We decided to take over the management of the state in the sense that we decided to create structures parallel to the Polish state . Over the last 16 months, 267,000 companies in Poland have closed or liquidated. You get on a plane and some handsome man stands up and says: "I'll be the pilot today, because I'm good at talking, so I'm likeable. We've earned our money with our own blood, and politicians live solely on our money and from our money. And today we'll be seeking answers to these questions with my guest, Professor Mariusz Miąsko, a professor at the Nicolaus Copernicus University in Warsaw. Good morning, Professor. Good morning, Mr. Editor. Hello everyone. I think we'll have no shortage of topics, because the Polish debt counter is rising. The government reassures us in materials, in the news, in press conferences, that don't worry, don't worry , nothing's happening with this debt, because GDP is growing. How will Poland's debt, which is record-breaking and we're constantly getting more and more indebted, actually affect the wallet of the average Pole, how taxes will rise in the coming months and years, what inflation could potentially be, how we'll lose money on our own assets? How can this be explained simply? And Contrary to appearances, this is a very simple matter, because here we have a very simple analogy to every family budget. Essentially, we need to consider what this budget is and where the money in the budget comes from. And essentially, money in the budget comes almost exclusively from entrepreneurs and the employees of the employees employed by entrepreneurs' companies. Because we, the entrepreneurs, and our wonderful employees, wouldn't have generated these funds without the employees, even though we would be the best managers. So it's very important to connect and appreciate those we work with, our employees. We generate about 90% of the entire Polish state budget, the broadly understood budget. And now this is the foundation, because that's not the structure, that's not how it is in all countries right now. If we look at Norway's revenues, for example, or at the revenues of countries with raw material resources, they often have various, diversified sources of revenue , not only from the work of entrepreneurs, from goods and services developed by entrepreneurs, but it just so happens that Poland doesn't have such resources. which it could export externally through entrepreneurship. It's very important here that we understand that we're not just referring to private entrepreneurs, but also state-owned ones. After all, Orlen is an enterprise. It's just an enterprise. It just has a different owner, but it's still an enterprise. So we, the entrepreneurs, generate, let's say, at least 90 percent of the entire budget value. And now, if we know this information, and we know that we have nothing to supplement the surplus above this 90 percent of revenues, and the Polish state and Polish politicians are creating social projects like the 500+ program, the 800+ program, indebting hospitals, creating projects related to medicine, which generate enormous, enormous costs. These enormous costs, or any other projects, for example, create a powerful, one might say, bureaucratic layer that financially burdens the Polish state . We must understand that if we are not covered by income from entrepreneurship at the level of the Polish state budget, the government has only one option: to indebt the Polish state. Because if the government generated higher expenses, at a higher level. than revenues from our taxes and other levies that we entrepreneurs generate, so the government has no alternative source to pour this money into the budget, right? It can't sell more gas, oil, gold, diamonds, etc., etc., because we simply don't have them. It can't release them onto the international market, it has nothing to replenish them with, it can only go for loans. And that's exactly what's happening. I mean, as of today, roughly 600 billion złoty, tens of thousands of billion złoty, is the planned budget revenue, and the government, on top of those 600 billion złoty, has planned another 270, 280 billion złoty, right, all to supplement the entire budget, meaning all the planned expenditures. What does the government plan to cover this with? It plans to cover it exclusively with loans, which it takes out in the form of 10-year bonds, most often 10-year, sometimes five-year, on the domestic market, on the external market. And that's a real misfortune, because we're at a point where we currently have roughly—estimates vary— between 80 to 100 billion złoty in interest alone. We can't pay this interest, because if our budget is, say, 600 billion złoty, budget revenues— I emphasize revenues—but we have to pay 100 billion złoty in interest, then we can no longer cover the interest from current budget revenues . And what have we been doing with this interest for many years? We're rolling it over, but in other words, we're actually taking out another loan to pay the interest. But the problem is that the mass of this obligation—because every year we have more and more liabilities, this debt—the mass of this obligation is so large that Poland is becoming less credible on the international market. What does this mean, what does this mean in economic terms? It means that we have to issue our subsequent bonds at higher prices. That is, we can redeem them, but not at 3% like Germany or 3.2% like Germany, but at 4, 5, 6%. And in two years, we'll be able to redeem them for 7, or maybe 8%. So the more indebted we are, the more expensive the redemption, the more expensive the value, the cost of redeeming these bonds, because the less credible we are. And this is an endless loop, this is an endless spiral, this is the path to absolute disaster for the Polish state and its collapse. And why is this so? Because politicians fundamentally do not understand the basic, underlying economic mechanisms. They fundamentally do not understand. I recently gave such a speech on, among other things, economics, debt management at the Hartland Institute in Warsaw. Politicians were there. When I showed some of the numbers, imagine how hard it is to believe, they pulled out their phones and started taking pictures. Well, if you saw the level of politicians they were at, I found it hard to believe that such politicians would take pictures of such obvious data. This means they don't understand the mechanisms, and it's very important that we don't limit ourselves to just complaining and saying that things are bad and we don't like this state of affairs. We have to change it ourselves. For this very reason, among other things, we organized an association We, the entrepreneurs, in which we established a government of entrepreneurs and a council of experts consisting mainly of outstanding Polish entrepreneurs and Polish scientists in economics, law, and management, which must have this synergy, and we decided to take over the management of the state in the sense that we decided to create structures parallel to the Polish state, based on meritocracy, on knowledge, on competences, and we decided to teach our goal is to teach politicians and to teach the next future governments, to teach economics. Because if, ladies and gentlemen, we know that everything, look, ladies and gentlemen, healthcare, defense, education, roads, the entire infrastructure, everything is based on the budget. Because, to put it bluntly, there is no aspect of the functioning of the Polish state that is not based on the