We often say, "Isn't it because of low self-esteem that you can't converse?" but that is n't true. Everyone struggles with conversation. It was the same for me. I'm not good at anything, and I don't even know why I'm alive. In that state of so-called low self-esteem, the questions people find incredibly difficult to ask are... Hello, this is Han Seok-jun from the Knowledge Invitation Corner. It is the Knowledge Invitation Corner, delivering high-level knowledge from true masters. Today's guest is Director Park Jae-hyun of the Replus Human Research Institute, who studies highly sophisticated human conversation techniques. Welcome. Yes, hello, nice to meet you. I also make a lot of videos related to conversation, and many of the questions asked are connected to self-esteem. So, let me ask you this: what are the characteristics of people with low self-esteem when they converse? The keyword "self-esteem" has actually been a very important issue in my life as well. In the dictionary sense, self-esteem is simply the feeling of valuing oneself. However, many people think that self-esteem is something that exists or doesn't exist, something that grows or disappears. But having trained in conversation with people or observed clients for a little over 18 years, the self-esteem I felt was like the sun. It does n't just disappear; the sun is actually always there. Just like the sun, self-esteem always exists within our hearts, until the very moment we die. However, as we live, we personally experience various events of loss. A beloved friend might pass away, or the job to which we dedicated ourselves might no longer be needed. There are these personal events of loss that individuals experience. Secondly, there is the issue of socio-cultural heritage. For instance, I refer to our social structure—such as our country's traditional culture of saving face—as "clouds." So, while the sun is always there, if it is sometimes obscured by events of loss or cultural heritage, it feels as though it doesn't exist. I believe we can describe this state of low self-esteem as what we commonly call low self-esteem. When we say someone has low self-esteem, we can say there are "many clouds." A very common characteristic of conversation among these people is that they cannot hear well; they cannot listen to others. Their minds are so full of their own thoughts that there is no room for what others say to enter. What kind of thoughts fill their heads? First, they are filled with the desire to attack the other person. "You are ignoring me," "You are looking down on me," they blame the other person, and they feel the pain of being disrespected. It means you develop a conversational pattern where you try to attack the other person intensely, saying things like, "It’s all your fault I’m suffering like this because you didn’t treat me properly." If this were just one thing, life would n’t be so painful. However, thoughts attacking you follow. " Why did I twist that again back then?" "Why did I get so worked up at that person?" Because you are so tightly gripped by thoughts of attacking yourself and the other person, even if someone speaks with good intentions, you do n't hear it clearly in that moment. For those whose self-esteem is not obscured, it is a trivial question, but for those whose self-esteem is heavily obscured, there are things they cannot answer at all. We have core beliefs that we hold, but among them, there are two very sad beliefs. In that state where we say our self-esteem has dropped, the belief of self-sacrifice is activated: "What does what I want matter? I can just adjust to the other person." The second is the belief of submission: "It doesn't matter to me, so do as you please." Therefore, in this state, the question that people find very difficult to answer is, "Teacher, what do you want?" When asked about their needs, they cannot answer well. "What I want? I’ve never thought about that." They feel they must always finish something and receive recognition from someone. There were many people who did it and needed approval. So, when the dark clouds of soccer were thick—that approval and recognition—they couldn't answer the question, "So, what do you want?" very well. The second reason is that for those people, their thoughts are always focused on comparison: "Am I inferior to someone else?" or "Am I better than someone else?" So, they feel very uncomfortable with questions they already know how to ask. They can't express feelings well—like, "It's not about comparison, inferiority, or superiority," or "I am proud of myself," or "I sometimes feel pleased," or "I feel wronged" —because their consciousness always remains only in their thoughts. The third reason is that they cannot answer the question, "What are your strengths?" They say, "I'm not good at anything," or "I'm useless, I guess." They say, "I don't even know why I live." But there was one person who left a strong impression on me. He was a man in his 50s, and he was listening to the question. He said, " Teacher, there are a lot of stray cats in the complex where I live. When I see them, whether I know anyone or not, I go to the convenience store, buy cat food, and leave it for them. I like that side of myself." That is the point. However, there was another person who... well, as for baseball... It seems like you're doing well, and it's like, "Just stay still." Ah, this isn't really a matter of self-esteem; it feels more like a story about discovering who I am. Absolutely. In conversation, you can't know the other person if you don't know who