Hello and welcome to Bullion Star. I'm Claudia Merkurt and today we have a truly special guest, one of the world's most respected investors and global thinkers, Mr. Jim Rogers. Jim has spent decades exploring markets, commodities, and many countries firsthand. Jim, it's a real pleasure to welcome you to the Bullion Star channel, and we're delighted to have you here with us. >> Gloria, it's my honor, and I'm flattered to be here. I like precious metals. I like Australia and I like you. Now, >> Jim, thank you. Um, Jim, I'm sure that many of our viewers already know that you live here in Singapore where where Bullion's head office is located. And you might have uh seen photos of you. They might have seen photos of you visiting our store on social media. It's always such an honor when you drop by and our team is always thrilled to serve you. So last month was a historic an historic month for Bullion Star as it was our biggest month in history with 144 million Singapore dollars in revenue and our October is going to be even stronger by the looks of it with demand for physical medals coming from all over the world. Tuesday this week, which was the 21st of October, was our busiest day in history. And even with the dip in the price of gold and silver yesterday, we were as busy as ever, with many seeing an opportunity to buy the dip. Jim, I'm wondering, have you been in town recently and seen the cues of hundreds of people lining up for hours to get their hands on physical gold and silver at our store? >> Actually, I've been traveling in Europe. I just got back last night, so I'm barely awake. The answer is no. I have not been to not seen the cues at your shop. I'm sure they're there. But normally, Claudia, you probably know. Just speaking of markets, that's usually a worrisome sign when things are great. Uh I mean, everybody likes things to be great, but when everything is really great, I have learned to start asking questions because if things are too great, they can usually only get worse. I don't like it when everybody else is doing something because usually it's a sign to time to be worried. I'm not selling. Do not worry. I'm not selling. And if they go down, I will buy more, but I'm not buying today. >> Got it. Well, we always do love having you in our store. So, please come again and visit us soon. Before we take a deeper dive into discussing precious metals, I'd like to start to to talk to you about Asia. In the book that you wrote in 2007 titled A Bull in China, you said the following quote. You said, "If you were smart in 1807, you moved to London. If you were smart in 1907, you moved to New York. And if you're smart in 2007, you moved to Asia." Now, clearly, you truly believed that because you've chosen to make Singapore your home for quite a while now. And I'm wondering what first drew you to Singapore over other Asian countries and what keeps you um here? Well, Claudia, I'm I'm not terribly smart, but I am smart enough to know that the 21st century will be the century of Asia, whether we like it or not. China's on the rise again. Many Asian countries are on the rise again. If you consider Australia Asian, it's on the rise, too. I hope that it all continues. Both of my children speak perfect Mandarin, fluent Mandarin, like like natives. I'm I hope that I'm preparing them for the 21st century. You can ask me in 50 years and then we'll know. I'll see you in the outback and buy you a beer in 50 years and we can see who was right. >> And Jim, what specifically about Singapore is that that attracted you to want to move to say over any other place, for example, Hong Kong or or any other big city in Asia? Well, >> I was going to try China because of what I just said, but I don't speak Mandarin. Uh, and when my wife and I were trying it out in Asia, I said, "Why don't we try Singapore once and we came down and Singapore is great. Everything works in Singapore. New York is very exciting, but nothing works. It's hard to live there as exciting as it is." And they speak English and they speak Mandarin. Lee Kuanu, who was the guy running Singapore at the time, told me, "Jim, we're glad to have you here, but you must understand that in Singapore, we speak bad English and bad Chinese." I now know he was right, but it's a very easy place to live. >> That's wonderful. And and what about day-to-day life? What do you how do you find, you know, the safety and and and other aspects of day-to-day life? Or what do you enjoy the most about living in Singapore? >> Well, Singapore is extraordinarily safe. There's no question about that. If you have a problem, you can solve it very quickly in Singapore. It's not like many other places. It's efficient. It's very prosperous. And anything I want, I can find in Singapore. Good food, good restaurants, good everything, entertainment, all the rest of it. And so, we're happy in Singapore. We've been here several years now. We thought we would come here so our children would speak Chinese. The children have grown up and gone away. We're still here. >> That's fantastic. Now, um, have you found over your time there that you feel like people in Asia and maybe particularly in Singapore have an affinity for precious metals that people in Western countries just don't have? >> You you know better than I do. People all over the world have an affinity for precious metals, especially in bad times. You can