Because your father is an investor. You becoming an investor was your independent thought or was it a mimmetic desire? >> Francis Cho pulled me aside the first day I started the fund and he said, "You're either going to be an investor who I think is a rifle shooter or a shotgun." And I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "You'll either have a basket of stocks or you'll have a couple of big bets. >> How many stocks are there in your portfolio?" >> We'll say 14 stocks. >> And what's the percentage by distribution? >> So, right now it's 50% US, 30% India, 10% China. >> What did you buy in Europe? It's Elliot Hage. >> Where did you lose the maximum money? >> The most amount of money I've lost as a fund manager was buying Alibaba. Chinese regulator has three parts to their framework. The first is is it good for the people? Is it good for national interest? And then is it good for China's GDP? For the first time, I'm thinking of making an investment where I'll make it 5% and when it goes to 10%, I'll start selling because it's too risky. I'll tell you the investment. It's TSMC. If I make TSMC a 10% bet and let it ride, let's say it becomes 30%, the day China decides to take Taiwan, it goes to zero. You know, uh Coke Studio, you know, every season they come out with all the songs and everything. What I learned was when CCI entered Pakistan, Pepsi had control of cricket and Pakistan is a dry country. There's no alcohol or anything else. So Coke was finding a hard time to figure out how to embed itself in the culture. They push Coke through music and you know when we're listening to the songs in the you know Rahhat Fat Ali Khan is you know doing Afne. I'm not really thinking about Coke but you can see all the Coke branding and you're associating good feelings with Coke. I think my mom she said if I have a daughter I would want her to be raised in the US and not in India from her experience. I've heard more positive things being a girl an entrepreneur a woman in the US than in India. >> So you had million dollars in your bank account when you were 22. What's the best investing tool that you have used? This is I think the best way to learn how to invest. So in the US it's dataroma.com and in India it's trend line. >> Trend line. What do you think an American girl can learn from an Indian girl and vice versa. Tell me about your highest conviction bet at this point in time. >> My highest conviction bet is actually a private company. >> Don't tell about NS. >> No. >> No NC. >> Okay. >> N is my highest conviction bet. >> Tell me your second highest. >> My second highest conviction bet is in India. It's the I wanted to make 10% of the fund. Peter Lynch talked about had he bought eight different like brokerage operators or financial services companies in the US instead of doing what he did just investing in companies he would have done better. So I said okay let's make it an Indian financial services bet. >> What's the most ingrained memory that you had when you visited Charlie's house? >> I mean his house is like a movie. I think the one person who's maybe more private and quite brilliant is Pul Prasad. He puts all of his investments on his website. you having lunch with Warren and I remember just one thing that you mentioned that the most important thing that stayed with you from that lunch was the advice that the person you would choose to marry is the single most biggest decision in your life and that had most impact on you. >> I'm still not married so any young person wants to do something for me they should send me a stock pitch. >> Hi everyone, I'm your host Shivank and we are part of the 01 network by Zerodhub. Together we intend to bring you insights from the top thinkers in the field of entrepreneurship, technology and investing. >> So you had million dollars in your bank account when you were 22. Why is investing so fun? >> You know, you make money when you're correct. M. >> So, I think if you're someone with a little bit of an ego or you're someone who really likes to be right or you're someone who likes to theorize and play games and win, you're going to love investing. It's so fun. It's everything, right? It's the study of people, the study of history, economics. You're studying change over time. You're learning which businesses do really well, which ones don't do well. So if you're natural operator or a business, you know, like a CEO, it would translate well to investing, too. So I think >> if you're just someone who likes to win and to be right, you're you would love this. >> And I was uh listening to this thing, you know, where you were writing so many cold messages, cold emails to people that you wanted, you know, work with. >> So not emails. >> I sent mail. >> You sent mail. >> I sent mail. I wrote my stock pitch. I wrote a letter to each fund. I hands signed each one. Um, and I had my resume and I mailed it 750 funds. >> That's interesting. What made you not email and mail? >> Because email is easy to delete. People delete emails and if you send a mail and you to send it so that it looks like it's important. So, I didn't fold it. It was all flat in like a nice fancy envelope. >> So, it looks important and your goal is to get it past the secretary. So, I addressed it to the head of every fund and >> wrote confidential. >> No, I didn't write confidential. That would be a good thing. I should have done that. And I picked stamps. In the US, we have stamps um that are themed. So, you can have an Elvis stamp. >> Okay. >> Or Star Wars stamp or like a Mustang the car. Okay. So, I picked stamps, whatever was available at the post office that a 55year-old white man would like cuz I figured the average age of a fund manager in the US would be 55, right? And I was only going for funds between 2 billion and 10 billion in size. Any bit any larger, they would have formal recruiting. Any smaller, they wouldn't want to take an analyst. So, um that was the goal. And I of the 750 I think only 10% responded. 90% don't respond. And most of the responses say thanks but no thanks. A couple of them will do coffee chats. I had eight interviews and I got two job offers. So of the 750 1% interviewed me. >> I think that's a >> that's really good. >> That's really good. Yeah, >> that's really good. Uh but you mentioned you figured out what kind of stems would a 55year-old person would like. >> Yes. >> What was the thinking behind that? >> You well you want them to I mean you have very few opportunities in an envelope and five pieces of paper to impress somebody. >> True, >> right? So um I have a fun name. Monsoon is cool. So they might remember that. Then you know stamps you can have a little bit of fun with and it shows a bit of personality. Mhm. >> Um, so I took an advantage to do that and not do prepaid stamps with just a number. It's some color, right? It pops out. I picked a a a big flat envelope that um would get past the secretary. She might think or he, you know, it's mostly a woman. She might think, okay, we should get it through. And I did very fancy paper, thick paper. >> That's really smart. That's really smart. >> So I watched a lot of your interviews, right? And most of the interviews start with you having lunch with Warren. >> Yeah. >> Um and I remember this one thing that you mentioned that the most important thing that stayed with you from that lunch >> was the advice that the person >> you would choose to marry is the single most biggest decision in your life >> and that had most impact on you. >> Can you describe that impact to me? I'm still not married, >> so well, I hope I make a good choice, >> but it's it's helped in in dating where, you know, the it's technically the most important investment choice you make in your life, right? Because it's it's the person you wake up next to every day and go to sleep next to every day. So, that dictates your daily mood, right? You can't dislike this person. Um, it also would be probably the father of my children. So, it would have to be a good role model to small children throughout their life. And, you know, if anything bad happens to me, then they would be a single parent and that you would want them to do as good a job as you would do. So, I think um, and this applies to both men and women. The most important choice is who you marry. It I think it affects women a little bit more because and this is this is the unfortunate truth is that you know men in society are told to be they will be the primary um salary earners right income earners in the household for the most part and women um can they can supplement that. Um there are some women who earn more than their husbands. Um but for women who maybe don't have as many skills or weren't able to get the best education, marrying a man with a good education and a good job is it's very important for what your life will look like. So I think when Warren was saying that I was 12 and my sister was 11. Um, and I think it's it's easy for young girls to get excited about the wrong boys. Um, so I think it's important to be focused on the traits of like who who would you want to what traits would you want like your children to learn from? What traits do you want to learn from? >> And who is someone that treats you correct, you know, treats you well, treats you like a human and an equal. So, I think that's it's hard to find, especially as a woman with a a career. I find that all my female friends struggle with this to find the right man like that. And but on the on the flip side, all my male friends, they're um for them to date, they can usually find a like a a woman who supports them and whatnot, but um I don't think they struggle as much as my female friends in New York City. In San Francisco, the women have all the power cuz there's so few women to men. So there's more, you know, so the I think the boys have a harder time there finding good women. Oh >> yeah. >> When you evaluate company, there are certain kind of traits that you're looking at. When you are evaluating people uh in a situation where you have to figure out, you know, is this the situation is about marriage, right? >> Yes. >> How do you evaluate a person? >> Oh yes. Okay. So I think I think Buffett says the three things to look for in a um in an intelligent person um or who someone who will be successful is high integrity um high energy and high intellect. I think finding the combination of those three is pretty difficult. But the integrity actually comes, you can see pretty quickly how a person treats somebody, how they treat the people around them, what kind of integrity they have. Even the energy when you talk to them and how they converse with you, you can also tell, you know, is this a someone who's excited about their work and um commits a lot of time to it and you know, in their spare time, it's their favorite activity. Um, and then high intellect. That might be the maybe the little bit more difficult one because I think sometimes charismatic people um know what to say, right? They know what to say and how to talk. They know how to sell. And you can't really give everybody a quiz, you know, and figure out if they're smart or not. But I think highly intelligent people can talk about um basically two things. They can talk a lot about many topics or a lot about very few topics. And I think at the end of the day, you're looking for someone who's honest and knows themselves. So I think those are the three. >> Very interesting. >> Yeah. >> And you know, you mentioned that charismatic people. >> Mhm. >> Have a gift of G and they know what to say and when to say. >> Oh yeah. >> Uh and even when you meet promoters, there are some promoters who are very charismatic. You'll feel like okay this is he's the god. He knows everything. How do you evaluate that charisma? >> So, when I meet promoters, I'm on high alert because I know they're they're trying to convince me that their business is the best business and I should invest in their company. The good thing that happens um and and what I'm looking at in India primarily when I look at equities there is I'm trying to make sure that there's no fraud because in the US we we have rare cases of fraud but in India we have a lot of cases of fraud. Um so when I meet the promoter I don't know you get a weird feeling in your stomach. um you feel like you can't trust the person and it's hard to put into words exactly what it is. But there's this really nice book called Power Versus Force which which tells us that our subconscious knows when we're being lied to. We can't articulate it, but we get a funny feeling. Um and I have had these meetings with these funny feelings and I walk out the room and I think I don't know that just didn't feel right. Something felt wrong. And you can you know how to prompt the questions to test you know like how would they answer this and they might answer it not so bad when I walk out of the room what's most important in India is then you talk to your network so I'm I feel this is where I feel really blessed because of my father and because of my last um I worked at a fund in um in US that invested in India because of my network there I leveraged them so I asked them what do we think about this company I had this weird feeling um I don't know if I'm right or wrong. And they'll usually say, "Yeah, that was a fraud. I don't know why you took the meeting." So, so some and sometimes they'll say, "No, no, totally fine. Like, it's not a problem at all." And and they'll explain to me that like, "Oh, yeah, that guy may s seem a bit fishy, but it's he's a sound guy." Um, so I think for the most part, it's I have to leverage my network. I don't know for certain. But even if I feel funny, I won't make the investment. I I'll follow my gut. And I think the integrity is the integrity is really important because in the beginning someone might really impress you and you know you may buy the equity and you may own the investment and then two years they call you and they say something that just doesn't sit right then you exit you know then you then you exit the position because it's it in it takes um integrity is very important right it's the they may have had sound principles when you invested in their company and you like the promoter and you've done your due diligence but the story may change in 18 months in 24 months where they themselves were tested and they took a wrong choice. So it's important I think to always stay alert. Uh I took like a personality test when I was 19 or 20 and my skepticism was 90%. So I I think I just naturally find it hard to trust people, hard to trust promoters. So I'm always even when I make the investment, it's my favorite investment. I've owned it for years. I still will when I meet them again, I'm still skeptical. Yes. >> Is it uh is it very true for all female uh investors? >> I don't know. I only know two or three other female investors and I don't know if if they're as skeptical as I am or if it just if I'm naturally that way. I think I'm skeptical because I'm naturally curious >> and um I grew up reading Nancy Drew which is why the fund is called Drew Investments. So I and I've loved mysteries. I've I loved John Gisham novels. I'm I'm obsessed with investigative journalism. So I think I approach investing from a very skeptical lens and a lens where I'm always questioning and I think that just comes naturally to me. Other investors I talk to sometimes come more mathematically. They might come in with more rationality, but I come in with questions. You know, I don't understand this. Let's figure this out. Which gives you the which gives you a good picture. It's a great It's like um It's like when you're solving a puzzle. I love puzzles. I love doing thousand piece puzzles. I do them on my iPad. It's the same thing. You're putting pieces together. So, you have to ask questions to figure out and get the full color, full story. >> So, you started the fund at 25. >> Yes. >> So, this is very interesting to me. >> Yeah. >> Can you lay it down? >> Yeah. >> Let's say Okay, I want to wear this thinking head. They'll say there is a young girl. >> Yes. watching you. >> Yeah. >> Right. And in India also there are very less number of not only you know men also who started their fund under 30. >> Yes. >> I are you the youngest fund manager in the world? >> No no there's definitely people younger than me. >> Tell me a couple of names who started a fund you know younger than you. >> There's one friend of mine Alex Bosert. He started going to Warren Buffett's Bergkshire Hathaway meeting when he was 12 and he had been actively investing since then. Um, and I think he probably was 24 or 25 when he started too. Um, and I think he must be I don't want to get his age wrong, maybe 34 now. And so I had talked to him when I was 23 24 about starting and being young and convincing people. And um I think the one person who's maybe more private um and quite brilliant is Pulock Prasad. >> Yeah. >> And he doesn't you know he doesn't do as many public appearances but he puts all of his investments on his website. >> It's written the current and the diversity >> and basically said figure it out and and I love it. And he puts his exited positions whether they were good or bad. You also have to figure that out. I've met every single company that he owns and has owned and that was a that's a very fun exercise is um I would say aside from WNS and some of the blue chips the rest are all very Indian and they're I don't know how to explain it but it's it's like you're going to your uncle's house for chai when I meet the CFO or the CEO and and like you know Joti Labs UAL that is core to being Indian that you know and He I don't know. I maybe he knows that but I think he really picks businesses where and you feel very comfortable with every management team. I've never had a bad feeling with any of them. Maybe that's because I know Pulock has already invested when I visit them. But you feel very comfortable with uh with all those management teams. >> What's the most unique thing that you've found out about Pulk style of investing? I've read his book what I learned about investing from Darwin. But what have you find after meeting so many of his portfolio companies? >> They're all compounders. >> They are all you can he could go into a coma and the fund would uh produce very high rates of return. they are I mean they're they're core to the Indian um spirit you know um yeah and and they're they'll they'll compound with India and um and I think the macro trend that India will do well over the next you know 10 20 30 years is part of each one of those stories and the what happens is a lot of Indian companies have that but you know with ji it's like it's so core >> you can't like the white crisp like you know ka and the bunan is so core to being Indian you know it's never going to go away and other countries don't have that same cultural appreciation for like a white piece of laundry I don't know it just I think