darl Lindy welcome to acquiring mins thank you will great to be here darl you bought a sign in awning business just a few months ago you closed sizable business 77-year-old business in the great state of Rhode Island a state that I spent some years in uh way back when and in addition to your acquisition you're also spearheading a couple of other initiatives that are uh near and dear to your heart and showing early signs of a lot of Promise so we're also going to hear about what those are but start us off please darl with some background on You background so it starts in 1992 well just joking around about that and but no I originally from Maryland Buie Maryland uh went to Naval Academy for undergrad uh graduated 2014 uh commissioned spent most of my time on active duty as a Navy Supply care officer so was dealing with Logistics procurement and it was there where I was working with a lot of small businesses you know trying to you know get things um you know for the Navy and kind of saw a big opportunity there so you know towards the end of my time in the Navy you know trying to figure out what I would do next in life uh decided that uh you know I could or figured out I could actually buy a business and was kind of hooked on it ever since so uh went to business school um did that did did a dual degree at the Kennedy School in MIT Sloan and uh throughout that process was always searching for an acquisition Target um happened to find one about 30 minutes where I lived which was pretty much my uh a radius that my wife was allowing me to do that in and uh uh jumped in so closed on July 7th and uh he has been about 110 115 days since then so but who's counting yeah I I am darl when you were in the Navy and you said you saw an opportunity and and that then you later learned about buying businesses connect those dots what what was this opportunity that you perceived while working in in supply chain in the Navy yeah no it was one of those things where I I saw a lot of you know older uh predominantly white men um you know that I was doing business with that uh it seemed pretty simple um they were you know selling things um um that you know obviously my sub or the Navy needed and it was one of those things where it's like well why can't I do that you know I've been on other side purchasing it um so can I be on the other side actually selling it um so uh it was one of those things where a lot of them um would joke after we developed relationship like hey if you're thinking about getting out or you know staying here in Hawaii or you know not moving you know maybe you can come byy this you know pretty uh yeah so it was just one of those things where they kind of planted the seed in my head a little bit oh interesting and these were all people who were doing well so you also saw not only a kind of I could do what they're doing but like a an attractive career in in what they had built or what they were running absolutely yeah it was something that you know the lifestyle was attractive um you know just you know I thought they were you know all pretty fulfilled in what they were doing um so um it was a combination um and it's just something that I was like hey let me let me jump into this cool uh and were were you somebody who had kind of um was predestined to be in business or to be an entrepreneur or was or were these this exposure to this kind of class of small business owner was that really your first inkling that you might be an entrepreneur you know what it it's really funny you mention that will um my uh grandfather um you know started a business um third generation right now so was always kind of familiar with the small business realm but just growing up in the DC area both my parents kind of working you know and you know government are profit it was one of those things where um I felt like I was never going to do it until I really got close to it um you know being in the Navy and kind of was like you know well why why not do this you know like what else am I going to do once I I get out of the Navy and this seems pretty fun and another challenge so great thank you I think you said that you were once in business school you were doing a dual degree you were doing an MBA MIT Sloan and the Masters of public policy at Harvard's Kennedy School did I get that right yeah public administration but you know public administration and so um but you went into these programs already feeling like you might buy a business so you were using your time there to learn about that so why the masters of public administration where does that fit into being an entrepreneur yeah that's a great question you know well I I think that um maybe there's a opportunity for me to you know pivot or kind of enter back into like government in some way um and you know really one of the the big things that was kind of always like a a driving thing in my life was just seeing like the like of um diversity and like who I was actually doing business with in the Navy you know who I was buying from and that that really bothered me and um if there were ways to you know kind of help um with the procurement process and that's something that I always wanted to jump into because I just felt it was so important um to me um so part of me doing the NPA was you know trying to figure out like if there was a way for me to you know eventually help later on um once I got some of this like you know small business you know operator um you know experience and you know understanding you know both sides of the the issues and hopefully trying to help it later on so while you're doing these programs and and you're at Sloan getting your your MBA you are learning about search taking ETA classes what does that look like what's your education look like you know it was kind of the dirt road path I was on search funer you know I was reading the books um you know many of which your guests have mentioned on here whether it's you know the hbr guy to buying a small business buy then build why should white guys have all the fun you know you read all these books and you're getting expired you're um you know the outsiders it's funny CU I was actually um uh reading The Outsiders and I know very serendipitous but was having lunch with the guy who it was his father as one of The Outsiders in the book so I'm like telling this guy you know hey um I'm really interested in you know buying a small business and you know right now reading this book called You Know The Outsiders and it's funny because like one of the guys you know in the book his last name is you know X and he's like yeah it's my dad so it's really really really funny um but it's one of those things where I think all these things you know inspired me and um one of the key things I want to drive at is just like um you I really feel like I enjoyed my time you know in grad school but in a sense I felt like it it slowed me down from what I'm doing right now um and I don't necessarily know if the the experience was like necessary for me to get where I'm at right now but I'm really happy that I I did it um so I think a lot that I learned whether it was from those books or utilizing the resources that I had in my network my my wife's a CPA so you know a lot of times when I was like doing you know initial you know DD on anything you know was showing it to her my father-in-law is a CPA as well too so you know I was kind of you know bouncing things off of him you I had other friends you know in the network or you know from listening to acquiring minds who I would you know contact and reach out to and you know I got to say too will that this podcast was actually you know really helpful to people in my family to listen to episodes and kind of convince them that this was like actually the right path for me like hey you know I can actually do this and um so want to say thank you for that um it's so great to hear yeah I mean to I forgot what the initial question was I I started to ramble so I'll let you that's okay so did I you back but I have I have some follow-up questions here darl so let's uh hear a little bit more about how as you reflect back you feel like your MBA was you're really glad that you did it but it wasn't you don't feel like it was actually necessary and it actually slowed you down a little bit because and maybe Orient your answer toward this fact that I do have a lot of people who on the Pod who have NBAs and NBAs often from you know just Sterling schools like your own but then I also have a lot of uh people who don't and I have a lot of listeners who maybe don't have you know an MBA from SLO or HBS and it's probably intimidating or alienating to feel like oh so do I have to have gone to a top 10 business school to do this thing how do you how do you answer them I mean absolutely not um you know I would say um there are so many resources out there and I know we'll get to you New Majority Capital later on in the interview but there are so many resources and um people um who I feel will be able to help in this process um for me um you know I only took like maybe like a handful like I would say like one or two classes during my entire three years that were really focused around you know buying a small business or you know operating it and you know they think that I'm actually you know doing this right now and you know how many other classes I had were necessarily on that topic you know it was really self-taught it was um outside of the classroom with the resources that I I mentioned before so um Ian I mean in short absolutely not um do not feel like you need to do that um if anything I think that it'll just slow you down and maybe you might be talked out of it you know because