The following podcast is a Deer Media production. Hi everyone, welcome back to the Real Stuff podcast and another episode of our sub series called Don't Hang Up, where I pick up my phone and I call loved ones and people in my real life and I urge them, please don't hang up while I ask them deeply personal questions and get them to open up about topics that likely make them uncomfortable. Today, we're calling my dad Jimmy Fank again. We called him last time, but I've got a lot of things to talk to him about. And I just want to give you a little bit of background before I dial him up. We're going to be talking about his family business, which is called the Think Baking Company. Before he was a radio guy, he was a bread guy. And actually, my whole life, I knew him as the bread man. My grandpa, actually, it was probably my great-grandpa. I'm going to let him explain who started what, but there was a bread factory in Long Island City. And I'm not talking, it wasn't like a bakery storefront. It was a factory that had vats of dough and they were pumping out rolls and loaves of bread. Literally, my whole childhood was spent taking papers from this bread factory and playing work with my sister where we would be at a fake cash register looking at papers that said, you know, I'm taking 10 loaves of rye bread, two sourdough, and three whole wheat because we were in the bread business. And my dad worked under his dad with his brother. And they were running this bread factory that was delivering loaves of bread and hot dog and hamburger rolls to all around the New York area. They were delivered to Yankee Stadium and hospitals. And my whole childhood was about bread. So ironic that I have celiac disease now because I'm a bread girl through and through. But I remember for bring your daughter to work day, we used to go to think baking and we would go inside. If you can imagine the smell of fresh bread baking. That's what my dad always smelled like because he lived inside this factory. And one of my favorite parts of my childhood was for show and tell. My dad's bakery would always make us these loaves of bread that were shaped like animals. And I have a distinctive memory of this lizard-shaped loaf of bread coming to my kindergarten classroom. So now I'm going to call him because all that glitters is not gold. And when you work with your family, there can be a lot of turmoil. So I'll let him tell it. >> Hello. >> Hi, Dad. >> Hi. >> Uh, don't hang up. But >> who is this again? I'm kidding. >> This is your daughter speaking. >> Okay. >> I have >> It's my daughter. >> I have the urge to talk to you live on the podcast. Welcome. You're you're live. >> I'm live. Okay. >> To talk to you about your family business and all that happened there. >> Okay. >> I did give a little bit of background about Fink Baking, but you could probably say it better. So, maybe you can give people a little log line, what the business was about, who owned it, where it came from, and then how you got involved, and then where it ended up. >> Okay. So, my great-grandfather and grandmother came here from Eastern Europe. I never knew them. They died before I was born, but they came in in the 1888 and they opened up a corner bakery in the section of Manhattan that was called German Town because they spoke German and that was in the east side in the 70s and 80s and 60s and they opened a corner bakery and after a period of time my grandfather who I knew uh decided that rather than have just a corner bake shop selling to the people who lived in the neighborhood that it might be better to build like a bread factory that could serve restaurants, hospitals, hotels, schools, and be sort of a wholesale bakery rather than a retail a small retail bakery. And that's what he did. And that bakery grew and grew and grew until in the 1960s they moved from a plant in Manhattan to an actual big bread factory, 300,000 square feet that was located in Queens. a big modern bakery, the one that you knew when you were very young. And uh we were making the bread for New York City restaurants, diners, hotels with Yankee Stadium, uh Metife Stadium, all of the you know Madison Square Garden, all the big arenas and sports venues and hospitals and hotels and the New York City public schools and would turned out to be a very big company. And the way it grew to be a big company, even though it was a family business, was we merged with other family businesses over the course of time. And what that meant is is that there were other partners in the business beside people in my family. When we took over a company, the people who owned that company came in and even though it was still called Think Bakery, they became part of the management of Think Bakery. And over time there were a lot of different companies that we took over or merged with. And um that's what sort of creates tension in a family business when there are other people who are not in the family but are still part of the business and owners of the business. I'm always on the hunt for products that not only taste good and promise to do something amazing for me, but that actually deliver what they promise. And Happy Mammoth has been that product for me. Their prebiotic collagen protein is not just about hair, skin, and nails. Although, yes, it does absolutely improve that, but it goes way deeper than that. So, this formula combines grass-fed collagen with prebiotic fibers that support your gut. And as we all know, when your gut is happy, it improves everything about your life. What I mean by this is less occasional gut issues, that steady energy, and also just that boost in your overall mood and well-being. 