one two three four welcome to the high performance CEO show your exclusive insight into the strategies and success habits of the world's top CEOs I'm your host Sebastian chica entrepreneur mentor and business agent prepare to grow your business enhance your leadership skills and thrive in today's world let's Dive In welcome to another episode of the high performance CEO show today I'm talking to Jason Kingsley Chase and Kingsley obec co-founder and the CEO of rebellion which is a true British success story following his secret Oxford Chase an established Rebellion with his brother Chris in 1992 and the company has since then become one of the world's most successful independent video game developers and publishers games like snipers Elite 5 Alien vs Predators um zombie army Evil Genius and many more games you might recognize have been reduced and created by Jason's company he also is a decorated and accomplished writer haven't contained the British student writing team to success at the World Cup White City University he has an amazing YouTube channel modern history before his interview I watched probably half an hour his his videos very interesting stuff and he's now publishing his book leading the Rebellion questing to succeed in work and life amazing read Jason welcome to the show thank you very much for having you here that makes me sound very Grand it's been a long and busy life I've had a very interesting life obviously at so yes reading your your CV and I had a pleasure to have a copy of your book and we share a lot of values about life and business and this is why it's a really pleasure for me having you here in the show and I mean I have so far no real um touch with with history the medieval histories or I was fascinated by uh watching your videos and uh learning about the myth and uh and why they had these small doors and in their houses so now maybe start a little bit uh telling about your story you know where you come from and how this all developed I mean I've audit you well I've always been very I've always tried to be quite independent so I went through sort of normal academic uh school did did my kind of exams at various stages they went to Oxford University did a zoology degree and sort of did academic training but while I was doing all the academic work and sort of learning the scientific principles of hypothesis and experiment I was also fascinated by business and I was fascinated by creative business in particular so writing books or playing computer games or whatever it might be and then the opportunity came up with a growing industry the computer games industry my brother was very interested in programming so he decided once we'd both left University to um have a go at doing it professionally but not with the intent really of making a fortune or making and making a lot of money or making a success of it other than to do cool stuff and have fun with a Pursuit we felt you know we could probably earn a living from it and if you can earn a living and have fun then that's great you know you're the wealthiest person on the planet yeah quite frankly we talked about how wealth doesn't buy happiness in fact sometimes you see a lot of wealthy people and I get annoyed and I go why aren't you doing anything really creative and fun you've got tons of money you've got more money than you could ever spend so do something cool with it help people make something lovely make something interesting I've always felt that was an interesting issue with our society in general and it's ethics it's about ethics and the book the book started I was I was studying the chivalric code which I'd sort of heard about in an early early uh when I was a boy and I just thought it was a set of rules written down and the more I looked at it the more it moved away it was um it was more an ethos it was more a set of guidelines to help Society deal with armed groups of men with armor and and horses and uh Spears and swords it was an attempt I think an early attempt for society to codify a form of behavior to make the world a better place out of conduct yeah and a lot of it is about thriving to be a better person it's not necessarily about succeeding it's about the path you've taken the journey to be a better human being and it suddenly occurred to me that I'd lived my business life and my kind of fantasy life if you like my medieval side of things and my love of fantasy books like Lord of the Rings and TV shows and moves like all the Slayer they came together and I suddenly realized there were ethics behind all of it there was a way of Behaving and a way of doing business that especially these days when we've got a lot of very wealthy people whose ethics are not really front and center of their public Persona I thought it was an opportunity to to address that in a tiny way yeah I mean uh first of all you opposite it very well you know you had the plan of feeding yourself now you feed about 500 people which is a bit of an achievement yeah yes yes no concrets for that yeah and and families as well because one of the things I think in in a leadership position you've obviously got various pulls on your time you but but I think at the base of it you've got a bunch of talented individuals who have families these days you know when we first started it was often was mostly young men in the computer games industry now it's it's all sorts of people and all sorts of ages including people that were bored at times when I remember very clearly being alive you know we it's amazing as you get older this idea that what you thought was a long time in the past is actually a really long time in the past for some people it becomes historic I remember seeing one of one of my first uh people might not remember the Nintendo Game Boy the original gray Nintendo Game Boy it was like a brick of a game brilliant machine Nintendo a brilliant company um and I went to a museum I was I was a guest of honor and I saw toys that I'd had as a boy in the museum and