so many other people are not going that path in business school you know I think of my class from Sloan and there might be one or two other people who are actually like pursuing ETA right now so um you know the the masses are not doing this so you know if anything you know the connections that I make from listen or you know people who have been on this podcast or you know I work through New Majority capital or you know just you know talking to other people in SMB space to me is more impactful um than some of maybe the relationships that I have from people that I met at SLO just based on the kind of career path and what people are choosing to do afterwards man darl that is such a good point that has never occurred to me because I come at this from what I just said which is that there are a lot of people from NBA programs who are guests on the Pod and so you it feels like from where I'm sitting so many mbas are coming into this into ETA which I guess you know ETA is not a huge space and they they probably are over represented but if you look at it from the other side as you just articulated being in what in one of the business schools in one of these programs it's not like you know going into Investment Banking or Consulting everybody's going into ETA if you're in the business school it's still I guess a tiny sliver of your graduating class that chooses to do this so from an mba's perspective you're still doing something quite unusual quite adventurous quite off the beaten path do it fair very fairwell yeah that's so that's so interesting value of perspective okay and I also want to Circle back on two books you mentioned for by then build Harvard um Business Review uh guide to buying a small business which I looking at here on my desk U but you mentioned two others The Outsiders um where uh so so just indulge me I'm going to tell people what that book is in case they don't know and then you can tell us about the fourth book the um so The Outsiders Is by William Will Thorndike who is I kind of I don't I don't want to butcher this but in and around the search space himself um I think he's an investor in search deals and The Outsiders is a book of five or maybe six case studies s studies of uh you know unconventional CEOs who you know killed it um you know the and right um I'll let you kind of you know go through the uh the summary of that because I I don't want to butcher it because I've only I think read it once but um it's been a while yeah well and I I I I I listened to it um so so so so I'm no expert on the book but seven case studies of these CEOs who showed incredible return I think kind of judging by returns that they generated for their investors uh and one example is is it John Mone Maloney the guy who did who who was uh Comcast or Cox the early cable television Pioneer and a lot of his story is about acquisition and he's actually the guy who came up with the the the framework of IA he's credited as kind of the inventor of that term um so anyway the these it's a it's a case study of these seven um kind of historically overlooked CEOs who just generated incredible returns over long periods of time it's pretty dense and it's it's really it's truly they're truly like case studies so this isn't necessarily like you know uh a nailbiter it's more of like a methodical look at how they did what they did um and then the other book the other book darl is why should white guys have all the fun it's it's a book that's been mentioned here and here and there on this podcast but um but but uh tell us what that book is all about yeah it's a a book about uh Reginal Lewis um who was uh an acquisition entrepreneur who uh was formerly a lawyer you know doing a lot of stuff on the deal side and kind of just got into the game and uh um story is very inspiring um you know I I would really encourage uh listeners here to just uh pick that up on uh you know audio or you know hard copy however you consume your books but um to me it was really great um just kind of see someone like me you know do it totally you know so um I know you've had others on the podcast like Bruce fan and things like that so I really love those um you know people who I would say are you know predecessors to me in this game um you know who you know are doing it and you know are doing it well and you know kind of giving back to others too so totally awesome man yeah so this so why should white guys have all the fun also to to note um Reggie Lewis was active in the 80s so this is a this is a an older story um but he was wildly successful and at a time when you know he was the black community was much less represented than than even today and um yeah he just absolutely crushed it and that book has been an inspiration for many black and otherwise so this isn't just a book for you know you know ambitious African-American people to to read it's a it's a book for all of us it's really quite an inspiring story um so yeah great thank you for that darl so pick us up you're you're at Sloan and when does your search begin in Earnest yeah no so I think um at a certain point I I if I remember it correctly um I know my wife and I were like doing like this five-day hike in Brazil and like you know talking about like goals like you know into um the new year of uh 2022 and you know I still had a year and a half of business school left and um you know I was like I just need to you know do this now I just need to do the search and like my wife's talking about her goals too and I'm just like hey 2022 like I'm starting to search actively no more of this you know just you know networking and trying to like you know build up the context and you know figure it out like I'm doing you know self-funded search you know so got back from Brazil and you know actively started searching you know so um was still in school had three semesters left as I mentioned but was really organizing my day to where you know I you know was reviewing a certain amount of deals a day you know trying to do site visits you know plan my schedule around it um and just kind of be consistent um got my first deal under Loi um that may and it's uh it's so funny how uh things kind of come full circle um the first company I had under Loi it didn't actually pan out as far as an opportunity um is actually a current customer of mine um or our current uh uh client um so we're doing work for them which is just like so funny so I I actually like two weeks ago sent a picture to um the two former owners who uh have since then sold you know kind of just joking around saying you know hey it's it's come full circle you know um you know uh but um so yeah so I was actively looking um um for de Dar let me hop in why did you choose self-funded versus some of the other options namely traditional search fund um so I guess this is a key point so uh was stationed in Newport Island uh last Duty station and um I know you spent some time at Brown um my wife did not want to leave Newport so uh we've been here since uh 2018 and I just knew that you know Roo Allen was going to be home so um to me you I knew I had a very um small uh Geographic radius you know really wanted to find something that was you know 10 minutes away from where I live but I I landed on something that was 30 minutes away which I'm I'm super happy about um but I just knew the Geographic um like lack of flexibility that I had was one of those things that L me there and then you know also too with everything from um you know wanting to be you know the majority owner of the business that I was buying for you know purposes of just like you know control and you know being able to certify my business whether it's you know veteran owned or minority owned all those different things it kind of led me to the path that um doing self-funded was like the only way I could go yeah yeah makes sense and for people who don't know Newport Rhode Island is a lovely uh New England town there one of its big tourist attractions other than I guess the Boating and just the loveliness is I can't remember the name but there's um there are these the robber baron Mansions from from the um what's the name of that era the whatever the kind of I'm foret the Newport Mansions are amazing I don't the Newport Mansions yeah yeah yeah but uh I guess there might be other names for it um you know every time we have visitors who come my my wife does that activity with them I I kind of sit at home and work and do other things so Mansions are great um you know we love like the you know the the food scene here and just like there's always things going on here in Newport so we like the walkability that we have and but is it close enough to Pro the Metropolitan Providence rhod Island rhod Island's of course 40 minutes away um so could your search extend to Providence or no you know it it was technically it was um so you know as you as I told you during the preall I I bought in uh Warwick Rhode Island so about 30 minutes away so like I'm actually walking distance from the airport which is like pretty cool so you know walking walking to the airport yeah I've done it I've done I've walked to my flight um oh really so um so yeah so great great geographic location um I love um the business that I but is that cool and and Warwick is considered kind of Greater Providence that that does qualify the pro Providence metropolitan area just tell us more about um the search and and kind of how it how it unfolded yeah so you know I I think that um you know I was going through this and actively learning and doing so you know I kind of had these guides out that you know I was reading and talking to people and messaging on search funer and trying to ask questions and