go back throughout history. I remember Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was sold for 30 pieces of silver because silver was extremely valuable even two or three thousand years ago. It always has been. Well, I don't know if they like or understand it more than westerners do. In my experience, people all over the world for many years at least in my lifetime have understood gold and silver. I don't know if you go to China, you look back in history, the Chinese have always like gold and silver, but that's true of most Asian countries. It's true of most countries around the world. Cody, I don't know. You're the expert. You tell me what's wrong with all of us that we all like gold and silver. And I anyway certainly want more. >> Now, Jim, Singapore's become somewhat of a precious metals uh hub in the world. It's become a bullion hub and it's now often referred to as the Switzerland of the east. At Bullion Star, we're seeing more family offices and wealth management firms moving here. Um, and why do you think Singapore in particular is emerging, you know, as a world-class leader and a global center for wealth and precious metals in this era? >> Well, all of my life I've said to people, you should teach your children and grandchildren Chinese. Then I had one. And so when we were teaching her Chinese, but she came home from the park one day in New York cried because everybody spoke Spanish and they laughed at her cuz she spoke Chinese. So I realized if we were serious, we had to move to a city where she had to speak Chinese. We tried the Chinese cities. Uh we tried Singapore, too. We're very happy in Singapore. It's part of Asia. It's not quite like living in Shanghai or something, but it's very, very easy place to live. And they do speak Mandarin. Bad Mandarin, but at least they speak Mandarin. >> And so, do you see it as your um your home for the foreseeable future now in Singapore? >> Well, my children have gone off to school and I'm still here, so I guess so. >> Yeah. No, I I would agree. I I really love Singapore. Let's talk about precious metals now, Jim. And and gold. Gold has had an incredible run of of close to 67% this year since January until last week at its peak when it got close to to $4,400. What What were you thinking as you've watched this this incredible uh increase in price play out this year? >> Well, I obviously wished I had more. You know, when something making all-time highs and going straight up, you never have enough. Been as 30 years. >> Wow. Okay. Were you concerned at all by the the sharp pullback we've seen in the last couple of days? Um today we're we're back at um $4,090. And uh do you think that that's a buying opportunity or do you just think that's a temporary blip before we keep going up? >> Well, I I didn't buy, I guess, cuz I'm lazy. My way of approaching gold and silver is I like it when there's despair. When you read the press or you on TV and you see everybody say, "It's too late for gold and silver." When there's pessimism and despair, then I get interested. So, if you can get everybody really, really, really pessimistic, then I'll be interested in buying more. M well look I don't know if that time is coming any anytime soon Jim because a few weeks ago uh Morgan Stanley has just officially adjusted its model portfolio from 6040 stocks and bonds to 60 2020 adding 20% gold and cutting their bond exposure and and their CIO Mike Wilson said gold now offers better resilience and inflation protection than long bonds. So what what do you make of that move? Have they come late to the gold party? I hope it's uh not too late to figure out that gold and silver have always been good inflation hedges throughout history. And good, I'm delighted. The more the marrier. There is a problem, of course. Whenever markets get too hot, they have to cool off. Now, if there's hysteria and there's a gigantic boom, a gigantic upward thrust, I'd have to think about selling. But I hope I'm smart enough not to sell. I know that when there's a serious problem in the world, you should always have some gold in the closet. You should have some silver under the bed. >> And what about silver, Jim? Silver's gone up since January by about 85% to its peak a week ago. Has silver officially caught up to gold, or do you think there's still a lot of room to move for silver from here? >> I own both. I try if one is down to buy more of the one that's down. I'm a simple person. And I try to buy low if and when they go down and if there's despair in the market, I hope I'm smart enough to buy more. I hope that my children wake up someday and say, "Gosh, he must have been smart. Look at all this gold and silver we have." I know that in my lifetime and in their lifetime, precious metals are always going to be a good safe haven. I you don't like to use the term safe haven about anything because I've been in the investment business a long time. I know that nothing is safe even if we think it is. But so far gold and silver have been a good place to be for centuries. >> Absolutely. And uh it seems that JP Morgan CEO Jamie Diamond seems to think so because he's recently this last week suggested that gold could reach $10,000. Do you think that's realistic or is it just headline talk from him? >> Well, it depends on you said $10,000. I guess you mean US dollars. The US dollar of course is a a flawed currency with the