he he knows that very well >> if you were to pick one company out of his portfolio that you also share in your portfolio what are what would be >> oh I don't think we share anything >> okay >> that might be my mistake I think from his portfol I don't share anything. The fund I used to work at, Dalton Investments, we shared some investments with. >> But you like Pulik so much. You like, but you don't share any investments. Why is that? >> I think the valuations are too high now for me to buy. >> But I keep an eye on them. I like his investments. I like those companies. I think I think Indian valuations for companies can be a little bit higher. And yeah, I think I think I just I think I would buy them if they come down in price. Um and I maybe I think maybe earlier this year some of them have but I was just too busy looking at there was too many things to look at. Um but yeah I hope I share more names with him in the future. >> Tell us about this is Mr. Leelu right? You have had an >> the coolest. Yes. >> A lot of people don't know about him. >> Yeah. A lot of people maybe in India they don't know about him but in China he's famous. >> What have you learned from him during the interactions that you had? What's the craziest memory that you have with him? I mean, he's a anyone that's a friend of my father's is like an uncle to me. So, he's just he's he's a girl dad. He's a big cheerleader. Every when I when I was interning at an endowment, when I was interning in India, he always knew what I was up to. Um, and every time I'd see him, he'd compliment me and say, "That's so awesome that you're working on that." Um, and very encouraging. Um, when I became an analyst, he was very proud. He's like, "You're an analyst at like a pretty serious fun." guys. Yeah, thank you, Leelu. Um, and he's a billionaire, which is pretty awesome that he would give me that compliment. I think the one thing I've learned from Leelu, it's the same thing as Puluk. They do not sell. >> There are positions Leelu has bought 20 years ago, he has not sold. And it's probably the biggest difference they have to my dad where, you know, he'll exit positions and he'll he likes to put positions that are 10 10% of the fund. they'll, you know, they'll put a small position, they'll let it stay there, even if the fund gets so big, they'll let it sit. Um, and it becomes, you know, negligible to their performance, but they don't sell it. They keep it in the fund. Um, and I think I'm trying to do a little bit more of that. >> The reason for them to not to sell is also because they have so much money, >> right? They don't if they find a new opportunity, they don't need to get, you know, an exit from their previous investments to put in another >> opportunity, right? >> Yeah. But technically to make the high returns, you need concentrated bets, >> right? >> So, if you have a lot of little little positions, it it could pull down. >> It won't move the needle for us. >> Yeah. It it wouldn't it's not worth the time to monitor that position if it won't make move the needle. But he still keeps it. And, you know, it I like that. I don't know. I think it's something that's different from most other formal investors. Most most fund managers what they do is or most formal funds is they'll make a position 3 to 5% of the fund nothing more. Then once it becomes 10% they'll start selling and they'll never let it become more than 10%. Some funds go even further. They'll only buy at 2 and a half 3%. Once it gets to 5% they won't let it go beyond. They'll keep they'll sell to keep it under 5%. you are losing on a lot of compounding that you shouldn't be and they for them it's risk and they're mitigating it and they have like you know fancy clients that they can't lose too much money for but it's probably the opposite way that you should be investing and so for everything in my fund I tell my investors it's going to be five or 10% and we'll let it ride >> the for the first time I'm thinking of making an investment where I'll make it 5% and when it goes to 10% I'll start selling because it's too risky. This is the first time and uh I'll tell you the investment. It's uh TSMC and um I'm only thinking about it. I haven't made this investment yet. And my understanding of TSMC is if China takes Taiwan, >> TSMC will go to zero, right? So if I make TSMC a 10% bet and let it ride, let's say it becomes 30%. The day China decides to take Taiwan, it goes to zero. Okay. So, what I initially said was I'm not going to buy TSMC because I can't write that risk. I don't know >> when will happen. >> We don't know. Yeah. We don't know, right? Like nobody knows. But they keep saying they will take Taiwan. That's it's their mission, right? They want to take it. So, what I said was, okay, I think TSMC is incredible business. It's a compounder. I maybe I'm missing out by not investing in it. And I've tried to buy other chip makers. Nobody's as good as TSMC. That's just what it is. So I decided okay if I buy TSMC I'll buy it at 5%. When it becomes 10% I start selling. So I take I borrow from what those formal fund managers do. There's something to learn from everybody. Right? Then I said okay the day China takes Taiwan we just lose 10% of the fund at most that day and I can sleep I can sleep well at night knowing that. >> So you need comfort in >> you need to you need to sleep well at night. That's the most important thing. Yeah. >> And what is top of your head right now? So it's very interesting that you you started this fund and right now you're at 15 million. What's what's your vision with this and do you also see that you know sometimes uh compounding is easy when the base amount is low and it becomes hard when the amount become big. Is it true? Do you subscribe to this? Uh >> I think I'm not big enough to answer that question yet. Um but yeah technically once you start managing billions of dollars there's fewer things you can invest in. >> Mhm. Um, but I'm not the type of investor who because I'm small, I'm investing in small caps because they have big upside. I find the small caps, I don't know, a little bit I don't I don't have much comfort with them. Sometimes, you know, sometimes I'll I'll pick one or two if I really think it's a good company and it's really undervalued and the market doesn't understand and I'll move against the tide, but more often than not, I'm I'm drawn to the winners, the bigger guys who who eat everybody's lunch. um and just keep winning. I like, you know, I like m things that compound and there are some unknown companies that can compound at high rates of return over the next 20 years, but I find a lot of I also like the bigger companies, right? And I get a lot of criticism that I'm a small fund and why am I buying a large market cap company when you know the larger investors can't invest in these small small companies and do small arbitrage and make money and like I don't know. I like both. I like both a lot. But yeah, I think if you're Warren Buffett, there's very few things you can invest in. And if you're me, you can invest in anything, which I like. I can invest in anything I want. >> Tell me about your highest conviction bet at this point in time. >> My highest conviction bet is actually a private company. >> Don't tell about NSE. >> No. >> Okay. >> Nese is my highest conviction bet. >> Tell me your second highest con. >> My second highest conviction bet. Okay. My second highest conviction bet is in India. It's the financial services. >> So I wanted to make 10% of the fund eelise financial and I love eelise financial. I love ashes. I think he's an incredible operator. I think he's really good at take going from incubation to launching products and he's going to unlock a lot of value with all the seven eight businesses they run and IPO IPOing each one. So that's a business model I understand well um from a western investing mindset. I think he he's a smart entrepreneur. I did not want to take that much risk with the fund by putting 10% into it west because of you know the name is a little bit tainted in the Indian market. Um I think unfairly so I think Rajes does not deserve um that viewpoint but I also Peter Lynch talked about had he bought eight different >> um like brokerage operators or financial services companies in the US instead of doing what he did just investing in companies he would have done better. So I said okay let's make it an Indian financial services bet and I included HDFC multil oswall and 361 wealth asset management. I felt these were all highquality companies. I mean HTFC is a big large market cap but it's a incredible bet on the growth of India right it will do as India grows HTFC will grow and Motil Oswall is the brokerage right it's the it's the highest number of brokerage accounts in in India and then 361 wealth asset management is the wealth asset management for the ultra high net worth in India so I felt like okay with eel wise and these three other players I can make a 10% Indian financial services that like a bucket. I see it as one investment and I have to do homework on each one. Um but I think over the next 10 years all four will do really well. >> For for audience who does not know this. So your highest conviction bet right now is n that you say >> and if you want to understand about you can just go to value x 2025 you can see the thing. >> I talked about it. Yes. >> And I was you know lucky enough to be there in the room but I have two questions on that better. Okay. Uh number one is let's say if somebody watches this right now and he wants to or she wants to invest in NSE right now you'll get this unlisted share at around 2,300 rupees price. >> It's expensive. >> Yes. >> Are you willing to get in at this price? >> Yes. >> What makes you what makes you so bullish about this? >> Okay. So >> what makes you think that the stock right now is not overvalued? >> Um I mean you know two weeks ago was at 1,550 1600 rupees a share. So about 30 times earnings. Now it's shot up to 40 45 times earnings. Well the first is it trades at half the valuation of the Bombay stock exchange. Right? So not that the Bombay stock exchange have such a high valuation but it is half the valuation of the BSE. Part of that is because the regulator is coming in and driving more volume to BSE which is why BSE is growing. I actually think with that news NC should be going down but no everyone is excited and buying NYSE shares. Um the main reason why NYSE is a good investment is because it will never go away. >> It's like a toll bridge that >> it's a toll bridge but it's also like a cockroach. It will survive a nuclear war. Okay. So every single trade that happens in India has to go through Bombay stock exchange or national stock exchange. The regulator is very clear that they want two players that are more equal. So NSE will have volumes go down which is fine but what will happen in India over the next 10 years is we will see people moving into the stock market. Yeah into equity. I don't like how much of India is invested in derivatives market. I think the average Indian is not making the right decision by investing in the derivatives market. I think they're gambling and they're speculating. I think India did a study to see um I think the Indian government did a study to figure out what is happening the derivatives market in India and they saw the average Indian was losing money >> and that's why they came out with all these new >> regulations which I actually fully agree with. I think India is totally correct to make these rules. >> The so what we're so we should see short-term pressure on NSE and I actually think NC price should be coming down not going up but it's it's going up because people are excited about the IPO. NSE and BSE in the next 10 years are both incredible investments at whatever price right now. Okay, they will compound because India is going to compound because the financial market will compound and what's going to happen is foreign players will also enter India. So with gift city, they're going to come in and they're going to start trading through NSE and BSE and they're in in a tax advantage way. So you're going to see large institutions around the world investing in India and these will this is straight dollars to NSE and BSE both of them both will do really well. >> But you're saying it's still not overvalued. >> It's not overvalued because if it's growing at you know 20 30 40% over the next 10 years is peanuts. We're paying you know very few pennies for like a dollar of of future growth. Um and it's and you know it's it's going to be awesome. >> Tell me your highest conviction bet outside India. >> Oh, outside India >> because a lot of people don't understand you know things. So I understand India, right? I can't I can't say that I understand. So I try to understand India but I have very less understanding about the global markets and the emerging economies right and I'm trying to learn. So can you help me explaining your highest conviction bet outside India? >> Okay. >> And maybe open the doors for a lot of people. >> Okay. So the first investment I ever made, I was 16 years old and I saw Warren Buffett had purchased Visa. So Visa is a credit card company in the it's headquartered in the United States, but they actually make cards globally. Every and what I had read about um Visa was every time you swipe your card, they make a tiny percentage of that transaction just like NY every it's a toll bridge. It's another toll bridge and you know Buffett loves these toll bridges. So he had bought Visa. At the same time I saw Mastercard also as exact same business model almost the same market share at that time but it was cheaper than Visa. So I didn't know much at 16. You know I knew I knew about Moes because of my father and I knew I'd seen Buffett buy Visa and I had some babysitting money. So I purchased Mastercard. It did well. In three years it tripled. Okay. When you own a a stock, you learn more about it. So then I learned with credit card companies, Visa and Mastercard, they don't even pay for the card. The bank pays for the card. So Bank of America or JP Morgan Chase pays for the card. So it's 100% gross profit. There are almost no businesses in the world that are 100% gross profit. They don't even have to acquire the customer. The bank is doing that. They're just the security software. So that's why, you know, Microsoft and Network effects and all these tech companies have these awesome valuations because they have very high gross profit. Um what I learned then was American um Visa and Mastercard now trade at very high valuations and I saw American Express was trading much cheaper and American Express is what the very wealthy people in the United States use as their credit card and upper middle class and now middle class. Um but you basically have to have a pretty high income to have a American Express card. American Express pays for the card. It's not like Visa and Mastercard. So, they pay for the card and they pay they give their users um Hilton points, Marriott points, Emirates points, they fly them to, you know, wherever. And what they do is when I what I saw was for every dollar of profit, 60 cents of that goes back into um keeping the customer. So, it's different now, right? Right. So now it's only it's way less gross profit, but they're paying their customers 60 cents to stay. So you know, if you go to a concert, you'll get a better seat through American Express. If you want to go to a tennis match, you'll get a better seat through American Express. So they're creating a good experience for all the card holders, which builds a lot of goodwill. >> And these are all the wealthiest people. >> These are all the wealthiest people, right? Wealthy people in the in America. Um, and so American Express trades at a huge discount to Visa and Mastercard. And I think that's not right because they have a much better customer base. They all pay their, you know, payments on time. And um, what is it? And they're keeping them in the loop and they're they all stay in American Express. They don't leave. What happened in CO which is really cool is it went to seven times earnings. >> Insane. >> Okay. because everybody thought American Express is a travel card, right? And travel is done. So everything travel was undervalued. Okay? And so American Express was sold off widespread by the whole whole world. And if you think about it, for every dollar of profit, that's 60 cents goes to their customer. At this time now, it's 67 cents goes to their customer. So if they're paying 67 cents always and it's mostly going towards concerts, flights and hotels and in COVID none of that is happening right because everyone has to stay home and in the financial crisis if you study it people kept their credit cards open. They didn't close their credit cards. They kept even if they couldn't pay the bill they'd pay the minimum to keep it open. Okay. So we're going to see people continue to spend but not redeem for flights or travel or concerts. Okay. So now that 67 cents that they owe their customer for every dollar spent, the liability is gone. Okay. So this so now this is the interesting part. So they don't have to pay that 67 cents. It's now created much more cash for them. Okay. So they did a couple of things which I theorize. The first is they could now negotiate better deals with all the travel. Okay. They could get way better seats at a lower price to give to their card holders later when they needed to. Okay, which they did. The second thing is that they have a small business lending program. So they put they pumped more money into that which gave them a higher return on their investment. Okay, and then what happened is people kept spending. Not only that, they were spending like crazy in CO7 sitting at home online shopping. They were all buying stocks in the stock market. Everyone was bored doing whatever at home. Amazon. If you drove on the highway for an hour, you would pass 40 Amazon trucks in the United States because people were online shopping like crazy on their American Express card. So, what happened is MX grew at an exponential rate. It was actually the wrong investment that the market said. They thought, "Oh, travel card that means nobody's traveling." It was like, "No, this is a great opportunity for MX to grow themselves." And it's still undervalued. It's still in the teens. It's still a high conviction bet. It's one of Warren Buffett's biggest bets, too. He owns American Express, and it's an incredible company. So, it's a Yeah, it's one of my favorites. >> Why do you see people, you know, sometimes underestimating, you know, simplicity and overestimating complexity? Why do you see this thing happening? >> Oh, because people think that they're different and unique and that they can everyone's Einstein and they can reinvent the wheel. You should just clone the wheel. That I got lucky from my father. I learned just copy what very smart people do and