The main thing is to protect these characters, make sure that they still continue to to live in the way that you created them. We don't have source material. We don't have 800page books that we're adapting. >> And obviously, we have hundreds of books and comics and everything you could possibly imagine. >> We don't even really have comic books. We have a mythology. >> I have story treatments of 7, 8, and 9 and a bunch of other movies. George Lucas never wrote a script for seven, eight or nine. Um, and the ideas that I think you're referencing are ideas that he had for other possible movies, >> you know, and I had the story treatments or, you know, outlines and um and we were about to we were working on scripts. Since I didn't use my stories, I'm going to I have no idea what they're doing. Oh boy, we have finally arrived after all the many years Star Wars doesn't have any source material. What the >> all of the bad decisions? I mean, we're we're going back to the signing of Lucasfilm. You know, originally when George signed Lucasfilm off to Disney to Bob Iger, he appointed Kathy as the president of Lucasfilm, pretty much like days before he went to sign and Bob was thrown off by it. And he writes this in his book. He was like, "Huh, okay." And George appointed Kathy right before he signed as the president of Lucasfilm because he trusted her to take care of his characters and his story. And while I wish Kathy the best on her next adventure as a human being, as a beloved fan of Star Wars and how it's changed my life, far beyond this channel, since I was a wee lad, there is no one better in history than Kathleen Kennedy to have strayed this brand further from what George would have wanted. The Disney division will be run by chief creative officer Dave Fona and on the business side Linwin Brennan. Kennedy has been getting them ready for a couple of years as she plotted a return to her first love producing. The expansion also included five animated series, the Disneyland and Disney World attraction, Star Wars Galaxy's Edge, and the evolution of Lucasfilm games, the downgrade of Lucas Arts, which had this many games compared to this many games. Kennedy has been discussing the succession plan for 2 years with Disney's Bob Iger and Alan Bergman. Here she explains to Deadline why now and what's ahead for her. Two years ago, I went to Bob and Allan to figure out what the transition plan would be, and I made the recommendation that it be Dave Fona and Linwen Brennan. Dave is the perfect person to transition, but he hadn't made a movie, and I worked very closely with him, beginning with Rogue One to get him a feel of how live action works. His background is animation, as he worked with George on Clone Wars. He's very talented and immersed in Star Wars. He and Pablo Hidalgo are like the walking encyclopedias inside the company. Which, mind you, Pablo before Kathleen was hired did not have his position. Once she got hired, she just promoted the heck out of him. They always have the answer when you ask, "Hey, can I do this with the lights?" Yeah, kind of like when the High Republic when they approved a lightsaber to to slow down a Jedi when they were stabbing it into a cliff. Or what colors were the sabers? Or like in the Acolyte, should this character even be alive? So a young Kiatti Mundi stepped in. A young so young we had we had to make his birth date 40 years earlier cuz he was that young >> or anything else you need to know with what has come before like source material. >> We don't have source material. >> Oh, here's a good one. What have been the highs and lows of running a company built on such beloved IP? She's never going to talk about the actual elephant in the room. She's just going to ignore it as she always does and talk about how amazing and great it's been. The highs include realizing how many people love Star Wars. That's one way to put it. The majority of people and certainly the people that I run into and people outside the business, they love Star Wars. They love the movies. They might love all the shows. They might love some of the shows. But when I came into this, I realized a few things. We had walked in at a moment when there hadn't been any movies for 10 years or more. But there was still the memory of the greatest series of movies in cinema history. So you're walking into something that has enormous expectations. Yet at the same time, you know that you've got to find new characters and you have to expand the galaxy. And you need to think about who the new audience is. Wow. So wrong. That's what I feel that I did and that's what I feel all the people that I've worked with over the last decade did. The highs include bringing in a new audience. I think we did find new characters. we continue to find new characters and those characters continue to try and find themselves because the directors and writers don't even know. So, I mean, how would they how would the the actors didn't even know until the last minute? And this right here, ladies and gentlemen, is exactly why Star Wars failed under Kathleen Kennedy. So, she recognizes that George Lucas created something timeless and something extremely popular and beloved. Yet at the same time, she felt that you have to find new characters and you have to expand the galaxy and you need to think about who the new