So great to have you here today. >> Can you tell us what you do? >> Awesome. So I'm actually rupelia. Um my background is built and exited various companies but at the moment focusing on bridge as you can see here. Um bridge AI is a generative AI consultancy and venture builder. So we help non- tech founders build AI and emerging tech enabled startups or larger enterprise adopt uh AI properly. >> You you told me as well that bridges kind of grown to about 30 people now as well in like a couple of years. Like tell me about that growth journey. Yeah. So, we kind of got into this space because for me personally, I'm very passionate about enabling entrepreneurship, right? And for us, it was about scaling purpose because I realized as emerging tech picked up pace so quickly over the last few years, so many people are going to get left behind. Hence the name bridge, right? We helped them cross the bridge. And my business partner Sachin was the youngest consultant at Accenture globally across data science and AI. So, when you looked at our skill sets together, it was how do we bring that together to help scale purpose? And that's kind of our core belief set and help people cross that bridge. Um so yeah, we've grown very quickly over the last couple of years across startups and enterprise teams now about 30 across uh engineering uh data science venture leads and so on and so forth. Um and that's across India, Dubai, Nigeria, Canada and the UK. Um and it's just been a really really interesting journey because we learned so much in the process and help people understand emerging tech properly which is fantastic. having that kind of global workforce as well. What's behind that? Why did you go for that strategy? >> Yeah, good question. Most people think I save loads of money by going to India, but it's actually not the case to be honest. I for us it was about finding the right talent. So, if we could find the right people, even if we're paying effectively UK equivalent rates, to be honest, we were just getting much better um work ethic, response, uh intelligent workforce, and people with incredible experience, right? Um, so the goal was to try and diversify in terms of thought process, culture, experience and now it's allowed us to kind of broaden our horizon. So we're now building products for the Indian market, for the Dubai market, for example, for the UK market because we have the different perspectives. Uh, which is really nice to have. >> You said about some of the challenges there as well that's been on the journey like tell me about that. What's been harder than you thought it was going to be? >> Good question. I think with Bridge specifically, I think it's been trying to understand. So we've been trying to focus on like I said non-technical founders and help them scale that purpose and enable that right. Um, but I think as the world has changed so quickly, most people are forgetting or not realizing that actually building something, whether it's lovable or anything else and base 44 and so on and so forth, it's becoming a bit easier to bring that vision to reality, but actually going from reality to scaled infrastructure, something that you can put out into the market, understand how you're building, why you're building, what you're actually building. Is there a product market fit? Do you understand your consumers? Do you have distribution channels? All of those things I think people are under underestimating massively. So we've had to shift our focus a little bit away from just tech and actually understand just really start with why right so actually going back to you know Synx principles and going actually why are you building this? What problem do you feel you're solving? Is it enough of a problem to solve? So um that's been quite challenging in in uh in building along that journey and keeping up with where the world is going. Um but as long as we're a few steps ahead you know we want to bring as many people on that journey as we can. Isn't so I used to be like a tech consultant for like years right so I did all the CRM the back end you have to get the rest requirements you have to do d like infrastructure database all that kind of stuff and it's like you said when people sometimes you look on LinkedIn right and everyone's like oh yeah I built this thing in like 5 minutes it's like >> yeah but that will break in like >> like this edge case that edge case and it's like as you said it's it's now very easy to get something which is decent it's like a junior could build it right but then that was never the problem in the first place right it's always easy to build >> if you knew what you were doing in terms of computer science or like that, you could build something fairly good in that time. You might be able to get to fairly good quicker. >> Yeah. >> But in terms of the business, fairly good doesn't really cut it, right? Like you've got to be the best in class for whatever you're trying to solve. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's the interesting thing that I think is difficult for people who are listening maybe who are at the early stages. You're seeing all stuff on LinkedIn like, "Oh, I built this like Asian. I built this thing." It's like, but does it hold up? And when you're talking to people, how are you finding the attitudes? Are people understanding that or is it something where they're like, "Oh no, I built this thing in 5 minutes and people going to pay like hundreds of thousands for it." >> Yeah, good question. We we've had a lot of Yeah, we've had a lot of those experiences and to be honest all around I think it's fantastic. I think it's a great thing. I think people because I'm a non-technical founder and in my previous businesses, you know, I've built and exited. I've you know in my first company I had started at 17 um and I went through probably about six different dev teams all across the world and by the