Brian Jungles, welcome to Acquiring Minds. >> Thanks, Will. Very excited to be here. >> Brian, you bought City Publications Atlanta, a direct advertising business for local service providers. The business was quite small. Your goal is to grow it 10x in 5 years. Let's dive in. Can we get some background on you, please, to begin, Brian? >> Absolutely. Yeah, so, um, I live in Atlanta. I've got, uh, two degrees from the University of Georgia. I had an advertising undergraduate. Um, went into big tech consulting, uh, program management, later into sales and account direction. Um, also have an MBA that I took, I got, um, a few years outside of school in Atlanta. So, a lot of time in Atlanta working locally. And, uh, I can get more into it, but really got the bug, uh, for ETA around 2023, 2024. And, um, got some inspiration that drove me ultimately to acquire the business. >> Well, Brian, give us a little bit more, uh, of your career history, so we understand where you're coming from. Your years at Adobe, et cetera. >> Sure. Yeah, so, I I came out of, uh, school and I worked at a digital agency here in Atlanta. Um, and so, we were supporting some of the big, uh, Fortune 500s in Atlanta, mostly with digital marketing software implementation services and consulting. Um, I was a program manager, so really learned the ropes from understanding business requirements and what are the businesses really asking of this technology. Uh, so, that really got me into the tech side. Most of the software we were, uh, recommending and implementing was the Adobe Experience Cloud Suite of Solutions, which is, if if folks aren't familiar, it's it's kind of the go-to suite for the the top companies for enterprises when it comes to digital marketing. We work alongside your Salesforce CRM and some of the other extensions that you've probably heard of. Um, so, there was a couple folks my boss brought me over from the agency into Adobe, which I was there for about 9 years. Uh, grew up through the program management side and consulting side, uh, within Adobe. And ultimately got went into consulting and in 2020 four I was an account director. So I actually managed a $34 million book of business owning the relationship with the C-suite. So that's mostly chief marketing officers, chief technology officers, intermediary between our technology and product teams and all the customer success and helping them realize the value out of their investment. So you know I always thought going into my career when I was earlier on and especially at Adobe, I don't know what path I'm going to take but I want a I want that C-suite title. Like I want to be influencing the business and running the business. And as I progressed to that account director role it's it's kind of the the pinnacle of where you can go as an individual contributor and I got a feel for what that looks like at the top at the same time starting a family. My wife and I have two girls now. And had kind of a values assessment. So all these things are happening at once and I'm actually thinking is this corporate ladder what I want to commit to? What's on the other side? So seeing how that C-suite operated and engaging with them personally and then at the same time I mentioned I got some inspiration. So I had a friend who left another company called Clary and bought a local boring business and that really turned me on to ETA. Historically I took the the bug or that feeling I had inside me as I want to influence business. I want to make capital allocation decisions and I actually looked down the road of venture capital and learned I wasn't necessarily on the right path. You know to to achieve a role like that. So I felt So I always thought well entrepreneurship's cool but I don't have a big idea. So So how do I channel that? I saw this guy leave as the sales role at at Clary and took over a business and he sort of turned it around and what I concluded is listen like I've got a stretch of really hard work in my career. At the end of that am I going to come out and have built something that can serve myself and my family and leave a legacy? Or am I going to have a Zoom happy hour which is what I was witnessing at Adobe? 12 people show up on a Thursday and you've worked there for 35 years and and that's it. That's it. So, >> >> that that turned me on to ETA. >> And Brian, when you talk about looking forward and seeing the C-suite and it not being appealing to you, is it the Zoom retirement call thing that turns you off or was it much more than that? What didn't you like? >> That was part of it. I also, you know, I I think about our girls growing up, right? And uh know, just how can I possibly have the lifestyle that it takes as an international company especially. Um I know those folks actually they you know, they live on the road. And I know I'll get emails from them on you know, 2:00 whether it's a Saturday night transition to Sunday or Tuesday transition to Wednesday cuz they're in Japan or Australia or what- whatever it is. Um and I really like the leadership part of it and the ability to uh organize a team around a mission at scale and you and leverage those resources. Uh but I also have a very strong desire to, you know, what if my daughter plays track or volleyball in high school like being there as well. Um so, this kind of what I saw this especially as I got into buy then build and the HBR review and and understanding more and talking to people in my network. It's like listen, this is not an easy path. This is a very, very difficult path but uh the results uh can be actually, you know, realizing the financial and the legacy goals that I have for myself and my family while also being very present uh with my family. >> Mhm. And when you had looked at venture capital for a while, what was it that turned you off ultimately about VC? >> I liked I really liked the VC. I had a frank conversation. Uh it was interesting that Adobe had a Adobe Ventures arm. And I looked the guy up through our internet and I called him and uh and he was like, "I can't believe you found me. Like we're not really doing this much anymore." Um I was thinking maybe I can just do a lateral move in there, learn the ropes, and go out. And he and he was just listen like I don't want to rain on your parade, but you know, if you are there's a couple ways to really get into big VC and it's not really corporate VC. It is you come out of business school and you go out as an analyst and then you work your way up or you're going to um or you can be a founder, right? And then um grow your company and you know, you exit and then you enter the VC world. Or he's like for you, you know, I'm I'm a program manager at Adobe and uh at the time considering my next path and he's like, you know, what I would do if you really want to commit to this, you need to start a portfolio, you need to place some literal literal or figurative, but allocate some capital to yourself and build a resume and a portfolio based on that and then that's how you get into the world and it's still going to be very hard and you're probably going to be 10 years later than a lot of folks entering. Uh and so, you know, I did it life was busy and and I I said, well, I'm not going to quit what I'm doing now. I'm on a good path. Um you know, I was I was rising through the ranks rapidly at Adobe and everything was going well by all means and it so it was a confluence of a few of those things that that said uh it's time time to shift. The thing that I probably didn't mention I I maybe touched on it. The other thing at Adobe is, you know, I'm in Atlanta. Um I've been I was working remote since 2015. They didn't know they have an an Atlanta office now, but it didn't open till 2022. So, I started in 2015. Um my boss was in New York. My headquarters were were in San Jose, California. I never went I never been to headquarters the entire time. So, it it felt very distant to me. My clients were in Massachusetts, in Chicago, some in North Carolina, that's the closest. And so, meanwhile, I've got this great community. I mentioned University of Georgia. What an especially the business school, Terry College of Business, what an amazing uh asset to somebody that's involved. I was chair of the young alumni board for a few years. Um and it just felt very separated. It felt like I was building equity in the business community and locally in Atlanta and the passions that I have for my for the neighborhood. And then my business said, you know, on paper and in and even by policies that Adobe said that that's great. Do all that stuff. We want you to be involved in the community, etc. But it was this effort of uh involvement here was not supporting the effort in my career growth and I also saw a big opportunity to to marry those things up by working locally. >> So, tell us more then about the appeal of entrepreneurship through acquisition. Why specifically that? We've heard why