ladies and gentlemen please join me in welcoming our next presenter major chip you that's good man all right is this where I stand so thank you guys so much it's been so great to be here we think that last couple of days and I know what you're probably thinking I can almost read it in your faces you're thinking that chip Youth is a lot better-looking and a boss maybe maybe it's just the lighting maybe not it's good to be here so we've been I've been thinking about like what am I gonna say to you guys right because you I mean you gotta admit after you set through these speakers I mean who wants to follow them you know I mean I've gone through this these emotions man it's rollercoaster you know I mean I had I was laughing so hard it was hurting and then my allergy started acting up during that during that video from the army there started take my nasal spray but so I thought maybe I'd share with you guys some things that I've been thinking about lately and kind of update you a little bit on my progress and then how I've been implementing some of what arbiters been so gracious to teach me in my new role and so speaking of my new role you know as they've mentioned I'm no longer a sergeant with the SWAT team I promoted a couple of times since since the last time I got to spend time with you guys and people ask me often you know what's that about I mean you kicked doors for 22 and a half years it's a great job the people were the best part of that and the experiences we had it was almost like it's a second family you don't want to leave right and so why leave and honestly it's I got as I often do I my mouth got me in trouble I I was speaking actually working with a group on the path of arbiter if I remember right as a corporate group and it was right after Ferguson Missouri happened if you guys remember Ferguson yeah but he probably do I know we do but right after that happened I was out speaking with a group and we were doing some some talks around outward mindset stuff and and so we're wrapping up at the end of the day and someone asks me we're kind of just talking shop and someone asked me chip what do you think the biggest problem facing law enforcement is today and I assume they probably thought I was going to say something like well it's the media bias or it's the unrealistic expectations that people have of us as law enforcement officers I mean there's a whole bunch of things that I had heard that would that would define the problem in in contemporary law enforcement but really and this was just very extemporaneous the first thing I thought of to say I said this I said the biggest problem facing law enforcement in my estimation is a leadership vacuum I said we'd have a culture of leaders that are treating people officers in a way that is antithetical to the way we want them to interact with the community they go to work and they feel put upon and objectified and taken for granted and then we ask them to go out into the field in these really complex situations and be their best and represent us and put on this great face to meet the public and it's really not it's really not a fair expectation and I saw I said that right and so on the plane I'm flying home and I'm thinking well okay I can't just say that and not try to be helpful I can't try to do something about that the only way I can do that is by promoting and so I started working at doing just that and I was very fortunate to be able to promote as fast as I have to to the level I'm at and it's it's been an interesting journey and and my the opportunities I have now with this at this level or was just so different so I'll catch you up so I had a new chief on board back in September August end of August versus September that chief transferred me out of the Special Operations Division so at that time I was the major in charge of all Special Operations so I basically served every rank all the way through from point point man on the entry team unit trainer all the way up to the senior commander well that chief transferred me to a patrol division now I'd never done much in patrol in my career so this has been a great opportunity for me the last six months to actually work with a variety of officers that I never would have had an opportunity to work with before you know I mean everybody in my SWAT teams were twice they've gone through another sets two sets of interviews and physical you know testing and all this stuff right they were really motivated highly motivated people so managing them it was like you had to pull back the reins a little bit but you certainly did have to kick him in the butt I mean they were they were good to go right they were aggressive they were moving forward it was just a different type of management right so this assignment gives me an opportunity to work from people that range from you know very they've been on a long time they're very cynical they're very skeptical about anything management does people that are very strong in the labor force you know they're there with what you guys would call a union in the private sector it's a actually a we have a meet and confer agreement on our department so they so the federal eternal order of police is more like it's a labor organization but they don't really strike because you can imagine if the police could strike that would be horrible so you know there's people that are deeply rooted in that right it's us versus them and then there's there's motivated people and then anywhere in between so I have an opportunity now to work with so many awesome people and I'm doing more mentoring now than I ever could have done there so I on board as a division commander you're looking at about 85 square miles 90,000 people I've got about a hundred employees within my chain of command and so I'm like the police chief of this this division and so it's been great and some of the things that we've been talking about in the leadership teams relative the outward mindset is how do we develop our leadership so that we're providing the best leadership and guidance for the troops that are out there doing a really challenging job and so when I transferred it was shortly after that that I lost my operations sergeant and got a new operation sergeant I lost my administrative assistant and got a new operation or administrative assistant I lost three of my commanders my captain's and got new commanders so this