time the seventh dev team tried to jump onto my code base they were like this is horrible we're not touching it because we're scared everything's going to break. So having been through that process that's as for me that's why I thought so passionately about doing this. If I had the opportunity back then to use these tools it was it's amazing right because I think it's so great for again bridging that gap of understanding between what's in your head and getting that onto paper. at the moment that's about it I think. >> Um whereas like you said when people are conflating ah this is my vision on paper to this is my enterprisegrade product it's not right um everything from you know security to again scalability is a problem. So I think it's great in terms of democratizing access to people going right I'm going to go and play around in a few hours I've got my vision on paper but really work with professionals you work with people who understand what you're trying to do and why to make sure they build the strong foundation right otherwise it's a you know you're building house of cards right so that's the only problem >> yeah and the thing is like AI is really like making it easy to start and it does like there are a lot of people who just won't get started because they don't how do you buy a dev team how do you do that stuff and if you can just put your vision down on deeper and then it kind of helps you in that sense. But that's not it. And it's it's hard because a lot of things I think I I see founders about how the hardest thing is starting and I kind of disagree. I think the hardest thing isn't the starting bit. It's the when the problems come in when you've got customers and how do you handle those customer problems and when customers are demanding new things and that's the bit that's sometimes difficult where is almost the fun bit. It's the easy bit. the honeymoon, right? Like building it something AI, >> but then when you've got a customer who's like actually I've had my data leak now. How do you deal with that? Right. >> And you you're building this as like one of your projects, right? So you've got different things going on. How are you juggling those different things you've got going on and what else do you have on your plate? >> Yeah. So um I think to your to your first part, I completely agree. Right. Starting is and my personal passion is is again helping people start and help helping people build. Like that's what we do as a business, right? in terms of our so we've got two sides bridge launchpad and bridge enterprise enterprise again is a little bit more transformation focused in terms of current businesses and organizations but that kind of launchpad is what we call the 0ero to one so we love that zero to one because it it's so exciting because the possibilities are endless and what we say to people now is because of AI and because of the expertise we have in the team bear in mind we do everything from fractional CTO down to the engineering team so so we genuinely see it as everything is possible like anything is possible which is a good thing and a bad thing because you got some wacky people who come to us go I want to do everything but and we said that's great and now we prioritize right so I think I agree starting is is the diff is the easy bit sorry and then I think it's as you scale that and as you like you said as you face customer problems is that resilience and tenacity right the one thing I say with anything entrepreneurship related is it's obviously it's never a silver bullet but it's like hundreds if not thousands of lead bullets right it's about the strength of those lead bullets that keep going through to get to where you need to be right so from my point of view it's about building the core foundations and scaling that and scaling a team with a real purpose focus and that's kind of how I've tried to focus on having several projects. So, you know, going back, I I built a prop tech business from 17, then the recruitment and training business, just a charity board advisory stuff. Um, and then set up one club, which is an entrepreneurs members club about 3 years ago. Um, that's become a lot more self-sufficient and very much a passion project about bringing great founders together and we run events in London and so on. A bridge of course and now pivoting also to a bit more in-person physical presence around sports and leisure space business as well. So there's a few things we're going to pick up there and like try and like >> Yeah. Yeah. Keep it a nice flow, right? But I think if we go back to actually the beginning now about the like you starting out when you did >> and like a 17-year-old you who started this business that obviously then went man to do very well. What would you like if you could like transport yourself back in time? You had the knowledge that you have today. What would you have done differently about that business if you had your like your brain today back then? >> Yeah, good question. So yeah, starting at 17 you you learn a lot and it's a very very steep learning curve and that's one thing as you'll as you probably notice I've gone into different spaces because I really enjoy that steep learning curve you know starting off within so the first business was an online estate agency scaled that to third largest in the country sold over a billion pounds worth of assets and then I kind of sold my stake by the time I was about 21 22 and you just learned so much in that journey right given that I was supposed to go and study economics and management at Oxford and you know the learning curve in just two comparables is was just insane. Um, going back I'd say actually um I think I I did the best I could in terms of that steep learning curve. Um, and some of that you kind of have to gain really through experience. Like it's very hard to be taught those things. Like you just have to go through the the kind