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Just go to happymamoth.com and use the code all caps one word real stuff at checkout. That's 15% off today at happymamoth.com with the code real stuff. So, in the late 1970s and early 1980s, my brother and I decided to buy out all of those people and take the company just private back to the Frink family itself. And we did that. And um I also was working on the radio starting in 1970. And so there was a time when I was working full-time at both places and it just couldn't keep going like that. So I sort of backed away from the ba the bakery uh as far as being a full-time employee there and was an owner, but I said I I guess you might put it that I just worked on the corporate level. I didn't go into the day-to-day operation of the business because I was really a radio personality in New York and I I I I couldn't do both. But even though I I still retained my ownership in the bakery, my real career was in the radio and um so family businesses can cause tension because there was a third brother. There is a third brother and he was among the people that we bought out also. So, and my dad my my dad passed away when I was 16 years old. And so, this was part of the thrust of buying out other people because actually the president of Frink Bakery was not a member of my family because he was one of the companies that we took over before my dad died. And when my dad died, he sort of took over the bakery. So that's why my brother and I decided to buy out everybody else and bring the company back to the Frink family. I'm the youngest brother. My middle brother and I are the ones who bought out our oldest brother. >> Okay. >> Or my oldest brother is 10 years older than me. >> And did your oldest brother want out? >> Uh I think he wanted out. There was tension. There was tension in the family. Family businesses sometimes cause tension in the family. My brother did not have a great relationship. My older brother did not have a great relationship with my mother and uh there was there was just tension in the family. I mean I was I'm the one who was always friendly with everybody, you know. I'm I was friendly with the guy who swept the floor the b at the bakery, you know, who was just a what you call a porter, you know. I'm friendly with everybody. Uh, so I never really lost my relationship with my older brother. Even though after we bought him out, he moved away. He actually was sort of in the hospitality business with his wife working for hotels in the Caribbean. >> That's fun. >> Yeah, it was fun. They, you know, we bought him out. He had a certain amount of money and he invested that money in a company that designed hotels. But I could just tell you that generally speaking, sometimes family businesses create tension in the family where one person wants to wants the business to do one thing, another person wants the business to do another and it creates it creates tension. was the idea that the three of you since you guys were three sons in the family that the three of you had one-third part ownership of the company until two of you bought the third out. >> Uh yeah. Well, it it it was actually after my mother passed away because my mother really became the owner of of my father's share of of the company. And it wasn't until my mother passed away that we all actually got our own shares of the company. >> And then after you and your middle brother bought out the older brother, your brother had a heart attack. >> My brother had a heart attack in uh like 1997. That's the time when I backed away from the radio business for a few years to help my brother. He didn't, you know, he he had a heart attack, but he survived. >> Yes. >> Um, >> I saw him last week. >> But yeah, and he's still around. Both of my brothers are still around. My older brother is, the oldest brother is 10 years older than me. So, he's 86 years old. and uh uh I I felt sort of a need to help out my brother in the in the business even though I wasn't really involved in the day-to-day operation of it. I was more on the what what I call the corporate level. Uh nevertheless, when he had a heart attack, it would just it it became necessary for me to back away from the radio business and help him in the in the bakery business. And because he had a heart attack and because it's very stressful to own a big company all by yourself, we decided that uh it was getting to be more and more difficult to do business in the city of New York as a big company with taxes and conad bills and gas, uh the price of gas because we had a hundred trucks, you know, and it just became more and more difficult. And so I sort of helped my brother wind down the company and uh we sold it to to somebody else. And it was so difficult to do business in the city of New York that the person we sold it to only remained in business for 18 months after we sold it and then he went out of business and the company was no more. that happened in 2001 right after 9/11 and that would made it even more difficult to do business. >> I feel like I was told as a kid that the person that you sold the bakery to didn't pay taxes and went to jail. Uh I don't think he went to jail, but he wasn't the reason why he went out of business is because he was pulling cash out of the company and rather than invest reinvesting in the company. The the company