Sales, sales, sales, sales, sales. No business has ever succeeded without sales. Period. End of story. >> The biggest problem with India is they look at sales people like leeches. to get a job. Yesterday when I was cold calling, third cold call he that guy offered me a job. >> Great. So I have an offer for you. Can you join us our company in the same position >> as a >> remember this cold calling will give you 30 seconds of grace. If you're unable to go in punch, get a yes within the first 30 seconds. You're lost. I >> absolutely hate cold calling. It's like bro where did you get my number? >> Perfect. And that's what they're doing wrong. The money is less valuable than the service I provide. That disparity in value is what you're trying to create. that delta. The larger the delta, the easier the sale. And when you do that, I don't have to ask. They'll be begging to take the service. >> What are the other most popular objections that you get in your sales calls? >> Can we have a discussion tomorrow? >> Actually, I am traveling tonight. >> You can drop us a email because I don't handle this part. >> Objection handling is very simple. I will give you the framework for objection handling. Ask questions to get to what is the core problem. Once you get to the core problem, >> walk me from step number one to step number five before somebody starts cold calling. >> So these four components basically make tonality. There are six core tonalities. Okay. Tonality one is f. Before we jump in, I want to thank ODU for supporting this podcast. Now, listen to this very carefully, especially if you're a business owner, founder, freelancer, or just someone with big dreams. Because what I'm about to tell you could be the difference between closing your next big deal or watching it slip through your fingers. Let's be real, guys. 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Your first ODO app is free for life along with hosting and support included. So, hit the link in the description, sign up for UDO, and take full control of your customer game starting from today. Hi Sad, welcome to the Indian Business Podcast. Today we're very excited. As you can see, we have a household because everybody wants to know how to sell and you're the perfect person to help us understand that. And this is perhaps your first appearance without a cigarette. >> Yeah, you're the only one who could get me to actually not smoke on camera. So, >> thank you so much. Sad. You speak a lot about cold calling. Can you help me understand the gravity of cold calling using a case? because I want the audience to understand that cold calling is not spam calling and it is a superpower that you can >> I'll give you an example there's a company that gave me a contract it's a company that does close to about 100 to $200 million one of the things that people love hiring me for is they have a proposition companies that are large enterprise have a proposition that they're like we want to introduce this as a service can you test whether this market would accept it so I will build a team of three to four people we will try to understand what their ICP is and basically do research come back and research is through what we call the actual people who want to buy it can be anything so one of the things that we were doing this for is a large B2B enterprise solution I can't really talk about what it is and the validation was I called them because my team has is one of the best teams right now they called it they spoke to the entire group of what they thought was their audience with what they were trying to sell and I got back and they were so happy when I told them the project failed. >> Do you know why? >> Because they didn't invest money. >> Yes. They saved close to about half a million dollars by paying me $20,000 to do this activity for a month. So that now they don't have to go back and invest. So we basically have the have recordings of actual ICPS telling them no this is this insight that you're telling is not really true. This is not really the problem. This is what's actually the thing that's happening. So this instead of them waste figuring it out over the next 2 years of what is possible. They did it with me in a month and now they don't have to go into an itch that actually would have made them lose money. Do you understand how powerful that can be for a business that this is just at a larger level? At a smaller level, it can be as simple as you are a nobody in this space and you're starting out in a business. How social media is saturated. I sell social media. Everybody's like social media is dead. Everybody with a 14year-old and a iPhone selling social media. I believe social media hasn't even touched. You know why? Because nobody's able to reach enterprise. Most agency owners, most small businesses, most people who are just starting out, they are talking to who? They're talking to restaurant owners, cafe owners. But you and I both know these are not the people who have the money. The people who have the money is enterprise. Now, how are you going to get in touch with enterprise? Are they going to fill out your form and an ad when you are a nobody? Absolutely not. The simplest way to enter to reach enterprise is actually calling the person you want to talk to in enterprise. So you can be a nobody in an agency and have a thought and you can call the CMO of one of the people I actually had a conversation with was the director CMO of Casio and Casio is a Japanese uh thing and she literally actually sat and told me all the problems they're having very happily cuz at that level at that scale they are always looking for a solution. Somebody had a conversation with me yesterday. We were talking to Gat. He's like AI is AI s AI is not saturated. Enterprise still has to play. How do you reach enterprise? They are not filling out forms on an ad or meeting you randomly in a cafe. Enterprise the only way to reach them is through cold outreach. Unless you yourself are enterprise. You get what I'm saying? So access to large business the easiest way to do it and the cheapest way is through cold calling. Otherwise, you have to try your luck in a conference where 500 people are trying to hound them. I can sit in my room with a phone and a phone number and I can talk to anyone in the world. What's more powerful than that? >> True. That's your blue ocean then. >> Yeah. >> S what exactly is the craziest thing you've sold? My first ever venture was something called Motabhai in Mangalore where I would sell biryani out of on a stall outside a mosque during Ramadan. So if there is something to be sold, I will probably sell it. Like I don't really care. Like I would stand and I would say biryani, biryani, biryani, biryani, biryani, biryani, biryani. And I would dance and I would have fun and I would attract people to come and I would feed them biryani and like I would do the whole show outside a stall. And that was the first time I ever made enough money to actually take that. And me and my friends went to Bangalore. Like that's the first time we left to left out of Bangalore to Bangalore. So that's that's pretty much just been my life. Just like what can I do to make that 20 30 40 60 70,000 that's this. But anything honestly it really doesn't matter. I've sold everything from now that you tell like I can tell you about real estate right like the first month in real estate we went in we sold 11 million dhams one of my brokers took home uh close to about a cr in uh commissions. >> Wow. >> But the main game was the biryani >> cuz that taught me more than this because that taught me what people are. >> Beautiful. So cold calling can help you do two things. A market research before you burn your money. B, it helps you reach large scale enterprises who are otherwise not accessible without competition. >> You know, one more thing that I completely forgot to tell you. Cold calling is the fastest way to get a job. >> Mhm. >> There is nothing faster. I'm going to I'm going to give you an example. If you had a kid who could speak well, cold call you and