you are. When you're talking, if you don't know your own heart, you can't know the other person's heart. So, training to get to know yourself is ultimately training to converse well. I believe that the conversation of self-awareness, often expressed through silence, accounts for 80% of conversation. Now, for those of you watching this video who might be thinking, "Is this perhaps my story?", is there a way to practice something or change your mindset? You need to look at the shape of that cloud. Second, you need to feel how your heart feels when you look at that cloud. For example, it's like this: " Even when people make me feel bad, I keep smiling. But when I come home, I feel so stupid." When someone says this, we don't say, "Oh, Teacher, you're not stupid. You have a very strong ego." We don't say, do we? We ask, " Teacher, when you look at yourself smiling in a situation where you shouldn't, how do you feel right now?" Then, most people at that moment respond very warmly. Look, and then say this: "I feel so pathetic about myself." The mindset of cherishing yourself—that is exactly what it means to look out for yourself. Then, if you ask, "What would you like to say to that child?" they would say, "I would like to tell them that they don't have to act that way." So, while we actually have parts within us developed for social adaptation, there are also healthy adults who can look beyond those, at those more inherent parts. The purpose of conversation training is to activate those parts and help us converse. These days, people talk a lot about self-esteem, and even compare their self-esteem to others. I think the biggest environmental change leading to this is social media. I believe that everything we choose has both positive and negative functions. There are definitely things we hide on social media. We are so busy working that we can't meet friends. We might meet once or twice in a year of working. However, there are many things our friends know about each other that I don't. As we follow each other on Instagram, we'll say things like, "Hey, you went there yesterday." I think this is clearly a positive function. Now, as for negative functions, it could be something like, " What should I post to look like a better person?" Why did the philosopher Lagan say that we actually desire the desires of others? I mentioned this. It could be a story related to rare items, you know. For instance, I had absolutely no interest in tumblers, but seeing Announcer Han Seok-jun use one looked so cool that I bought one. So I took a picture of it and posted it, but I don't even use it myself. So, rather than the SNS itself being the problem, I think it is really necessary for you to examine your own intentions behind using it. If you do that, other people might think, "Oh, you use that kind of tumbler," and press "like," and that could be a source of joy. It would be really good to think about how long that happiness lasts. If I truly felt that way, I would keep using it. "Oh, I tried using this and it’s really good. I posted about it, I showed it off, I got recognition, and it feels good." There wouldn't be any problem with that. But what if I just posted it and stopped there, and lost interest? Because I had already met all my needs. Then, the human emotion one feels at that moment is a sense of emptiness. When I counsel many young people in their early twenties, they often talk about how hard things are. They say they work hard at part-time jobs just to make ends meet day by day, but then their group leader suggests, "Let's go to Starbucks and talk over coffee." And The fact that a bag was deliberately hanging on their shoulder, and that their father bought it for them—that is when they feel such a sense of deprivation. But I also have this thought: can we ever truly become free from this sense of deprivation in life? It’s not a culture we chose. That is why we can’t get rid of social media itself; it has already become a massive trend and culture. However, I think the ability to discern that is extremely important. I might like the item that person is using; it might be good because they are using it. If it brings me happiness, I see it as okay. But if seeing it is too painful for me, and my current situation is too difficult, then everything can come across as suffering. It’s okay to stop for a while. But most of the time, people are feeling very unwell psychologically for some reason, yet they don't really know why. They do n't know what to block either. In such cases, there is usually one’s own shadow. If you are suffering excessively from your current state, without knowing the reason, yet cannot shake off that suffering, then if you actually talk to that person, there will likely be a shadow unique to them, stored like a capsule from a very long time ago. I think the work of tracking that together is also very meaningful. When I feel alone, but this suffering... When the situation feels overwhelming and you don't know where things went wrong or what started it that way, that might actually be a sign. It could be a signal to seek out a trustworthy professional counselor. Then, is it very difficult to regain self-esteem? Is it only possible if someone has a truly sincere conversation with you? I really want to mention two things. The first is passive support. It is best if your parents serve as that supportive figure. However, most people come because they are struggling because of their parents. Therefore, with this passive support, it is important to have a supportive relationship where