welcome back everyone we are little brown women and this is our podcast unplugged every fortnight we talk candidly with our wondrous guests and with each other about a range of important and topical issues often from the lens of identity culture and empowerment today we welcome the wonderful ramona go hill onto the show ramona is the founder of the jewelry brand ranianko she is a formidable south asian entrepreneur and began her company from humble beginnings which has now gained a huge following and impressive success ramona has not only built rani and co on her passion for jewellery but also on feminism a concept which has always been a main driver behind her inspiration for the brand in today's episode we explore ramona's journey to owning a business her honest insights into the realities of being a female south asian entrepreneur and how feminism plays a part in the way she conducts her business and her life so without further ado let's get talking ramona welcome on to the show we are so excited hi thank you so much for having me no it's our pleasure we have been wanting you on the show for a while and we couldn't think of a better way to incorporate your entire podcast and on our women in business series oh thank you how have you been good um up and down i think this third look like definitely been the hardest but good overall what about you yeah no you know what same for us and i think it has been a weird one hasn't it like i think with the first two lockdowns it was kind of like okay we're still in 2020 but now we're in 2021 yeah i think we were all hoping for something different but you know what i'm sure i'm so sure that by some of things will kind of regain some normality i hope so yeah i hope so but i feel like we're like one step closer yeah going back to normality but it's like we are still in the same situation as last year so i agree and you know what i think against the backdrop of covert i probably i think it's probably even more um fitting that we're talking to you because obviously you're an entrepreneur and you own a business and covert has definitely affected that so yeah i guess just to kind of get the conversation started it would be really nice to kind of talk about your journey to becoming a female entrepreneur um and i guess the first question i have for you is i know that you have your separate day job and iranian co is you know almost like a second element to your repertoire it's your business that you have and it so i guess my first question would be from having a day job as a social media executive to then actually starting up ronnie and co was it that influenced you to actually go down a second route and become an entrepreneur ah this well it's gonna sound quite negative but i just really didn't like my job so i i started my my marketing career and i it's doing all these different jobs like seo social media and so on i just i just thought there's just so much more to life i didn't really like working for other people and i kind of always knew that i was going to have my own business i didn't know when it was going to be or what it was going to be um but i just knew it was going to happen from a young age um and then it was around the time when dior had a catwalk um they did a fashion show and the models wore these t-shirts and it said we should all be feminists and that went viral that just blew up on the internet and because i had been kind of going on my feminist journey around that time kind of just understanding what feminism is i was really into feminist and i loved those t-shirts and i thought why don't i kind of do my own a feminist brand um and so many big brands were selling from this slogan tease around that time so like misguided and so on it was just really cheapening feminism and it wasn't really getting to the point of what feminism actually is so i wanted to create a brand which remembers like incredible feminists incredible women the women who have fought for our rights and so on so that's when i came up with the idea of ronnie and co and it's i've loved it i love the fact that it's a feminist brand um and that's kind of how it started no i love that do you know it's really funny that you kind of spoke about deal because it's really interesting to understand the influence behind what started the brand itself it's also great to understand the way in which you looked at how feminism was being portrayed in fashion and then how that translated into your earlier um your earlier products and actually i have probably one of the earliest products yeah i have i have this really great jumper which is a white kind of like a white um crewneck jumper with the very famous quotes still i write from maya angelou yes and i love it i wear it all the time my fiancee bought it for me and it's it's just it's lovely but i think it's again very representative of your brand and i've been following you for years i think right right from the beginning of ronnie and co oh thank you it's it's you know it's been really nice to see how the brand has evolved and developed so much though hasn't it yeah from the beginning it no it really has but it's lovely and i think that's that's the great part about being an entrepreneur it's it's really innovative and we know you you are super innovative and so it's lovely to see how that's translated into the evolution of your business i mean i know that kind of you said that's how it started and you know the printed t-shirts were definitely i guess one of your like feet into the industry yeah yeah and that was the way you began and that's the sort of product you were trying to sell but alongside this really positive i guess really positive message about feminism rather than cheapening it how has it evolved because i know that your products are very different now but yeah they are the feminism