say, "I'm going to I would love an opportunity to sell for you." Would you not hire that person? >> 100%. Most people are sending CVs and stuff like that which gets lost. If you want to work in a company like if you want to work in sales in a company, call the sales manager with the best energy you can have. Yesterday when I was cold calling, I was cold calling for one of uh I just after a very long time I cold called. I'm not joking. Third cold call, he that guy offered me a job. He's like, I want you to come work. I mean, that guy didn't know who I was. That's a whole different conversation. But the third conversation, he's like, all this is great, but do you want to come work for us? And I'm like, "Yeah, I mean, we'll have a conversation." Like, "No, no, no. If you're very serious and we would love to meet you, come." Because people are so desperate for people who actually want and give a If you are right now thinking how do I get a job, go to something like an Apollo or a full enrich. Get your whoever your manager is, not the HR. If you want to work in marketing, talk, call marketing manager. If you want to talk to if you want to get a job in sales, call the sales guy. You will be surprised how many CEOs would just pick up the call and you actually have something researched and have a conversation with them and they will sit and talk to you. >> So market research, large scale enterprises and a job. >> Yeah. >> Okay. S you spoke about doing market research. I'll give you a case and you help me understand if cold calling can do market research for something like this. Let's say today I have 50 crores in the bank and I want to build a building and sell 2 crores per unit in the Mumbai real estate. Now let's say I put this building up in Andhiri. Before putting this building up, do you think I can do market research to understand whether people would buy a 2 crore flat with ABC offering? >> Yes. So first of all, it's not just that. The whole thing what you should probably do a little bit ahead of this is identify what is it that the buyers want. So there's a particular category of people who will buy this property. >> Okay. >> All of their data is available. Data is a myth there. Everybody's number is out there. You can get it two clicks away. >> So before we move ahead I just wanted to touch upon the data part. Where do you get all this data without being too intrusive? >> Full enrich is amazing. So it really there's a scale of stuff. Okay. There's a scale of stuff when it comes to data. There's a couple of couple of people. One is you have full enrich. Full enrich is more of a European if you're going to UK, US. Brilliant for UK and US. The thing with full enrich is it's expensive. >> This is for enterprise clients. >> This is for enter everyone. Okay. So it's a little expensive. I'll tell you why. So they use something called as a waterfall method. So basically data there are levels of data. You'll have a random kid call you and tell you here is data and that data might be outdated because people change their numbers. Okay, for example, the lowest level is your Lucia, Apollo, stuff like that. These are great companies by the way. I started with Apollo, great company, but the data might sometimes be outdated. Okay. Now, if you switch to the expensive version of Apollo, you'll get something called waterfall just like you'll get for full and rich. >> Got it? >> Got it. So it's about how much time do you want to waste Apollo like if you're just starting out you don't know where to begin you have very little money to do this Apollo is great for that. >> Got it. >> So the first thing you do is you get the data of your ICP. ICP is your customer persona. First you have to step one is you have to identify who your customer is. This is everything from gender, um position, um title, job title, location, um salary range, where does he like to hang out? You have to create what we call as a SAM model. The SAM model is basically you have to create an individual that is all things that individual. So then once you have this data you can pretty much there are data centers where you can buy purchase like hey this is my SAM model this is my ICP can you give me data for this particular and it'll give you 3,000 4,000 10,000 20,000 numbers now before you start doing research what I would do is I wouldn't just talk about would you buy this thing the question is what would you buy >> because the research cannot come with a premise of this is it the research is also to possible to find out the possibilities of what it can be because whenever we think we have a very limited vision of thought because it's based on the influence of information we have right so in sales we have I I have this thing what we call as curiosity that's the basis of all things sales curiosity means you keep asking questions till you get to the actual specific answer most people will give you surface answers you can ask them questions and then you ask them three times why they won't have an actual substance to whatever the whatever the question is. So you need most people are not actually curious surface they're going to say yes if you ask them would you like to buy this property like yeah and then you move on that is not research research is why would you like to buy this property what would this property need to have for you to get excited for you to tell me no I want you to call me back the moment it's launched what is this property missing in the most ideal situation for this price range for this location that you're showing interest on. What is that image that's going on in your head that you think is going to happen in this? Because a lot of times what ends up happening is we say property, property for you, property for me and property for the kid there is very different things. The job of sales is clarity. If you're unable to get clarity, what ends up happening is even if you do end up doing research, huh sir I for example I went I'm like would you like to buy a property that's 2 crores and Andhiri and that guy said yes I your caller spoke to 100 people 50 of them said yes he'll come and like 50% people said they'll buy and then you launch it and nobody's bought it. Yeah, >> that is not research. Research is going to the depth, going to the three W's. Why would you buy it? What about it? On a scale of 1 to 10, one being, give me right now. 10 being I absolutely hate it. It's disgusting. Don't call me back. Where are you? You're at six. Amazing. Why aren't you at 10? And they'll tell you exactly what they like about it. Oh, what would it what would it need to be for it to be a one? And they'll tell you all the things that you haven't told them that's missing. >> This is research. Can I be honest with you? >> Yeah. >> I'll tell you how I look at sales. Biggest problem with the with India is they look at sales people like leeches, you know, like ah gi. And most sales people like if you have sales people here, I can tell 90% of them have one problem and most of it can be solved within 2 seconds. And anyone who's not getting into sales is also the same problem. You know what it is? >> Shamelessness. >> No, it is they believe sales is taking money. It's I'm taking from someone. That taking something from somebody is a very uncomfortable feeling. Cuz most people are innately very nice. Most people have a lot of love. They don't like taking from people, right? We want to give to people. The problem with sales is not about taking at all. Sales has nothing to do with taking. Sales done well is the most incredible thing on earth because you anytime a sale actually a good sale happens the prospect leaves with a smile. >> So sales is not taking sales is helping. >> Can I show you an example live example? >> Yeah. >> So now this is one of the easiest ways who has like a 100 rupees cash >> utkar >> cash I want hard cash. Okay. Okay. Listen, wait, wait, wait, wait. Sit down. Don't get excited. Now, for that 100 rupees, I want to buy I want you to buy my service. Okay? And my service is 500 rupees. So, if you pay me that 100 rupees, I will