It's Sunday, March 8th, 2026. I'm Anthony Davis. Welcome to the weekend show where we make the time to consider the news of the week. You can support my work and independent journalism at patreon.com/5minutenews. Our guest today is a professor at the Harvard Kennedy School. She's author of six books including most recently The Devil Never Never Sleeps. She's a former senior appointee at both the DOJ and the DHS and is a contributing writer at The Atlantic. Juliette Kayem, welcome back to the weekend show. >> Thank you for having me. >> Uh I wish it was under better circumstances, Juliette, because uh as we speak America is at war. The uh no new war president has uh turned on his heels. You would think he doesn't really care about uh his base or the opinion polls anymore, wouldn't you? But um he's now asking Iran for unconditional surrender to bring an end to the offensive launched just over a week ago as the uh US and Israel carried out some of their heaviest bombardments so far of the conflict. Do you think that um this uh attack was instigated by Donald Trump or was he kind of stepping in on behalf of other people because we still don't really know, do we? >> Uh yeah, I mean, I think he is the president of the United States. He the he did it. Like I I mean, I I I understand the sort of you know, Israel and they wanted to do it, but but I mean, people he's a grown man and whatever you think about his his mental capacity, he is he is in charge of he is our commander-in-chief and he decided to go to a war that was uh that was not where where no risk was imminent with Israel that certainly wanted this and and then didn't appear to have either a a day zero theory of what why we were doing this nor a day one plan for what was likely to happen >> Yeah. >> I do think just going to that question though like I do think there will be and there have already started to be sort of like you know what was he being told by Jared Kushner and Witkoff the two the two ambassador lights or whatever they are >> real estate >> real estate lights who were negotiating with Iranians up to a point but I think all legitimate reporting has it that the president was pretty much decided on this several weeks ago which even which makes the lack of day the day after planning even more shocking we know we're seeing it mostly here in the United States with the with the with the issue of like how do you strand your population without an exit strategy but but is also being felt across the board in in in the economy and supply chain and obviously in in in the the military effort itself that that is just clear that whoever told him that that this was Venezuela you know in the Gulf was wrong. >> Right because I guess time will tell and investigations will be done as to who instigated this war and you're right of course it has Donald Trump's signature on it. It does not have Congress's signature on it though so that's really the first illegal move and despite trying to kind of you know get a war powers vote in in in Congress and in the Senate that that hasn't really been successful either. Is it that Donald Trump thinks that because he has a majority in Congress and because the speaker of the house is, you know, very much in the tank for him that that Congress is now irrelevant because I mean that is a wider question about American democracy, isn't it? >> Yeah, it is. I mean I I I tend to like, you know, the the the legal stuff is important. The constitutional division of labor is important, but Congress has given the president every reason to believe that his that his assertion of unitary power is okay, right? So so it's it's he's he's reading the tea leaves that that Mike Johnson and and the Senate leadership on the Republican side are giving him. And so and they gave it to him in two votes. Uh in the in the Senate one vote in the Senate one vote in the house in terms of trying to limit his, you know, his ability to fight this war. They're they're playing around with what they're calling this. Like is it a war? Is it not a war? It They They They It's a war. Trump has said as much. Heck said as has said as much. It's a war. So we we just accept that and it's a war without without I mean even this is a thing that was driving me crazy. Like even an attempt to convince the American public. I mean that is I mean I'm not surprised at what the polling is and whatever, but like not even a try. At least at least Bush and Cheney tried to delude us. I mean maybe I'm happy that they tried to do that, but but this was I mean and and part of it was, you know, clearly I think it is the echo chamber of that White House and and the echo chamber of of of of of Israel and and the sense that no one could possibly oppose the killing of of of the supreme leader, but also I you know, I think it is you know, part of this is also that that if you don't think through the consequences of something then it seems fine. Right? I mean who who wouldn't want that, you know, okay, that you were going to kill this like that. >> But that's the emotional blackmail, isn't it? You know, it's like if you want the Ayatollah dead, then you got to agree to all this other stuff, too. But but what we're seeing and obviously the polling suggests the majority of Americans do not want this war. Um and obviously the the the the rest of the world does not want this war. Iran does not want this war. In fact, Iran wanted to go back to the Iran nuclear deal that was previously signed that Trump tore up. So the the the the wider problem, I guess though, is that is a trust issue, isn't it? Because if the president can take the country to war in cahoots with Benjamin Netanyahu in this case, which is a war that he's wanted for 40 years. Does that mean that now in the US people are living under a dictatorship? That that this kind of, you know, fascism has taken hold and that the democracy is a thing of the past. >> And I I I think that's a a little strong. I mean, obviously we're all looking to November in terms of what does that mean not just who wins, but also sort of the the the way to test the democracy is where are there relatively free and fair elections? I think I think that and and I do think the polling on this suggests that and and the panic we're starting to hear from the White House about the economy, about oil price and gas prices and stuff is you know, a sign that that that that we have a government that's still responsive to public opinion, unlike the Iranians, right? Like it's just sort of So that to me is a sign. I I think a couple things on on sort of you know, what were they thinking and and you sort of what I mean I think part of it is I just think Trump doesn't care anymore. Like I think that he you know, you know, whether you know, there's going to be elections or not everyone's worried about that. But I I I think that he creates a narrative about himself and if you don't believe that narrative, you're stupid and so 80% of the American public or 70% of the American public uh is is stupid and I think that that is he he just doesn't or wrong or right and he just doesn't care at this stage and I think you're seeing that in a in a variety of ways. He he calls Dana Bash from CNN this morning and what was like we're on to the next war. I mean he's threatening Cuba. Um and so I think that's that strikes me as someone who is just throwing a lot of things at the wall. What I tell progressives, I know people who listen to you, I listen to you, what I tell progressives is you know, we always worry and and you know, and rightfully so, but like I would be more worried if this was popular. Like the truth is is that we have to wake up those of us and whether you're progressive or center or even a Republican who doesn't like what's going on, we have to wake up and we every morning and remind ourselves he is wildly unpopular. Um not maybe not unpopular enough and I hear people say that, but like I mean