is still there you know that that inspiration is still very much there but how how has it changed and what has inspired you to change it so obviously i started with clothing as the main product um and then i was thinking of doing jewelry but i was like oh i don't know mum was like why don't you just do it just go for jewelry as well so it's okay because i've always loved jewelry my friends have always asked me where i get my jewelry from and so on so i thought okay let's bring the jewelry element into the brand because we wear jewelry because it makes us feel better about ourselves and then when we feel better about ourselves we perform better and so on so and that's basically what the brand is about so did clothing and jewelry and and then it was actually around when covid happened and all the lock down happened that's when we kind of stopped doing the clothing because all of our supplies shut down um and just they didn't they couldn't get stuck in for months and it was it was just really just messed up a whole supply chain and i thought let's just take a step back on the clothing and let's focus on the jewelry and the jewellery was had always done well um and so now we are a jewelry brand so we're not doing the clothing anymore the clothing that is on our website we are just waiting for them to just sell out we won't be restocking them so this year is focused on bringing the feminist element more into the jewellery so i'm working on some pieces so for example this year we have a goddess collection coming out soon which is really exciting and i'm also working on some more pieces but i'm not going to say what they are but this year is all about trying to embody feminism more into the jewelry which isn't actually always an easy thing to do some people think oh it's just jewelry like it's just a necklace but everything i do it just has so much meaning behind it and so much thought behind it it's not just a necklace every single detail has been thought out um so that's what this year's gonna be about and that's basically how the brand has changed so much over the past three three years now three and a half years um so yeah oh i love it i think you know what raymond i think it's really important for us to have heard that and to understand that the evolution of a business and brand you know is not kind of one-dimensional it's really not yeah it's not yeah i think i think a lot of people have this idea that a business plan or business inspiration or idea has to be very concrete at its inception and whilst it does it's not the be-all and end-all because in fact just through yourself and what you've done you've shown that the beauty of success is accepting that change drives progress and you know i said this before you are super innovative um and i think you know with covid the fact that your supply is shut down you almost looked at the crisis and thought okay i can either accept the crisis and just stop or i can try and find the opportunity in it and that's exactly what you did but it could almost be like you can you know universal intervention you know moving the evolution of the business moving away from one exactly yeah another focus yeah it was definitely a shame because the clothing had so much meaning behind it and i know that some costs are quite upset that we're not doing the clothing anymore but then at the end of the day if i want running coast still to exist and still to inspire other women and be a feminist brand i need to think about what's best for the business and things we can always bring back clothing in the future it doesn't mean it's the end but i just want writing code to survive so that we can keep inspiring other women no i couldn't agree more and i really love i love your progressive mindset that's exactly that's that's that's the kind of mindset you need in business because if you kind of come from defeatist mindset yeah you can fail quicker than you've even made progress which is oh yeah a hundred percent right no that is so true like when things go wrong in business i don't actually get upset because i'm usually like an emotional wreck but like surprisingly in business i don't have sex i'm like i decided to go into business so i have to deal with everything the goods and the bads so i just try to like collect myself and like calm about the situation like okay what can i do to solve the situation yeah so i feel like yeah it's really you kind of do have to separate your emotions in business sometimes it's not the easiest thing to do but you kind of have to sometimes yeah no i completely appreciate that and i think that's a really constructive way of looking at it and i know that you mentioned you know i asked you at the beginning sort of what were your inspirations behind starting ronnie and co i just wanted to ask you know was was the idea of heading up your own business and only being answerable to yourself a big motivator yeah it definitely was um i i just felt like when you work for someone else i feel like that for me that had no purpose and i didn't like that there's a limit on how much you earn every month i i was like i can work hard i will still earn the same amount i can do hardly any work and i'm still going to earn the same amount to me that doesn't make sense so i have a control problem i'm definitely a control freak so if i have control over how much i can earn yeah and i can actually see like if i earn more because i'm hot it's because i'm working harder for me that makes more sense yeah so i just i i just don't i really don't like working other people so even though i still do now i'm still on a full-time job but i'm obviously working towards hopefully being self-employed ronnie and clay yeah so that's kind of one of my goals at the moment you are extremely empowering ramona i love it i love you give me way