I suddenly became gray and old instantly you know I just thought wow this is amazing but that also makes you think of a little bit about history and about going back into our past and then beyond that how did people think of themselves did Medieval people ever go well I'm a medieval person and the answer is no they did this only now we can look at them back then they were just people my first computer was an Amiga oh wow yeah very nice computer 32 32 colors I can remember the early days of having to use pixels to actually do pixel art on the screen and uh and that was state of the Arts and you look back at old computer games and one of the key things that's changed in computer games isn't necessarily the gameplay it's the graphics and what we can do now on the screen where's the gamepl couple of people young Lads sitting in a room starting code kind of the typical nerds which we um yeah but but now it's a really established business and uh it's uh it's larger than I think you you mentioned in your in your book larger than your TV industry yes larger than the film industry and the TV industry and the music industry it's massive what's interesting is I think it's it's almost snuck up on everybody in in Authority in that you know I talked to colleagues at the BBC for example and I I talked to members of the of the UK Parliament because I'm uh I'm chair of a Trade Organization so I I talked to uh our bosses if you like in in government and um a lot of them aren't that familiar with the games industry which is quite strange but is it is I think because the games industry has grown and changed so rapidly it's hard to keep up with it so uh yeah so one of the one of my jobs is to educate them about games are for a huge audience there's a there's hundreds of millions of people throughout the world that play games and we can make a game in in the UK and it can be played all around the world it can be exported but it doesn't have to be exported on ships burning diesel it can be yeah sent over the wires you know the internet yeah this wonderful thing that uh empowers us all and probably infuriates us all as well the internet it allows us to actually get smaller as a world and see what other people are doing definitely I mean I spent the last six months in New Zealand having being in touch with people running my shows uh it's a it's amazing how small the world has become nowadays we have friends everywhere you know we we hardly meet and it's like eating them down in the pub yeah and there's lots of opportunities to connecting with you like-minded people which otherwise you would never be able to because um they are some as physically in the world well I I find it interesting I think there are different forms of friendship these days as well because I realized I know a lot of I've got a lot of youtubing colleagues that work in the sort of the the the medieval-ish space the live-action role playing and maybe movies and games and they're they're all friends of mine and um I met one of them in in real life and I I said to him to this particular individual I said this is a bit weird I kind of know you really well from your work and from you you know from Zoom videos and video conferencing and chats but we've not actually physically met in the same space on the planet have we you went no it's weird for me as well I kind of feel like you're a friend that I've never actually met um and and I think for you for me we've got a we've got thousands hundreds of thousands of people that that know us through our work yeah and our work is quite raw you know it's not like it's descriptive it's not like an actor who's got a scripted line to say and that you know this is this is us you know we're talking now and giving people our our feedback and our opinions and so people actually know us quite well in some ways they know an aspect of us and I think that's that's actually quite wonderful I was in I traveled to America a few years ago and I was waiting in the in the line for the um the security you know to have my bags checked and I was wearing this red shirt well not this one but another red shirt similar to the one I use sometimes in in my videos and this big bloke came up to me and was carrying a gun and I was thinking oh no here we go I'm gonna miss my flight aren't I and he went come with me sir and I thought oh well never mind I haven't got anything to hide so it's just going to be lots of time and uh he said I'm a huge fan of your YouTube channel and would you like to come through here and beat the queue and I felt a bit guilty because I don't I don't really like yeah jumping the queue because I'm a celebrity or whatever because I'm not a celebrity I just me but um in this particular case I thought fine I can't really go to the back of the queue can I I'll I'll take the the opportunity we had a nice little chat he checked my bags and waved me through and told me a shortcut to get to the lounge and uh and I just thought that's really odd uh but really kind of interesting people throughout the world didn't know our work your what is this book and you have this code of conduct yeah which you sort of translated into the modern business world yes that's that's the idea I was I was going through the chivalric code of trying to find out where it was written down and it's been written down in lots of different ways and different cultures have different uh sort of thoughts about what it is it was never really formalized there was never a sort of a central kind of central place that defined the chivalric code it was it emerged in different places at different times in different ways a lot of it comes from the language doc the southern parts of France that would actually France they were the occultan region and they had their own religion and all that kind of stuff and it's also synonymous with Troubadours and these sort of romantic courtly uh plays which is really interesting it overlays that whole sort of high medieval early medieval High