How to Survive & Thrive After a Rocky Transition | Chris Jones Interview

Chris Jones, welcome to Acquiring Minds. Yeah, thank you. Well, really happy to be here. I listen to you pretty frequently these days going to and from work. And so, you know, it's it's an honor to be here. Awesome. Well, I I love to get listeners into the seat, Chris. So, it's it's great to have you here. You bought a foundation repair business in North Carolina. It was a tumultuous, difficult transition. But, you are feeling like maybe the worst is behind you as as I gathered from our pre-call. And in fact, you're even flirting with the idea of another acquisition. So, we are going to hear all of that and learn something about the foundation repair business, which is one that I and I bet many listeners have wondered about. Let's start with some background on you, please, Chris. Sure. Yeah, so I I did acquire this business just over a year ago now. Um, prior to purchasing the company, most of my career was spent in mortgage credit finance. So, I started out after getting my master's in finance, I was working at a private bank in Miami. And then, um, you know, I I really just started to feel more and more that entrepreneurial uh, desire that had been in the back of my head for a while. I'd read, you know, Startup Owner's Manual and I read, of course, all of the, you know, the ETA books, uh, Harvard Business Review and and Buy Then Build and all of that. And, you know, I I eventually realized, like a lot of listeners on your show, that uh, or guests on your show, that, you know, I didn't need to necessarily have a great idea or have a startup because I didn't have any great ideas, but I I knew that I wanted to have a business of my own someday. And so, I I really it dawned on me that I could I could buy a business. And, um, you know, I had I had been saving money um, all along and and I guess I also just had some uh, lucky timing, too, you know, in my life. Like, you know, when I bought my first house, it was 2011. And then I bought my second, you know, sold that and needed a bigger house because my wife got pregnant. So, I bought that house in, you know, late 2012. And so, that, you know, the real estate market at the time was very very depressed. And, uh, so that actually ended up helping me out quite a bit to equity gains are a large way that I was able to eventually find my business purchase when I moved from Miami to to Charlotte. Um, but I just I started to just, you know, digest everything I could about about ETA and and small business acquisition. And I um, I'd also kind of come to the realization of that time that I really would prefer not to live in Miami. Um, you know, Miami's a like a very vibrant and fun place and there's a lot going on, but and I have a young family and and I just felt like I had been to Charlotte for work a number of times with my my old employer. And it just seemed like a great place to be. Uh, and, you know, I kind of just decided that, you know, this this seems like something that I'd like to try out. So, when when COVID hit in in 2020, uh, you know, I was working from home. My wife was a was a teacher at the time and she was working from home. And, uh, you know, we were basically just my and my kids were at home. And we're like, well, we could, you know, we could do what we're doing right now from really anywhere. We don't have to be where we are. And uh, we had talked about trying to live somewhere else um, for a little while. And so, we just decided to give it a try. So, we we rented a house in Charlotte sight unseen uh, with a mutual like a a friend of our neighbors who went over and checked it out for us. And you know, showed us basically on on FaceTime what everything looked like. And we were like, okay, well, that seems like a nice spot. We could probably give that a try for a year. So, we we rented this house and got a moving truck and packed up our stuff and moved to Charlotte. And with under the kind of the Did you sell the house in Miami? We did not. We actually kept the house in Miami for uh, for another year because that was kind of our fallback plan was if if we didn't like it and if it didn't work out and it wasn't a better better life for us, we would just call the moving truck back and load it back up and go back home. So, do you get serious about your search when you get to Charlotte? Was the idea that you would kind of start this new life including a professional life in the in the form of buying a business upon arrival in Charlotte? Yeah, I mean, that's that's exactly right. The idea was kind of get to where we want to be geographically and then after that point, you know, I was planning to really put 100% of my efforts into into finding a business. And it was going to be, you know, very geographically focused in the greater Charlotte area. So, um, yeah, that's that's exactly what we did. I had I had started out looking for businesses in Charlotte while I was still in Florida a little bit. So, I actually got introduced to a number of brokers in the Charlotte community. And and funny enough, uh, I think it was the first or second uh, phone call I ever had with a seller was actually the the sellers of the company that I ultimately ended up purchasing back in the end of 2019. So, they had uh, they had put the business on the market at the end of 2019. And, um, I mean, I I really wasn't prepared to to, you know, even send an LOI or do anything at that point, but uh, I was just trying to kind of get some reps in terms of meeting with sellers and and looking at deals. So, I was talking to brokers in the in the Charlotte area. And they introduced me to this this business and I had a call with the sellers. And, um, you know, I didn't I didn't put in an offer or anything, but they ended up pulling the uh, the business off. They had an offer um, that that was I guess moving forward. And then they ended up pulling everything off the market because COVID hit. I mean, this was probably December of 2019 when I had the phone call with them initially. So, before closing would have taken place, they they took the business off the market and just decided to run it for a little bit longer until things normalized a bit. Well, give us a quick picture of what your search looked like once you started it in earnest from Charlotte. So, yeah, I mean, I the way that I describe it to people is I was not really, you know, doing a search fund. I was not doing anything like that. I was just kind of a guy looking to buy a business. So, I was working from home. Um, and, you know, my my wife would go to work, my kids would go to school and it was very quiet in there. And, you know, I was used to working uh, fair amount of hours with my with my former employer. So, uh, I just basically squeezed it in whenever I could. I mean, I would work during the day. I would be whenever I had some time, I would I would talk to brokers. I would, you know, review Sims. Um, I would work late at night to, you know, review the Sims when they came back in. You know, so that I wasn't losing too much productivity at work. But, um, you know, I I think you've had other guests that made similar comments. Like, I probably wasn't as good of an employee at that point as I as I could have been because I was definitely trying to to do something else. I just, you know, I just I I knew that I was like, well, here we are. I'm here now. Time to dedicate as much as I can. But at the same time, I wasn't I wasn't going to quit my job and try and raise a search fund and all of that because I had to, you know, I had my family obligations that uh, that I needed to to tend to. So, I wasn't I was just trying to trying to do broker outreach and trying to review as many deals as I could. And I was really just focusing on the to, I said, you know, everything in my price range that's in this geography, I want to look at. I was very industry agnostic. And, you know, saw a lot of And what was your price range? I was looking for anything in kind of the two to two to four million dollar range. And you connect with the local brokers. And I assume you're also looking at BizBuySell. Right. How do you happen across the or I guess I should say, how does the the business that you'd already made contact with back in 2019 circle back around to your land on your desk? So, the I mean, the the brokers that had brought it forth originally, the the the sellers came back to them when they were ready to to relist it. And, uh, I was working pretty closely with that particular brokerage because they they see a lot of, um, you know, they were one of the bigger brokerages in this area. And they they specialize in kind of North and South Carolina. And so, I was I was had a basically a buyer's representative over there at that brokerage that was uh, he was I was I guess on their short list at that point where anything that came up, they would call me right away and and uh, you know, present it to me. And that came after just showing them that I was serious for for significant amount of time, going to lunches with them and just demonstrating that, you know, this is 100% what I expect to do ultimately. So, took a little while to get to that point, but eventually got on their short list. That's great to hear um, because, of course, getting brokers to take you seriously is kind of one of the first hurdles that a searcher has to get across. Getting to the point where actually on their short list, um, is maybe is maybe even more progress than your average searcher hopes to make. So that's it's great that you were able to do that. So how often were they calling you with a new deal and how often were those deals like something that you wanted to look at? Yeah, I mean I was probably in total from all the different brokers I was talking to. I was probably looking at one or two deals a week. And you know, some of them were immediate knows and and so I didn't really look at anything much that given week. But then um Mhm. You know, other ones would would come along and and they would seem like they would fit some of the boxes but not all of the boxes and so I'd spend some time with it but then you know, politely decline. Um but uh you know, yeah they were I mean whenever they had something that that fit they were they're really good about it. So I have you know, the the I have good things to say about the broker that I worked with. Well, if you were industry agnostic and you said your price range was two to four million. Did you say? Yes. Yeah, that's right. That's a lot of businesses. I mean that's a lot of businesses are going to fall in that price range. Um you know, above four million you start to get into pretty sizable business that might attract the attention of PE and and below that size it's going to be a you know, it's going to be I mean