audience is. >> That was a bad mistake. >> When George was making Star Wars, he didn't try to think of any of that. He didn't try to think of who is the new audience, who will like this. He was just telling a story. And when you tell a good story, the audience finds you, not the other way around. When you chase the money, the money runs away. When you focus on passion, the money finds you. The audience finds you. The customers find you. That's what you failed to understand and we all paid for it. The highs include bringing in a new audience. It's not to continue the story and the legacy that George Lucas created. But it's to find a new audience. And a new audience they did find someone who won't even support the very things that they supposedly love so much and stand by. Like the acolyte for example, which cost $250 million. >> Oh yes, >> I think we did find new characters. Yeah, you found them, but you never fleshed them out. You never told them properly, and you never made us feel an ounce of the emotion and connection that George made us feel with the characters that he wrote, he put on screen, that he directed. We continue to find new characters. I think you should stop doing that. I think all the characters are already out there that George created and you just need to add on those and then close their book respectfully and you didn't do that with Luke and that's why so many people have a problem with Star Wars. So many people have a problem with you but I guess we're all just sexist racists. >> I don't believe that and you're sounding like a separatist. >> The lows ooh going for it. The lows are that you've got a very very small percentage of the fan base that has enormous expectations and basically they want to continue to see pretty much the same thing. The level of just incapable of being self-aware. This is the most telling and closing chapter on her tenure at Lucasfilm and I'm going to dismantle it. Do you guys see how she is calling us very very small percentage of the fan base? Is it a very small percentage of the fan base that didn't watch the acolyte? Yeah. So which small percentage are you talking about? >> It does not exist. >> We have enormous expectations and basically dumbed down. We just want to see pretty much the same thing. No, dear Kathleen. We just want to see a continuation of the stories and the characters that we love. We want to see a continuation of the characters we grew up with, the characters that we looked towards for hope and courage and strength. The characters that you bastardized, the characters that you destroyed, the lack of respect that you gave to George Lucas after you told him to his face and to the world that the only thing you care about is respecting these stories. >> The main thing is to protect these characters. Make sure that they still continue to to live in the way that you created them. And if you're not going to do that, then you know going in that you're going to disappoint them. It's incredible. You disappointed us because you said that there was no source material. You said that we don't have books and comics and games. Boy, were you wrong. You disappointed us when you started to call us sexist and racist. And that's not to ignore the fact that those people exist. Of course they exist. Those people exist everywhere. But when you call the very very small percentage of the fan base that has enormous expectations and basically is just dumb and wants the same old thing over and over again, you're kind of just showing your true colors. And in fact, from Bob Iger's book, the reason George had such a hard time watching the Force Awakens, and I quote, he said, "They just want to do the same thing." And that's because you guys literally did the same thing. You just repeated elements of the original trilogy sprinkled all throughout The Force Awakens. You added the same sort of climate of planets. You brought these evolved beloved characters, Han Solo, Leia, and Luke, and you degraded them. You took them back to well before we even met them. Luke was disillusioned and didn't believe in himself in episode 4. That's the same place you put him in in an episode 5 when he should have been transcended beyond. Han Solo was a smuggler that really only cared about himself, turned into a hero, a war hero, a general, a fighter, a lover. when he was going around, you know, just sleeping with whoever, he became devoted and fell in love with Leia. But you regressed him. You split them up. The father figure is no more. He failed. He's now back to being a dead beat. And then you killed him off. >> Who are you? >> George had the sequel trilogy treatment. I've made videos about it. It's documented, well documented. There's proof of it, of his interaction, his interview with Paul Duncan. There's literature about it. And yet, you chose not to use it. And Bob Iger even said that he found it weird that George Lucas was expecting him to use the sequel trilogy treatment that he gave them that he sold to them that Disney purchased from him just to lock away so that nobody can ever get to it again. I'm not sure there's anything you can do about that. Just tell good stories because you can't please everybody. No, you you can't. That's true. All you can do is try to tell good stories and try to stick to the essence of >> Hell no, man. What the >> So, if