budget. If the budget is high, then these areas will function relatively well if they are relatively well managed. If the budget is low, then although I don't know what kind of manager we would put there , who knows what kind of competences, if he doesn't have the resources, he won't manage well either . Well, if we know that the foundation of every state, and especially the Polish state, is the budget, and the foundation With 90% of this budget coming from entrepreneurs and their employees , what should we be talking about? What should politicians be primarily talking about in the media ? Primarily, the economy and the labor market—how to avoid destroying jobs so that employees have a decent place to work. How to create new jobs while creating favorable conditions for entrepreneurship. So why do politicians talk about everything else ? They argue every day. How much do proportionate politicians talk about the economy? I don't even know if it's 3%. Give me 30 seconds. The world teaches us how to spend money, but no one teaches us how to manage it. Inflation is taking its toll, and finances seem like a black magic. We decided to change that. That's why we're embarking on a financial transformation for the fourth time . Over the past few years, we've helped thousands of Poles pay off debts, build safety nets, and invest better. Registration for the new edition is now open. The main prize is PLN 30,000, but unfortunately, places are limited. So click the link in the description, sign up today, and regain control of your finances. The question is, Professor, do they actually have this knowledge? Because the example you mentioned is one of many. Actually, Rafał Brzoska recently did exactly the same thing. I don't know if he said it in an interview, but I saw this quote or commented somewhere on his social media that during meetings, he saw that most of these politicians simply had never owned a business and that they simply had n't achieved anything in life, at least not in the working groups he worked with. I recently heard from a military official that in the geopolitical times we live in, politicians at a meeting... the first question they threw at this man... I won't mention his specific name, because that's not the point. When will there be pea soup? In these times where we are, where we should be discussing security substantively and specifically and not wasting time, the first question a senior politician asked was when will there be pea soup. Therefore, let's move on to the second question, and I'll start with whether politicians want to learn. Because you mentioned that, I would tell the parallel government, yes... Let's call it a place where politicians could learn economics, but at the same time, politicians are introducing the National Economy and Social Fund (KSEF) to us entrepreneurs, while we're producing a lot of GDP, or perhaps most of this budget. They're introducing the National Economy and Social Fund (KSEF). And today we're talking about freedom, about these tools, about these solutions, where we, as entrepreneurs, choose freedom, we choose this freedom, which is becoming increasingly scarce. How do you assess this? Because this KSEF works. It was invented by politicians who, for the most part, have never worked, because these are facts. They've never worked in the free market, and in a minority, these politicians had their own businesses. In a minority, the majority have never owned businesses or lived on… we know, we won't discuss it. How do you assess the KSE? Is this taking away another part of freedom from us entrepreneurs in Poland? Let's talk, we need to be open about what the editor suspended. Politicians live off our money. We, entrepreneurs, had to earn it, and our employees, in ours. In the best sense of the word, employees are like family to us. This is very important, because we spend more time with our employees than with our families, most often. So we've worked our asses off, and the politicians, the politicians, live solely and exclusively on our money, and the overwhelming majority of them live off our money. I've known politicians for 26 years , I've been with most Polish governments for 26 years. I left the village of Koryczana as a very poor man without a single złoty, literally with the promise of a job in Warsaw. And over those 26 years, I've had the opportunity to meet most Polish politicians, most Polish governments. After all, I've held various advisory positions, both external and internal, but I've always stayed away from all politicians, because in my opinion, it's evil on various levels. Politics itself and the mentality of politicians. So I stay away from all politics and believe in political ecumenism and project-based action. And this KSE is just a great example of this, because, please, please, ladies and gentlemen, please note that the KSEF is another form of encumbrance. It is, it... Surveillance of the entire Polish economy, because the formal operator of the KSEFU is, of course, a state institution, the Ministry of Finance, but in reality, the KSEFU system is supplied by two private operators, who, to make matters worse, have partially changed ownership to two foreign owners, right? As a software developer, I can say that, of course, the developer always has access to all information. There's no way they would n't, because they have to maintain the software. Naturally, the foreign companies that provide operational software have insight into the entire Polish economy, into all Polish enterprises. Anyone who claims otherwise must be extremely naive or completely unaware of the software's structure and specifics. I'm guessing that's the first layer. The second layer is that for many entrepreneurs, it's a burden—an additional burden, financially speaking . I also know entrepreneurs who are satisfied with the KSF, but the overwhelming majority. For example, in our companies, we consider it a burden. It's not a relief, but a burden. Why is this so important? Because someone might say, "There's some extra burden there, you'll only have to click three or four buttons, you'll spend an extra five minutes. But there's something called a Lafer curve. This Lafer curve is like this, it's like , excuse the term, because I don't want to say it's some kind of god of economics, because there's only one God, but it is, but it is an objective parameter of economics. That's what I mean. An objective parameter of economics. It's a point at which, after crossing a certain point, either up or down on this curve, the revenues of the Polish state, or any other state, because it's completely independent, you could say geographically and politically, the revenues of a given country will always decrease. So if we increase it excessively, that is, what the greed of politicians overflowed when they introduced their set. And now the point is, please pay attention to what's happening over the last 16 months. Data for the last 16 months, regarding the market entrepreneurship, we're closing or liquidating 267,000 companies in Poland, some suspended, others liquidated over the last 16 months. 