give you 500 rupees. Are you okay to do this transaction with me? >> Yeah. >> This is the 500 rupees. It's real. Can I can do you want to buy this 500 from me? Absolutely. This is yours. >> Thank you. >> Crazy. >> Okay. Do you see the look on his face? Do you see? Look at the smile on his face. Right. He's He's so like really is this actually happening? That is salesome. Okay. See, he's like, "No, it's not possible. It's not real. Look at how I just made 400 bucks." The thing with sales is when you truly understand what sales is is this this moment. It is the money that you have the value you give it which is X and the service that I have and the value that is given Y. The money is less valuable than the service I provide. So when you give me that money and you take my service you get so excited. you get excited to buy that. That disparity in value is what you're trying to create. That delta, the larger the delta, the easier the sale, >> the value that the product gives to the client minus the amount of money that the client pays for that product or service. >> That's the delta. >> The higher this number, the better it is, >> the easier it is to sell. And the job of a salesperson is to be able to distinguishly create that space. And when you do that, I don't have to ask. They'll be begging to take the service because what they have in their pocket right now is far lesser in value than what they can receive the moment they give me that money. This is the thesis of sales. This is what a salesperson does in a call is help the prospect understand that that money, that 15,000 in your in your wallet is less valuable than this. product that is mine and the moment that is understood they will steal borrow break do anything >> let's go deeper into this you spoke a lot about preparation before calling and that I think is something that most people miss they simply pick up the phone and they start calling let's go deeper into this research and walk me through all those tools that you mentioned in between from step number one to step number five before somebody starts That's cold calling. What does the homework look like? >> Step one is we need to identify what our service is. Okay. So the first thing you need to go into is this singular statement drives your business. We call it value proposition. Okay. And every business should have it. Most people don't actually have a statement that can tell you what their business does. Value proposition is I do X through Y. that is to get zed. So I do X is the for example I do social media okay through video production to make you viral. So it is what then outcome and then process. Remember this cold calling will give you 30 seconds of grace. If you're unable to go in, punch, get a yes within the f and like create intrigue within the 30 first 30 seconds, you're lost. So the first thing you need to be able to do is create a definition for what you guys are doing, which should include mainly what is it that you do, what's the outcome, and what's the process you do it with. So there's five parts to a call. Okay? Part one is open. This is the most critical part. This is where most people are up. Okay. So, the problem is it's extremely judgmental. Okay. If you open right, the game is in. The only thing you need to make sure that you do when you open is you don't pitch and you don't sound like a salesperson. This is the only two things and this is only specific to cold calling. The rules of inbound sales is different. The rules of everything else is different. Cold calling. For example, I would say ting. >> Hi. Who's this? >> Ganesh. How are you doing? >> I'm doing well. But who's this? So now when I said Ganesh how are you doing? This is my first open. What I'm doing is what we call as a old friend open. The idea with the old friend open is we only use first name. We never use last name. Never sir. >> Never. May I have your permission sir? How? No. lost old friend open is think about it this way when you've you've gone to school with somebody you haven't spoken to him in 7 years and when he calls you Ganesh how are you he's not he's going to try to with you a little bit >> right now the idea is you won't cut the call cuz you're like this might be somebody who I know right so you're going to be like uh who is this part is what we want because now he's asking who you are. You're not pitching. He's asking you to pitch. So we were trying. So every open has a psychology behind how you can get people to actually move up the ladder. So it's a game. Sales is a game, cold calling is a game. And every part basically you have to get them to move up the ladder. >> Okay? Move up the ladder. >> Move up the ladder. Right? So every time you move up the ladder, you unlock 10 more seconds. >> Okay? Okay. So when you do an open properly, you unlock 10 more seconds of saying something. Now most people fail. 90% of the people that like cold calling doesn't work. This part is where they are wrong. Okay. What did you say right after I said Ganesh who's this? >> Correct. Sales is a game of questions. The one asking questions isn't power. So when for example I said if I say oh this is sad from hos you can go do multiple variations of whatever you can say but if I say this is sad from hos how are you doing you have to respond to the final questions is a way of directing conversations so most of what we do is basically place questions so that I can get you to say one of four variables By the way, when you do this enough times, you know exactly what the four five things they can say because there's only so much anyone can say. Okay. So, I did two things here. I said this is sad from HOS. I've not said what is hos. I've not said who is sad. I've just said sad and hos. Now there are three possibilities of a answer I will get. What is hos? Which is amazing cuz then I can explain now what ho does. I can go into my pitch. See, we have not gone into the pitch early. We're get we're getting them to ask us to pitch to them. So, we say, is this a good time here? Is this is called as a pre-objection handle. So, what is a pre-objection handle? When you do calling a certain amount of times, no, you'll start getting similar objections over a period of time. So, we want to handle those objections before they can ever happen. So one of the most common things that happens is you tell them what it is about and they'll tell you doesn't have they don't have time. >> But if I tell them is this a good time and then they answer whatever they answer next next they can't tell me this is not a good time >> because they've already moved past that objection. So this is how you address objections before. So when you have so what we do in sales is if we are seeing too many objections that come in later in the game we try to bring them into the front where we can remove them without any problems. So one of the most common things is no this is not the right time to talk to me correct that generally happens after you tell them what it's about but >> for example >> so for example till now the only information they have is I am sat from hos they don't know what it is so they have no reason to tell then they don't have time >> but if I tell them I'm calling from a real estate office of course they don't have time for that conversation >> but the main thing that most people miss out if he did not have time why did he pick up his on. >> Do you understand what I mean? >> I actually have a reason for that, sir. >> Tell me. >> I often end up picking up the phone because I don't have a lot of numbers saved. Um, new pe new people keep on joining the company. So, it could be a new joiny calling me for something very important or I could be receiving an emergency call. >> So, I happen to pick up and here's one reason why I absolutely hate cold calling, especially when somebody cold calls me, >> is because I'm driving, there's something very important going on in my life. I'm at peak stress moment and somebody gives me a call says hi my name is sad I'm from hos I like bro where did you get my number that's my first