this is Michael Sanders go-sees show with me Michael Sanders and the lovely Daphne vulgar exactly from silent models welcome it's a sort of gray day probably quite close in climate to Belgium I feel like I'm at home exactly totally so I usually start off by asking you where you're from okay so I am from Antwerp in Belgium mm-hmm born and raised from like the center it's it's not that big of a city it's the second-biggest city of Belgium so I mean I've always grown up like in a city so even though like this is New York or I've spent time in London I like to be in the city and like around people who are your parents and what do they do my mom is a lawyer she no vehicles well look old exactly a bloody long name its first name and last name first okay Velma is not via run nothing yet Allah what does that mean do you know where that comes from I don't I actually don't is it typical I mean it's I think nowadays people don't call their children children fatal anymore in Belgium the fashion name was it wasn't in vogue in when your mother was growing up or was it always old-fashioned I think it was always a bit old-fashioned mm-hmm yeah I think it was is it a French or Flemish part of Belgium it's the Flemish part so Antwerp is in the north and everything up until Brussels is Flemish and everything below is French okay so you're closer to a Dutch person yeah than a French person yeah I am and in the way you look - probably yeah I guess we will make the Oh what's going on here let me plug you in there yeah do you have a charger closeby yeah sorry technical difficulties yes what where I should have I should have come with a full bedroom okay yes I am alright okay so you're we'll talk about briefly your resemblance to a nuclear pair yes is a very famous Belgian model slum of the nineties yeah she was huge she was she was doing everything here in New York as well and you were sort of immediately compared to her even yeah I think when I first got scouted I mean back then I didn't really know who Anouk was but I already heard I mean it's the eyebrow has been like the dark hair and there's also like resemblances in facial I photographed her oh you did yes and she was very sexy Anouk yeah and it's not something I mean it's rare that you've forgot someone who's that sexy strangely enough because that's strange because that's not really the vibe I get off her absolutely not maybe it doesn't come out when you shake came out when you see her in person in the vibe of the yeah thing okay one of the rare times actually so that's obviously something going for her for sure right right there she still she's still I've done like a few shows with her in the past when I was doing Fashion Week and I've seen her last year also a few times in Antwerp I think she moved back to Antwerp right now given your considerable height it would be inaccurate to call you a baby yes I'm a lot taller than her yeah she's I think five five nine yeah she's not she's not super tall so your mummy isn't lawyer what does your daddy do and what's his funny name my dad his name is Shawn very good yeah French actually yeah it's kind of in on my dad sites side of the family it was kind of tradition to name your son like a young or Jean or my older brother is named Quan which is like the Spanish equations and actually my dad's full name is Jean Jr Felger because my granddad's name was Jean Vanier so Junior as in Junior yeah Junior as in Junior so he was named the same as his father he was yeah okay so I don't know if my brother when he will have a child because he's not he's not yet like thinking about that I think tell me about your brother he is 29 he just got engaged they've been together for 14 years that's a good time to being gay yes that's um like almost half of his life yeah and a classic time to think about getting married yeah how what was the distance between you and how are you growing up together um there is almost three years between me and Quan and we kind of did everything together when we grew up he was my worst enemy and my best friend so you don't find ya off ya okay what was like with hitting each other everything fantastic you were taller than him no back then always feels I was a shorter yeah I kind of like passed him you did or when I when I was like 18 19 then I passed him in height but he will never admit up until the day of today that I'm taller than him although it's just a statistical fact although it is obvious to see is he just deluded no no no it's just maybe it's like an inch an inch and a half like he's like my dad is super tall all of my family's super tall I have moms tall - she's not that tall she's like an average woman's high I'd say but my young I have a younger brother as well oh you do big family you've done no there is no but it's nice we we grew up like I grew up babysitting my younger brother and sister like doing things together and I feel within a family when you have brothers and sisters you already learn a lot about life as in a way of sharing and doing things together and multiple personalities not to deal with yeah and and just keeping always in mind that there's other people as well but you know have needs and and and you just take care of each other are you a people person and what is your star sign I am an Aquarius okay and what are the other members of the family your you were and my arey family like Samaras I know I don't know how you say it in English my brother is a I don't know how you say the stars what is that like a lobster my crab yes cancer yes okay that's my older brother the younger one is a ball okay and my sister is 11 of September what is that I don't know is that Libra Virgo yeah I think that's very cool okay cool I think so so what is what did you dad do if your mom was alive my dad is representative at a very technical company where they install like big laser I don't really know how you say it is he a techie yeah is he an engineer like your engineering yet okay do you know how they met they met they met in high school the end of high school I don't really know how that's an unusual thing when they met through mutual friends I say no in high school yeah high school sweethearts very rarely make it into the real world yeah man I mean I think it was kind of towards the end of you know high school and everything I think my mom was about 18 17 and my dad was too been like 18 19 so what's the secret do you think for their longevity I mean unfortunately they're not together anymore they're not well there you go now there you go I mean they I know that they were there for four kids will do that to you though yeah when when did they split up which kid well are the brunt maybe so basically it's not this my family sir is like complicated I love that because it was me and my older brother yes and then it's the tube you get the two of us and they broke up when I was very little I was about a year or two okay you don't remember them together I don't I don't okay and then did you go up with your mother sorry if I know I we did a week week so I would spend with my dad's in a week at my common man yeah so he had separate household yes did either of those entities remarry no I mean they are both right now in a relationship they're very happy and long-term ones yeah but they never got married even though when they had me my right you they were never mad no they were never married I feel like nowadays people of my age are all getting engaged again and getting married again but I kind of had the feeling that gen xers one day yeah they