it is it is consistently 40 or below, 40% or below. I would be more worried for our democracy if he was at 70. I would. I mean that would scare me cuz then I would think, oh my god, we have a country that, you know, and and look we we have seen over the course of the year lots of people acquiescing, the law firms, like lots of things being bent and broken and all and DOJ that's that is essentially an arm of of his political um wrath and fury, right? We've seen but we've also seen pushback and we've also seen uh them step down um on a variety of things um uh which we're going to talk about later. For example, firing Kristie Noem. Like that is to me, that's being responsive to something that they could no longer manage. In this, look, the death toll like there's like you can't hide what's going on. And I think their attacks on the media right now are because the war started with a horrible miscalculation. I don't think I don't think we were aiming for it. A horrible horrible miscalculation of of of a site that ended up being a schoolyard, which I think everyone now agrees or a school that everyone now agrees was hit by the US and not and not by Israel. Um we have >> That was a that was 165 children killed. >> Yeah, children killed. Yeah. And and and based on old data and old maps and AI and all the stuff that that you know is just horrifying to think that if only a human had sort of stepped in and said, "Should I look at Google Maps?" You know, like um uh uh maybe we could have saved those lives and you you know you have a a reaction in the market, a reaction by our allies, a reaction by the Gulf countries, um and and obviously reaction by Iran. I mean, if I were to describe you know, Trump's you know, sort of philosophy is he never he never believes the other party has agency. All right, so those of us who know this world, like you know, and I many many years ago I was against the Iraq War for the same reason. Like countries have a capacity that they're they're thinking through their survivability too. And the idea that you would think that killing the supreme leader and they didn't have who's in his 80s anyway, and they didn't have a they didn't already have a succession plan um nor a plan to extract as much pain as they could even with limited military capacity. Like like where have you been the last 40 years, right? I mean it's like like oh my god, Iran you know they you know is reacting. It's like yeah. >> But but isn't that isn't that based in Trump's racism and white supremacy? >> I I think it's >> He kind of sees any Muslim nations or non-white Christian nationalist nations as being secondary in terms of intelligence capability to the United States. And and they're widely underestimating Iran which was highly developed. And and and >> sophisticating then. >> So sophisticated and if it wasn't for the for this kind of regime that has been in charge for 30 odd years, then it might be allowed to flourish more, but it doesn't stop them from being highly intelligent and efficient. And we're seeing that with them using these small $20,000 drones which are absolutely pummeling these other other nations. And in the meantime we're using $2 million missiles that aren't really able to taking out our drones. >> taking out our fad. You know I mean they're taking out you know they're they're they're you know we've repositioned everything for the Middle East. So you know forget Europe and forget China. No that's exa- I mean that's exactly right. And I I think it comes from such a simplistic view that we can't seem to get out of our you know national me- um you know blindfold. I don't know what it is or about how about interactions with the Middle East. I think part of that is because that is it it is often narrated by Israel who obviously has an agenda. Like the idea that Israel is is is who we would get information on about what's likely to happen in Iran. I mean, we know Netanyahu has wanted this war forever and would have forever war. So, his his you know, his narration of what's going to happen in Iran is already we we should already have known it was suspect. But we have lots of smart people in this country who've been studying that country. Lots of amazing assets in the in our in our in our government. >> Right. >> We had we had essentially massive leaks from the Pentagon in the days leading up to the same the same exact thing that a decapitation is not that this is not how it works, right? Because it because it is a sophisticated society with resiliency and is now all we've done from what I can tell them and we've eviscerated a lot of their capacity. I look at the numbers and the drone strikes are less all this stuff. We but from what I can tell, we've now put in a 30 year younger more conservative >> Right. >> supreme leader and we've killed his father and immediate family members. Like like >> But we did the same thing in in in Venezuela. >> Yeah, what's our strategy? Yeah, we killed >> That's the irony of it. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, but but and I think part of this narrative of like what what what explanation for the war are we in? We're in number six today which is the total annihilation. That's what this was about. The the the the the different explanations are for the war are because the first explanation didn't hold. >> Yeah. >> Right. And it didn't hold pretty quickly. The military realized pretty quickly oh my, their response isn't we are going to have regime change from the ground, right? >> Yeah. >> It is we are going to make this hurt. We're and in particular, we're going to make the Gulf nations feel this so hard. And which is what's happening right now. Uh that that we we want to break up uh whatever unity they had before the strike. And you're seeing that now. The Gulf states are >> It does seem that Trump had absolutely no idea. And nor did, you know, the Department of War under Hexeceth. I mean, the irony of the name change going to make so whole lot of sense now, doesn't it? But they had no idea that Iran wouldn't just strike back at Israel. That it would actually then start striking back at US bases right across the Middle East. >> Right across throughout the Gulf. I mean, I spend a lot of time in the Gulf. Throughout the Gulf, okay? But also our supply chain. Like this is the thing that I literally, like, you know, if you if you study supply chains like I do cuz I I I you know, I look at them as a you know, their resiliency. Are they resilient? >> Well, it's it's all connected, right? >> We had a single point of failure. We already knew we had a single point of failure, which is could you keep the straits of Hormuz open or not? And if I sound more crazy than more more energized than I normally do, it's because one is because it drives me crazy when people do stupid things, but it's because the impact, now we're in day six, the impact of it is going to start to be felt by Americans, but also by the Gulf. I know we're talking about oil, but the food supply I mean, if you've been to the Gulf, I mean, it doesn't have any natural resources except for oil. The food supply, the water supply, all that stuff. People are going to suffer. And the Gulf states that have been handing them Trump and Kushner and all of them lots and lots of money and been handing conservative um uh businessmen all sorts of money through their through their their various uh >> contracts and all >> Yeah, contracts. You know, are now realizing wait, they're not defending us. >> So, we now have Russia being allowed to sell its oil to India temporarily. I mean, this all looks good for Russia, doesn't it? I mean, you know, they don't really have to get involved. They're just sitting back and watching everybody fight it out. Uh the US is pretty much energy independent from an perspective, but as you say, there are other things that keep the world turning that are being compromised because of the Strait