question and the answer usually is you know I got it from LinkedIn my first reaction is cut the call go to LinkedIn delete the number >> perfect and that's what they're doing wrong so for example if you were to tell me uh give me a call and say why the did you call me like just ram that Whether this happened yesterday also just like >> sad why the hell did you call me? How did you get my number? >> Ganesh I I'm so sorry. Is it I mean I want to make sure that you know what I'm going to do. I got your number from LinkedIn. I'm going to make sure that it's taken off. Is it okay if I send them an email and make sure that nobody else can call you and I want to make sure nobody from my team calls you. Is that okay? >> Sure. >> Okay. Awesome. By the way, the main reason I kind of reached out was because I was on Google and I was like, who is going to be in the top 100 companies? And you were the name that popped up cuz you are incredible. I just wanted to let you know I run a social media company and I wanted to see if you have a minute. I know it might not seem like the right time. Do you want to have a conversation now or can I call you back? >> But by this time I'm already zoomed out. >> You're not >> because I'm in stress. >> So if you are in stress, see again it is a number. This doesn't see the idea of converting everybody is not a possibility. But nine times out of 10, no it's not true. >> Like for example right now if a call comes there's no scenario you're picking up. So, you're not truly picking up every call that's going to come. You can get angry with me. You can start losing your with me. And this is the core to cold calling, right? Which is composure. You need to be able to no matter what they say. When I believe I'm sitting with gold and you just don't know that and you're not understanding it's cold and you're angry and I know you're upset right now. I will still figure out a way to deal with you. And this is the reason why it's the I'm going into the non-technical part of it is it's impossible to execute the technical part of it unless you understand this >> because the technical part for it to work it needs tonality. Like if I were to teach tonality it's a it's a decade of learning and most people can't do it. So instead of faking tonality what you need to do is you need to have the tones that actually work which means you need to actually have that mindset. So first before we go into tonality you need to understand tonality has four pillars. Okay. So the four pillars basically of tonality is rhythm, pitch, volume and pause. So pitch is the shriekiness or the depth of the voice. It's generally confused with volume. Volume and pitch are completely different. It is how deep can you speak versus how shrill can you go. So the manipulation of how we are speaking and how we want to make the other person feel and the way you want to move them because with different rhythms you can create different feelings in people that's rhythm. No, I can explain. For example, let's say if somebody's handling objection by saying, "Sad, I completely understand what you mean. Here's another perspective." The other way to go about it would be, "Sad, you know what? I really understand what you're saying." It just gets annoying. >> Yeah. So, that's the rhythm. So, it's it's the tonality, the the way the words are flowing. Yes. >> So, just think about the most pleasant, charming person you've met. The way they speak is rhythm. >> Is that correct? >> Yeah. Then comes volume. Volume is high or low. How softly can you speak or how loudly can you speak? That's volume. And then pause which is the most important thing is to be able to take. So intensity is created in actually spaces not in conversation. Okay. So these four components basically make tonality. >> Okay. >> There are six core tonalities. Okay. Tonality one is friendly and inviting. The pitch is medium, not too high, not too low. Volume is steady and moderate. Facial expression is smile genuinely. >> This is what you use in your videos. >> Yes. >> This is the best. >> So, here's the thing. I I don't want to do a blanket statements because the goal with the goal with tone is not this is the best or that is the best. It is what's the best to you innately for me friendly and inviting is the most authentic tone to me. The goal is to be authentic. So there are people who if they try friendly and inviting will be inauthentic. So they should never go towards that. They're like for example they're authority they're authoritative to one those are people who speak with clear authority if they try to do this they will sound so inauthentic that it'll look bad it'll hear bad it'll sound off so the goal is not this is the best this is what you do the goal is what is your au authentic tonality recognize it and generally most people have one or two at their core levels that they are basically operating with throughout their lives uh what comes supernaturally to them then recognize the rest of the tonalities so that you can eventually kind of get to learn them. >> Okay. My core one, you're absolutely right, is friendly and uh inviting. That's my core core tonality when when I'm doing sales. >> Second one is calm and reassuring. The pitch is lower than normal. The volume is soft and gentle. Okay. Pace is slow. Okay. Facial expression is relaxed with a slight nod. So, you're not speaking in a normal tone. You're kind of slowing down. Like, is everything okay? Like, I want to make sure that like I'm not stepping boundaries. See, the reason why I'm kind of asking these questions is to in order for me to actually help you, I need to understand a lot more context about who you are. Cuz if I don't understand that, I won't be actually I won't actually be able to give you a solution that might work for you. Does this make sense? >> So that's common reassurance, right? So it's not hey everything is sunshine and rainbows because with calm and reassuring the goal is to bring you in. So when you want to actually go deep discovery in a sales call or in a cold call or when you're doing qualification we're getting to qualification on a cold call in a bed. You can't have a friendly tone because to a friendly tone I'm not going to open up what's actually my pain because in sales the main objective is to extract pain. The person who can extract pain is somebody who can be calm and reassuring. >> So this is where so the ideal situation is you have to master all six. >> So just like a therapist extracts all your pain points. >> Yes. >> You got to act like a therapist. >> Yes. So that the tonality the pitch is lower than normal. You're kind of settling in. The conversation is settling in. Okay. Third one is confident and assertive. pitch slightly higher on emphasis of words like exactly like you want to like there are certain words that you like for example exactly you want to emphasize on that volume is steady and strong not loud body language this is where body language kind of plays a massive role is stand or sit upright and straight now for example So when you're doing price, you can't be friendly, you can't be calm, you can't be like, "Oh, so you know, Ganesh, the price is like 15,000 dhams. Is is that okay? >> It's too submissive." >> So yeah, it's too submissive. So when it comes to the price, you want to be confident, assertive. All right. So we've gone through everything. Does this make sense? Would you like to move forward? >> Yes. Okay. So the prices are 15,000 dhams for like 2 months. If you want to break it down, we can figure it out. But um this covers ABC service. Would you like to move forward? >> No. >> No. Cool. But the idea is it's a lot more u settled in. It's very monotonous. It's it's less friendly. It's less therapeutic. It's very straight. I know exactly what I'm talking about. You don't have to question it because the moment somebody has to pay the price, they're looking for confidence. >> Yeah. >> That what is the confidence that this guy can deliver. You know, there was a offer that I was working on. That's the easiest thing to sell in the world