there's going to be a lot of businesses that sell for less than two million to be sure. Um but still you you that you cast a pretty wide net which of course if it's a geographically constrained search you're going to need to do anyway. Right. Yeah, we had just packed up and moved here so I I my wife especially and you know, me and nobody was interested at that point in in turning around relocating again anytime soon. So uh you know, moving sucks. So uh didn't want to do that again if if we didn't have to and so that was I was pretty firm on that requirement. But yeah, I looked at I looked at everything from you know, trucking companies to uh fast food restaurants to the the companies that produce plastic to put over crops and on the top of the top of uh dumpster trucks. Just all sorts of crazy stuff. So but a lot of home services. And so Yeah, well that's a that's a common one. So so the business that you did buy is is brought back on the market to these brokers that you now have a relationship with. They call you. They tell you about it. You're all you you recall it from back in 2019. Tell us how all of that unfolds. So yes, they reached out to me and they said oh I know that you did talk to these people uh you know, a couple years ago. Wanted to let you know that it is back on the market and the people that had originally made an offer not you know, are not going to be making an offer this time. That was around January of 2022. So I I said yeah, I'm I'm interested definitely. Let's uh let's let's see. Um so I started down the path with them and did due diligence. Uh you know, at that point I had a couple SBA lenders that I was pretty familiar with. And uh I had a I had an attorney and I had a CPA lined up cuz I was I was trying to do my part to be ready when the right business came along. And uh so I went and I did got further into due diligence with them than most of the other companies. Uh I did issue an LOI. My understanding is that there was two other potential buyers two or three other potential buyers at the time. And uh I was informed uh eventually that you know, my offer was not accepted. That basically I had lost out to another um another buyer. So yeah, I was disappointed about that and I went and I you know, I talked to my wife. I was like oh you know, I thought that this really might have worked out. I was pretty excited about this one and um you know, she was like well, you know, whatever happens happens. It's that's the way these things go. There'll be something else. And so I just kept looking at other businesses. I met with a couple of other um couple of other sellers in the next three months or so and then I got a call back from the broker that and they were telling me that they didn't think that the deal was going to go through but they weren't sure yet. They wanted to give me a heads up and see if I was still interested just in case it didn't go through. So I guess they were they were just trying to keep me warm. Um and yeah, I mean about two three weeks after that um got a call from them and said that the the deal did not go through with the original buyer. So um you know, I didn't get a ton of color around what happened. My understanding is that he he had kind of wanted to make it more of a uh hands-off passive um type of investment. Uh from from what I know he was a Harvard grad and a fighter pilot and had a consulting business and had all these other things. I was like yeah, I probably would have taken his offer too. No problem. Uh but um yeah, it fell through. I guess he realized that it was going to be there was going to be more to it than more active management than he thought and I you know, I was that didn't I didn't shy away from that because I expected to quit my job and do this all day every day as my new career. So uh I said fine, you know, yeah I'm I'm still interested. So Speaking of active management, we're we're about to hear just how active this management was and is. Is there anything that you want to say cuz I want to I want to spend some time once you're in actually in the seat, Chris. Is there anything that you want to call our attention to um about the transaction itself and the negotiation? Um you know, the transaction was was okay. Um there was a couple things that that came up along the way where you know, I I had been basically working off of QuickBooks uh uh numbers the entire time and uh you know, doing all of my due diligence and and modeling cash flow off of the QuickBooks numbers and then uh pretty late in the process I got a link to some other file that was in the that got put in the data room and it had this this whole suite of management reporting. And uh the management reporting was you know, had different numbers for for sales and and production and all of that than what was in QuickBooks. And so I was like well, what's all this, you know? Uh how do how do I make sense of this? So we spent a fair amount of time and we went through that and eventually I was able to get comfortable with the differences between how they internally reported numbers versus how they were doing it for accounting purposes. But that was just kind of it wasn't really presented to me from the beginning. It was kind of just something that was you know, eventually made its way to the data room and I had to ask about it and then we we dug into it a bit. Um And and was that a harbinger of of things to come? Was that kind of emblematic of how the business was run that that things were not always what they seemed or was that an innocent oversight? I mean I I I mean it I'll I'll say it was just something that was probably an innocent oversight. I mean there was probably a little bit of an element of you know, if just wait for him to ask and then you know, then we'll give him information once he asks about it. But uh it it it wasn't nothing nothing terrible came out of that. So I was able to kind of get around that. One of the other things that that kept popping up is when we'd be reviewing the the QuickBooks P&L numbers, their numbers would would kind of change from from one time I looked at it to the next like you know, February's P&L number would be this uh this week and then slightly different next week. And uh I was like well, you know, I thought the books were closed and there was always well, you know, this invoice came in or that invoice came in or we ended up finishing this job that wasn't accounted for. So uh little things like that. I mean I again you know, it was just kind of a at the time I was like well, I think I can I can get over this. Uh it's you know, it's small business. I understand that they don't have the most sophisticated accounting practices. So uh but yeah, little things like that were having invoices being processed way after the fact was uh you know, a little bit of a of a red flag at the time. Okay, Chris. So as you're going through the transaction, there are what we might call yellow flags or or small red flags that are appearing. Um but it's easy to ex kind of explain that away to oneself by saying well, this is the nature of small business. Um Let's fast forward now to you actually getting into the business. Tell us about the first month. So the first Oh I I mean even the the first day uh I mean I I assume that's chaotic chaotic for everybody. But um you know, even just leading up to that first day like the the week before was was very chaotic before closing. Um you know, I was like I I was moving houses. Uh my my son had to have an emergency surgery. Um I was trying to close on a on a HELOC on my house and it finally closed in time because I was trying to avoid having to uh have any equity available so that uh for the SBA loan. So that was a little little little um you know, insight that had been passed along to me by my lender that you know, if you well, if you have a you'll still have a personal guarantee but if you take up any excess uh equity with with this HELOC, you will then not have to have a lien on your house. I was like oh that sounds really nice. Let me let me do that. I had not heard that. Yeah. So, that was uh that was great. Uh but I was trying to get all of those things taken care of and then um the day of the sale, I basically uh came towards the office and and the sellers were saying, "Oh, well, you know, we're going to we're going to make the announcement at the end of the day and right after we make the announcement, you can come over." So, I got got towards the office a little bit early. There's a there's a fast food restaurant right across the street from our office and so I figured, "Oh, I'll just sit here and wait for the word." And you know, I felt like I was sitting there forever. Went way past the time when I when I was expected to be told to to come over and introduce myself. Um and so eventually I got I got the call to come over and introduce myself and it was just uh it was a lot of kind of blank stares from people. Uh it was a lot of people that were that had a hard time with it and were just confused and you know, that my understanding I found out later is that you know, they had pretty recently made an announcement to people that were not selling this company. Uh you know, cuz they had they had basically um you know, started a new a new chapter in their life and had moved from being close to the office to being about an hour a little little over an hour away from the office. So, they they weren't really in the office very often. So, I guess there was some speculation that they might be selling the company and then you know, they told everybody, "No, we're not selling the company." and then turn around a month or so later and yeah, we are selling the company and here's the guy. He's right here. He's sitting at Bojangles across the street. So, Oh, man. Yeah. So, you could feel you could feel the tension in the room in the the confusion in the kind of lack of receptivity to your to you. And your message. that they were just confused with with everything in general. Um I tried to kind of keep my my speech short and and touch on the typical things you'd want to touch on of I'm not planning to change anything. I just want to build on all the great things that this company is all about and help grow and and you know, I'm going to be here all day every day and all of those things that I had hoped would kind of put people at ease and you know, I think maybe it did to some extent, but I think they were just they were just taken aback by cuz nobody kind of saw it coming. Mhm. So, um that was that was the first day. Um the next couple weeks were we had kind of rushed the closing because there was supposed to be a management retreat that I was going to go on uh to to Charleston or somewhere and uh so we had trying to rush the closing and and just get it done because we wanted to