medieval stuff um and obviously France and England were great Rivals uh in the medieval period lots of Wars all the time uh but there was also a shared and there was a shared culture of of Behaving well the trouble is some of it doesn't matter very well yeah there's a there's a whole area of uh about the chivalric codes in certain aspects of them about um going over to the Middle East and and kind of fighting against the enemies of the of the Christian uh Christian God which of course is is and it's very male orientated as well so what I've tried to do is interpret them on a broader way and say this this applies to not just men it applies to everybody and it applies outside the color combat locations you know what is Fidelity what does faithfulness mean what does bravery mean in a business context what does wisdom mean in a business context and all of these things obviously been interpreted in different ways by different people I found some bits missing as well which is which might amuse you for example the in the um Holy Roman Empire the area that is now Germany and sort of north northern Europe the the concept of humility in Knights is not really talked about very much which I find fascinating whereas humility in French Frankish areas and and and England was was considered to be a nightly virtue whereas humility in the German and northern European areas was not and I I kind of I don't know why just seems to be the way it developed over time okay and also a lot of people failed as well people failed to be shiverik all the time and I think that's what we need to be aware of so we we can't be perfect we shouldn't be try to be perfect we should try to do our the best we can in the circumstances exactly it's a process you know every day you try to improve one percent you know and it it's a journey yeah we will never reach this end goal and uh yeah well I think that's also the the story of the the key arthas Knights and searching for the Holy Grail and pretty much all of them never find it I think one one night Percival finds it but can't get hold of it he sees it he sees the holy grail and the principle really is it's the journey the journey is the thing the only thing we can control the end the end game well sadly we all know what the end game for all of us is you know we'll pass on our knowledge hopefully to other people and then off we go but it's what we leave behind it's what we've done on that journey and I've tried to live my life in a way that does that has positive impact on people as much as I can and also that I enjoy as well I'm not a purity you know I like a good glass of wine sometimes or meat actually I'm really into Mead at the moment really like that you know and and I probably fail sometimes to meet the ideal chivalry goals but I'm still trying that the trying is the thing exactly yeah intentionally trying to implement these these habits into your life you know and uh to have an impact and also to be happy I mean you touched in the beginning on that many people especially who are very wealthy and Rich are unhappy yeah and the question is why is that you know why I mean they have every resources in the world yeah they have everything they they can dream off and and still they um they're unhappy they're striving for more they don't find joy in small things they don't contribute yeah yes yeah they just stole their money and don't have any any exciting Adventures really um yeah I think it comes down to how you see yourself and I think for a lot of people money is a substitute somehow a score they keep yeah to prove to themselves that they're doing well but there are so many there are many happy rich people of course don't get me wrong and I'm not saying it but there also seemed to be a large number that are or at least give the impression that they're quite dysfunctional that they're searching after things that are unobtainable no matter how much money you have because once you get to a certain perspective there are certain points in in Financial Security and I'm not saying being rich is a bad thing I I think there's a point at which it becomes absurd that having multiple billions and doing nothing with it seems to be a bit weird to me then that's my perspective and I I guess I don't have multiple billions so um but but you also get people that seem to be very unhappy with their own self share their body image and what they do to themselves and there are a lot of I think our society tends to breed paranoia in the media that the media talks about bad stories because they're the ones that get people's attention and clicks and and it creates this spiral of terrible things going on and very rarely do you hear small good things happening to people because they're not they're not clicking it doesn't sell yeah exactly yeah I mean when you look at uh didn't use its 95 trauma stories especially here in in in Western Europe so as I said I spent six months in New Zealand and you look at the news there it's um much more local you know I mean um yellow data was an article about a horse who fall into a trap into a hole yeah this was on it on the front page of the newspaper yeah I think this is uh this really um primes people a different uh Direction they are much more happier because they are not focused on all these uh traumas and also they don't have so much money compared to people in Western Europe for example they're happy I mean tell you a quick story I was uh I was there with my son you know when I was striving from he was doing um hockey driving into underwater hockey on a Friday evening and uh he was hungry yeah so I mean there's nothing out and we stopped at one of these small um kiosk you know I mean very basic store and so I got him a pack of cookies yeah and not the healthiest thing but there was nothing else available so I went to the cash point and took my phone because back then I mean I hardly carried any cash it was all um Wireless um and I wanted to put my phone on the machine and then there