do it perfectly and you'll do very well. >> What is one mental model of your father that you find some restraint in following? >> Oh wow. Some restraint and following. >> Uh none. >> None. >> I think he's totally correct about everything which I don't know if he'd like to hear or maybe he'd really like to hear but um I can't think there's anything he's been wrong about. The one thing we argue a lot about >> is the price to pay for stocks. So he likes to say I pay up for um companies and I like good companies so I'll pay up. And he he can't pay up. And then my critique of him is that because he can't pay up he picks companies that I think aren't as high quality um but they're cheaper so he gets a better return right in a shorter amount of time. Um but what both of us agree on is that we're looking for long-term compounders. Um, and a lot of people ask how we're different. Uh, I think our portfolios, I don't think they overlap more than 10% now. >> Really? >> Yeah. And maybe at most in the past it was 20 25%. Um, and what I like to say is that we're uh two artists trained in the same style of art with totally different paintings. Is this a conscious decision of yours to not to overlap your bets with him or >> It just happens that way. I love all his investments. I just I for I and there's one or two that I have bought. Um and sometimes when I find a company, I'll tell him about it and we'll talk about it and he and he what our agreement is if he finds it first and talks to me about it, I won't buy till he's done buying. If I find a company that I bring to him and he likes it, he'll buy after I'm done buying. So the person who brings it gets the better price or the first price. Sometimes the price goes down. So um that's our like handshake agreement. Um but yeah, we don't have much overlap. >> How do you think your investment what are certain things where you are very different that you have an edge on than him? >> I think I like quality. I really go for quality companies. So I bought Costco at 40 times earnings and that was the price because when I started the fund that was the price of Costco and I wanted Costco in the fund and I knew it would compound forever. Nobody would have bought Costco at that price who's a value investor. Um and there's a group of 30 value investors I hang out with once a year and they were making fun of me. All men, okay? All of me. All men. They were kind of poking fun of me and I just said like it's fine. like you know you can make fun and one investor said yeah but you had a really great return from it so maybe you were right to pay that price for it and I and I if I had told my father that time I was buying it he would have said you can't pay that price for that wait for it to come down I was like it's never going to come down so I think I I think I I will pay for quality if it means I don't have to think about it again and it can just compound in the fund I will do that >> so I have two questions which is very unique so think of an American girl. Okay. >> Okay. >> What comes to your mind when I say the word American girl? Describe me the qualities. >> Oh, of an American girl. Okay. >> Um, she probably played sports in high school. Um, she's independent. She's got a lot of friends. And uh, she's probably just a good person. >> Yeah. >> Perfect. Now think about this word when I'm going to say. >> Yes. >> What do you think about an Indian girl? Describe the three qualities. >> An Indian girl is really smart. She probably did not play sports in high school or it's not as common. Um she's probably a very family oriented person and um she probably has a really fun personality. >> What do you think an American girl can learn from an Indian girl and vice versa? An American girl can learn how to be family oriented from an Indian girl and an Indian girl can learn to be more selfish from an American girl. I think it's important for women in India to be more selfish. >> Why do you think so? >> I think where in India women are probably raised more to cater to the family a little bit more and they might lose sense of who they are or what makes them them. Um, and I think if you, you know, you graduate school, you get married young, like you don't have that much time to figure out who you are before you start a family. >> Mhm. >> And I think in the US and the major metro areas, women have that opportunity more than more than not, not always. >> The reason I ask is um, you know, your father was, you know, you know, had had his childhood in India and you had your childhood in America. >> Yes. uh what does that do to a person right of that archetype that was the reason I was very curious about >> yeah well I was raised in an Indian home in the US >> so I had a mix of the culture right so um I'm also very family oriented like most Indian girls are um but I'm also an independent thinker >> and I'm you know I challenge my father and I challenge my mother um and yeah I think I I think I grew up with both a little bit. Um I like to think I grew up with the best of both. But yeah, like in our home, you know, studies were the most important versus on my street that was not what was most important in most of the American girls homes. >> It was do your best, not be the best. >> Very interesting. Very interesting. >> Yeah. >> Tell me about what's the most fascinating factory that you have visited. >> Fascinating factory in India. >> Yeah. >> Oh, Prattab snacks in Indor. >> Okay. That was so fun because I like the corker and it was just it was the most fun. We got to watch how it was made. I love Indian snacks. There's nothing tastier than an Indian snack. Um even all my American friends love the taste of Indian snacks. The spice and the masala. It's so nice. So I think the I just had the most fun in that factory and they put those little one rupee two rupee balloons >> and they talked about and the marketing and how important it was for like in India for the kids to have a little toy or something. So I don't know that was the most fun. >> Do you still hold Prattabnacks? >> I actually never held Prattabnacks. So there's many factories and companies I visit that I don't invest in. >> Reason is >> we're learning right? I'm a student of the world. I meet all these companies and I learn about how they make money, how do they lose money, how they invest their money to make more money, how is it aligned to the fund manager and what comes from it is I build a better >> framework invest. Yeah. So and even what Buffett and Munger do is they read every day they would read about companies not with the point to invest but to learn. >> Most fascinating global company or global factories that you have visited. >> Oh uh Maai in China. I I know the story. Tell me another >> Oh, another factory. Well, in the US, I don't really visit factories in Turkey. Uh it would have been the Coca-Cola Coca-Cola bottler, which is um Coca-Cola is um and that was really cool because CCI in Turkey, you you know, so you know, uh Coke Studio. >> Yeah. >> Um you know, every season they come out with all the songs and everything. very good song. >> It's the best and we've you've grown up listening to it. It's the most it's the best study music, right? So through college, through high school, I used to listen to Coke Studio. When I was in CCI, we were watching the bottling and everything in um in Istanbul and it was cool. But what I learned was when CCI entered Pakistan, Pepsi had control of cricket and Pakistan is a dry country. There's no alcohol or anything else. So KO was finding a hard time to figure out how to embed itself in the culture and they picked music. >> Yeah. >> And that was, you know, they they push Coke through music and, you know, when we're listening to the songs and the, you know, Rahhat Fatal Khan is, >> you know, doing Afne, Afrin. I'm not really thinking about Coke, but you can see all the Coke branding and you're associating good feelings with Coke. Um, and I learned it was the CCI team in Turkey that had come up with that. >> Very interesting. So the reason they have coke studio >> was to promote the thing in Pakistan. >> Yes. To promote Coke in Pakistan. >> Very interesting. >> We just think we're listening to good music but you know it's to associate good feelings and good music with >> happiness and Yeah. Very interesting. Very interesting. Tell me what's the kindest thing that someone has done for you? I think the kindest thing would probably be uh my parents choosing to raise my sister and I in the US is probably the kindest thing they've done because they were deciding before they had kids whether they should move back to India and build a career there or stay in the US and build their career here. And you know they didn't come from family businesses that had a lot of money in India. So they would kind of be starting a fresh either place. And I think my mom said she said if I have a daughter I would want her to be raised in the US and not in India from her experience. And people have said some you know terrible things to me being a young woman um in both US and in India but I've heard more positive things being a girl an entrepreneur a woman in the US than in India. So I feel grateful that they made that choice 30 something years ago. >> And you would go ahead and raise your kids in US. >> Oh, I think I would raise my kids in I think in the US, but I also want to take them to India and to other countries to explore the world. But I think you know I grew up going to um rural India from the age of 10. >> So because of dua >> because of dua. So I felt like I had a really good feeling for what life in India was like too. Not for the middle class and the wealthy people but for the lowest class, right? And I I I've seen so many villages in India. I've been to so many homes um I don't even know if you can call them homes. They're so small. I feel like I've seen the real India extensively before I turned 18 that I think even many Indians in India have never seen. Right. >> Um so I feel grateful for that. I'm going to also give that to my children. Um but I I think I would feel I I hope my hope is that India changes so much in the next couple years that I feel comfortable raising my daughters there. >> I find it very interesting that you you know choose us. But help me understand just imagine a thinking activity. If your parents would have decided that we'll raise you know you in India what do you think how would your life would be different? >> I think I would have still um I don't think it would have changed who I am too much. Um I think my parents still would have been very encouraging, very business-minded. Um I think my dad would have still been a girl dad and I think my mom because my mom was an engineer. She was also one of like you know one girl out of a hundred men in a class. So she was a forward thinker. Um and she would have been a good coach even in India and I think I would have performed well. I think it would have been more likely for me to become an engineer or something in India because both my parents were engineers when this happened and my dad didn't become an investor till I was four. So or he was investing but he set up the funds when we were in the US and I was four years old and my sister was two. So we had already set up our life here. Um but I think if I had been in India, I think I still I I would have been uh a very different kind I would have been a different girl from most I think Indian girls. I think I would have probably done sports. Um I would I I always felt a need to be different from everyone around me growing up. I think maybe a lot of people did. So yeah, I think I don't know. >> Got it. >> It's a good Yeah. I don't know. It's a cool good question. I've never thought about it properly, >> but I think I would have still been independent and career minded. I think it just maybe I wouldn't have had as much support from the people around me that I have here. I mean, my whole community, all my teachers, everyone here was always supportive. >> And which is your favorite? >> Yes. >> Podcast of your father of Mona? >> Oh, the Sha Puri one. >> The recent one or the previous one? >> The previous one. I really like that one. Even the recent one is good, but the previous one I felt like it was the first time in a podcast people could see what he was really like. >> Mhm. >> You know, he has all his oneliners and zingers that catch you off guard. And I think he's a very playful person and I think it really came out in that podcast. >> Why do you think that came out in that podcast? >> I don't know that. I don't know. I think he just maybe something about Sean's question or Sean's energy with him that may worked well with him. Very interesting. Uh and what's the second best speech? I'll tell you I have watched every single speech of you know there are a lot of speeches and in every speech he will tell us tell tell some resource which is very interesting. So >> something he always tells some nice story >> nice story. Um and for example in last speech that I was watching he mentioned about this um you know speech of Charlie Mangar. Yes. >> Uh which is around 24 biases of human misjudgment. >> Yes. I just read that heard that you know at least thrice every every new thing he'll tell us about new book of course there is lot of repetition uh but which is your favorite speech >> oh I think he used to give it a long time ago it was about blue stamps >> oh >> you know which one this must be seven eight years ago >> it's it's on his uh channel also >> it's on his channel yeah but I think that one is really nice because it just talks about how you know incrementally these small small things happen and they had these few big purchases at Bergkshire. I like that one. And then um I mean he used to this one he gave to my high school but it was on the art of compounding. It's one of his first videos. He has this very nice slide um show and it's he quotes Swami um I I'm not going to mispronounce it. Viv Vive >> Vive Vive Vive it's very hard for me. Yes. >> No way. No way. >> Um and I think you know take one idea take it seriously devote yourself to it. These are these are very Indian principles and he makes it available for everybody. >> And also I think that in that video you know there's a very good background music of Slum Dog Milit. >> Yes, it was very nice to listen to. It >> was very nice. Yeah. >> Yes. And he has the chess >> the chess piece board. Yeah. >> Which Yeah. So those are probably my three favorites >> because you mentioned the chess piece thing. Um he mentions in that thing is that Warren Buffett is on the 18th uh square. >> Oh yeah. >> What square are you on? Oh my gosh. I'm on was it one, two? I don't know. I'm on I'm probably on square two. >> Okay. So, you've doubled your money twice. >> Yeah. I'm I'm very early in my career. >> Mhm. >> And what what happened for me is because, you know, because of my parents, they had created an account for my sister and I that you they put the maximum amount you can put every year that's taxfree and they let it compound. Um, and so it it had basically become about a million uh when I was 22. >> Wow. >> 22. >> Yes. And I did not want to touch it. And I was I was like, "This doesn't feel like mine." And and my dad kept both my parents kept saying, you know, it's there for you to do something. Um, and it's not enough for you to live off your rest of your life. So, go do something. Um and that was always that was even growing up that was always the point of that account. Um and I think I basically I'd set up my account to trade in India when I was working in India and I had only bought nifty50 $10,000 because I had that's what I had earned and I had put it there and I had saved it aside. When I left that job at at Dalton and I started working at um Coral Labs, I could finally invest it my own money and I did not consider that account to be my money. I always kept it in my mind mentally it's separate and you know I told my dad oh I you know I'll invest in these two Indian companies and I told him 10,000 10,000 each he said no this is where he's a girl dad he said no take the count and make the bet okay I said I can't like you know it's not mine it's yours and he said it's not mine it's for you to do something go play so the bets that I wanted to make 10 10 10,000 each I made 200 200 200,000 each and it did well the 1 million turned into like 2 and a half million. >> That's incred. What were the bets you made? >> It was uh wise. >> Okay. >> Um PMO and um I think Mao Thai was one of them, but I and I American Express. There were multiple companies I had invested in but the big bulk was Ele and Paramold that had done really well and that that's what really gave me the confidence to you know start the fund and um just start young and see what happens and and just just take a bet on myself >> because you were in this dilemma of you know not using the money that your father has saved for you. Yeah, >> I have lot of friends >> um which are born in very good family and which have this question you know. So for example there was this friend of mine who just graduated with me uh and he was like he wanted to visit Europe. >> Mhm. And I was like, you should definitely do this, right? And he was like, yeah, I know that I can afford to. I can go to Europe, but I don't feel like taking, you know, doing that on my father's money, so I'll probably delay this gratification and earn. And then, and my point was there, if you have a leverage, why don't you use that leverage? >> Yes. And if you're so cautious and if you're so conscious uh and you are appreciating this fact, you know, I like that you're appreciating this fact that you're understanding that this is not your money and your father is shaped for it, but why don't you leverage it? >> What will you say? What will you advise to a person like that who is facing the same dilemma that you were facing >> during that time? >> I still face it. Um okay. So I mean I view my money in two buckets. Okay. I have what they gave and then I have what I made. And what I've switched my mentality to is the initial amount they gave me is not from my good doing. Okay? It's not because I I haven't done anything to earn that other than winning the ovarian lottery and being, you know, um born into this family. What I've finally learned to give myself credit for is the gain I made. You know, I made the correct bets. I've also lost money on it. All that gain and loss above I consider to be mine. The one thing I do not do is I do not use that to pay for any expenses. So I don't allow it to pay for any trips with friends. I don't allow it I don't use it for any food or anything like that. All of that has to come from what I earn because that's really what it is, right? It should come from there. What I do use that account for is I use it to set up my funds. So in the US to set up a investment fund costs about $50,000 a year and after a couple