you're trying to stick to the essence of what George created, but you're you're complaining that all people want is to see pretty much the same thing, yet you go and you literally just recreate the same old crap in The Force Awakens, which is exactly what George Lucas said, then what point are you really trying to make? Cuz it just kind of seems like you're dillydallying and you don't really know what stance you have. liar. >> He embedded incredible values into Star Wars and what it has to say. Okay. What are those values, Kathleen? I mean, since there's so much source material, what are those values? What of those values did you present into your movies of Star Wars, into your version of Star Wars when you decided to blatantly go against what he wanted to do, what he wanted his story to be, and you wanted to do your own thing, which George has said many times. the ones that I sold to Disney and everything, they came up to the decision that they didn't really want to do those, so they made up their own. >> George Lucas never wrote a script for seven, eight, or nine. >> So, it's not one of your >> It's not the ones that I originally wrote. The whole idea of hope and fun and entertainment and what he's done over all the years. That's what I tried to preserve. Well, you failed. And I wouldn't do that any differently. and I wouldn't change anything that we've done over the years. While I'm happy you're stepping down cuz you don't understand. I understand why some people may like certain things more than others. You mean like good storytelling, for example? But that's not going to change why I decided to do certain things and why I decided to work with the people that we worked with. Okay. Well, since you're on the topic, why did you decide to do that? Because you divided an entire fan base. You destroyed a legacy. And now Dave Filona has to do his best to pick up the pieces and use Kinuki to put it back together. Hopefully he's still on our side and he hasn't been twisted by the Dark Lord. >> I feel the good in you. The conflict. >> There is no conflict. >> I think everybody that came into Star Wars space, they love Star Wars. And that was the first and foremost important. You want to have people coming into Star Wars and wanting to tell stories and wanting to make movies and wanting to create television shows that you respect and care about. John Favro is completely different than Tony Gilroy. And yet they're both incredibly talented storytellers. Is that why you gave Tony Gilroy about $800 million for his projects, yet everything else that John Favro did got maybe a fraction of that. I found it thrilling to support each one of them in trying to tell the stories they wanted to tell. Well, I heard that you were making too many executive decisions with The Mandalorian, and that's why Mando season 3 was totally different from Mando season 1 and two. But hey, what do I know? I just hear things. That's what I want to do well, and that's what I like to do and want to continue to do. And hopefully that took Star Wars into the next step. We'll see in the long run, but it feels like I did. I feel like we expanded the universe. Hey, you stretched it thin. We brought new audiences in. You sure did. and you lost the old ones, the loyal ones, the ones that actually bought and purchased things. But especially with something like Star Wars where George just created something that became a part of everyone's childhood. And why was that, Kathy? You ask yourself this, why did it do so well? Every single filmmaker that walks in and wants to work on Star Wars, the first thing they say to me, the first thing I hear is, "Let me tell you about when I went to see Star Wars for the first time with my dad." Hm. If every single one of those people told you that, then wouldn't you want to continue that legacy instead of focusing on finding a new audience? Instead, you would want to focus on the audience you already have instead of alienating them by completely changing script. Back when J.J. Abrams started the third cycle of Star Wars films, I asked a lot of filmmakers how that very first film affected them. My favorite recreation came from Ridley Scott. When I interviewed him for the film The Martian, he looked at me hard and goes, "Well, this is what happened." and he told this great story about being with David Putnham and they were working on Tristan and I sold as his next film and took a break to see this movie everyone was talking about. Ridley found himself getting more and more pissed while he was watching it. Not because he didn't like George or his movies, but because he didn't think of it first. As he exited the theater with Putnham, he turned to the producer and said, "I think I'm not going to be able to do this movie with you. I've got to go to space." That led him to Alien. You always hear how Bruce Springsteen or other musicians watched Elvis Presley or the Beatles in those early days of television and knew what they wanted to do with their lives. George did a version of that with his first trilogy. How did it change you? Wow. I didn't know this interview was going to be this uh this crazy bro. All right. Kathleen says, "I didn't realize that about Ridley." That's fantastic. So many of us can talk about the moment that they saw Star Wars. It changed so many people in the movie