267,000 companies in Poland. Now, take a map like this on your wall. Take these pins. 267,000 pins. And now imagine that under each pin there are 10 employees. Statistically look at how, over the last 16 months, there's been a drastic reduction in the ability to fund the Polish budget, because that's where we started, where the money comes from. And now like KSEW, maybe from some official's perspective, it's just a few extra clicks, a few extra minutes, or a dozen or so minutes that we have to spend, just some extra, I don't know, 300 PLN per company, which we have to pay extra per month to the companies that bill us. But this parameter shows these last 16 months: 267,000 The number of liquidated or suspended companies shows that we are in an extremely suboptimal place for the Lafer curve. This cannot be viewed as a single element, but as a single factor. Why are these 16 months so exceptional, and how does this 267,000 compare to, I don't know, the last few years? What is the proportion? Oh, this is a record. This is a record of suspensions in, I don't know, maybe not even since 2000, a record of suspended and liquidated Polish companies. We also have a 20-year record for companies undergoing restructuring. We also have a 24-year record of consecutive months in which unemployment increased. Remember, we had 10 or 11 consecutive months in which unemployment only increased, and interestingly, these spring months didn't slow it down, because spring months usually slow it down. This was the first such case in 24 years. We had 134,000 from, as it were, a loss of jobs. This is this, ladies and gentlemen, this is 2/3 of Katowice. This is 2/3 Katowice in just one year. In the transport industry, it's like this: 1,100 companies went bankrupt last year and 1,000, over 1,100 in the first quarter of this year, meaning one year and one quarter of this year generated 2,200 fewer transport companies. I'm talking about net values, because both the 267,000 in Poland overall and in transport, I'm talking about net values, meaning if we compensate for the companies that were established, suspended, or liquidated, we have these values. Transport, ladies and gentlemen, generated 7% of our GDP, and there were years when it was a record year, 13, and usually around nine. This means that it was enough to have just 11 more transports and we would have met our entire budget needs. But ladies and gentlemen, how could we have effectively brought about this liquidation by our own hands? Because it wasn't the mobility package that liquidated Polish transport, but two successive government amendments that liquidated, and it should be said, both governments. Because at the end, the first disastrous amendment to the Drivers' Working Time Act was made by the previous government, and later by the current government, which drastically increased labor costs in transport companies. And what the current government and the previous government did at the end was to introduce super-socialism. Super-socialism. Even in the harsh socialism before 1989, there was never a history of allowances and lump sums as a compensation benefit, subject to contributions and taxes, because they are only compensatory; they cover costs, increased costs. However, governments decided to introduce a last-ditch, over-socialism, taxing them, thinking they would have higher revenues, right? Because the Lafer curve is ruthless. And that's where all the money resulting from the Lafer curve will go when it actually overflows, and this government greed doesn't show up in the results, doesn't show up in Excel, and this budget hole isn't closing. But citizens are saying enough is enough, that there are so many contributions, even in those elements about which Which you just mentioned here. Will the grey zone grow? But what does it mean that the old grey zone? Of course, the grey zone will grow. That's obvious to me . But what does it mean that there is a grey zone? It means there's no money in the official budget. And if there's no money in official circulation, it means that sidewalks won't be repaired, it means that hospitals will be closed, some schools will be closed, all our services will be at a lower level, roads won't be repaired, and new ones won't be built . So this is, this is, this is the path to disaster, and that's why we don't believe, I don't believe, after 26 years of dealing with politicians. all the parties that have been in power so far, I think there have been 17 governments, if I remember correctly, or 14 governments, but there have been some of them since 2000, since I started, so I can only speak for this period . I don't believe that politicians will be able to handle the management of the state. they have no elementary competences, they have gigantic egos, no competences. I can't understand how it is that to be a pilot, to fly a plane, you have to have competences to carry only 200, 400 people. And to govern the state, it is enough to be a historian, because most Polish politicians are historians. I have nothing against historians, because I like history very much. Besides, as a lawyer, it's inevitable. Well, obviously I appreciate history. I respect all historians and politicians very much, I even respect them as people, but this and that are completely different things. To like someone as a person, to respect them as a manager, as a person in charge. They are not managers, because why would they be? Who taught them how to manage anything? After all, you yourself said that most politicians have never even run a regular kiosk. They have no idea how to run a business, so why should they run a country? How is it that you can imagine the situation? Anyone imagine the situation? You get on a plane and some handsome man stands up and says, "I'll be the pilot today, because I'm a good talker, so I'm nice, right? I look good and I can convince you, whoever votes for me to pilot the plane, to raise both hands and say, "Dear man, sit here, you're cool, we'll even buy you a drink, just so you do n't accidentally get de-escalated, because you'll just ruin us all." And where did this gigantic budget hole come from ? How is it that we have, sir, 100 billion in interest, or really, 1/6 of the entire budget, we have to pay off interest alone, because they can't manage us. This is absolutely crazy. You often read in economics materials and books that a modern state is always in debt. No, debt is always a dysfunction. The point is this: it's always a dysfunction of the state and state management. Let's finally put an end to this. It's a myth that a modern state must always be in debt. It's just that it's said and rightly assumed that there are forms of debt that can ultimately be beneficial for the Polish state if they're investment-oriented. If, for example, we started taking out debt to build 5-10 nuclear power plants and we had electricity at the price France pays, meaning 1/5 of Poland's electricity. For 1/5 of Poland's electricity. That's what France pays, French companies pay for electricity. That would make long-term sense, an investment-oriented one. Please. However, consumer loans make no sense at all. They're proof of nothing but terrible management. Why do politicians from successive governments take out debt? Because they need to somehow survive only those four years, or a maximum of eight, because their terms are so short that they really only need to survive that long, take out debt, show that things were good in their time, and that things will be even worse in others . Either it was worse, or it will be worse, because because with each successive government It will only become more difficult to manage Poland. We'll soon move on to solutions, to this sovereign entity that we've been supporting for years, this direction on the channel, and we're also offering solutions in the form of not only a financial transformation, but also many healthcare solutions. Because we know how the National Health Fund