years you can recoup the money back from the performance fees and um you can reimburse some accounting fees and whatnot. So I use it as startup money but I put the money back. So that that that account I make sure I don't touch it for anything other than for me to try new things um that I think would build my business. And that's for me. For people who, you know, want to travel to Europe and stuff, they I would tell them it's your personal comfort level. And if you feel guilty taking it, don't take it. You know, if you if you wanted to travel on your own money, travel on your own money. Way to make that money and travel. Um I think that's a good thing, you know. And I think um you want to protect that nest egg. Um so I've made it a point where that thing is as best as I can untouched. And what have you learned about money while growing around it and not through books? >> Oh, okay. So, what I've learned is um you know, if someone close to you needs something or you come into dire times, you use the money. You're not stingy. So, that comes from my family. So, my great uncle and aunt, anytime anyone in my family came into hard times, they were there to help. Um so like when my grandfather went bankrupt when my dad and uncle were in the US for college uh my great uncle stepped in and paid for everything and I spent 6 months living in Mumbai with my great uncle and great aunt and I talked to them about like why did you guys step up but nobody else in the family said and they basically said when we started our family and we had kids and we said you know we're just going to have two kids whether it's boy girl boy girl we'll have two children we'll take care of their expenses is anytime anyone in our family needs any help, we will help if we can. Um, and they did they and they're, you know, they've been married 50 years and they've done this dozens of times in my family. I've watched it each and every time. Sometimes they, you know, now my dad steps up when people in the family need something. If it would really help the family, he will help. And I think that's the one thing I've learned at home is don't, you know, help your family. Don't be stingy. Um, I think for things like education, you pay. You know, like your nieces and your nephews and your kids, you pay. If you can't pay, you pay. I think leaving young people with a large amount of debt is uh not right for a young person if someone in the family can pay for it. It's probably what I've learned from money that's not investing that I think is important. >> I also think the main purpose of money is to become independent. So, you're not dependent on anybody. So I think for women primarily, you know, having money is is very liberating. So I think these are the lessons I've learned. >> Mhm. >> And I'll learn more. Right. So that's for now. >> Tell me what is one problem in your life or business that you would pay a young person to solve for you. >> Yeah. I love reading stock pitches. I think I, you know, you always learn something from it. So, I think if any young person wants to do something for me, they should they should send me a stock pitch and I try my best to always give feedback. >> Um, whether I agree or disagree, I'll always send back feedback. So, that's what I can do for them, but I wouldn't pay for that. I think that's just it's fun to learn. >> So, I like I don't know what I would pay for. I do I do >> I do everything myself. >> Uh, I do all my operations myself. All my like legal work I deal with my legal team by myself. Um yeah. So I think for the most part I >> Got it. >> Yeah. I do everything. Yeah. >> What's the best investing tool that you have used? >> The best investing tool I've used. Okay. So this is I think the best way to learn how to invest. So in the US it's dataroma.com and in India it's trend line. >> Trend line. You see the best portfolio. >> This is the best. And so what I've done and I think anybody can do and I think the best age to start is like 19. I think 16 you can start too but maybe in college is the best time. And what you do is you study what the best investors own. Then you go to value picker or valueinvestors.com and you read why is it a good investment and that basically gives you a good idea of what that investor is thinking. Now everything's changed with AI. You can ask chat TBT why did um you know Warren Buffett buy American Express in this year and it'll explain exactly why. It'll tell you about the crisis and the price he got it at and what he was able to do and it's amazing. It's an amazing tool and if you can prompt it properly it can probably do it really well and you can upload documents and it'll tell you what it's saying and it's incredible the speed you can learn at now versus 3 years ago. Literally the whole thing has changed. So I think anyone can be a really good investor. I think the best tool is to look at what the great are buying and why they're buying it. >> Is there a specific website that is very underrated but it helps you a lot. The context for this question is >> yes >> as a fund manager >> you have access to so many things that a retail person or a young people does not have. >> What are certain those things that you have a access to? >> Okay. Yeah. >> That you believe are so powerful that a young person should work hard to subscribe to that. >> Yes. So, you know what's funny is I don't have a Bloomberg. >> Mhm. >> Um, and I don't use any of of those. I just got Alpha Sense, which is expensive. It's $14,000 a year. I don't know if I'll renew because I get the same I get a better experience on Google >> and annual reports. And that's what I love so much about public equity investing is that all the resources you need are available. They're not behind a paid wall. You don't have to pay, you know, $100,000 a year for a license. You can find everything online and you just have to use your brain, right? Your brain is the most expensive tool. So, I stand by that. I think those are the, you know, everything that's available for free is the best. But I think with AI and you can do a lot of free queries, you can learn, you can, you can understand it better. Um, but I do like Alpha Sense. Um, I just don't know if I'll ever renew. That's the one thing I have that I pay for that is expensive and that maybe you want to work hard for. But I don't know. With all my investing, all my time is on Google. >> What's your favorite Korean drama? >> My favorite Korean drama. >> Uh, it's probably the first one I watched when I was in seventh grade. >> It's seventh standard. It's uh, Boys Over Flowers. >> Why do you like that? >> I don't know. I think it was just juicy gossip and I I can't even remember the plot if it was rich boy, poor girl. It's like Bollywood, you know, it's the exact same thing. >> Very interesting. And uh let's do a mental exercise again. >> Yes. >> Let's say a genie comes to you. >> Okay. >> And ask you what is something that you really want but you're not getting it. And whatever you ask that genie will be given. What would you ask? >> I I think I live a life of total privilege. I don't think there's anything more I could wish for. >> Got it. Yeah. >> Tell me a mental model that you have recently picked up in life which has either improved your clarity of thinking >> or your quality of life. >> Exercise every day. >> That's cuz that's improved cuz what I didn't I didn't really play sports in high school and in college I maybe went to the gym very rarely. >> Mhm. >> After college my first two jobs I was too busy to work out every day. I could maybe work out once or twice a week. What's changed for me now because I manage the fund and I'm not trading very often is I can work out four days a week, five days a week. Um I can work out every day of the week if I want to and if I do that frequently my clarity of mind is very high. Um the other thing I did after college is I quit drinking. I'm basically sober. That also gives me very strong clarity of mind. I think I've been maybe for the last six, seven years doing this where my the most important things that I preserve and maintain my clarity of thinking. And so what's happened is is that if there are people in my life that I'm friends with or I feel like they make things unclear for me or I'm doubtful, then I actually remove them as friends. I still, you know, I'll always be there for them, but I just don't talk to them as often. Um, same thing with alcohol and drugs and with with yeah people and and you know social activities. I only pick the ones that improve my clarity of mind. Even with the trips I I used to go on all kinds of trips with friends all the time. Now my only trips are work trips and weddings cuz everybody in my life is getting married. So I'll go to a lot of weddings because it's for people I care about. Um but if I don't care about that person, I don't go to their wedding. So I it's I think that comes from munger where and I think I probably grown up with my my parents saying only surround yourself with good people whatever but I only started taking it seriously more recently where I started to think this is someone that should not be in your life cuz they you know they're they're not acting at the highest levels of integrity. You wouldn't be doing the things that they're doing. So don't reduce your time with them. And with the people who you know live their life the way you want to live your life you increase your time with those people. So I think that's a powerful more recent thing I've been doing >> and you know this is one thing I went to the Omaha thing this time and he mentioned war in meshion I think thrice that people that you will meet in life will change your direction and you have to be very very cautious about people that you surround yourself with >> when you meet someone right how do you decide or it's a very slow and conscious decision over multiple interaction >> to decide whether you want this person's affinity or you know presence in your life or how do you decide that? How do you decide? What's the thinking behind whether you would like to surround yourself with this guy or not or this woman or not? What do you think about that? >> So, everybody gets the benefit of doubt in the beginning. >> Mhm. >> And if they mess up, they get a pass. The first time it's okay. The second time, especially if it's the same thing, then you know it's my fault. I then I and I'm I'm pretty clear with them. I tell them like, "Listen, I don't I because of this reason I can't spend that much time with you. I don't think you're horrible. I just don't want to spend that much time." And they're usually surprised. Um cuz I don't think most people my age or around the world are doing that. So that's how I decide to not. And then with the people in my life, you know, you have to be observant and you'll get you'll see the people who are making choices that you're astounded by and you're hearing things that they're doing that are just brilliant. Um, so you'll you'll reach out to them more. You know, I tell them, "Hey, let's get coffee. Let's go on a walk. Um, let's like, you know, let's go hang out." Like if I see them somewhere, I'll like make sure to spend extra time to them or take the time to learn more. And then what might happen is after like years that person may not reciprocate or they might make a couple of choices that you don't agree with. So then you again make an adjustment. So people change um how they are and but I think finding people that are well principled um is hard >> because of your father. Your father had some great you know has have some great relationship and friendship with the smartest people in the world of investing. >> What have you learned about relationship building from your father? >> Yes. You know I think a lot of people think he learned how to invest because he was around them. is not true. For the first 15 20 years of the fund, he or of his professional career, he didn't have Mer and you know Buffett in um that were accessible to him. You know, he he would send them letters and hope that they would respond. Um he became friends with them later, right? Um so I think that's the first thing. said what I've learned from him about relationship building is you should never expect anything from anyone but you should give something to everyone right and I think that's the best way to live your life is to not expect anything and to just give what I've noticed that some people appreciate that and will you know return the favor and some people just think oh like yeah I deserve this and and not return the favor but in relationship building it's important not to expect anything. >> And when you were attending a lot of these, you know, meetings with your father, what were certain things you were trying to give to a person who is like thousand times or maybe 100 times wealthier than you in terms of money and knowledge? >> If I'm tagging along with my father, I am quietly observing. I don't speak too much. They may ask me something and I answer, you know, very politely, but uh I acknowledge why I'm in the room. I'm not in the room because of my own. I'm in the room because I'm his kid. So, I don't really ask much. I'm just I'm just blessed to be able to learn. Um that's it. Yeah. I don't I don't think I um ask anything or try to learn anything that um he isn't already asking himself. Sometimes though when they ask him something and you know he might be humble, I'll give more clarity. I'll explain things a little bit better. um usually to compliment him, but um yeah, like I think someone once asked my dad um about, you know, running a nonprofit, how do you hire the right people? Um or how do you incentivize the right people? He and he says it's very easy. You know, they know how to do it. And this guy responds, no, they don't. They don't know how to do it. And then I stepped in. I said he doesn't realize it, but he says no to everything. Um, and he's very dedicated to the one purpose DuNa has and anything extra that's off topic he just says no to. So, you know, I'll clarify if he doesn't know what he's doing in that exact scenario, but for the most part, I'll I'll, you know, I'll keep quiet and just take in as much as I can. >> You know, a lot of people and investors talk about circle of competence. M >> um and you take time to build that circle of competence but as a young person how have you built first help us understand your circle of competence and how have you built that over the years. Yeah, the circle of competence is really important. When you're young, you want to learn as much as you can to build your circle of competence. But what happens is there's things you naturally understand better than others. So, as a woman, I love to shop. So, I know a lot about consumer brands and I know a lot about retail. I know a lot about how women think, right? Most male investors don't know anything about this unless they observe their wives and they've they've honestly mentioned this for the most part. So, um, for example, my father says he doesn't understand retail. Okay? And I'll tell him and he thinks all retail is bad. I'll tell him most retail is bad, but there's some retail that provides something for the consumer that you don't understand that I understand um that's different. So, like for example, um like Sephora is owned by >> LVMH. >> LVMH. And what happens is if I walk into Sephora, I will basically black out and spend $500. I can't help it, okay? Because each little thing is, you know, $30, $40, okay? And it just adds up quickly. So, someone had asked in a value investing group chat, "How come at 11:00 a.m. Sephora is full, but Swatch is empty?" And I said, "It's obvious, right? To me, it's obvious." I said, "Sphora offers skincare, makeup, hair care, perfume. You might, as a woman, you'll probably buy um makeup. We have what, seven, eight items, right? Mascara, eyeliner, foundation, concealer, lipstick, rouge, everything. It goes on." Oh my god. >> You might be restocking one of those seven once a year or you you would and so what happens is you end up going in pretty often for hair. If you have long long thick hair, you probably go through a bottle of shampoo and conditioner in 6 weeks. >> Okay? >> So that sends you also into Sephora again frequently. Then for skin care, skincare and hair care run much faster down than makeup. Makeup is harder to use unless you're wearing every day. A a woman between the age of 25 to 65 probably goes to Sephora two to four times a year. Okay? And each time they might be picking up two to four items, right? Average price for item is $40, $50. They're going to spend $800 a year. A man who's buying a watch, unless he's a true watch enthusiast, will maybe When's the last time you bought a watch? M I bought this one and after I think I've only bought a watch twice in my life. >> See? Yeah. >> And how much was each watch? >> This was the costiest watch. >> Yes. >> Yeah. The Apple watch. >> The the watch that I had before was gifted to me by my parents. Never bought. I The first time I bought a watch was was to gift someone and that was like uh $200. >> Yeah. >> Uh and I was very young so I just wanted to gift someone something. So, >> so it's a the watch for a man is a much more infrequent purchase than beauty for a woman. >> I know that because I'm a woman. I know how much I shop and I see my friends shopping. We walk around soho on a Saturday. It we're just trying to stop each other from spending. It's the hardest thing. But we have so much fun. Um so I think my your circle of competence comes from your natural interest, >> right? And the things you understand well. You have to develop that further. And as you study other companies and other managers and what they buy, your circle of competence grows. But there's going to be points you hit where you just don't understand it. Okay? And you may try to understand it and you may think you understand it, but then you get burned and something bad happens, right? So you also you don't know the limits till you try of where it reaches. And then when you mess up, you probably learn a lot. So your competence grows. >> You mentioned a very interesting line that as women you understand certain things that man does not. >> Yes. >> What do you think? What is something >> that a male investor does not understand which you do? >> I have two parts to this question. Number one about the world and number two about women. >> Well, I think because men have ruled the world for so long, we've had many wars. >> Okay. >> And we have borders drawn, >> all kind of nonsense. Okay. If women ruled the world, it would be no borders. It would be probably totally socialistic and it would be an incredible booming economy. Um, and it wouldn't even really be, I think, so much of an economy as much as just like a booming society. You know, pe like women do things for other people, for their families, for their friends. We're we provide, right? Um, we're very nurturing