go on this retreat and I was going to go strategize with the leaders of the company and the and the sellers and all of that. And then you know, as soon as we closed, I realized like this this just isn't possible. Like I can't I can't go out of town for several days now. I felt like the first probably 2 weeks post closing, I was just basically sitting in in my office here uh switching accounts for the most part. I mean, there's there was a lot of legwork to be done with everything from you know, fleet fuel cards to three or four different uh phone, internet and uh you know, uh service providers for alarm systems or everything. Like everything just took a really long time to to switch these accounts over. So, I felt like I was at it for literally about 2 weeks just sitting in the office and this is time that I wasn't spending with the guys you know, that were doing that do the production or going out in the field or just even forming relationships. I was basically just holed up in my office on the phone for for 2 weeks. So, you know, that was kind of a lesson learned in the in the future. Um you know, if I was to do it again, I would probably want to actually consummate the closing and get all of that stuff ironed out before making the announcement. So, that wasn't just kind of uh you know, hey, I'm here and I'll be in the office on the phone if you need me. Mhm. So, it would have been really nice to have that that pressure off. So, but Yeah, that well, that's a great tip because it this transitioning of accounts is something that comes up a lot. Um but as you paint a picture of it that you know, you had this rocky first day speech and then rather than kind of trying to claw your way back out of that with rapport building and glad-handing and going around and kind of getting to know people, you're just some new guy holed up in in the office. Um Right. Well, their company had been around since Yeah, their company had been around since 2006 also. So, they had all these long established accounts and you know, I had just set up a new LLC a month before with that no no credit history, brand new EIN, all of that. And so it some of these some of these cases were you know, you're trying to get a pretty significant line of credit with the you know, the fuel company or with the material suppliers and and all those things. Like to be a new business with no credit and be a new owner, that was tougher than I thought it would be for sure. Okay. Um carry on. So, you you push your way through these 2 weeks uh and but are not really getting to know the team and decide you can't go to this retreat. By the way, before you answer that uh Chris, I didn't I didn't ask you for a kind of size of business. How how big is it in dollar numbers and people numbers and anything you can share? So, we've got about uh 35 employees um and revenue-wise, we're we're we're probably on track to be about $6 million company this year for revenue. Thank you for that. So, what happens after these first these first rocky 2 weeks? Uh well, I mean, we had kind of we had made plans to get together and have the seller come in and spend time here in the office and cross-train me. And uh I think there were a couple times that that the seller came in and but it really kind of more turned into them going around and talking to the guys and and you know, doing more social things rather than sitting down and and training my training me on anything in particular. And so I just it it kind of after a couple of those sessions, uh it became clear to me that really I wasn't getting a whole lot out of that. So, I just figured, you know, there there's no real reason to to keep doing this. You know, it's clear that the the seller wanted to kind of get on with their new endeavors and uh and I would just probably be better off just figuring it out on my own. So, uh there really wasn't much of a transition period, so to speak. And Chris, talk a little bit about the fact that you you were I mean, there was going to be a learning curve here. You're buying a foundation repair business, which is kind of like broadly in the construction and trades industry. Um and you as you described at the outset, you know, coming from very white-collar environment um behind a computer screen to a very different environment and we're going to have to learn at least something about the business of foundation repair. So, you were anticipating a learning curve. Talk talk us through how you were thinking about that and then and then what it was actually like once you got in the seat. Yeah, so I mean, I definitely was anticipating a learning curve. I mean, coming from my the background that I had working at a in in finance and spreadsheets most of the day, I knew that you know, I was not going to get a a company that that was exactly like what I had been doing in the past. So, I was well aware there was going to be a learning curve no matter what. Um I knew coming into this one that there was going to be a little bit more of a learning curve just because the fact that is you know, it is construction and I don't have a background in construction. Um one of the stipulations with the the deal was that I had to get my general contractor's license. So, that was um you know, I went out I I did some research into it and it didn't seem like anything that was too crazy. It just seemed like a lot of reading of books and studying and then taking a couple tests and uh so I you know, I figured, I well, I I'm decent at taking tests, so I'll probably be okay. But um I you know, I didn't have time for the first couple months to really even get into studying and doing all that just because I was at the business all the time and there was just even on the weekends I was you know, doing work and I didn't have a lot of opportunity to study. Um but that yeah, the the learning curve and the the having the background that wasn't in construction was probably my biggest concern going into it and my I was really concerned about how I was going to be received by the people in the company coming in without that background. Um the prior owner um you know, owners, it was a husband and wife team and the husband had started the company from the ground up and he was really kind of revered by the guys around here. Like they they still tell stories about him and the time he did this crazy thing or you know, did this you know, this at a house and fix some problem by hitting it with a hammer really hard or you know, stuff like that. Like there he was kind of like a he was he was really looked up to by the by the guys around here, and I knew that that was a very different from where than than than my background. And I'm just kind of also naturally a semi-introverted person. You know, I'm not uh I I have always felt more comfortable kind of doing the doing the analytical work than than doing than, you know, out there on construction site and screwing around with the guys and cracking jokes and all of that. So, I knew that it was going to be I knew that it was going to be a transition, but I you know, I felt like this is a challenge. I I can do this. I felt pretty confident, and I felt like as long as I come in and I treat people fairly and with respect, uh eventually that they'll hopefully recognize that. And if they don't, then you know, that's that's unfortunate. But uh you know, that's that really is the way that it worked out. And the the funny thing is that uh the the the guys that are actually doing the construction work have been very, very welcoming and accepting of me, and uh teach me um teach me things all the time. I go out and I'll go to jobs with them, and they know that I, you know, don't necessarily have a lot of the knowledge that they do. And so, they'll they'll they'll show me things and uh explain themselves and why they're doing the things that they're doing. So, I really do appreciate that. They've actually been really great. Um the problems that I had uh with employees was much more so on the office and the and the management side, which was the total opposite of what I had expected. Yeah. I thought it would be the construction construction guys that would not accept me. So. Yeah. Yeah. Well, pick your poison. But I am But no, that's great. I'm glad to hear really glad to hear that that I love hearing um that about, you know, crews, tradespeople being well welcoming and being receptive to an eager new buyer learning um because it I just feel like it's um you know, you're you're putting yourself in a vulnerable position going out there. You're the boss. You're this finance guy who came in and bought the business, but you know, you're willing to kind of be like, "Hey, you guys are the experts, and I'm here to learn. Teach me." I just I I think it's a really good and healthy dynamic. Um but good segue there, Chris. So, tell us tell us what problems you had with with the people who are at home base, the people in the office. So, yeah, I mean, those started pretty soon thereafter. I mean, there was a lot of um since the sellers hadn't been on site a lot, there was kind of almost like no adult supervision, really. Uh so, there was a lot of people kind of going out to long 2-hour lunches and having a bunch of beers at lunch and coming back and and, you know, coming back from that lunch and then just kind of screwing around the shop and doing whatever they could to pass the time until it was time to go home and not actually really contributing a lot. There was that, and then there was also uh you know, the the the person who was the general manager when I came in, um I had been assured that he was rock solid, and this guy's been with the company for a long time, and and he can do everything. You know, you don't even really need to be You don't even really need to go into the office. Uh and, you know, I I was kind of initially hoping that he was going to be the qualifier for the business just because he had his whole, you know, career had been spent in in construction. And so, I was kind of banking on him getting his general contractor's license and being the qualifier. Um so, I started to get him to enroll in the classes, and I paid for, you know, all the books and the classes, and and encouraged him to go out and and get that license for us, which we needed. And um you know, he went out and he he did it, and uh basically as soon as he passed the state test, which isn't even the all of the tests you have to take. He just He passed the the one test. He came in to me the next day, and he uh he gave me an envelope with uh a couple hundred dollars in it that was the cost of all the classes and uh resignation letter saying that he was quitting. So, I thought, "Oh, okay. Well, there goes there goes that. Um and then also, you know, I don't have a I don't have a general manager