too many compliments already do you know what i think it's one of those things it's where someone has so many positive traits about them why not tell them that's exactly why we wanted you you know on this series because you are doing you know what so many people call a side hustle but you come at it with such a more i mean just a way more focused approach and the fact that you've kind of just said here yeah i have my own sort of full-time career but i'm working towards making ronnie and co mine my full-time thing that i do every single day and that's really empowering because it's it's scary to admit that you're going to go about your life independently because we've been brought up in this society and concept where you have to work for someone else so again at lbw we're all about breaking those stereotypes and challenging the status quo and that's exactly what you embody so thank you thank you for sharing that with us i guess on that note it would be interesting to actually understand where the inspiration behind rani encode the brand name came from yes so i actually wanted to use my own name in the brand because it's a very like personal thing my whole feminist journey and so on everyone gets my name wrong they always spell it wrong i get called the weirdest things i was like you know what we're not gonna put my name in there so um i i'm very close to my sister um i think assistant bond is just honestly one of the best things and i wanted to also incorporate her name into the business so my name obviously is ramona her name is anisha so i got the first two letters of both of our names and came up with ronnie ronnie also means queen and hindi which is perfect to go with the feminist brand um and then the and covet means and company so it basically means queens in the company of other queens because we are women supporting women we're all trying to lift and inspire each other so that's where the brand name came from i actually thought about the name whilst driving to work um and it just popped in my head and i just i loved it and just went with it thank you for sharing that that's it's so personal it's really interesting when you go on instagram and you see brands and you think wow this is so cool but when you actually hear from their founders and when you hear about the inspiration behind you know one of the most important things which is the brand name it just gives it this sense of real personality really understanding and again i mean i say that no it's not just about understanding you but also that really lovely incorporation of the the concept of feminism and it's so inclusive and it's i mean it's just it's lovely it's really lovely and thank you it's relatable you know and i think that's what gives your brand so much integrity so i i mean i can't say any more but you know to to shop at a brand like ronnie and co you're not just buying a product you're buying into the ethos of the brand yeah no exactly exactly and that's exactly what you do um well i guess my last my last question to you ramona would be you're so empowering you know you're so progressive in the way that you think not just about your own life but the way you do business so for all of our listeners that are listening to this episode what would your top kind of tips or resources be for launching and sustaining your business well one of the questions i get all the time is like how do i start business or how do i go about it google is your best friend i google everything like i start with knowing nothing google everything and i think one thing that i also learnt um is when i first started the brand i was trying to to diversify my product range too much too quickly yeah um so i did the talks i did the joint then i started bringing out phone cases and wallpapers and um sorry uh like printed quotes and so on and it was just it was just it was too much so establish yourself as like a product range work on the things that are working well for you like if there's a certain product that's selling well work on that and focus on that rather than trying to bring out lots of new product ranges because when you become established for that one thing then bringing out a product range is going to be more likely to be successful so don't just go in and just do everything have a focus and a plan when you're going to start your business that's no that's really important and i think where you speak about having that focus and streamlining your brand and establishing the product range so it fits in with your business vision i guess that kind of leads back to what we were saying about the evolution of business you can't actually start with everything at once but would you say that through kind of your time at ronnie and co you've really been able to hone in on the type of products that your that your customers want by actually seeing the trends and seeing what they engage with yeah but you know what only over the past year i've really been focusing on that i feel like the past not even the past year the past few months is have been good as in the sense of the brand growing because i've had more of a focus but for about a year i was quite lost in my business and i haven't actually admitted that before because i don't know i just i just haven't because i wasn't comfortable telling anyone but i admitted it to myself and i was quite lost in the business it's only over the past few months i've really been focused on what's been working well and the kind of products are working well and then now i'm trying to focus more on designing similar products or kind of like collections and sets so like our teardrop um cuffs and teardrop rings that's like a set now and then i want to bring out a choker and stuff like that so yeah i'm definitely focusing more now on what is working thank you so much for admitting that