do you think um do you know my mom is beginning of 50s okay so she's Gen X yeah mhm and my dad is like two years older so okay okay cool so they didn't get on but you didn't see any of that because that had already been done by this yeah I'm actually in a way even though it might come out weirdly but I'm kind of happy that I was so young because I grew up with it being super normal to always travel to be spent time here spend time there and that's something that really helps me modeling I don't really feel homesick that often or I I find it easy to feel at home in an in an unusual environment right exactly that's good like I can adapt are you independent are you an independent type of person yeah I think so yeah yeah I am that's good so we are pretty child growing up what was the what was when was the first time that you're aware of how you looked well I took me a while I think for a very long time I my mom always let me go to school the way I wanted to dress I looked like a rainbow I would combine all colors I could find and I don't know I looked a bit funny if I look back on these pictures but I think up until I was going to uni at first then I didn't really maybe the end of high school already I would say about 1617 is when you were then I work the way you were look yeah where others aware of yeah and then I wanted to look cool then I wanted to dress what was trendy and you look at other girls so you're like oh she's wearing this and she's quite popular so maybe I should wear it and mmm yeah the codes of fashion yeah you made themselves known so how was your dating life your love life tell me about that I mean for the moment now I'm very happy in a relationship with also my boyfriend's always also British she's also from London did you meet in London yeah we did actually you were modeling uh I was in London for modeling he was he also works in fashion now but when had I met him he wasn't and we just met through mutual friends and then after a few years he started doing casting and working with my casting directors in London so then I would run into him on Fashion Week or castings and then we kind of always just remained friends he's a casting director no now he does fashion production okay yeah so he was looking for a way in um was it something you stumbled into he stumbled into it because he did photography and then he was assisting in an agency and then he was like assisting casting directors you know when you're young and you just want to learn it yes and then he kind of like got into production he was like wow I'm actually he always says I was not that good of a photographer but it seemed that I was really good at getting everything and like a dream team together and organizing everything so we would have like a good outcome to have the soft knowledge to know that you weren't - yeah yeah it's an unusual thing his first love that's what he wanted to do I want sure I think he wasn't really I I don't really know I think he wasn't entirely sure what he wanted to do and sometimes it's like trial and error you like try something and you know well this part of it I love but this part of it I don't love so then you're just like re-calibrate yeah exactly what were your ambitions growing up as a little girl what did you want to do what were you like um I guess I was way more afraid of the unknown I felt like I'm just gonna go and get like a university degree and risk-averse yes very risk-averse you still risk-averse no I'm not a lot less now now I'm like oh yeah this is new I don't know let's do it you know and that was partly because of the job itself yeah okay so how were you scouted tell me the process by which you became a model I was 15 I was going to a so pre you're yet burgeoning fashion sense yeah it was I in all honesty the day that I got scouted if I still have a picture of that day because it was on a festival and people were taking Polaroids and I found that picture and what I'm wearing I'm like oh god she must have had a good eye to like see through it yeah through the last yes okay I mean I really look like like a kid a little and yes I was walking around with my friends and then all of a sudden this lady stops me and she asked me have you ever thought about being a fashion model and I was so I was a lot taller than everyone else yeah age too stood out that way so yeah so that wasn't so difficult maybe you were definitely oh yeah I had the height and I was I was I mean I've always been like very small and skinny and so I thought I looked like a boy I had no boobs I was very tall and I was like like stripe in pole yeah we was like did you play sports as a term I did ballet from when I was five until yeah for a while until I was 20 yeah well you're joking yeah so you'd consider yourself a dancer yeah it was it was a Moche percent 95 percent of your life yeah yeah yeah you've been doing ballet yeah I did it like three times a week yeah all those years all those years so have you mastered it have you put in your 10,000 hours that they say is what it takes to but I mean I'm pretty sure how many hours I would probably get it but I haven't done it now in a few years and especially ballets such a precision I actually by coincidence I took him a friend of mine loves to go see the New York City Ballet yeah and they have like these workshops that you can go and either any of the teachers or any of the students give you a ballet class wicked yeah so yesterday evening I went with a few friends and we took a ballet class which is basically taught by top top dancers in the New York City Ballet and one time before I was like a top teacher that like gave the class so it was pretty extraordinary and then when I did look at myself in the reflection in the mirror I was like I still I can pick up the choreography maybe faster than everyone else and maybe I'm I can move a little bit more elegantly but still looking at it I was like wow all those years it's really there was still a big gap yeah there was yeah but you didn't embarrass yourself I hope not I mean I was just having fun it was not that much about how good it looked it was more that you were doing it at all yeah yeah I went to the City Ballet the American City Ballet to see Wendy Whelan I was a great documentary actually that's okay about you should watch it about Wendy's the end of Wendy's career she got she got it's an amazing story actually because it highlights the mind over the matter the fact that we're holistic beings and our bodies and minds are so interconnected yeah because there was a time in the last five to ten years when the head of the ballet was starting to ease her out of some of the main main role and she could hinting at her age and more than that and more damaging still hinting at her ability to do them and once he said that she got injured had issues physically for the first time in our whole life it is the thing is just the to dance ballet on such high level it's so much dedication know that if your mind is not 200 percent there and you don't really want it and you don't believe that you're the best dancer in the world you don't shine off that stage then you slip and you can't be the best dancer in the world she was the best dancer in the world when I saw her and she did a padded ballet that's very famous that was beat and you saw it and I saw yes I pass been however many years ago it's probably forward 12 years ago now okay so in her prime and it was incredible it really was and I'm not a I'm not a lover of the ballet my daughter does done on Saturday