right now." So, I came to find out later that uh I think it was 8 days after I purchased the business, he had set up his own uh LLC and was basically planning from the very, very beginning to uh to go out on his own. Um and you know, I I found out from just talking to people around that I guess there had been some conversation with the sellers and with him a few years back, which was kind of a informal conversation over dinner or something along those lines where they had had kind of informally suggested to him that if they were to ever sell the business, that they would sell it to him. So, I I think he was just totally blindsided and and felt betrayed, even. I think he was Yeah, I think he was blindsided and felt betrayed, exactly right. And uh you know, he told me when he was when he was giving his resignation, he's like, "You know, I have nothing against you. You're just a guy that bought a business, but this is this is different than what I signed up for." So, and I said, you know, I was like, "All right. I was like, all right." I was like, "Well, you know, it's a it's a free country. Uh obviously, I wish you luck and go out and uh you know, do what you want to do. Um like I don't don't try and hire the people away from here, but if you want to go out and start your own company, that's that's fine with me." So, you know, yeah, now he has a uh competing company in the area. Wow. And the just going back a little bit to his role within the business as GM, your seller general manager your sellers uh have told you that he's uh rock solid and a rock star, um and you who doesn't know the business of a foundation repair, you're you're perfectly willing to be in the business all day, every day to learn it. Um but were you envisioning really leaning on this person um to to keep the trains running on time as you moved up that learning curve? I mean, to what extent were you panicked when he gave notice? I guess is a more concise way of asking. Uh so, yeah, I was Were you were you fine like was it sucked, but you could you figured you could manage? Yeah, I was definitely during due diligence, I was definitely counting on him a lot. I was planning to lean on him a lot um as the as one of the people that had the most, you know, product and technical knowledge, and also somebody that kept the trains running on time and had a good rapport with all the guys, and just oversaw I mean, he didn't he wasn't really involved with uh P&L or sales, but he was he was very heavy on kind of the operations and the management and the production side of the house, uh managing the guys going out in the field. Uh so, yeah, it was during due diligence, I was definitely thinking, "Oh, well, this is you know, this is one of the things that gets gives me comfort is that there's this person in place. He's a young guy. Uh he's been there for a couple years, but you know, not too long and not too short. You know, hopefully I can get in there and, you know, we can form a good relationship and and you know, I told him I was like, you know, I I I plan to grow this company, and I would definitely like to see you make a lot more money than you're than you're making now." Um which he wasn't making bad money at the time. I mean, and he had a, you know, free you know, free King Ranch F-250 truck with a gas card and a paid cell phone and all of these things and, you know, good salary, got a percentage of production. But uh it just, you know, we just never we just never really clicked, and uh and I mean, I I just don't think it was ever There was nothing that could have been different that it could have made it work, I don't think. I think he was just very He had a very good relationship with the sellers, and I think he was blindsided and hurt and didn't want to be associated with the business anymore. So, uh that led that led to him, you know, he was he was acting out like he was one of the ones that was going out and, you know, having a bunch of beers at lunch and coming back at 2:00, and it was like, "Well, what do you Where have you been? Like, where have you been for the last couple hours?" And then uh and, you know, any excuse there was to go visit a job to get out of the office and not be here in the office, he'd be like, "Oh, I'll go out there. I'll I'll He would volunteer for every possible opportunity to not be here. So, I mean, I was sitting there, and I was like, "Well, jeez, like this is not this is not working very well at all. Like this guy is not not actually helping me at all. So, by the time that he came around to uh tendering his resignation, it was it was half concern and half relief, I'd say, because I knew that that was not a sustainable uh way to do things. So. Yeah, he was either going to quit, or you were going to have to have an uncomfortable conversation with him. Um Well, yeah, I did and I did have uncomfortable conversations with him, but the thing was like I coming in here as as somebody without industry experience and and new and and all of that, like I was really concerned about, well, what's going to happen to everybody here and their morale if if I fire this guy that's been their leader for the last couple years because he you know, is is not doing his job. Like he was he did have a great rapport with all the guys. I mean, that was most of what he did was sitting around and BSing with the guys at the end of the day and hanging out. So, I I was thinking if I if I fire this guy, like who knows uh what everyone's reaction is going to be. Totally. So unpredictable and and and daunting. On the other hand, you know, maybe they saw that he was taking long lunches and not working very hard and coming back with beer on his breath and there there was resentment on their part even though they were joshing around with him at the end of the day. So, Yeah, but they'd been joshing around with him after they'd been after they'd been working for, you know, 10 12 hours doing doing serious hard dirty work. Yeah. So, yeah. So, yeah, I do think they that definitely was picked up on by some of the guys and some of the guys did make comments to me about that, but I still just had this feeling that uh you know, he was he was very important and and that there might be some sort of mutiny if uh if he wasn't here, but uh you know, that turns out that wasn't the case. Like that really it was it was okay. Well, that that's great, Chris. Um I mean, that's great that there wasn't a mutiny. I'm reminded of a of one of my of one of my recent interviews, the one that was anonymous with the the person who um who's who's really in it right now and and I mean, really it's not clear if she's going to make it through. Um but one of the many disastrous things that happens is yeah, some of the leadership um leaves and it it that what Yeah, what does that do to morale? Does it could because everybody you know, if if if if somebody if somebody is a leader in the business and then leaves and other people admire that person, um do they follow that I mean, especially if the person is going off to, you know, start a competing entity. Right. do they you know, why not just go with him? I like that guy. So, I thank you very much, you know, goodbye new owner. I'm going to just go work for this guy who I already know and respect. So, yeah, you just worry about this terrible domino effect uh taking hold. Well, Chris, you so you you lose your GM um that even though as we now hear like maybe that was for the best um and and it maybe even gave you some relief even in the moment, but still on paper, not a good thing. Your sellers are not helpful at all in the transition. So, all these kind of pillars you thought you were going to have to lean on and help you get your arms around this business have crashed down, disappeared, gone away. Uh how you feeling? Have you had a fetal position moment at this point yet? Yeah, uh I was I was not feeling uh great for the first couple months. I'd say the first four to six months. Uh I didn't have the fetal position on the bathroom floor. I think I had a position where I was sitting at the picnic table outside and I was like, I just had this wave of nausea coming over me. I'm like, what have I done? Like this is did I make a terrible mistake? Is is everything that I've been working towards just amounted to this and this was the wrong thing to do. But uh you know, so I definitely felt like that for a while. I mean, I was I was pretty pretty highly stressed for a couple months. I mean, I was at the point where, you know, I wasn't very much fun to be around at home and I wasn't really enjoying even on the weekends when I was trying to hang out with my family and and do things to distract me. I like I just I couldn't get these things off of my mind. So, uh you know, that was that was a little bit tough and obviously that uh stressed my wife out pretty considerably, too, because just her seeing me like this and she was saying, "Oh, yeah, what can I do to help?" I was like, "Well, I I I appreciate it, but there's nothing you can do to help. I just have to figure it out." So, uh but you know, we that that that was tough. What about the the the family piece and just the fact that you guys have made this other parallel big decision to move up to North Carolina. So, you've made a number of kind of big decisions in tandem. Does it feel like the whole thing is in jeopardy now? That I mean, the you know, not only maybe do you have moments where you're like, "Man, I wish I hadn't bought this business. Man, I wish we were back in Florida in that house we owned." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. states away. I've definitely had that thought a couple times. Not recently, but at at the you know, a year ago I definitely had that thought a couple times like, "Well, jeez, I've got I had a really nice I had a nice position at a great company. I was, you know, basically the number two person in our group. Um I got to I had a ton of leeway and a ton of freedom that everybody trusted me. I got a nice bonus at the end of the year every year. I had a I had a we'd lived in a great neighborhood and my kids' school was two minutes away and it was it was really it wasn't a nice existence. Like there was nothing uh at all wrong with it. Um I just for I definitely had that thought like maybe maybe that would have been better to just keep doing that, but uh yeah, that was just that was just temporary. I I have I'm not having those thoughts any longer and I haven't had those thoughts for a while now. I realized that we're we're on the right track. So, uh but yeah, at the time it was it was nerve-wracking. I I want to get to how you got things onto the right track, but indulge me and can we just dwell in this ugly part for a minute? Like the moment but really just for the benefit of people who might um be experiencing this or have to experience this at some point. Your you know, the the the picnic table moment, the nausea moment. Um um what do you do? Is it the is it like how did you manage that? Is it the the Churchill quote like when you're going through hell, uh keep going sort of thing or or was there was there anything anything you'd advise somebody in that position? Yeah, I I think it was just just keep going at that point. I mean, I uh there really wasn't any alternative. I mean, as you know, when you you buy a business, it's it's not liquid. Uh you sign a personal guarantee. You're doing all of these things. You've quit your job. Uh there really is no alternative. Like you have sailed to the shore and burned the ships and you got to figure out how to make it work. So, that's that's where I was. Yeah. That's where I was and uh there was no there was no other option. I just had to kind of keep going and trust that if I kept doing what I was doing day in and day out and tried to you know, be smart about the what people brought on to the company, like what new people were brought on and how to shuffle around existing people that that we could uh we could make it work and um that was really it. I mean, it was just kind of blind blind faith at that point and just having faith in in myself and that, you know, there was no other alternative. I couldn't do anything else. So, Yeah, exactly. It's it it kind of makes things simple when there there's no options. Right. Yeah. Um not easier, but maybe simple. Um okay, Chris, well, well, tell us more about the sellers. You know, um are you having interactions with them as this transition, you know, for example, the the thing about the um they had had apparently been implied to the GM that maybe he'd have a shot at buying the business. Are did you circle back with the sellers and ask them about this? Are you having interactions with the sellers or have they just disappeared? I mean, they were I was coming to them for things that I had to go to them for. Um not really for advice, but really more on accounts that I had questions on or how does this this or that work around the office, but not really I really wasn't going to them for too much advice at that point. Um you know, one of the other things that came up is that uh we had a the way that the broker that I worked with uh was is that they had a kind of a impartial attorney draft all of the closing documents. So, the seller paid half of the attorney's fees and I paid half of the attorney's fees. And then I had a separate attorney on my side uh reviewing everything. But the the the APA and everything had kind of a they had a whip schedule and the whip schedule had language, but it didn't have dollars uh tied to the language. So, there was all these jobs that were in process when I when I bought the business. And I think that the seller had their interpretation in their mind and they thought it was clear and I had my interpretation in my mind and I thought it was clear. And then we close and it turns out that we're on very different sides of of the aisle in terms of what we thought was uh was owed to whom for for whip. So, um And Chris, define whip. De- De- Just define whip for people. Yeah, so the the the work in progress and in this this particular case I'm talking about the jobs that we have going on. So, we have you know, our average job is 10 to 15,000 dollars and we have, you know, a dozen or so jobs going on at any given point in various stages of completion. And the way that we track it is that you sign a the the the crew that's working on the job just puts in an estimate of how how much they think it is completed on a percentage basis. So, you know, this job's 20% done or that job's 80% done. And so, there was this sheet that had all these jobs that were in process with different percentages. And uh you know, I I thought that uh I thought that it was clear in the in the documentation and I guess the seller thought it was clear in the documentation, but we had different interpretations and so, post closing um it was I was like, "Okay, well, you know, so what about this you know, this post closing true up?" And the seller was like, "Yeah, well, what about the post closing true up? You owe you owe us money." And I was like, "Well, no, no, no. You owe me money." So, uh there was some back and forth on that for a while and we had to, you know, get the attorneys re-involved and things like that, but uh you know, at the time like the there there was some talk that between the seller and the the prior general manager of like, "Well, you know, he owes us money and he's not even paying it." type of thing. And I was like, "No, no, that's that's not correct. That's not what's going on here at all." Two questions, Chris. Do you think it was an honest disagreement between you and them or less than honest? And and uh second question what was the delta between what they thought you owed them and what you thought they owed you? Uh so on the the honesty part I mean I I would like to think that it was an honest misinterpretation. You know when I kind of laid it out very simplistically it was like well you know you'd be getting paid 104% of this job. So under your math so that how can you get paid 104% of a job? That doesn't make any sense. And so I don't know. I'd like to think it was just an honest the verbage in the agreement you know this is my first time getting through a asset purchase agreement and I did have an attorney and he's a great attorney but like I don't know somehow we my recommendation to anybody would just be try and put exact dollars in the agreement rather than language as to how to handle whip or or jobs in progress. So I don't know. I think it was probably an honest mistake but it was definitely it was definitely something that was a point of contention and it was something that uh you know the the the some of the employees were exposed to that they really shouldn't have been because that just that just kind of laid some seeds of doubt as far as like well this guy is coming in now here now he owes he owes money to them and he doesn't want to pay it and you know is this guy even know what the hell he's doing type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So so we we ended up settling that up and uh it was fine. I did not owe any money in the end. So then the the delta to answer your question about the delta the delta was quite wide. Quite wide. So like you know I don't want to say the exact numbers but it was like somewhere between you owe me a pretty good amount of money and you owe me like twice that pretty good amount of money type of thing. Yeah. Yeah. So just something that really it shouldn't have even been an issue but I feel like since we were kind of we we had been really trying to trying to close at the end of June 30th at the end of the first half to make it a clean closing. So we had been working really hard and pushing and pushing to close on June 30th just so it was really clean for the books and everything. Uh and we missed that. We ended up closing on July 12th. But I think because we were rushing a little bit to try and get everything done um you know there was some things that could probably could have been a little bit more well-defined in there. Okay. Yeah so that that was another challenge Chris. So um I guess the question would be what has happened or what did you do to improve the situation such that some of these challenge happily many of these challenges are pretty solidly in the rearview mirror at this point and from what I gather you're feeling pretty good about the business these days. I I am I am. I it got it got kind of worse before it got better. Um Do tell. The the general manager left in in early October of 2022 and right when he left our our sales just fell off a cliff that month. So that was I was like oh no. Yeah it was terrifying. I was cuz we're I mean we're we're mostly a project-based company. So we're just kind of like you know you you hear oh you should find a company with recurring revenue and I was like well you know there's all these project-based companies out there in construction foundation repair structure repair that's not going anywhere. People are always going to need this type of work. So what I didn't realize is that there is you know there's a little bit more seasonality to it than I had originally anticipated going in. Partially that had to do with how revenue is recognized before you know coming out of COVID and the housing boom that came with it they had a pretty significant backlog of of work when we were doing due diligence. And you know revenue is recognized when the job was started not when the job was sold. So what that meant was you could you had your big backlog and it just existed as a as a liability and it wasn't recognized as revenue until they started the job. So when you have a big backlog you can keep starting jobs in the winter even if you're not really selling as much. So that kind of that kind of because of that I kind of missed some of the seasonality to it. Mhm. And you know that had been the case since 2020 so I was looking over the last couple years of financials and that had been kind of the the case. So in October sales really kind of took a big big drop and you know the the the the employee challenges that I was having too of course I was being paranoid and I was thinking you know oh someone's you know stealing business. There's got to be something nefarious going on here. The the wife of the prior general manager who who left was was doing our permits for us. So she actually had access to our system a little bit after the fact when after after he left. Um so I you know I I put a stop to that but I was really I was really thinking that something is going on here. And there was people in the office too um especially one person that was you know that was really loyal to the general manager. And he had actually helped her negotiate a big pay raise right before he left. So uh she got she got her big pay raise but she was still just very unhappy working here um Mhm. after he left and you know nothing was going to save that. So ultimately we we parted ways but I was really concerned that there was business just leaking out uh to him or to someone else. Um and so yeah the the winter from like October November December it's part of it's just seasonality and then the holidays you know people don't want you coming to their house and banging around under the under the structure while they have their friends and family in town or they're out on vacation or whatever it may be. There's just less you know there's less less issues and moisture issues that come up that that is kind of what generates a lot of phone calls. So yeah the the the that that time of the year got got slower