works, and it's not about grading all these elements today. We did that at the beginning. Before we move on to solutions, to solutions that we as entrepreneurs can implement, I'd like to focus on simply taking responsibility, on our own financial path , meaning opening a business. And today we know that many Poles, despite all these problems for entrepreneurs, continue to run their businesses. And I think that the fact that Poland looks the way it does, I speak as myself and take full responsibility for it. It looks this way despite politicians, not because of politicians, because some say that because we have one, two, or 10 governments like this, it's thanks to that, and thanks to the EU, we have this Poland. I say, we have this despite politicians from Brussels, despite politicians from Warsaw, thanks to your diligence, my diligence, and the professor's diligence. And many thousands of millions of Poles. Everyone gets up every day at 4:00, 5:00, 6:00, goes to work and works out taxes with their hands or their heads. And despite all these incompetent governments over the years, we have a Poland that Poles return to after 20 years in Great Britain. Yesterday I spoke with an entrepreneur who was doing beautiful things in England. He said it was impossible to continue living there and he didn't want to raise his children in such a place. He's going to Poland. We'll return to this topic later, but I wanted to ask, Professor, where we're going then, because before we sat down here in the studio today, we were talking, uh, in front of the office on the steps, about those hard times, the 1980s and 1990s, where there was real poverty, where people stole car radios, where they stole batteries, where they even stole hubcaps, where unemployment was at a level of up to 30%. I certainly don't remember the exact statistics, but it was unemployment, as you say. The professor says today that we are heading towards such a disastrous economic situation, a situation where we have 100 billion in interest alone, 1/6 of the annual budget, where does it go? If many Western neighbors, many people come to Poland and say, "Here's a model." You're making excellent economic arguments, in terms of values ​​and security. We are a truly great country, with great citizens, but with bad managers. How will this end? This will end well, because we will take over the power in the Polish state. I mean, we, the business community and we, the scientific community. Because there is no alternative to our government at all. Because the alternative is not to pay homage to politics and politicians, who I started, as you did, from the moment I left the village of Koryczany without a single zloty. Literally without a single zloty, I only had promised food in Warsaw, I was promised accommodation in Warsaw, and I was promised an advance payment in Warsaw. I didn't even know if this was possible. From not having a single zloty, I built Several companies, and in their industries, in their areas, they are leaders. Therefore, as an entrepreneur, I've been an entrepreneur for 26 years . I know how to spend every złoty. I spend it four times, wondering if I'm really going to spend it this way, whether it will be rational or not . And every day, in my relations with politicians for 26 years, I encounter the exact opposite, incompetent thinking. I'm tired of it. I don't know about you, but I'm tired of it. I'm saying enough. Enough of this management by these people without any competence, but with gigantic aspirations and ambitions. How many benches do we see in our cities for 200,000 złoty, monuments for millions, toilets for 7 million złoty, each for s of our millions, and benches paid for by our money, because no politician has achieved this. This has been achieved by you, the state, and the employees who work wonderfully with us , because we have achieved this, and no public servant has achieved this . I I have nothing against public servants as such. I think there are too many of them, but I respect them as people, so we can understand each other clearly. We won't divide anyone here; we will unite. We will unite society, but with this mindset, we bought the F-35s that flew recently. I was asked to appear on a radio station. What do I think about this? I said in the first sentence that I'd like to thank all the entrepreneurs for buying us the F-35s and the employees of these entrepreneurs, because we bought the F-35s. We bought everything ourselves. It's very important for us to believe that this is ours, that we worked it out. We, the entrepreneurs, and we, the employees of entrepreneurs. Once we sort this out, I know we'll fix everything else, because we know how to manage, unlike politicians. We have both the hard skills of proper education and the hard skills of effective management. That's why we organized a government of entrepreneurs with the We, the Entrepreneurs association. I encourage everyone to visit www.my myprzedsiębiobywatel.org as an organization is very important, and there's a form where you can sign up. If the editor is kind enough, we'll also include a contact phone number and a link in the description under this episode. Yes. And I encourage you, ladies and gentlemen, the response has been enormous. I'll just say that we currently have 3,500 companies that have signed up since the first podcast I did on this topic not so long ago. This is a huge interest, because the government, because the government of entrepreneurs is something ecumenical. It's also very important to say that this is an ecumenical organization. It doesn't matter what your political views are. I'm not interested in that in the slightest. Everyone has the right to have whatever views they want. But we're not talking about politics here. We're talking about hard economics, about mathematics. About the fact that the Polish state budget, if there 's a need for 900 billion, should include 900 billion in revenue from our work. And there are no loans, because that only makes us slaves. And such a state must collapse sooner or later . There's another issue. There's a great study by Torton, and it concerns the Polish economy. It says that if Polish society increased its purchases of Polish products by just 1%, you understand, then the annual revenues to the Polish state budget would increase by 5 billion złoty. In fact, the study even states 6, 6, or 2 billion złoty, but let's just say only 5 billion złoty. What does that mean? It means that we, the government of entrepreneurs, are gambling on Polish entrepreneurship. The Polish government can't do that because European Union regulations prohibit gambling on a given country's entrepreneurship. Some absurdity. Economic patriotism in practice, my dears, we've been harping on this for I don't know how many years. I encourage you, I'll just throw in a question here. After this episode, take a day or at least an hour to spend at Polish businesses. I always say this example: you go to a gas station to fill up your car, go to a Polish gas station. If you're going to send a Polish parcel, a Polish one. Any parcel, any package, go send it to a Polish company or drop it off at a parcel locker, which is available. Of course, there are companies there that have contributed foreign money to InPost's development, but it's still a company that employs tens of thousands of Polish people, and there's a media outcry that it sold out to Americans. And I say, well, if it weren't for such large amounts of foreign capital , this company wouldn't have grown to this scale. So