of war stories and make those mistakes. Um, but one of them was actually to be honest partly why I set up one club and really focused on community now is was actually building a stronger network because at the time I didn't really have any contacts in the entrepreneurial world whatsoever. I was kind of born a little bit outside London and Hartford Shere. So I was kind of in my own bubble building doing what I thought was the right thing without real points of reference from others and you I don't come from an entrepreneurial family, right? So for me it was about actually if id branched out a bit sooner I think I would have learned a lot of those lessons through others and through guidance probably a bit quicker to be honest. And obviously like you said you had the steep learning curve right? What were some of those hardest lessons you were at that point of where like obviously you're scaling up you're a 17year-old and I'm guessing as you're talking to customers you're talking to like different people when they realize you're 17 you might get treated in a certain way actually. Did that actually impact you? Did people treat you differently when they realized you were young? Was it a good thing of like, oh wow, you're it's so exciting to put or like, oh, why do you think you can do this? How how do people perceive that? >> Yeah, good question. It probably happened in a couple of different ways. So when and this is kind of where I learned the biggest lesson about identity and I kind of learned it inadvertently actually. So now one of my favorite books is psychocybernetics >> which is about how you um how you identify yourself and that alignment and even some of the talks I've done TED talk and stuff was about that identity piece cuz how you see yourself is how the rest of the world sees you right and as simple as that sounds like even fundamentally the likelihood of your success or the the chance of your success is directly linked to how likely you think that success is right >> so if you extrapolate that same principle um at the time I kind of really went into investor meetings and convers especially when fundraising. That's when people were a bit bit skeptical thinking, hold on, you've not come from the property space. You've not built any tech before. You don't you don't you're not actually a coder either. Um they're trying to do all these things that so what makes you think you can come in and do it? And for me it was about disrupting the status quo from outside of the status quo. And it took me time to realize that. But when I kind of went in with the approach of actually the reason estate agency is not being disrupted by estate agents is because they all have the same experience. They all have the same baggage. It's the second most hated profession in in the country after politicians slashrecruiters. Um, and and there's a reason it's got that reputation and if no one from the industry is going to disrupt it because they've all they've all got that bad reputation and they're all carrying that status quo because that's how they make their money, right? They make their fees by having that old school way and that really helped. You know, we ended up raising a couple of million and and kind of scaling after a couple of years. So, um, that perspective, but to be honest, even my first probably 25 me 20 members of staff, 25 members of staff didn't know how old I was. And I never told them until until it was on the news. And they looked at me one day going, and at the time I think it was 19, 20. And and they kind of looked at me on there. They were like, we saw you like late 20s. You didn't tell us you're 19. I was like, there was no reason to. So, it's kind of Yeah. hidden in plain sight. And you said about growing the team as well because you said with like one club for example, have you grown a good team there and like that's how you're able to run like different projects. What is it you're looking for in those early team members to enable that to happen, right? Because obviously if you want to run multiple businesses, you want to scale different things. You've got to get the right team in place. Yeah, it's a good question. I found it quite hard because as most entrepreneurs are control freak, right? has started off just really having to kind of me I want to make sure I understand everything and and the direction and that's still the case in terms of overall strategic direction but to be honest even when we hire now whether it's in bridge or otherwise is based on attitude for the most part attitude and work ethic because most skills can and we're seeing this with AI right most skills can be learned um and this is not the kind of hard skills in terms of engineering this is kind of wider team members but a lot of those things can be picked up it's really that work ethic and attitude If you really genuinely understand our purpose around scaling purpose, making entrepreneurship accessible, helping people cross that bridge and you feel passionate about that, um that really shows in your work, right? That passion can be cultivated and if you cultivate it well, like really really makes a difference. So that's probably the main thing and work ethic because I just think building a startup as you know is is like the way I see it is like pushing a boulder up a hill, right? the early stages in any startup, you're p you're climbing a mountain, you're pushing the boulder up the hill, and you just need momentum to be able to do that. Like there's no two ways about it. You need people to be there kind of day in day out. You need to yes, have the flexibility you need and everything else, but you need to have that work ethic to be able to push that boulder because it just comes tumbling down otherwise. >> I think some people like working hard versus working smart. It's like you don't get to pick as a founder. You're working both. >> If you're working smart