you know I connected with a couple people at that Point who you know I saw as mentors who you I was kind of um asking questions as I had them but you know to me it was just kind of like let me learn by doing so let me try to find a deal you know um you know the next goal of this process is to try to get under Loi and then you know so on and so forth so um the first uh deal that I found was for a ship maintenance company and you know I really like that aspect because like I understood the uh opport just based on my time in the Navy um so they were doing ship maintenance they had a fabrication division that they were making all types of uh Niche things for ships and then they also had a a generator division they were uh um selling and leasing um generators and you know got to Loi on that deal and um I think with just how much time I had left in school and this being like a year out um from when I was actually graduating I kind of had a little bit of cold feet you know it was just there were certain things where um um even though the company was um about 20 minutes away from where I lived a lot of the work they were doing was you know at shipyards whether it was up in Boston so it was really not the best Geographic fit for me um just based on like how diverse the the white or spread out the work was excuse me and um it was just like the first thing you know I was you know um a little bit uh like man wow like you know I said wanted to do this thing you know in January and here it is it's May and I have a deal already you know like this is like too soon with everything going on so um you know I think after talking to the sellers um and you know they had some apprehensions too um just with the way I wanted to structure the deal that it just made sense that you know we kind of won our own ways and there was no bad blood there um they actually found it strategic in this space to um end up acquiring them but but uh you know that showed me so much you know whether it was just like dealing with the Brokers you know you know you know drafting you know an L you know being able to put together like initial like structure like you know talking to like the banks and you know trying to figure out like financing where I felt like the learnings from that first one um just like it gave me a lot of confidence to say like hey okay cool you know um when the next one comes you know I'm ready but I'm more focused too because I know what things I I want to see and what I don't well that that's a great kind of Silver Lining uh positioning of a of a deal that doesn't come to fruition where you know that you can you just learn a lot going through the process even if you don't get it across the Finish Line not to say that all the you know brokenhearted Searchers out there who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on a deal that died uh I know that that's uh cold comfort um but there is but there is some value at least like like you like you experienced to going through the deal process uh because you you learn a ton at a turn so yeah and I think well to point to that too I think for me at that point I Had No Deal cost you know I um yeah um you know it was it was so early on um that like I didn't engage like any lawyers or qov like a lot of the stuff that I was doing was just within my network um but I felt like there was like a big um time suck so I wasn't like you know full happy that this happened you know I think about like my one of my semesters at school like I was like oh man like I wanted to search I started searching but then I missed out on all like the fun you know uh social aspect of school that you know um it's a big part of you know the gratitud school experience so to me it was really it wasn't you know um as fun you know when I was going through it but now I look back I'm like man it was it definitely was um uh a good experience and uh glad that I had that that first one underneath my belt yeah so you you were investing quite a bit of time even if you weren't putting any um money into it yet y okay so carry on so yeah so um at that point you know um the deal you know kind of falls apart and go my SE go my separate ways with the sellers and then it was like okay summer's coming um and um you know I was hoping to really close on a deal at some point like during the summertime so I could just like ease myself into the business and figure out how I was going to finish school um so I kept looking for opportunities um and uh I think the deal probably broke up maybe in May or so and you know I found the current um company that I acquired um in June actually found it in June so so um it's funny because it was F I found it on bis byell um and it was listed as like a niche manufacturer and um from my time spent with that first business that I mentioned them just having that like fabrication um division for the business I was like man this is really what I'm like looking for like something that you know if worse comes to worse you know I could always pivot like what I make whether it's some sort of like DOD application for it um you we could always you know switch it up um and I I um you request um The Sim after you know filling out all the NDA paperwork and um didn't get a sim I got like a an email uh from a broker which there was so much stuff that was like misspelled in this email I was just like this is not a real opportunity because I I think that um so far in my search like it was very uh somewhat just like systematic as far as what I was getting so this was like the first opportunity that it didn't look like what I had saw and I was like ah should I really go but after requesting it you know the broker gave me a call and we started talking and he gave me some more color and I was okay maybe this is like a really serious opportunity let me go and actually like look and explore the business so I get there and it's a it's a sign andoni manufacturer and I go in and it's funny because um we go I go after hours um probably around like 5:00 all the employees are not there and I see all the projects that are currently in production that are in this shop and I'm like wow this is everything that I've seen like in the community like things out in Newport things in Providence you know like I've seen these like businesses and I'm like man this is amazing you know just like signage like it's um you know an onings and things like that so I really fell in love I think with like the opportunity once I actually Tor the business so like one like big I guess like lesson or takeaway that I I think I had from that experience was just like man like if I had just like you know kind of threw the opportunity aside just because it wasn't packaged up in this like nice Sim you know with uh you know and you know all these you know bullet put pointed things that I might have missed this opportunity um so it's a great takeaway I I was just um looking at Biz by cell as one does this week and and came across a teaser that had misspellings in the title uh not to mention in in like the actual paragraph describing the business and I you know I had I of course my reflex was like no next but um but then I was then I kind of had you know then my logic kicked in and I I remember the point that you're making now which is like maybe there's opportunity here and precisely because other people are overlooking it for the same reason I was about to overlook it maybe there's even more opportunity here sort of thing um I'm I'm just very casually browsing um I wasn't serious about it but but there's actually um a parallel in real estate which you hear people say which is in a really competitive market if a listing has bad photos you know many home buyers just won't even take a second look and so but it may just be that the that the listing agent wasn't very good didn't didn't you know invest in professional photos and that there could be a real find there um yeah so so totally no no AB absolutely so um we we go and um you know I'm kind of looking at this business and um you I'm seeing all the different you know ways that touches like just like the the community and I'm like man this is super impressive um and um like I was excited like I felt like there was like a um there was a um an opportunity there that I like it just clicked it was like a different feeling than from when I saw like the first opportunity or other opportunity um it just a different feeling so I I got the sense that I was like this is something that I can actually jump in and do and I I don't know it's like a a weird feeling that I guess you can't really describe but it I was like more confident at that point to like actually move forward with the acquisition than I was with other things even though I had um you know questions around like the financials and like the presentation and everything that we'll we'll get into um in a second I assume um but yeah it was one of those things where I was like hey you know maybe I saw it on like a a Tuesday and I was like hey do you mind if my wife comes by you know tomorrow or Thursday and she does like a tour too so she kind of understands and sees the opportunity and then um you know the next up really was trying to get to some sort of deal with the seller and and was it the fact that you saw these awnings and signs under production you saw that they were the names of local businesses and you saw that it was kind of by you know by the nature of what it does it's it was it's really kind of in mesed in the local business Community or or was it more that you just kind of thought you saw it and you were like this seems kind of fun to be in here or like I can do this like it it seemed more accessible