is an entire new team right what a great opportunity so we sit down and we start having meetings and talking about talking about our mindset but I'm not I'm very hesitant to expose them to the frameworks and that type of stuff right off the bat what I want them to do initially this is my mindset as I want them to experience what it's like to work in an outward mindset environment I want them experienced from the top down I want to show them this is what it this feels like so that's kind of what I'm thinking about so we sit down in our meeting and we say okay let's start talking about these things right what does that look like and I share a little bit of my philosophy and I let them start watching how I interact with people and so one of the things we talk about the leadership team I said well and if you think about what we what what they showed up on the slide when Mitch and Jim we're talking about the five steps right the assessment the training implementation reassessment sustainment okay so it's using that same format it's like let's assess what it what are our primary the primary thing that we're here for why are we here as a group what do we assembled for what's our mission right what are we trying to accomplish and let's just really answer that you would think and you might think you might take for granted that they knew that right but honestly not everybody really knows that sometimes there's not a lot of clear a lot of clarity around exactly what our mission is especially in this type of work right so like a lot of people have they have two jobs at work they have the primary job which is ostensibly we're gonna go we're gonna move toward the mission right we're gonna accomplish the mission but they have what Daniel Coyle I think calls the second secret job and that job is protecting the reputation right so first job I'm focused on the mission trying to get the exempt this secret second job that that a lot of us have especially with the other mindset on board is I'm protecting my reputation well one of the deep lessons that I learned from arbiter is you can't focus on the mission and yourself at the same time you just don't have that bandwidth you know and so we started talking about this around the table we thought okay how do we create a team that can focus on the mission and so I encountered in my commanders right and I've encountered commanders I've mentored across the department that they range in opinions about how to approach leadership we don't do a good job of developing a leadership pipeline like the Army does let's say see the Army's crazy in the way they do things they actually train their leaders before they put them in leadership positions I don't know about you but a lot of people I've worked with a lot of organizations are is included if you're really good at your current job they make you a boss easy right I mean I don't know but it strikes me that being a leader is different than being someone that's good at the technical aspects of your job right it's all about people so I've encountered these leaders I've been mentoring some of them think well they're very people-oriented and how that looks to them is well it means that they are interested very interested in how their people perceive them and so their primary focus becomes kind of running this popularity contest and so they do things that actually undermine the mission they come into roll call briefings and they might say something like you know you know senior staff had this idea and I and I just think it sucks but we're gonna do it anyway because you know after all they're the bosses you can imagine that's right yeah of course the troops love it right especially the cynical ones they're like yeah yes this is commander gets us right he's on our side and so what ends up happening is that for these commanders the standards slip right people aren't performing up to standard you start seeing it you know this this chaos will leak into those teams and little little ways like maybe it's somebody coming in late to work and then someone not wearing the proper equipment and then next thing you know it just escalates from there from rudeness - you know discourtesy and and and even in some cases severe misconduct like stuff that you know I'm sure you've heard about while rare still happens and so so got those commanders right and then I've got the other commanders who are so process oriented that they can't see the people they're like well I've got the policy books I know what people should be doing so like you know this is easy all I have to do is take the policy book and enforce everything in here and they don't they're not alive to the personhood of the people that are in those processes and so mentoring those people looks really different doesn't it you know for the former it's like okay look here's the deal we are assembled here for a purpose and there are many things many characterizations of leaders you know you've heard servant leadership you've heard autocratic democratic participatory all these different labels and ways to characterize leaders but as a associate of mine Jocko Willing said of all those characterization there's really only two that matter and that's rather they're ineffective or effective and I found to be very interesting right cuz him and I actually dialogue about that when I'd read that in some he'd written and we'd I loved about that I thought at the end of the day we're assembled for a reason right this is like a club like we're not just coming to work just to just to hang out together and enjoy each other's company like we really have something we need to get done right so so it turns out what I tell those supervisors is the mission is not primary I'm sorry the people are not primary the mission is primary that's a hard thing to accept right well you're saying people aren't important no people are extremely important they're a close second to the mission but at the end of the day I might ask you to do something that you don't agree with I might ask you to do something that you find objectionable that's why we compensate you that's why we're not letting you do this for free the mission first if we don't accomplish the mission then we don't have a purpose for being here together so everything that we do on our leadership team the the proper metric is does this serve the mission does this serve the mission