and your f your composition working smart and hard, you're going to lose. And it's like and I think one of the hard things too is like obviously you've been in the industry for a while. You've been an entrepreneur for a while. The way you can do things be different to something at the beginning because you're going to make better decisions because you've built that muscle, right? And it's one of the things I think about is that like I think it's extremely hard to have good balance at the beginning of a company unless you're say exited founder. So you know your systems already and as you said in your first business you made loads of mistakes but that makes you how you are today. And I always think it's an interesting dynamic and I think we also shouldn't like it's making sure in the industry of diversity and stuff like that we don't just tell people like oh yeah you can have everything you want and you can work a few hours a day and you're going to be able to build a billion dollar company when well what about all your competition what are they doing if they're working 80our weeks and you're not and then you got to get yourself to a moat right and with your moat right now obviously you just one that you've got so much experience you can hire well you can do all the things you've got that experience if you haven't got a moat yet You've got to earn the right to get a moat >> 100%. >> And how do you do that as well? Right. And how do you think you did that in the first business? Right? You said, okay, you're coming in as an outsider, but I'm sure there's other outsiders who tried to disrupt the industry, too. What do you think you did at that point that was like, okay, this is why you won compared to other people. I think to be honest, I I completely agree with that, right? I think there is the the harder you work the the greater the chance of success, right? And obviously like it it sounds very very obvious but I think when you're when you're literally running like when when I think of entrepreneurship especially in the early days you're literally running through doors you're breaking down doors and barriers and there are no side doors. There's no shortcuts like and people think there are oh let me go around the side of the house and no no no there is you have to run through the front door every single time consistently and that consistency compounds over time right and I think I realized that quite early on partly because um I was I was an amicer to my parents >> so in that process I think I learned a lot about seeing their work ethic working two jobs to put food on our table each and all the all the adversity they faced being deaf people in this world in this western country, migrating from East Africa, going through all of that, that gave me a really deep sense of gratitude and a deep sense of if they can do it, I need to do even more to be able to give back to them. Ultimately, for me, that's where the thought process around work ethic came. And then once you combine that with um the entrepreneurial approach, it was genuinely that. So, it's actually okay, yes, there's other people that outsiders that could do it, but if we're all getting on a treadmill, I will out outrun you. That is it. Like I know for a fact at 17 years old I've got nothing to lose. I've got no risk which is why I deferred and ended up giving up the university place because I've got very little risk. I'm lucky enough to have roof over my head, food on my table. Um and really deeply understanding that I literally have no risk and I have all the time in the world. >> You can't outpace me. And and look again lots of mistakes and everything else but even just that thought process meant that it was enough self-belief to at least break down the barriers. Hello. Hello. I hope you're enjoying the show so far. I'm Ami Palmer, co-founder of Bay HQ and the host of this show. For those of you who don't know, Bay HQ is the community for high growth Asian heritage founders and investors in the UK. Over 7,500 people have attended our events. 200 people have been through our impact programs and obviously it's been over 250 episodes of this podcast. If you want to join us and take part in the programs and come to the events, go to beh.com/join. We also just released our first ever book called Startups for Outsiders, which you can get on Amazon now and the link is in the bio. Hope to see you soon at event. Hope you enjoy the rest of the episode. And I've seen now like you've got more optionality, right? Because you've been through that that hard work. You now get to kind of pick and choose which type of jobs you do versus who you hire for. What is it that you enjoy the most of these different tasks you could do? >> Yeah, it varies. I think I enjoy um I enjoy working with great people. I think maybe because my first business was kind of a solo founder. So um now actually having great business partners and great team members around and everything else. It's and and you know being amongst great entrepreneurs whether it's our clients or our portfolio companies that we have a stake in or whatever. It's just really nice to be around great people and build with great people. So I enjoy guiding that process of building with and working with great people. So I think the people driven element whether that's you know um supporting them in the early stage or bringing them on board or even the fundraising journeys in some of our businesses. You know we're still capital raising for for example in our new paddle business you know that being amongst that process I really enjoyed because I think I've been through again I've got a lot of the war stories and the the scars I want I know how to overcome. Um so I really enjoy that process to be honest. That's that's probably the biggest part. >> So interesting to do because you're a solo founder to begin with and you said like about micromanagement stuff