morning she does ballet and our ballet then jazz then model okay Madi modern jazz okay that's also what I did ballet modern and jazz but you obviously prepared preferred ballet if you have a big one and do only one well now if I would have to pick one I'd probably pick modern because I feel it's more in ballet it's all about your light and your a feather and there's no gravity and you're like jumping and and in in modern dance you kind of like you you emphasize like the gravity it's more like the foot you know it's yes it's more around yes and you can kind of feel more how you want to move I mean I guess it's also like an approach to ballet I just maybe it's also because ballet is much in my opinion much much harder than modern dance what kept you going through all of the ballet grind over all those years did you just really love it what was the draw it for me it was that all of the girls that I started when I was like five six years old became your best friend's my best friends I was very close to them and it was just it was just like a fun social occasion it would be like on Monday oh yeah ballet and then we would all come and we would like get when we were like talking and then on Wednesday it was more like modern dance and then oh yeah which choreography we're gonna do today and we all lived in the same neighborhood so maybe after a class we would like go home and like watch TV together or in our free time we would make our own choreographies and stuff is a group it was a group thing it was a group thing yeah and you're happy with that very you're a group person yeah very I get I go crazy fighting very much time alone yeah my mind like runs off with me when I'm with people I I feel like I'm more myself I don't know if that's weird or did these friends of yours these ballet friends continue into this age now how many stay um well we kind of all did it for until we were like 20 21 22 then some went to study abroad or they went to you like a study in a different city so it became more difficult because even if you do it in a different City it was not that core group anymore it was not unfeeling and I have one friend and she studied like sort of like how do I explain it it's kind of like a tea reputed dancing okay yeah and yeah she kind of like it's not like ballet but still she uses movement to like understand how people feel and to be able to express their emotions and she kind of like that wind down way yeah I know models out of this group we know I'm the only model okay let's go back to this story fifteen years old okay whoo yes yes so a lady walks over me she asks me well are you interested in where are you this is in Antwerp in my hometown on a festival a festival the festival yeah Music Festival yeah what's it playing in the background what kind of festival it was it's called laundry day um it's kind of like it changed a bit over the years but it was it now with more electronic Technol kind of music back then it was a bit of everything it kind of started with all the stores in Antwerp would just have one day that they would decorate the streets and have music on and would do sales and have like food and everything it was kind of like a neighborhood thing that grew out until like a big big festival okay even to the point that now it's so big they can't do it in the center anymore do it like further out this lady was a scam or mother agent yeah she was at she was a scout yeah she used to model herself is that yours that's we're getting little notification right sorry although I bet some technology oh so she asked me if I ever she literally asked me have you ever considered to become a fashion model I like that sentence it's to the point it's yes see and descriptive yeah but yeah she she she scattered a few big Belgian models I don't know if you know compares yes so she spotted her and yeah a few other girls wicked yeah obviously she was doing her job going to these festivals yeah yeah she was like Kanaya everlasting math yes and what do you think how did you feel what I want in all honesty I'm not just saying this but I thought she was trying to make me look like a fool like she was joking with me it was I was so I I was a prank yeah I thought it was a prank and I was just like like I didn't really know what to reply because what do you say if you think you know people are not taking you serious and I was like no and then she asked me how tall are you and I had no idea how tall I was so I was like I don't know maybe 175 or 177 she's like I think you're a little bit taller she said because she stood next to me and she compared her hide to my height and then she's it well because it was very busy in the way was she like approached me so she was like oh would you mind to like come over and I can give you my phone number and then she said maybe you can come by were your parents and your mother and I can explain to you what I do and I Scout like models and I'm just wondering if you're interested in this but the fact that she mentioned like please bring your parents I yeah she reassured me like okay so this must be serious because if it's someone who's trying to fool me then they would never yes right you know involve your parents in there yeah so then she wrote down her numbers and I was oh do you want me to give me your phone number she was like no no you just call me whenever you want to come with your parents and then I was like with that note like oh my god oh my god and then I I think a day or two later I told my parents and how are you excited how do you feel I mean was it some kind of indication that you were beautiful did you think you were pretty and beautiful this is the question I was trying to get at earlier did you like looking at yourself in the mirror and you the reflection not coming back that mean and it's not that I dislike myself but I just didn't think that's a beautiful woman no this is a model I was like this is a girl that was how I saw myself like I'm a girl so you you you put models on a different plane yeah it was really like for me a model is like someone who's perfect body wise her face everything she has a sort of like everyone looks at her when she walks in like it's someone you would put on a pedestal yes exactly and I I have for me I was just like a fun girl you know like a child a little fun is good yeah yeah are you fun I don't know I'm getting fun good which is good good energy and fun so all right so then what was the next stage so then I went to see her with my mom and she what did your mom think she was kind of like oh oh yeah yes you're very tall and you have like you know you're very like lean and yeah and with your ballet and stuff and salute and then I was like oh okay maybe maybe I am very tall and you know had your mother told you all your life what a beautiful pretty child off your horse yes she always said like oh you're you're my princess or a flower but obviously when your mom says it you feel like it's she just says it because you know yeah she's your mom yeah you know Toledo tells me that all the time yeah and I say well yes it's true but yeah yeah okay so you were excited but I was excited I was very curious at the same time I had this feeling of let I feel very curious on how this world works in what it actually is and had you had you what looked at fashion magazines oh yes yeah you had already been interested because you said that was 16 17 so you're going back two years well I I guess I was I was not very interested in the sense of like looking at all the runways etc but