largest we the US is the largest debt nation in the history of the world and the debt's going higher every day. So historically when countries get in that shape they usually debase their currency. So the US dollar is probably going to be under threat in the future. And who knows how high the price can go in US dollars because the US dollar I don't like saying it but the US dollar is under duress. It's the debts go higher and higher in the US every day. So who knows how high it can go based in US dollars. I'd love to get into talking more about the US dollar in a second, but I have one more question for you about um gold and silver and price. And I'm wondering, you mentioned earlier that you're not selling your gold and silver, but if the price were to balloon up that you might consider it, is there a price point or do you have a number in mind where you would actually consider selling some of your gold or silver? But I've been around markets long enough to know that sometimes markets get totally irrational and hysterical. And if that happens and if I'm observant enough, I hope I'm smart enough to do something. I don't want to. I want my children and grandchildren to have my gold and silver someday because it's always when there's a problem, it's always been a good refuge. But, you know, I I know enough about markets to know that these things can happen. I hope they don't cuz I don't want to sell my gold and silver. Gold and silver for hundreds, for thousands of years have been a safe refuge whether we like it or not. And maybe the world is wrong. Okay, let them be wrong. But it's been going this way for thousands of years. So, I want to own more, not less. M Jim, sometimes some critics dismiss people like us who who love gold and silver as as fear-mongers or conspiracy theorists or or people who are overly skeptical about the financial system. What's your response to that kind of thinking? Do you think that precious metals are a bet on fear or simply rational protection in an uncertain world? >> I know that human beings to repeat for thousands of years have relied on gold and silver. Maybe the whole world is crazy. That's okay with me. I don't mind. Uh I still want to own it because I know that human beings always do strange things. And if gold and silver is considered strange, it's okay with me. I know we've been human beings have been doing it for thousands of years whether we like it or not. And so maybe I'm just a strange human being. But I want to it's one of the few times I want to join the crowd. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, thank you for for talking about gold and silver and precious metals, Jim. I'd like to now have a bit of a zoom out and discuss the broader investment uh landscape and talk about where you're seeing opportunities and risks today in the markets. Um, what's your current outlook on the global markets and on the US economy in in particular? Well, Cloney, I have sold my most of my shares around the world because it's one of the few times in history when everybody nearly every market in the world has been making new highs. And it's been my experience. In fact, I don't ever think I've ever seen a period quite like this when everything is going up and making new highs and everybody's happy. I've made many mistakes in my life, but I do know that when everybody's happy and everybody's on one side of the boat, it's time to think about doing something new. So, I sold I sold too soon. I don't mind being early, but I've sold uh I still own China. I still own Newspakistan shares, but for the most part, I'm sitting and watching. I have a lot of cash. My cash is mainly in US dollars because I know that many people in the world think that the US dollar is a safe haven. It's not. It's not. But people think it is. So therefore US dollars. >> Now Jim, you're saying you've sold out of most of your positions and you're sitting in cash. Obviously you're are you feeling uh bearish about what's to come or what's your your take or outlook on on what you think lies ahead? Well, bearish is not quite the right word because I'm not selling short anywhere yet. I'm waiting and watching. But Claudia, I have to hasten to tell you, I'm not good at market timing. I may be the worst market timer in history, certainly in the world. Uh because I often get my timing wrong. But someday uh if things keep going crazy and crazy and crazy going higher, I hope I will be smart enough to start selling short. Not yet though. >> Well, with your experience, you've lived through so many market cycles. Um, is there a period in history that you've seen before that mirrors what's going on in today's market environment? >> Well, Gloria, we've had many bull markets in my lifetime. I'm I'm not old enough to see them all, I'm happy to say, but I have seen many. And this is one of the few times when nearly every market at the same time is going up and everybody's optimistic all over the world. Usually some people are pessimistic. Some countries are but this is a you for me a unique period when everybody's making new house. I don't remember any time like this in my lifetime. I'm sure there have been. It's just that I'm too lazy to remember or to know them. But it's a wonderful period. It's a wonderful period for everybody. Everybody's making money. Everybody's happy. When everybody's happy, it's usually a time to ask