like that. How has it been to like work with business partners and to have that as well? Like how have you been able to build those relationships and also like you're going to have to let go of some of the decision making power, right? It can be hard. >> Yeah. So definitely made some mistakes there as well to be honest. So had business partners that it didn't work out with and have business partners now that it's fantastic with. And the main thing I think was and again that that was a learning curve as well, right? going from solo founder to being with co-founders and then reducing those number of number of co-founders or or or different having different business partners that itself was a learning curve right because I didn't know how to select it and having business partners is like being it's like getting married ultimately because as bad as it sounds um most business relationships probably last longer than marriages right so and people take that so lightly but I I say that in the sense that value alignment matters right in this context complimentary skill set like it it really really matters and I see a lot of co-founder relationships where there's so many crossover and skill sets and you think but what what like why are you guys doing this together like so you really got to separate that and really discern from that and it's quite hard um but that's where I've learned I think where value alignment so where there's been value misalignment I've then ended those relationships from a from a business partnership perspective and making sure there's complimentary skill sets because then you kind of own your space and you own that and you have that presence in your space and you respect each other's opinion and understanding around your skill sets that you have right >> we were saying earlier right where say for example the events I don't organize the events I have pretty much no idea what's going on the time like it's I know it's in my calendar but then unless there's something in particular that's just Ger's area that's like he's got Catherine's working with him now so they're working that out >> I don't need to know I don't need to know the little details like I might question them like oh like what made you go for that like that's kind of random and then told me why I'm all right. Great. And I think it's really important skill to be able to even if you disagree. Okay, cool. That's your area. You work in this more than I do. >> Yeah. >> I I accept your opinion. Right. And it's not easy to do. >> Not easy at all. Yeah. >> But it makes such a difference, right? And now you said like, okay, you've got the you mentioned the paddle business there as well. >> Yeah. >> Tell us a bit more about that. >> Yeah. So, funnily enough, as I've been diving kind of deeper into tech, I've realized that the world is also changing a massive pace outside of that tech, right? So, if you if you're not adopting emerging technology, you're going to get left behind, right? And my passion around that is enabling businesses, is enabling entrepreneurs, is enabling individuals to adopt emerging tech. But kind of one, you know, at some point last year, I really thought actually what happens on the other end of that spectrum, right? What happens when people need to disconnect and the world is moving with such um kind of immersion around tech that actually there's going to be a point where people think I need to I need to disconnect and my favorite way to do that is sport right gym, tennis, paddle, etc. And I've started playing paddle the last couple of years and realize how good of a sport it is in terms of accessibility. Um in terms of networking actually it's become a fantastic business sport for us and for a lot of people I know. So, so the next venture um is still early days, but is is getting into opening a chain of paddle clubs and and the real focus on that is yes, it's the sport, but it's just the physical embodiment of community. It's let's bring great people together. Let's bring people closer together in physical hubs because it's not happening enough anymore. And I think sport is such a beautiful healthy way to do that. >> Yeah. And I think on the AI side as well cuz like one of the things I did in a way is like I almost intent well I've got a tech background which helped right? So I delayed some of my adoption cuz like let me wait and then okay code at the point in the last few months has taken to a new level. So let me now jump in here. >> Yeah. >> But then it helps cuz I have a background in it. So I could do it quicker. And one of the things I think is quite interesting is that the tech is going to get easier and easier to use, right? Easy and easy to like for people who aren't familiar with it to use it. So that creates like a little wedge of where there's a transition phase happening and that's where there's an opportunity in there. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> cuz I look at it as like say like when you first had to build a website like 30 years ago, right? Really hard, but if people could do it, there's a lot less competition. Whereas now building a website, it's easy. So it's not as much is the different windows that open and close, right? >> Yeah. >> And also in the community side, so I guess on the journey we've been on, right? So there's so many communities which are online only and to me it's just saturation. There's just how do you really differentiate and even with say online content right now, right? I don't know how you make a content. There's a lot of just AI slot and it's just like or people paying ghost rides, whatever it is. Right. Yeah. >> So, when you've got that kind of a world, how do you really stand out an online forum when you don't even know if it's the person's actual opinion? >> Yeah. >> Or if they've just like got AI to write it for them. And that's a bit of where like you can really differentiate