if I would be waiting at the dentist you would like flick through the magazine but whatever been that magazine in the dentist office it would have been like a Belgian Elle okay well yeah yeah but I guess my interest in it only came afterwards because the lady who scouted me she she told me a few things that I really always stayed in my mind she said don't tell people at school because it'll be jealous they'll be jealous you'll create misunderstanding and you're too young right now to full-time do modeling what you need to do now is go to school just do everything as you are supposed to and maybe occasionally when something good happens oh come you can yeah you can do a casting or but slowly she said if you're gonna go you're too young if we I'm gonna send you abroad too fast all of these things are gonna go come towards you and you don't you will not know how to deal with it you're not ready and I also think it's important that you have like your childhood and all of that sort of lovely scouting model yeah she was very very maternal very um as a person as a person yet very protective over over the girls that she scouted so you took her advice so I did I what's the first job you did what was the first time you had a picture taken of you so that was that was not that much time after it was like a month or so after then she she contacted me and she said there's a photographer who is seeing girls next Saturday and for a shoot for a brand called in that song and in Belgium it's if it's kind of like a big deal let's say it's like M&S no it's bigger yeah but not in its it's quite high and quite high end okay I don't really know to what you can compare maybe to like in in in the UK no I mean Belgium is a lot smaller so I can't really say like Burberry but oh wow for Belgium it's like a big deal because they designed the clothes for the our King and our Queen right lecture they do like Kutcher stuff yes but you didn't tell me for who it was she just told me the photographer would like to meet you and for you it's good practice so that's just going meet that person so I was like that was your first go see yeah so and she told me I'm gonna come with you because I felt like super uncomfortable but because I I didn't totally didn't know what to expect or I didn't really want to make a good impression I guess that really helped me to just was like your lungs my name is Daphne and then he was like taking pictures I was like where do I look and what do I do but he quite liked how simple and pure it all was yes and I had to try a few things on and he just home yeah please walk back and forth I'm gonna take some pictures while you walk and I was very unaware of but obviously the clothes were beautiful and you look good in them and I looked good in him that was really tall and they needed like a tall girl so afterwards when we left she told me oh wow that went really well and I couldn't compare it to any other casting I had done in my life so I was like oh really I don't know I thought that was how it always wins yeah and I think a day or two later she called me and she was like you got it yeah you confirmed its two-day shoots for this brand and I was a cool my god obviously I had heard of the brand and then and for me it was like it was a really extraordinary moment like wow I actually did it I have the potential to totally it wasn't just beginner's luck yes that was the first yeah everything yeah but went out for yeah so did that create expectations that it would always be this yeah and that you would get every single job that you wanted especially because they were so enthusiastic when they met me that I thought like oh people in fashion are really nice and apparently like III made I finished and then I remembered that after it was a little bit because if this went so easy and he was so positive and how was the shoot different from the actual go see oh no the shoot the shoot itself went well okay yeah the shoot itself was just I mean everyone knew that I just started and this was my first job and I really got scouted like a few days before Wow and so everyone was very very nice hair and makeup a supernatural and all the other models were really sweet the photographer was very patient it luckily it was not a lot of posing it was more like lookbook II kind of poses okay so that really helped me a long way but it it yet onset and everything it went really well they picked me up from home because it was quite a drive the stylist would pick me up and drive me off because they knew that I was you know unaware of right you know it was not like a dress in time like how it now yes yes do you think that all of those years of ballet made you more mature than a normal 15 year old I don't able to deal with things I do consider yourself such were you quiet did you have your head on your shoulders at that age I think it has more I think ballet helped me in the sense that I was not afraid to use my body or move around on set and I knew my shapes and my you know I'm not sure but what made me more mature was I think because my parents broke up when I was really young and we were always going from one place to another yeah like oh we need this book for my English class you know I I I guess that helped me a long way in being yeah used to like it's taking care of yours exactly taking care of mine so you're not a useless in inverted commas millennial know who doesn't have to cope with the real world yeah having been coddled by helicopter parents that we know I was very very like take care of yourself like my parents right that's great oh if you want to go and meet your friend you can but let's say they live like 30 minutes away like we have to work you know my mom is a lawyer so you have your own right so she was a working mother yes you know were you raised by was there a child mind or a babysitter whatever no were you a latchkey kid yeah you you let yourself in and out yeah yeah yeah we would she would be like okay we would walk or we would walk ourselves to school we would walk back from school with you I knew my mom would she work she would work until at least like 6:00 p.m. so if you were already hungry to like make a snack for yourself right and then I had ballet even before the time she got home so then I would like prep my ballet bag I mean it was all like a 10-minute walk because it was all in the area and it was very safe and whatever but total yeah prep for being a model yeah yeah and but at you you you you're able to like pack your own bag and what do I need to bring and stuff like that into your home or yourself yeah well done they did she did a good job yeah in her benevolent neglect yeah it's not neglect yeah you know what I mean they allow someone she was there when to like do fun stuff as well but she I just kind of understood like okay yeah it's reality there's a lot of you know I have a lot of brothers and sisters so someone who works true you know and they were around oops were they around it always does this my brothers and sisters yeah yep they were so there's always someone in the house the house was never empty okay that's great so at what point did you think I can really do this and I have a career I have an actual possibility of making money and sustaining myself from this I think that came what was the next hurdle milestone I mean then it was really quiet for a while for me because I then I became in my last year's at high school and I did Latin Greek so when I that why they arcane dead languages were you my my yeah I was really love to