and we provide think these things. So I think if women rule the world, it would be a beautiful world, you know. Um, and if the rule the world is frankly just ruled by men right now, and it it probably will be unfortunately for some time. I think that's what men probably don't understand about women is that we would probably be better and more fair leaders than them um if they just gave us the chance. So that's about the world, right? Kind of. And then I think this it applies to what men don't understand about women. I think women as investors are um probably have a stronger survivability mentality. Um and this actually goes to you know the microloans in India. >> Yeah. The consumer deriv. >> Yeah. Like like um when they do you know like lending is how you really build an economy right? >> Um and how you enable people to build equity. So India has multiple companies that do this where you know they go into the villages they give a group of 10 women a 30 $40 loan each and then they collect small portions of that every week and they make that payment as a group together right they tried that with men but men just went and you know use it on booze or whatnot. Okay. Women at the, you know, at the poorest levels of society have a very strong sense of they have strong survival skills. Men don't have good survival skills. Okay? Women know how we live longer. We're more careful. We're more patient. We think with a longer mindset. Men think about tomorrow. Women think about next year. Okay? So, I think that's one difference between the two genders that maybe men don't understand. Um, and I think the male investors who have listened to their wives and bought the luxury brands and have done well are smart men. I' I've noticed there's a handful that have done this and have quoted it. I think they see their credit card statements going towards Louis Vuitton and Dior and they realize, oh, LVMH is a good stock. So, >> and you still hold that? >> I still hold that. Yes. >> Tell me, we you've spoken about lot of great successes, right? Tell me where did you lose the maximum money? >> Oh, the most amount of money I lost as a fund manager was buying Alibaba. >> Okay. >> And the couple of mistakes I made was the first I saw that because Charlie Mer bought it, I bought it, which is wrong. You should always do your own homework. Okay, I also did do some homework. The second thing is I realized that you know the Chinese regulator at that time was chasing Jackma around. Okay, it was a bit of a witch hunt and I think I came at it too much of a western lens maybe even an Indian investing lens. I just did not think the regulator I didn't understand fully how the Chinese regulator worked and frankly the pride that they have. Okay. Um so that was the second mistake. The third mistake is I I've spent some time in China, but I haven't spent significant time in China. So, what I really should have done is gone and spent a lot of time in China before I bought the company. So, those are that was a mistake. I lost a lot of money on it. I um sold the position at a loss. Um and I was and the one good thing I did about it is I was honest with my investors about it. And most of my investors are also big Munger fans and also owned a lot of Alibaba. And what I told them was if Alibaba was my in my personal account, I would have kept it. But because Alibaba was in is in the fund and my job is to make you money. You all of you already have Alibaba, we're not going to own Alibaba. You that doesn't mean you should sell it, but I'm going to sell it and I'm going to find something better to make your money back for you. >> Did you also had this dilemma? Okay, the Alibaba is down right now, but it'll come back at some point. So I I won't cut los cut cut my luces. >> I thought about that many times. I held Alibaba through losses for a long time and it was you know there I mean there were multiple quarters. I said okay it it will come back. It's still undervalued. We'll keep going. I sold it maybe like a year or two ago. I don't even remember when but I sold it at a loss. I also owned it in my personal account before I started the fund. Lost it there too. So I lost some sign significant money on Alibaba. But the best thing is that when you lose a lot of money, you learn a lot of lessons and I think it's um you learn so much about yourself and you learn so much better for next time. >> What did you learn about yourself by that loss? >> Oh, I learned that I am a long-term investor because I and I learned I have a really high pain tolerance and I didn't sell because we had lost a lot of money. I sold because I realized I realized how the regulator in China finally worked. I realized that this investment won't turn around for a long time. I actually didn't even know if it ever would. And I think what happened with Deep Seek and Alibaba coming back, we could have never predicted. So I think the reason Alibaba came back, nobody could have foreseen. Um so >> but what did you end up learning about the Chinese regulators and how has that learning helped you? So yeah, so I I knew this before I invested in China too that the Chinese regulator has three parts to their framework. The first is is it good for the people? Is it good for national interest >> and will it keep them in the >> yeah like does it further China and then does is it good for China's GDP? These are three things they care about. I thought Alibaba passed those three metrics. I think there is because he was negatively speaking about the Chinese government. It's it violates the national interest because it he was on a big tech stage not being appreciative of his government. Um which is probably not the right thing to do in China. >> Which is your favorite country to invest in apart from India? >> India. Uh you know I love I love America. I love the United States. I grew up here. I know everything about being I'm really more American than anything. Um it's the land of freedom. It's the it's the free capital of the world. >> You have checks and balances in place. Um and I think it's a beautiful system. Um >> so I love it. I love it here and I love investing here and this is where I learned to invest. >> How many stocks are there in your portfolio? >> Technically 14 but I view it as 10. >> Why? Because of the financial >> services. Yes. >> Very interesting. >> How many of these 10 14 stocks are there in India and are there outside India? I think. >> Yeah. So of the we'll say 14 stocks I think seven in India and five in the US. >> Majority of your portfolio is in India. >> No, majority is in the US. >> Okay. And what's the percentage wise distribution? >> So right now it's uh 50% US, 30% India, 10% China. Okay. >> I went back to China. Okay. >> And 5% 5% um Europe. >> What did you buy in Europe? >> It's LVMH. >> Okay. And what did you buy in China? >> We won't I can't disclose that one yet. >> Reason >> um >> in in the spirit of Ben Graham. >> In the spirit of Ben Graham. The reason what do you mean? Sorry. >> So you know you know Ben Graham used to share all his current >> Yeah. >> thing and you used to discuss in the class. >> Yes. >> Uh so >> yeah. So the so the Chinese company I picked uh I can talk about it vaguely. It's something that would do well in a high tariff environment. >> Okay. >> And it's an incredible Chinese company that will do well for a long time, but it's something that does not export to the US at all. >> Is it the alcohol company that you're talking about? >> It's not the alcohol company. >> Okay. Okay. Very interesting. >> Yeah. That I own a little bit in my personal account. I don't own that in the fund. Maai. >> Okay. >> Yeah. What's your favorite cafe in New York? >> My favorite cafe in New York is closed. It's called Cafe Lo and it was in the movie You've Got Mail and when I was 12 and I came for the Buffet lunch. Guy took my sister and I and my father to this cafe. So, every time I'd visit New York, I'd always come see this cafe, but when I moved here, they were closed for through COVID and they never were able to reopen. But it's a it's a very famous cafe. Um, it's been in a couple movies. Um, and it's great, but the coffee the cafe I like now that I get my coffee at is there's two. There's a it's a chain. It's called Ground Central. They have really good coffee. And the other is it's called Ralph's, but it's actually Ralph Lauren, the designer company's coffee shop. So, I would say those are the two tastiest coffees we have. If a young investor is visiting New York for the first time, what would you recommend him to do in New York? >> Well, he should he should send me a stock pitch. Okay. >> And if it's a good stock pitch, I'll take him for coffee and we can chat. >> Um, but I think in New York um I mean I love the museums. I love the natural history museum on the upper west side. I also love the Met on the Upper East Side. They have this beautiful exhibit on ancient Egypt that it's gorgeous at night. Um I think it's just it's so beautiful. Uh I would say the best thing to do in New York is to walk everywhere. It's taken the city. I think it people would feel it feels like a >> like a Mumbai, you know. Um I would try the best pizza which is um Lucallis's in Brooklyn. >> Okay. >> But it's a really long line. >> Okay. So, you have to go at like 2:00 p.m. You stand in line for 3 hours. >> Really? >> 5:00 p.m. they give you a time to come back to eat, which is usually at like 11:00 p.m. >> This is a very inefficient place. >> Very efficient. But in those gaps of time, you know, you can talk to a New Yorker in line and then between 5:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m. you can go explore that part of Brooklyn and take it in. So, I think all the best things in New York have a really long line. And I mean, we have amazing food, so I would eat all the food. Do you think there can be a business model around solving for these cues? >> Yeah, there are. >> There are people hire it's called like a task rabbit to stand and give them the spot. Okay. >> Um and they pay per hour. >> Uh there's also for the ladies who are investing, we have something in New York called sample sales. So the luxury brands will sell end of the season at 70% off huge amounts. And the most popular brands have two three-hour lines. So, and you it's really fun. You see all the girls on our laptops working the whole time. But sometimes people will hire someone to go stand in line for them. >> Very interesting. You know the second guest that I'm interviewing after going to India >> is one of your favorite real estate players >> over. >> Yes. >> You're going to meet. >> Yes. >> If you were to interview him, what is something that you would definitely ask? >> Okay. Okay. So the the thing about the cost that I love is when I invested in Oberoy realy they had an operating margin of 40%. No real estate developer has that profit margin. Okay you know I was talking to people my network including my father they all said that is an unsustainable operating profit. Okay operating margin. And I said no he's maintained this for years. It's increasing. I think now it's over 50%. And what he does is that he just doesn't take he doesn't lever up as much as all the other players and he grows at a very nice steady rate because his viewpoint is I want to survive. I want Oberoy realy to be a developer in India in 300 years. When I talk to every single one of his competitors, they laugh at him, okay? They tell him, oh, like they think they're a luxury developer, they're not a luxury developer, you know, they're not growing at our scale, they're not like us, blah blah blah. Okay? But he's the best. It's the highest quality compounder. And that what that Gorgal project in Mumbai the amount they brought the property for is how much the mall makes per year for them. So it's an incredible yield and the whole the whole all the developers are laughing at him. So the question I would ask is how do you maintain your principle and continue like that so well when the entire market doesn't do it the same way? And you know, honestly, I think they're very stupid not to copy him. Um, but I'm just wondering how does he how does he do that? How does he maintain that sound of mind and commitment to that principle? >> Tell me how did you first heard about NSE and how did you first heard about U Vikas the Aubra reality >> Aubra realy. Okay. So um NSD I had heard about for years. So I was a I was also an analyst working at a fund in India. So the fund was in the US but I was going back and forth to Mumbai and then I spent six months in BKC. So from the noise I remember hearing people talking that NYSE shares were trading on the secondary market and I had kind of forgotten about it. And then I don't know January 2024 an Indian investor had told me that he owned a lot of NSE shares. I said, "How did you get it because you're not like a formal fund or anything?" And he said, "Oh, you just get it through your broker. It's not hard at all." I was like, "Oh, okay." So, I I talked to my audit team, my legal team, and they took a couple months, but they came back and said, "Because it's pretty liquid in India and they have to IPO eventually, you can go ahead and buy it in the fund." And then I forgot about it again. Um, and then the NYSE team emailed me in the fall, a few months later, saying that they're coming to New York. Do you want to take a meeting? So I was like, "Oh, let me do work on it again." So then on NYSE's website, they have all the financials available for anybody to look at. >> You don't see that for any private company, right? So I fel had a lot of comfort knowing that these financials are online. Anyone can say they're can look at them at any time and do work and post on the internet if it's real or not, right? They can figure it out. So I had a lot of comfort that it was a legitimate operation. I mean, it is, you know? So that's the first thing. The I did my homework. I saw the radio was compounding at like this is incredible >> the valuation I got. So then I texted my my broker. I said I want NC shift. They said cool put you on a wait list. I was like wait list like I want to buy a lot. I said yeah wait list. I said okay you're not going to help me. So then I messaged my friend who had NYSE shares and I said connect me to some brokers. He connected me to four. >> One of them was not charging fees and gave me the cheapest rate. >> Who was this broker? He's going to get a lot of business. Uh he works at JM Financial. I see. >> His name is uh Rajat Agural. I see. >> And he wasn't charging fees at that time because they were doing a service for a big client of theirs. And he was the only one willing to do it for my foreign institution. The rest wanted to do it for my personal account. So he was willing. >> Um and he told me he gave me the price and I just saw okay this is like 30 times earnings. This is cheap for something that grows at this rate. So I just bought it. Then when I met with NYSE, they were we were talking about it and I said, "By the way, I'm already a shareholder. It's 10% of my fund and I'm fully invested." And they were excited. So we just had a nice conversation and I met with them a couple more times um after that and I took some friends from the US with me to go visit them in India and we we met many companies in India but they really >> stood out. >> They really stood out. They really liked I mean these are people who you know all my friends are Warren Buffett fans. They know the Tollbridge. They saw the NYSE. They saw the returns. They saw the financials. They said, "Oh, yeah. This is a >> What's the most awkward situation or most awkward question that an LP has asked to you? You call them?" >> No. Yeah, I call them LP. >> Okay. >> No, they they ask all kinds of questions. I feel like an open book, so I feel comfortable at answering everything. I think the one thing I have to politely decline is when they ask me to talk to their like seven, eightyear-old kids, >> okay? >> Because it's just they're too young to talk to. Um, but they'll say, "Oh, you'll be so inspiring and you know, can you talk to my 9-year-old?" I'm like, "Listen, you can talk to a 9-year-old. You can show them my videos, but it's your job to teach your kids." Um, so that's I think the only awkward thing that I had to politely decline, but I tell them like once your kid is a teenager, like send them over then, you know, then they have a basic math and basic reading standard and then like, you know, we can get into the fun part of investing. And I want to also understand when your father used to, you know, try to put you in front of some greed investors, what was his way of doing that? >> Yeah. So I think he he would always take permission first. So I think they had written to Buffett's office, can we bring our kids? And they said, okay, 10, 11, and 12, totally fine, no problem. Um, and Buffett actually put us next to him, which was really nice. But I think that when he takes us around, he always asks first. Um, and we were well behaved kids, so we were quiet and I don't think we'd speak much. Um, and we just take in what we could and if we got distracted, we got distracted. But he started bringing me to he started bringing me properly around India at 14. Uh, and I think around 13, 14, 15 is when we would start meeting his friends who are investors and talking to them and like, you know, I met Guy when I was 12. But Guy has watched me kind of grow up. >> He says, "You are a sibling." So, >> yeah, he's he's more like an uncle, but he does like to call me a sibling. Um, and yeah, I think I think some of these guys have watched me grow up. They've become really valuable now to me as a as a resource, but I I do my best not to overstep and you know, it's it's my dad's connection, not mine. But I know that if it's something that I think they can really answer and they're the only one, then I will I will ask and I will always give more than I take. Um, but I think even with my dad of when he brought my sister and I around, he just we were just, you know, it's like silent >> little birds on the wall just listening. And how do you not overstep? So for example, um the reason I ask over the years I have met some crazy investor, crazy good investor. These are the best investors. >> Uh and you try to share whatever you learn with them. Um you try to ask, they always help you. But how do you decide this is not overstepping and misusing their time and sometimes you have a dilemma. You have a question you want to ask. You ask, they reply. But how do you understand that? Okay, this is not overstepping when they become a resource to you. >> Well, they'll they'll they have their own boundaries. They'll tell you I can't answer that. >> Mhm. Um, and they they give the time when they're in a good mood, you know. So, that's one thing. But, uh, I think that time question is answered better being like a young professional in an office. You know, the your seniors, you