end and the experience for the customer, but I'm thinking more along lines of the owners and operators and how AI could be used either currently or very soon to help help make things go smoother for the operators. Um, I know you own a lot of restaurants. You work with Mike Bole who is a total systems guy. Is he working on AI type systems where the backsend? >> I mean I think if you look at like um the kind of systems a lot of good operators have implemented. It's like you call the restaurant and then there's an answering machine and it says press one to make a reservation and it tells you to go on Open Table or what hours and it says here's the app. But what Mike's been experimenting with is um like having an actual voice AI pick up. And I I've had some really good experiences with other restaurants where you call and it's like a very professional voice and you said like a reservation for two at this time and it says let me check for you. So and it and it actually hooks into Open Table and stuff. So that is um that's a really simple example of something that I think is incredibly useful and saves a lot of manh hours. I think over time like there's an opportunity to do automatic food costing to automatically adjust pricing to um figure out marketing plans. I mean you could go into some of these new AI tools and basically just say I own a cafe. I want you to interview me for the next 20 minutes. Just ask me a series of questions and then tell me what access you want in terms of my software. So if you use Square, you could be like, "Here's my Square. Here's my website traffic. Here's my, you know, here's my financials from the last five years. What opportunities do you see?" And it could actually coach you through not only telling you what to do, but actually doing the thing. So for example, it could say, "Hey, in Stripe, I noticed that you are pricing at cost on this item. The price should be higher. Do you want me to monitor that every week and I can adjust it automatically for you? Like that is what's coming. And so if you think about your EOS problem, like all the administrative burden of a business, all the things that previously would have been done by some anal retentive admin, >> yeah, >> that can all be done by AI. And I think that hopefully it will free you up to do the joyful parts of your business and not the annoying parts like the accounting, the pricing, the, you know, running the EOS. And I'm I'm seeing that like I'm I'm like, you know, the nerd who's like at the cutting edge. And so we're doing all that in our business right now. Um so here's an example. So >> I mentioned that personality test I made, deep personality. >> Yeah. >> That is a business that has no employees. It has digital employees. So if you emailed and you said, "Hey, um I'm having an issue. You know, my report isn't coming up." you'd get an email response saying,"Oh, here, I've fixed that bug." That would be AI. AI is actually gone. They've fixed the bug. Or, "You need a refund. They've handled it. Um, it's running all of our marketing. It manages our Facebook campaigns. It makes ads. >> It is improving the product." And so, what's exciting about that is we go back where we started, right? Remember we were talking about the screenwriter who has the idea and then the execution of it. They wanted it to get here, but there's all this messy in between here and there. >> Yeah. >> I think over time that is gonna close and you're going to be able to say, "I want my website to look like this." And the AI will be able to make it look exactly the way you want and it will only cost you 200 bucks. Whereas it would have cost you 20 grand or something to have it be super professional, >> if not more. >> Totally. So like that that's or even accounting, like how much do you pay for bookkeeping and accounting, >> right? That's all gone. That's all going to be automated soon. >> Soon, but not yet. >> You could now, but it would just be a little early. It'd be like you're trying to use an You want to use an iPhone, but all you have is a Blackberry. That's where we're at right now is there's the Blackberry >> or you want to use AI, but all you got is Siri. >> Yeah. Yeah. Literally. Literally. We're we're we're like better than Siri now, but we're not quite at the like magical her, you know? We're not we're not there yet. >> Okay. >> But it's getting there. And the tools are astounding and they're like they're going there's going to be an iPhone moment really soon where it's going to seem weird, but you're going to just talk to your phone and it'll be like some woman's voice like her and it'll just know everything about you and help you with your business. And I think