yourself is now in person. And I don't know if you found this too saying the pandemic and obviously building a co-working space. I'm guessing this probably alignment how we're thinking here. So much of the pandemic is like, we'll just work online and that's the way that the future's going to work. >> But it kind of like misses the whole human element of all of this, right? Is that >> with somebody I know in person and we've like had a laugh. There's an element of trust there. >> Yeah. >> And playing paddle with somebody who's going to be a business partner, >> you build that trust too. >> 100%. And and I think that's why we've found it because that the nature or the modes of that interaction have changed a lot, right? Because people are moving in different areas. People are a little bit more isolated. Um and I think this one of the things is just we will never lose the need for that human interaction. But I think as people become more health and wellness conscious as well. So also the nature of that interaction has changed. So pre- pandemic it might be and it still is obviously but but you know it might be let's go to a bar, let's go to the pub. Now people are saying well I don't I don't want to have a drink and people neither of us want to have a drink. Let's go and have a game of paddle. Let's go and have a game of tennis. Let's go and do this. let's go and do you know we're looking at cryotherapy business at the moment getting involved with right there's so many so that that health conscious movement as well is also part of that but whilst maintaining that community element and obviously it's the fastest growing sport in the world in paddle's case as well so it's very complimentary to that but the the low barrier to entry in terms of accessibility to play like if you've played any sport before or any racket sport or even you mentioned karate right just that hand eye coordination allows you to pivot into a sport which is quite rare to find so that for us is is is the best thing, right? And you do genuinely build relationship over um whether it's a drink, whether it's a game, but that human interaction what you learn about people from everything from body expression to the level of integrity they have by sitting there and looking in the eyes, you just get a very different sense about people, right? And we wor with one club as well, so it's in the similar kind of area. How did you kind of foster that? How did you try to make yourself stand out amongst like loads of different member clubs? How do you try to make it so you have these genuine connections between the members? Good question. So we we kind of we tried to foster that from the outset. So again the team have been amazing in terms of actually getting uh you know we run event two one or two events in London um a month right and it's about bringing entrepreneurs together and we do it in different members club different spaces and they're kind of live podcast recordings or it's kind of um uh workshops it might be talks from great entrepreneurs or whatever it might be from other members coming in. Um but the main thing is from day one the ethos that we kind of focused on and that I really tried to set out was you you have one end of the spectrum which is elitism right so given the background I come from you know free school meal pupil and everything else I said I don't want the kind of elitist you know so house type vibe where you know don't talk to me unless you know me right if you go to so house and you speak to someone you don't know you might lose your membership >> yeah mental right I mean that's bizarre so the other end of the spectrum is also the sleazy uh business networking events where everyone's got a business card out, you have a 3-second conversation, you don't build any relationship and you're saying, "Here's my card." And you get home and you go, "I don't even know who this guy was." >> So, we wanted to kind of foster something in the middle, which is the ethos was genu genuinely about around build great personal relationship and business will come off the back of it. And that, you know, again, hats off to the team, but it has maintained that that ethos to date. Um so again in person and with that ethos with those things combined I think you create a bit of a culture and environment where it's it's not purely about business and it's not you know too elitist right and so we work a youth start program as well right where we have states kids who come into our office over summer and we teach them startup skills about stuff and I guess it's that bit used as identity too is like what's kind of most important to you over time and I think sometimes people people are younger they're chasing the status the ego and things like that and now it's like as a music I'm in that stage like I don't really care what most people think about me anymore >> and if it's like for say for example like a 17-year-old is like okay that was the highlight of my summer and I learned so much that's way more important to me >> than somebody who's like sucking up to me telling me how amazing I am because they want some business from me right and >> how do you think that changed for you over time as well right cuz >> when you're kind of coming from the background you did and you kind of got to prove yourself to now where you are today like how do you think you've learned about yourself more and like what drives you and have your motivations changed over time? >> Yeah, it's a it's a good point. I think it definitely has changed over time when you're 17 and I think like I mentioned given my background my my sole focus at the time was I genuinely felt there's a big problem to solve in the property space at the time. So for me it was solve that problem but it was make money for my parents like that that was that was the the sole the main drivers were based on those two things and although that's adjusted