because uh the brand value by the I don't want to deviate. There's so much information. Uh sales is the last part of a very large thing. One of the most important things that sales people constantly look for is what we call as a veil offer. A veil offer is something that has extremely high demand and extremely low supply. So you're pretty much a talking razor pay page. >> So your only job is to get on a call and say the price confidently and leave. >> Which means if there is a company that's hiring for a salesman, they have to understand the kind of offering they have. For example, if I'm hiring somebody to sell a car, I need somebody friendly and inviting. If I'm hiring somebody for customer support, that person has to be calm and reassuring. If I'm hiring somebody for let's say things school, that person has to be confident and assertive. >> Yes. >> Got it. So each business owner has to evaluate their business and then look for sales people accordingly >> and understand if that is their true authentic self without actually trying to fabricate a person into becoming confident and assertive. So um empathetic >> enthusiastic. The fourth one. >> Fourth one is enthusiastic. >> Yes. Okay. The pitch is slightly higher than normal speaking voice. Volume is a bit loud to convey excitement. Pace is faster than usual. So you're kind of like up and ready. Let's go. Right. And then the emphasis of words are like, "Hey, I like dude, I'm seriously looking for this." like we really need to do this. So you emphasize certain really looking for this. It's like you're getting moving fast pace, right? >> Can you give an example of a industry or company that does this? >> Enthusiastic. So they do this in credit card sales. Uh so anything that is like no you know who you who does this really well you know um telemarketing >> when there's a timer on the clock and uh it's like 30 seconds left come on let's do this this is all there's left or 5 minutes left 4 3 2 that is enthusiastic >> and when do you use this >> you use enthusiastic it it's not as in sales calls it's not as used but you can show enthusiasm to get connected by showing enthusiasm of what other person is doing. So when you want to connect to it like you can get enthusiastic about what they're doing. It's like hey by the way what's your brand about things? No you actually run think school that's like >> you can get excited you can show enthusiasm on the prospect. So this way you can get a little bit more closer. So enthusiasm is more there but >> for building >> for building you can use enthusiasm but moreover enthusiasm is so used for something that you want to create urgency. So if if there's a point where you want to create urgency you want to use enthusiasm >> for example >> this this online shopping uh real estate does this super well. So in real estate there's something called EOI. Do you know what EOI is? So it's called expression of interest. So before a product is launched before a um so you know how you all are like oh this in Dubai this one launch sold out in one day. No it's been selling from 6 months. Okay so in 6 months they before the launch they collect something called EOIs expression of interest. So this is a very small token to take the uh be first in line when the launch happens you get the allocation. Okay. So when you are selling something like an EOI without giving a lot of information, you want to get them excited about the project itself. >> Oh, is that how you sell the 2 cr flat in before it gets built? >> Yes. So like sir, I'm listen I can't tell you all of the information, but the thing is this project is like the most amazing thing I've ever seen. You don't have to buy it right now. I want you to put in a UI. I don't have a lot of time because I have to talk to a few more people and I can only allocate 10 UIs. Do you want to be one of them? You get excited. You're running. You're like, "Listen, this is this is happening. This crazy new launch is happening. It's it's it's by Shoa and you know there's only 150 inventory left and I I this there's just like you're creating urgency. So enthusiasm like enthusiasm is great for creating urgency in an authentic. So EUIS collection is mostly like you will get a random call from your friend who is a real estate agent. If you ever come in Dubai, he's like, "Bro, launch is going to happen. These UIs are open bro you have to put it right now they use enthusiasm very well fifth one now we finished fourth now we're going to fifth that is empathetic empathetic is pitch is low pace is slow like you're slowing down uh facial expressions is gentle gentle eyes and words basically you're using like I believe you I trust you so empathetic is you know when you're doing deep discovery on a sales call. There's a lot going on and in order for your your prospect is opening about how his business is >> No, you can't be friendly when he's like, "Oh, >> you have to show you have to be you have to have an empathetic tone. I completely understand, man. I'm so sorry." Like, "No, I really want to buy this product, but like, you know, my situation is this. I completely understand." No, I I you know, it's tough. I get it. like we've all been there and that's why we are having this conversation because we don't want to be there anymore. So that's fine. What about this? Is this something that So it's a little bit shared with the territory of calm and reassuring. So you have when you are calm and reassuring to ask questions to get pain, you have to be empathetic with the answers that you get >> because that's how you get deeper trust, >> right? So you have empathetic. Okay. Last one is sixth is persuasive and compelling. This is the for objection handling. Pitch is begin low and gradually increase. Then comes the pace. It comes from slowly to speed. Okay. Pause. This is very important. Okay. Is pause after I believe. So whenever you do a confirming statement, you have to give a pause so that it sinks in. You have to let it sink in because in order for you to objection handle, you need to be assertive. >> Yeah. You can't submit. >> But you can't start with assertive because if you start with assertive, you're going to war. >> They need to know you have listened. They need to know you're not battling. It is not one-on-one. It is you both against the problem. >> I was watching this episode at Joe Rogan and there there were two officials from Twitter. If I'm not wrong, it it was Jack Dorsey along with somebody. Bro, there Joe Rugan was just throwing objections after objections and the other guest was also throwing objections. And that executive always started with I can understand what you're saying. I get where you're coming from. That's completely fair. >> Yeah. >> So, you know, um I would like to call them as cushion phrases. So there's a objection >> and then instead of just beating back you say you know what I can understand. >> Yeah. So you never reject the premise. >> So in sales in objection handling one of the first things you're taught is you never say no. >> Like if you come and tell me s this is extremely expensive. Say >> s this is extremely expensive. >> I completely agree. The thing is the moment I say no it's one against one. The moment I say I completely understand, I agree. Now it's we both against the problem that is the price is expensive. >> So you can then add more value. >> Yeah. >> And then show that the value of a product. >> The main thing is the moment I reject your premise, I have a wall. So anything I come beyond that, I'm not listening. They stop listening. So the main thing we need to do is we need them to be open to listening. Will you listen to me more when I say I agree with you or will you listen to me more when I say no I completely disagree with you? >> When you say I agree with you. >> Huh? >> The goal with agreeing with them is to get them to a state of listening so that that they don't pull up another wall. >> Not to submit >> not to submit the goal with I agree is yeah dude you're absolutely right. So now he's not what happens with most objection handling is