ramona because you know sometimes you just you just have to be honest and especially it is true yeah yeah especially i mean you have so much integrity anyway and danny kay and i we always say that you can't move forward until you have clarity in the present and so you're a great example of that perfect no that is that is very true i think because i do get people being very nice giving me confidence giving me praise saying i inspire them and so on um which is lovely but there are times where i do feel very lost so i just want to be honest about that yeah and just show that the business journey is not as glamorous as it looks it's not always easy especially when you're doing it yourself that's why i really doubt myself um because i see like friends who have businesses and they've grown so fast and they're self-employed within like a year like how these people have done it yeah so there are definitely moments where i get scared um and that's just part of the reality of having a business yeah no i honestly i couldn't agree more and i mean even even at lbw you know this is a new thing for us and i think being honest it's not being honest with other people it's but it's actually really being honest with yourself and when you have that honesty it helps you to move forward so much quicker because you're not operating from a place of denial you're operating from a place of okay this is what's going right this is what i want to improve and you kind of give yourself that motivation hundred percent yeah is that ugly thank you so much for your honesty young female entrepreneurs who want to get into the business this is the sort of advice that is not readily available so thank you so much thank you ramona it's been so valuable hearing your journey and i know a lot of us would share your thoughts and frustrations and you know i love how the fact that you just that just gave you the spark that nudge towards creating ronnie and co and i and i absolutely love the fact that the idea of ronnie and co as a name that just came to you during your drive yeah you're the person who just get stuck in no matter what you know pursuing your dreams and not giving a damn about what anyone thinks you have google at your fingertips and you just utilize your resources so well purely because you're passionate about your dreams because as long as you're happy doing it that's what matters at least you went with your gut and you have no regrets it's true yeah definitely no but whether ryan could last and doesn't last like no regrets whatsoever thank you so much for joining us today but you know now i want to reflect on your journey to running and being an entrepreneur always holds certain risks and you know it may have led you to making some risky decisions right so what are some of the operational challenges you faced over the lifetime of ronnie and co especially during the current virus pandemic oh operational challenges i mean finding supplies is always difficult it's oh god it took me about a year to find my jewelry supplier i have had an incident where i chose the wrong supplier i actually so what happened was i was talking to the supplier for about four clothing and they said oh i can do this sample that sample i was like oh great um he's like it'll be this much i was like okay sent him the money he stopped replying to my messages luckily it was only 60 pounds but that taught me so much about little supplies and the right questions to ask them so now i have a lot more experience and no questions to ask them but when covered happens i couldn't get jewelry stock in for about three months because my joy was coming from india and they're locked down they couldn't even leave the house um so that was really hard so there was a few months where sales were really slow because our best-selling stuff comes from india um and to do that i wasn't that scared because i still had a full-time job and i knew that india was going to open up again this wasn't like a permanent thing um it's just it was just really frustrating when that happened but apart from that i don't think i've had any major operational um challenges actually no sorry there was one so drop shipping i used to do drop shipping and for those who don't know what drop shipping is it's basically if a customer orders something on my website like a sweatshirt it goes directly to a company who prints it on demand so i don't have any stock lying around so in that sense it's really good that i don't have money tied up in stock yeah but we had so many issues with drop shipping that i had to stop it so for example with drop shipping it would take them about five days just to print the top and then they would ship it off and by the time customers were getting their tops it would be about two weeks which is not acceptable also because you don't get to i don't get to see the product before it goes out because it just gets sent straight to the supplier people getting wrong prints and for example had a frida kahlo t-shirt instead of just printing it on the left breast they would print a massive face all over the t-shirt and i was like what is what are these people doing and i had so many returns and it was just going so wrong so i completely stopped drop shipping and had to tie more money up into bulk ordering with suppliers that was a huge lesson never doing drop shipping drop shipping again if you want to do drop shipping you do it because you want money not so much for branding because it's pretty bad for branding and i want to build a brand like a whole feminist brand that was the most important thing to me is not the money so that was a huge lesson and probably the most challenging thing i've had wow operation what i've seen and what i've learned from various guests and entrepreneurs is that innovation is usually driven through you know