you didn't want to continue in corporate, why VC wasn't a fit, why you wanted to control your time, um and but at the same time really be able to pour yourself into something during the most productive years of your career. Um anything more to say about why buying a business was was the answer? >> Yeah, you know, I think uh buy then build and some of these learning more about the ETA community really brought shape around this feeling that I had of I think I could do something here as an entrepreneur, but I don't have the big idea. I'm not, you know, sitting here as Mark Zuckerberg in my dorm room. I don't I don't know what that is, uh but how cool would it be to to to find something? So, uh so that's when I you know, I do what I do whenever I'm trying to make a a big decision is just start tapping the network and ask as many people as I can, what do you know, who do you know that I could talk to about this whole concept of ETA. >> So, tell us some of the parameters of the search and what you kind of went out there looking for once you decided on ETA as the path. >> Yeah, the search was uh the search cadence was uh interesting. Um so, I I kind of get my heart set on this path and I start ingesting the content like let's start listening to Acquiring Minds, let's read all the books, let me ask everyone in my network. Pretty early on, a couple months in So, I So, I'm learning about what does a proper search look like? What's your thesis? How are you going to raise funds that, you know, etc. etc. As I'm doing this and I'm asking my network, one of the first conversations in my network was one of my good buddy said, "Hey, talk to my father-in-law. He's been in small business for a long time. Uh you know, he's got a lot of experience. He also left corporate about 20 years ago. And so he'd be a good resource. So of course I I took a call with him and and during that call he said, "Hey listen, like I've got this business. I know I haven't been putting what I I should be into this. It's I'm already to to move on into, you know, this retirement type phase. And uh, I think there's a lot of potential here. And uh, so I started I you know, I heard him out and that started to progress. Um, that was City Publications Atlanta. Um, so at that So I'm as I'm consuming all this, I'm also saying, "Well, this is the first, you know, real thing that's come across my my desk. And I hadn't even launched a formal search. I'm like learning about what a proper search looks like as this is developing. Um, so I told him I said, "Hey, I'm going to, you know, this I'm liking what I'm hearing so far, but let's I need to slow play this a little bit cuz I got to I can't do myself the disservice of not seeing what's out there." Um, so there was some ur- urgency on that deal. There were some other folks that were looking at it, which I was aware of. And uh, I engaged with a broker. Uh, you know, I'd been looking at BizBuySell the whole time, but hadn't gotten close to, you know, really reaching out. Just kind of learning what deals look like out there. What are the the multiples that different businesses are selling for. And uh, and the broker mostly was bringing uh, DeNovo franchise uh, builds. And uh, you know, it it is really it I I couldn't get the the thing that was really tugging at my gut was the relationship I had with the seller and the legacy of the business in Atlanta. City Publications has started under a different name in 1996 here. So we can I we can say we've been serving Atlanta, uh, connecting Atlanta with local uh, the local market for for 30 years now. And between that and and the trust with the seller and the trust that I felt with the rest of the franchise organization and the franchisor, um, it it felt like anything's going to be an unknown, but this is this is a pretty uh, there's some safeguards up with this unknown. >> And what about the kind of type of business that you wanted or the size of business that you wanted? Had you defined all of that for yourself yet? Or it was still kind of amorphous, but when this business this opportunity appeared, it just it felt right for reasons that hadn't actually really been defined yet. >> Yeah. Yeah, it was a little bit of both. I did want to and we'll talk about the financing a little bit, but I did want to avoid any kind of major financing given this was my first time truly getting into into business ownership. Having a lot of confidence in my ability given my experience in the in the educational background, but I didn't know what I didn't know and and that, you know, proved out. So, I think that was the right path. So, I did not consider I I The other thing I'll say about the timeline is once I had my heart set on it, I I couldn't get my mind off it. Right? So, if I I also did not assume I did not calculate time where I could have an unpaid search. Um so, I was working full-time while I was trying to do this search in my spare time. I needed to to continue to receive that salary and I needed a clean break. And so, there's only so much time and effort that I could put into it when I'm working, you know, much more than 40 hours a week trying to manage that book of business at Adobe anyway. >> Tell us more about the business then, Brian. What what is City Publications exactly? >> Mhm. Yeah, so you mentioned direct advertising. So, City Publications for the past 30 years has been supporting Atlanta local businesses in reaching their target market and that's over time has mostly been through print advertising targeted direct mail. When we talk about direct mail, we've got uh we talk about, you know, you'll think of a probably a postcard that you got in your mailbox. That is a lot of what we do. It could be very very tailored and targeted and and fully custom. Um Turns out when you're talking to home service businesses, when we talk about who do you want to reach, 90% of them have very similar targeting criteria. So, it lends itself to programs that are called shared mail programs, which is essentially, you know, either you create a, you know, all different form factors. One of the things we do is the Best of Atlanta card pack. That is a collection of locally owned home service businesses that all come together in like a deck of cards. That's a shared mail program. Um we also have a new movers, you know, home targeting new home owners is a really high value audience. So, we have something that goes out every month that targets that group. So, that's the recurring revenue. You're in the the Best of Atlanta card pack, you're in the new movers, you're in XYZ. We do We do community booklets to certain neighborhoods. And those are recurring So, you go, "Okay, sign up for You sign up for three three months, six months recurring, 12 months recurring." Um and then even but even on the the what we call solo mail, just a postcard campaign, just like any advertising, it's, you know, you you blast that one time and either you hit somebody on the right day or you didn't. They were home or they weren't. Um so, a lot of even those I work with the business owner to say, "Okay, what is an acceptable minimum where we feel good that we gave this a solid run?" Three consecutive months, controlling for seasonality, controlling for these other factors or or even longer if they say, like, "I want to go out quarterly." You know, we really continue to to push towards that sort of engagement, um cuz it truly is best for the advertiser uh to gain the repeat impressions. But then so, that but it yields the the recurring revenue status. >> Can you give us a sense of the size of the business? >> Uh yes. So, my um my current uh the the the territory with that I acquired historically showed uh in the the finances uh between 650, 750 uh thousand annually in revenue. Um and year one of acquisition uh held constant. So, I finished, I think, at 742,000 in revenue. Um and uh this year, you know, I'm I'm planning for growth. So, my goal for this year is to to break a million dollars in revenue. >> Great. And what about employees, earnings? Give us kind of the bullet points of the business and paint a picture. >> Sure. Yeah, um one of the opportunities I saw uh for growth was that the previous owner had no employees. Uh he actually had no contractors. So, he's leaning on the corporate uh team to execute the advertising and he is selling and maintaining relationships. He'd been doing this for 20 years. So, he had had some and he still has some incredible relationships within uh the industry in the market. Uh and so, you know, it for him it was, you know, you could call up some folks and and keep sales going enough to keep the business somewhat steady. And that's what he had been doing um according to the the legacy model. Um so, that actually was a huge uh help and I I'd say in the transition. When one of the things I talked about when we transitioned was, you know, that's a that's a big risk, the relationships