and for the people on the other side of the spectrum you know the commander's that our sole process or if they can't see the people we start having conversations around look yes I agree the mission its most important but how do we get that done we get that done by building trusting relationships when people start trusting us we they start know they know that we have their back we're providing top cover we're interpreting things for them in a way that makes sense at the tactical level they're gonna take care of the mission they're gonna execute if they feel they're supported and they're allowed to unleash their talents so we have to work at a totally different way with those with those commanders to kind of get them to understand that and we find this balance as equilibrium right and so it looks a lot like an art team it's the mission it's our people and then it's us and those are our that's a list of our priorities for our team and we make all our decisions that way so I implement a weekly team meetings leadership team meetings we all sit around a table in a circle if you're not in town you conference in unless you're on a vacation with your family so like I conference in yesterday even though you guys are my family I just didn't feel right you know not conferencing then so I did and we have talks around what's happening and I modeled this off of what our venture does and I don't know if I can say this or not but it's already happening so I'm saying it but I've observed this at Arbonne jury they do these stand up meetings and it's a great I mean it's so awesome I've gone for Stan I've actually been there for a couple of them and basically that the theme of the meeting is so cool it's like you they go around the table and it's like okay well here's what I have going on this week and then the question becomes from the group what can we do to help you with that and so that's what I modeled these leadership to meetings around so let's say captain Todd mark starts he's one of my T's my day shift cath and he might start with this are the things I have going and everybody on the team that offers support and help what can we do Todd to make it easier for you to do that to accomplish that we're in the table doing this and it leads to some great deep discussions and so the we orient ourselves in that way that we're being supportive and then we have conversations around the ways we're supporting the people in the mission and we're always trying to come up with new ways to show them how much we support them and then so I end up doing these one-on-one meetings with my commanders where we start talking about developing leadership with an outward mindset and practices we can use in doing this so one of the first things in my estimation that that leaders are charged with is creating a safe environment employees have to feel safe in order to contribute like we all want them to contribute we say you know you all have individual talents and there's things you bring in to the table that are unique and we want you to you know we want your input but if they don't feel safe they won't do it you don't believe me you know if you you on board into a new leadership position and you go into a meeting and you ask for critical feedback if you're not getting any it's all because they don't trust you they don't trust you they have to trust you first you have to create safety and one of the ways that I asked my leadership team to do that is by creating this vulnerability and you've heard a couple speakers talk about this this idea that as leaders were vulnerable in very appropriate ways and I picked this up back with the SWAT team I got it from I think the Blue Angels have you guys seen the Blue Angels fly that's hairy work I mean there's certainly some danger involved in that and one of the things I learned about the Blue Angels was that when they do an after-action review the leader reports out first on his or her mistakes this is what I did wrong on the mission is where I need to improve and what that does is that vulnerability by displaying that vulnerability they create what you might call a vulnerability loop where people feel comfortable coming back and then expressing the things they might have done wrong the things they can improve on so you're actually inviting this right so that contagion effect that you've heard people speak about you're inviting this vulnerability back this transparency back and in order to do anything effective toward the mission you have to tell the truth yet people we have to confront reality and they have to know what the truth is and so we have to be able to do that and you're actually building safety by doing that we took it one step further now I'm not this is not for the faint of heart so one thing I have to tell you guys is that the SWAT culture it's a little different so you know you it's a little different the the the type of job brings us closer in ways probably that that a lot of people don't experience so it's not for the faint of heart but we took it a step further with this vulnerability and we created it like a failure board yeah we called it actually that they named it - come on man board does anybody watch the ESPN you're seeing that come on man yeah when somebody drops the ball figuratively or literally and so he created this this board this come on man board and if I screwed up there was gonna be some that was gonna be memorialized on this board like so everybody got to see it and talk about it and we kind of you know we accepted it we owned it and then we were able to kind of laugh at ourselves a little bit about it and then at the end of the year we would go so far as to vote on the biggest mistake of the year and that person would get an award you know so you got the you know the come on man award and I know it sounds crazy but I'm telling you it worked out so well for us in our culture it just became so normative and AAA ours and after-action reviews for people just to go a screw this up here's what I did wrong you know even when other people didn't know like you could have hidden it because they understood that in order to improve you had to be transparent about that so I bet that idea and our team - we've done a failure board but when we sat down and talked to our troops we we are honest and open about the things that we need to be doing better and so the next thing I'm