the limited resources so your resources or your aids were limited to the point where you didn't really have much time to think or much money to just react or ponder and that's it that lesson taught you what your mission statement was for ronnie and co the branding matter to you and that's what guided your decision right i'm gonna stop drop shipping because this is going against my values and my mission for ronnie and co that's where innovation is driven and and that's why you're so successful today because you thrive in in crisis trying to stay motivated through hardship is difficult you know it's tough work and it's exhausting and i can imagine it's the same when it comes to your social media and keeping up with the latest trends as you said it's not as glamorous as we may get out to be you know so so how do you keep your brand current and how do you keep up with the desires of your audience and social media sometimes it is looking at competitors seeing what they're doing not copying but just getting inspiration there's nothing wrong with that and also whenever i do create something or i get a sample i usually put it on my stories and do a poll to see how people react to it um and that's basically how i get people's judgment on designs but there are some things that i've made and they don't sell as well and it can be quite difficult oh my god like this thing i think it's beautiful but people don't think it's beautiful but business doesn't care about you it's about what the market wants and that can sometimes be a hard thing to accept um but like i said earlier so for example the teardrop rings that we have they did really well and then i was like okay now i'm going to go into creating a bracelet which i did and now i'm going onto making a necklace for it so it is about just seeing what's working well and we also created our own like b necklace because our bumblebee necklaces were doing well so now we've created a queen bee necklace so it's just yeah just going behind the analytics understanding your customer what inspires them what they want to buy and just working on that that's it you're not afraid to actually understand what the market wants because not necessarily it kind of aligns with what you think even though you still maintain your authenticity of the brand and the mission you're willing to receive you know constructive feedback and yeah that brings me on to the next point from a cultural perspective it's so empowering to see a south asian female entrepreneur doing so well and do something that they love it makes us feel like yeah if she can do it we can do it too but you know i've i'm sure you have had your fair share of positive and potentially negative feedback from your clients and followers right yeah so you know what has been the reaction to your brand over the past few years and how do you deal with criticism as a businesswoman mostly i've had amazing comments a lot of people say that the brand inspires them they love the meaning of the brand which is honestly amazing when i first started the brand i was really focusing like i was talking more about feminism and more feminists just kind of stuff my instagram feed and i got quite i got some trolls um and that was difficult and they were basically it was just a bunch of men basically saying sexy stuff god and it was really hard i was like i don't want to get an argument with them but i would i did reply to some of them and my friend said to me she was like you need to be very careful about stuff that could really damage your brand i was like yeah she's so right it's not even worth applying to these people um so that was difficult dealing with trolls at the beginning don't really get that as much anymore which is great um criticism to be honest i haven't really had any criticism about like being a woman in business or anything like that i just get i have been i mean i have met guys who unfortunately kind of just don't take business seriously they kind of just like laugh it off um because they think i was just a woman doing another girly thing um but at the end of the day as long as you're happy with what you're doing that's all that really matters i don't don't really care what they think to be honest um so yeah no that's you're dead right it's just you're so passionate about making sure that what you're doing is right and what you're doing aligns with your happiness and you don't you don't care about what other people think you're just doing you you know and you're putting everything all of yourself into it and you're just making sure that no one is making you doubt your mission or your values you know so thank you so much for showing that it's been incredible such a pleasure listening to your journey and i think it's so empowering hearing a woman in business really succeed and sort of what she's had to overcome and it yeah to me it's r it's really empowering to hear your journey but what i wanted the audience to really get an understanding for is understanding the value of feminism in your work and how it plays a role in your life you know it's not just something that goes with your brand it's really it's as you've mentioned throughout this conversation it's something that really really means something to you for you to base have a have that as a basis for your brand ronnie and co you know it's a brand that stood out to us actively that incorporates feminism into its products and branding i mean for me especially um something that is on my wish list is your aphrodite oh yes oh it's so popular gorgeous it is honestly it's such a beautiful embodiment of the female of the female you know what i mean for you to wear it's like without you having to show yourself to feel empowered it but you're having this goddess of beauty and virtue and love and everything powerful about a woman a