someone can make you the agent, rather than you being the agent yourself. A scholar I know, Diana Portia, discussed resilience and said that it is not the ability to get up when our hearts are broken, but the strength to rise when we are strong. My experience was like that too. When I was at my lowest point, I don't think I could have gotten back on my own. I believe and my experience was that you absolutely need at least one supporter—someone to lean on, who listens to your story, and looks at you warmly. However, I actually preferred the second point. The second point is to volunteer when you feel your ego function is significantly diminished. In fact, human nature is the ability to recognize one's own worth, so what is the point of the opposite—a confrontation? I am talking about the thought that I am useless. The surest way to transform that thought into a sense of usefulness is to go to someone slightly less fortunate than myself and perform acts of service. I have seen so many people do this, and their perspective truly changes. It does n't have to be some grand service. I'm not talking about donating a fortune or making a conscious effort to go around helping people 365 days a year; it's about very small acts of service—helping someone who looks like they are struggling, or checking the person behind you before opening the door for them. These small acts of helping someone make me feel better than I can imagine. One of the fundamental human instincts is the desire to cooperate. When I help someone, I feel truly alive. For instance, if you come home from work today and see an elderly woman at the crosswalk pulling a cart with her back bent from exhaustion, do n't you feel a sense of pity? She isn't even giving you money, so why do you feel that? It is because it is one of our natures. It is about reviving that nature. It is realizing, " Ah, I have the power to help someone." That is how the dark clouds testing my sense of uselessness are dispelled, and I realize that my existence as a person is precious. One way to clear away the clouds when you feel nothing at all is to go and help someone weaker than yourself. That was the best method. Why do we fail at conversation? We often say, "Hey, isn't it because you have low self-esteem that you can't talk?" but that is not true. Everyone is bad at conversation. The reason why we can't talk can be explained entirely with this one fist. Yes, this is our brain. This side, the front part, speaks. This is the normal state of the brain, and in this state, anyone can converse well. This is because every human being has been endowed with two abilities: one is empathy, and the other is problem-solving ability. For example, let's say you go home, Announcer, and your lovely seven-year-old daughter is crying. Then, please choose between 1 and 2. 1. "Oh, the child looks sad." 2. "The child looks happy." She looks sad, right? Of course, you can empathize. Now, here is the second question. How do you feel looking at that child? 1. "I feel pleased." 2. "I am worried." You are worried, right? The reason that is possible is because your maternal instincts are functioning normally right now. Then, what would you do at the front door? You would see your child and hug her, right? You would quickly run over and say, "Hey, my daughter, what are you doing?" "Tell your dad about the work." And does he just talk? He'll solve the problem and even wipe your tears with a tissue. That isn't problem-solving ability, is it? However, there is an emotion that people struggle with immensely. It's anger. We feel rage, but no one likes anger. Second is anxiety. The future is uncertain, and no one wants to feel that anxiety. Third is depression. No matter how much you want to think positively, there are times when a person cannot help but become depressed in the face of a loss. When we are normal, everyone can empathize with themselves and others. But when you get angry and lose your temper, those two abilities disappear. That is the core point. But even if you lose your temper, people don't die—let's speak and act. But how do you act in that situation? This part is the highlight. It comes down to the amygdala. The amygdala makes us act in three ways. The first is fighting. For example, if I'm giving a presentation and the people in front of me keep asking, "When is this over?", I lose my temper completely. I want to pick a fight, saying, "Can't you see me?" Second is anxiety. So, you fly. Yes, you rush through your speech, say, "Okay, I'll wrap it up here for today," want to run away, and avoid meeting them. You start to feel like it. The third thing that happens is a phrase that comes along. You freeze up. Suddenly, your mind goes blank, and you zone out during an important presentation. This phenomenon occurs. How can a conversation take place in that situation? However, we distinguish six patterns of conversation that occur at this stage. The first is judgment: "I knew you would do that," or "Did you ever feel safe with me?" It is like that. Next is blame: "You can't handle it when you grow up, can you?" The third is coercion: "Let's do it while I'm still being nice." Then there is comparison: "How can you be worse than your younger sibling?" The fifth is taking things for granted: "Hey, is n't this basic?" or "How many years of organizational experience are there?" Then, you start to feel sorry. But guilt is a very peculiar feeling, so few people actually say "I'm sorry" when they feel guilty. So, what do people do when they feel sorry? They join in. They say, " Why