questions. >> So, is there an an inevitable way that it has to end or how does every bull market end in history? >> Well, inevitable. I I don't like to use the word inevitable because that makes it sound easy. I do know in my experience that when nearly everybody's making money and having a good time and there no pessimist around, open the window and look out and see what's happening. You might start asking questions. I have started asking questions anyway. With the incredible rise in in obviously the price of gold and attention that precious metals is getting obviously as a form of sound money, do you think that the world is truly starting to move away from the US dollar? >> Well, again, I'm American. I don't particularly like saying it, but I know that US is the largest deter nation in the history of the world. The debt gets higher and higher every day. I think the problem that most of the world has, including me, is what's the alternative? I don't see a serious competitor right now in currencies and currencies anyway. I certainly know about gold and silver, but I don't see a currency yet that can compete with the US dollar. In theory, it would be the Chinese currency, but the Chinese currency is not completely convertible yet. I mean, it's getting there, but it's not there yet. I don't have an alternative at the moment. If you know what it is, please do not announce it on the air. Send me a private email because I'm looking for what's going to compete with the US dollar in the future. >> Well, I was going to ask you that. I wanted to to ask you, you mentioned you're holding a lot of US dollars and I was wondering how you balance that with your skepticism of the US dollar and how you feel about that. I mean I am American citizen and I'm quite keen on the US but I do know that we are the we the US are the largest deter nation in history. People in Washington don't care. They don't even seem to understand the situation the historic situation though it's going to continue to get worse. But I have know enough history and have enough experience. You know, in 1925, the British pound was the most powerful currency in the world. There was no number two. 50 years later, Britain was bankrupt. Literally bankrupt. Margaret Thatcher had to come in and she won the election because of that. And things got better. She did a lot of good things. By the way, the thing that really saved Margaret Thatcher in Britain was the North Sea oil. She was elected in 79 and that's the year the North Sea oil started flowing. Claudia, if you give me the largest oil field in the world, I'll show you a very, very good time. And she did. Yes, she did a lot of good things. But the North Sea helped bail her out. I'm afraid we in the US don't have a North Sea oil or something like that to bail us out at the moment. So, it worries me. But I still own a lot of US dollars because I have not found a good alternative currency yet. >> Well, some some say that we're witnessing a financial monetary reset right before our eyes. Um, and some are saying that gold might be at the center of that in the US and this is why gold is getting, you know, so much attention. I'm wondering, do you think uh that we're seeing a reset happen and do you think we're moving towards gold and that gold could play some part in a monetary reset? >> History shows that when everybody's doing well, it's a time to worry. Will we have a reset as you call it? I don't know. I do know that things are great everywhere. And yet there are underlying problems such as the debt situation in the US and some other countries. Whether that's going to lead to a reset or not, I don't know. But I do know that whenever we've had everybody happy, something bad usually happens. Whether it's just a bare market or not, I don't know. I do know that next bare market in the US will be very serious because it's been so long since we've had a problem in the US. So the next bare market's going to be quite serious. Whether that lead and usually when we have serious bare markets many people get worried some people get hysterical big changes take place whether that leads to a reset I don't know I've been hearing about resets all my life eventually we will have to have a reset >> now Jim you you've uh famously made big gains by going where others wouldn't for example China in the 1980s and commodities in the 1990s What opportunities are emerging and standing out to you today that you're keeping your eye on for that opportunity that you're looking for? >> Beautiful question. Wonderful question. I'm looking for what the new competing country or competing currency will be. I don't really see an alternative with China at the moment. China is the largest economy in the world, second one of the largest populations in the world. And China is the only country, you know, in world history that's had recurring periods of greatness. Rome was great once. Britain was great once. Egypt was great once. China's been great three or four times. They've had total collapse and catastrophe three or four times. But for whatever reason, every time they have a disaster, after a few decades or a few centuries, they rise again. They seem to be rising again. I don't know why, Claudia. I know history and I'm looking for another country. I'm always looking for another country. There's some countries that are doing better, but I don't see an alternative