that he has, right? Is it a one-man uh business? If he's if he goes, they all go. Uh and he said, you know, his words to me that I I remember when he said this, he's like, "These people are my best friends. It'll be weird if I was just ghosted on them." And and he wanted to make sure that uh the that the business transition went smoothly. >> Great. And Brian, say more about how he transitioned these relationships to you. >> First couple days in the business, I go, "I'm available." He wanted me to get started much earlier, but I uh you know, I would had to kind of have a clean break with Adobe. Um showed up at his house. We go through everything, literally everything. Brain dump. I'm filling out my spreadsheets. I'm kind of connecting the puzzle pieces. And um he'd set up one, two, or three meetings a day with the most loyal clients. And we'd go get a meal with them or go to their office and sit down. And he'd have something to, you know, as his normal course of business, he'd sit down with them and talk about whatever was on the agenda. But he'd bring me along and it was it was really like, hey you know Brian's on board I want you to meet him. Brian tell him about your background. Um he's going to help us grow this thing. We're going to get back in a growth mode and XYZ and and it all made sense for for the clients cuz I knew he's he's working towards retirement. So okay this guy's going to take over but it was really message it was it was message kind of ambiguously so it was kind of vague. Uh but the implication was I'm kind of buying him out over time in reality you know he had the cash uh and I had the business and uh I cannot express express how grateful I am for for the way that was done. Um he will still you know get somebody call him and he tell me somebody sometimes somebody did business with five years ago give me a call and be like hey can can we start something up and he just forward them forward them on to me. >> >> And uh so I I still talk to him at least weekly. Um he is a he's a great guy um and uh and and so that cadence of introduction and it was funny there was still no formal announcement but I just started doing more as I assume more of the relationships. I started you know sending out the monthly customer newsletter. I started doing this and that and so kind of taking the leads and they and they said okay so like what's your status of of the buyout and I go yeah you know I bought it out. It's it's mine nowadays. He's still involved. He's he's supporting me. I talk to him. We still talk all the time but and so they go okay okay okay. So it gave me time to kind of introduce in a controlled manner. Here are some new things. Here are some new things. He's still visible. Um and and you know I don't I don't know how I would have pulled it off if it was more of a black and white uh it was him and then it's me one day than the next. >> Yeah. But it was from the get-go it was kind of implied that you were going to be taking ownership at some point. >> Yeah. Yeah exactly. Yeah. It was just an overtime thing instead of uh you know just just introducing the new guy and dropping the mic. >> So Brian this was really buying a job. It was a one-man business. Um and it was um it it sounds like it was a very particular function, which was relationship management. That actually even the service delivery, the the development of the postcards and the graphics work and the mailing, all of the actual distribution of these marketing pieces was done by the franchisor. And so, it it feels like while it is a franchisor franchisee relationship, it was almost like a sales relationship for a business, that he was a salesman for the franchisor or for corporate. >> Right. Yeah, and that's one of the things when when I look at it and I saw the opportunity, I was I'm kind of adding it up like, what are your responsibilities? Let's Let's understand this. This, this, and this. Okay, and you know, knowing that the when you're trying to grow a business versus when you're just getting to retirement, there's a very different level of effort that goes in. So, one of the things I remember saying that I always now luckily I kind of chuckle about was you know, if I simply work 5 days a week and put the same effort that I'm putting in at Adobe to this business, it's going to take off. And now I know that's a very ignorant thing to say, but um, you know, that that's really how it was and it was a little bit I underestimated how effortless that was for him being there for so long, but but that's correct. So, so that's how it was painting for me. Now, when I get in and understand what growth actually looks like and I talked about my how I calculated EBITDA, there's a the true story was a bit different. When I understand what a actual quality of earnings looks like. So, I actually, you know, it it it's it's required putting the foot on the gas and now that I see these scale up, you mentioned 10X in 5 years. That requires staffing, right? So, that's a lot of change management. It it it means introducing a culture that's not just in my head, but creating it for the employees and contractors that I'm working with and in making investments and making bets that may or may may not pay off. Um, so I really see the the the attract what I learned is opportunity is is a lot of work. Growth is a lot of work. Um so yeah, that that's an accurate uh picture of how things that had been when I came in into the into the business, but it's a it's been an an adventure since. >> Brian, you said that he didn't have his, you know, foot on the gas sort of thing. And so he was maintaining relationships, um but not aggressively trying to grow the business. And so, you know, your calculation uh is the same as many business buyers for a business like this where um the previous owner is just not applying themselves like they once did or could. Uh they're kind of resting on their laurels. And if you just, you know, take their 20 hours a week and make it 40 hours a week, you should be able to see a lot more um results. On the other hand, the there's this concept of of sort of seller hours. So 1 hour of his time might translate to three of yours just cuz he knows this business like the back of his hand. And so so he just does everything more efficiently. It sounds like some of that crept in as well. Why did your calculation of like, well, if I just put in the same amount of time I was putting in in my corporate job, um I'll take this to the moon. There there was something there that you'd overlooked. What was it? >> Yeah. Well, it's actually one of the more interesting things is market testing the ideas I had, right? So there's a couple challenges. One, I was I'm just so ignorant on how exactly the dynamics of implementing some of these ideas would work. Um I assumed some level of infrastructure that's there in corporate and it's simply I can have an idea and I can roll it out and then the next month it will be live. Um ideas take infrastructure where it's technology infrastructure or it's people and process infrastructure that what that didn't exist. Um people and even on the client side, people have been used to doing it that way for many, many years. So also, you know, when I when I bring ideas to clients, are they always going to be open to innovation? Um there is a there is a period where I'm just getting a hold on things. I'm I'm actually having the business in my tracking for the first time recalculating the costs now that I'm actually having invoices come in and at some point saying, "Wait a second. I thought your costs were this. It looks like they're this." Um, that takes up a lot of head space in in focus as I'm learning QuickBooks for the first time. So, uh, and but on the also on you know, let's say all that's cared for. There's a culture when a business is coasting, there's a culture of expectation with the client that that business is going to coast. Um, and so when a new person comes in and change is introduced, no matter how positive I think that change is even if I come out in my one thing I I struggle with is a CMO speak, right? Fortune 100 C-level executive presentation is a lot different than uh, you know, local painter, plumber, business owner presentation on how we're going to deliver value. The the language is different and and so that culture shift in myself, okay, there's actually going to be a time period where number one, I got to understand what the hell's going on here. Then I need to gain the trust of the client base and then I need to understand how to articulate that properly in a way that this market will be receptive and that really took most of of the first year uh, before I could I could say, "All right, let's start putting these some of these ideas in market." The good news is after I go through all that, a lot of those ideas had changed. I I thought based on my experience we could do X, Y, and Z and