business and the way you thought about what you wanted to do because of what we were just talking about. The new tools and innovation and how we tell stories and how you create imagery. He created a world in a way that 10 years before you couldn't have done and everyone was blown away by seeing something. Uh so she just completely danced around the question. George did a version of that with his first trilogy. How did it change you? I guess she was talking about the technology of it. Cougler went into the genre sandbox and turned it completely on its ear and made it relevant to everyone as they thought about their own tribal roots and origin stories. I don't think I'd ever seen that in a movie quite like he did it. I imagine you'd give your eye teeth to have a guy I've never heard that. You'd give your eye teeth to have a guy like that where he could make a mark in the Star Wars universe. Oh, trust me, Mike. This is big. This is a big part of what I've tried to do. sit with the people that I would love to see step inside this space and create something that we've never seen before. But Star Wars isn't really Ryan's thing. The trickiest thing is to find a filmmaker and say you can step into this space and you can still be you. Uh, no. You got to step in the space and try and be as close to George as you possibly can. It's still going to be you regardless cuz you're not George and you got your own way of shooting and doing things, but you still have to think along those lines. It's like you have a famous recipe and then all of a sudden you come in, oh, we want to cater to a new audience. You just completely change the recipe. It's no longer the same famous recipe. It's something totally different. And then you wonder why people didn't like it. Well, that was your market, man. That was your freaking audience. By the time we were talking about Andor, he found a way in because he realized there was something important he had to say and he could do it inside Star Wars and that started to become very exciting for him. It's thrilling to try and find that. I've had eerly conversations with David Fincher, with Vince Gilligan for TV. I have sat down with Alex Garland and others where the minute you say their name, you go, "Oh, that might be an interesting Star Wars." But not everybody is just to go, "Oh, yeah, great. I'm going to drop everything and spend the next 3 to 5 years trying to figure this out." That's the other thing to consider. These are really complicated, difficult movies to make, far more than I think people give them credit for. People have to set their lives aside for years. Whoa. People have to work and get paid tens of millions to create Star Wars. How many years on average? 3 to five from the time that you start developing. And then what's involved is concept work and creation. That's uh sounds like a really tough job, man. Let's get what the fans are eager to know. the progress on films and series by filmmakers who've committed to putting in that three to five years. Ryan Johnson, James Mangled, Simon Kinberg, Taika Whiteiti, where are all their projects at? This dude's uh asking the hard-hitting questions. I wouldn't be surprised if Kathleen Kennedy or her team had him ask these questions so that they could be addressed by her one last time. I've got to tread a bit carefully here. Jim Mangled and Bo Williamman wrote an incredible script, but it is definitely breaking the mold and it's on hold. Taika has turned in a script that I think is hilarious and great. It's not just my decision, especially when I've got a foot out the door. Donald Glover has turned in a script, and as you have read, Steve Solderber and Adam Driver turned in a script written by Scott Burns. It was just great. Anything's a possibility if somebody's willing to take a risk. I remember when I came into this job, the first thing Bob Iger said to me was, "Be bold." I've always liked that because I think you have to be bold and you have to be willing to take risks with people and with ideas. >> They fly now. >> Otherwise, you are just doing the same thing. Right now, we're in an era where companies are so riskaverse. And I get it. I hear all the conversations. They've got Wall Street to please, and I get it. But I also believe that's what contributes to things disappearing ultimately. Holy It's like she's self-aware but not aware. I just think you have to take those chances. Everything I just reeled off to you is taking a bit of a chance because none of those filmmakers are just walking in trying to do same old same old. Dude, what is with like she thinks if you tell Star Wars the way George would have wanted it, then you're doing the same old. We're not going and remaking the films. Kathy, we got to go in and continue the story. That's not telling the same old just cuz it's using the characters that we want to see more of. That's telling a new story with characters that did the grunt work and we went through the time of learning their grunt work. Luke in episode 4, 5, 6. Okay, great. Now he's ready. Now he's a Jedi Knight and we can see as he transcends into a Jedi Master, what's he going to be like? What's the galaxy looking like? No, we didn't get that because apparently it's the same old. So what you have like ah man it's uh the lack of self-awareness is strong with this one. What about