than like a ship building maintenance business where there's a lot more specialized knowledge presumably yeah yeah no I I think it's a combination of everything you listed like well I saw myself like actually being the owner of the business for like the multitude of reasons you just listed um so you I think it's ful like when you can like visualize something really I mean it's um so I think I was able to just like visualize it more for all of those reasons okay so you're you're excited about it uh you want to show your you show it to your wife H so then I assume the deal starts you start moving forward with the deal yeah start moving forward the deal it was funny because um so my uh my wife maybe a day or two later she got like the same tour that you know um I did of the business was able to see a lot of the you know same things that I saw um you maybe at a later stage of production you know that I mentioned to her like you know a day or two prior um and just you know understanding oh man like I I know this business I know that business and like oh man this is this is really cool and we got to the point where um you know she got the same tour as I as I and then um we met again the seller broker and I and kind of talked about like initial like you know deal like high level um I had put together something based on um the numbers that were presented to me and you know kind of like just how I felt you know assigning like a 3X multiple to discretionary earnings um and um was like Hey you know I would love to buy the real estate too in the deal and you know we could talk about that piece and um tried to get to a a deal with the seller and it was really that was that was a little bit more intimidating to me um just because um this opportunity um what it was listed at on bis by cell was a lot higher and I feel like if anything what the broker presented like made it seem like it was worth a lot less but then when I got and saw the business I was like okay well there's some like sort of Middle Ground here between what it was presented as on bis bu or or what the the seller wanted for it versus what the broker presented it as and like me actually you know kind of seeing it um you know In the Flesh so um yeah can you give us some some stats of the business in terms of numbers and head count yeah so um the 2021 discretionary earnings were right around 645,000 um so um felt comfortable going in at a a 3X multiple for that um the seller had appraisal in the real estate done um and uh one piece of that was going for uh 1.6 so uh felt comfortable um with with that and you know kind of was like Hey if the you know the real estate doesn't appraised for that value then you obviously we would you know have to figure out how to make that work but um it did appraise for that um plus more so felt felt good about that it was just that when I get to the point where I'm you know uh um making uh the offer um it was uh well hey there's this other component of the business you know that uh uh you should know about uh all all of our customers don't pay by uh uh a and uh credit card or wire I'm like what do you what do you mean and I guess the listeners here can kind of read through the lines because I think this is something that is probably pretty common um with small businesses especially ones that have been around for a while um that um you there's some cash um so it was very uh you know difficult for me kind of this like you know the former Navy Supply officer who like you know got audited and like you know like more by the book to like you know kind of be presented with this information that like and hey we're a little bit better than we're actually kind of presenting because of this and it it was funny cuz like um I don't know how scripted this was but like owner like kind of pulls out like a lot of cash you know and uh you know kind of showing me that like hey yeah you know so I care if when you become owner you will be carrying around giant rolls of hundreds um so so it's a very cashy business so yeah so if a cash heavy business is yeah there's kind of there's kind of a lot of of flags around that it it's um typically well I'll correct you quick I don't know if that's necessarily a cash heavy business I I just our customer base is very diverse and some people prefer to pay with cash but when you but there's a lot of actual cold hard currency flowing in an out business more than more than you might be used to and so there are a few concerns there first is that that gives a small business owner the opportunity to under report their income so you know they they're making an extra1 or $200,000 in Revenue that they don't report because it's not tracked anywhere because it's in cash and so you have to cons figure out how to weigh that um and then you have to just yeah you have to have to have to wonder if that has been a temptation of the sellers and if the seller therefore has other Temptations like and then also if there's a difference in valuation because if there's enough cash going through and they've really under reported that cash and they're telling you oh no actually we do I'm just being arbitrary here a million dollars in Revenue not 800 that we report to the IRS what are you buyer supposed to do with that information are you supposed to give them credit for a million or credit for what their tax you know what their tax return says 800,000 so it's it's very it's it's a complicating Factor um and it's just yeah it's just not very buttoned up like you said you're used to a very kind of audited buttoned up process from the Navy so these these I'm I'm kind I'm I'm kind of taking your point and running with it but does that feel right like about how you were reacting yeah no ABS absolutely it felt right and I guess my bigger concern was like well how do I you know convey this point in a very sensitive way to like you know the you know bank that I was looking to you know get an SBA loan with you know and you know um that that was that was the biggest concern when I'm like presenting this offer and I'm just like hey well we you know what will what will they see because I i' never gone through you know the SBA like you know due diligence before and um um was was worried about that PE and darl does a seller who has a significant percentage of their revenue coming in as cash do they want to get credit for that meaning when when they go to you know when you go to do evaluation and in kind of an offer price are they insisting that you know the extra 100 or $100,000 in cash that comes in every year um that that you that you account for that in your in your offer I think the owner was kind of giving this information to me like like hey you know this is a good business you know because of this also um and um like you know it's it's not going to really be reflected you know but like you should feel feel even more confident SL you know move forward with this opportunity because of this um do I I also think that there was some sort of well like hey can we you know move this offer because of you know the outside uh uh cash and um you know to me I was just like hey I don't really know I mean like the end of the day like we're going to be going off of like tax returns and like you know what you kind of have and this is what the bank is going to be using to you know underwrite you know the business and um you know you kind of already you know got credit for this also too you already you know so like you can't you getting trying to get credit on it you know on the the back end as well too when you when you sell it's a little bit hard so um you know I think I kind of had to continue to reiterate that and it was one of those things things where um later on I'll I'll talk about like the the kind of the formal I guess deal structure but there was a significant amount of the deal that the seller had to take on a note and like to me you know it's just like well that's because of you know your your earlier dealings you know you you might have been able to avoid that if you you didn't do that the way you did okay well well maybe now is a time well before we get into the deal terms darl can you tell us how a little bit more about the business how many people and the it's it's history it's an old business yeah yeah old business um uh the uh founder Al Andrews 1946 uh the the owner that I bought it from actually bought it out of probate court from um bought it out of probate court but uh currently when I bought the business we were about like at 25 employees or so so a decent amount um of employees the split between signage and awnings yeah about 7030 so 70% signage 30% awnings and the awning is that all commercial business or is there some residential for the awnings some residential retractable awning so it's a very small piece I think it's a great opportunity for us to to do more so one of the things that I'm I'm looking um at but a very small piece of that are residential awnings so it's mostly a a a B2B business yep and how did you get comfortable with the nonrecurring nature of of buying a sign if I'm a business I only need to buy a sign or an awning once every however many years well it's it's so crazy I mean I think that you know initially I was like reoccurring Revenue but you know to me I was like the Project based stuff like it's all over and it's like you know to me um whether this is you know schools or universities hospitals um like our our client base is so wide or who we we touch so I was like everyone needs a sign where you at and when you when I looked at like the the landscape of just like Rhode Island like it was one of the only places to really go so it was it was um you