like that moment is coming in the next one to two years probably. And I think when it's a really good time to be an entrepreneur with ADHD. Yay. On that note, I mean, you've been most generous with your time. We're 45 minutes over our scheduled time frame. So, um, I'd like to just tell you how much I appreciate you being here and thanks thanks for talking to me about old times and new times and hard times. It's it's always interesting to talk to you, Andrew. >> Of course, man. Well, I really appreciate you inviting me here and it's so fun to see you. I remember we hadn't seen each other for like 20 years and we had coffee and it was like all the great memories came flooding back and I want to thank you for giving me my weird start, right? It's like who would have thought that >> journalism school dropout who's working in a cafe would somehow end up buying businesses. I I but it wouldn't have happened if I wasn't working at 2% Jazz and Jeff and Chris didn't come in and start showing off how much money they were making making websites, right? That's that's it, you know. So, thank you for giving me my start and uh thank you for doing what you do in Victoria because it's it's really impressive. You know, 30 years is nothing to, you know, nothing to feel bad about, you know, when you're like uh it's still hard. It's like it it is still hard for everyone, you know, but like that, you know, statistically you've beat the odds. You're the 1%, you know. >> Certainly. And I I I don't feel too bad. It's it's provide me a great life. Bought my house, raised my kids. It's all thanks to my customers. I mean, and and the work that we do to create that special. >> I really every entrepreneur every entrepreneur is just like miserable and stressed and feels like their business is And then you talk to other entrepreneurs and you realize, oh no, we're all just And >> yeah, we're all just going through the same things. Yeah, it's a hard life we choose. But it's a good life. >> Yeah. >> Better than working for someone, >> right? Evidently >> evidently. >> Well, yeah. We just imagine you and me as employees, right? It's like very difficult. >> Yeah. No, I uh Well, I I can imagine you as an employee, but you were much >> I was a terrible employee and I for five months or whatever, but >> it was the best time. So, um, Andrew, is there anything coming up for you that you wanted to mention or >> I'm trying to think. So, Victoria Wise, um, we're doing this thing, me and my friend Josh Franklin, um, who he he had a club loading. Do you know about that? It's like No, >> it's all where all the the cool place the kids went. It was like a nightclub and event series and now he does one called Rush. But, um, we've teamed up to do the culture fund. You have I told you about this. So basically we're saying anyone who wants to do something cool in Victoria needs funding reach out. So that could be um you know art battles. So the art battles people needed a couple thousand to get the space and they needed money for a deposit. We'll provide that. Uh we do it as a loan but it's like a very fair cheap loan. >> Um and we're just loaning money to people who want to do cool things in Victoria. Um so if anyone wants to check that out just Google the Culture Fund Victoria and email us. Um, and if anyone wants to start a business in Victoria and they need funding, like I'm all yours. Like, I just want more young people to do cool stuff. >> Wow. On that generous note, um, I wish you all the best in the rest of your day. >> Thanks, man. You, too. >> Yeah. Well, I can't wait to get off this mic and and have a couple other words with you for sure. Um, on behalf of Kayn and myself, um, you be real nice to everyone. >> Thanks, man. Bread and Butter Collective membership includes the following local businesses. 2% Jazz, Bunny's Kitchen, Buzz Coffee House, Eagleite, Big Wheelburg, Blue Mountain Solutions, Bodega Tapis Wine Bar, Eva Schnitzel House, Farmsgate Foods and Catering, Victoria Chocolateing Company, Drum Roster Coffee, Habit Coffee, Fu Asian Street Food, The Culinary Arts Program at Kimosen, Cafe Fantastico, Fall Epi, Harold Street Brewworks, Ahappy, House of Bang Mik Ramena Jetty Marie's Cracker Company La Pasta Laroo Petisserie Mocha House Pard and Parcel Poco Ainto Bar Pizzeria Primistrada Keing Pizza Roast Table 9 Consulting Sherwood Cafe and Bar Suites by Selena the Collective Wine Bar and Kitchen, the Drake Tap Bar, The Nimble Bar Company, Ruth and Dean, the Full Beast, The Weinery, Spoons Diner, Truffles Inspired Catering, and Zambre. To hear more from the breadandbut collective, go to checknews.ca/mpodcasts on Czech Plus or find us on your favorite podcasting platform.