of Hormuz. So, you know, could you argue that actually this is just Trump doing Russia's bidding as well as Israel's bidding in the long run? >> I would say that if you were going to be doing Russia's bidding, it would look like this. Right? I don't you know, I mean, once again, this is assuming a level of sophistication uh but you know, by by by Trump and his team about secondary third third third impacts, but if you if you wanted to do, you know, if you you you you allow Russia to sell oil to India and some you know, once again, it's like also humiliating to our allies India and you then uh know that Russia is sharing secrets with Tehran about where where we are because they have extensive uh intelligence apparatus as well despite the the war in Ukraine. Uh yeah, it would look like this. It would look like this. And and the other would be would be of course China. I mean, China has remained relatively quiet through this because it is literally I mean, it is this is like you know, I mean, if you're China, you're like I couldn't have asked for anything better. they're >> it's a gift to America's traditional adversaries, which are increasingly becoming allies, and allies are increasingly becoming adversaries. I mean, just to talk for the UK for a moment. Keir Starmer is getting an awful lot of crap from members of Parliament about how he handled this, but it now turns out he didn't even know about it. >> No. >> The US did not tell the UK, its closest ally in in kind of warfare, that they planned on striking Iran. >> That's exactly right. >> So, he was several days behind the time. >> Yeah. What's the special relationship? No, and then and then Hagseth is is mad that European nations are now either assisting, you know, as France as you see what's happening in Lebanon as as as Israel takes this as an opportunity as Netanyahu takes this as an opportunity to to now wipe out Hezbollah in Lebanon >> Yeah. >> um without regard for civilian loss again, and um and uh you're seeing a bunch of the European countries now saying, "You Wait a second. You've been You've been You've been horrible, right? Like like you're you you know, like is it beyond horrible for the last year, and now you want Now you want us? Like like This is the thing like This is again, like he can't they he can't process reaction, right? And so, he doesn't know like what's the reaction of being a jerk to our allies for a year, right? It is It is that >> certainly aren't standing for >> Exactly. Exactly, right? And And so, it's it's just it's uh it's it's shameful. And I you know, and one of the things that you see in in US media is you know, that the perspective of what is going to happen is often narrated by the national security or ideological wing, right? Or so, so it's either nuclear or, you know, existential threat people, right? And that could be on the left or the right. That could be Democrats or Republicans, but they're viewing it through the lens of that. The lens I view it through, because I work in the world of supply chain, is your homeland functioning, right? Is I mean, is is this is the disaster. >> Yeah. Well, we saw how he handled COVID with the shortage of baby food and diapers and >> And yeah. And we're hearing And we're hearing about the panic in the White House about the prices. I mean, I I mean, it's just like, you know, you know, I'm not living paycheck to paycheck, so I'll be honest there, but like my son needs to get tickets somewhere to Europe for later in the year. And I said, "Get them now." Like I'm Like get them now, because I don't KNOW WHAT THE PRICE IS GOING TO be tomorrow, you know. >> Yeah. Th- Things are going to change very rapidly. The war is expanding very rapidly. And you mentioned Lebanon, and now, you know, that that is getting an absolute pummelling also from from Israel. Iran is going to start to get help from Russia if it hasn't already. And there is some talk that Russia is starting to to support Iran in that way. And Iran has a very different type of warfare. They store all their stuff underground. They don't, you know, they It's not traditional in the sense. Do you feel that the US military, because Trump has fired an awful lot of insubordinates, you know, and getting rid of the Joint Chiefs, replacing them with a kind of MAGA loyalist? And you know, he did call in all of the military to a conference and basically say, you know, unless you're loyal, you're out. And all this I mean, it was very weird. It was very totalitarian. And you know, we we know that the military are supposed to only operate under legal orders, but they're never really going to break ranks, let's be honest. I never thought that the Americans would be praying for a military coup in their own country, but it seems that that's kind of where it's at. And so, you know, this stuff is going on. It's costing an absolute fortune. The debt and the deficit is already through the roof. Is there a sense that the there is a huge lack of intelligence and planning? Because, you know, the the analysts have >> Anybody who questions Trump or Hekseth, they get fired. The lawyers have been fired. Anybody who is a check and a balance on these types of decision-making are out. And and it just does seem that this whole operation is so chaotic. >> Yeah. >> That it probably just does come down to Trump being bullied by Netanyahu and Hekseth, who, you know, is an alpha and is desperate, you know, with this toxic masculinity to kind of go bomb stuff. >> Yeah. >> That it's as simple as that. They they really have just got into something and they don't really know how to get out of it. >> Yeah. I mean, I think that I think like separating the White House decision-making process and what is going on is important. So, I So, how I think about it is I think you're absolutely right that the the another story behind this war is the story of Dodge. Um and Dodge can mean a lot of things, but it's basically the gutting out of competency >> Yeah. >> within our federal government. I think the best example of that is is the State Department. It's It's It's one thing not to be ready, but you I mean, I've been There were whole offices that existed for the sole function of protecting American citizens that found themselves at war, civil war, for a new or a natural disaster. Those were completely gutted out. It It was telling to me that the State Department, despite three, four days of bad press, could not get a plane moving >> Yes. >> for three or four years. Cuz it's hard and you got to get the plane, you got to figure out where they're going to take them. >> Right. So so the repatriation was a disaster. >> And I think part of that that delay was because when you turn the on switch, you know, it's bad enough they didn't they didn't prepare before, but even when they knew they had to do it, you turn the switch on and no one's there. The room is empty. So part of that I think is exactly right. That gutting out for ideological or fake financial reasons which we know is was a a total total joke of of competency at the level of how do you make something work. >> And replacing quite a lot of it with AI, we should say. >> Yeah, exactly. Right. And then that's the the big mistake. The military part is is I It's it's hard and I'll be I'm just going to be honest. I part piece of pieces There's a a lot of evidence and I think when we when we look back that the military, at least through the Joint Chiefs, was absolutely trying to make it clear that this was not going to be a one-day war, right? And we saw those leaks before. We saw the the the growing um we saw I think the Chief of Staff to the Joint Chiefs got fired because he had been very very critical of it. So I do think that there were people within the military I who were trying to do it. The the killing of the school children it was incompetency. I'm going to put that aside, not cuz I think it's right, but I don't think that's the