it's very expensive. No it's not expensive. What are you saying >> now? It is a battle. >> That means there's a wall. Now everything I say, you will not hear cuz I'm rejecting whatever you're saying. I'm not accepting it. We are now in a battlefield. When I say I agree, >> you lower your guard. The state of lower because once you lower the guard, then we can find a solution together. But if I reject it, your guard has gone from here to here. All the best. We've lost. Mhm. >> So it's not you versus the client, it is you and client versus the problem. >> Yes. >> And that's again a mindset thing. >> That's again a mindset thing. >> Got it. >> So because we starting with reflective state, our tone starts low. I completely understand. I agree. Because you want to be in a reflective state. Then when you're going into assertive state, when you're actually giving an answer, because now they have lowered their guard. Now when you give an answer, you have to be assertive. >> Okay. Got it? >> You have to let that pause sink in. This is where the pause comes into play. You have to let whatever the gravity of Yes, now we are on the same state sink in. These are your six tonalities. So mastery of tonality is everything from body language, facial expressions, tonality, u volume, every tone. So every tone can evoke a different emotion. People who have mastery on tonality can make anyone feel whatever they want because most times what ends up happening is in a conversation you might not remember the exact word to word of what somebody's saying but you'll remember the feeling that feeling comes from tonality what I don't know why but I'm feeling relaxed when I'm speaking so tonality is 90% of I can tell you exactly what to say you don't you up the tonality. All of it is wasted. >> Guys, before we move on with the podcast, I have something very special to share with you. If you're among the top 1% sales who are looking out for a job that pays more than 12 lakh rupees a year, please fill the form in the description because we might get back to you with something very very special. At the same time, if you're an enterprise looking out for the top 1% sales in the country, please fill the form in the description and we'll get back to you very very soon. Beautiful. Now, let's come back to the structure of cold calling. figure out the ICP, figure out your proposition, get the data, call them as a old friend, do the pre-objection handling within another 10 seconds. >> Yeah. With win another sentence. So now they're going to answer sad ho. Right now the only question they're going to ask you is either what is ho or they're going to give you a new objection which is this is not a good time. Both irrelevant cuz the answer to the both of them is the same. So for example, say what is hos? What is HOS? >> Oh, we are a social media. So, we are an organic social media company. We make viral content through video production. Is this something you're looking for? >> Not at the moment. >> Okay, we now that is step now we have gone into next battle. Let's not go in there. We're still now this is one premise. Now say what's the second thing you can probably say? No, this is not a good time. Say this is not a good time. >> No, this is not a good time. >> I completely understand. Before I let you go, I just wanted to make sure we're a company that does organic social media and we do this to make you go viral. Is this something you'd be looking for or you I you don't want anyone from my team to ever call you back again? We're still doing the pitch. We have to do the pitch. >> You get what I'm saying? >> Yeah. >> So the stages of how it is is >> at all points the answers are the same. The framing changes based on where they place it. So if they say no, you say I can understand. >> Yeah. And before I let you go, because I'm letting you go right now. I'm going. I'm leaving. This is the last opportunity you have with me. >> Are you sure? Cuz this is what we do through this. Is this something you're looking for? Now we've talked about value. This can say one of Now you have one of two answers. What is it? Yes, I'm interested or >> no, I'm not interested. >> No, I'm not interested. Both of it is the same answer. >> Let's uh build an algorithm for this. Okay. First is you call as an old friend and >> so first I ask them how is your day going. So this is called uh old friend open which is a greeting statement which is an open. Okay. After that there is one of two questions. Who is this? What is this about? These are actually the only two questions they can actually ask. Or oh yeah this is I'm good. Who is this? Like it's a variation of who is this? >> Who's this? Okay, that's all. There's a v everything is a variation of who is this if you say because they they have no reason to cut the call yet because it can be somebody they know, >> right? So they going to push you push past this unless you sound like a >> which is why old friend approach is important so that they ask who's this >> there are multiple approaches is one of the approaches there's like a hundreds of them old friend open one of theund opens. So you can have like opens as simple as by the way this is a cold call do I get 30 seconds we do social med that's a hard cold open >> so these are all called opening statements so there's multiple opening statements you need to experiment find out which opening statement works for you for example I have a friend he's an Italian he's very famous he's called like he's called Julio underdog sales he's a cold caller very famous guy he's like uh if I sing you jingle bells will you let me uh speak for another 30 seconds and then he starts singing jingle bells jing single everything works as long as it's a pattern interrupt all of it works. So that's an open. So all opens can only lead to two or three things. Yes. Who is this or don't call me again? >> Yes. Now it goes into the line of yeses, right? >> Yes. Okay. Who is this? Oh, this is sad. I'm calling from Hos. Now depending on my open, I'm either being enthusiastic or I'm being assertive. So now the tone the open can follow with its own tone. Okay, this starts from HOS. Is this a good time? This is the question. Next is if they say yes. Now I'm still going with yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Then I'll go to no. No, no, no. Is this a good time? Amazing. So what do you guys do? Or what is hos? Yes, this is a good time. What's this about? Then I get to pitch my value proposition. Do you remember the value proposition we wrote in the first? This is the most important part. That value proposition is where we place it >> here. This is where the value prop comes. Then I'm going to lead to one of two parts. Either I'm going to go to now this is where it becomes how good are you at a skill level. >> So once they have given a confirmation of okay this might be something they're interested in. You can either directly go for booking a meeting. The objective with a sales call sorry cold call is four. First one is book a meeting. If you can't get a booked meeting, get permission to call back. If you can't get permission to call back, ask for a reference. >> Can you say that again? >> Book a meeting. If they say, "No, I'm not interested right now," ask to stay in touch, saying, "Okay, this might not be relevant to you right now, but is it okay if I call you back in a few months to just check in?" So, they building a roster of people who might be interested because these are still your ICP no matter what. They might not need it now. They might need it 3 months, 4 months from now, right? So that right after that will be and then so in that I'm like they say yes like awesome can I keep sending you some materials every once in a while just so that so you're taking permission to keep sending the material keep them in the loop and call them in 6 months. Third thing is reference. Hey, who do you think this would have been relevant to if not for you? Cuz they've said they like the service. They had a conversation with you. Who do you think it might be relevant to? But if