doing now right now is we get back as I'm creating a peer feedback group I don't know what to call it yet if you guys can think of a cool name for this let me know put your mind to it but but this was my thought I was actually I woke up one morning thinking about this we're going to get members from each watch line level members of the organization from each watch and we're going to pull to for a watch and once a month they're gonna meet directly with me so they're not going through the chain of command it's just we're gonna sit down I want to meet with them and I'm gonna ask them questions things like what are we doing as a division that you think we should stop doing immediately what are we doing as a division that makes your work harder what are we doing as a division you really agree with that you really like what do you think we need more of what do you think we need less of you know just asking the questions that we need to ask from an outward mindset perspective that can lead us to one build trust with with those team members and to get better but that's what it's about you know I marvel at the fact that we totally disregard some of our line leveled employees especially the new people they'd be like well you know chip what what does she know she's brand new well she's new to the job she done did a life like I'm gonna guess this she's probably done some other things before she came here had some other experiences that may be relevant and certainly while she may not have been a police officer she's been a consumer of our services right she's certainly been on that end of it at some point large or small hopefully small so it's that idea we're creating that that type of environment that's what we're after it's all driven toward this idea of safety and so were thinking a lot about that creating transparency and the team has been big for us so what does that look like well we want to be completely open about everything and we want to tell the truth all the time two things I notice out reminds that leaders do well and arbiter doesn't quite capture it this way that's just my observation but two things that I noticed they do very well they see people and they tell the truth they see people they actually see them right they're alive to them and because they're alive to them they're allowed to their limitations they're alive to the areas in which they need support they're alive to the to the particular specialties that they're good at right they know how to employ them they know how to to motivate them and move them in the right direction their life their personalities their life to their to what's important to them as people so that we can tie that to the mission right I mean they see people you really do and they're really good at it and it almost becomes intuitive and they tell the truth they're they're openly honest about everything and they tell people when Richard sure--and was talking about having that meeting where they're actually opening the books up to the employees my mind just started clicking I'm like man you know if what ways can we that we can take this to the next level we just tell them everything you know no cutting out things out of emails before you afford them forward it show them this is what this is the thought process you know by the way we're opening up our leadership team meetings to all employees they can come and watch they can come sit in they can ask questions I want them to see behind the curtain this is what we're doing right this is what we're developing and you know sometimes people say to me well chip there's certain issues we can't tell the truth about we can't be transparent about yes that's true there there are certain legal restrictions on your ability to be transparent about certain things that's okay when you can't tell them openly what's happening tell them why you can't tell them openly what's happening it comes up with us all the time and disciplinary issues we can't discuss a you know an employee's disciplinary history or some disciplinary proceeding with with the general masses we can't do that that's that's a violation of number one is disrespectful number two there are laws in place too that would make that untenable and so what we do is we simply say look people come and ask a question hey you know we heard that Jeremy's you know he's in a lot of trouble man what's going on there look listen we can't discuss Jeremy situation with you Jeremy's free to discuss it we can't discuss it out of respect for him and I respect for the legal restrictions we just can't do it and it would be wrong for us to do that and we wouldn't do that if you were in Jeremy's situation so you know we just can't comment on that but do you understand why we can't and we have a conversation around that I knew we were on the right track well I feel I just feel so strongly about it we've got so much more to so many more iterations of this to go but I knew we were on the right track when I two months into the job was about three months I guess now that I think about the math I had to I had to invite an employee to leave so here I am this new leader I'm coming in and and and one of the first things have to do is terminate somebody and so it turns out you know there's an outward mindset way to do that too right and so so I started working with this employee immediately and I recognized the need to pull this employee off the road to relieve him of his weapon and to relieve him of his law enforcement responsibilities and to put him in an administrative position while we conducted this investigation that conversation was very interesting you know to tell him basically you know we were going to put you at a tactical timeout and we're gonna deal with all these other things that are going on so relieved of his duties and then you know through the process I just Shepherd him through every step of the way and told him what's happening here what's happening there at one point he looks at me and he says major he goes when can I go back to the street I said look I'll call him David I said David I I said I want you to understand that the potential consequences for the things the things that you're facing are serious like potentially career-ending these are really serious consequences we're not at the point where you can talk about you come back to the street we're at the point where we're trying to