woman around your neck and that is something it's just it's so beautiful and it really does it really does pay attribute to your you know the amount of work that you put in but what inspired you to focus on feminism oh gosh my oh let's talk about my friends my feminist journey so um i have been a feminist from a young age without even realizing i've been surrounded by strong women like my mom and my my nanny um and i i don't know what it was from a young age i've always looked up to women i don't know why so like princess diana i thought she was an incredible woman um yeah and um unfortunately growing up from about the age of seven i like many women experience like sexual harassment assault and so on and it just made me angry and i was a bit naive i thought you know if i just study hard and maybe these men will respect me obviously that did not make a difference um when i went to university um obviously on nights out like it was ridiculous i mean i had people i had a guy pull my top down i had a guy tried to punch me because i didn't want to dance with him and then he pushed me to the floor um i just felt experienced so i'm like probably not very nice things um and then i was actually university when i was writing my um dissertation on the glass ceiling that's when i um some of my uni friends they actually started calling me a feminist as a joke as if it was a bad thing i bless them my friends are lovely but um i googled what a feminist was and i was like actually why wouldn't i be a feminist like it makes sense and that's that was the moment that i really started kind of exploring feminism and i just think it's such a great movement like it's so inclusive it includes every gender every race every age whatever you identify as and it is actually a peaceful movement even though the media like shows it in a different negative light but it's a great movement um and i just think that the media just is in such a bad light and people just missing the point of what feminism is because it benefits everyone men and women so that's what i really want the brand to focus on um yeah that's so inspiring ramona you don't realize this but i can relate to you i really really relate to you your university experience you're growing up in an over-sexualized yeah it's it's it's just rubbish like so many women still don't talk about it i understand why it's not an easy thing to talk about um but the fact that so many women do experience it just brush it up to the side like i just don't think it's okay yeah so i'm willing to talk about this kind of stuff yeah absolutely and you've always got you've got us to to you know i really stand in your corner on that on that forefront and i think it's it's really important for us to utilize the tools that we've been given in this day and age to really amplify our voices and yeah make sure that we're heard in the right way you know it's it's not about sort of coming out in a gossipy way and creating tea if that makes sense it's yeah the way you're doing it is beautiful because you are creating something that makes the woman feel empowered and makes her feel like it's her right to be you know proud and to show off yeah she is do you know what i mean exactly exactly and i just feel like i don't know what it is but from a very young age i've also had an appreciation of people who have fought for women's rights like the suffragettes and so on because without them we still won't be able to do any of the stuff that we're doing these days so the way i see it is even though sometimes i do focus on the bad things that women experience and it just makes me very upset i just want to use my education everything that i've been given to create something which encourages other women to do the same um so that's kind of what running co is yeah another thing i wanted to touch on is how is feminism a part of your life outside of writing co so what what kind of things do you incorporate or do in your everyday so i go on my regular feminist rants which my parents get back even if we're like a family gathering and someone says someone said i always speak up about it i'm not afraid at all to speak up but even things like at work um i'm quite open about it so i actually got a bit annoyed because in um at work so i'm part of this team all men obviously and i was asked to make sure that we look for um female-owned startups and so on and make sure that they're diverse and all of that and i just in the meeting i got really annoyed even though of course i want to see more owned startups someone himself but it was more that they asked me because i'm a woman and so i said to them in the meeting i was like are you asking me to do this because i'm a woman they're like no no it's because you're interested in it i'm like but why aren't you interested in it because you're just white men exactly so i was just like it really annoyed me um but because i spoke up what they did is that because when they were looking for someone to um they're looking someone to hire they actually looked at the language and realized that the language is more focused for men and so they change it to also um attract female employees as well and then we did actually employ a female employee and the guy who was heading up the meeting he said thank you very for speaking up because of you we have you realized what we were doing wrong and it's just stuff like that like don't get me wrong i was like sweating and shaking in that meeting because i was like a bit nervous but just if you i just feel like speaking up you don't have to do an aggressive way but it can really help to make a difference even if the tiniest difference it's a difference um so i really do try to incorporate it like basically everywhere i go if i see something wrong then i will speak up and it's that simple isn't it i think you