and so they got to the point where you know we were selling jobs and we were starting them pretty soon right after. And if if guys didn't have anything to do that day I would pay their pay them their hourly rate to to work in the warehouse and help clean up the warehouse and get everything organized because I really was very fearful of you know letting anyone go that was a great a great person. And so I was I was trying to keep everyone busy and gainfully employed. And so we did that for a couple for like month and a half or so. Two months and yeah it burned I mean it burned a lot of cash doing that. And uh you know that was that was not that was that was probably the the most stressful time I would say cuz like I I can deal with people leaving and I can deal with anything any challenges like that if someone doesn't want to be here and doesn't like me that's fine they don't have to be here. But the guys that did want to be here and and bought into the vision I had this you know I had this responsibility to keep them employed and and keep them uh busy and taking care of allowed to support their families and not you know otherwise they'll leave so that was that was that was what was more stressful I'd say than anything else. So um well you're also sitting there wondering if there if there's some a problem with the absolute foundation haha of the business that all of a sudden all of a sudden there's no sales. I mean right you know the money the money spigot has to be on for anything else downstream of that to work. Yeah exactly. Um you know I think that there there had been some changes to marketing too right before I took over. Some of the the the TV commercials were turned off. One of the they had a they had a really strong sales guy who he was he had kind of come back and asked for more money and he was allowed to leave and he was replaced by somebody that was his background was in driving concrete trucks. Like never sold anything and didn't even particularly like dealing with people. So so I was down to basically one sales guy at the time and the marketing had been kind of reduced for for a while. So it was a lot of digging out of that hole to uh and I think that we really felt the effects of it that November and December. So. And so then what happened in January? Did sales just sort of miraculously start coming back? And it it was it basically the seasonality worked itself through? Yeah I mean I'd say part of it was the seasonality. Part of it was that we we made some changes. I brought on a new marketing company that was really helping us with some of our organic rankings you know to some of the stuff that I thought that we should be on the first like the first result on Google since we've been around so long like we were on the third page of Google and that's the type of stuff that you know when you're doing due diligence you're like oh low-hanging fruit I can I can fix that and that'll be easy and that'll drive a lot more traffic but those things do take a little bit of time right? You can't you can't just fix SEO overnight and it takes couple months. So I brought in a new company and their results were starting to pay off. There was a guy here who was the the sales manager and I uh changed his position to be the director of operations. So he took over the more of the production side and he became the one that was keeping the trains running on time and he had a he had a good background in uh in construction. So, that was that was definitely helpful. Um the one sales guy that was not you know was admittedly like he'll even say that he doesn't like doing sales. So, it's like well then maybe that's not the right position for you. So, we took him out of that and brought in somebody who uh had some experience doing the work but also really wanted to do the sales. Uh started training him at that time. Uh so, all of those things kind of working and then yeah, there was there was some seasonality to it too. But, all of those things kind of working together when we got to January, it just just everything kind of start working and we started getting you know good amount of business coming back and and that was it was a great feeling. Well, here we are in August, Chris. So, are you do you have a plan for this coming December November December when uh I mean are you having to kind of like you know account for the fact that are you expecting that the business will drop off again like seasonally as it did last year and are plan for that? I'm planning for for something. I'm I'm I guess I'm cautiously optimistic about it. I'm I'm hoping that it's not going to be like last year. I really don't think it will be because of all the things that we've done to make improvements. I mean we recently released a new website that's uh that that that's much more current and you know user-friendly and able to get lead forms. Uh recently hired a business development manager who's going to be going out and working with these um you know who who would be our referral partners like structural engineers, home inspectors, realtors, those types of folks that that could refer us business. Um just I'm I'm really spending a fair amount of my time working with the the marketing company trying to you know make sure that everything that they're doing makes sense. Uh make sure we're hitting you know doing the right ad strategies. Um so, I guess I'm but I'm also trying to you know conserve cash and then build up a a buffer for the winter just in case. Um you know I'm not I'm not taking any money out of the business or anything like that right now. Everything is reinvested and you know we're either using it for for growth or saving it for a rainy day at this point. So, I do expect that things might uh get a little bit quieter, but I think that I think that you know part of it is just if you build the backlog of jobs going into the winter, then you have plenty of work to get you through the winter. So, that's and I think that that was kind of one of the things that was my issue um you know when I when I came in in in July, the business had been really up for sale and already gone through one due diligence period and they were very close to closing with this prior buyer. And I think that uh you know they they thought it was a done deal. So, when that fell apart and we had to restart over with me and spend another three four months, it was uh you know they weren't going to I mean understandably like you're you're trying to get as much out of the business as you can. Like you're not going to be investing in marketing and investing in things like you would if you were going to keep it for for years to come. So, especially if you really just thought you were getting through everything. So, I I I think there was just a little deferred deferred maintenance there. Yeah. And uh had I closed in earlier in the year, I think it would have been less noticeable. But, the fact that there was another buyer and it fell apart and then and then we had to restart over. Uh I think that that that was definitely a negative. Well, Chris, anything else on um the any basically being in this low uh No, I mean now now things are things are things are going well. I mean the first half of uh 2023 was actually our sales are better than the either of the previous two years. So, we just had a Congratulations. Thank you. Yeah, we just had a mid-year team event where we went to Topgolf and went played some you know laser tag games and things like that and like I gave my speech and I was just telling everybody that uh you know I'm I'm it's it's been I it's been tough. It's been a a lot of work and but it's I really have enjoyed getting to truly meet them and know these folks and uh you know that they're they're doing a hell of a job and uh yeah, we're we're definitely moving in the right direction. I mean there's um I mean there's other competitors out there, but I feel like we're we're a great size. We're we're you know we go up against franchises. There's a there's kind of one big private equity backed company the in the immediate area. But, uh you know I think that we really should be winning against all these people and there's no reason that we can't just uh you know that we that we shouldn't be significantly bigger than we are right now. So, Well, that's um that that's a remarkable trajectory, Chris and such a hopeful one. And you know it kind of has all the elements of um uh a rocky transition, fetal position, or nausea moments where it yeah, I mean that's really scary what you described is especially the sales just kind of falling through the floor and then coming back and feeling like you're um now you're excited about not only like is the worst kind of over, but you're also actually excited about the future. Um I love that. Um the you I think so and one last thing on this and then I I I I'm watching the time, Chris, and we're basically already at time. Do you have a few more minutes? Yep. Sure. Cuz I I cuz I want I have one more question on on just kind of your role and the business itself and then and then I just want to make sure we educate um me and the audience on on the foundation repair business cuz it is one um that you hear about in in the world of search. The you had mentioned I believe to me in our pre-call that maybe another acquisition is in is is something that you'd entertain? Are you feeling that confident? Did I get that right? Yeah, you you did. I I would definitely entertain it. Um at this point you know there's only there's only so much work there's only so much production that you can get done with a given amount of people, right? Like a a crew can only do so much work. So, you can keep adding on crews. It's very hard to find good crawl space people by the way. Like it's extremely hard to find uh cuz it's not just construction. It's it's really kind of niche specialty construction where you have to be under a house for 8 hours a day. And uh finding guys that are that are good and want to do that work and have clean backgrounds and are someone you'd want to send to a customer's house, it's it's really difficult. I mean so uh recruiting is a challenge certainly. So, and then you know geography is also a a bit of a challenge for us too. We cover all of North and South Carolina. So, um I got my general contractor license in both states. So, we do all of both states. So, there's a fair amount of driving and gas and hotel rooms and things like that especially if you're going to the coast or or or if you're going out you know going out west into the mountains. So, I would like to I would like to try and uh acquire hopefully in the not too distant future another another company in the space just to give us a a a little bit more of a geographic reach without having to travel quite so much. I mean something