do what we can to potentially salvage your job this is a big deal man and he just kind of looked back at me like no one had ever said that to him and I go back and look through his employment history and sure enough he'd been transferred around from division to division right ten years and some of the things he'd done you're like oh my like it started out little like we talked about before star enough at what we call the shallow into the misconduct pool of course nobody addressed it right and he started treading on out toward the deep end and now he's at the point where he's doing things that are just you know borderline ridiculous and potentially unsafe well absolutely objectively unsafe and so so while walking through this process and the time comes to have the conversation the the final conversation where I tell him you know what I call him David David gotta be careful I've done this before we actually film one of these one time they could use none of it because everything I said was inappropriate yeah Roger that it's what you get without a trained speaker who is never ever one time in his life made it through a slide deck in any coach at kind of manner you know you're welcome no lessons thanks Jim so so you know I had this conversation I pull it in and I'm like David I said you know and this is so great you this might sound familiar to some of you because I mean you don't think you learn stuff here oh my god and so it's like it's like a laboratory like we're you know I mean I'm living in a laboratory right to practice all of these things that are was orbiter opens my mind to and so I said to said to him I said David I said here's the deal I said you know at North Patrol Division we are committed to achieving these results I talked to him about our mission and service and building trust with every contact I said when you do the type of things you do and the type of things you have done that's led us to this conversation you make it impossible for us to achieve that result therefore I wish you the best as a person but I can no longer employ you here that's something anybody our mindset for leaders yeah yeah it's in there it's a version of that right it's in there a version of a conversation that you have with an employee at them it's so amazing because you're thinking well yeah but I've never really had to say that to anybody oh my god so he looks at me and he says I understand and he and he leaves the office he just leaves office okay you know and so 25 minutes later he comes back if you're like me you're thinking what workplace violence like I'm like I'm squared up and I'm like wrong guy like just wrong guy you know no Dave Moss man we're gonna yeah I mean we're we're gonna get after it right you're gonna get your back dirty son and so you know I'm all ready to make him count ceiling tiles and but it ain't like that he says you know sir and that's what they call me around there sir unlike here so he goes sir you know can I can I talk to you about this and I said absolutely David so we sit down and and he says listen um you know I just want to say to you that I've been in a lot of trouble in my in my career and and I've been through this process a lot of times and because I have never been treated with this much respect no one has ever communicated with the way you and the rest of the of the command staff has and you know honestly I'm just blown away and he wasn't what I've been thinking about you know the last half-hour is that you know maybe I'm to blame for some of this I know it never occurred to me and he says well you know I've just been thinking that maybe the reason that I've done some of the things I've done lately is that my heart's not in the job anymore I just don't feel it man I don't feel it and and I just I don't think I'm cut out for this work anymore and I've been lying to myself for a while and he says look I want to save you the trouble of firing me I just like to resign and he goes I just wanna let you know that this isn't working out so well for me you know I've got six kids I've got a wife I've got you know a lot going on and I don't necessarily don't want to lose a job but he goes I think you're doing the right thing and I want to thank you and I want to just tell you to keep doing what you're doing this is a guy fired right look this is the type of culture we're trying to create and it's all embedded or it's all based the foundation of all this is the our mindset what would it feel like to be an employee losing your job what would it feel like to be a person who by the way in no small part management is responsible for his situation do you agree absolutely we are a matter of fact I'd say we've got a larger part of the responsibility that he does because we have implicitly told him that it's okay to do the things he's been doing because we haven't effectively addressed them the lesson we taught him is the explicit messages follow the rules the implicit message is you can do whatever you want to do and you're gonna take a little bit of grief from us and then we'll move you to another division and who could start over it's like when they call that in golf a mulligan right we don't have any we don't any cool things in kickboxing terms like that Yeah right I mean so we own some of this and so we approach it that way it's like let's approach that we're gonna Shepherd this guy through this process because he deserves our most respect as a person and he may not be a viable employee anymore but he's still a person and guess what he's gonna go on to lion he's gonna go on out there in life and do something and one thing I'm not coming to realize thanks to our batur is we are all networked it's not like I'm like I'm an individual actor like I come here to Utah and I and I just interact with the people I see here and that's it it doesn't end there right not in this environment we are in an environment that is incredibly complex it's characterized by complexity of course the bureaucratic system and I'm in is optimized for complication but we're in a complex environment which means there's so much nonlinear escalation which means what well for you and me it means the same thing it means that every contact you have with every single person is an opportunity to build or destroy a relationship every contact there are no insignificant contacts from the people who are so kind as to bus our