you get a reference, the best thing in the world cuz now when I call, what's your name? >> Utkash. Like Uttkash Ganesh told me you should be the person I should be speaking to. How much more valuable is what I'm saying? >> It's very valuable. >> Yes. So I went from a cold to warm all of a sudden. >> Understood. >> Okay. So this is the uh these are the three core requirements of your cold calling. Like >> meeting, stay in touch, reference. >> Reference. Okay. >> Perfect. >> Anything other than you get bunch of other things, but these are the main three things you're trying to get out of. So if somebody says no to a meeting, you're immediately going to can I stay in touch with you? If they say no to staying in touch with you, can I get a reference? >> Unless you get all three nos, you don't leave. Okay, before this is what we call so you can either go from they have confirmed that they need your service and then you can book a meeting. In booking a meeting there is one of two ways. One is permission based one is assumption based. >> Okay, what is the difference? >> So permission based is would you like to get so okay it seems like this is something that you're looking for. Would you like to get on a 15-minute call with me? So that's a you're taking permission to get on a call. Second is assuming that because they have said they have intention that they want to get on a call now you're trying to fix the time like oh amazing you're looking for the service amazing so I have two time blocks available Thursday or Friday which one are you available to get on a 15-minute call so these are two different formats of ways of you can ask because the question is not whether you want to hop on a call the question is when do you want >> h got it >> so it's assumptions you're making an assumption So assumption now so don't take permission go with the assumption >> you can do either it works so it really depends on which flow you are in right and you always give so at the end of everything so there's a thing called statement versus I again deviating statement versus questions okay statement versus questions is the sin of sales so for example never end anything with a statement >> hi Ganesh this is sad what can you say to I don't know you can say what the do I do with this information right there's a pause so that's a statement but if I say hi Ganesh this is sad how's your day going you know what to answer how's your day going >> so all things is basically questions so when you've been asking questions and getting yes no yes no yes no it's a dance you're directing so by the time you come to when do you want to get on a call Thursday and Friday or Thursday or Friday it's not whether they want to get on a call it's whether it is the Thursday or a Friday >> you get it so you're priming them to the end of the entire conversation. >> And also if you are more decisive and bring more clarity, >> it helps the other person make a decision easily. Otherwise, if you first ask, can you get on a call? The answer is yes. When do you want to get on a call? That's an open canvas. >> Yeah. But you never say when do you want to get on a call? You always say when do you want to get on a call? Thursday, Friday. You have to give them time blocks so that they can say no. Wednesday. Wednesday, what time? 1:00 p.m. or 4 p.m. Like, oh no, 3 p.m. Great. Is this your email ID? Yes, awesome. I'm sending you an invite. Did you get an invite? By the way, one of the cardinal sills of cold calling is letting the person go without confirming that on their calendar that the meeting is visible and then telling them you're going to call them on the morning of the meeting just to remind them. >> Perfect. >> So, the second level of cold calling is somebody said yes, >> they're interested. You don't stop at that. You do something called bant. B A N T B is budget, authority, need, timeline. So this is qualification metrics. We are not trying to sell to everybody. Our objective of a objective of cold calling is not to just get onto meetings. It's to get into meetings that actually want people to buy, right? Like simply getting on meetings is useless. So once you get intent, so we call it intent check. The value proposition that you said is this something you're looking for? They say yes. Now they have checked for intent. Now after they have checked for intent that intent when I say social media when they say social media might be two different things right you want to check for specific intent that means you want to qualify them so you want to qualify them on four metrics so generally what ends up happening is if you have the rule is if you don't have sales calls don't qualify get them good practice but if you already have a lot of sales calls you don't want to simply add people you don't want to waste time so on a cold call you want to disqualify people so you there are four places you want to disqualify them on budget it. Hey, by the way, if you were to do this, what would be the investment you would be open to investing if it makes sense? >> Otherwise, you get on a call and the budget doesn't align. that. No. So, you align on budget because if it really doesn't make sense, don't get them on a call. Don't waste their time. Don't waste your time. Authority. Is this something that you can actually make a decision on? What's the decision-m process for this? >> Oh, wow. >> So, you want to get their authority. You want to make sure the people you're speaking to have the authority to make a decision. Right? Need. When you see social media, what do you mean specifically? What have you tried? What have you not tried? Generally, when people have already given intent, by the way, they are more than happy to do the qualification. You start the qualification by saying, "Hey, listen. I don't want to waste your time by taking you on a sales call. I can I ask you a few questions so that I'm able to help understand if it even makes sense for us to hop on that another call. If not, I don't want to bother you." This way they will say it's fine let's just do this for the next 3 minutes and if it makes sense I will hop on a sales call >> right so need what do you specifically need in terms of social media was because what they need and what we do is something different then comes timeline assume everything aligns budget you're the decision maker you have the specific need what's the timeline you're looking for in order to make this decision this is very critical because this will be able to help you decide whether this prospect is a warm lead, a hot lead or something that's a nurture lead. A nurture lead is somebody you have to nurture over a period of time. >> So if somebody's timeline is not now and it's later and you try to put pressure on them, it'll irk them and they leave. >> In our case, usually we check which quarter are they interested in. >> Yeah. So that's timeline check, right? So that's the band. So the first one is you want to make sure that you are aligned with making so but somebody who has a urgent timeline. If the salesperson is not putting pressure that is also a problem. So this is your band qualification. This in band qualification you have two objectives. Either you qualify, disqualify, educate or realign. >> Qualify disqualify. This is the main. Educate and realign. >> So are they four categories? >> Yes. So either um because educating them is also as important because even sometimes what happens is they fit into the thing but what they need is more information versus disqualification because I if I disqualify them they're off my list. I'm not never calling them again. >> Yeah. >> They haven't qualified to get on a sales call. They haven't gotten disqualified but there's a middle where they can be educated and kept in a roster cuz I can sell to them 3 months later. >> Wow. >> Then it's realigning. That means what their specific need, timeline, budget is. It's probably not realistic because they don't know what it actually takes. So you have to realign them and keep them there. So these are the four spectrums of what you want to