that and and instead it's A, B, and C that's actually the the things that people need cuz I had to stop and listen so much. >> Well, what a perfect example of buying a business best practices where you think from the outside you have all these great ideas that uh, that everybody else inside the business has slept on or whatever or you're bringing new eyes or a different a different experience set than the previous owner had and you're going to transform the business or grow the business with all these great new ideas. And then you get into the business and find out that all of these theses that you had um, won't work for X Y or Z reason. But you and but your exposure to the business and now being the owner and living the business for a year shows you where the that there are still opportunities, they're just not the ones you thought. But it's just so it's just such a it's just such a familiar pattern. Anything anything to add to that because it's it's it mean it's almost like business buyers kind of shouldn't have almost shouldn't have ideas. They should they should maybe see a business where there's a very broad macroeconomic you know, a macroeconomic thesis there evidence of tailwinds a seller who's clearly kind of taken their foot off the gas, but very specific ideas about how you can transform that business. Maybe don't even waste your time on having those because they're almost certain to to you know, not be the right ones then you you'll learn what the right ones are but not until you get in there or am I overstating it? >> No, I think one thing I would not do is assume growth when you are looking at finances, right? The whole 20 to 40 if I simply put in 40 hours a week then it'll grow so I can factor that in I maybe give some leeway into what I see this maybe have a question about this line item but it's not going to be an issue because you know, sales are going to increase anyway. Look at the business for what it is and do not pay for growth that you are going to drive. Um I think that my experience and I'm so grateful for all the lessons that I've I've learned but but I have I have learned a lot and and I didn't understand how much I had to learn. It's another way we talked in the pre-call a little bit about how the small purchase was actually how I hedge right you know, sometimes we talk about large purchases how you hedge against some of the stuff and it would hedge in a different way if there was a team that stayed on and they could run a system They had the systems to begin with. Um but I was able to uh learn these lessons in a way that, you know, if I underestimated working capital, then it doesn't mean that I'm missing payroll and people are, you know, not they're not feeding their families that week. Uh so I've learned those lessons on my dime and I just I feel like I am just miles uh you know, with more wisdom and experience than the Adobe career and the NBA and and all this experience I thought I had has been totally humbling and uh I would just encourage a searcher to expect something like that more than like Don't get it Don't The pride comes before the fall. So don't get too prideful. >> Yeah. Well, we're going to get into more about the your point about buying small and and how you saw that as a hedge here in just a second. But just to close out on why more on why this business. First of all, there it seems like there was great business buyer fit because you had all of this sort of marketing sophistication coming out of Adobe. And this is fundamentally a marketing advertising business. Um and and you knew that there was also this this um trust factor because you knew the seller or at least you kind of shared a network. Anything more to say about what it was about this particular business that you liked other than size and we're going to get to the size in a sec. >> Sure. Yeah, I'll get into uh I think there's there's three converging themes uh that I saw and have just been a huge advantage for me. Uh number one, so and before that I'll just brief story of When I work When I was at Adobe, we're doing these big implementations of managing this this digital marketing infrastructure and we do this complex customer journey uh platform and you get all your data, you connect it here, here, push your ads out to the digital channel, your email, your website, or XYZ. And these big Fortune 100, Fortune 5 companies every consistently out here, can this integrate with my direct mail? And I'd say, Why? Why do you need to dinner Like why are you doing direct mail? And they'd always say, "This is one of our highest performing channels." Um and I we'd say, "Okay, yeah, sure." Um but, you know, I was I thought of it as as old school, and I had that conception, but I still had something in the back of my mind. So, there's three themes that I think make it me unique as a great fit for this business that I've I've seen playing out. Number one is a concept that we call the analog revolution. And this is the pushback and distaste of just the unbridled progression of technology, especially when it comes to ad tech. Uh ad blindness online, when anyone can create an infinite amount of content, and anyone has access to distribution through the social media channels or advertising networks, then there is just a lot out there, and it's so hard to stand out. Um you'll see uh you know, I'll get put targeted with stuff that's like, "I replaced my marketing team with this one AI prompt." Okay, well, when the AI prompt is controlling everybody, everybody's marketing's going to look the same. So, how do we stand out? Meanwhile, the data maturity I talked about the data that we have access to on homes and homeowners, I that this data has come such a long way in terms of targeting. So, we basically take all the data sources that you can use for digital marketing targeting, and it's layered on home data that comes from public records and deeds and home sales, etc. Highly valuable stuff for home services and and other people that want to reach homeowners. The the the part of the and the third theme that kind of goes into that is complacency in the industry. It is a you know, not a lot has changed in terms of who's kind of the incumbents in this industry. There aren't people that are coming from the digital marketing side into the print side. Now, there's a couple of companies that I follow that I think are doing an awesome job that like integrate with Shopify and they'll essentially activate direct mail use cases where it used to be email use cases, but now all email goes to the spam filter. Well, there's no spam filter ad blocker in the mailbox. Um so, when you know the questions to ask, when you have done this sort of configuration and implementation at the C-level at Fortune 500s, and then you you after I've taken the time to understand how to speak this language to smaller businesses, we that's that's where it really comes down to man, this audience is really powerful. And we also have a really powerful way with advertising tactic that you can feel that you can hold on to in your home for months. And when you're ready to act, then you know who to call. It builds trust and it's highly local. And then the complacency I'd say in the industry is when I talk to these clients and then you know, I'm I'm moving from a And this is what I my whole goal all along like we're going to move from a order taker vendor to strategic partner. And I'm going to sit down with you and we're going to understand what exactly are your needs and we're going to tailor a marketing and outreach campaign to those needs. Um So it a lot of that experience and some of it comes part of my thesis and and a lot of it's been unexpected and and has played a lot bigger role than I expected to in this new world. >> But Brian, when you had skepticism about direct mail during your Adobe days and saw it as old school and stuff as probably many listeners do. So what how did you cross the um how did you change your mind on that to get comfortable around this business? Maybe you didn't have skepticism. Maybe maybe you were hearing from Fortune 500s that it that it really worked. And so you had the opposite of maybe it was the opposite. Maybe I mischaracterized it. >> No, it's you know, it was kind of like it was kind of like it wasn't the opposite. It was somewhere in between. It was I have an inkling that this is this is this works. I just I don't see how yet. Um talking to this business that's sustained for 30 years that's been through 2010 Facebook, Google really hyping up the ad marketplace online, you know, COVID, everything else. It's it's sustained. Um the industry I mean just looking at the industry TAM you know, it's it continues to grow. It's not at an astounding rate. Um but you know, there's a lot of literature out there that uh only is it still relevant. in fact I don't like when people say it's still relevant. It's actually more relevant