learn yeah and my parents my mom also did Latin in Greek and I don't know I I you went along yeah it went along and also the whole stories and the mythology around like I kind of like that yeah okay cool yeah and then the longer I did it the better I got at it so then he was like motivating me and did you go to a good school yes yeah private school oh no it was a public school but we don't really have a lot of private schools in okay so there's a good yeah there's public schools in Belgium more like from good level already let's go now we are where the aunt work was such a fashion capital oh yeah you were in the ad and web six and all of that history yeah it's it's kind of funny minimized Burcham yeah well whenever I go back Michelle who's your favorite friend actually of those designers I think if you had to choose one I mean I work a lot with even still with underwear mister yes so and I love classic you didn't minimize to go yes yeah I've worked with them like a bunch you know yeah like many many seasons yeah when they still have their Italian Antwerp so whenever I'm in Antwerp I I mean not always but sometimes it happens that I still who looks with them there and then they have their whole show and showroom and stuff in Paris so yeah so when was the first time that you did shows this was so you were starting off slow yeah I started off slow then I really needed to focus myself on school on high school and then I did I did three and a half years of uni after that what we used to know then I made a really odd turn and I studied economics and sociology which I I mean I'm not saying that I regretted it because it did teach me a lot about other things but economics is just not for me it's two numbers two numbers and two like also the way you have to think economically it's not yeah if for me it feels very unnatural ruined maybe it also had to do with doing six years of languages and mythology and translating and like open and like you can translate it like this or like that or like Enterprise interpreted and Men economics was like this is this and I was like yeah but maybe it's like no there is no way era sciences to something yeah yeah and that's it yeah I didn't like it but I thought well the sooner I finish this the sooner I can do full-time modeling so that so there was never ever though a question of you abandoning your studies no or not going to uni to begin with that was always something you were gonna do yeah and there was no you didn't even want to not do it I kind of wanted to take a gap year before I went to uni it's a model to model did you prefer modeling to start I just thought it was like it sounded so exciting was it more fun it was I mean that there's a better life yes you'll choose modeling over being a comment I must say like it depends also on how you are if you really need your routine and you need you dad certainty yeah and you need to know like how much you're gonna make every month and and you wanna be in one place with your family then don't do modelling because it's - yeah it's yeah it's the complete opposite but I kind of wanted to taste the travelling and meeting people and expressing yourself and the more the longer I did that studies at university the more I realized that I was like wow this is not for me maybe modeling is mmm so and finding yourself by what you yeah what what suited phone exactly thanks like a your boyfriend yes exactly okay good so did it did because I disliked it so much but I had a reason why I wanted to finish it as soon as possible I did well Zoey well you freakin buckled down yeah you grounded out yeah I was like did you get a first I got a how do you say it we say on there skating which is bloody good yeah is that an a-plus it's like an it's like honors yeah honest got honors you got an honours degree yep well yeah so accomplished yeah let's see if I do my taxes I still you can do that you can still do much yeah that's brand so okay so shows and all that stuff what so then when I had my last exam I was when we have exams at uni I would lock myself in my room for about two or three months and just study amazing it was like hardcore because I wasn't really I was actually not really good at it so I really had to put more time I admire that so much and then again back to dancing yeah yes you have to put in them yeah yeah it's not gonna happen by itself that I need to like start again with ballet know that I'm saying because you would oh yes you actually have to bloody yes and then the day after my last exam I remember I was knackered I was so tired but I flew to New York to do New York Fashion Week for the first time my mother agency got me placed in agencies in Paris and London and Milan Billy's not always known who comes when I when I was still in university the thing I would do for modeling was like I would in August and July when we have off I would go to London for a month and then do go season castings and some test shoots and some little jobs and I did the same for Paris for a month I went back to London like two or three times whenever I had like a one-month holiday and so I could like practice and work on my book a little bit and learn how to do castings and my agency came with me to London to get me placed with an agency there she did the same for Paris and for me lon she just contacted them via email and then she placed me what running okay and then in New York it was a bit harder because is it hard just full stuff yeah the competition is like enormous yeah yeah it's it's it's very intense you need to really be on it and just to be ready for new you yeah so it was a good thing that you had yeah for me especially because I was I was it I was actually and I'm very happy about that but I was a child for a very long time like not aware of how I had to dress and how I was just having fun with my friends doing like dancing being silly but if you would have sent me to New York then I think it would have been too much so what with her what are the pros and cons so far um on modelling yes what are the hick what are the the less so there's pressure to be a certain way the whole time yes solonian yes however it also allowed me to week two let's say beforehand I was like oh I'm tall and skinny and I don't have boobs and I don't you know but now because of modeling I'm like well this is my body shape and it can also be beautiful exactly and it and it actually is more desirable yeah to the fashion yeah Hank exactly so that was quite nice that you get you get people approve of that and people like oh wow this is beautiful it kind of made me feel good about myself because I always thought oh I never get on those yeah I hate it didn't Hance yourselves yeah yeah it didn't take it away no didn't rattle you after I mean it goes in it goes in periods you know what then are there any points that you were insecure yeah and that was in New York okay so that was the very first time I never really I'd never felt as insecure in Europe but then in New York where now I felt yeah you have to dress this way especially for shows it's so specific is it yeah it's I mean it's more like let's say more edgy for shows I mean I guess in general how they send out their girls for castings does it matter I don't know they just told me yeah we're black and and dress a little bit like a boy and have an Advil this is a current load and I was like yeah but I'm I'm not cool you know like and you can try to but if it doesn't naturally but you are in you're not being yeah I guess I guess but again they all centricity