was a sign called no pay wave your pay versus the system to wireless a contactless payment and I said oh you know I can't buy these cookies now for my son because I have no cash with me and you know what this guy said I'll just take it oh wow it just it just handed me the cookies I mean it was a very um simple store like this guy probably didn't have much money yeah and he was giving me this cookie for I don't know five dollars yeah and that would never happen to me he invest in Europe I mean uh it's it really I mean the next day I went there and I gave him this money and I'd say thank you and but I was so I was so touched you know by this gesture of giving me these cookies and I thought hey why are we always so um our default mode here is um distrust you know we don't trust people there the default mode is trust first they trust you yeah they give you something and this is this is so much this is such a difference and sometimes I really ask why why are we like that you know yeah why but I don't I don't be trust why don't we give first before we receive I agree and I do wonder if it's to do with um the the algorithms in the media and in the sort of the the content we consume the the newspaper the newspaper headlines equivalent that the other newspapers are kind of declining but the idea of the the newspaper is trying to sell copies of the newspaper so they put a an outrageous headline that asks a question and you even if you don't buy the newspaper you read it and you think oh no something bad has happened and that constant drip drip drip of yep people try to get your attention with with outrageous headlines the click the equivalence of clickbaitly uh before clickbait was a thing um just wears you down it's called the sort of it it makes your brain think all of these things are happening all the time I mean looking at the research I was doing for my medieval stuff looking through the court roles and uh and thing bad things that happened um it was a much more violent place the Medieval World there wasn't a police force you know you go outside the the major cities there wasn't really a that was sort of was a justice but it was small scale like met local magistrates so somebody's pig ate your apples uh and that was a big issue because you know you didn't have that much there wasn't a supermarket to go to and if you know people are you know people laugh and it is small but it's also big for people that live in that kind of agrarian place um but uh you know cesspit's overflowing and um people falling into Wells and these things but they mattered for those people but the amount of communication they had was based on the speed of a horse there was no broadcast headlines to say that somebody in this big city has been murdered that because you would care about it because it didn't matter because that was 50 miles away and it's irrelevant and by the time anybody told you you say so what but there was much more violence happening but there was no communication of that news to to all of us so it's almost this flow of information that the internet has given us which kind of makes us more sensitive and want to consume more negative stuff I I've noticed my myself I I've taken various apps off my mobile phone because I thought what am I doing I I spend a lot of time creating content sure I try to create content that's Evergreen that asks questions how long yeah how far can you travel on a horse you know uh that kind of thing which doesn't helps people escape a little bit from the the real world sorry how far can you uh well if you're going really fast about 55 miles you can ride about 55 60 miles in a day but you'll be really sore and really tired but at average an average sort of uttering along having fun maybe stopping for lunch ready ready five miles on a horse on the foot is some roughly 15 if you're traveling gently you can you can March and long distance Walkers do a lot further than that but but I'm talking about people traveling because they've got to travel not because they're trying to beat a time or they're not long distance marathon runners or anything like that and that means there's a video coming out soon which is a difference about taverns and Inns uh and Inns were places you stayed and they're often located at roughly a day's travel from one place to another so an old Crossroads so you would you would decide you're going from Oxford to Canterbury and it would be a certain distance I don't know how many days travel probably four or five days at least you would expect to stop for four or five nights at these Inns and you would meet people coming the other way and you'd meet people going north to south as well as east to west and you'd Mingle in a in a sort of this Melting Pot of this sort of location where everybody's going to stay the night and everybody's moving they've got their Journeys and you know you'll just meet them they'll just be in The Tap Room they'll be drinking beer or mead with you and uh you might have a conversation they're like oh did you realize that there's a new king a new king of England it's like is there does it make any difference no tax is the same yes money the same yeah mostly uh okay cool or we've invaded France yet have we oh lie me not again does that make any difference to us not really unless they come around and make some of us join the Army uh we're still going to get the turnips in we've still got to pick the apples we still gonna look after our pigs and and I I just this this immediate news and and the news media wanting your attention it's the thing that sensitizes us to this negativity definitely the question which which uh sort of came up for me is are there records about mental health in the medieval times are have these people been happier or I mean they obviously I mean you said it's a very brutal time uh they've been very poor but yeah not this um this constant in coming negativity in terms of news and and messages are there any records uh no very few there's a