to China yet. >> And now, Jim, in the past, you've also warned about governments and governments intervening in crisis, whether through new taxes or capital controls or or the seizure of private assets. In your view, how real is that risk at the moment today? And um what what do you think investors can do to protect themselves and their wealth if governments do try to solve a financial crisis by taking from savers and asset holders again? >> Well, everybody has to make their own decisions. But in my lifetime, this kind of atmosphere where everybody's happy usually leads to problems. Now, I am looking for what to do. I do own gold and silver. I'm certainly not going to sell, but I am looking. Claudia, yes, China is on the rise, but China's gone up a lot recently. So, I don't know which country, which currency, which asset is going to be rising again to compete with gold and silver. I don't know an alternative. And I do own US dollars, but I know that the US dollar is a very flawed currency. The debt is skyrocketing in the US. I look at the numbers and I say, "Can't they add? Can't they subtract? How can this keep happening?" But in Washington, they say, "Don't worry. Everything will be okay." I know not to listen when politicians say, "Don't worry." Now, Jim, I have a question for our younger viewers, and I'm wondering if you were 30 years old again, living in the West with $50,000 to invest, how would you position yourself for the next decade? >> I would go to the beach. My gosh, if I had $50,000, oh my gosh, I would invite you. I would invite your sister. I would invite everybody I know. I will tell you what I'm doing. I'll repeat I mainly have cash right now mainly in US dollars and Pakistan I don't own many shares anywhere in the world this is a time which is unique or somewhat unique when everybody's having a good time in the stock markets around the world >> now Jim you mentioned you go to the beach and before we wrap up I'd like to touch on your travels and life lessons areas where very few investors can match your experience. You have broken three Guinness World Records, am I correct? And traveled through 116 countries. Now, you've met so many people from so many backgrounds, and I'm really curious, what's one thing you've found that all humans value in common around the world? >> Yes, I have spent lots of my time looking for adventure and traveling around the world. I guess the main answer to your question is I have found we're all alike. You know, we all like to sing and dance and have a good time. You know, everybody likes to drink some beer or some wine or something around the world. And I have found that everybody likes to sing and dance and have a good time. None of us want bad times. None of us won't despair. But I do know, Gloria, I guess if I've learned one thing is we're all the same. Doesn't matter if we speak different languages, different religions, different anything, we're still all the same underneath. Doesn't matter we're in the outback of Australia or the wilds of Africa, we're all the same. >> That's true. I think that's correct. >> That's not always good because we all get hysterical at times. You know, some politician comes along and says, you know, those people are bad people. You ask them why. They don't know why except they're different. And that >> people just want to be >> happy and enjoy their life. I guess >> we all want to have a good time. We all want to have things go well. >> Now, finally, Jim, I have one last question for you. I'm wondering what's the legacy in your incredible life that you hope to leave behind? You know, for all my life, I never wanted children. Thought children were a waste of time. And I felt sorry for my friends who had children. Then I had one and I realized I had been wrong. That children can be fabulous and wonderful experience. So I had another one. And by the way, Claudia, I will tell you, most people in the world seem to want boys. I will tell you that's wrong. One of the things I've learned is that girls are better than boys. So if you're going to have children, you should have girls. So I guess one thing I know that the one thing that I want legacy as you put it is for my children to be successful, educated, smart, and to figure out what is best for them and then to act and to do it. Not to follow the crowd. I hope I can teach my children and everybody to think for themselves and not to follow the crowd. the crowd is usually not right. >> Jim, that is a perfect note to end on. Um, you've had such an extraordinary journey and it's clear your legacy goes far beyond investing. It's about curiosity, independence, and lifelong learning. And Jim, it's been such a pleasure to have you here with us today. Your straight talking wisdom and global perspective are really always refreshing and I know our viewers have learned a lot from our conversation. So, thank you for being here at Bullion Star. >> It's my great pleasure. I hope to see you in the outback someday and I'll buy the beer. >> Thank you. >> Thanks, Jim. To everyone watching, thanks for tuning in. Don't forget to like, share, and subscribe for more conversations with some of the world's most insightful investors. And if you'd like to receive 10 g of silver for free, you can find our sign up link in the notes below. I'm Claudia Murket from Bullionar, and I look forward to seeing you next time.