tables and clean up after our lunch - Jim Farrell - Mitch Warner - Ethan Dave Moss every contact we have with every person is an opportunity to build a destroy relationship and they're not responding to what we're saying they're responding to who we are right and how they feel seen by us and that's the key now imagine that in law enforcement we're taking that out to the next level to push it out to the street it's like wow we get to contact people from all strata of society from the richest to the poorest we contact people in situations that most of you in the room couldn't even imagine and we contact people that that maybe never meet the police outside the context of a traffic stop and anywhere in between we've got an ability or an opportunity to build trust and we leverage that trust that relational capital to get our jobs done see we don't make a profit you know we don't have profit margins in law enforcement we're about public service we we spend your money we don't make you any money you guys have profit margins most of you most of you have those things certainly in our military partners but most of you have those things but you also need relational capital to get to make those to meet those metrics you have to have it every opportunity every contact you have is an opportunity to build that type of trust that relational capital in your organization that's what you will leverage to meet your metrics that's what you will leverage at the end of the day and it's a very very powerful lesson for us to learn as a leadership team so while we're mindset leaders have to create transparency we have to tell the truth we have to really be authentic in the way that we see people it's not something you can fake right now we're going through a promotional process it's that time of year when people are vying for promotion and a lot of people only start thinking about promotion like when the when the announcement comes out like prep for the test oh that sounds like a good idea I think I'll do that that's problematic for a lot of reasons of course now I'm getting inundated with with opportunities to mentor people but some of its like last-minute like hey you know can you set aside a couple hours to talk to me about how I get promoted Wow you know and I can't do much with that like you know I can't do much with that because you know like I know there's an authenticity there that has to be built over time right I do what I can the best I can offer them is based on a philosophy that I learned a long time ago called the via negativa and basically translates into the negative life and so well the story goes that the Pope asked Michelangelo how did you create the Statue of David to win to which david replied simple or which Michelangelo it's simple I just removed everything that wasn't David right so what was left was David right what so it's like addition by subtraction and so how it works for us would be you come to me and you say chip how do I get promoted and I would say wow I don't know if there's so many things I have to fall into place there right there's a lot happening there you know there's opportunities there's the vacancies there's your personality hell there's even there's even the idea that depending on what time of the day you go to the Assessment Center to be graded that might impact your score right I read a study about on Israeli judges of all people that showed that in the afternoon they were much likely to default to just standardized matrixes when giving sentences in the morning they were much likely to be more likely be completed contemplative and thoughtful so like you really get a better shake if you on the morning right it's the same kind of thing so saying that to say I can't tell them with any certainty what the formula is to get promoted but applying our via negativa philosophy I can tell them 100% for sure how to tank their chances of getting promoted right I can tell you all the things you need to do to ensure you will never be promoted and we start deconstructing the reverse engineering that it's almost the best I can offer them for the people that come to me early when we talk about we talk about our mindset we talk about building in a way of being that isn't authentic it becomes part of who you are right it becomes second nature so you know at first maybe you're pulling out a framework right the influence pyramid oh my god how many times have I employed that but now I don't need to look at it I know it and I feel it right I can feel it level I'm at because I've practiced it I've done the work I've done the practice right I've done my five minutes a day and so it starts becoming part of who I am it's more organic and that's the goal right leaders like that to get in early on the process oh my god there's so much more likely to be able to be successful because when they're being judged they're being judged on who they really are they're not playing a role so that's a big part of what I'm doing that the mentoring the leadership you know teaching people about these principles and then always finding cool interesting ways to implement the outward mindset philosophy now one thing I wanted to do this a little bit different you guys can tell I don't have any slides and I had no idea what I was gonna say to you sorry but what I did want to do is I wanted to save I wanted to save a little bit of time to answer some questions because I feel like people have questions they want to ask I've talked to so many of you I think like almost all of you at one point or another and and I want to be able to answer some of your questions here and I don't want to make you late to leave early we know if Dave Moss comes back up here huh it could be a while so I mean I'm done you know what let's get off Dave I love that guy he's a hero of mine by the way I've got his baseball card yard art card it's the same thing so questions Mike's got a mic see what I did there Heather's got one over here by the way the last time I was talking to an audience in which I couldn't see them I melted down bad because I've seen a TED talk I did I've never done theatre and I'm a conversation guy I don't give talks I have conversations and so I couldn't see anybody and I freaked out bad like you have no idea what was going on there I called Shelley Shelley's my dearest and I call her on the phone from the balcony and I'm like honey I