few if you read between the lines you could you could hear people coming back from Wars that had PTSD or at least they never wanted to go anywhere again and became recluses or wanted to just you know stop the world I want to get off you could you could imply that some uh a mental health issue potentially quite a severe one I mean medieval war was brutal um utterly brutal it's not I'm not saying Modern War isn't brutal and a lot of it's sort of gunfire but medieval war was very close up uh and he also had people that were more used to life and death because they often they would also often kill their own animals to eat them you know the the uh tragedies like um childbirth caused a lot of women to die a lot of children to die as well yeah roughly 50 of people didn't make it to adulthood yeah I just learned this half an hour ago when I watched one of your videos and so I think there's a perhaps a bit more fatalism as well if you've had six children and only three of them have lived to adulthood that would give you a certain perspective on the world and and I think times were really bad for women I think they were bad for men but they were really bad for women they're certainly the medieval period women did have rights in different parts of the of the country of of Europe as well and so the north you go more into sort of viking-dominated areas women had many more rights and it seems to be towards the South they had fewer rights well they it was it's very complicated and and try to generalize but of course women were having babies there's no form of contraception women were having babies at a very young age as well you know that that people were remarried 14 15 was perfectly normal age to be married if you were if you were very wealthy if you were aristocracy you were often you're kind of married when you were children um which meant that you didn't necessarily marry somebody you liked you married because they had land and you wanted to join them together which is why lots of Kings had Mistresses because they had Mistresses for love and affection and they had wives for Offspring and and political reasons so that that sort of gone away to a certain extent now and that chords have been very nice but I suppose if you're born into that uh and it's what you expect that would be fine but dear disease isn't plague imagine imagine the Black Death sweeping through from from Marseille all the way up through Europe and imagine roughly a third to a half of everybody you know dying and I mean we can reflect on that a bit more because we you know we're just coming out of a pandemic but a pandemic that killed tiny proportion of people still still tragic abortion and I I'm being affected by it personally and I pretty much everybody I know has been directly or indirectly affected by it scale that up ten times yeah how does that effect I imagine it affects everybody really badly so there's a lot of learning we can take from the past yeah take from medieval times and um I mean writing your book coming up this this 12 chapters what do you think are the most important learnings for people in today's age I personally in business in particular I think bravery is really important bravery and honesty our love honesty yeah honestly it doesn't mean you have to tell everybody everything it means you're honest to yourself now now business is sometimes likened the war and it can be it can be you know you could be trying to win more customers more clients you'll be trying to get market share fine yeah that is battle got battle with swords and you know swords and Cavalry and fights in armor I mean there's a form of it oh sure therefore you need your strategies and you might plan and you might need to react to circumstances that you didn't beat I think I think that's really important but I think Honesty to yourself and perhaps to the market there are people that hubris kind of Damages you know people that believe their own PR if you like um and I think I think keeping a balance between how you present yourself externally but also knowing your own weaknesses and strengths I think is very important so I would say bravery in business is really important but you've got to couple that with honesty you've got lots of responsibilities if you're in a leadership position you've got multiple facets to your levels of responsibility and I know people have got to be responsible to shareholders because they own your company sometimes in my case my brother and I own it so I wear two hats very lucky but you've also got responsibility to your staff you've got responsibility for your customers and I think honestly to customers is is really important as well and one of the things we've always tried to do at Rebellion is winning a customer is difficult keeping a customer is easy and more difficult uh well I I I I I think I think if you lose bad product or you're just trying to maximize your return it's really you're right but if you produce good product this is what I've tried to do this good product and when somebody's looking for another computer game or another book or another comic or even another video to watch or another podcast to what they'll first go well I like the last one this particular person did I'll have a look at what else they've got and if you can deliver another good one then you're satisfying them and you go okay that that business they've discovered you already and now they'll consume and and be interested in what you make whereas if you if you deliver them something cheap and nasty that's the opposite effect it leverages the other way as well it is completely the opposite to that and um and you'll you'll therefore you'll provide it harder because they'll go those people did a bad job they gave me a bad they gave me a piece of the thing I bought had a good photo but it's much smaller than I thought it didn't work very well I am not going to buy from them again now even if you even if that was a mistake and you delivered something by mistake