is what counts essentially and makes someone yes that when they're absolutely themselves is the coolest thing of all I yeah that's true but it I guess when you when you first come here you don't want to disappoint your agent you don't want to disappoint yeah it's something you know how you do so I was okay I have to so I started to like look for ways to look in my eyes cooler than I was and and and then after a while I I remember I was just I got very stressed because every time when I had to go to a cast I was like I didn't really know what to wear and that's a freaking stress every single day and then I just go with black jeans and a black t-shirt yeah but then I was like you if you were that for like a straight move the week then you're like you want to change it up and then they told me yeah but now the first round when you do Fashion Week is you meet all the casting directors and then the next round is that you start to meet the designers if if you get through if the the customers think you're good for a show then you go and meet the designer and then I was at well to meet the designer you need to dress a little bit more like fashion well so also I didn't really have a lot of brands like designer brands like clothing wise I was just dressed in like Zara and H&M and like every single other model so that's a level playing field when you really think about it yeah it's don't worry about that yeah more like well okay so how many shows did you do before you came to New York do you think before I came to you to do as fashion week I had done Paris Fashion Week and I Milan I had done as well in London in London so let's say I had done maybe like between 3 and 6 shows in each city ok yeah and so you had you lived in any of those territories before or were you always based out of an 12 I was coming I was always based out of Antwerp ok yeah so you've never lived elsewhere I'm before I came to New York know I was always but I would have spent like a month in on or a month in Paris and work and then go back so now you've moved to New York is that what we're saying yeah and how has that been how long has it been I've I had I did the back and forth up until like six months ago and not only recently I decided to like base myself in New York so we're talking months weeks days six months six months you've been here yeah so what's it like can you live here are you going to have you've had enough how are you where are you and you're let's say because because going back to my childhood me always being between a week with my mom and week with my dad I was always on the go yeah and then I started modeling and then I would spend like some time in Paris I would come to New York then would Fashion Week and then go to London and but I couldn't really decide on like where is the best place for me to live and I felt like if I'm gonna get a place in one city I might lose other jobs in other cities you know I was kind of I didn't really know where my head was I didn't really know what I wanted I mean where I wanted to live at cetera et cetera yeah I was always on the goal that's a nice picture of you yes isn't it it's my very nice layout for my portfolio my you do that I downloaded this app you did yes do you like me being controlled like that I mean to have a say I you my agency is pretty good at it they always look it goes that okay they always ask me how do you feel about your book your new book is online please change it on your iPad as well but if I would say for example oh I hate this picture then they would be like okay which one do you like then we'll replace it okay good so did the books differ depending on which yeah you're in sometimes totally yeah sometimes it's completely something else so what has been your highlight so far in every way which shoot which photographer which show sure if it's not too indiscreet and and no it sure was first time I did like the season starting in New York uh-huh by the time i got to paris i walked dior oh good that's a good one and that was with an oak wasn't natural yes and RFC Simmons was designing Stafford your he was and was he tortured hmm no he actually was he was he wasn't light but he wasn't having a nervous breakdown no he was not and he he's a very warm kind person and you felt that yeah and when I came in on the casting he quit very quickly we switched to Flemish because III think he could hear it from my accent or maybe I said something I don't really remember and then we just kept on talking and we really like you bonded and abundant lavish yes and he was he saw you one of him yeah and he was so so kind and just like oh he really loved me at that moment one and then he tried stuff on and then it was a great great can you walk for me and I mean I will never ever forget that was a high yeah Wow wrath yeah he's so clever yeah well done yeah and what about photography what do you have more to do what would you want to do well you what are your goals dreams hopes and ambitions right now I mean right now I would love to dream job dream job would be it like a fragrance campaign like a like ferb for a really amazing brand like Chanel fragrance that's it and then just like that I for me that's amazing because always those pictures are very it's a close-up it's very beautiful light there's always something very likes mmm womanly and like no you know I just came back from Miami and at the airport as you do it's the only time you really exposed to these yeah advertising right and there was a recent one was it yeah it must have been note we should Nell with Kristin yeah Kristen Stewart is Chanel Cheers yeah doing that sort of breaking through yeah the womb golden era that's a bit of a weird a weird video but it was kind of strong the one I regretted this Chanel one is with what's it Keira Knightley she did the Coco Chanel one and then this she's always good running in Paris or on the bridge and they're always running it's true that's why they need proof and yeah it was it was amazing I mean like everything like they put so much time and I know also because my boyfriend does production so he does it from the other side and sometimes I see for how long they work on on to get like a 10-second video or like a one picture there and I think it's amazing that is amazing especially because shows is more I don't know it's ten minutes in the show's over hmm which is amazing and it gives you so much adrenaline but when you can do a shoot that's something that you you were lies with you for a longer time with and it's you can put it in your book you know it feels more permanent permanent yeah so what's next what do you want to do now so next I mean now I am gonna be here for how long in your mind I I want to be based in New York like for example for Christmas I will go back so German see my family and what you eat at Christmas in Belgium we eat turkey you do yes we eat too much the English yeah with potatoes maybe with like Rossiter's in the oven yet roast potatoes and then we have like this kind of hardcore like a chutney like okay with with the meats uh-huh and then we have green beans so it's not a cranberry sauce yeah it's kind of like a cranberries it is I don't know how to if I explain the red cranberry yes it is okay that's the same any desserts at a particular we have we have our mince pies and pudding I actually have that at home yeah I mean my boyfriend brings all of that from them and he's like we I don't know what dessert wise are you gonna get married to this guy what's his name Matthew good English