around know Charleston Wilmington area would be fantastic or Raleigh's are Raleigh's our second biggest market after Charlotte. Um when I bought the company that the the sellers did have a small office in Raleigh. But, I went and looked at it and it was it was very very rough and it had not been used in years. They had tried to open a branch there and it didn't go well because of I guess some personnel issues out there and so they just basically closed it up. And I remember I went and look I went out there with my family for the day and we we went into the office and I got a key and I went in and we just looked around and my my daughter who was six at the time looked at me she's like "Daddy, don't buy this company. This is not nice." And I mean there was there was holes in the ceiling where water had come through and an old couch and it was just there was like duct tape holding together the the roll-up door. It was just you know not something that together with duct tape. Literally, yeah. So, I you know I I informed the seller that I was not interested in assuming the lease on that office when we more so just cuz I didn't want to be responsible for whatever whatever was to come of that. But, um you know there's definitely something to having a having an office in another location. So, I'd like to do that. Um that's one I that's one thing and that's probably the most logical step. Um the other the other thing would be you know there's I could try and find complementary businesses that are here locally. So, I've been kicking those ideas around a lot lately now that I've kind of reached the year mark and trying to figure out what what's the next step. But, I do definitely want to do something. And do you feel that you if you looked under the hood at another foundation repair business that given your you know 12 18 months in this business uh and buying this business and diligencing this business um could really like look at a look at an acquisition candidate acquisition target and quickly kind of know if it's a good business and where the holes are. I mean you know it's a world of difference from your first time around. Definitely definitely much better. Yeah, world of difference. Like I had I honestly had no no clue what questions to even ask the first time. I mean you ask kind of these general questions, whatever comes to mind, and you know, you do diligence, and you have a have a question about something, and you ask it, and you get an answer. But like now, I would It would be a completely different experience. That's part of the reason why I feel like it's something I want to do again is because I I feel like now I would be able to figure out pretty quickly as it was uh you know, what was going on with the business. At least to, you know, at least to a much higher level of certainty than I had the first go-around. Great, Chris. Well, uh before I let you go, can we have a bit of a uh uh uh class on the foundation repair business? So, you just said uh a couple minutes ago that it's kind of niche construction. Um so, it's, you know, it's a construction business, but uh very specific type of construction and set of skills. It is a project business. Um so, no recurring revenue. Big job numbers, though. I think you said $10,000 to $15,000 is the average. Right. Yeah. Uh consumer, I mean, these are houses. These are not buildings, generally. Correct me if I'm wrong. So, consumer a little bit of commercial. Yeah, there's a little bit of commercial, but I mean, it's probably 90% residential. Okay. Residential. Uh what what else would you tell people about this industry? It is So, you know, when I when I got into it um or when I first started, like I I thought that it was interesting because it's not going away anytime soon. It's low-tech. I mean, you don't really need you you need some you need machinery, you need, you know, uh excavator, you need a bunch of tools. You need materials, but it's not something that uh Amazon can come in and and beat you to. There's all It's It's always going to be local. There's always going to be a need for it here in in the Carolinas. The the soil is very clay-heavy, and then when you get to the coast, it's very sand-heavy. So, things move a lot. Um they expand and contract during the seasons with the rain and the heat and the cold. So, uh foundations crack, uh wood gets rotten under the house, water comes in, and you need drains and pumps and dehumidifiers and all of that. So, it's it's definitely not going anywhere. And um you know, there there's a there's a company here that's kind of our biggest competitor in the area, and they had been bought by uh private equity company um that was doing a uh private equity-backed roll-up, and then another They got another investment just recently from KKR. And so, I was thinking during due diligence, I was like, "Well, jeez, if these guys can do can do that, like I don't have to do it on the same scale. I could be perfectly happy being much smaller and just doing something kind of in the same vein." So, that was that was inspirational you saw that private equity um interest in the in the space as validating of the space, sort I did, yeah. And I've actually like I I it's more than I thought it was going to be, too. I mean, I when I came in, I thought that uh uh you know, being so project-based, we have a little bit of recurring revenue from maintenance agreements and things like that, but it's really not anything too substantial. Uh I had thought that, you know, that's maybe there's some interest, but I was really shocked. I mean, in the first couple months, I got like 10 or 12 phone calls from private equity companies uh that were interested in talking to me or taking me out to lunch or doing all of this. I was like, "Well, you know, thank you. I just bought the business a couple months ago, so I'm really not looking to uh partner with anybody at this point, but I'll keep you in mind in the future, but You say to them, "Hey, you should have called me when I was about to puke at the picnic table. You caught me at the wrong moment." Right, exactly. So, but, you know, I I mean, but it's it's reassuring, and it's it's flattering that, you know, that to that they would express interest in uh And so, that's that's a good sign, I feel like. That means, you know, I'm in the right kind of industry, but uh Yeah, I mean, it is it it's construction. It's hard, dirty work, and uh And yeah, but it's not going anywhere. And Chris, what about elaborate a little bit? You've already said labor, hard to find people who know how to do this. So, how long does it take to train somebody up in this work? So, most of the people that we hire are are rookies and don't have too much experience. The The guys that we have that are the crew leaders have Most of them have been with the company for a couple years. So, really really fortunate that the crew leaders have all stuck around. Um with the exception of one or two that were doing, you know, that weren't really up to par, and that was a mutual decision. But the guys that are here right now and that we've elevated to crew leader are have all been here for at least, you know, a year and a half plus years. One or One guy's been here 10 or 12 years. Um so, that was really that was great because I, you know, these are the guys that I really have the the the knowledge. Um the hard part is finding I mean, the hard part is I guess it would be hard to find another crew leader because if you need to if you want to expand, you know, like I said, you can only do so much revenue with a fixed amount of people here. There's just No, the human body can only do so much work in a in a week. So, uh that's that's kind of, you know, tough to find uh someone to bring in as a crew leader, and even to find the support people, the rookies that are helping them out. It's it's like it's shocking. Like I used to do recruiting for business analysts and things like that in my old job, and you go through this lengthy interview process, and it was very professional, and and here, you know, you set up an interview, and uh over 50% of the time, people don't even show up for the interview, and they tell you they're going to come. Mhm. And then when they do come, uh a good chunk of those people you don't like, and then out of the people you like, a good chunk of those end up having, you know, undesirable backgrounds, and so you can't hire them. So, you're left I think I've sent out 80 or 90 outreach efforts on Indeed. Um and I got we got one new hire from it. Wow. But but to be clear, they don't actually have to be that skilled initially. No, no, they don't. We train them. Mhm. Yeah, we we definitely we we train them. Really, the hardest thing is is finding someone that's motivated and is going to work hard, and we give them an opportunity to rotate around with the different crew leaders. And what I tell them is is I can give you an opportunity to come in, and I can give you an opportunity to go out with the crew leaders, but it's up to you to impress them and and have one of them pick you up at the end of the day. Cuz if nobody picks you up after you've rotated around with them, uh then you're going to be sweeping the warehouse until Friday, and then you're going home. So, that's that's the way it works. So, I mean, it's it's also kind of a you know, a youngish person's job because it's very physically taxing on your body. So, people that are even, you know, guys that are in their late 30s, anything beyond that, that, you know, their their body hurts. So, one of the things that was really interesting about this coming into this company is like I'm I mean, I I don't consider myself that old. I'm I'm 38, so I guess I'm mid-careerish, but uh I'm one of the older people in this company. There's some people that have uh that have that are in various positions, but like the director of operations is younger than me. The business development's younger than me. Pretty much all of the production guys are younger than me. Uh a lot of the office customer service folks are younger than me. So, like I've gone from this position where uh you know, in my old corporate life, like there was all these guys that had been with the company and were in their 50s and had, you know, climbed the corporate ladder, and they were managing directors. And now here I find myself to be one of the older people in the company, which I find interesting. Yeah, that is that is an interesting dynamic. Uh although probably a a helpful one in those first couple months when you were trying to earn as much respect as quickly as you could. At least you at least you were older than most of them. Yeah, not not by much, but yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um and the So, these are big Oh, how are margins in in the foundation repair