Ryan Johnson returning after Star Wars episode 8 and The Last Jedi grossed 1.3 billion globally. We expected him to return. The Last Jedi gross so much because you guys left Luke Skywalker on a cliffhanger literally after we wanted to see him for 30 to 40 years. Once he made the Netflix deal and went off doing the Knives Out films that has occupied a huge amount of his time. That's the other thing that happens here after Shawn and I started discussing Star Wars Stranger Things kicks in and he was completely consumed for a while by that. That's what happened with Ryan. And then I do believe he got spooked by online negativity. There's no there's no self-awareness from these people. It's so weird, man. It's like she doesn't even watch what George says about these things. He's a brilliant filmmaker and he got spooked. This is the rough part. When people come into this space, I have every filmmaker and actor say to me, "What's going to happen?" They're a little scared. They don't have to be scared. If you just make it good. It's that simple. If you just respect what George created, you respect the characters, and you respect the fandom. It's so freaking simple, man. That's all. You've developed a thicker skin. No doubt. You a thicker skin only goes handinhand with being self-aware. You have to be self-aware, especially when you're in the limelight or whatever. You have to be self-aware. can't just think, "Oh yeah, my don't stink." It does. And you got to know, okay, what can I do to be a better person going forwards? And what can I do to make a better product? Everyone has faults and everyone has pros, but at the end of the day, you got to know the difference between the two and what you can improve on because we can all improve. Everybody can improve. You can't have been used to all the criticism when you were producing all these movies with Frank Marshall for Steven Spielberg. What do you say to ease the apprehension of these newcomers to the Star Wars universe? Well, you don't got to worry about Dave. He's been in this game since way before you. Every time you release another movie or series, it's like fire in the hole. Well, yeah. Just make it be good. I'm honest. Especially with the women that come into this spa. Ah, here we go again. Even with the women that come into this space because they get unfairly targeted. I think everyone gets equally fairly targeted. I think if you say stupid inflammatory things to the fan base, you will get targeted whether you are a man or woman or an inanimate object. I don't try to sugarcoat it and I emphasize that it's a very small group of people with loud megaphones. hell. It's always a small group of people. I truly do not believe that it's the majority of the fans. No, of course not. And I think we are also in this weird world of where bots can affect things. Bots. Well, if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there? >> But you're talking about fans who have megaphones. So fans who have an audience, like me, for example, and many others. Social media. And yet you're sitting at one of the most powerful seats in all of media world as the president of Lucasfilm. And you're going to talk to us about bots, huh? At least we know that bots exist now. You have to develop tough skin. That is exactly right. That's what you have to do. You can't make it go away. Well, you kind of can if you just tell good stories, respect the fan base, and don't try and single anyone out. Pretty easy, really. Even then, not everyone's going to like you, and even then, you're you're going to have psychopaths. I mean, that's part of being on the internet. That's part of being a public figure. But that's not the majority. All we can do is put our heads down and do the work and believe that we're doing the best we can, telling the best story we can. And if somebody gets really nervous about it and doesn't want to do it, I say then don't do it because I can't tell you this won't happen. It's okay to up. And you know, it's it's even with The Last Jedi, if she had just come out and said, I thought I was trying to do something different. I didn't want to do something that was just the same old thing and I may have gone too far and I'm sorry if that didn't resonate with a lot of Star Wars fans, but it also tells a story that I thought would have been interesting. Maybe I missed the mark for some and for those who really enjoyed it. I'm with you. I mean, even that goes a long way. But then to to wear the forces female shirt to, you know, berate fans and say, "Oh, it you know they're sexist and they're racist." And absolutely there are weirdos, man. I deal with that every day of my life for the last 10 years. Psychopaths. And I can only imagine what, you know, people more in the limelight feel or get or receive. But that's not the majority. Those are the small small small group of people with megaphones. Not the fans that just want to see good stories. Not the the father and the daughter that come up to me at the booth all the time and they'll they'll say essentially they'll all have kind of the same story. Well, what's happening with Star Wars? And it's like it's like I have the answer. It's like, well, no, Kathy has the answer. Clearly, she doesn't. Are there any Star Wars films or spin-offs the fan base will never forgive me for overlooking? We've