did you make Mom angry? If you had done it right, I wouldn't be in this situation," and they join in and end it. So, if you speak out the six conversation patterns of automatic thoughts that pop up when you lose your temper, that conversation ends completely. Ending means ruin. It means ruin. We view the purpose of conversation as connection, not problem-solving, but most people think the purpose is problem-solving, not connection. But the feeling that the problem has been solved... People remember many truly awful days. Even if the conversation is over and the problem is resolved, if you turn around and think, "I never want to see that person again," then the conversation with that person has failed. However, even if the problem isn't perfectly resolved, if you find yourself saying, "Thank you for taking the time, sir. I'd like to see you again," we consider that conversation a success. Therefore, if we view the purpose of a conversation as connection, the six automatic conversational patterns that arise when you lose your temper—judgment, blame, coercion, comparison, and taking things for granted—are all poured out verbally. They say the conversation fails at that point. Here, a truly amazing human ability is distinguished: no matter how much you lose your temper, if you think that person is more powerful than you, these six automatic thought patterns only run through your mind internally. But if you think they are an easy target, they all come out of your mouth. That is why there are so many cases where the weaker, those with less power than you, become scapegoats. And then they say, " Oh, I have a hot temper," or "I'm just a bit of an honest person." Among those honest and hot-tempered people, I have never seen anyone get that kind of lash out at someone stronger than themselves. But why do we rarely see them? It is because they cannot survive in an organization for a long time. It is because they are suffering or... There are many cases where people around you hope you leave, and as a result, you drift apart and drift far, far away. When I upload videos or create content about conversation, the people who complain the most are family. How can we have truly sincere conversations within the family? What is really fascinating is that when I ask lovers or spouses to put themselves in the other person's shoes, they get so angry. They ask, " Why am I even thinking about that person?" It seems that the variables in conversation within relationships between married couples or long-term partners depend on their level of self-awareness. Let me give you an example. I was at a company a while ago for an 8-week workshop, and a teacher came in before class and said, " Teacher, I had a fight this morning." So I asked, "Why did you leave everything out?" She explained that it had rained yesterday, and when she woke up this morning and came out to the living room, the laundry was hanging out, but it smelled bad. Does that make sense? She threw the laundry around, angrily asking how they had done it to make it smell like this. What did her spouse say? They were dumbfounded, threw it back, and told her to get out. But as they drove back to work, they said they didn't understand why they were getting that angry. So, while I was talking to that person... I caught a shadow. When he was young, both his mother and father worked full-time. Whenever he left the house, he would see laundry hanging on the clothesline outside like this. He would pick one up from there, put it on, and go to school. But his favorite girl said, "Hey, doesn't something smell weird?" That became such a trauma for him that he used to carry two t-shirts in his bag even when exercising because he hated the smell. So, the moment he smelled that odor, he would get so angry that he yelled, "How could you do this?" The most important variables in communication between a married couple, a partner, or a loving lover are knowing one's own shadow and, secondly, whether that shadow has been shared. If that spouse had known that, they might have been able to understand a little bit why the other person was getting so angry. In conflicts between parents and children, this variable changes depending on how much the parents can adopt an attitude of putting themselves in the other person's shoes. This is because when the belief that a parent is right is too intense, the child's feelings do not come in easily. When one's own fear and anxiety are too great, asking "why" five times—how the child feels, why the child is acting that way—returns to the essence. As I delve into the five layers, most parents cry, saying they didn't know. I take the time to let them cry and ask them, "What is it that you really wanted to say to your child?" Then, they usually find what they truly wanted to say. At that moment, I also confirm that this person already had the ability to do so. I think relationships that last a long time are actually more painful and difficult. The moment you hear something, you might start thinking, "Do I have to listen to this for the rest of my life?" When talking to such people, do I need to change my way of thinking? The first step is to reveal your "shadow." As you talk, you can get a sense of things by observing your unconscious behavioral patterns. For example, like the person who got angry at their spouse that day—you did that with me—you need to go back that day and talk about it with your spouse. But talking about it is embarrassing, isn't it? They say it hurts their pride or makes them feel a bit petty. However, if we can reflect