don't take much of their time. When you ask them, you only ask something that they can only answer that nobody else can answer. So, the same way I think when you ask >> the best investors, you ask them something that only they know. you know you don't and you ask them something that you know if you find on the internet if it's already answered then don't ask them right so I think you want to ask something that you want to ask one question and you want to ask one really good question um and you want it to be I think different >> how do you invest in the times of uncertaintity >> oh yeah how to invest in times of uncertainty this is my favorite question so what happened is I think the Indian market at the start of this year was coming down okay and I was in India during this Um, and I did a group session with the Millennium Mamms and they asked me how do you have, you know, how do you like how do you figure out >> how to see north from south? Suddenly your whole portfolio is down in half and you start doubting yourself and you know they're all women so they're probably doubting themselves even more than men would in this situation. So I said, "Okay, the first thing that happens is um is let's say it's like a political issue or it could be any issue. It could be COVID, it could be the great financial crisis, it could be any time of uncertainty. Whatever is happening politically or ethically that you have a problem with, you deal with your emotion outside of your portfolio. You go fight with your friends, you fight with your, you know, your husband, whoever. You you can go on the message boards and be like, "Oh, I disagree with this so much." And whatever. You go rant. Get all of it out. Okay? Get it out of your system. So, we we do not have any emotion when we look at our portfolio. If it takes you an hour or a week >> or a month, >> you spend that month and you don't look at your portfolio. Just you go deal with your emotion. >> Once you have it out of your system, I would say the best investors have it out of their system faster, right? But it doesn't matter. get it out of your system. Then you look at your portfolio. You know, we can say it's the tariffs that happen. So then you go through each you you pull you list your um >> positions from largest to smallest. And you know what happens is you might have your own account, your husband's account, your parents account, your kids account, your retirement account. So you list, okay, we have this much Costco, this much Oberoy realy, this much, you know, Elise, HDFC, and you put it from largest to smallest. And then you go, you spend a lot of time on the one that's the biggest, and you ask yourself, you know, is this a good business? Does this have high margin, a good margin of safety? Does this have good alignment of interest? Does this have good capital allocation standards? Then you ask, "How does this stock do in a high tariff environment?" And if you don't know the answer, that's okay because we have AI. And you can ask AI, how does Costco perform in a high tariff environment? And it'll tell you, okay, for the most part, for the big companies, it's correct. It's pretty close to correct because a lot of people are prompted. And it's a smart AI. You go each one and then you decide, is this a hold? Is this a sell? or is this something we could probably add more to because we'll do really well. Okay. And you do that for each position. >> This exercise, if you have 15 stocks, should take you a long time. Should probably take you a week or so, maybe two weeks, but you want to dedicate good time to it. Now, the couple of things you've booked marked for sale, that doesn't mean you sell today. Okay? That means you say, "Okay, this is something that probably won't do that well." And now that I've looked at it, is actually a bad investment. Okay? and you've probably already lost a lot of money on this already. So, you just say, "Okay, once it comes to like this price or comes up a little bit or something, I'm going to sell it." Don't panic sell right away. That's the worst thing you can do. Then you do my favorite thing. And then you get to look at all the companies you haven't bought but you love, okay? >> Because they were too expensive. And you check how does this do in a high tariff environment? Is it a good business? So you ask all the questions and if it passes every question then you say okay I'll buy more when it's at a good price. That's my favorite way to handle uncertainty. There's no other things you need to do. >> A couple of things here. Number one, you mentioned emotion plays with you a lot. >> Yes. >> What's the most high intensity high intensity emotion that plays with the mind of an investor? >> Fear. >> Fear. fear and an I I think I think uh if you like politically disagree with someone >> you might bring that into your portfolio which is a problem. I think fear and greed play the biggest role. Sorry that's the obvious answer. Um so I think sometimes you have like a 600% return on your investment and now it's more than half of your portfolio. Probably not not a good idea to keep that position. um you're a retail investor >> where you should probably sell a little bit and find some other things that are like that >> and I think there's also fear where you know people lose a little bit and then just sell you know they'll do stop loss in India and miss out on a huge gain so and the same happens where someone has a double and they have a fear that's it won't go any higher so they also sell so and there's no correct or wrong way I think you just have to re-evaluate as if you were buying at that price again and decide is the upside still there, is the downside protected, you know, and and do the analysis. >> What is something that you really love, but you can't buy because it's too costly? >> You know, the the one that goes in and out the most is HGFC Bank. >> Okay. >> So, sometimes I buy it >> and it's expensive and then I'll pay for it and then it'll perform badly because I bought in the US and it's ADR to India. >> Okay. Okay, then I'll say that's a mistake because the U US banks trade at a cheaper valuation than HDFC. Okay, and then I'll realize a year later, okay, wait, but it should chase trade at a at a price rate because there is more growth. So then I'll buy HDFC again >> and then >> I'll get hammered again um and then maybe sell a little bit or I'll add more. So I always have that dance I think with HTFC of what is the right price to pay? Should I own it? Should I not own it? Um, so right now I I do own a little bit and I hope I just let it stay and I stop making decisions back and forth on it because that's the one I'm always like uncertain of and I keep changing my mind on. But I think if you own HTFC in India and not HGFC in the US on the ADR, it's probably a good investment. um something that's really expensive that I have I mean you know like for example I would love to buy Mao Thai but it's always been at 25 times earnings and it's been flat for years and it is core to the Chinese um culture but it just hasn't done well in the last couple years. >> Why do you think it hasn't performed well? >> I don't know. I I I'm confused why it hasn't >> it's a state to a state own company right >> state own enterprise. Yeah, >> but >> I don't know. I >> Are people not drinking that much more? >> I don't know. I think I think people are drinking and I think it it gets a little bit cheaper every year on valuation, but the price stays the same. >> Are the profit margin increasing? Is the sales volume growth happening? >> It's all just staying the same. So, I just won't buy it because I'm not seeing the growth that I think used to be there from our time. But it is a great company and I think it is something that if you have a personal account you should own a Maai for a long time. But I can't bring myself to buy it in the fund because it just hasn't performed well in the last couple years. >> You went against Leelu to buy and not to sold this script of yours, right? I remember one story where called your father. >> Yeah. Leelu called my father and said it's time to sell Maine. They sold Ma Thai and um he said you know some Leelu is a I mean if Leelu tells you to sell Mai you sell Ma Thai and I think my dad had mentioned to me oh you know we sold Mai Leelu told us to sell sell Mai and I just said but it's the world's greatest compounder like we've talked about that for years it's the best compounder I remember Charlie Mer talking about it like I can't sell this and at that time I was still like a teenager so or maybe like early maybe just out of Part of it was because at my fund I couldn't really buy or sell stock. So I would have had to take extra permissions to go get to sell it. So I just didn't bother to be the right choice. Um so in action is good. Uh so I I still own it in my personal account and it's I I've had a good return from where I bought it but in the last couple years I haven't seen the return in my portfolio. But I know Mtown is a long-term a good investment. I think if it really comes down in price 10 12 times then I would buy it. >> You speak a lot about your personal portfolio and the fund portfolio. What are some dilemmas that you have in your personal portfolio and which you don't try to replicate in the private portfolio and then you know >> the vice versa. >> So I would say the 10 largest positions in my personal account are the same 10 largest positions in the fund. So the only things I do in my personal account that I don't do in the fund is if I owned it before the fund started and I I just didn't sell it. Just happens to be there and I didn't feel like I should buy it for the fund. And the second is there was a there was a company in China that was direct listing a holding into the US and I forgot the name of the original company but they were they were listing Shark Ninja and Shark Ninja makes household goods like vacuums and like blenders and air fryers like these sorts of things. Um, and it was a special situation where the value of Shark Ninja was much cheaper than the IPO value that was going to come. It wasn't actually IPO. It was a direct listing. And I had never done a deal where or investment where something was listed in one country and then listing a subsidiary in another country. And I just didn't have comfort putting my client's money into that. So, I said, "Let me first try it myself and see if it goes well, and then maybe the next time something like this happens, I'll have more comfort." Because I'd never done it before. So, I like maybe 5 $10,000 I put into this deal. And it directlisted in the US and for 3 weeks, the shares did not show up. >> And that three weeks is when we saw the biggest boom. And so, what I think a lot of people were doing is when it listed, they were selling it. Um, and I like Shark Ninja. I think you know household appliances is a moat. You build you know people um have like vacuums and blenders they they trust and so it's like you know builds goodwill with people like the brand was a good brand. It's a well-known brand in the US. So I just said okay like this is something that can compound for a while and I just let it sit and do its thing. So now I know in the future if I want to do a listing from another country into the US or US into another country, it would probably take a couple weeks for the shares to show up. That's not the case for most IPOs and listings. They usually come right away. Um but this was very awkwardly held up and a lot of people weren't. It was messy. It was very messy and so I'm glad that I did it in my personal account and not in the fund. That's the only trade I've done that's in my P that's on the fund. Yeah. while the fund was alive. >> So, two questions. Tell us about some greatest of the greatest investors >> that are unknown to the world. >> Oh, would it would be Pulock is my number one, >> of course. >> Um, oh, well, I think Indians don't know about Leelu, so that's another one. >> Mhm. Um I think some of the guys who have passed away maybe are less relevant because we don't hear about them anymore but Peter Lynch and Sir John Templeton are worth I think going back and looking at what they say. >> I think in India it would be a >> a good uh Finn influencer. So uh I love that term because there's so many that have put so much into the public domain who are no longer alive but their whole legacy is available. Um, and then I think on the VC side, my favorite is Bill Gurley. >> He's a very interesting. He's in New York also, right? >> I thought he was an SF. >> SF. Okay. >> I actually don't know. I just think he's cool. >> Tell me about a couple of very interesting young investors that you believe apart from you. >> Yes. >> Will >> that would be good >> future billionaires or you know, future Warren Buffets of >> Yeah. Let me think. You know, there's there's there's so many that are starting now. >> Mhm. Um, and they're good investors. They just can't get the capital. So, I don't know which ones will do well and which ones won't because your ideas can be as good as they are. But until you I think you have to be able to raise. So, being a good investor is also being a good marketer, right? And being able to get capital and being able to convince people to take a leap of faith and invest with you. So, uh, I don't want to say any names, uh, just because I don't know if how many of them will will even be able to start that I think are really good. So, we'll see. But I think I think the next Warren Buffett or Charlie Mer hasn't even started yet. I think he's he or she is probably maybe still in high school or college and will probably really use AI to make them an incredible investor. I think I think I think the future one isn't born yet or is born but like you know isn't on the scene yet. >> Very interesting. >> Yeah. >> What would you advise to this guy or a girl who's a great investor but is not able to raise? >> You don't I think a lot of them spend time pursuing the endowments. So they'll go tell the big endowments and the big foundations I have this style of an investing and you should put money in. Okay. And all the endowments and foundations they'll take the meetings. Okay. because there's people that work there whose job is to make sure they know every fund, okay? But they don't want to be more than 10% of your fund and they don't want to write a check less than 50 million, which means you have to be 500 million. Okay? So, it's a chicken and egg problem. So, I think what happens is a lot of young people, they're really smart, they have great educations, they're really bright, um, spend a lot of time pursuing endowments in big checks. I'm like, "No, you can take small checks from the people around you. Do a good job. Be responsible. Don't use leverage on friends and family money." Like, start with the friends and family. And you can start small and scaling. That's how I started. And I got lucky because I'm, you know, my dad's kid that people are interested in me because they recognize the last name and they send an inquiry. Um, but I don't I think I think even now I I don't have institutional capital. Even my father does not have institutional capital. He manages a billion dollars. I don't think you need big checks to make big amounts of money. I think you need small checks. You need to build trust. And as you do well, the saying is people will swim through sharkinfested waters to come to you if the returns are good. So do a good job. It's okay if it's small amount of money, but do a good job. It'll come. >> Very interesting. Yeah, >> because you mentioned PM Vatsasa and the reason I was telling the story is that there are a lot of people in India that don't know about at least the Indians who are doing business. So I'm here hosting Ramshi Rams the first founding board member people like Vinut Koslas sir uh people like Naven Chadas he's a very interesting name in the field of venture investing >> prevata sir it's great this crazy big company Fairfax >> yes >> but a lot of people in India don't know about him >> yes >> tell me your interaction and your learning with him >> I would say fairfax is probably one of the closest clones of Bergkshire Hathaway because Fairfax owns the insurance company arm from the premiums they collect on insurance. They create the float. Well, and then the difference the float is the difference between the premiums and what they pay out. So that's the float. And he takes the float and he invests in companies. And he's done a great job. Um his track record is not as good as Buffetts, but it's not bad. >> And he's been in the business for I think 30 years, maybe maybe more. I go to Toronto every year. I don't know the exact year. Um and Prem grew up in India. I think it was Hyderabbad. His father was a school teacher, a principal. Um and he came to Canada and I think he had started Fairfax and a guy named Francis Cho explained to him the reason Bergkshire does well is because of the float and he didn't understand float and Francis explained what the float was. Pra said, "Okay, I get it. We'll keep going." He built it. He built it. And what I love about Prem is he did what Buffett did. He committed himself to a principal and he scaled it and he has this I mean he has an incredible team that works with him. Um some of the people that I used to work for also used to work at Fairfax and Fairfax has an Indian subsidiary that's publicly traded and he invests in multiple companies in India. He also owns they own terminal 2 at Bangalore and so it's a it's a shame people in India probably don't know as much about him because he's he has an incredible track record. He's also an incredible person. He's a large donor to the Duxna Foundation. So we have a nice family friendship with him and his his kids and now his grandkids. Um and yeah, I think people should look him up and learn what he did and follow his track record and follow what he invested in. >> Two questions. >> Yes. on the verge of verge of not disappointing P. Why would you not invest in Fairfax? >> So I I I can't invest in Fairfax because um because he's a big donor to DuNa and I and I'm on the board of DuNa Canada. So it would be >> a conflict of interest. >> It would be not kosher. Yeah, it'd be a conflict of interest if I invest. So I can't invest for that reason. Um I don't think I can promote it either. But I I think if you if you're in India and you're looking for people who you haven't heard about um he's an incredible person. >> Tell me most interesting story that you have with him and most interesting learning from an incident that you had with >> Oh, with Pra. I haven't had uh many interactions with Prem. >> Um but his eldest his only son Ben was named after I think Ben Graham. He came to India in 2018 when I was living in Mumbai >> and we spent a couple days with him taking him around to meet Indian companies and I was showing him you know Palace Royale in