don't have to like go out and do protests and do marches and stuff but i think you know even just incorporating it in being that person that starts a conversation that is a huge thing that that really advocates um people to think differently you know you might not realize it at the time but those those men will go home and they'll have those conversations with them with their wives which will open up a different perspective for them and i think that is so important because you know one thing i even realized when my husband comes home from work and him and and he works in quite a male environment and he says certain things to me and he's like well what do you think and i'm like well if you saw it from this perspective then you wouldn't see it as x y and zed and i think you giving your insight and really sort of saying instead of sitting there and saying oh men let's just get on with it because there's no point arguing with them it's making that little bit of noise and hoping it goes somewhere and i think the more and more you make that noise eventually eventually yeah we can hope that a little part of it will be understood and heard it's true like it's like what they say like you have to be the change you want to see and that is that is absolutely it um what would your one piece of advice be to female entrepreneurs that are hoping to launch their own businesses and why would that be your one piece of advice i don't think i have a piece of advice for female entrepreneurs but mostly just all entrepreneurs um because i think as a female because i haven't experienced anything negative as a female in business so i can't really answer that question but for all entrepreneurs my tip would be don't start something for the money do it because you're passionate about it if you do it for the money you're just gonna run out of drive and it's it's just it's not going to work i've seen so many businesses start and you just know they're doing it for the money and a few months later they've just disappeared if you want a business you want it for the long run so make sure it's something that you're very passionate about and have a vision for um as well um and yeah just just go for it just don't care what anyone thinks i see a lot of people scared to start a business because the world what what if i fail the only reason you're thinking that's because you're wondering what people are gonna think of me what they're going to say people are going to judge you regardless just do what you want do what's best for you and do whatever makes you happy and that's the best piece of advice you can give someone isn't it honestly that is really really really good advice from ramona it's been a pleasure sort of diving into that part of your brand and yourself as well there is there's one more question and this is something that we like to finish each of our conversations on and that is by asking our guests what does empowerment mean to you empowerment for me is the freedom to make decisions that are best for me um so for example i talk about this a lot about body hair because when i was little i used to cry a lot about how hairy i am i'm half punjabi so i am very hairy but as i grew older i kind of started to accept my body hair and realize that actually it's not a bad thing it's the patriarchy that is telling me that body hair is disgusting on woman and it's not it really isn't it's a very natural thing so now i don't shave in some parts of my like body i don't really remove hair on my arms and i'm actually okay with it and i've accepted that and i think that is so so empowering that i've accepted something about myself when society tells me not to accept that part so it is about the freedom of making choices that are best for you that's beautiful and again extremely relatable ramona i myself was a very hairy kid i actually said it in one of our earlier podcasts ramona i was so hairy you know what we're not even going to get into it because it was that deep but it was it was a tough time let's say you know up until and especially when you grow up in an asian household it's like because it's so common we're in we're in a society where it's also so uncommon you know your parents don't really get the removing it from an early age and then you do and you have it's a terrible terrible ordeal yeah if anyone in the other things listen i was lucky because my mom is punjabi so she knows that i needed to remove it when i was like 12. but coming to all girls school and i played lots of sports and i was always in shorts and skirts that was hard because oh my god yeah i went to a girls school too that is crazy except my mom was not understanding at all like i had a unibrow till about yeah yeah gosh the whole lot oh my god i actually i'm actually quite happy about it now though because yeah yeah we've got wonderful hair and you know exactly big browser and fashion like that's it for today guys as always we will be welcoming more great guests over the next few months so stay tuned in and keep listening if you love what you hear and want to continue supporting us please follow us on spotify and itunes to keep on top of our latest episodes we love sharing knowledge and the advice and inspirations of our guests and if you truly love our content too please leave a rating and comment on itunes to help the unplugged podcast reach the ears of more people who want to feel empowered and join in on the conversations that break the status quo and tackle the important and topical issues head on for more little brown women content don't forget to follow us on instagram youtube and twitter and don't forget to like and leave a comment on our posts remember to also sign up to our mailing list via our instagram page to receive little brown women's quarterly 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