on the countless misunderstandings and the wounds we inflict on the most precious person in our lives because we didn't express those feelings, then you should try speaking up. One man said that he actually can't sleep with the door closed. So he always leaves the door open while sleeping, but during their honeymoon, his spouse kept closing the door as they came in. She said she could n't speak for three years. So, after thinking it over, she decided to talk. "Actually, when I open the door... the law... I don't know why." Her spouse, who was sitting with her, poured her a drink and said, "Let's talk." That is the part. My shadow, my pain. We don't talk about these things in social relationships, do we? But we can talk about them as much as we can with a loved one, a loving partner. I can explain why we need to do this biologically. When we experience a painful memory in childhood, it becomes trauma because it was n't released. So, how is that released? Even though it happened 20 or 30 years ago, just the act of saying, "Actually, this happened to me," brings a lot of relief. And secondly, there was a desire we wanted that was fundamentally hidden within the shadow. For example, if I were to explain it using laundry, it would be being acknowledged or loved. "Hey, it smells! Who is it? Go away!" A sense of belonging was so important, right? Let me tell you the two conclusions. That night, she went there and sat facing each other. After putting the kids to sleep, she said, "Honey, I'm sorry about what I did earlier. Uh, I went a bit too far." That's it. It probably won't resolve much. But seriously, it is a really embarrassing story. But as we were talking today, I realized something new. When I was little, I was wearing my clothes and it seems I smelled of sweat. My classmates used to tease me about it, and I think that really hurt me. That’s why I think I got a bit too angry today. If I just say, "Honey, I’m sorry," what else would I say? "Oh, you must have had such a hard time back then. They were too harsh." Then, the anger is released. On the other hand, what about lovers or couples with very high self-esteem? It’s completely different. These are people who are always looking at the fact that they have their own sun. There is no jealousy. I feel fully satisfied that my own self is so precious, so I am not more special than you. Regarding love, the scholar Scar 6 defined love as a companionship where two selves meet and can expand—that is, help each other grow. So, because I am precious, the other person looks precious to me as well. When the clouds are completely covering everything, it’s not just me who is in darkness; everything within my field of vision is bound to be dark. But when the sun rises brightly, it’s not just my vision that is bright; there is brightness in the other person as well. Therefore, there is no envy or jealousy towards each other, and this spouse or Couples of both sexes often experience feelings of inferiority. That is why we have the Persona Theory. It involves deciding who to choose; many people select someone who can make them stand out. For instance, one of my insecurities might be that I wasn't good at studying. If I am next to someone who is good at it, I can stand out as well. In a social context, being next to such a person might make me feel more intimidated, but it is a different story when it comes to a spouse or partner. It also means sincerely celebrating each other's growth. I conduct training for those getting promoted and for those who were passed over for promotion at organizations. I ask them: Is it easy to laugh with those who are smiling while you are smiling? Is it easy to cry with those who are smiling? They say that smiling with those who are smiling is extremely difficult. It is a very honest confession. It is hard to sincerely congratulate someone who is doing better than you. However, for couples with high self-esteem, even if things are n't going well for me, I am not considered precious. Even if I am struggling right now, if my partner is succeeding like that, it is a source of joy for me. If I think of their growth as one of my roles, there is nothing more joyful than that. Therefore, being with people who have high self-esteem creates tremendous synergy. There are people who find that incredibly difficult. That is why CEO Han confessed that he was happiest the day his older brother failed to get into Seoul National University. The reason for this was that their parents' conditional love had completely dominated the two brothers. Both the first and second children had the rightful privilege of growing up under their own sun, but the children rarely had the opportunity to see it because there was always comparison and evaluation. So, imagine I achieved something. I naturally expected a friend to congratulate me, but I felt their gaze was unusually cold that day. Would n't I not feel like they were a true friend? If I had a fairly strong relationship of trust with that person, I might ask, "Hey, I just told you this; what's with that look?" Isn't that the level required to be considered a friend? Actually, I had a very small but joyful experience related to my children. I told a friend who is married but childless, "Hey, my son did this and that today." That friend desperately wanted children but currently doesn't have any. After telling them, I worried, thinking, "Oh, I shouldn't have said that." But my friend responded in a very healthy way. "Honestly, I'm jealous and envious, but I congratulate you." He is a friend who has