know really cool just based on um the nature of the work um we can do everything from um the design to installation so like we're full service so um a lot of other places aren't so um definitely Advantage we have but uh I got comfortable with it will because was all over it was needed and I I just saw the opportunity so I was like there's always going to be um work um for this business well and and it's the longevity of the business also of course is a testament to its its uh enduring profitability the you had said that there's other there's kind of nowhere else to go in Rhode Island meaning it's a leader in the market in Rhode Island is that what you been yeah yeah no I would I would say um there's been some consolidation industry uh some closures I mean um this is really a trade so there are a couple like you know maybe smaller shops you know couple individuals that you know owner ready to retire or employees were older shut down or there was a there was actually um an acquisition of one of our largest competitors maybe like four or five years ago by an out ofate player so um there I I I guess my my point is is that um it's an industry that is NE it's needed um but there is not a lot of options in the industry so I um yeah so I felt pretty comfortable because of that too yeah well that that sure is a um uh nice defensible powerful place to sit M the so let's hear about the deal I I definitely we we still got a ways to go in your story darl and so I'm mindful of time but I want to hear how operating has gone and of course I want to get to your other projects as well so let's get into the the terms of the deal and we'll keep rocking here yeah yeah no so um uh the deal structure changed up a lot you know I um at one point um I mentioned there was real estate involved and there's actually another piece of uh property that was part of the deal that I had to do a conventional loan with so had two deals going on simultaneously an SBA 7A loan and then like a conventional Alan but uh ended up um getting to the point where um you know my My Equity injection for the deal um ended up being about like 400 and somek um and then the seller took a a note um for 530k and then um the rest of it um was debt and so I'm including like you know the working capital that I um or I guess post deal you know got working capital obviously but um it was it was a struggle cuz I initially the way I was structuring the deal um the seller was going to have like part of um his note on full standby and he was 78 years old so he was just like I'm not going to do this if you know it's going to take me you know 18 years or whatever it is to you know get fully paid out so that was that was one thing that we had had to work our way through um um but yeah we we did and um you know his note is uh over a fivey year is a fiveyear note and um over fiveyear period and uh it's only it's on standby for two years so um that's how we end up dealing with it so great and so your offer was about 3x on 645k so that's 1.3 approach in $2 million for the just for the business mhm uh right around 2 million and then 1.6 for one piece of real estate and then there actually was another piece of real estate yep and you and you dealt with those two trans you said two transactions going on at once so one was straight real estate purchas the other the business and what you just shared with us was all about the business 500,000 seller know okay and on on the real estate is that something where there's like less negotiation that was kind of just a more straightforward transaction is there anything to sh say there or share with the audience yeah um on the other piece of real estate uh no it just a kind of conventional um loan I mean um that to me um was a little bit more straightforward um but it was my first time like you know doing that as well too so it was a learning process but lot less complicated than the actual business acquisition darl now this is something I should know and don't really am not that familiar with but um aren't there ways of doing 7A loans where it's a single loan but it's Blended between the business acquisition and the real estate but it's a but it's a single loan or absolutely and just just to clear it up because I don't I don't think I was very clear so um the two pieces of real estate one was operated by a tenant on a trip net lease so I wasn't able to do a 7A loan because of like the space occupancy and um like not it was a separate you know parcel land but it was one those things where the seller wanted to you know kind of completely you know uh tie up his or clean up his estate um so he was like Hey know you either buy the business or you buy um everything um but I'm not going to just sell you one piece of real estate and then have this other piece of real estate um so um I was I was okay with that and yeah had to figure out how to get a deal done um but yeah um wasn't able to use a 7A um for that other piece of Real Estate so so when Real Estate can be under the umbrella of a 7A loan is when that real estate is part of the business exactly yeah okay okay exactly I need to uh be educating myself on on how that all that works okay anything more to say about the uh kind of the colorful nature of of uh this transaction um in in the yeah in the acquisition itself or should we move on ope no no I think um um nothing else other than this deal takes such a long time because of the constant nature of it changing um you know initially you know um the seller and I um well I was on assumption that hey I could just buy like the real estate and business and I think part of this was kind of like maybe the seller playing some games or having some sellers remorse like you know getting into like a deal and just like kind of like hey you know I'm still like what else am I going to do with my life you know you know 78 like should I really be selling and um you know I think he was kind of having cold feet but at the same time too like I wasn't necessarily in a super big rush to close because I wanted to kind of tie this time this up for like after I was like gra graduated so I knew I was graduating in like May so we were both kind of in this like hey like we want to make a deal happen but you know the the structure was constantly changing and there wasn't necessarily like a big push from either of our end in a sense um like looking back well lucky lucky you darl because does isn't it uh that time is supposed to kill all deals and yet in this case in this case both parties were happy to let it drag on for their own reasons and it still worked yeah great um and in circling back a little bit uh or a lot a bit to your to your MBA and you had mentioned your wife and your father-in-law being um CPA both I think yep is that right yeah um you had said on the preall that that in terms of your the knowledge that you felt you needed or lacked uh with respect to buying a business was specifically on finance stuff and you had but you had your wife and father-in-law in your personal Network to help you uh with those gaps um so maybe fill in the gaps there were you leaning on them heavily how much fin Financial Acumen do you feel like you you want needs to do a deal well yeah I think I think you know even before understanding the finances I mean I think you have to understand how the business works right the financials is really just telling the story of how like the business works and I think that for me um one of the things that I should have done a better job with and I didn't do is I never went and actually saw operations during like operating hours for the business you I would you know go in after hours and you know spend time with the seller or maybe spend time like doing surveys in the weekend like kind of understanding how he was looking to like uh measure projects or like quote projects um but just understanding like how um the business was like working was one thing that I I didn't necessarily do so even to like my wife and father-in-law in a sense you know I would tell them things but not necessarily having like a full understanding of the business you know what I'm telling them you know they're not necessarily you know fully looking cuz they don't necessarily they're they're a sense removed in a sense too so um there were some things that I missed in due diligence like one of the things that um you know um I mentioned to you during a preall was that the seller um you know kind of made it a practice to like early invoice project so um in a sense you know we have this like big Awning or sign job done you know let's say the project maybe had a week or two to complete you know I'm just using like a random time frame he would invoice it in the hope that he would be able to like collect payment for the project simultaneously on delivering the project now we know that for whatever reason you know there might be a case where you know work doesn't go as fast as you think it would or you know maybe you're not able to install the project because of X Y and Z or you know whatever Act of God happens and there were a lot of things that were early invoiced um whether it was intentional or malicious you know the fact of the matter is it was just early invoiced um so those were things that maybe like you know inflated the financials um and those were things too like at close because I bought the business you know ball sheat clean where um the seller kept receivables where there were projects that were you know early invoiced that he's trying to collect payment on I'm like well hey it's still in the shop here like I'm still doing work on it I haven't installed it like hell no you're not like collecting payment on