do in budget band. >> Okay. After after you >> after bank you have either they have an objection, you have to handle the objection. Objection handling is very simple. Okay. I will give you the framework for objection handling. Whatever they say you do, you agree with them. So you say I completely agree. Okay. And then you ask them why do you believe it? >> Let me just throw a case at you. This service is too expensive. Sad. I >> I completely understand. But can I ask you why do you believe it's expensive? >> Because there are other agencies that are willing to do it at 50% of the cost. >> Oh, okay. That's that's amazing. By the way, I I know that. When you say 50% of the cost, what are you getting out of that 50% of the cost? the exact same thing that you're offering, which is organic reach up to 10 million people at 50% the budget. >> Okay. Why did you not go with them? >> That is because I didn't have time. Maybe I'll go back to them. >> Okay. So, I mean, listen, if that's something that you're looking for, I think that's something you should absolutely do because can I can I show you something if you're okay with it? >> Yeah. >> In order for me to actually be able to help you get to this, this is what I need to do. A B C D E F G. Now, by the way, on a sales call, I would have probably shown proof already. Now, in order for me to do this at this quality and this is my cost. Do you think it's possible for me to deliver at this price? This the reason why I'm doing this is to get to the core of what your belief system is. Now, my job is to educate you on there's a difference between the talent you can hire here and the talent we are operating with. Not all editors are the same. And why this not all those editors are the same today? If without you being you, without you being Ganesh and not knowing and you're just a random business owner, if I give you a videographer and an editor, would you be able to make content that works? >> No, I would need a content strategist. >> I would sell it to an enterprise guy who has millions if not billions and who has no context about sir but my editor hire and then I can help him understand. Sir, can I ask you something? Is an editor who has never successfully built content at millions and an editor who has given consistent millions of views on the same level? >> No, >> now that makes sense. >> Huh? So, it's who I'm talking to and it's it's extremely you need to understand. So, the main idea with objection handling is agree, ask questions to get to what is the core problem. Once you get to the core problem, then you need to either realign. So, now I'm trying to realign and educate here. Got it. What are the other most popular objections that you get in your sales calls? >> My most popular objection is uh price. >> Price. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like the like can we do something about the price? Say can we do something about the price? >> Can we do something about the price? >> 100%. I can make it more expensive. >> Okay. >> So price objections are what we call buying objections. So buying objections is their intent of buying is already been made. Now they're just trying to get that little bit of support to themselves. as long as you can be calm and you can break the ice, you can pretty much go to the other side. >> So there's a difference between objections and buying objections. Buying objections is intent of buying. So for example, it's like when you and your wife are finding a new house, >> you have found the house. You're like, "Fucking, I love it." Now she's like, "I want this house only." Now just because she wants this house, a decision's been made. >> But you're still going to try to squeeze that last >> what can you do? Yeah. >> for a little here. If you can be a little funny, you know, you can get away. >> Let's say they say we don't have the budget. >> Now, that's an objection. So, when you say you don't have the budget, can I ask you is it do you not have access to the budget or you don't have the money at all? So our company actually allocates a budget for marketing every quarter. For the next two quarters, we're completely locked out and we've already allocated the budget to some other agency. >> Amazing. So can I just give a little context? So the reason we ask to capital, which is I'm broke versus no, there is capital. It's just it's not going to be available to you because I'm not going to make it. So access is do I have money? Another one is I have money but I don't want to allocate it for this. These are two things what you spoke about is I have money but I don't want to allocate it this way. This person you disqualify >> correct >> don't try to sell it to him. This person is now you have to realign and educate. >> Hey man listen before we move forward can I ask you something? Assume I can fix your price. >> Is price the only thing that's stopping you from moving forward? Now what I just did is price the only thing stopping you from moving forward is isolating an objection if I fix this are you open to moving forward today? >> Yes. >> Which means again context right why I said this is so that if a lot of times what will happen is after you fix this they have a different objection but problem so you have to make sure you isolate isolate so that once you fix it it can't be a new objection. So whenever you get an objection the rule is you have to isolate the objection. So one is are you so price other than this are you ready to actually move forward with us is price the only thing stopping you from moving forward with us. So one is I identified whether it is an access to capital issue or allocation issue. >> Access to capital disqualify allocation realign before I realign I want to make sure this is the only objection. If I can solve for this are you ready to move forward today? So now I if they say yes I then try to figure out a solution. If they say no then I want to ask them what else is the problem so that I can understand all of the objections they have cuz that might be the problems that they want to solve not the actual price. Price might not be a problem. >> So before objective handling list down all the objections you should do objection discovery. >> Yes. >> Got it. >> So and you have to isolate which one of them and then one at a time you have to tackle it. So it'll be okay if I solve this are you ready to move forward? If they say no okay I completely understand what else is the problems you're having right this is one so one of the things that we basically do for this is okay on a scale of 1 to 10 one being I absolutely hate it 10 being I'm ready to pay you right now where are you >> if you say give me a number >> seven >> seven amazing why not a one >> because I need the service >> what about this service is making you tell one the reason we do this is we want you to retell yourself all the things you love about the service. >> Oh, >> so why not a one is negative. Then this by the way not me, it's Alex Heroszi. Hale Hermosi. Uh I wish to take credits from that guy. 10 being now be like what would you need to hear for it to be a 10. Now they have to tell you what they need, what is missing. >> Got it? >> This is one of the easiest way to kind of figure out what the disparity, what is missing. And generally if it's little, fix it and move on. But a lot of times before you objection handle, you need context. Lot of people are not getting context. Price to explain. No, it is not. It is Ganesha's like you're not trying to identify what the actual problem is. Sales is a dance of identification of problems and then solving problems. That's it. >> Beautiful. Once you do this, you're more or less done. >> Yeah, you're pretty much done. >> We should do this again and do part two. You know, the next time I'm going to actually walk you through the entire sales call and we're going to it's going to be a 6-hour thing where I'm going to break up a full sales call where I will show you what my three gates of hell are, which is my format of qualification. Okay. Bye. >> Amazing. Thank you so much, S. >>