over time I think you realize that actually when you're trying to make money or certain level of progress you know you you then learn as everyone else does the arrival fallacy and actually there is no end point or end goal right um and once you realize that uh there's a nice phrase I've heard from an author I listened to on podcast recently which is watch the sunset from where you live which the point being is it's all about perspective right if you have that fundamental gratitude for your journey and that you realize that the kind of there's happiness and there's kind of what what I like to refer to as like nourishment there's being fulfilled on your journey there's being purposeful on your journey it's not people stop looking for happiness right because people portray that in so many different ways whereas nourishment is like a nice word I like to use to to convey that do you feel fulfilled do you feel purposeful do you feel like you're enjoying the journey as it is as opposed to a certain point in happiness as a destination and I think that adjustment is the main thing and I'm very motivated by progress whether again whether that's in sport or business whatever family life so for me I'm just still continuously driven by that and the service mentality is the main thing since then as you mentioned so you know I've had internships in the business since you know even back when I was 17 there was I was taking interns on the same age as me right so because it was about giving an opportunity and I set up my social enterprise at about 22 which was about helping young people get into work and again a lot of these young people were my age or even older than me but because I felt so grateful to be in a position where I was able to go out and set something up else set set something up on my own to actually help other people get into work was part of that passion. So for me that is a yeah a much more fruitful part of the journey because I think it's Muhammad Ali that says your service to this world is is the rent you pay for for your place on earth right and and that service mentality I think has become a much bigger part of what I want to do and everything moving forward with the young people right so there's so much in the news right now about like the junior roles all this kind of stuff right and I think it can be quite a scary time to be like a young person right now they're think about what's my job opportunities what kind of way do I go if you got any young people listening now, what would you tell them? >> I think it's it's tough because I've had a few conversations actually even in the last few days of um you know friends or friends of friends who are saying look I'm just not in a you know I've graduated x number of years ago I'm not struggling to find something. The main question is don't be afraid to diversify your skill set. I think um and maybe that's slightly biased because of you know the the random wacky experiences that I've been had in my life but don't be afraid to diversify because even if you look at you know go back to AI now for example I I think it's going to be the equivalent even looking at AI is probably the equivalent to what Microsoft Office was 25 years ago right like you cannot get a job if you don't know how to use Excel and nowadays if you look at that now it's the case right if you don't know how to use Excel or Microsoft Word or whatever you're not going to get a job in most environ most office-based environments, it's probably the same thing. So, the quicker you can uh diversify that skill set, you know, forget what degree you did for a second, think about holistic skill set, think about communication abilities and skills, think about people, relationship building, think about, you know, looking at AI, try and broaden that horizon. I think it will start to become much more valuable to most employers over time. Um, or I hope so anyway. >> Yeah. And I think it's on that too. It's like a lot of the time now I think you mentioned about who you hire is that >> who is it that you back to be able to learn new things because the skill if you hire for somebody now their job in a year's time is probably quite different with the AI tools out there. So it's like who do you feel like can adapt and it's scary but then at the same time it's like that's the world now right you got to be able to figure out how you're going to keep on touch with stuff because AI is now it's like Pandora's world right it's out of the box you can't put it back in again and you can't okay it was like a nice before right you could just build your way up and things like that but in this new dynamic >> what makes you stand out and >> it's even when you come back to communities it's like the ability to talk to people and to make people feel heard and be able to understand how people are thinking and communicate to them is just again like AI. It can help and you can write emails and stuff like that, but it's not going to replace that like I trust this person. >> Exactly. >> This person I'm going to give my job to because I know they're going to get it done and I back them. And I think that's the bit that's always going to be there is that trust and I believe in you that you're going to figure out 100%. And I think you know even in an entrepreneurial environment it's you know confidence you know even confidence generally is not and most people misalign this or misinterpret confidence is not about being confident about what you know and and conveying what you know it's about being confident in yourself that you're going to figure it out like even entrepreneurial sense right you're jumping off a cliff and building a plane on the way down and that process is therefore about do you have enough confidence that you will figure it out not that you have to know it right and that's and that's really really important even in terms of building teams or you know people