business? Your kind of your standard a little bit over 20 if you're doing well, a little bit under 20 if you're not super efficient? yeah, I'd say I'd say around that. I mean, it might be a It might be Yeah, it's a little bit lower. I mean, one of the things with uh you know, I think I I think you've had other guests talk about this, too, but, you know, with interest rates going up a lot, like my interest rate in my SBA loan has gone up so much uh since I acquired the business. Um I had been working with another lender to a like a a big mega bank to try and do an SBA loan, and it was just way too much paperwork, and it was never going to get done on time, but they had a fixed rate. And now I'm like, "Oh, man, maybe I should have stuck with them and got the fixed rate cuz it was one of the only SBA lenders that offered a fixed rate." And my lender was was great. I went with Live Oak, just for the record, and they were fantastic. The guy that I worked with there was really really good. And, you know, was able to get everything to work out, but having a floating interest rate right now kind of sucks. So, there's an extra several thousand dollars every month that, you know, of course, I modeled it that it would go up, but like I didn't It still kind of hurts when you're like, "Oh, I you know, I'm spending an extra seven grand a month on interest that I wasn't a couple months ago." But um yeah, margins I mean, margins are Yeah, like you said, they're, you know, in the the teens to 20-ish, I'd say. And uh one more question just on the business. The getting leads, getting sales. So, if if if you guys are finding yourself going all the way out to the coasts, I mean, and all the way down to South Carolina, I mean, it sounds like and wherever places that sometimes your guys have to spend the night and basically spend the night in a hotel room to serve serve as a customer. That tells me that there's just that there's just a lot more demand than there is supply. If you have to you know, if people are willing to call you from hours away to come service their home. So, is that to say that there's yet like what what what does it look like to get leads? You know, are you and and to make the phone ring? Is it is it all an online game? Is it basically all like you you referred to SEO earlier? Just give us a picture of marketing. Yeah, so right now, I mean most everything that we're doing is online. It's paperclick and SEO and and you know, we hired I hired somebody to do our social media. So, we have a little bit of a more professional Instagram and Facebook than ever was in the past. But yeah, really that's what we're doing now. The the company previously had done TV commercials. Um I got pretty close to doing TV commercials and I backed out at the last minute just because I don't know. Like I don't I don't consume very much TV at all. Like I if I watch a half an hour of Hulu with my wife before going to sleep, like that's that's about the maximum amount of TV we get in a day. So, I was like I don't know. I don't know if I want to spend this kind of money, you know, that it can be 8 10 plus thousand dollars a month to to run TV ads. So, Yeah. um I I think we will get to that and maybe we'll get to doing billboards and doing other things to just drive brand awareness, but it's been mostly online and mostly just focusing on you know, trying to do good good customer service really. I mean getting trying to get good reviews on Google, sharing those on social media, sharing those on our website, getting I mean referral sources. We get more more business from you know, realtors and and home inspectors and things like that than than really anything else probably. That's probably about evenly tied with with Google. Ah. So, Well, it sounds like you you doubled down on that. You that you hired this BD person to cultivate those relationships, the referral the referral network. Well, it seems like the kind of business this may be naive or wrong that brand awareness might be less important. I.E. marketing on television or billboards because how often does somebody really need you know, structural work or foundation repair done? Not very. Um and and so it's kind of like something that somebody would Google and just kind of like look at the top two or three and whoever got the best Google reviews, they put in a couple calls, best price, who calls them back sort of thing as opposed to seeing a billboard, you know, and remembering a name. Um actually, but on that and on that point, I guess we should define it a little better. What we do is what the way we describe is everything from the subfloor down. So, these are typically not These are problems that have usually been going on for a long time that people Okay. maybe have probably known about and they've just been putting it off. Or you know, part of the reason that realtors are a good referral source is because during the real estate transaction, there's a home inspection and then the home inspector will call out certain things. Um and you know, then then they say, "Oh, you should consult a licensed contractor that specializes in you know, this type of foundation repair." And so, that's we get a lot of calls around that. Um Got you. But yeah, it's I mean it's replacing wood under the house that's rotting or has termite damage. It's adding you know, building piers to support to support the home, drains to divert water away to keep the foundation dry. We do encapsulations with you know, dehumidifiers where they're sealing off the crawl space. So, it's it's all of that. I mean it's stuff that you could definitely you can put it off for a while, but it's one of those things that you you really shouldn't put off for too much longer than than uh than recommended because you know, it is it does you know, it it's only going to get worse. Like if you have rotting wood under your house, like eventually your floors will start sagging. Um a lot of things that we get is we get calls from customers saying, "Oh, why does my door stick? Or why can't this this window doesn't open? Or I see a little hairline cracks around the the frame of the window in the house or there's a soft spot in my floor." Those types of things are kind of the the leading indicators usually that that get somebody to call us and then we send a consultant out there and do a free inspection and then let them know what they're looking at. So, Mhm. Mhm. But But yeah, that was I mean that was my your your your your notion of like that somebody just Googles it and looks at the first two or three, like that's exactly what I thought too when I was coming into buying the business. I was like brand recognition is probably not that important. It's just a matter of ranking well on Google when they Google you and then providing good customer service and you can probably get a decent market share if you just execute really well on those two things. Well, Chris, anything I failed to ask you or that we didn't touch on? I I feel like we've covered a lot, but what did I miss? No, I I mean I think that's I think that's the the whole story for the most part. It's been It's been a definitely an interesting ride here for the last year and uh you know, my my wife has asked me at many times during the last year like, "Oh, so do you do you regret it?" And I've always said, "No, I don't regret it." And that's you know, mostly been true. Uh I don't regret it. It's been It's been hard at certain points, but I really feel like uh you know, there's certain days when everything's clicking and and everything's going well and you just it like nothing could be better because it's it's your business at the end of the day. It's not uh you're not in someone else's business where you're you know, but spending your time and your energy and your effort to to get them you know, success. Like it really it's it's such a great feeling cuz like when when every when the days when things work, it really feels really good. And then you know, you get obviously the flip side of that, but that's just uh that's how it goes. But I think you know, over the last 6 months I've really been having a lot more good days than bad days and I I feel like I made the right decision. So, I'm I'm so pleased, Chris. And and that that sense of ownership um is what entrepreneurship is in large part about. And And do you feel like this business is yours now after you what you went through? I do. Yeah, I mean there's still there's still certain things around. I mean the office still looks pretty much the same as when I came in and there's certain things that I do want to when I get to you know, try and personalize it and make it a little bit different, but uh yeah, I really I really do feel that way now. I feel like it's uh I mean it's it's in I'm in a place now where I've got a good relationship with everybody that's here. I feel like the people that are here want to be here. I've got the right people in the right seats and you know, that's what I tell people is like that's how I view I view my job as making sure that we have the right people in the right seats and that there's enough leads coming in the door to keep our sales people busy, which will in turn keep our production crews busy. So, like those are I think I look at that is those are my two primary functions. So, That's a great distillation. If people want to get in touch with you, Chris, what what what's the best way? Um they can I'm on I'm on LinkedIn. Uh they can they can reach out to me on LinkedIn or my they're they're welcome to send me a email. My email is Christopher Jones, the number seven at gmail. So, happy to uh happy to chat. Chris, thanks so much for coming on and sharing this roller coaster of a story. Uh congratulations for you know, getting through those those rough patches and and feeling you know, being where you are now and and things are looking pretty rosy. Knock on wood. Yeah. No, it's all the roller coaster never completely ceases in small business, but let let's enjoy the the feeling of potential while we have it. Yeah. I I am definitely enjoying it. Yeah, thank you very much for having me on, Will. I like I said, I've been I've been listening to you. I have a 30-minute drive in the morning and in the afternoon and I I listen to you every time a new episode comes out. So, it's a it's an honor to be on the show and you know, uh you've had some illustrious guests. So, hope this episode's okay. Among them now, one one Chris Jones. So, Good deal. Thank you for saying that, Chris. I appreciate it. Thanks, Will. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Make sure you subscribe to the Acquiring Minds channel below. We are now publishing twice a week. So, tons of new interviews and stories to come. Stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business.