always been a very good source of stability for me, but sometimes... I admire that friend's honesty. And if they are a true friend, you should be able to ask, "Hey, I told you because I really wanted to be congratulated. What's with that look in your eyes? What were you thinking?" Rather than thinking it over alone, turning around to sulk, feeling hurt, and sending them off as an outcast, it might be better to at least check once. And even if that friend can't congratulate you because they are a little jealous, as someone who has something to be happy about, I can be a bit more forgiving, right? We all have times like that, don't we? When I was young, I grew up in very difficult financial circumstances. Who was the friend I really envied? It was someone who was good at drawing. I was so jealous of the kids with long straight hair going to art academies with their easels. When I looked at them, I would think, "Wow, they must be so lucky. They don't seem to have any worries." If that friend said they drew something well, I would sincerely add to it. Why is that possible? We all envy others, and living that way is just life. So, is it possible to figure out whether someone is a true friend or not through conversation? Yes, it is. If you are that worried about that friend, you just need to discuss it with them. For example, Han Jun and Park Jaehyun are friends, and Seokjun... I confided in Jaehyun, saying, "Jaehyun, something like this happened at my house," and he heard about it. Let's say there is a Jiyoung whom Seokjun doesn't know at all. I said to Jiyoung, "Hey, Seokjun has a friend. He says something like this happened to him. I'm telling you because I'm worried." Why would he go over there to worry about that? I showed my truly fragile and vulnerable side to someone I don't even know, but he went somewhere else to talk about it and shared his worries with that person. Sometimes, when people like that try to talk to me about someone else, I stop them. I say, "I'm sorry, but that person knows. You do n't have to tell me. If you're so worried, please give that person a call right now." So, keeping secrets and protecting that person's vulnerable side—I think that is the attitude a friend should have had the most. But you can't know that, can you? If someone is determined to deceive you, you have no choice but to be deceived. When we have a conversation, we have a human ability to sense nuances—we can tell whether someone is just saying it or speaking from the heart. Yes, so I think that kind of sensitivity is necessary, and verifying things with someone trustworthy is also very important. I... You might ask, "You went through something, you heard something like this, what do you think?" Regarding the most trustworthy person, the Director’s words—consistent from the beginning until now—show that the existence of that one person you can lean on for everything is incredibly important. That is how humans are born; humans are beings destined to die without someone to nurture them. Just as I was thinking about what would remain in human relationships if there were no love, I was returning from a business trip in Daejeon yesterday. However, as always, I have bad luck; I had to catch the train right away, so I could n't enter Sungsimdang on the second floor. Since I had an evening event yesterday, I ran to Daejeon Station, boarded the train, and made it to the platform, only to find the train delayed by five minutes due to snow. I observed the people around me; basically, everyone was carrying two shopping bags. If you think about it, did that person who stood in a long line in the cold winter to buy two bags of bread buy them to eat them all by themselves? No, that's not the case. What I saw was bread; what was contained within was unseen love. So, watching that, I wondered how they would converse while giving those bags to others. There would be people who just place them on the shelf and leave without saying a word; there would be those who simply say, "Eat this"; and there would be someone who says, "My dad bought this..." I bought it imagining my daughter eating it. That is love, isn't it? Fundamentally, humans live on love. This is the last question. How should one refuse? I think refusal is really important. I see it as "negotiation" rather than just "refusal." When there is an alternative, you guess the other person's needs and propose an alternative. That was the first concept mentioned earlier. The second is that when you have no alternative or think it isn't your business, you refuse, explain your own needs, and make a proposal. For example, there was a trainee in the past. He had signed up for two insurance policies, and exactly two days later, a friend he owed a great debt of gratitude contacted him asking him to sign up for insurance. He was in a very difficult position, but he could n't just ignore it. As a salaried employee, he decided to do exactly what he had learned. The instruction was to guess the other person's needs and propose an alternative, right? There are about 80 needs listed. Looking at them, he saw three needs: that help is important to this friend right now, that financial stability is important, and that achievement at his new company is important. So, he called that friend, refused, and asked, "It seems like you need to achieve something at your new place and are in a situation where you need help. Is that correct?" And the friend replied, "Yes, that's right." And did that friend expect that? He probably thought, "Please sign me up." But this person