let's move towards spending money at Polish companies. Go buy coffee at a Polish restaurant. Go to a Polish restaurant. Check it out. Of course, but of course, that's the foundation. The study brilliantly showed that one złoty spent at a Polish producer, an entrepreneur producing in Poland and selling in Poland, leaves 97 groszy in Poland with the Polish entrepreneur, while at a foreign entrepreneur producing in Poland, it leaves only 47 groszy in the Polish budget, which is almost half as much, right? Even less in the other categories, but it shows how fundamentally important it is to buy from Polish entrepreneurs producing in Poland, or foreign entrepreneurs producing in Poland. In Poland, because we'll have at least 47 groszy left from every złoty, ladies and gentlemen. Now imagine that we're talking about 1%, but what if it were 10%? Well, we'd already have 50 billion, right? And the entire budget is 600. Well, look, ladies and gentlemen, we'd have to take out a loan by 50 billion, which means we'd have to pay less interest. So, theoretically, it's so simple. It's a matter of national awareness, of sending information that it's our hundred złoty that we spend every day. Check your budgets, your bank bills, how much money you spend every day. It's not a hundred, it's much more. Of course, filling up your cars is three hundred złoty just filling up one car. After all, most of you have two cars, you fill them up sometimes once a week, so it's just fuel. And where are the parcels? Where is the food? Where, where, where are many of these elements that we, but we have banks, Polish banks, and we have banks. Foreign, ladies and gentlemen, and in this regard, we should also consider where to borrow money, yes, where we have money, where we have liabilities, interest, where we stay, all of this is truly ours. Speaking of freedom, Professor, because, well, because we're talking about what was taken from us, or what about these solutions, that, as entrepreneurship, which is essentially a choice, is freedom, well, Ksew has complicated it a bit for us, but we, as Poles, are not giving up, and the association you mentioned, for example, is such a balance. I'm curious to see how this will develop, so I'm rooting for it , I'll sign up myself, and I encourage you, my dears, we have a lot of entrepreneurs and non-entrepreneurs. I encourage everyone to support it. Let's go to cash, because in my opinion, it's another bastion of freedom, a bastion of choice and freedom, that I have cash, I decide where I take the money, who I pay it to, what I buy. I'm independent of banks, I can withdraw it myself, not that I just go on an app and Attention, I can't because of a technical break, some error, something crashed in the app and I can't do it. But today we also see that this isn't just idle chatter. As a business owner, we want to withdraw money from our account , or we want to pay. I've been experiencing this myself as an entrepreneur since 2009. I want to withdraw money from my sole proprietorship (JDG) or I want to deposit money, and the lady asks me more and more detailed questions. I had this conversation at one of the banks where I asked the lady if she knew what she was doing. I asked very politely if she really wanted to ask me these questions, if she really knew where to draw the line that appears here at the bank. I've been a customer there for many years. And she said, "But we have to." And I said, "You don't have to." I said, "You don't have to, because we, the business owners, we, the employees, work for you. I do it from the bottom up." I talk to raise awareness. I'm not shouting at this lady because I know that her manager or bank director said that she has to read these questions from the computer." And I say: "You don't have to, if I, as an entrepreneur, stand up for myself, you stand up for yourself , then the director, the manager stands up for themselves, then I say: they won't fire everyone. They won't fire everyone. And if everyone agrees that the lady will ask me where I got the money from or why I'm withdrawing my money, then this is the time for entrepreneurs to stop withdrawing money and decide that they will transfer it anyway because it's inconvenient. Do you see this really moving towards eliminating cash altogether? Is this impossible? This is moving towards the idea that the system will know exactly what the cash flows are, who pays whom how much, and will be able to draw specific conclusions from this. Well, KSEF is unquestionably so, but KSEF is at the level of companies, while the entire system is at the level of every citizen in general. And now exactly the questions you mentioned are the aftermath of AML regulations. This is such an act based on the EU directive on counteracting money laundering and counterterrorism. It's called so menacingly. It just so happens that 99% of all entrepreneurs and citizens are neither terrorists nor do they take dirty money. The problem, the thing is that this is what this um is called at the semantic level um such procedures are used. These laws are called that way to justify in people's minds that surveillance is necessary, because what would happen if every millionth citizen was accidentally laundering money or was a terrorist? It is like this, it is this is a little bit like this, please pay attention to how cleverly it is served, how cleverly it is trained, how cleverly we are interested. It's the same with Lex the quack. Look at what this law is called. Isn't that her name? His name is not Alex Sherlatan, but he deliberately uses this name in the media to make people think: "Oh, this law is good, this one that limits and closes the freedom of doctors who would like to treat differently than the National Health Fund indicates." That's good because they're charlatans. Perhaps you understand what is happening here on the semantic level, the subliminal level of action that we are talking about. And now banks didn't want to apply these AML regulations, because I know them extremely well, because I work with these AML regulations. Due to this, a huge number of Polish entrepreneurs have problems. Pol entrepreneurs who traded with Asian hands, with African hands, who withdrew from the market from the African market because there are huge amounts of money blocked in hundreds of millions of zlotys for entrepreneurs . Even here, not far from where we are recording, there is an entrepreneur who has had 15 million zlotys blocked on the basis of an absolutely false case by both the bank and the AML body at the Ministry of Finance. because the regulations were created in such a way that no Polish entrepreneur, no matter what his competences, is able to demonstrate all the variables required by this Ill Act confirming that he knows where the money in Africa came from from his contractor and that it was certainly clean, and the ones he received from, the previous one, were also clean. Well, we don't have any insight into any regulations regarding flows in Africa with African, Asian, Southeast Asian or any other contractors, right? We don't have any, because we don't have intelligence or counterintelligence services, we don't have any relations with their tax authorities, etc., etc. We have no way of getting this information. And what happened? because banks did not want to apply these regulations, they did not want to. Well, respecting the interests of its customers, one of the banks was fined PLN 20 million last year, in June I think . This is how all the others panicked so as not to get