than ever. Um and and when you talk to people and and and have this conversation and they go, "Yeah, you know what? When I when I get a postcard you everyone goes, "I just throw those things away." All right, well you get a digital ad impression. Do you even see it? You know, the worst case here is you're you're walking from your mailbox to your trash can and you're holding something. You get a you feel it, you touch it. Uh you know, I guess you could smell it. Uh but there is a lasting impression uh that the brand makes on you. And then the the best case like I mentioned is is that it does sustain. Um and then the last thing I'll say about that regarding TAM, I actually recently engaged I had uh the the pleasure to engage with the Emory and Georgia Tech, two local uh universities that their MBA program did pro bono consulting through one of their their clubs and and they did a growth exercise for me which was exactly what we talked about uh 10x in 5 years. And um I don't have the numbers up in front of me but essentially said that the market size here is you know, not an issue. Atlanta has an incredible number of home service businesses um that are spending on marketing. It's highly competitive so they need to they need to be smarter than each other and that compared with direct mail industry figures, you know, it's I need I don't recall the exact number but it was you know, honestly with that combined with the complacency I mentioned, if there is a guy that's going to be me that goes out and goes, "This is not your grandfather's direct mail. We're taking modern tactics to a legacy media and we're going to make we're going to drop we're going to make this data-driven and we're going to show real change in the the numbers that you care about and the KPIs for your business." That's the opportunity. >> Yeah. Well, one little side observation. The other thing that we've heard about in our world a lot, Brian, is how home service advertising, of course, has gone all online, all digital starting about 10 years ago. Um but that those cost per clicks have just gone sky high. And so in a completely saturated online marketing, digital marketing, paper click environment, this is a really ripe moment for you to come in and say we offer an alternative to spending all your money on you know Google ads and Facebook ads and so on which probably a lot of little guys have been priced out of. >> Yeah, I'd say so and the you know I talk about the where I didn't think I didn't know that my background was going to play such a a big role but the attribution part right? You know we Adobe's got a tool called analytics. We had attribution AI. You know I had now I was more on the on the sales side but I had been in meetings with C-suite talking about how we're going to make sense of all this data and price and we're going to attribute exactly you know what spend is driving what return and so just having that experience at my disposal when I go in I can I can speak the language I can traverse the entire marketing environment. We're spending this we're seeing this. We're spending this. We're seeing this. Put it all together. All right, here's where I go next and it's never you know just switch all your budget to direct mail but it's enough to say let's start a controlled trial. We're going to take an acceptable budget. We're going to be very specific and measure return. We're going to be very targeted on who who your audience is and then we're going to see if it's a you know if it's a good fit to continue ongoing and and more often than not that approach is is worked well and and driven some growth. >> Brian, let's hear more on what we touched on a minute ago about how you wanted to buy small. You embraced buying small which is a little bit counter to the conventional wisdom which is kind of buy as big as you can or buy you know million dollars of earnings if you can for reasons of stability, for reasons of being able to reinvest, for reasons of higher quality revenue and the business is likely more durable at that size. Um the reasons that people have heard many times buying small means a lot more fragility it would seem in in business itself but there can be benefits as well. How did you think about it? >> Yeah, I would say, you know, if someone's looking at buying a small the the leg- I mentioned the legacy. I mean, 30 years local reputation just critical um to fall back on. So, um you know, I I speaking of the risk, early on I you know, I did say, "Well, well, how much can I can I afford?" Um you know, I mentioned with the the full-time job I I didn't feel that I had a I had the bandwidth necessarily to open up a funded search to uh to raise capital and and and do this full-time. So, but I did look at, you know, going bigger. Um the HBR guide and and others kind of assume the the SBA route. So, I I certainly looked into SBA and um I think it's it's Live Oak Bank that a lot of people use that some someone referred me to. And I you know, I was surprised that the rates the interest rates were you know, they were uh very high. So, I think I was quoted, you know, 12 to 14% interest and um that was going to be a recurring uh payment right off the bat. And I had uncertainty on the business cash flow uh and that so I saw that as a significant risk and and something that I wouldn't, you know, be able to just kind of pivot out of. So, as far as a scope for uh when I when I define what can I afford, uh I'm thinking I'm leaving Adobe. Uh over time at Adobe, they you know, I've gathered restricted stock units and employee stock purchase program. Uh so, I had a big concentration of of wealth within the company. Uh if I'm leaving Adobe, I'm going to stop getting those and you know, essentially by betting on myself, I should kind of take some of that money off the table and not bet on a company where I'm not even working. Uh so, I was I I liquidated some of that position. Um and then we we went through an exercise of consolidating everything that we could into our uh primary uh bank where we've got our our um our uh financial manager um uh overseeing the the investments and the other things that we had. Um so, that's all combined. So, I've kind of max- maximized the collateral uh with a bank that we're with and uh worked with them to open up a liquidity line. So, it was a essentially a line of credit um that I was able to borrow against to get cash with no obligation to repay. Uh and that's why it gains interest at about half the rate of what an SBA loan loan would. Um and I did make a habit of paying that interest every month, but if I needed to skip a couple months cuz the cash flow wasn't there, then I could do that without penalty. >> Okay. Hold on a second here, Brian. We got to unpack this. >> Yeah. >> Uh so, you choose not to do SBA because of the the interest rates are so high. Um and because of the it's a it's a traditional loan. So, every month you're going to have to hit that make that loan payment. You with your current bank for your personal liquidity, you they offer you a line of cre- What was it? What was the instrument? >> Yeah, they call it a liquidity access line, LAL. It's a line of credit. Mhm. >> A line of credit. And you used that to buy the business and and we actually haven't touched up with the acquisition price. What What is that? >> Yeah, so I uh like I said, I estimated about 150,000 SDE. Uh so, I was looking for 2 2.5 to 4x uh purchase price, which would have been 375 to 600,000. Um had the conversation with the owner. He asked for 400,000. I said, "That's uh on the lower end of my range." So, uh there wasn't a lot of negotiation. Uh I mentioned there was another buyer that had not uh submitted anything official, but you know, he's essentially saying I'm I'm like entertaining this other offer, too. And you know, very potentially just uh some sales tactics. Uh but I said, "Look, this it's going to be a leap of faith, like I've said before, for many respects. This seems like a fair price. Um so, what I did is so, I tapped uh I've looked recently. I tapped 332,000 from that liquidity access line. And then from the liquid some of the liquidation of my uh stock that I had with Adobe, I I funded the rest of what is that? Uh 68,000 or so. And um and then so, I bought the business for cash and I and and that was a personal loan to the business that now the business is repaying me back and will pay down the liquidity access line. >> Okay. So, so the the purchase price is $400,000. And you And so, this I'm going to call it a line of credit. You How did you arrive at the I've never just never had I've never heard of this. So, you basically get a line of credit, a personal line of credit for 330,000 or whatever it was. And you use that to buy the business in cash. The terms of this line of credit are way more favorable than an SBA loan because the interest is about half, first of all, huge. And it's not it's