you've got an uphill battle to try to win them back so it's a kind of a leverage thing so behaving well towards your customers and clients means that they will tend to want to work with you again that makes it easy exactly I mean how often did we book a holiday house based on some pictures you know and then we arrived and it was horrible yes we've all we've all done it I mean but I I bought things you know you buy things online and anything no that's a really good picture or that's the wrong size or that's a lot smaller than I was expecting um you know and I just think that that's just bad business but the other side you get something that's really good that's worked well for a long time you think I I'm gonna buy a new one of those from the same company because that's lasted five years and it's really good really well made great I have a polo shirt which I just figured out I own now for almost 20 years however I I bought this I was on a dive trip in in Australia Mike Wally company and I bought one of the other dive polo shirts back then you know and I I looked at pictures from from last year I said you still have this uh this this shirt and then it's it's almost 20 years old you know I mean how often does this happen you know and it's still in good shape and uh ideas every now and then yeah yes well good materials things will work I mean a lot of our culture is about make something cheap and fast throw it away and throw it away and that's very bad for the environment it's really bad for us and like you I've got I've got pairs of trousers and um not socks I seem to get through socks really quickly I I literally wear my socks out I think because I I do so much walking and I do so much work with the horses and um I'm facing around in my Wellington Boots so my socks don't last very long at all but yeah I've got shirts that are my favorite shirt and somebody goes well that's you're you're really in retro fashion now that's from the 80s and I'm going yeah it is actually for the 80s and I'm still wearing it straight love it love it I learned that you set up a multimedia studio is you over you oversee production uh um this is a very interesting topic which tell me a bit about this this project just so right well yeah we've actually we've actually acquired uh 250 000 square foot of Studio space just in the uh in the south of Oxford uh where our headquarters is uh because we want to do film and TV stuff um it's another area of business that we think we should we should be in and what's interesting is it's a very very conservative industry they're business models in film and TV are surprisingly old school the idea that somebody decides whether I can make a YouTube video seems absurd you know we just make it and put it out there and people decide if they want to watch it and not I mean the algorithm might serve it to lots of people or a few people but but at the end of the day we make something and we put it out there you do a podcast and you put it out there and if people love it great film with TV is about people telling you what you could make you have to pitch the idea of the YouTube video or the podcast to them and they go now I'm not sure our target audience wants that they go how do you know why don't you just say yes try it out see what the market wants and um so the idea was to become as further Independence build up our level of Independence here we work we're working with a lot of creative people and we're working with a lot of business partners in that area um It's A Hard nut to crack though film and TV is very old school people control access to the audience even even companies like Netflix you know Netflix have their way of working in the states for example we know that the heavily unionized to protect the individual people working in the industries and they have fights all the time you know we're going through that fight at the moment the the writers are on strike which means nobody could write any scripts I think the actors are working out whether they're going to go on strike next and and it's all because of the uh because it's almost a Walled Garden there's no emancipation there's no sort of ma access to the market there's no access to an audience for anybody that wants it yeah and it's probably also the the protected world they're in yeah and now with all these changes in technology with AI and so on they're probably very afraid that this protected world will sort of change you know and as you said I mean we just created a YouTube video and put it out you know with low cost you know yeah but everything in the film industry is is a big budgets behind big Investments and this is why this everything is so protected and um and close yeah yeah absolutely well you and I can we could boost a half hour or an hour long chat like we're doing now and we can get it out to the people and people can like it if they can follow us in different places try and see more of our work whatever it might be and it's taken us the time it's taken us and we haven't got too many people hanging around I've got no makeup on and you haven't got a wig on and you're not yeah there's no dance routine and all that kind of stuff so we're it's a very it's a very um natural natural yeah very natural way of doing things whereas whereas Hollywood is not like that but but I also question whether it can stay like that so for example Netflix at the moments are in a bit of a bind because you're not shareholders their shareholders want will will know how well they're doing and they have to they they let people know with data they've got tons of data which is great and they determine that somebody has watched something if they've interacted with it for a certain length of time and that certain length of time might be 30 seconds now I wouldn't consider somebody watching one of my videos for 30 seconds a success I think it was a failure I'd go oh obviously I haven't interested you in what I'm doing you know that's a shame and I need to do something