equivalent of of like My Lai My Lai, of of um I'm now having a senior moment in Vietnam. I don't think it's the equivalent of like, you know, that I think I think a major mistake happened and we have to figure out what happened. The story that's starting to worry me a little bit more on this sort of is is is is you know are people behaving in a way that we would expect them to behave? There's a story coming out of India with the uh the um submarine um uh US submarine bringing down an Iranian ship that we now understand, at least from the reporting it seems pretty correct, that it was for some sort of multinational event or training uh that the that the boat was not armed, >> Yes, it was in international waters though. >> that the submarine waited for it to come into international waters and then left them to die. Now, I don't know what the guys in the submarine knew. So, part of this is I I do want to find out. I don't want to be just like, you know, whatever. So, what did they know that they were doing as compared to what did the Pentagon know? Cuz this isn't easy kill, right? And I I you know, my worst-case scenario is the sub people were told this is an armed vessel leaving India to go to the Persian Gulf to kill your to kill your your colleagues, get it? They do it and now they're they're they're waking up to headlines that say it was unarmed and it was there for some essentially a display. Um and you didn't save the guys, right? Which is normal stuff. >> And Hexeth boasted that it was the first vessel to be shot with a torpedo since the Second World War. >> Big deal. I mean, this is the other thing is like I mean, the the the the the day-to-day, you know, the sort of fascination with weaponry as a sign of strategy is like pathetic. This That was an easy kill. And I might you know, give my kid a submarine and a and a ship that doesn't know what that it's there and I'm sure they don't know it's there and and I you figure it out in 10 minutes. >> Did it not remind you though of the the strikes on these fish fishing boats in the Caribbean Sea? >> are these Yeah, these are these are not impressive. Like, if you want to impress me, you know, like, you know, get the Martians or something. But like, these are not impressive. But, you know, our the media loves an impressive Tik Tok. I will say, I am, you know, looking across the spectrum of of at least television and whatever, I would say, if I were the White House, I'd be panicked. It's it's the story is not >> like they're panicked, doesn't it though? >> I mean, I mean, because the story is is yes, this you know, this supreme leader is now replaced. All accounts so far is that the that the regime has held. We They're They're getting bombarded, but we don't know, you know, we don't have all the details of that. They're still able to exert I mean, we're on day What are we? Day six? We're >> I think we're on day nine, and Trump initially said it would be, you know, brief, then they said it would be three to four weeks, then four to five weeks, and now they're talking up to six weeks. >> Yeah, yes, and yeah, that that will be six months in like no time. But like like that, you know, that that that we have not We have a navy. The Do you know what the navy's uh like a tagline is? Uh we protect uh uh uh we protect the world's open oceans. >> Right. >> How are we not able to get a two-mile freaking little canal open to begin commerce? And I think part of that was we never thought that the Iranians would do it. Once again, countries have agency. Uh Cuba is going to be a great example. What's our mass migrate I I I hope a reporter asks this. It's not enough to say, you know, do we kill the leadership of Cuba? I'm pretty convinced that Trump thinks that Castro the Castro brother, is still in charge. And there's no Castros in charge of Cuba anymore. What's our mass migration plan? Because if you're a Cuban and this is happening, you are just a couple miles from Florida. This is your chance. Do we have a mass migration plan? I am you are inviting me back on the day after Cuba because you and I are going to sit here and I was like, they didn't have a mass migration plan. >> Right. Right. I mean, you know, the the what we're seeing now in in Gulf nations >> Yeah. >> and obviously, you know, there is a there is a a significant military that is the UAE effectively that that kind of polices most of these nations, but Dubai has taken fire. Uh you know, a hotel was set alight by a by a drone. Um and we're now looking at the Kurds even getting involved. And and and Kurdistan doesn't want to have anything to do with it necessarily, but are being drawn in through allegiance. >> Yes. >> And then so once you've got places that, you know, try to appear civilized. And and Dubai and the UAE have obviously done a huge marketing effort over the last 25 years so that they are free from conflict and that they are far from conflict and that they are cosmopolitan and metropolitan and >> They're not Lebanon. They're not Lebanon. >> Lebanon. >> And now and now and now >> And and so that that veil is slipping because they're now on the receiving end of a bombardment of of weaponry from Iran. That this is going to change not just the food supply and the oil supply, but it's going to change the world economy also because these regions are safe haven for for expats and people that want to, you know, kind of start over. And and and it's it's going to be very problematic to kind of rewrite the narrative or maintain the narrative if you're that close to conflict. >> you're absolutely right. I mean, I I wrote that the um you know, that that uh uh that that this war ends uh quickly if and I I believe it to be true if the Gulf nations love their money more than they hate Iran. Right? That that the pressure and you're you're already seeing it. I I I can't believe that I still see people on TV like not even acknowledging like that whatever the Gulf states wanted before this is was not and I don't believe that they wanted this that um that that you know, them starting to push back to reassess some of their investments in the United States uh their oil refineries, their their um the are being um uh hit by uh uh uh Iranian missiles. There the the their commerce is all impacted and exactly what you said, the 30 years that they have built up of goodwill and a place of capital uh that your capital would be protected is right. And now what you're seeing is of course, you're already seeing it in the financial markets is is is um is a move to uh to Asia uh which isn't good for diversification. So, I mean, I I've been to Dubai I mean, I I've been to the Gulf a dozen a dozen times now. Um and uh it makes me sad too because I do think that they were trying and I think that window is still open. I think, you know, I I think if people start to starve to death in Dubai, uh then you're going to have a different a different scenario, but I I think some of the panic in the White House isn't just simply domestic prices, but it is um what they're seeing in the media, what you and I are seeing, and I urge viewers and listeners like open your lens to like, you know, what is coming out of uh of of of Arab and and Gulf newspapers, you know, it's really easy to find now. Um the their assessment of what's going on is just very different than what you're seeing on you know, with the with the strikes. There's a There's a There's a different war going on. >> Well, the the the the propaganda out of the White House has been turned up to 11 in in the last few days. I mean, they put out a video of >> Oh god. >> Tom Cruise flying, you know, and and all of these superheroes. I'm sure the actors involved are going to want to have their names taken off of that straight away. I'm sure they used these clips without any permission. But, it it was a joke of a video that tried to show a kind of American might intercut with clips of Pete Hegseth >> Yeah. >> being being being um uh >> angry >> extra masculine. >> Yeah. >> Um in a in an ill-fitting suit. Um and what that suggests to me is that Trump still thinks that he is on a reality TV show. >> Yeah. >> Hegseth is an actor playing the part of the defense secretary. Rubio is mostly ineffective and just cleans up both of their messes by having to >> And J.D. Vance doesn't exist. Did he die? Where is he? >> J.D. Vance is a is a mirage, and so >> Well, where is he? That was ridiculous. >> Right. So, well, he's He's waiting for the for the furor to fall so he can step in, I guess, you know, he's he's playing that role. But, so what we've really got here is people that you know, they think it's like playing >> Yeah. >> Mortal Kombat or some kind of computer game where it's all super fun, but there is no empathy because of their narcissistic personality disorder. So, they don't flinch when 165 kids get murdered. They don't flinch when there's this huge kind of mass exodus of of tens of thousands of people out of Tehran. They they don't you know, where are these people going to go? And who's going to absorb them? And what what are the what are the plans? Nothing it seems has been learned from Iraq or Afghanistan. And so they are just not living in reality. For me, that's the most dangerous part of this is that we're talking about you know, you can you can have your own opinion as to whether America has fallen to a dictatorship. >> Yes. >> But we've definitely fallen to insanity and and an an insane despot >> Yeah. >> who who has no empathy for the consequences. >> I I think that's always been true of Trump. I mean, I think it's just it's you know, I I just he's I mean, I mean, you you go back to God, I remember I was thinking the other day I had not thought about it while I remember when he um uh criticized the the father of the Muslim soldier who had been killed. Remember that in the in the in the convention? Like you just think like this is someone who's like the exactly that the sense of responsibility and empathy that comes from just being a human being, let alone >> Yeah. Or even a parent. I mean, the way he talks about his own kids. >> Right. No, no, I sometimes I'll say like these are the like the the nastiest you know, the nastiest people ever to be in the White House. And then I'm like these are the I don't these aren't just the nastiest people one will ever encounter in their lives. Like we don't encounter the lack of empathy in our day-to-days. That's maybe that gives me hope about America that Americans Americans are generally better than this stuff. But I do think look, I mean, that's where um you know, as he becomes more desperate for the narrative, for the quick exit, you know, it's not surprising to me that he's already moved on to Cuba. I I view that as both horrifying, but also maybe maybe we will get this quicker exit out of this what's a what's a a regional war. I remember the the the the best description of Trump that I ever read was to Trump there is no yesterday and there is no tomorrow. And I thought I mean in terms of in terms of national security, there's nothing to be learned from the past. How will you know, the Iraq war, they are the the the the the the what the Iranians would do, what Netanyahu had already done to us. >> There's no muscle memory for any of that. >> and there's no consequences, right? So it's just it's like a it's like a, you know, it's a it's childish. So and he does have he does have a staff that sort of promotes promotes that or they go into hiding when they know they can't uh control it. And >> Right. >> um and the Democrats are, you know, I I think I I will say I thought I think the Democratic Senator the Senators in in the Democratic Party, their messaging has been pretty good. I I think it you know, I was getting frustrated with the sort of focus on the legal aspects. I was like either this is right or wrong and just man up and say it. I think now it's you know, now they they sort of are seeing what's happening and they're getting out there. But this I the the the the the the Democrats in particular that that couldn't have the guts to to just assert the War Powers Act as we had Republican votes um in it. Like I'm not quite getting that. Like I'm like what world are you living in? Not just where your base is and where the electorate is, but like you can't possibly think that this is is like the Supreme Court with their opinion. They can't possibly think giving this person more authority is a is a good thing. And I think for my colleagues in the national security arena who tend, you know, they don't like to get as personal as I do. But I think they, you know, those who who have wanted some sort of reckoning for Iran for a variety of reasons. Um and you see them, you know, they they Like I I think it's very shameful to separate the the the sort of military cause or the national security cause from the commander in chief. >> Yeah. >> Like what makes you think in this one instance they're going to do it right? Is it because you hate Iran so much? Is it because you're so pro-Israel? Well, then just say it. But like the idea that in this one thing, Trump, you know, we we got to give him the benefit of the doubt. Or I was like, I I I I don't see that. I mean, and and I think the proof is in the pudding, you know, I of how the White House is behaving right now. >> But my my fear is that he won't stop at one. >> Yeah. >> That as you say, he'll do this and he will enjoy all of the attention cuz remember the negative he lives off of the negativity. He thrives off of it. You know, he's so empty that that even criticism gives him some kind of life force because at least they're saying his name. >> Yeah. >> And that's all he really wants. And so my fear is that he will continue this bombardment of of Iran. There will be wider consequences with former allies falling out with the US even further than they have been. He'll then do Cuba as well and then he'll get a taste for the rest of South America. And and and and then Canada will be in for it because he it's all about hemispheres. And that's where you have to look to the board of peace and see what that's all about. And these are just business deals. This is a way to profit and he wants to own the Western Hemisphere. That's his jurisdiction. >> that he but like what's interesting though is that the fact that he doesn't do follow through, right, means that these efforts are are just like just like this moment in time in which he's disruptive for disruptive sake. And as you said, I think that's exactly right that the attention and you know, there were people who think well, then now we're not talking about Epstein and stuff like I think that's right that the attention is on this Cuba Cuba is next. I don't I mean and I didn't doubt that we were going to go to I mean you you know, over the last 3 months we put about 80% of our military assets in the Persian Gulf. Like we were going to war. Whereas this was this >> Yeah, he called it an armada. >> Right, I was saying this wasn't to give Jared Kushner, you know, extra umph in his great negotiations. I mean the guy lie I at best the guy lied to his father-in-law about what the Iranians were doing. At worst, he's such an idiot he didn't know what the negotiations were like. I mean that's those are your only two options at this stage, right? >> I happen to think the negotiations were just a distraction. I don't think they were ever real. >> No, I mean I think and and and so um so I think you know, we take the president at his word. >> Yeah. >> Um and I think I think I think Cuba is next. >> Okay. The irony is they're now asking Zelensky to help them fight off the drones. >> Because because yeah, because um like we couldn't have thought of that before. Once again, there's no there's no yesterday for these people. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay, we have to take a quick break, but we're going to come back and talk about the DHS as Kristi Noem is out, but could her replacement be worse? We'll do that next here on the weekend show. Cold days, big goals, and honestly, no time to cook. I've definitely had weeks where I want to eat healthy, but the planning, grocery shopping, and cooking just isn't happening. That's why I've been loving Factor. Fully prepared meals designed by dieticians and crafted by chefs so you can eat well without the stress. One of my favorite meals lately is their Mediterranean style chicken with roasted veggies. It's perfect when my schedule's packed cuz it's got lean protein, colorful vegetables, and whole food ingredients that actually leave you feeling full instead of sluggish. Factor focuses on quality functional ingredients. Think lean proteins, healthy fats, and real veggies with no refined sugars, no artificial sweeteners, and no refined seed oils. 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Let's talk first about Kristi Noem because there are questions as to why she was removed when she was removed. I mean she was making a speech elsewhere when Trump made the announcement and clearly didn't know herself. My feeling is this all kind of kicked off off the back of the hearing the Senate and the congressional hearings that she was involved with where she was royally humiliated by by Democrats and she really landed Trump in it when she said that Trump had agreed that she could spend $220 million on an advertising campaign. That seems to be the focus of where the media has gone with the explanation for it. I'm not so sure and I'm kind of keen for your theory. To me it's more about the the bidding for the contract for the you know the the production company >> That's what I think. >> and a kind of fraud potential fraud there that they just did not want to get into because that would really show them with their hands in in the in the cookie jar. >> I think that's exactly right. I mean I think so basically there were 200 million plus no bid contracts that went out for two different purposes. One was to get more people to work for ICE and the other was for an ad campaign and and the ties to her network her Republican network and her you know I think clearly her lover or someone, you know, whatever the relationship is between her and Corey Lewandowski, the purported chief of staff. >> Yeah. >> Um >> He's been fired as well now. He's been fired. >> has been well reported. Um >> Yeah. >> Their relationship um and how they were steering money to family and friends of massive sums of money in no-bid contracts, which which they think the White House knows that if the Democrats take control of the house, this this will be a criminal I mean this this this is this is something I mean if I had that money in hand, I don't know if I would spend it right now cuz I'd be a little bit worried about whether I had to give it back cuz it could be canceled under House Democrats. So I think that I think you're right I think that that piece of the absolute corruption that was our was so clearly exposed by good reporting just became just really hard for the White House to sustain cuz it wasn't one of their own people. Like they could do that for Jared, they could do it for Whitkoff, but that that it was just hard to do for a cabinet secretary. But I will say a couple other things that you know, she was dead woman walking for a long time. Part of that was her um making it clear that, you know, she viewed this as a stepping stone to something higher and using that position in the oddest way performative way in terms of, you know, wearing the CBP outfit and being armed and being on a boat and these pictures and the and the and the Botox and the fillers and the the whole thing um was um was more performative than Trump and that's the one thing you can't do. Um that and so I think that there and then and then you had her complete fumbling um out of um out of the the killing of the two Americans calling them domestic terrorists essentially and then having to unwind that so that that became the story as much as the fact that we could all of it. I will say you know I had so I have fewer friends at DHS I like There is not a single person except for possibly Corey Lewandowski who is upset by this and I mean that every agency had gone to her they were abusive they were horrible they focused only on like you know what was the you know what was the what were her what was her com strategy so no one is going to is going to miss her and but I do think that the White House pulling the plug that quickly was was in direct relation to I think just like when you when you hear the story of that corruption uh being told and she implicated the White House you just you got to sever her. >> Yeah well it's an gives them an out which is that well the moment we heard about that we fired her and but I I was of the opinion that she wasn't going to be fired and I agree with you that she you know she was upstaging the star too much and and and that you know performance wise that's obviously a mistake but you know she was very loyal to Trump and it does seem that loyalty really goes further than anything else so yes you can be you can behave in the most abhorrent ways but as long as you are completely loyal to to the commander-in-chief then you can kind of get away with it and so you know I was actually surprised when she was fired. >> Yeah I would put a little bit of a wrinkle on that that might help explain it which is she was very loyal to Stephen Miller. on not knowing that Stephen Miller is only loyal to himself. So, I have no doubt that as things started to get bad on immigration in particular, as the polling started to plummet on his signature issue, uh why is Steve Miller still standing? And my guess is, you know, he had he she you know, it was him that was feeding her all of this stuff about domestic terrorism. It was him who was pushing these raids. It was him who was He Stephen Miller is on a phone call with CBP and ICE telling that, you know, we got to meet these quotas, whatever. >> Right. >> She thought that Stephen if she were loyal to Miller, that would be enough. And what she once again, you know, do your homework, people. The first Trump administration, right? Um uh Stephen Miller did the same thing to to the DHS the second DHS uh secretary, whose name I'm forgetting, Kiersten something. Um >> Yes. >> uh and um and so that's what that's where I think it's different. I don't think I don't think I don't think that being loyal to Stephen Miller matters to Stephen Miller. >> Yeah. The the other angle, aside from immigration, we'll talk about that in just a moment, is FEMA, of course, because that came under her jurisdiction as well. And she didn't seem to care for dealing with the aftermath of natural disasters. >> That's right. And she >> And and that is in a country like the US, which is so vast and has varying climates and and and different issues to contend with. To kind of lose that, I mean, was that dodge or was that her? Because there's clearly a an evil within her. And and the thing for me that connects a lot of these characters that we've described is that they actually want people to die. The the the the poor are not worthy, and the people of color are not worthy. >> true. I I will say I think Oh, I would one of it is that the most of them have lack an empathy gene. So, they I think the other is I don't know if it if one I would put it to I think Um I think that that they don't view government's responsibility to protect people from dying. >> Yes. >> So, it's not like they want people to die. It's just like, why is that my problem? And this >> But that's a Christian nationalist thing as well, though, isn't >> the Democrats like Democrats need to tell Yeah, this is what we didn't do is tell the American public why government matters. It matters cuz you don't want to leave uh you