a line of credit, so you're not actually you haven't taken a loan that you're then servicing with a loan payment every month. You can pay it back uh according to your own schedule. Right Correct so far? >> Yeah, that's right. Um so, the there is a calculation based on the investments that I have with the bank that they consider collateral. It's something like 60 cents on the dollar, 50 cents on the dollar per invested asset, so I don't need to liquidate some of the securities or try or uh the other in investments that I have, but a cash cash at the bank is dollar for dollar. Uh so, based on the the spread of of of everything that the family our family had at at this bank, they they determined the uh permissible amount. And then the rate is determined by uh SOFR, which I'm still not exactly sure what what that is. It's a standard rate interest rate plus 3% spread. So right now that is 3.6 SOFR is 3.6 and at the time it was about 4.5. So 4.5 plus 3 is about 7 7.5 was my interest rate at the time and it's variable so it's lower now. >> Okay. And your repayment looks like what? How do you repay this money? What's the amortization? How does that work? >> I've set it up automatically to draw the interest so at least I'm not I'm not gathering you know that the total amount is is not ballooning as we speak but I'm I'm keeping the interest payment down and then over time right there is there's repayment right if I'm you know if I've got the cash depending on the seasonality and and you know what's going on with the business and I'll pay down a chunk and a chunk and a chunk. Um but but yeah there's there's just a lot of flexibility there. So so we talked about early in the business not no obligation to repay a loan monthly and no payroll monthly and I I really used that early on. >> Exactly. So I used the word amortization because this isn't a loan there is no amortization schedule. This is more like paying down your credit card. Except >> Yeah exactly. Yeah it's like having a big credit card balance without a solid due date. >> Okay. And and so sorry say again the calculation for what they would how much of this cash they would extend to you how much of this credit they would extend to you is half of what you have with them or twice of what you have it with them? >> Invested assets were collateralized at I don't remember the exact number but it was about 50 60 cents on the dollar so if I have $10 then it counts as five as collateral or six as collateral. But any cash that we had with them was dollar for dollar. $10 equals $10 of in the line of credit. >> Okay. So you you had to add some hundreds of thousands of dollars in investments in your account for them to give you this $330,000 of capital of >> Yeah. So, the Adobe stock moving over um 401k investment moving over. Like, these are things that I had been contributing to for 12 years uh in corporate that were now under the umbrella that that served as collateral. Um so, I had looked into, you know, HELOCs, robs, everything. And this was just, you know, far and away the the the the best uh way to access uh you know, the cash or you know, the the capital um with as little dependency on others uh as possible. So, again, just totally betting on myself. >> Yeah. No, it's it's really interesting. I haven't heard anybody talk about this. Now, this is probably something that um this probably only works when somebody has material savings, which you did, obviously, like a balance sheet, um and is buying a small a quite small business. The those two things both have to be true um for this to work out. Um but if you can swing it, uh pretty pretty good deal structure, I'd say. Now, back to this betting on yourself and the lack of dependencies. So, so, say say more about that. So, you wanted to de-risk your first acquisition, meaning not have investors, not have stakeholders other than yourself, essentially, right? So, say more about this kind of philosophical approach. I don't think we covered it. >> Yeah. Yeah. You know, I think um you know, part of it was if the business is this small and it's sustained at a steady rate for, you know, this long, then there is a basis there to grow and the upside must be huge. Um we talked about the the 20 to 40 hours a week thing. Uh so, I think that was that was a big part of of what made that attractive. But the Yeah, I think the, you know, I had the conversation uh with my wife, obviously, early on, and she was incredibly supportive of the whole, you know, what does this look like in 10 or 15 years? Where does this put us in our family and and me specifically and and my obligations to my career? And and so in that sense it's it's you know, how do we maximize the uh the how do we maximize alignment with with that principle and not open this up to okay, well, there's something out of my control or that you know, ends up bringing us down or the worst you know, the absolute worst case scenario is you know, if this does let's say this fail let's say I you know, the the acquisition does not go how we want it to go or or down the road I last a year last 2 years. I decide to fold it up, right? Then we've got the loan. I can get back into a corporate corporate role and and get a paycheck and just pay this thing down over time versus being stuck with you know, how how am I going to figure out how to how to get the rest of this loan off my back. Um So so yeah, I think I kind of think the the smaller the it's see it as kind of a a controlled now I would experiment is probably too simplistic, but this is a way to in a controlled setting to learn how much I don't know. And I see I really like I said that you know, how much I've learned over the past year and a half I now I would have the confidence to go okay, you know, if I want to do the next one or you know, if I sell this into the next thing or do an acquisition then like I've been through this. Let's go big. >> Okay, so I I I may be beating this to death and it's pretty simple. A smaller business for a guy who has not yet been an entrepreneur. You just felt was less less of a a bite for your first bite. So no employees to worry about. That's its own piece of business ownership that is complex and difficult. No investors to answer to. No big onerous loan payment every month. The the this is going to be a a small amount of debt because it's a small business and because of this flexible instrument that you have, you're not you don't have to make that loan payment every month unlike a an SBA loan where there is no room for error. Um so in all of these ways it was just um it was just uh it felt less risky. >> Essentially. >> Exactly. Um as as a project, as a next step in your career. Even if the business itself the business itself might have been a slightly riskier business than say you know, a business throwing off a million dollars of earnings. >> Yeah yes, exactly. Yeah, there's no Yeah, so if you're considering this, I would say in your buying especially a a one-person operation I would be so strict on the criteria that that business must have just like any we talk about, right? Documented and proven systems, work and run without that person so that there's no concern that that of the exit of the owner. Um or and or even better both is the legacy uh the legacy status, right? That that this has sustained and there's something here uh that you can grow and build. Um so yeah, I don't think I I think there is certainly all the risk that people probably assume with with any any given very small business is probably uh applies to to my situation as well, but I I think it was a great uh confluence of of some of these trends that were actually maybe counterintuitive, uh but a lot of it the the legacy, the owner relationship, these are really about about trust that I saw that those were also de-risked in the situation. >> Yeah. And now that you've been in it for a year and a half, you closed in December 2024, now that you've been in it for a year and a half, you feel like already after 18 months as a business owner that you could go bigger next time? >> I I could go bigger than I than I did this time. Um I've also just, you know, it's like the more you know, the more questions you have. I've been I've been just so humble to uh understand how much there is to learn. So, I do not have In fact, I'm probably down a a peg in in how much uh I think my my resume and uh you know, makes me made me qualified to to run a large business. I think I I I go a step up. I learned so much about manage So, I've had a lot of luck with offshore staffing. Um so, I have folks that are supporting operations. I've got fractional roles helping here and there. And so, I've So, so it's not Well, it's not a payroll uh that I have to manage. There is orienting a team around this mission and vision. And yeah, I could I could take that a step up. Uh but I have no delusions that, you know, I could take over a lot of my