name yeah I have no idea I tried to you know just how long be really going together almost year and a half okay yeah so how are you in love you whoa are you easy you I maintenance oh you complicated simple what makes you happy what makes me happy I don't know I guess I I what makes me happy is when I feel loved when I feel loved by the people I care about that's what makes me happy surely there were those people that spend time with you mm-hmm so if that's if the state is being loved you are always loved by your parents you're always loved by your family so are you always happy because you always love those people aren't gonna stop loving you tomorrow is it a bit more than that I think it's more it's it stays it that simple I sometimes I know that they love me for example like my mom or my dad but I want I want to feel that they love me and when sometimes that you want him to show proof of love yeah actions yeah you want to be loved and appreciated yeah your happiest loved and appreciated so if I was a photographer loving the work that we did mm-hmm that would be the greatest day yeah oh then I go home and I'm I'm so happy I hate to if you're doing a shoot and you're trying this or this but you kind of feel that it's good but you know like I want to go home and be like wow we just killed it killed it we did the best editorial so you want feedback for the photography you want the photographer telling you how great you are and how beautiful you look yeah or if it's not good I don't mind that he mentions it but I want food I need feedback do you like to be directed or do you like to do your own thing do you like to find the essence of the picture of the story I want do you want a structure I want some structure but not too much because I've had it before that they've tried to put you in this pose or as a mother day so this and then it just never looked effortless you wanna shoot or editorial to look alive yeah yeah like you you look at it and you kind of believe it or you can feel it and you can just tell if it's true if it's been to put in place yes it philosophy of life so what's it all about what is the meaning of life for you apart is it is it just love and be loved I'm putting words in your mouth philosophical I think the meaning of life is to hmm have you had any of these thoughts yeah III those were all even like things that we when I did ancient you know yes perhaps I think I'm what are we I'm a very positive person so even if something difficult will happen I will always try it see the flipside of it mm-hmm I think the meaning of life is I don't really know for me it's just that I I see life is like a big playground so enjoy it live have fun have fun along the way because you you'll be here and for example right now I'm doing modeling and I probably won't do it until I'm seven years old and it's tough and sometimes I hate my job but that's only 0.1% of the time what do you hate about it what are the specific things that you don't like about modeling what you would like to change about this that it's so last-minute but sometimes up until like oh right yeah that doesn't distinguish you as a human being that actually yeah I can do it yeah for example you make plans to see your family or this or this and then they oh but you have this booking or oh they moved it or or sometimes oh you're booked on this job so you plan your holiday after for a shorter period and then they're like yeah the client hasn't received the product blah blah so it's off and then like well then I could have gone to need some holidays yes so the the basic nature of nothing being certain and it the longer I do modeling the more I feel like clients make decisions more last-minute hmm really pushing it up until the last moment I think I I don't know but I when I first started that feel like we you would get confirmed a bit more in advance and also it would mean something more so came with something sped up a bit more yeah yeah or even even with options it used to be an option is like oh you have a good chance of getting a job but now in New York an option is like maybe they have a hundred girls in options or 200 girls it doesn't really mean anything so what about social media now and that and the impact that that's made on you and your modeling if I think just that there is more competition in the sense of that you also compete with people that got famous because of Instagram and that more like lifestyle people and and and and famous deal influencers like Gigi Hadid and Jenner and that's a big deal and and you really yeah some clients love that you're you're kind of like a celebrity mm-hmm and the sun's becoming important yeah you have a following I mean I have following and I tried to post on my social media etc etc but I find it hard though because you maybe I should maybe I should try and explore with it more like now like doing live videos and stuff like right yeah and maybe I've done it like once or twice only okay yeah okay do you do a daily stories thing yeah usually I post things during the day but not it depends when I'm in New York there's all I'm always doing things so I feel like I have a lot to post but sometimes if I go home I just also like to just be home it feels like such a safe environment almost that I yeah you don't want to put it out there so much that it's out there for the whole world yes exactly let's go back to your love life because I'm aware than that so what do you find attractive in the guys that you've been out with and whatever what are you looking for in a relationship or for me because I'm myself like quite independent I find it very attractive if a guy doesn't need you yeah I mean even more that he has like life of his own a life of his own bare hands and a job that he's very passionate about this I could never be I don't think for me would work in the long term if I would be with someone who doesn't work and it's just like very negative and like do you know what they wants to do yeah if someone's passionate about something even though if it's not my passion I just enjoy listening to it like seeing that he wakes up and even though if it's early like oh yeah I'm gonna do this you know see what someone who's motivated and passionate and engaged in life maybe maybe like it doesn't matter what it is but like successful in what he does do you have a type either physically or otherwise I would say you have to be taller than you could see you're so bad II don't like tall guys you know the guys have been with Jordan yeah bigger guys yeah alpha alpha males alpha males yeah alpha males yeah and also I mean now I'm actually dating a white British guy which is like great but he's not real I would say I'm more naturally I kind of like more like southern types or totems yes swarthy oh yes worthier yeah I don't know what that means but darkest are more olive-skinned yes yeah right I say because that's to make healthy babies you know the attraction of the opposite yeah I guess it's more likely missing deep yeah biological drive that kind of thing yeah I think so making it something that's great you were still around I don't like to hold snow sometimes you just yeah I guessed personalities what if someone has a nice personality there will always be beautiful right so they there were all the people that you've been with have been nice people you've had good taste and I mean I haven't had that mini boyfriend so how do you think - so I like to I like to be able to other two though yeah yeah that's great hey and well that's there was a what