know, a couple thousand Americans stranded in a war zone. It matters because you want to be able to deliver resources that um during a hurricane. That The person I think who does and I I don't think he would deny it have a sort of you know, the sort of you know, >> >> wheat from the chaff attitude about the human species is of course Kennedy. I mean, I think when I hear him speak that he strikes me as someone who um you know, if people people who need help are are lesser so that their demise >> Yes. >> is not is not uh worthy of stopping. >> Right. >> Anything preventative, right? So, this is I mean, I think this is a vaccines, right? If he can survive you know, sniffing cocaine off a toilet bowl, >> Yeah. >> why can't you? >> Well, I like the fact that he uses himself as a perfect example of somebody who did no harm to meanwhile he's the most compromise individual. >> Yes. >> But you could argue that Dr. Oz is similar. You know, these people have been selling miracle cures on TV for years and never really caring about the consequences, you know, whether it's >> afraid. >> horse dewormers and for COVID or anything. I mean, you have to be there has to be a kind of evil streak in you to think that you're doing good through of >> of empathy. I think there's also like I do I mean one is I don't think many of them are that sophisticated so you probably like you just you know they're they're you know they're it's like oh this is like they're they're not they're not critical in a way that you would want your leadership uh to be but I don't >> comes first. >> Yeah and I think I think some of them are mentally unstable like I think our nominee for surgeon general I think I think she's not right in the head and I think you know and I think you know some of them are um are um you know are on drugs. I mean there's no question about it. Do you see I mean you look at uh I I won't say any names but I mean there there the behavior is behavior of people on speed on various drugs on whatever and most of them don't hide it. I mean at least Kennedy doesn't so >> But what's the effect of that? But yeah. >> um that are but I think it comes from the top which is you have a president that has no empathy and it's the hardest I mean he's got a lot of problems but ultimately he just doesn't care. >> Well it it occurred to me because you know we all spend our time trying to analyze these individuals and work out you know what they must be thinking and and it's very difficult when you deal with insanity to try and negotiate with it or or make sense of it unless you're a psychiatrist. But it occurred to me that what does connect them all aside from this lack of empathy is that they are almost like a um a crime family like a criminal fraternity. >> Yeah. >> And and on every level whether it's selling miracle cures that don't do anything you know placebos on television through to telling people that you can't take a vaccine for measles and then seeing an outbreak or whether it be you know the killing of 165 girls in a school and feeling nothing and not changing your policy based on that alone. >> Yeah. >> Or the kidnapping of people despite there being video evidence of people being snatched and grabbed off the street, bundled into unmarked vehicles, and then the line in the sand for me was the the the killing in cold blood of two American citizens on video and still lying about it. >> Still. >> Does that not just mean that if all heads of all of these departments are all so compromised that the one thing that connects them is that they are all at heart criminals and they are now in charge? >> Yeah, I mean so some of them are criminal behavior. Like there's no question about it and I think if you're Noem, you're nervous right now. I mean, I don't know it's not going to happen under this DOJ, but I I mean, yeah. I mean, unlawful behavior, criminal behavior, outside authority behavior, careless behavior. Name You you pick it. These are people most of them The difference between Trump Trump 1.0 and Trump 2.0 is really what People have to remember is this group of people minus I think minus Rubio and the and Bessant, the Treasury Secretary. Almost every one of them The rest of them, it's true, had flatlined in their career. >> Right. >> They could have This is to the you know, like they could have never imagined that I am going to be this I'm going to be the Secretary of Homeland Security. >> Yeah. >> Kristi Noem was selling dental products. >> Yes. >> When she So part of this is that, you know, they'll do anything because there's nothing else. Right? There's nothing else for these >> But you have to be a certain type of person to accept the job when you are entirely unqualified. >> I I I >> I wouldn't do it. >> like I literally I'm like you know, I'll get imposter syndrome about something. I'm like, what the Like, I was sorry for the French, but like, I'm literally like, what I I I I I I What the the these people can be X, Y, or Z, right? If a If a 22-year-old intern can run or 24-year-old former gardener can run uh the terrorism center at the at DHS, like, I I shouldn't worry about my qualifications. >> But the the reality is they're not running it. Cash Patel is not really running the FBI, and Kristi Noem was not really running the the DHS. These people are figureheads. They love the camera, and they love the TV, but really they're just part of a crime syndicate that that is this that is this federal government. And that just goes to me goes back to Project 2025. It's the It's the deconstruction of the state by putting imbeciles in senior positions. >> That is why we have to tell I mean, I hate to say it, but I mean, it is like, you know, people are going to people are realizing, and they will soon realize that competent government does matter, right? And that's the story that that uh we failed to tell. I will I will tell you I think Pam Bondi is in charge of DOJ, though. I think When you say like like I I I agree, I think there's two types. Like, I think that But I think Bondi, wow. Wow. She runs that place. >> But does does Bondi not also I mean, to me she is a a a kind of identikit version of of Kristi Noem in as much as it's very performative, but arguably, she's entirely unqualified for that job. She sounds like a a kind of teenager. >> changed. I mean, I I've known I've known Bondi a while. I mean, she was always conservative. She was always a very conservative AG. But I I Like, when I saw her testify recently, I thought, well, you know, maybe you're right. Like, maybe they get in this and then you're just absorbing. You have to talk this way. You have to be this way. >> she testified, she was going on and on about the about Wall Street and talking about >> was the start. >> you know, the >> Yeah. Because you you just I mean, you're you're Yeah, I think I think that I think I think you whatever you might have had different from this, once you go in, I mean, look at Bessen. I mean, everyone was saying, "Oh, he's got this great background and blah blah blah." I mean, the guy >> appalling. >> Yeah. >> It's so interesting to me, isn't it? Because as you say, the Republican and the conservative thinking is small government, small government, small government. But, it's fine to have small government if it's competent. But, here there is obviously a clear desire to screw everything up and burn everything down. And so, it it and and then in the only way to really do that for Trump is just to have loyalists in every senior position. So, if there's no separation now between the executive and the Department of Justice, she clearly was his personal lawyer, still is his personal lawyer. The guy under her, arguably, Todd Blanche, was his personal lawyer as well, is actually doing more of the work than Pam Bondi is. And then we've heard that from many sources. So, if you don't have an authority to keep checks on the executive, she was screaming, you