clients' businesses, right? Like I'm I'm serving folks that I have a lot of folks that acquire businesses like I did. And they acquire a renovations company or a fence company or this or that. Um and we talk about this all the time just just how humbling that is uh in in in terms of how much there really is to learn. So, I'm very realistic about that ongoing as well. >> And so, you had even though it sounds like you were pretty humble coming in, you you needed to be even more so. What what What has been so humbling about this this process? >> >> Yeah. Yeah. Um I know we talk about the fetal position moments. Uh there wasn't anything where I, you know, I said, "What have I done? What a mistake." It was like, "Wow, what am I going to What am I going to learn here?" Uh I think the one the one person operation, you just wear so so many hats. And I mentioned learning QuickBooks jokingly, but uh I get that first month of just invoicing. And I'm, you know, still I'm still like watching the training videos on QuickBooks. And meanwhile, if I'm going to get any cash in the business, then I need to actually properly uh you know, send these invoices. And And also, I need to do it in a in a way that honors the relationship that we have. I'm the new guy sending invoices. It's a very precarious situation to be in. Um And uh And so, like losing a day, right? Uh in sales and business development or doing this or that on any given thing that comes up, um, is is you know, just I I think when I especially maybe month two, three, four in at the end of the day at night, I just been like, you know, man, I don't know how much progress I'm making here. Always getting backwards. And meanwhile, there's basics that I still don't understand in an industry, right? Where I saw I I assumed the industry I was working in was not not superior, but maybe more encompassing, right? Like we're we're supporting the entire vision of marketing for Fortune 500s. Now I'm doing this one thing for small businesses. But the you know, like I said, the the way that a textbook is different than relationships. When you introduce people in the mix, people have expectations, they have different motivations. Some people don't want me to be a strategic partner. They just want to send me an order when they need postcards. And and so when I push for that relationship, that's they don't want that. They think they have a guy for that or they're they're too busy or XYZ. And uh, and and so setting my own expectations, um, it's been a big lesson. But I mean, honestly, uh, Will, I think, you know, it's made me discover so much about myself. Um, I've gotten very into uh, more into my faith over the past year and a half and that's been a huge uh, factor in all this. When you talk about humility and setting expectations and just understanding that things happen for a reason. When you're going through a hard time, it's cuz you're learning something. And now I look back and I realize like with gratitude how much I've learned and I'm so much more fulfilled and I and I think if I stayed at Adobe and I did that 35 years and then I had the Zoom retirement party, I would be ignorant to all this. And and I would have never known the the better. Um, so we were talking about, you know, I you know, I think if there were if there ever a if there were a situation where I moved, you know, took a different direction and and the business was on the market and and it was going for even less than I paid for it. I would say, "Listen, I the the the tuition that I have paid for in this experience is is invaluable." And I truly mean that. And that's part of the reason I think like the growing the business in the ETA is so rewarding because you do you you can do the thing that we all think we're going to do, which is just take something and make it great cuz we're we have ideas. Uh but the journey along the way is it's it's that's a a huge part of it as well that I didn't expect. >> Yeah. That's well put. >> >> Brian, we've said this is a franchise. This is an unusual franchise. We think of franchises as first of all, larger businesses than this franchisor is. I assume this franchisor must have, you know, a a handful of franchisees because a a business like this is probably only in the major metro areas around the country. >> Yeah, that's right. So, there's uh I think there's 11 active markets right now. And it is, you know, you need some you need some uh minimum uh threshold of businesses of especially in the home services. That's really what the case studies that we have and the experience we can point to. So, yeah, those those big suburban areas around uh around cities is is really where you can find City Publications. >> Okay. And so so this is a but it is a franchisor still and all. Um how did you diligence how did you diligence it? Does a business I mean it must have an FDD even though it's really small. How big is the corporate office? Give a Give us a picture. I mean, again, we think of franchisors as kind of big corporations and this is not that. >> Yeah. Yeah, which I meant like the the the access is is really great. I'm you know, tomorrow I'm going in and we're going to sit in the office with the CEO and we exchange ideas. Um so, I've enjoyed that part of it. Now, the the due diligence on the franchisor was uh very was brief. Right? So, I had legal review of the FDD and my franchise agreement, but the legal review was mostly is this a fair does this is this fair does according to industry standards does the FDD meet all the obligations that an FDD needs to fulfill. So, what I didn't do necessarily which I encourage people to do entering a franchise relationship is do some scenario planning. Ask them based on what you've seen, let's say things go this way or they go this way, what am I on the hook for? If I need this help, what does that mean? At that point in the deal, I was I had my heart set on the business and I was kind of in burn the burn the boats mentality. Like I'm this is going to be my thing. It's a So, I have a 5-year term. This is me my thing for 5 years. I think I'm going to I'm going to crush it. I'm so pumped and excited to move on to this thing, see what I can do. Attorney says FDD is, you know, up to snuff it's according to standards, let's sign it. And you know, it turns out by nature most FDDs are are very one-sided. You know, you look and it's there's minimal commitments from the franchisor and and you know, there's royalties and fees and this and that. So, what I would do is is I part of setting my own expectations was 2 months down the road by the time it's By the way, it's time to pay this fee which you know, I I should have been very aware of and and you know, it's just it's a thing after I was spending all day fighting with QuickBooks and then I learn about that and and that hit my expectations. So, um quality of earnings on on the on the FDD and the franchisor is is something I'd I'd I'd recommend as well. >> And wait, so the franchise the franchise fee snuck up on you is what you're saying. >> Not the franchise fee necessarily. So, the big fees the big picture got it. This is how it works is what you do for me is what I do for you. But, you know, anyone that works in a with a in a in a franchise system will say that there's a there's a nuance when this comes up and you're on the hook for this. It's It's small stuff, but um I I had not done enough uh uh planning and diligence to kind of understand all the nooks and crannies of the FDD. And it's nothing that was uh you know, crazy. It's just uh you know, I wasn't as versed as I should have been, and it just added to the Oh my gosh, here's another thing that I didn't expect uh you know, when you get a couple months into it. These FDDs are long, man. They're like >> Okay. >> And so so the advice for >> I was Yeah, these are these are These are uh very long and detailed documents. Um so, it does deserve the like I said, the two I think the two wave of the review with the attorney. Number one, is this compliant, right? Which is what I got, but then the next is the uh let's actually go through each of these terms and and make sure that uh we take the legal speak and apply it to as I'm operating this business, what it's going to mean for me and when. >> Yeah. And of course, the other kind of famous section of the FDD is what is it? Actually, section 19 or something where they they talk about the revenue, the average revenue generated by all the other territories or locations or whatever it is. Um I assume that you looked closely at. >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, which everything everything seemed in line, right? Enough where again, we're going, okay, I Yeah, I've sat with these people face-to-face for hours, and we've had these these conversations, we've built the trust, and the trust is sustained. So, um yeah, it was uh it was we you know, we wanted to to get this thing