Mumbai. Yeah. >> So I was pointing out at Palace Royale and showing him all the fun facts about Mumbai and the city and >> and he's a little bit like me where he was I think he was born and raised in Canada. So he didn't have a great understanding of India. If you talk to him today, he knows India better than me >> really. >> He, you know, he leads the Fairfax India meeting. Um, he's a seasoned investor. So, even Ben Watsa, I would say, is uh not so well known. Um, and an Indian Indian value investor. >> Who is the other value investors who are not known to the world whether Indian or global? You mentioned Leelu. >> Yeah, Leelu is one >> amazing story. >> Yes. >> Francis Cho. You mentioned >> Francis Cho. Okay. So, Francis Cho is in Canada. >> Yeah. And Francis Cho, he gave me a really nice insight. He just pulled me aside the first day I started the fund and he said, "You're either going to be an investor who uh I think is a rifle shooter or a shotgun." >> And I was like, "What do you mean?" He's like, "You'll either have a basket of stocks or you'll have a couple of big bets." And he said, "Every investor, you know, like promote one or the other, but it's it's whatever you're comfortable with." And I think what he was trying to tell me is, "Yeah, your father does it this way, but find your way." Uh, so I really appreciate that from Francis. And he's he's a really humble guy >> and um he's a really nice guy. He's also pretty funny. This I would say he's a not so well-known investor, but his holdings are publicly available. >> No, under known value investors. >> Yeah. Maybe David Abraham. Um Abrams. Yeah. Abrams Capital. He he's came out of Seth Clarman's fund. And so he has an incredible track record. I also really like Terry Smith. >> Uh he runs a fund called Fundsmith. I'm probably closest to his style and he he says I've never met him. He says winners keep winning. So he likes he likes the big companies that no one can can disrupt. >> Very interesting. Any Indian investors, value investors? Unknown. >> I like I like Ramdeo. Um I like Ramshani. Unknown. These are >> Yeah, I don't know that we have learned from >> I don't know unknowns. I I like the guys at NM. I think they're really smart. >> N we hosted Walhai Vanali. You have not put the podcast up. >> Oh, cool. I'm excited to watch that. >> Do you know Walabay? >> I have met him. Yeah, I met him in in LA at the Munger meeting. >> Oh, really? Very interesting. Watch this LA Mer meeting. >> Okay. So, it stopped happening. >> Okay. >> But um Mer was he owns he used to own Daily Journal. >> Okay. Yeah. And he the Daily Journal has an annual meeting and at Berkshire 45,000 people come but Daily Journal 200 300 people come. >> Oh my god. >> It's a better way to ask Munger questions. So they were at that meeting. I I met them there. >> Um and then's um nephew. Yeah, >> I've I've met him in Mumbai and he's he's really >> Arman. >> No, I think Akash. >> Akash. Akash. Okay. I'm talking Arin is Arman is more close to me. So he's son of Akasha. very interesting one one problem that I have one one thing this was one thinking which was you know disturbing me um this was my first foreign buffet meeting the bkshshire meeting and I'm just worried that this would be his last meeting okay >> it is >> it is right now >> he came out and said he's not going to speak at the next one >> now I wonder this is the time where I've started learning about the world and the world of investing >> what would be an other mecca of investing world which will bring so many investors this together and and there was a point in time >> it was very inspirational for me you know the time when everybody stood up and clapped for him. >> Yes. There was so much energy in that moment and you just it makes you wonder. >> It's just like an other human being, right? >> But he's done >> so much. He's taken so many decisions and that's really inspirational, right? It's >> excellence in flesh and blood, right? >> What are other events underknown events like Burkshire >> Headqu I I mean I go to Bergkshire that's the biggest one. I do go to the Fairfax annual meeting in um Toronto. That's about four or 5,000 maybe 2 to 4,000. LA this last year was pretty full. So that's another one. I don't know if we'll have one again like Buffett. I think >> what they did at Berkshire the way they built it true to the Midwest principles. He put the shareholders first. We will never >> I don't think we'll never have that again. >> You I wanted to ask you um why are you growing up? >> Mhm. because your father is an investor. You becoming an investor was really your independent thought or was it a mimmetic desire? >> Um >> I'm very curious to know about this. >> It's a good question. So I I mean I grew up learning about business models. There was no pressure in the home to become an investor. I would say there was probably more there was pressure to do well in school and to find what I was good at. Mhm. >> But what both my parents inspired me to do was to become an entrepreneur. So my mom also ran her own businesses. So I really saw them both as as business people. >> Mh. >> Um and I wanted to be an attorney. I wanted to be a lawyer. Um and I wanted to fight people. That's way more fun to me. And I think I realized >> okay >> that um in and investing is cool because um it's I you get to be you get paid if you're right. Right. And if you're an attorney, you're also paid. If you're right, you feel good winning a case or >> whatnot. So I felt I always had that natural tendency. Um they were great entrep they're good. They're excellent entrepreneurs. >> So that was always emphasized in the home. >> I think uh I'd say teenager to I fell in love investing when I was 19. So teenager 13, 14 to 19. I just thought my dad was a guy who made wealthy people wealthier. That's all I saw. Right. And I went to Berkeley, which is very left, very liberal. Um, and I just thought this is not a noble, not a noble cause, okay? And I had met the CIO of the UCLA endowment. So, this is where privilege is, I'm really grateful because of my, you know, I get to be in a room with people that are that have a lot of say. So, >> um, the CIO of the UCLA endowment and I talked about, um, my I had an investment in Mastercard and I I think we talked about making rich people richer and I didn't like it. So, he said, "Come work at the endowment." Because the client is not a wealthy person. The client is the school and so it's it goes to financial aid, grants, research, teachers pay, whatever. So, it was a is a worthy cause to invest for and to make money for. So, I really liked and I also always loved Dana growing up. So, I always thought that that my parents did was always awesome. Um, at the end, I really fell in love with investing because I would read the last 20, 30 years of letters from every major investor who managed billions of dollars. >> Warden Buffet, >> even like like Greenlight Capital, Cedar Rock, which is now closed in London, um, Hill House in China, which they had made a big investment in JD.com. Um, so I read all those letters going back and I just I fell in love with investing. It was the coolest thing and I just was like, "Oh, this is so cool." And they had sent me to India for one month. So I worked at New Horizon Investment Fund in Nariman Point when I was 20 years old for one month and I learned a little bit about the Indian market and after college I asked the UCLA endow or when college was ending, can I work for them and they said no. They said go do equity research, go work at a fund. So then I went to my dad And I said, "Okay, I'm ready. I I want to work at a fund." He was shocked. Okay. He was just totally shocked that I was this sparkly left liberal girl who thought making rich people rich was the worst cause ever. And I was like, "No, I actually really like investing and I've totally fallen in love with the game and all of it." And I had this incredible resource at home who and we at that time we were talking about investments a lot. We had started. So he said, "Okay, I can email some friends and see if we can get you a job." I said, "No, I don't want that." and uh I want to we already have the last name like it's enough uh I want to try myself. So he said can I get involved in the process and I said sure so I wrote a stock pitch on Dillards which uh Greenlight Capital David Einhorn had bought and it was a women's retail company so I knew a lot about it and it ended up being like an interesting REIT of a of an investment. So my dad helped me edit that and we mailed it to 750 Funds >> and we've we've come full circle. So the I really fell in love with it then >> and what I love about my dad is he didn't really get involved with investing till I came to him and said this is interesting to me and like coach me. Um and that's when we and all we do is we share fun stories and fun pitches and how businesses work and he's a great guru in that way but there was no pushing from a young age that pushed me into it. But there's probably things I learned as a kid um being his kid that I don't even realize that um I've internalized um in my investments, but I I couldn't put into words for you. >> And what is one thing that you believe if you were not born in this lineage, you wouldn't have figured it out or you would have figured out on your own? A two-part question. >> Yeah. The no self-pity, no envy. >> Mhm. that was basically hammered into my upbringing where you know if kids are doing better than me in school or someone is more successful. I think it's very easy to say oh poor me or because of my situation I can't do well or they're just smarter or whatever or like become jealous. And what I was raised with was no self-pity, no envy. It's you versus you. So I'm very lucky that I got to learn that at a young age. I think people learn that later in life. And then I I would take it a step further which is probably comes more from my mom which is if someone is doing better than you or performing at a higher level or getting better grades. What can you do diff what are they doing that you're not doing that it's easy to copy? And that helped me a lot with school because in middle school I had C's and B's and in high school I knew the kids that were getting straight A's and I looked at how they behaved in class and I looked at how they approached homework and assignments and clubs and I copied all of it. It was the most powerful tool. >> Tell me about a couple of trends that you have recently figured out that you're most excited about. >> Oh, um I think I'm really excited about I think the world outside the US is going to grow at an incredible rate and I think different countries will grow at different rates. So, I'm forcing myself to spend more time in these countries which is great because travel is fun. So, um I'm going to go to Turkey and look at some companies there. I had I went a few years ago, but I just got my license to trade, so that'll be fun. I'm also going to spend some time in Hong Kong and China, so I get a better feeling of >> the Chinese um culture. It's been a few years since I've been um same. I think I need to go to Taiwan. And I love going to India. I I I think I used to just, you know, I used to spend a lot of time in India. Now I've reduced it. But I'm I'm forcing myself to increase my time in the countries I spend my time so I get a good understanding. Um and I'm really excited about that. I mean India I'm the most bullish on. And what's really funny is everyone outside of India. I think India is their number one too. Even the Brazilians are coming to me to talk about India. The Argentinians are coming to me to talk about India. So um people from Mexico, people from the US, people in Europe and Australia are coming to me to talk about India. So I think the whole world is very bullish on India. Uh but I know the show is very bullish too. >> Let me ask you the same question. Yes. Your father asked when you were eight and she he asked you to you and your sister. Sister chose Disney. I'm just forgetting what >> I chose Target. >> You chose Target. >> She did better. >> Okay. She did better. >> I did better. >> If somebody asked you the same question and I want you to really think on this. >> What would your answer be? >> Costco. Costco. >> Costco. Because even in the lux like in the luxury shopping I do my very favorite perfume sells at $350 a bottle. >> Which is your favorite perfume? >> Brio. >> Okay. Okay. >> Okay. And it's a it's actually at the at the Geo Mall in Mumbai which I was really excited about. It was there >> and if I'm a consumer I normally will buy it at 20% off when it's on sale at Nordstrom or some retailer. Costco has it at 40% off once a year and it sells out in two weeks. Really? >> So, I always wait to buy it from Costco. >> When is this time? >> It's right now. >> I think it's almost over. So, I just bought it. Yeah. But >> yeah. So, I I think that's crazy because Costco people associate with toilet paper and and paper towels and water and eggs, but they also have perfume and beauty and clothing and it's they provide I mean they provide incredible value for >> Americans that that build such goodwill with people. They have the lowest price if they have something always. What's the best book that you have read this year? >> Uh, I I read Same as Ever by Morgan Hustle. I thought that was a nice book. >> Okay. What's the best documentary that you have watched this year or lately? >> Oh, there was there was one on Osama bin Laden. >> Okay. The Netflix one. >> Yeah. >> Okay. Very interesting. >> It's kind of nice. >> Yeah, >> I enjoyed it. >> Who's your favorite investor in New York? >> Oh, my favorite investor in New York is probably Girish Baku. >> He was there at the meeting. >> He was there and he asked me about futures and options, too. Yes. He's probably not a well-known value investor. So, that's a great move. >> But he's a tech investor, right? >> I he it's more value cycles. 10 years ago, he loved uh women luxury. >> I think his son is also in New Chicago. What is something that a lot of people don't understand about Charlie Mer while reading his book? >> Charlie Mer behind um closed doors is a really funny person. >> He's a total comedian. um that I think that I think that people don't know and um I think the other thing that people don't so you know we asked the Mer told us that um before he passed away that he was having trouble sleeping at night half the population has trouble sleeping at night you know cuz they're thinking too much they can't sleep so at 98 years old Mer was thinking too much he couldn't sleep was the most common problem and we asked him what do you do you know he said I watch two episodes of Seinfeld. That's it. And then he passes out. And it's the And I think what's so cool about Munger is how I think people think that, oh, Mer is special and Buffett is special and then they're they are smart guys and they're intelligent. Okay, that's true. But there's a lot of smart people in the world. And hard work is also something that's easy to learn, right? It's just it's hard to maintain. I think anybody could have been Munger or Buffett and I think anyone in the future I don't know if they'll be as good. I think the times are different and and things are different but I think if you are intelligent, if you have high integrity, if you have high energy, you can achieve incredible things. I think the hard part is being consistent. And I think discipline is really hard to master. And I think, you know, part of it comes from being crazy about it and being in love with it. But I think there's something about being devoted and dedicated to something that's very hard to to clone. >> If you were to bet on any one young guy who you believe will be either Charlie Ma or Warren Buffet of tomorrow, what do you think? Who will who will it be? >> Well, I hope it's me. >> I'm sure. I'm sure. >> I hope it's me. I think I I mean I've structured my funds to be exactly like Buffett. I I study him. I study Munger. Um I've I've made it my mission to try and be as good as them. And you know, Munger says go fishing where nobody else is fishing. So I do India. I do a little bit of China. You also have to work in your circle of competence. So I look at the United States. Um I don't know if we'll have anybody as good as them. And I think the guys who are at Bergkshire Hathaway right now, Greg, Ajib, Ted, Todd, really smart guys, you know, they're smart guys and they're they've also devoted themselves to this to these principles and and this style of thinking. >> Mhm. >> Um and they there's so much in the public domain. I think anybody could be the next one, but I hope I hope it's me. >> Yeah. What's what's the most ingrained memory that you had when you visited Charlie's house? I mean, his house is like a movie, you know, because there's there's his pile of reading is so high. His I mean, the it it it's just the books everywhere. It's it's it's crazy. And I think um I don't know. I I I've know what the inside looks like. It's awesome. And he has this gorgeous leather reclining chair. Most standout memory is I don't know. I think he just in a 3-hour dinner will go through 40 topics and he'll change the topics to whatever he wants. His family is there. They'll ask questions. We'll ask them questions. And I think what I love about those dinners with Munger is just the variety of topics we talk about. So it'll it we'll talk about Costco, we'll talk about um education and the best way to learn. And he one time he asked us, "Do you as students learn better with a white background or a black background?" Like the Khan Academy black background or in the US we have a white board, right, that you write on? Like which background do you learn better on? And that was like a 20-minute debate. So, it's just the the most fun topics that and I think he really wants to hear what everybody in the room thinks about it from different generations, different countries they've gone to school in. So like you know my parents grew up in India so they had an Indian education. Um my sister and I we grew up in the US we had an American California education and then you know Khan Academy was is very popular for supplementing school. So did we learn better math better with our whiteboard teacher or our Khan Academy blackboard teacher? I don't know. >> Very interesting because you grew up you know with all these people. Who are some other folks in the Mongers clan that nobody talks about? >> I think the one thing that the investing community does really nicely is that they're very public and they give their information out. >> Why do you think there are very less women investors? >> There's few women investors because we have few role models. So there's no female Warren Buffett. There's no female Ramdeal in India. We don't have female presidents in the United States. We have very few female leaders around the world. And um and it's sad and I