failed after 18 months. It's just, you know, you know, I I really wasn't involved on the corporate level at that point. So, I can't specifically say why, but I can say that I know that the price of gas was high, taxes were high, we had a big piece of land in Long Island City, we had two unions, the wages were high, and you know, I can remember a time when we there was a person people who worked there whose job was just to put bread in a in a carton. Their job was to take bread off a conveyor belt and put it in a carton. that person was making $25 an hour and that was back in the late 1990s and that was a lot. Yeah. So, and that's that's union labor and you know I belong to a union you know in in my radio business and I understand unions and but but it was difficult and uh so he went out of business. Luckily for us, when we sold the company, we did not sell the property, the building, only the business. So, we were basically the landlords for the company that we sold it to. And after he went out of business, we eventually sold the property, but the property itself was not caught up in the demise of the business, >> right? >> So, the property retains retained its value. If you're one of those people who has tried all of the health trends out there, but you still feel like your energy levels are just not where you want it to be, it might be time for you to look deeper. And what I mean by that is going down to the cellular level. And that's where Timelines longevity gummies come into play. 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So, I don't mean to put this on you if you didn't feel this way, and I hope this isn't a mean thing to ask, but >> when there is a family business that's passed down from three or four generations, and then you are part of the generation that ends it, that can't carry it on. >> Yeah. >> Did that make you feel anything? >> Yes, it makes me feel very sad. uh because I did my best, you know, I I went in front of the unions and sort of urged them to sort of become our partners and realize that that if they you know, if they wanted the company to continue and these 400 500 people who were working for us, if you want them to continue to have jobs, you're going to have to help us out. And they refused. So, you know, it it's it's sad because it was a legacy that I grew up in, you know, and you grew up in it, too. >> You know, when you were little, you came to the bakery and when I went when I was little, you know, I used to go to the bakery with my dad all the time. Um, pretty much always thought that I was going to go into the bakery business because I sort of got into the radio business as a fluke. Many people don't know, you know, that I sort of got my radio job just in error in a way. I called the radio station to make a request. I was connected to a vice president of ABC at the time. I knew a lot about music. I was very into music and he started asking me lots of questions about music and basically offered me a job and uh that sort of changed my career path all of a sudden. Uh, I had a summer job when I was in college at a radio station. I eventually did college radio. And when I got out of college, I actually when I was still in college, I continued to work at the radio station. I went to school in Washington DC and commuted back and forth to New York every weekend to keep my job in radio so that I would have it when I graduated from college. And as I as I told you before, I worked in the bakery and for the radio station for about seven seven years, working both jobs before I decided to leave the bakery behind, just work just be there on what what I would call the corporate level and be full-time, have a full-time career as a radio personality. >> I've heard you say family businesses are up. They can be like I wouldn't say they are, but I say they can be. >> Sorry. Actually, that that was that was the quote. It was family businesses can be up. This was a quote from an unseen episode of The Real Stuff. I actually, for people who don't know, I did a trailer of The Real Stuff or I did like a what's it called? The pilot episode with you and we recorded it before it was even called The Real Stuff. We recorded it as a sample and then I edited a little sizzle reel and that's how we got the show started. And you said in that family businesses can be up. And so I guess my question is what are what are your biggest takeaways and learnings for people out there who might be in a family business? How can you make it work or what would you say was the biggest demise? Well, I think the reason why they can be up is because as the generations grow, different members of the of the family have different priorities. My brother had a son. I didn't have any children for a little for a while. As we discussed in a previous podcast, um people come into the business who are your brother, your siblings, children, and uh uh I don't know if it could create tension because t people in in the family have different priorities. >> Are you saying that your brother who was involved with his son wanted to sort of split the business between you, him, and his son? >> Yeah. Yeah. And I and and his his son was my nephew. So, you know, and and and uh I don't know, it could just could create tension because everybody has different priorities. Let's let's look at it this way. Remember you mentioned before that we each had onethird of the company. >> You >> like me and my three brothers. >> That's right. We each had one third. But now when when