going and want to get in here and start growing it. So, like I said, luckily in my case and and the other thing with the local, which I'd stress this even more if you're looking at a franchise system that is national, PE backed, etc., um there you're not going to have number one, the access like I have where if if I have an an issue or a question, I'll bring it to the CEO. We'll work it through it. You know, we he wants me to grow, and I want the system to grow. Um and what I've learned is that's that's very unique. Uh so, that you know, there was nothing crippling luckily, to begin with, but if there was something crippling, then I've we had the relationship to fall back on. >> When you were looking at the the average revenue per territory or whatever, was that in line with with where Atlanta already was? Um, and I guess this idea of being able to grow your business so much, I mean, when you look at when you look at the average revenue per location of the franchisee, while you expect yourself to be an outperformer and and do better than the average, it does anchor your expectations to what's possible here. So, if everybody's doing half a million dollars a year, or the average is half a million bucks a year, the idea that you're going to get it to 5 million starts to feel, you know, unrealistic that in in a single territory you can get it there, 10 times what the average is. Um, so maybe so did you have any of that sort of calculus going on? >> Yeah, and you know, that we I say I say 10x in 5 years, that is a little bit of Steve Jobs reality distortion field. Uh, so that's not >> >> I I was this is not like conservative expectation. This is saying like, I we are going to change this whole we're going to shake it up. Like, we are going to build something new together, and that's that's part of the assumption. It's and it's it's a lot of ambition baked in there. Um, but so yeah, so no, Atlanta is was on the it was on the higher side of of average, but it's also an excellent market that only so my my territory is very large. My territory is essentially all of greater Atlanta, mostly doing business, if you know Atlanta, between 75 and 85 north, so the affluent suburbs north. There's other pockets that haven't even been tapped yet, that I have access to. So, I have a lot of geographical expansion even within my territory. We've talked a lot about that with the franchisor developing that out, right? There's potentially maybe I could, you know, as I build out a team, right? Having a rep go develop just another part of that territory. These sort of things are on the table. So, um and and the prior owner, he had done a lot of that, but he went from zero to one. Well, he he went to zero to one with the after the business was in Atlanta with the new the new franchise territory. Um and he had come a long way. He had had a lot of recurring rev Most of the revenue was recurring, which is great. So, follow that model. You can expand upon that model. Um And uh and then the geographical expansion and and then the innovation was the third thing that I threw in there. So, you know, I think all these things together certainly would yield uh the ability to to grow past uh what historical average would be. I saw I saw this as a as a unique opportunity. >> Okay, Brian. Wrap us up by telling us uh what you've done in the last year and a half. Revenue uh is up. >> Yeah. Yeah, so um the the turnover rate and attrition um was I was really pleased um going from 1 year to the next. You see, I think we were around uh 10% and a lot of that was, you know, people that probably weren't going to stick around whether he was he was there or or it wasn't because of the transition. Um I got to work around renewal time and uh had, you know, got more in depth into value. Let's Let's Let me help you uncover. Let's have a transparent analysis of this data. Um We've done a lot more to to track actual performance based on, you know, congruency with the rest of the marketing that they're doing to to prove what value we're driving for the business. That helped me with renewals and I think by the end of March, I had booked, so contracted, uh the totality of my 2025 revenue. So, everything I've sold since March is is uh increase in sales. Um and that's mostly on renewal of the annual engagements um plus new business in at annual recurring engagements. Um and so throughout the year we're continuing to uh to build it out. The other thing that I'll uh that I'll touch on is the potential for this business in local political advertising. As you probably know, you live outside DC, direct mail is a huge part of that. So there's an opportunity to expand there. So I've been lucky enough through some of my some of the folks I know to find some local consultants and they you know, they they talk to me and they go, "Man, no one else is talking about direct mail like this." And so that could be its own you know, thing that takes off. So right now that's going to be you know, that might be up to 20 20% of the business this year. We'll see. You know, elections aren't till November. So it's still early, but I was lucky enough to support some primary races that that won. But so very still focused on the home services strategy, driving more value for our current clients and then figuring out how to scale what works best to the broader market. And then and then on the political side it's really interesting as well. So lots of exciting stuff. >> And and where do you where do you forecast 2026 revenues landing? >> I am I I'm very conservative by nature and I am confident that we can get to a million dollars. So I've got some people that I'm working with they're going, "Now man, we're going to beat this." But I've got a fractional chief revenue officer who's an awesome guy that's doing an engagement with me and he's like, "No, we can do more than a million." But that was my stretch goal at the beginning of the year and here in June it's starting to materialize. I I can see that it it could be real. So I'll be very pleased if and when it happens. >> And if you make it to this million dollars revenue, Brian, and then you just kind of have a sense for the market overall, do you feel like now that you're in the business that there is a lot more market share to grab? I mean, could this become two and three million dollars with time and and you know, building the business and applying yourself. >> Yeah, it's going to take staffing. Like I said, I'm having good luck with with offshore resources and a mix of fractional people. At some point, I need to figure out how to build that sustainably, continue focus on processes, but the more that I am able to create those systems to let the business perform at a high level without me being hands-on with everything, the more that my brain is opening up to pay attention to the market, follow what companies are winning, listen to my clients, understand their feedback, and then implement it to iterate on those systems. If I get that flywheel going, then then yeah, I think I think the market's huge. >> Any last thoughts, Brian, before I let you go? >> There's been a lot of really scary things in this whole journey, but like I said, I the the wisdom and the experience that I've gained has been out invaluable. I would not trade it for anything. And I'm really excited about about the future and and seeing where this goes. I would say if you're especially if for somebody that's thinking about leaving corporate, one of the one of the hardships that I anticipated, which I experienced at the beginning, was the management structure, the leadership, your mentors are built in in a large organization, and that's not there when you're on your own, especially when you're a solopreneur. The more that I have said, "I'm not going to accomplish this on my own. Come in community. Let me talk to people. Let me Let me bring in somebody to do some consulting that I trust. Let me lean on you to do this. Like let's build this together." There's a feedback in the the entrepreneur community all wants to help each other. And that just that yields business growth and it it yields accelerated development of the business. So So just be be comfortable and and don't do it on your own. Work with your connections and and and they'll help you. >> Great advice. Brian Jüngels, thanks for coming on Acquiring Minds. >> Thanks, Will. >> Hope you enjoyed that interview. Don't forget to subscribe to the Acquiring Minds newsletter. We send an email for every episode with an introduction to the interview, a link to the video version on YouTube, and soon key takeaways, numbers, and more essentials from the interview for those of you who don't have time to listen or watch it. Subscribe at acquiringminds.co. You'll also find all our webinars there on the website, both those we have coming up and recordings of past webinars. 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