looking for for roles is because you you will be thrown into the deep end as things evolve so quickly you need to be able to have that confidence and convey that you can figure it out because I'll give you an example you know one of our recent hires went to uh called Logan he he went to the London interdisciplinary school right which is a new university that was set up about 5 years ago so he was the first or second cohort ever firstly it's quite a brave thing to be the first or second cohort to a brand new university and secondly the entire degree was based on how to think. M so obviously in the name interdiciplinary but they looked at you know politics they looked at economics they looked at sciences they looked they did some engineering and coding but the whole point was about get a holistic view on on on the world and understand how to think critically and you know when we interviewed him I just you could really see that come through and and and that's what most people are missing is oh I think oh okay even if I learn how to use AI you need to understand how to think you are still the one leading the machine right so you've got to understand how to think how to discern from what's right and what's wrong, how to discern from, you know, the strategic way to do things and and I think that's what most people are missing. >> So, we're going to wrap up in a second, but so be episode 310 or something like that. >> Amazing. >> So, we're saying every 200 episodes someone can come back on again. So, that's like two years later, right? >> So, we're going to get little TV up here. We'll get like an AI TV that's pretending to be there, right? >> And we'll replay back this, right? So, what would you love to say if you come back on in two years time that you've been able to do in those two years? I think it's an interesting time in my life. I think it's continuously um focusing and and keeping grounded in that service mentality and not losing that to be honest. So the things that I build next centered around community sport in in the kind of the AI space as well. It's in can obviously scale those um in line with you know the ambitions that we have. some multi-sight strategy on sports business um and growing from you know the AI business and portfolio companies but but still maintain that service mentality and focus I think for me is is quite a big one because as you get into new spaces you get into a steep learning curve it's quite easy to lose that so yeah it's a it's a more it's weirdly unquantifiable but I think that's quite important for me >> it's like an identity thing right holding on to identity right >> 100% yeah okay so the wrap-up questions now so first who are free Asians in Britain you think are doing amazing work and do you want to shout them out? >> Um, good question. There's loads. To be honest, one of them is actually yourself. Um, I think you've done yourself and your your business partner and your team, of course, I think they've done great work because we've been through a period where um, obviously being either first or second or third gen in the country, it's it's been quite hard to find other Asians who are really proud about what they do from an entrepreneurial perspective. But not only that, I feel like we we're moving from a from a competitive Asian mindset to a much more collaborative. And I I really like that because I've never a fan of that kind of competitive Asian mentality around business. And I think, you know, we can all there's enough food in the world for us all to eat together, right? And I think that's really got to be embraced. So I think what you guys are doing is great. Bring Sunnack back to be our prime minister. So he he's obviously won. I think uh Varon from Magic AI is doing some great stuff. Um, so the pleasure of kind of speaking to him quite a few times, but I think they've done some great stuff given it's a really difficult space. Consumer hardware is is incredibly difficult. Um, and the last one or two I'll probably say it's a bit biased because they're my own business partners, but Sachin Bat and Arabathia because they're both um, very young. So they're in their kind of early 20s and although I started young, I now feel like an old man seeing them because they're doing some great stuff. Like I said, one was youngest consultant, Accenture, the other started his own protein snack brand as well. But doing that um again very very young, it's so nice to see because um again when I was doing that there were there weren't as many people but it sound nice to see that people are willing to go out and take risk and be bold and be brave and you know even in the Asian community. >> Awesome. Well, thanks for shout out for us as well. >> We need to get Richie Sunn on the podcast at some point. So we're going to learn that way too at some point. >> And then if people want to find out more about you and what you're up to, where do they go to? uh LinkedIn or Instagram probably the best places. Um so Instagram is just a rupelia and same with uh LinkedIn. So reach out there >> and is there any way that the audience could help you to be honest? Similar to what I've said before, we want to work with great people, right? So whether you've got an idea and you want to build your own business, um let us know. We'd love to help you. Whether you're looking for a role and you want to be around great people and and you know, want to to develop your path in the entrepreneurial world or in the startup world, you know, we we we're always hiring and looking for people to work with. So um so yeah I think look if you're if you're ambitious um you've got a great business or great idea or or great um attitude and work ethic you know we want to work together. >> Awesome. So thanks so much for coming on. >> Thank you so much. >> Any final words? >> Um just learn quickly, grow quickly and um yeah know be grateful for where you are.