about it you know 30 seconds would be bad but for Netflix it's great but also Netflix have to pay all the people that were involved in making it based on whether somebody's watched it and of course Netflix need a bigger number for their shareholders to say lots more people are watching it but they want a smaller number because they've got to pay a percentage to the people that they that made it for them as part of the deal and I think that's a massive tension there because Netflix can modify its numbers I'm not I'm not detailed I don't know the details about this but if for example you wanted to massage the numbers let's say of viewers of a particular TV show you could drop that threshold from one minute to 30 seconds your numbers would go up but it wouldn't mean more people had watched it but the headlines for the shareholders might it might have a positive impact or we could do it the other way you could say actually we don't count a viewing of a TV show there's a viewing of a TV and until somebody's watched all of it in which case your numbers would collapse and have been plenty of failed TV shows where people watch it they're not that bothered by it and then they just click off because they're not interested in it um yeah so we've got lots of data but it's how that data is then manipulated and presented to shareholders who determine whether your shares go up or down and a lot of these companies borrow based on their share value or they increase in their share price and of course that leverages them up but when it goes the other way it leverages the other way badly and suddenly they can't borrow the money the bank's gonna give me my money back please and then that causes a catastrophe I think that's bad business basically but but I've never been in the public markets if it's how the public markets work I don't want my business to work that way yeah I just read uh well just reading uh dark Towers it's a book about um Deutsche Bank about how they run their business and just before the 2008 before the crisis their ratio between World money and own money was 52 yeah I mean they could lend out they had one dollar but they could say they could lend fifty dollars yeah so that's like me saying uh hey have a have a fifty dollars but I've only got one dollar yeah exactly Madness isn't it crazy yeah crazy yeah but this is how how um they they play these games uh yeah um as you said I mean uh it it it can work for a while but uh it can go south quite quickly uh and uh with a big impact on on everyone on shareholders but also on and on yeah employees and the whole industry yeah if your business is based on permanent expansion it is obvious you cannot expand forever there is there is literally a limit to the number of people on the planet or space on the planet that could buy your thing if everybody bought an iPhone I guess you could just sell them another one but uh there is literally a limit that there has to be a ceiling therefore any business is going to necessarily kind of scale differently I mean I could talk to you for hours we should do it again when we come out in a couple of weeks right uh mid of July yes that's right 18. probably should have been it'll support your local Bookshop I I love bookshops so I would encourage people to go into bookshops and order it but it's also available as sort of all the various online places where you where you buy books and available digitally as well and at some stage I've got to get around to doing an audio book version of it interesting so I mean 12 chapters you go through all these as I said you took the travel record adapted it to Modern Life to Modern business you put in your own stories which is very interesting yes yes a little bit about how I got into the whole medieval thing and my first ponies and and my experiences in in jousting and what it means to do these things and uh yes there's a little bit of biography a little bit of autobiography in there as well amazing I can't wait to to finish the book actually it's an interesting interest and read lots of lots of learnings and I can only recommend it to the audience go and get it and you dive into a complete new word at least for me yeah Medieval World and very interesting I mean your videos on YouTube I mean I watched him more than 30 seconds so good thank you very much yes uh uh your mother history TV is the channel and leading the Rebellion is the book and uh yeah I want to keep making cool stuff for people and and hopefully hopefully lift them a little bit out of this sort of negativity uh a lot overly uh I'm not a I'm not trying to be all happy clappy about it but I'm trying to make them think a little bit about life and and and how it can be good life can be very good love it is there anything else you'd like to share with the audience before we um rev up not Chase particularly no I'm I do various different forms of social media I'm a rebellion Jason on Twitter should anybody be interested in that uh format but uh I do a few bits and pieces on Tick Tock and things like that but my main my main channels are um uh are really YouTube we will share your your links in the show notes of course wonderful go check out uh Jason on YouTube and um yeah I mean thank you so much for being on the show my pleasure is the time with me and um yeah I mean um all is best for future endeavors and uh good luck with your book launch thank you very much hopefully we'll speak again you know when you've got a moment and we can just we can just chatter about things I've enjoyed it very much would love to be as well thanks Chase thank you thank you for tuning into the high performance CEO show I'm your host Sebastian Chica and it's been a pleasure serving you please subscribe to our show on your favorite platform and leave us a review your support helps us reach more listeners and create a bigger impact check out our website Sebastian chica.com for additional resources until next time be bold be exceptional be outstanding be a leader