we bought out my other brother and and my my nephew would come into the company, they had twothirds and I only had one third. But they were they're one family, >> right? >> You know, my my brother and his son are one family. I'm another family, but I only have one third. >> Yeah. >> Whereas before I still only had one third. We each had one third, right? But now one of the, you know, one of the partners sort of was a was was two people, >> right? That makes sense. >> In the same family, you know, in a different family than mine, it just creates tension. It creates tension because, you know, you might say that this guy's not pulling his sh fair share. And they might say that about me. They might say that about me because I'm working on the radio and I still have a big share of the company. And so I think it's just because in a family business, the different members of the family have different priorities. >> I'm glad we all got out of this unscathed and we still have a good relationship with both of your brothers and their families. And yeah, >> it seems like even though it was >> difficult to go through and of course, as you said, it's sad that you had to end the baking lineage and put an end to this hundred-year-old company, at least you guys are still close with each other as brothers. >> Yes. And uh through the demise of the company and our decision to hang on to the property and separate it from the from the business, that was one of the great things that we did do that uh that that was very important for the long-term success of my of my priorities. It's the reason why I could send three kids to college and and you guys don't have any college debt. >> Yes. because I'm sure there are people that you know that are really burdened even in their 30s with college debt >> and uh sure you know I worked two jobs for the entire time you know when you were young in order for for you guys to be able to do that. >> Yeah. Well, I've said it before, but thank you. I'll say it again. >> Well, I'm Well, I'm I'm glad that that's the way it is. Yeah. I'm glad that's the way. >> Me, too. Well, thanks for talking. Thanks for not hanging up and congrats on all of your success despite having to sell the legacy family business. >> Yeah, it's sad because I I still think uh people still remember it. Like if ever I put a post on Facebook of an old think bread truck, you know, there were all kinds of people that say, "Oh, I remember the trucks." or I remember the great rye bread or I remember going into this diner and you guys had the best bread and you know >> and also I actually sometimes get messages I think I've gotten a few messages from people who follow me who say my grandpa was a driver of a truck and so and so always remembered your dad to the point of what you were saying about how you were friends with everyone. I think that's been proven because people who worked in, you know, down to janitorial positions at the bakery knew you and loved you and still think about you. >> Yeah. And I still think about them. And I still think about them. >> Well, if you're out there and you worked at Fink Baking or you know anyone who did, Jimmy misses you. >> I do. I do. And I'm and I'm and I'm sorry that the businesses, you know, had had to go away. But, uh, I always think of things like when I was growing up, there was, you know, here's the the big TWWA hotel. It at Kennedy Airport, and there once was an airline called TWWA, and it was a big airline, and everybody flew it, and it went out of business. >> Things don't last forever. Things do not last forever. And I I can't tell you how many how many like stores that I used to shop at all the time that went away. And I'm sure the people who owned them were sad when they went away. And I was sad when my company went away, too. And I'm still sad about it. >> Well, I hope you don't, you know, carry too much of a burden of guilt about it because it's just the times have changed. >> Yeah. I think maybe if I had been more in control of it because as I said I only had I s sort of had a I was in a minority position because there were two other people. >> I might have done things a little bit differently but I didn't and I couldn't and uh that's the way it is. >> Well, let me know if you want to start a gluten-free bread factory with me. >> Actually, I think in my neighborhood we could use a really good bagel store. All right. Well, >> I got to drive pretty far to get a good bagel. You know, I live in a pretty big community and I and I can't find a good bagel. >> Okay. Well, there's a business. That's a business. >> There's a business. That's a business. If you want to go into the bagel business, Louie, let me know. >> All right. I'll see you at the bagel shop. >> Okay. >> All right. Thanks for talking. Love you. >> Love you. >> Bye. >> Thank you so much for tuning in to the Real Stuff Podcast. If you're liking the show, please head over to Apple or Spotify and leave us a written review. If you're watching on YouTube, drop a comment down below and join in the conversation. And if you're feeling called to be a guest on the show, visit lucyfink.com/apply and tell us your story. Thank you so much as always for sharing your time and attention with us, and we will see you next time on the Real Stuff Podcast. Please note that this episode may contain paid endorsements and advertisements for products and services. Individuals on the show may have a direct or indirect financial interest in products or services referred to in this