another PLN 20 million fine and started to simply apply these regulations by asking a question. I couldn't believe it either, believe me. Just like you, I went to the bank, I went to the bank manager and asked him why you are asking these questions, right? You ask what I spend my money on. There are above a certain amount. These questions are asked. Yes. She says, "Sir, we have to because we're terrified, we're afraid we'll get fined as a bank, just like everyone else. Do you know what's going on here ? Do you realize what it's like for us when people throw things at us every day? How many arguments and serious arguments are there ? How people treat these girls who sit here and ask these questions, and we're trapped because we don't know what to do. And the system locks everything up, and the system locks everyone up . We're just slaves. And that's why we can't afford to take our cash. There's no way. We can't afford to have it happen like in China, in one province, they tested this point system in China , because it's not true, that this point system was introduced throughout China, but in one province, they tested this point system, this point system, where you don't get money, you get points to spend in a specific place, at a specific time, with specific businesses. It wasn't tested out of curiosity, right? Just to test it out, they were just trying to implement some specific action. They were checking how people react, how public opinion regulates, and what benefits it brings to the system, and what benefits it brings to the system, and what benefits it brings to the system. Right? The system was ultimately suspended for now, and it's not being tested any further in this province, but they're already trying things out. We can't afford to take a single złoty, and we can't afford to take cash. Why is it said that we have to switch to the euro? Because, ladies and gentlemen, what's the point of these successive governments? For example, the Minister of Finance, why are they so insistent on preparing us for the euro? Because that's the problem again, the source of the debt, because if we're getting into debt, and 40% of our debt, they say that 30% of our debt is internal debt, but if we add banks that are registered in Poland under Polish licenses, but are actually Spanish, British, etc., banks, then in fact 40% of the total debt, which, ladies and gentlemen, depending on how we measure it, is four times or Three times the total amount of Poland's total annual budget revenue . That's how much we're in debt, three or four times, depending on the method we use. There's one method, the European Union's, and another, the Polish one. The European Union claims we're in debt four times the amount of our annual revenue. It's as if we had to spend nothing for the next four years, not a single złoty on anything. On electricity, on water, on nothing, on repairs, on healthcare, on education— we wouldn't have to spend anything on anything to repay our debt. This is a gigantic obligation. It's astronomical, meaning we don't eat for four years and simply work everything, not eat for four years, right? Everything we work for free, if it somehow appeared, we would have to turn it off. And now, ladies and gentlemen, we have this gigantic debt. And now the thing is , if that's the case, then if we have debts to banks, to foreign institutions, because, as I said, 40% claim we have our own subjective debt. In foreign institutions, we cease to be sovereign. But the government says that since 40% of the total debt is in foreign currencies, meaning it 's in three currencies: euro, dollar, and a little bit in South Korean currency. To make matters more interesting, we have arms production in that currency, we're susceptible to exchange rate fluctuations. Because if there's instability in our market, in our region, right? For example, if there's a war or conflict in Central Europe, even a small-scale one, the value of the zloty will fall, meaning we'll have to repay this debt even more. So we won't be repaying 2.2 trillion zlotys at all, but it could immediately grow to 4 trillion zlotys in relation to the exchange rate. Mm. And that's why governments are pushing us to adopt the euro. Because if we adopt the euro, convert, we'll lose the Polish currency, but we'll join the eurozone, then they tell us it's a good thing because we won't be sensitive to exchange rate fluctuations. If a crisis were to occur. But this is a false narrative. It, because I, I only, Mr. Editor, must explain why it is fundamentally false, because it assumes that we will constantly be in debt. Do you understand? This is madness. If the Minister of Finance comes out and says: "We must take the euro to be safe." And Mr. Minister, maybe we should not liquidate 267,000 Polish companies in 16 months , but create optimal conditions for the Lafer curve in 16 months, so that we build half a million companies and your budget is fully covered. This 900 billion, something like that, to be covered by our taxes. We will gladly pay it as entrepreneurs and employees of entrepreneurs. But if we have any left, then Mr. Minister, Mr. Prime Minister, focus on building the Lafer curve, on creating this optimum that will result in There will be twice as many companies in Poland, right? We currently have what? 3 million, 200 companies. If there are 6 million, we'll have our own budget and they'll all be profitable, because then things will be good, costs will be reduced , and we'll generate all our own revenue. We won't need a single złoty, which means our złoty is safe. It's not, there's no need to convert it to the euro. But Professor, maybe our frustration, especially yours today, is due to you speaking for much longer, although I have similar ones, and I would address these answers to politicians in a similar way. Maybe we're addressing this incorrectly, because when I sometimes hear why economics universities don't teach practical human economics, why don't politicians work for entrepreneurs? Another thing is that they don't know how to be entrepreneurs because they've never owned businesses in the first place. We've already discussed this. After all, politicians don't care about citizens being free, wealthy, independent, united, undivided, and incapacitated. So, financially, I'd say they simply don't have to be dependent on this system. They're making us dependent on social security, and so on. Governments don't care about us having entrepreneurs, so I wonder if we're addressing this correctly, if they're not acting as planned. There's no point in believing at all. You know, Mr. Editor, the box with faith in politicians, current politicians—no, I don't mean this government, but the government in general—let's close that box. I don't believe in them . We'll change this country ourselves. I'm telling you, you're the way, because you said, how can what you said a moment ago happen, that we'll take over this government, or... But we're already taking over? I'll tell you, I've been doing this for 16 years. 16 years ago, I founded my first association. It's the " Best Way" association. As part of this association, I've implemented 400 interventions. 400 at the state level. But I came to the conclusion that this is a road to nowhere, because it took me 16 years and I came to the conclusion that 400 would n't be enough for me to live, and that's why I decided to establish another association, we entrepreneurs, I'm saying this again, and to establish a normal government of entrepreneurs there, which will generate 40,000 such interventions in three years . 