said, " Coincidentally, I signed up for two insurance policies just two days ago, so please let me know about those products. I owe you a debt, so I'll send this to various people I know. I'll try to find someone who needs it." The result might not be this dramatic, but he would certainly be grateful for this effort. The second story is about a trainee whose brother always asked to borrow money. He helped him for 16 years with his wife's permission. But one day, his wife dropped a bombshell. She said, "This isn't going to work anymore. If you lend money behind my back, be prepared to end things with me." It was n't a large sum of money, so he lent it to him without his spouse knowing, but he got caught. He asked, " How did it work if I had refused?" He said he regretted it. He believes that refusing was the right thing to do. So, if you could go back to that time, how should you refuse? I tell him to "redo it." We practice through conversation what should have been done back then. It involves clearly stating your needs and setting limits, saying, " Brother, my promise to your wife is important to me now. I don't think I can do this anymore." In reality, that person... It’s absolute chaos. A conversation with the spouse in this mess. Ah, this is also extremely important. The chaos has already started, so shouldn't we cover it up properly? In the 18 years I’ve been doing this work, not everything has ended beautifully. However, this was a really good case, and I told you to make sure you do two things. Go to your wife and clearly express your gratitude for the years gone by. And clearly express your apologies regarding this incident, but do not explain why you lent it to her this time. Tell her how much trust was shattered and how much emotional pain she must have suffered because of this action. But the wife let go of her feelings because of her spouse’s words expressing specific gratitude for the past years, rather than an apology. To those who are hurting right now because of the way someone close to them speaks, or those who feel guilty because they said something bad to someone close to them—if you could give me just one final piece of advice: When the lid is blown off, the thoughts that pop into your head—I’ve heard that speaking hastily ruins the conversation. So, if you ask how to properly handle this, most people think, "Yes, the problem is this..." Do you know what your problem is? It’s that you only look out for your own family. Your problem is... Do you know what it is? It means you are lazy. This kind of talk only leaves pain in each other's hearts. The more conversations like this there are, the more painful it becomes. However, the more conversations like this there are, the better. You know, I wish we had a relationship where we respect each other. I want to know more about you, I want to understand you. Yes, the problem is this, the important thing is this. If you change this, things will be much better. Because so many things are accomplished through conversation, what is said most often these days is that while money is very important in life, having a lot of money doesn't guarantee happiness, and having none doesn't guarantee unhappiness. However, when it comes to conversation, having a lot makes you happy, and having none makes you unhappy. We say we should reduce the cost of communication because we live in a busy world, but it seems we end up not even saying what absolutely needs to be said. So, I wholeheartedly agree that conversations should be truly rich, and even those useless stories—you know, the ones where you wonder, "Do I really have to say this?"—can sometimes be very necessary topics of conversation. To add one more thing, the key point when having a conversation is that if you keep expressing neurotic guilt to someone close to you, the listener suffers even more. You should cast aside neurotic guilt like "I was bad," "I was crazy," or "I'm hopeless." Instead, feel existential guilt and say, " Dad's actions were too much for you..." I think it is very important to apologize by saying, "I think I might have hurt you, so I am really sorry. I will act differently next time." Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, who developed Nonviolent Communication, said something like this: "All human speech falls into one of two categories: a request or gratitude. I have never heard human speech that falls outside these two categories." The words of criticism children make to us are requests—"Mom and Dad, what can you do for me?" "Please listen to what I need." "Just wait until you have a child like yourself." " Son, daughter, please try to understand Mom's feelings." If it is someone we hate, there is no need to make that effort, but if it is someone we truly love, we should step in and try to turn it around. We should think, "Is that a request? Try turning it around and seeing if it is gratitude." " Ah, what kind of expression was my mom using when she told me the whole story? Ah, it must be a request." "I hate you, Mom." That is our child's "Please." "Mom, please love me." If we just think that way, I think many troubles will decrease, and we will have fewer emotional struggles. So, for today's 'Knowledge In Guest,' we are joined by Director Park Jae-hyun of the Replus Human Research Institute to discuss being hurt by and inflicting hurt through conversation. I shared this. I sincerely hope that for everyone who watched today's video, no more unhappy things happen because of conversation, and that you find more happiness through conversation. See you next time.