I'm in trouble I didn't say that I did it honey answer anything going honey he goes oh honey what's wrong with you nothing but and I told her I'm out of my league these people are amazing like they're and she goes calm down go get some note cards write down some notes I said I don't use note cards did you do today if no card tried out some notes let it go and so what Jim Farrell said to me it made the omission I'm pretty sure it was Jim though because Michos had talked to me much what Jim asked me was it amazing I wish she would have said this before the talk he goes with chip he goes when when you were worried about the way you were communicated with him who were you thinking about me I don't want to look like a he said yeah that might have been the issue right you're not thinking about the people you're speaking to when you're worried about you right and so he said something like throw yourself on the audience and trust them to catch you where the hell were you when I needed you Jim we can edit out that word question sir I can't see you this is Jamie I would like you to comment on how you use the word mindset as it relates to like de-escalation in the field of law enforcement because they both have you know connecting components to it yes sir well thank you for the question we don't we haven't clearly define that term for law enforcement by the way I'm actually moderating a panel on de-escalation in Phoenix here in a couple months and one of the things I'm gonna ask the experts to do is to define that term what does that mean for law enforcement because it could mean a lot of things right there's a tactical component to it and there's a certainly an interpersonal component to it but but so the way that we employ the outward mindset it really comes back to that basic question is what would it be like to be this person in this situation whether we're dealing with a hostage barricaded situation where the ROO dealing with somebody who's potentially suicidal or or perhaps off their medication and suffering from mental illness what would it be like to be this person at situation experiencing this context as they do and that informs in a lot of ways our response so it tells us things like well if I were that person in this situation suffering from that illness I wouldn't want the police rushing up on me so perhaps we take a different posture and we stay back and we use cover and we communicate from a distance right and of course I'm intensely curious about people with an outward mindset so I actually learn about the things that are unique about people with that particular impairment right you know so I want to know more about bipolar because I know I contact a lot of people that are bipolar so we onboard and bring in first to train and teach us it's the same thing you do with a thought to reduce the dog shootings that you guys heard about same thing what would it be like to have your dog shot by the police well not good let's bring in people that are experts to teach us some ways not to do that as much so it really informs the escalation at a foundational level right not so much tactical EADS into the tactical but it's all founded on this idea of seeing people as people and then also understanding that within the context of one of those situations you have opportunities to work that pyramid to work that framework you have opportunities to build relationships large and small in that situation some aren't as significant as you think they might be but they're what's needed for that situation and then listen and learn and teaching and communicate and those type of things so I hope that answers your question hey good morning chip dan McKay your we've all seen your your video of the interaction with your son and I gotta tell you change it changed my life so so thank you but I'd love to hear up a little bit about the Paul Harvey of that because I'm still strong I'm not old enough new Paul Harvey is so use a different reference thank you thank you I still don't know what you're talking about okay well look so I already told you my oh geez already acted up once right so there you go you go to you go there well so the rest of the story is that my older son Chris he's still kind of struggling a little bit to find out who he is in the world he's got all these untapped talents and I'm still working really hard to stay outward with him because at his age I feel this need to get him so much advice but I'm fighting it fighting it fine and I'm just trying to love him through it right we are we have a great relationship we we just went to the movies last week we went out to dinner had a great talk he's been struggling with some things on a personal level that he's open with me about and we talk about and he actually values I mean I listen more than I talked him people find that hard to believe that know me I listed more than I talked to him but it's become so powerful our relationship and Shelley my my my beautiful wife man she's so she's so naturally outward she contributes to my relation with my sons and such an impactful way like I could tell you so much about her arbitrate families met her I mean she's amazing and like I was so excited for her to go to a facilitation I really wanted to go to this she's gonna love this and so she goes two days jack oh well my dear friend facilitates and he's great at this and so he's like three levels deep as you know as we say Matt he's three levels deep and Armiger so but but he does this and so work her and I ride down to the lake and and and I'm like waiting for her to tell me how great this is and she's like not saying anything and I'm like really say anything about the two days of Arbenz you're gonna say anything so funny I asked her like two and a half hours I said honey would you think of the Train and she goes oh oh it was really good right and I said well do you have any thoughts and she was mmm I had one I kept wondering why you have to teach people this stuff well you're no longer invited to the business meetings that's for dang sure but so she she says to me things like this I said with Chris at dinner I make a comment I think so you guys know what cognitive dissonance is right there's between what you think about yourself and what others think about you hint one of those things is more accurate than the other I think I'm really funny most people think I'm inappropriate so