40,000, not 400 in 16 years. Because we entrepreneurs associated with associations have, and generally we people in associations have, enormous statutory powers that we're not told about. It's like you said, politicians don't talk about many things. They don't tell us that we have a statutory guarantee that we can enter the Sejm's subcommittee meeting during the first reading, not the committee, but the subcommittee, and submit a draft amendment with a justification, and it has to be voted on, and it almost always gets a positive vote. That's why I'm so effective, I'm a lawyer. I know how it works from the legal perspective. Legislative. I know what the regulations say, that the legislative path dictates that during the work on regulations in ministries and during the first reading of bills in subcommittees, the public must be involved. It doesn't participate because it doesn't know, because if it did, if politicians were saying in the media: "Come to the Sejm and say, 'Whatever you don't like, bring your amendments,'" the nation would move, but then political parties would be unnecessary. That's why we are being excluded from this knowledge, because it so happens that I am not a lawyer, I lecture on the principles of lawmaking, I have participated for 26 years and I participate to a greater or lesser extent in the legislative process. I know it inside out . In general, this whole system, I know where we can enter and that's why I create associations that are not, we do not benefit from any kindness or any favor of politicians, ladies and gentlemen, for 26 years I have not been to dinner with any politician, nor have I been to vodka with any politician, nor have I been to beer or wine and I am not going, zero fraternization with politicians, zero. We do not need any favours from them, because the law says that we can still participate in the work of the tripartite commission in the ministry, in the work on regulations as a social factor and in the work of the Sejm. And that's what we do. And now this institution, which is being established by this government of entrepreneurs, how is it supposed to function systemically? What does it mean? That is, for now we are dividing the country into such a government of entrepreneurs has divided the areas of the economy into 22 such boxes. One day maybe there will be 222 or 400 of them, but it's not possible. You shouldn't try to organize too much at once, because then if you do everything, you end up doing nothing well. So for now we have divided it into 22 boxes. We dedicate one to three lawyers to each of these boxes. lawyers who 5 days a week, 8 hours a day do exactly the same thing they do in the ministries, only in the opposite direction, i.e. they prepare draft laws, regulations, and draft letters, analysis strategies for the construction of over, because why lawyers? Because the world is legal. It's legal. This is such a legal soup, because this table was created with this microphone, this glass, everything that is here was created in a legal environment. So there have to be lawyers, because they have to be able to, so to speak, encode it in legal language. But of course, in each of these cases, each of these boxes is supervised by a council of experts, i.e. people who know each other , are experts in this discipline. And now, for the first time, we are operating systemically, that is, 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, just like the state, how the system works, our system of freedom preparing systemic action in these areas. But that's nothing, because in addition you have to know that the state functions at the level of ministries and we have the right to participate as a social factor, i.e. as associations. We have the right to participate in legislative work on regulations in ministries and there, as a government of entrepreneurs, we want to provide our experts to each ministry. For which jobs? For all works, not for selected ones, not from time to time, for all. But this is nothing, because tripartite teams are still working at the ministries. We want to cover all three-way teams with our expert teams. Alt zns, because in the Sejm, as I said, all economic bills can be processed to a greater or lesser extent with our participation and there we want to put at least three of our experts in each subcommittee who will work systematically. This means that we will control 100% of what is happening in the Polish state. But that's not all, because we still have to remember that political parties function. And how do political parties vote? Political parties generally vote block. This means that an order is given to individual members of parliament as to how they should vote. This is a pure fiction of parliamentarism. What needs to be done to tear away the party chairman, tear away the power, his power, tear away the MPs, so that they start voting the way they autonomously, authentically want, and not the way the party chairman wants. The institution of the first parliamentary group must be abolished in the minds of MPs . Currently, if an MP is not very well-known, he or she has a chance of getting into parliament only if he or she is from the first party. If he 's not from the first season, he won't get in because he's not known. Well, the party chairmen know about it and they capitalize on it. That is, they do it in such a way that they say either you will vote and you will have a 97% party line voting rate, or you will not get a first. He might want to vote pro- entrepreneur, but he will never vote because he won't get elected, and he usually can't do anything else in life . In the relationship, he confessed that he had a big ego and that was a great dishonor. If by any chance he were to stop being a member of parliament after a certain term, he would vote as the party chairman tells him , but not as you want, not as I want, not as his listeners , who are, for example, entrepreneurs, want. So I created a website with 460 MPs and senators, but without party division. And there our economists and programmers created an algorithm of negative points for votes that were inconsistent with the idea of ​​the Lafer curve. No, to be objective, it's not that it's inconsistent with my idea of ​​what is good or bad for the economy, but the reference point is the Lafer curve. You will see in a few days, yesterday we officially published and presented this website in our group of experts. in a few, a dozen or so days, all of Poland will see it and we will give it negative points and of course, there will be, let's say, 100, maybe 200 MPs who vote against the interests of the Polish state in the sense of the Lafer Curve, i.e. against the interests of entrepreneurship, i.e. to the detriment of entrepreneurship. If it is to the detriment of entrepreneurship, it is contrary to the state's interests. Well, we already established at the beginning that 90% of all budget revenues come from us. So what will happen then? MPs will have only two options to choose from. First, they will continue to vote as the president punishes, but they will not get in anyway. They may be in the first place, but as we, 15 million people, we entrepreneurs, I will say that we do not vote for those first 150 names , because they voted against the interests of the state, against the interests of entrepreneurship. And our entrepreneurs are 3 million plus families plus employees will not get anywhere. If we say in the media that such and such names don't get in, they wo