that that's like mine you know so um it's stuff like that where I feel that my father-in-law and my wife were able to you know look at the numbers and kind of tell me what questions to ask but like as far as understanding like the practice of the business they missed that you know and like I missed it too and I think really if it would have been someone who would have been able to like you know marry all of it um together um it would have been better for me to just like know and just have a better grasp on so a big fan of people doing qvs and kind of getting you know people who are knowledgeable of the space to get in there because the end of the day my my wife and my father-in-law are they they're auditing like larger you know uh you know forun 500 companies they're not necessarily doing small business you know on uh in Warwick and you feel like a q of a formal third party Q of would have caught this or or was it you go showing up during actual working hours would have caught this or you would have both it's a it's a combination right I think I think it's I think it's a combination of of it and I I think for end of the day you know it's obviously some sort you know even bringing in a third- party provider they're somewhat removed in a sense too so I I think it was really on me to have a better understanding of you know what the business was so I could have asked the questions just to or you know you know told someone that hey you looking through this for me great call out darl all right let's move into operations here talk to us about how the transition went just give us kind of that story yeah so transition I think uh um you know day one um we closed on a Friday um you know seller it's like hey you could come in today but like actually let's do this on a Monday no one at this point had known that I had actually bought the company so it was kind of like a secret so um you know I was like okay cool wa what time do I show up he's like let's do it 7:45 um I'll gather all the employees around and you can make your introduction as the new owner of the business so uh prepared you know a speech to the team which I thought went pretty well as far as like who I was you know why I was buying a company like what I wanted to do um you know who um values things like that that I had um and um it went pretty well I felt like I I had people you know come up to me and like say congratulations like you know I really felt something when you were you know speaking like you know I'm pretty excited about this and then I would say the transition after day uh one was definitely not what I expected um you know things like um the business was owned in a trust by the seller and his wife and you I found out that you know the seller was no longer with his wife and that the person who was actually doing all the bookkeeping and accounting uh he might or may not have been in a relationship with this person so there were certain things like that where I was like oh shoot now what did I get into it's always the bookkeeper yeah yeah yeah it's always I know it's not like know it couldn't yeah no it wasn't yeah it was always so and it's um but it was it was funny to me because what I would do things like we have a third party that we I use for um like tech services and they were like you know get I went over you know get on like the network and um you know get email all that stuff set up on my computer they're like well if you ever terminate someone you got to let me know beforehand and he said it like four or five times like who do you think I'm going to terminate I just like you know so it it was funny because um um you know I ended up having to move you know forward without you know that that bookkeeper um and your MSP your it person predicted that that's what that's what they were saying between the lines exact exactly so um but you know the the relationship I think got pretty you know contentious with the seller and I you know after a week or so by um uh or not even a week or so maybe a couple days into it um just because of um some of the things you know that you know I saw it was happening as far as um the accounts receivables and I'm like hey you ear invoiced all this stuff like like why you know and it's still here and then you know the fact that there was one point in our agreement that I thought we were pretty clear on where um it was customer deposits uh the way our industry works is uh you know customer will put down a 50% deposit before any work has commenced on the job and for whatever reason whether it's waiting for permits um or you know just you know work to commence maybe we're working with a general contractor and like there's somewhere you know in this uh worklow pipeline that we can't necessarily start what we're going to do because we're waiting for them to get to a certain point there were a lot of projects that the seller had collected deposits for and was not willing to turn over and you know just just being a Project based industry and I knew we kind of had a moving Target as far as you know where when we were closing you know I was like hey well there might be a customer deposit that you collected but let's say that work is 90% completed you know obviously you use that customer deposit to buy materials you know you know pay you know um you know staff to do work kind of makes sense for you to keep that deposit you know but the other hand there was like this category and it was so large it was hundreds of thousands of dollars that no work had commenced and I'm I'm just like this guy has no intention for actually giving me the customer deposit I was like this is this is crazy so I'm still actually working out all that stuff um with the seller right now it's been pretty painful um you know obviously you know I have the sellers note that I mentioned too so I guess the worst case scenario you know can um offset there but um it's just one of those things where um I um you know I think that if I was actually spending time in the business beforehand you know maybe would have been able to you know catch that as being an issue um you know versus you know kind of only spending time in the afternoon or um you know the weekends with the seller well it raises the question darl if if like there's a best practice here because so many small businesses are Project based despite the fact that we all want recurring Revenue the reality is that many many many small businesses are are Project based and they all must experiened this you buy you as the business buyer you know there's 50 streams of work going on 50 projects going on when you inherit the business all at various percentages of completion and like how to account for that um so so I wonder if there yeah I'm just kind of thinking out loud I wonder if there's a best practice here or is it just as simple as kind of catching it initially and going through project by project by project and getting agreement on how what percent completion it is is and how much of that money you know is you know and then kind of splitting splitting the money yeah yeah commensurately agreed will I think every situation might be different I mean there's projects that we have that might be only you know $1,000 but then we have projects in the hundreds of thousands of dollars so there there's a definitely a big range here um so you know I would I would say yeah I mean that's a useful activity um but it's always kind of like a moving Target depending on like where you're at with closing so it's also like a very complicated you know because of the timing yeah totally yeah great Point what did you find in terms of the culture of the business oh man so I think that was one of like the big things that I was actually able to like improve on um like right away I mean um to me um the the culture it it's funny because I'm in the process of uh uh doing a Rebrand right now and um you know I'm trying to be able to get like a a good grasp of like who we're we are right now but um uh in a sense like when I took over the business there was a lot of um what I would say just like chaos and finger pointing um and um you know I think the the the culture for me um was one that was you know very tense there wasn't necessarily um uh any like process um uh it it was uh yeah it it was just like not an environment that like I would ever want to work in for like a a long period of time and it was just crazy that I had like a lot of employees who had been there for a lot a long time and there's some people who um you know this the scientist industry you know is uh not that large who had left and went other places um and um you one of my big things was like Hey like let's get you know good talent or people who uh used to be here um and for whatever reason they maybe had like a disagreement um with the previous owner or we're unhappy of things not necessarily changing like let's figure out like how to get this like good talent you know back in So been pretty successful on that front um um of bringing some like you know key people whether they're Fabricators or people in our department uh back um in the business um and uh got a GM in place as well too um but it's yeah the the culture was not a very good one well um and darl what are you doing to so quickly so as you said you're 100 115 days in so coming up on four months What specifically have you done to make it a more attractive place to work and and and uh recruit some some of your previous defectors recuit some of your defectors well no I think one it's um it's been you know actions and I mean I know it sounds corny like my my day one speech was only like a minute or two long I mean I don't necessarily think that people