know, "Donald Trump is the greatest president America has ever I mean, while she's giving evidence. >> Yeah. >> Can you imagine if if Merrick Garland had started screaming that about Joe Biden? >> it's just it's it's incomprehensible that you know, that like it and and I you know, people are always like, well, you know, how will how you know, you know, how do you fix this? I mean, I don't know. I mean, I think we're going to have to figure out like you know what's left, what does it mean, where are we 3 years from now if if if if this group comes gets out, how wildly you know, how wildly unpopular is it and you know, and and and also thinking about allies like I think about you mentioned FEMA. I forgot to mention this but like why does FEMA still exist, right? Cuz they were going to they were going to end it. >> Yeah. >> So thinking you know, it was because of Republican governors and you can and moan all you want about the GOP but figuring out ways in which there is you know, sort of a common bond. So it was Republican governors who called the White House and said no way are you getting rid of FEMA cuz it's our states. >> Yes. >> Right, you can be mad at Newsom for a fire but it's our states that are getting hit left and right. Oklahoma, Louisiana, Florida. So I mean it's but it's it is it's it's whack-a-mole. It's it's not there it's it's whack-a-mole but I do urge people to remember like the whack-a-mole has kept him at 40% or below. So however painful and tiring it is like I remember people are going to be mad at me cuz I'm going to I'm going to quote Schumer who I know a lot of people don't like but I saw Schumer at the beginning I saw him give a podcast like at the beginning of the of the first administration and he said what's the strategy? Someone said he's like look, I don't we don't have the house, we don't have the Senate, we don't have the White House. We don't have the court essentially although there's pieces of the court that we do have now and he said 40% or lower. That's the strategy for the first 2 years. And if you measure by that, right? Like okay, like that's that's a metric at least cuz it's not you can't you can't think success now is like good. I don't mean to be negative. It is you know, I'm in disaster management. So it's it's it's less bad, right? And so in some ways what's less bad is this is wildly unpopular. That's going to translate >> Right. >> in some ways. So immigration, it's translating. We're about to We're about you know, look look who the biggest critic is of the immigration overreach. It's it's Oklahoma Governor Stitt. You know, it is it is it is you know, you can hate his politics or whatever, but I'm glad he's on our side. >> So let's talk about the midterms finally because this is where it all either gets cleaned up or we're stuck with it for for you know, at least a couple more years. My my concern is that the reason that Trump has checked out of of trying to kind of be be a populist is because he feels like the midterms are sewn up for him already that that that he's done his due diligence in the legislatures and in the districts and whether it be voter roll purging, whether it be you know, changing the rules on voting. >> Yeah. >> Voter suppression. I mean, there are multiple ways now that they plan to fix the election. And so is that the reason why he's checked out or is it simply that whatever the results are, he is going to decertify them? >> He does not care about the party. He does not care. He's not ideological. So I I worry about the election. I want to make people feel a little bit like, you know, not better cuz I do think it's going to cause be be vigilant and stuff. You know, these numbers that we're seeing now, it's too big to steal at this stage. And all we need to focus on is keeping up those numbers, right? Don't you know, and and Texas is now going to be in play because like so but one of the benefits on election for us is the distributive nature of our I did election security, right? So, so we have over 3,000 jurisdictions of voting in a country with only 50 states. So, like you can it's so distributed. And um and that doesn't mean like they can't flip a switch or pull out the National Guard. I I I I I understand that. They're I think courts are going to step in the way. I think AGs are are getting ready. But I do think that you can view his behavior as he he thinks the fix is in for him. You can Sorry, that was weird. You can also view his behavior as he knows he's going to lose. And this is and he is this is going to be scorched earth forever, right? And I I I I don't I don't know yet. I don't know yet. Um but I do like >> big to rig thing is very interesting cuz that's a Trump phrase that that he kind of used as projection last time around. But this time around, what you're saying is that if there is enough turnout and that if there are enough people opposing the war, which might come back to bite Donald Trump, aside from the immigration, which was the thing that already had turned half the people off of him, that it's basically too big for Trump to rig even though he has all of these policies in place now and potentially he's in charge of the technology, you know, with the Dominion voting systems and everything else, that he won't step up his authority and say as the president, I will not allow these to be certified because we're you know, there's a war on and you know, and and use the kind of >> Well, I mean I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I I sort of pushes at he he definitely could try. But but there's I I'm not going to go on I am going on the record. The idea that a war abroad would justify the would I the even this Supreme Court would view as an as as as an all and off switch to the Constitution and to democracy is I think I think I want to tell you I think spend your energy elsewhere. Like in other words, your energy is don't look for the perfect candidate, get a bunch of D's in, tell all your friends to vote. Don't don't like, you know, don't don't fight your friends, fight your enemies. It's like we waste so much energy on all of this stuff where again, wake up every morning and say, "How can I keep him below 40%?" >> Yeah. >> Um >> Interesting. >> Right? To control 80% Again, just remind people. I'd be, you know, packing up if he were at 80%. It's a lot. >> not shocked though that he's in the mid-to-late 30s? I mean, I've said this before, >> I think I think I think it's I think he's in mid-30s, but I think, you know, I think he's lower than that. I think it's just very hard for some >> still talking about 70-odd million Americans. Where do those people go? What happens to those people? >> Where did Where did Where did all the Germans who, I mean, populations shift with the winds. And and and Where did all, you know, What What did What did um What did uh uh Um What was his name? Botha in in South Africa said in 20 years no one would have ever supported apartheid. Like Like populations shift. We voted for Biden 4 years ago. We voted for Obama 12 and 16 years ago. Like the the populations shift. And but it's incumbent on us not to you know to to to tell the story in a way that is I mean I'm obviously you know I'm I'm I'm you know we may differ on certain things about enforcement or whatever but like you know a focus on making sure well-meaning people want to stay focused on it and that's you know and that is and and and it's 40% that's that's that's what you focus on every day. >> Okay. I'm so grateful to you. Thank you very much for joining us Juliet Kayyem. >> My fun my pleasure and fun. >> I'm Anthony Davis. Don't forget to support me and independent journalism at patreon.com/5minutenews or on my Substack The Anthony Davis. >> >> You can also join the 5-minute news YouTube channel. I'll come back next Sunday with a brand new special guest and more factual news to discuss on the 5-minute news weekend show with Midas Touch.