think I used to not know why. So um a few years ago a fund manager who's a man asked me why when he went to his daughter's school he had twin daughters. He he gave a presentation about investing and he said only the boys were participating at 12 years old. He said, 'What happens where at age 12, girls don't participate in the classroom? I said, I don't know. They normally participate in classroom. This is strange. And I was talking to another female investor who is a lovely woman, Lauren Templeton, and I asked her, you know, innocently, why? And she said, I had the exact opposite experience when I went to my 12-year-old's classroom, my daughter's classroom. The girls and the boys were both participating, but the girls asked lovely questions. And I said, oh, then it clicked. because the girls saw someone who looked like their mom, who looked like what they would grow up to look like one day, who they felt comfortable um asking that question, too. And it's not to say that men make it uncomfortable for women all the time. But representation is very important if you're a minority, if you're a woman. It's important to get out there and speak to young people because one, young people have a lot to learn and their minds are like sponges. They could take it all in. But you're going to inspire someone who has not been inspired before. >> I truly appreciate you doing this and the reason is I'll tell you a backstory for this. >> Um and this is a very this is something that I'm not very proud of. I have done so many interviews >> and unfortunately so in my life I was uh sent to a all boy school. Okay. So till 12th no women interaction only with you know the cousins that I had and then when I went to triple 80 sur in my computer science batch there were only two women okay >> uh never interacted then I went to some other place where you know we got some grants from the government so all my time used to go in lab right no interaction and that how I grew up that suddenly translated into my work you know this is a weekend hobby which I do to learn from the best of the best people and when I saw Okay, I have interviewed 100 people and there is no single woman and I felt very sad about this and one of my mentors you know mentioned and uh you are my first women guest on the show. >> Such an honor >> after doing 100 episodes and I I'm very happy to have you. >> Thank you. >> Uh and I'm genuinely glad that you know this will change >> the representation that I have. >> Yes. >> Um I want to know who are some of the greatest female investors that had huge influence on you? >> Okay. Yeah. So there's there's two that I talk to um maybe once or twice a year when I see them. So one is Lauren Templeton. She's the grand niece of Sir John Templeton who is a very famous investor. She's she's so kind to me. Every time I see her, she makes it a point to introduce me to people around her and she's quite encouraging. Um and she's a great investor herself. Uh, and the second is a woman I was connected to rather recently. She lives in New York. Her name is Fatima Diggy. She runs a fund and she lives she works in um kind of near the Upper West Side in New York. We've met two or three times for lunch over the past few years. And the majority of the conversation is a little bit about in investing, but a lot about how to make sure I'm visible, how to make sure I feel confident and comfortable as a female investor. And I think even for her and Lauren, I'd say both of them are surrounded by 99% men. So I don't feel bad that all your guests have been men on the show. It's it's it's not because you weren't seeking women out. It's because there aren't women in this field. And outside of these two ladies, I have heard of a couple of other women and haven't had the opportunity to meet them yet. It's I really hope it changes. I hope every year my um career progresses, I meet more and more women in the field. But the real problem is is that we just don't have good role models. >> How will you break this catch 22? It's like a you won't start a business if you don't have money. And you won't have money if you don't start a business. So how will you break this catch22? >> You know I do I do what I can in um India there's a there's a nonprofit called Millennium Mams. So every time I'm in Mumbai I go meet with the group. I'll do video calls with them. And on some of the video calls there are 400 housewives who are on this call who all maintain personal portfolios. It's the most inspiring thing. Um and I think it it starts it starts in the home. It starts with having an encouraging father and a mother who believe that their daughters and sons are equal. Their daughter and sons can both do incredibly if they want to in their career starts in the home. Um and there I see India shifting in this way but it's I mean it's just it's going to take time. It just starts with we have this concept in the US of a girl dad and it's a father of a young girl who is a pioneer and a champion and a cheerleader and a coach for their daughter's career and professionalism. So I think maybe we need a girl dad movement in India too. >> Do you think of Mish is a girl dad? >> Mish is a girl dad. Yeah. My father is a he is such a girl dad. He only has two daughters and I mean our whole life he always told us it doesn't matter what you do as long as you're the best and you put your best foot forward and I think even if he had had a son he would have said the exact same thing. But I felt we were raised not like daughters but like like children like sons you know you're raised um in a way where your career is totally important. >> Yeah. And when you mentioned that you were raised like children and not you know female what do you mean by that? >> Yeah so I think something that happens in in uh dy homes is boys and girls are treated differently. Um and it's it's because of the way society is and you know parents have a right to be fearful that you know the girls take the short end of the stick if anything bad happens. So, I understand why it happens that way, but you know, it's like it um in corporate America, what I've noticed is if you're a male or a female not doing well in your job, you'll get a performance review, they'll put you on a three-month plan to improve your performance. Right? In India, what I think sometimes happens is, you know, if you're a boy or a girl, if you're a boy, you might be put on that performance expectation and how to improve. But I think for a lot of girls, the alternative is not to perform better in work, but to, you know, maybe consider becoming a mother and retiring from work. So, you see a lot of very intelligent women in India step away from their careers to have children. And in the US the same thing happens but more and more women are pushing the career and the biological clock together you know to to do both at the same time and it becomes very difficult at home and you basically have to earn enough income to have help at home to help you in the US but I think in India the encouragement isn't there the same way I think that's a problem >> and the solution is >> mindset shift I think managers and CEOs need to create policies in their workplaces to encourage women to stay in the workforce. So uh Apple and I think Google in the U I think they do this in India too but in the US uh you can freeze your eggs for free >> really >> for free because they want to they want to maintain that talent and you know and Indra Newui says this she said he she says for women the career clock and the biological clock are in direct conflict with each other. Um so they've figured out this egg freezing thing but it's still this hard to carry the baby to term if you're in your 40s and you have more risks and complications. So it's still a problem that nobody's figured out. But there are policies that I think India can put into place in their in the private sector to encourage women to stay in the workforce. And we have this problem in the US too. We have 3 months of maternity leave. It's not enough. I think Western Europe and the Nordic region of Europe, they do it well. I mean they it's kind of crazy. They give like almost a year it >> of paid leave. It might be too long. Um, and that's also part of the reason why I started my fund when I was 25 because I did not want to have a 2-year-old at home when I was starting a fund. I wanted the fund to have a life of 10 years before I have a child, right? So, I made that choice. Um, and I took that gamble much earlier on and I was lucky because I had my father and I had his, you know, his blessing and I had this incredible network that was able to help me. So, I'm lucky that way. But I think most women, I know that they don't have that. There's a benefit. So the the one thing I've learned from my clients is they like that I'm young. So the ones who have invested with me, what they said is you have 30 years of your prime. So I get to invest with you for 30 years. And people who put money in my fund, they don't plan to take it out in five or 10 years. They literally tell me 20 plus. We don't. We're And I tell them the same thing I said don't put money you need to take out quickly because I need that long to to really make good money for you. So, and so and but then I do meet people who say, "Oh, you know, you're so young. How can we trust you? You don't have much of a track record." And I tell them, "That's no problem. You're, you know, you do your do your homework on me." So, um, the first 3 to nine months convincing people was very hard because I had good returns in my personal accounts. I had made more money investing than on my salary, which is why I started. And uh my father basically came to me when I was 25 and he said the job you have is useless. And I was working I had started the management company when I was 23 just to invest some money to build some kind of track record more for myself not for other people to convince myself I could do it. At the same time my best friends and I had created a hair care company. So we had made a product that you know in India when you put the oil in your hair >> and when you wash it out it doesn't take it all out. >> Yeah. >> Um so we created something that was like a hair oil but it had a little bit of soap in it like shampoo because that's hydro >> filic and hydrophobic. >> Hydrophilic hydrophobic which means it attaches to water and attaches to shampoo and it washes out in one go. And it's also like a hair treatment you can put in your hair without it being too messy. Mhm. >> So we had made this product, we were selling it. So we had that company and then on the side I was also working on the management company for the hedge fund while working at a it was a Y combinator funded um beauty company of a machine that painted your nails. So I had all this going on. I was 24 years old and my dad said um quit your job and work on those two. So I said okay. So, I talked to my best friends and I said, "Hey, I think I'm going to quit my job and work on both of these things." And they said, "No, because none of us are quitting our job to work on this. You can work on it on the side like we all are. Just do the fund full-time." So, I did that. I basically convinced um two women to give me a little bit of starting capital. So, I started with $2 million US in April 1st of 2021. and um what's been 4 years now and we're at just about 15 million and my goal was that in 3 years we get to 10 million which I had hit and um I sometimes can't even believe that it works this way but I I know the principles. I've I've grown up watching my dad do it. I've heard every single investor who started with two million and now manages a billion or two billion or 10 billion and they and it's it's a 30-year journey. it takes that long and I just decided okay let's start at 25 year 10 will be 35 then I can have a kid or two um at least we'll have the beginning tough parts convinced but the first month from the first nine months interested investors asked me the craziest questions because I didn't have any real track record to show right you can't really show the returns on your personal account because you have a salary coming in so you're buying at random times a fund is different because it's a locked amount of capital that you're investing and you're being judged every quarter with returns. There's an auditor who's checking that everything is legitimate and correct. So, it's more appropriate. After year one, it got easier because I had one full year of returns. They could see there was disclosed statements of what we had bought and sold and what mistakes we had made and I was and I started hosting annual calls with my investors and interested investors. So, it became easier. So every year that goes by, anyone who's interested in investing can see the last >> three years, four years, >> four years of returns, right? And they also can look at 90minute transcripts of how I answer questions and how I think about investing and how I'm changing in that short amount of time. And you know, sometimes they ask me what's a mistake and I'll explain the mistake. Then the next year I'll say that was not a mistake. It was correct and we bought it again. Um and they can see the transformation. So I think that gives them a lot of um comfort. So I think if you're a young person, a young boy or a young girl, keep some kind of written track record. So it doesn't need to be number based. It can just be how you think. So even like a Substack with some written thoughts, you know, someone who's interested in investing with you, they want to learn about you in a way that's comfortable for them. So yeah, they may get on a Zoom call with me or we'll get coffee, but they'll feel like they're being sold to, right? what they want to do is they want to learn about you when they're comfortable. So I think the reading about you, reading how you write, how you think gives them a good idea of okay, this is, you know, gives them more comfort. Um so I think that's I think that's the one advice I can give is just start writing investment pitches and posting them and um there are some really cool online um online resources online websites you know value picker is really nice so I think if you're in India like posting on value picker and building a recognizable name would be great for any young investor in India >> so you kind of build your social capital which might translate in the luck and I understand that you want your LPS to learn about you. Yes. >> Or anybody who is you know your friend or someone to learn about you when they are comfortable not and nobody wants to get sold. >> Nobody even when I meet with a promoter in India >> I don't like being sold by them right. So I also do all my homework before I read all the annual reports. I read um their shareholder letters. I look at their interviews and I learn about them in a passive way. Same way I think any LP when they invest in a fund manager is doing the same kind of homework. What I love about all my investors, they all invest on their own. They all maintain their own personal accounts. So sometimes on the call, we'll talk about those investments. So it's also just like a fun friendship I have with them too. >> Is there any awkwardness is asking for money? >> I don't ask for money. >> Okay. Then >> um they come to me. >> Mhm. So in the US um there's certain funds um structures where you can't advertise. Um all you can do is um take inbounds. So I just take inbounds. Uh more recently I created a new fund where I can advertise but then once people want to invest we have to do way more verification checks. So I make that clear. I don't think I don't think I've ever gone to somebody and asked for money. I think what I see it as is someone reaches out to me saying hey this is an interesting topic um or this is an interesting fund would love to learn more I give them the access to letters and I let them ask me questions when they're ready so sometimes people ask me on the call sorry so someone will invest in the fund and then they'll tell their family talk to her so you know they'll get on the call with me and they'll tell me convince me my job That's not to convince you. You this has to be something you totally believe in because we're going to see crazy volatile years. You know, we have no guaranteed return on investment here. I can tell you my goals and my process, but I can't convince you. So, I don't see it as convincing. I just see it as like doubt clearing. >> Very interesting. So, you somebody comes to you with a belief and then you know you can just solve doubts for them. >> Yes. all all my investors love Warren Buffett and Charlie Mer. So, it makes it easy. But if someone doesn't love them, then they're confused what I'm doing. So, then it's I can try to convince them, but it won't it just it won't translate well. And uh it's actually really funny. My um I have a really close friend from growing up and um I was talking to um his mom and she said, "What's the guaranteed return?" I said, "There's no guaranteed return. It could be negative 70% every year. She looked at me horrified. This is how you're pitching. I said, "This is how I'm pitching. We're I'm super clear about how volatile this can get." >> All your investors love Warren Buffett, right? >> Yeah. >> And I know because you know you went to lunch with him while you were 12, right? >> Yes. What is something that you believe that about Warren Buffett that does not translate has not translated into all the books that have been written about him but you have picked it up from the stories from the lunch which nobody has understood. >> No, I think everything about him has been put online. I think the person who's a little bit more seek that people don't know as much about is Mer. But I think what I mean both Buffett and Munger have put so much of their time in the public domain that I don't think there's anything like I picked up on in private with him that's not on the internet. And this is actually what I um I think about a lot with when I meet when I'm with my dad and we meet other value investors and whatnot. The conversation is not so much about investing. It's more casual. where we maybe we'll talk about a company or two, but what they put in the public domain in a podcast or in their letters is so much more enriching. Um I' I've learned I even with my own father, I would say what I've learned from watching his videos versus what I've learned in the home, I think the videos carry a lot more wisdom. I think what he's taught me in the home is how to be a good parent, right? That's I think that's what he's he's been a great role model. He's a good parent um and a good human. But I think as a investor, I've learned more watching his podcast. >> And I think and I think I think that's um I think anyone and I think the internet is a powerful thing because anyone who watches a lot of YouTube can learn a lot. No, no. Thank you so much for doing this.