like are really going to um you know uh listen to that I guess they'll see the actions but um what one thing I do like I I'll have like a lunch every month you know um for you know the entire team we'll bring the team together it's about like 29 people now 29 30 people and you know they never had that before they never like the previous never bought the lunch and they never were able to like you know collectively like talk about like hey where we at with things as far as you know our goals and Visions you know get some input you know so small things like that which I think have been just like super impactful um but I mean I generally just feel like I care will um you know so like I I had uh I know small things I mean I you know I had uh uh one uh one guy who recently just um had surgery for uh pancreatic cancer so I was able to grab dinner with him like you know two days ago and um he's still out right now but I think it's like things like that where um like I generally showing you care yeah it's just showing you care and just like you know being able to like listen and um you know take feedback and just try to implement things that you know make sense and um I think people appreciate that because I don't know if they were necessarily ever being listened to before well darl I'm struck because you seem pretty relaxed about this but it it it doesn't sound like the worst transition I've I've heard absolute nightmares it doesn't sound like yours was like this at all but that that it was that there was some challenges and you walked into a culture that wasn't super organized or hospitable um but you seem pretty pretty uh okay with how things are going am I reading you right yeah I think you're reading me I think I'm super optimistic I I mean like the month of July I I had a my daughter first kid was born like literally like 10 days after I closed the business was like this time yeah I know this timing is like not the greatest but yeah know I feel like I've I've been punched in the face a couple times during the acquisition but you know I'm super duper like energized by the team the people like where we're going um so yeah I mean I I think I'm counting the days because I'm like looking at my 100 day plan and like kind of saying like how many things I haven't gotten done that I want to get done but I'm just like I am super um appreciative of like what we've been able to accomplish so far um so that's great congratulations well actually and also something you've accomplished so far is hiring a GM uh so tell us about that a little bit listeners are always really eager to understand how they can start working on rather than in the business what does it look like in your case yeah my case you know it fell into my lap as one of those things where um you know I think um a kind of just like being able to like listen and get input and I felt like one of my big gaps with the acquisition especially since you know I have this contentious relationship with the seller was just like knowledge of the industry like I you know at one point you know I we were uh um I bought the business and like the the owner like maybe in the first like day or two is going over like an awning job with me and was talking about a valance I'm like Googling I'm like what the hell is a valance you know so like it's one of those things where I'm like learning about the industry and um you know I feel that um it was key for me to have someone who was able able to provide um a little bit more of like the technical expertise and like kind of covered down in several facets of the business um so it's funny because um it was happened since um you was uh dealing with suppliers you know who kind of come in and want to introduce themselves as they know the business was sold and um one of the suppliers who came in to introduce himself end up being someone who was just like hey you know if there's ever uh if you ever saw like you know um you know a need or you know have like a you know an operations guy or like a GM like you know I would be pretty interested in that and it kind of kept in the back of my head um and continue to develop a relationship you know with this you know supplier and just like kind of you get to know like who he was and like you know understand like you know what he brought to the table and like get feedback from others on you know whether he would be a good addition to the team and um yeah he's been on board for a little bit over a month now and it's um it's been absolutely great I'm at I'm at home right now I'm going to go in after we're done with this interview but it's uh definitely good to have uh some that of flexibility and I think too um one thing I didn't mention will was that my father actually retired uh from his job and he's been up here um you know helping me out in the business too um you know sometimes you know you working with family you know there's uh you know there's there's definitely frustrations and I I think sometimes I'm like oh man is like my dad like actually like trying to help me or is he trying to like hurt me like what is what is he trying to do but uh he genuinely has my my best interest in mind and um it's it's been good to have like good people around me trying to help accomplish the mission I love that man I love I love that your dad's helping you in the business of course uh there's going to be stepping on each other's Toes or I I should say he's just stepping on your toes because you're the protagonist here so there's no stepping on his toes but uh but I know that's it's just great um well great so and then hiring the so the hiring the GM kind of you weren't even expecting that and so have you felt a material difference in you just kind of being able to focus on strategic stuff much earlier than you thought absolutely I I feel a big difference I feel that you know right now um since we're we're Project based you know it's um I mean our processes are so important you know to be able to you know get jobs out in a timely ma manner you know um because because when I when I first you know um you know bought the business it it was crazy how much you know jobs were just like sitting in the shop or just like being held up for like different reasons and just like man this is cash that could be in the bank you know cuz once we actually get this thing installed we're able to wrap up the project we're able to invoice the customer right away so trying to you know clean up those processes so we can just become more efficient and um you know deliver to the customer f F so I I felt a huge difference since he's been on board darl stepping back a little bit just to reflect on now being a small business owner I want to ask you two related questions as context running a small business is difficult is hard some people are become are very overwhelmed by it even if they know it's going to be hard once they actually get into it um they it's harder than they thought it would be how hard do you think it is in your experience so far and maybe kind of followup to that is how relevant do you think your military supply chain your your Navy supply chain experience has been yeah no I I think the first question um how hard has it been how hard did I think it was going to be um I thought this was going to be a lot easier just based on like my form experiences as like an you know na officer um and it's been a challenge I think the timing of it just like how many different things whether it's like the legal component with the seller that I'm dealing with right now like the personal family component with my daughter being born um just trying to figure out like how I should like best be spending my time like you know working with my dad for the first time like there's all these different um challenges that I I don't think anything can really prepare you for you just have to kind of get in there and do it and be committed to figuring it out out um and I think that's what my my navely experience taught me you know like there's no like book for this you know even though you mentioned the books at the beginning of the thing I mean I remember um one of the first books they gave us at the Naval Academy was like message to Garcia um and you know I always stuck with me even though I don't even know if I really fully read it um but the the summary for it was kind of like you just got to figure it out um and maybe I'm I I might be bushing that uh takeaway cuz I I don't know if I fully uh the book but I think for me like everything is just like hey we'll figure it out I mean no challenges you know insurmountable um there are resources I mean there are things that we progressively will get better at and figure it out and I think if you have that mentality you'll be successful at it even though you know i' I've talked to people who this hasn't worked out for and there's things that are outside of your control but I think that um even what talking to them it's kind of like hey they they'll get on the saddle again and and and and and do another one and figure it out because I think this is all like you can all figure it out you can you really can darl anything more to say about your story before we hear about New Majority Capital yeah um I I can't um I can't like tell listeners enough like how much fun I'm having like this is this is fun to me like it it is cool like you know being in working with the team and like end of the day like you got to be having fun doing this stuff right and I think you should like know like down you know in your heart whether or not you feel like you're going to be having fun leading people figuring big problems out like you should know like and I think that was part