a teenage boyfriend and now a boyfriend know what if you if you were also gonna count in the teenage then three like I had a teenage boyfriend okay it was your first boyfriend he was my first first boyfriend and my first time that I was like first love I was love head over heels it was love it was real not I mean I don't know I think it was really I think it was real I and I remember when we first started dating and like randomly the thought would like enter my mind that oh that's my boyfriend I would be like so yeah it was amazing that's amazing did he keep touch no now we kind of like lost contact but it was great for the time that we were together you know yeah how long was that like a year in our office okay but I mean it was not you didn't get your heart broke no I mean because those great loves when they have to end can be quite painful I guess I guess we didn't break up in the best way right and you buy a couple a break I broke up and was also I kind of also likes a lot of love and a bit with him and stuff and but it was great and he'd like to talk me a little bit on you know life and love you guys and and then I'd you know guys well because you lived with some brothers yeah yeah they weren't an unknown island you know we break we always go to the extreme I mean we it shuts off after a while okay when people get bored okay let me talk about your model start I'm gonna actually finish off this the main interview because you're so fantastic and you're so together and grounded mature thing was that for me like that's a really big compliment absolutely so I wish you the best I think you're amazingly built for the job and a pleasure and a delight to talk to it well it's I can only say the same it's so nice that a photographer takes the time to actually meet a model and talk to me and like being interested in my life and and and my vision on things and yeah it's very often you walk in and a second later you're like out again so that's exactly why yeah fantastic well you're amazing thank you so much bye-bye we didn't you didn't answer any questions maybe you should before you know I think we should just that's the polite thing to do yes of course grab it maybe and ask your followers if there are any question are there any questions and I can answer questions too because I've been listening the whole time people they buggered off people are very nice and that's but if anyone has any questions for me this is your opportunity yes get this every day no because I need I need to do this live video of things more often yes grab grab the opportunity guys Daphne wants your question yes I your questions if not I'm going to cut this there's a bit painful Matt awkward right okay then say goodbye thank you great see you did it that's live well done is your boyfriend watching I have no idea okay yeah I know he has a very stressful week he's been yeah apparently I didn't know but apparently a lot of clients want to shoot a bunch before the end of the year they need to use their budget right yes exactly and also yeah Christmas everything's gonna be slowly so he he says he's having the busiest week of his life okay that's good money yeah so definitely tell me about what you're wearing today um I'm actually wearing jeans that I got over the weekend in a secondhand store brand-new brand-new there's a secondhand it's a second out it's a it's a designer store in the East Village but everything you have is like Phillip blame or like a nice what's it called who makes it Emma these are I think rag and bone or okay was it and they were I mean I bought them for they were worth 40 and then the store gave 20 off so I got them for 20 bucks bug yeah fantastic top beautiful sweater I love that I think it's just zara yeah I'm actually today I'm just super sorry Namie Zara how much 40 bucks I can't really say oh you're watching expensive the watch I got from a Calvin Klein event they gave me free watch free watch lovely earrings yes the earrings were the religious bent no yeah with the religious Ben but I'm not really really it's a crucifix yeah I just wanted to get these earrings that were like a little bit longer that had like you know with my brown hair whose work like that so long right I know I know sorry I don't know if I only just got them like last week so I'm still figuring out I usually before I leave the house I ask the girl that lives in my apartment like what do you think of this look and then she gives like a quick like approval and she said you look good it's fine she approved of the a exactly of the criticize as I said before as I was like top on my when I first came always wear black black black my whole wardrobe was like black but because I have dark hair and eyebrows sometimes it's too bad it's a bit too too strong and then it's my feet you going yeah it's nice but I could go gothic you can any freak the casting directors out yeah but if you have a casting before let's say like gap or or something else then for them it's hard to imagine so I'm trying to to brighten it up a little bit by having like a few like plainer lighter colors love it what about your tea your my necklace yes it was so pretty fine yeah this I got on I think something like a Portobello Road markets you know Portobello market it's like one of those markets like out I love it yeah and then my rings oh that's a good story those I got I went on to Burma with myself fine look how thin those are yeah they're burly them they're handmade by a silversmiths love it in inland lake and I went back to Burma on a charity trip for three weeks my son was involved in charity because my mom's new boyfriend is a plastic surgeon okay and they traveled there and they operate children that have cleft lip and cleft palate fantastic and I won with them for three weeks and I made a photo documentary yeah and I got it published in you did a bunch of Belgian magazine amazing and I wrote a whole blog for Elle Belgium laughter yeah so for me it's like whenever I I wear them almost every day because it just reminds me of it's beautiful and it's so beautiful what about your boots my boots are costs costs cos cos is that an English brand I know it's it's in the same house as H&M okay yeah is it owned by Jeanette yeah I think it's like higher it's a bit higher than a gem yeah wicked fantastic thank you so much for telling me that stuff yeah of course thank you for what are you wearing uh what am i wearing I'm wearing a scarf by Yohji Yamamoto this at least 20 years old Wow bleah I thought I'd lose it immediately I didn't particularly like it I got it for a Christmas present my wife will tell you I looked witheringly at it when I opened it from the package and then I've worn it ever since every winter I quite like wow it has this it's simple but still yes the two sides are different I wear these polo necks I'm a real pearl Anette guy and that's from Uniqlo so I go I know a couple of these bear season because they're thin and cheap yeah so the elbows go everything goes holy very quickly yeah this is a sort of work shirt from j.crew mm-hmm and these trousers that I really like are by engineered garments who are my favorite what's engineered there a Japanese sort of work wear stroke army inspired brand here we're here in New York and they've made great stuff and of course Japanese cups because I'm so skinny and slight fit me really well belts my wife III Nick stuff from my mother and my wife but over the years and that's me love it it's a nice look thank you so much and the glasses of course yes yes I could