talked about this new trilogy and then the things that you've mentioned Mangled is really on the back burner as a solder. I think the ones by Taika and Donald are still somewhat alive. I think somewhat alive. You're the president. What is What do you mean I think it's somewhat alive? She was alive. I felt it. >> She was alive. I felt it. >> It seems in your anger. You killed her. >> No. >> That's going to be really up to the new team to figure out. Okay. So, it's Dave. If Dave wants to be like, "Nah, we're not doing this." Great. We're not doing it. Dave, clean house, dude. Come on. Now's the time. You are in command. Dave, I know that Dave and Lynwin are very much on board with that what Simon's doing. And that would be a new trilogy in the timeline of things. That makes you well into 2030 plus. So that's really what's up next. How long is this bro? Sounds like your challenge won't be keeping busy, but managing the fact you're an infinite resource. George Lucas has certainly found new purpose with the Museum of Native Art. Frank and I just had dinner with George weeks ago, and when he came over to London, he's so engaged. When George asked me to do this job, I felt an incredible responsibility to him more than ever. Star Wars. And I re and I feel really gratified that he's happy with where things are. Is he? Roll the clip. >> I sold them to the white slavers that take these things and and uh since I didn't use my stories, I'm going to I have no idea what they're doing. >> And I think he felt relieved that he sold the company and that we've cared so much about being the guardians, the caretakers of it. building this museum which is really representative of his legacy has just put him in a really good place. He settled in realizing what he accomplished and what he contributed to the film industry has been recognized in such an amazing way and always will be. Yeah. Oh my gosh. There's so much scrutiny on all things Star Wars and Indiana Jones. They seem to really recognize that there is a lot of talk and backlash and rhetoric around Star Wars. But my comment is they should be focused on why there is so much rhetoric and and that half-ass answer that she gave that it's just a small small group of the fan base who basically just wants to see the same old thing. What? There's so much scrutiny in all things Star Wars and Indiana Jones. Some work better than others, but they all seem to gross big numbers. Is there any you wish you had back and maybe you could have done better with more time? Or that you let go? She's going to say no. or that you let go something you'd love to have seen to get major. Yeah. No, I don't really have any regrets. Of course not. Well, maybe a bit of regret about Solo: A Star Wars Story. I brought Larry Casden on. And we were so excited about the idea. And when you're into something and you realize fundamentally, conceptually, you cannot replace Han Solo, at least right now. As as wonderful as Alden Aaron Reich was, and he really was good and is a wonderful actor, we put him in a impossible situation. And once you're in it, and once you're committed, you've got to carry on. I think I have a bit of regret about that but not about movie making and film making. Bro, she originally I remember I made a video about this like 2017 or 2018. She talked about how Solo bombed because there were too many Star Wars projects coming out and then she talked about how recently she talked about solo bombs because we didn't have deep fake technology because you can't replace Harrison Ford. What? >> Let's look at the comments. Too late. The damage has been done. She was an absolute disaster for the franchise. Fona won't be better. Colossal failure. She should have taken the page out of Figi's Infinity Saga on day one. Tony Gilroy was not in charge of piloting the ship that is everything Star Wars. I mean, seriously, who goes into a trilogy without a plan? Imagine if Tolken had done that. And yes, this could have been up there with Lord of the Rings had a true creative force who understood the magic had been at the helm. There was a lot we unpacked from this video here. And I just want to say, you know, I wish Kathleen Kennedy the best in her life. And I just wish that we get great Star Wars because at the end of the day, wishing someone ill will or whatever is just not the Jedi way. And it's not going to get us better Star Wars. I'm happy that she's stepping away from it. I'm happy she's going to focus on something that she's more passionate about or wants to pursue going forwards. And I just hope that we get better Star Wars stories that truly respect George Lucas and the fandom as a whole. And first and foremost, just tell a story. They just tell a good story. There's no race card, gender card. There's no none of this It's just good storytelling. Now, whether it's a person of color or it's a female or it's a male or it's what whatever it is, as long as it is a good story that has character progression, hero's journey, trials and tribulations, and an overarching fundamentally interesting plot. Great. Sign me up. And it's got the force and lightsabers. Cool. You got Star Wars, baby. And to that I say, on to better Star Wars movies. This has finally happened. This is a new era. And I wish us all the best. And may the force be with us always. >> Now fulfill your destiny.