of me like that I knew from like the Navy like hey I had like fun doing this but um like man you got to you got to have fun with it and you got to know you're going to have fun with this because if you don't like it's it' be miserable like you know like I think some people like my my wife lover her she like she probably wouldn't enjoy this as much like dealing with all the people issues and like the the chaos and you know the stress of it you know um but I think it's fun so a glutton for pain no no no not I don't no I I don't think that's what it is darl I think we just all have different things that we grav to and and your point is that we this has a very distinct character to run a small business and you got to really look deep to make sure that that that the character of what this is is compatible with what you like and how you like to spend your time absolutely so tell us darl about New Majority Capital yeah no will this is you know I I think the other like side of me is like hey I'm living this but I also want to create a framework for other people to do this I think it's so important for us to um get um more um I don't know if I necessarily want to use the word you know underrepresented but maybe like non-traditional people who are in the space you know I think about like the other business owners I've interacted with whether or not um they've been in the Navy you know are you know currently you know with this acquisition and they don't look like me um like you know it's crazy like in Rhode Island right now I think they're like 168 like business owners with employees who are black you know and I think like that's like a crazy number or Stat for me like um and it shouldn't be that way so you know with new majority Capital you know our our goal is to um you know increase the number of uh women bipac entrepreneurs um through small business Acquisitions and uh we have a for-profit entity we have a foundation um I'll start with our foundation our foundation we run um a 10we course to uh help entrepreneurs from A to Z to go through this process of buying a small business and I think the beauty of it is that um the course uh created with uh um some bapson faculty and you know my co-founders who um you know have co-founders who have acquired as well like this is like through our experiences like hey like what do you need to know like how do you get there and uh we ran our first inaugral cohort in Providence we had three entrepreneurs in the cohort who've successfully acquired um since we have a cohort right now that we're running down in Atlanta um that just started back in September so hoping to get more of these Acquisitions um you know going you know people who are able to like help others and then on the for-profit side um raising a fund to be able to uh Finance these Acquisitions I mean I was very fortunate in my acquisition to be able to use a VA home loan and then uh take out Equity from my house and use that as you know the injection to you know do a deal but so many people are not fortunate and you know I think about it and I'm like hey man like this seller would have had an issue trying to sell a business um like because it's it's hard I mean it's hard for multiple people to be able to Source Capital so um you know why not make this a win-win you know help you know business owners who are looking to transition their business um you know do it to a new generation of entrepreneurs who ready to take it on and um that's kind of like the entire goal of what we're doing so um super jazzed up I feel like it's like the other side of me because I uh you know being an operator and you know owner you know all the lessons learned and things like that I'm channeling in it and like trying to bring it back to like New Majority Capital so we can just improve this for the people after us that's really that's just so cool darl and so couple follow-ups there so you in your first cohort Providence you've actually had three Acquisitions come out of that M that's great I mean that that's that's really the that's kind of the KY yeah three of 29 so over 10% and that's just of course maybe some other of those will we we'll get across the Finish Line later absolutely yeah that that's phenomenal and this is you said 10 weeks so this is is a 10 weeks part-time full-time give people some more color on what it looks like 10 weeks part time I mean you know we're kind of averaging about 10 to 12 hours of like total work for a a fellow going through the cohort uh but the way we structure it is that we have uh uh two uh virtual sessions on uh Monday and Thursday you know every week and then um other 10 weeks and then we have some uh in-person sessions that are scattered throughout about three inperson sessions um throughout the program so on average is about 10 to 12 hours a week that uh people going through the cohort spend um on our programming that's that's um that's great and and so you have go ahead you know I was going to just say well the goal is that actively people are looking at opportunities and we're helping them through the opportunities that they're looking at um through the course so um that's why so the model is not like by the end of it they start looking at SIMS you want them looking at Sims for the duration and a lot of this is kind of workshopping actual live deals absolutely and you said you have a cohort going on in Atlanta right now yep and and earlier this week yeah earlier this week uh doing some work with the cohorts and I'm sorry I interrupted you no that's great and and how many people are in Atlanta in this cohort uh we have 37 right now oh and I think you told me that you were also going to launch one in my backyard here in DC that's the plan and next year yep absolutely so we'll be down in DC um in February so uh applications and all that stuff will open up um sometime in December um so definitely we'll post a a note on the uh the Show links or I don't know what you call it actually for that show notes excuse me uh later on and darl just circle back to something you said about you used uh home equity uh line home equity from your home and you were able to buy your to buy your business and you were able to buy your home because the VA loan so you feel like you've benefited from these kind of programs that you you know otherwise wouldn't have had access to Capital and so you're a believer in kind of that things like that can can really move the needle and and help individuals in a concrete way absolutely ABS I'm living proof of it right now you know um buying a Newport I guess uh a while ago it was a good decision so um and succession ready have you already talked about succession ready or is that yeah no no I haven't so like that's the other side of this coin um another program that we uh uh developed and delivered um and really this is for the business owner who is you know thinking about transitioning from their business how can you you know get the most value for your business what do you have to do to put yourself in position to exit successfully um so that's been great we ran a cohort of that um back in Providence last fall had uh about 21 uh business owners who were in that cohort um average business about like $3 million you know as far as Topline and great you know uh opportunities um so you know you know we're we're kind of thinking our future goal is like you know this is a win-win if we can kind of help you know people from succession ready and then people from our other group uh beta um that we were talking about before we can kind of marry these two groups up um it's a win-win and um absolutely you know make Society a little bit better with Place fantastic darl what is is there anything that we haven't touched on that you wanted to get a chance to say yeah no I I um you know one right now continuing to raise um for um fun one for New Majority Capital so you know I know like my biggest like call to action after listening to this if you're someone who you know maybe is thinking about this and um you know of yourself or people in your network who would be interested in you know being an LP and our fun one um you know please uh reach out um but at the end of the day too I I I can't reiterate enough like you don't have to go to business school to do this um but like please kind of believe in your heart that it's like the right thing for you to do because it's so tough um if it if it's not you know so um and it's fun if it is um and uh a lot of resources and and people that will help you out um so um and I'm one of them so don't hesitate to reach out and on that point darl What's the best way to do that Daryl d a r y l New Majority capital.com great I'll also link to your LinkedIn uh in the show notes is that do you check LinkedIn I know that's how we first connected so I I guess you do yeah yeah no I do I do check in LinkedIn so you can you can hit me on LinkedIn on no other social media though you you w't find me on Instagram or Twitter or anything like that okay so darl Lindy this has been great thank you very much for for coming on sharing the story being transparent telling us about uh not only your business acquisition but but your other your other projects new new majority Capital Chief among them which uh sounds like it's something that that has the potential to have a whole lot of impact absolutely thank you will for the time really appreciate you keep doing what you're doing thanks charl I hope you enjoyed that interview make sure you subscribe to the acquiring minds Channel below we are now publishing twice a week so tons of new interviews and stories to come stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business