I'll make a joke at the table at Chris's expense right and Chris isn't oriented like I am you know he's got a different personality and thank God and so you know we're riding home and here shall we sit in the pasture seat she's like just quiet and I'm like oh hey what are you thinking about babe this is her she's gonna kill me if she ever sees this she's like oh nothing I saw you just seemed like something's on your mind just well I was just wondering what it would feel like to be Chris tonight the weird thing to wonder what you wear that for it's just well I I know how much he admires you now and I've seen the way your relationship has changed especially since your exposure to Harbinger and I know how much he looks up to you and here he's in front of all his family and you this person they admire so much and you make a comment like the one you made and his expense and I just kind of wonder you know how I might feel about that you know you think I ought to call him she goes oh I can't tell you what to do and he it's going great and the last thing I'll say about my sons is my Jack Cole and I I won't cry this time Jack when I tell this because I've told it enough now but Jack Cole and I were in Gainesville Florida for our batur just a couple of years ago and Brandon was stationed in Destin Florida so if you're familiar with that geography I would say Google Maps probably tell you about six hours between those two on the road he found out Jack and I were in Gainesville for an overnight engagement he drove six hours one-way had dinner with us and drove home and this was a kid who moved out of my house when he was a senior in high school he could not wait to get away so the rest of the story is things are really progressing well they're not bump free it's not like you know well you know we're not on autopilot we still have challenges we have to deal with all the time and you know of course there's that that specter of the old me there right keep in mind I was never classically abusive I was disconnected that was my mode I was never like people well you must've been really bad well yeah I mean I think I was really bad but in a way that you wouldn't you don't typically associate with abusive right I was just disinterested disengaged so it's going very well I'm very happy to report that and I think ultimately you would probably have to ask them and you're welcome to have their number that would be the best metric think about time for one more question before we turn it over I may just be saying that that may not be true I'm Diane yet oh hey hi how are you good you should come up here and ask the questions amazing a question I have is in law enforcement when you are engaging and such intensity with people who have a lot of difficulties and can sometimes portray you know some some realities of being human that aren't great to be involved with all the time highs outward mindset help you stay resilient yeah oh that's a great question well better than that it doesn't help me stay resilient it helps me stay anti fragile it's a different thing man so so something that's resilient remains unchanged because of stress like a rubber ball you bounce to the ground a thousand times it's the same as before you bounced it right it's resilient it doesn't change but something that's anti fragile actually benefits from harm and stress it gets stronger when it's stressed that's what the outward mindset does for us in law enforcement that's what it does to me personally I actually seek out opportunities to do I check myself into stressful situations as an opportunity to grow stronger and learn I don't shy away from that anymore for fear that I can't deal with them or for fear that my incompetence will be exposed I go headlong into it because I am but just by this knowledge this way of being the sense of of the way I need to really responsive to people in those situations I feel stronger and able to deal with it and so I'm able to to learn and to to extract the lessons out of each of those tense situations and helps me get better when I deal with the next ones and next thing you know I'm mentoring people on how to deal with those things so just cascading effect right so it's actually I think about it more like that it's not that I stay the same I'm never the same guys we're never the same we're always changing we're either getting better we're getting worse and when it comes to the box we're in we're out it really depends on the context right the key is being able to recognize when we're in and to get stronger and better so in so many ways that's the term that comes to mind right you know I think we just get stronger that way so that's great I want to wrap up and make sure that I give the stage back over to - to Dave and ultimately I hope Mitch or Jim look look no I noticed well we sure took that in the wrong direction that is the last time though by God last time I want to pick on Dave I want to leave you guys with a thought and it goes back to the way I started this this conversation about authenticity and the outward mindset I just got to spend some time I've gotten Arbonne Jers given the opportunities that I never ever ever would have had in my lifetime you know I was a homeless kid rescued to the farm working for a buck 75 scrub in waters and a turkey farm you know hauling hay you know in the military at 17 you know I did the opportunities that I have gotten because of our Berringer and the way they've expanded my my way of seen is just off the charts amazing and so I've made some great friendships as a result of that I got to spend some time with General Stanley McChrystal in October up in DC and and and I had a conversation around leadership and I shared a bit with him about what we were doing here at Arbonne Journey shared a bit with me about what they were doing - McChrystal group and we were talking about just leadership in general and I brought up this this idea of the outward mindset and an authenticity and he said this to me I'm gonna leave you guys with this because the way he said this it just it just it just struck me he said chip authenticity is incredibly important people will forgive you for not being the leader that they think you should be but they won't forgive you for not being the leader you say you are thank you all for the gift of your time for letting me come up here and chat with you guys awesome you