n't get in anyway. Finally, for the first time, it will be profitable for them to vote in accordance with their own interests, their own conscience and the interests of the state, and not the interests of a political party. Because the interest of a political party is not the interest of the state. It means coming to power, surviving for four years, and if you succeed, eight. And obviously, leave. His party is not interested, therefore no party is interested in any debt. For them, they could get into debt at a rate 10 times greater than political parties, because it is not a party interest, because the party interest is completely different from the state interest and the interest of entrepreneurs. We are the greatest treasure. We entrepreneurs and our employees and the employees of entrepreneurs are the greatest treasure of this country, because we provide 90% of all financing. There is nothing more valuable than us in the Polish state. There is no greater value in the economic sense, because everything that exists in the country, or almost everything that exists in the country, we work for. This is how we must be respected, but we do not believe in politicians. That is why we are creating a government of entrepreneurs for ourselves. And that is why I cordially invite all of you who are here to sign up for www.myprzredsiębijeZdoby.org and the government of entrepreneurs. We will build it ourselves, we will have our own budget of 100 million zlotys to start with. We will create parallel foundations of the state ourselves. Over time, we will develop so many experts. brilliant. For example, you, the editor, together with a group of friends here at the canal, have created a system of educating the average Pole in the field of economics. We will create exactly the same system based on the one the editor brilliantly created and developed, and we will create an analogous one at the level of the entrepreneurial government. We will educate our own experts and over time we will permeate the Polish state at the level of undersecretaries of state, ministers, and directors. We will be infused with people with expert competencies. Professor, there are huge emotions here . I gave vent to them to come out, because it is clear that this is what you are doing, that you have all this at heart. I would use a few words here. First, some people call Poland's situation, there may even be comments like that, the first part of this interview is a bit pessimistic, that it's bad, that everything will collapse, that we have such huge debts, this deficit, these 100 billion a year in interest. Well, you could say that the country is in ruins, that so many companies, 200,000 in debt, suspended operations and so on. Well, huge, huge numbers. Doomsday. On the other hand, there are solutions and great hope. hope, but combined with specific solutions that you showed. I'm sure many people listening today have n't heard of this idea or seen it yet, because it's working somewhere on the sidelines. People live in bubbles, they don't hear about their own affairs. This is obvious, so I'm glad it came up . And thirdly, I would say, using the Krakow referendum as an example, the recall of the president, not the dismissal of the council, or rather the dismissal of the councilors, because the people of Krakow failed to do that, but I have the impression that for some time now, we don't have to put it in a frame, but for some time now, I would call it that the country is waking up, but not the state, but Polish citizens are fed up with the overflowing of so many issues. Krakow is a great example, I'm not getting into politics, but I'm talking about the fact that if the mayor of the city tells the residents that they're living at their expense, he's telling them on social media that if you don't like it, yes, you can move out. Yes, not living in Krakow made me feel like I had been punched in the face. Even though I did n't live in Krakow, that I don't live in Krakow, I thought to myself, what kind of swagger is this? How can you speak to the inhabitants of a city, a beautiful historic city, a city of Polish kings, in such a way? I thought to myself, well, this must have been there at the very beginning, I thought, there must be some punishment for this . I didn't suspect that the residents would get so angry. We know perfectly well how this happens and what consequences it has. Another thing is what will happen there , who will be put there and so on. This is yet another one. But I think this is one of the first such signals to the authorities in general, whether it's the city government, the local government, the one in Warsaw Mountain, the national government, that residents do matter, that residents do have a voice, that entrepreneurs are a force, that farmers are a force, that foresters are a force. after all, these associations, these groups of entrepreneurs, huge farmers, farmers, probably plus families, this is probably the largest group in Poland if there are huge numbers of conscious people who want to live normally and do not want to have a chain of a muzzle around their necks, this is happening. Would you, Professor, call it some kind of, I don't know, awakening? In general, many of these environments today not only watch, not only create. Our metamorphosis itself, where 10,000 Poles have signed up in the last three years who want to change their finances, who do not want to be dependent on banks, people are looking for an alternative in health because they see that they have been deceived for many years. What would you call it? A few years ago there was such a mass uprising on the mental level. a few years ago, together with Paweł Johymek from Olkusz, we founded a social movement called My People, which, you could say, exploded www.myludzie.pl, I encourage you to visit the website, because not everyone is an entrepreneur and not everyone is an employee of the company. There are also people who do not fit into this category, and people need to be integrated. And we created a social movement in which, among other things, he played some role in the matter of this referendum, the Krakow referendum. When I met with the vice-president, one of the vice-presidents of the city of Krakow, and I said: "We, the people, do not accept what you, what you, what you are doing here." We, the people, I will explain this title further, because the highest value in human rights is the right to convenience. And human dignity, that is, we people, that is, we people who are worthy, we people with the right to dignity. This is very important, isn't it, not to take anything away from anyone , not to divide these people, but to unite and integrate people. They may sometimes make mistakes like some officials or politicians, but you still need to have some kind of proposition for them. I say: "Sir, Mr. President, Vice President, you know, I'm very happy that you introduced this clean transportation zone. I really like it, because until now I had nowhere to park. And now I'm here in my car, which burns 21 liters per 100 km. I have so much space, and besides, I'm parked next to some other decent cars, not next to some falling apart ones." And he looked at me like that and it took him a few seconds to understand that it was a heavy irony. When he finally realized that it was a heavy irony, I said: "What have you done? You've introduced the world's first segregation of people. You segregate people into poor people who ca n't afford it, and you don't want it." The educated elites of Krakow don't want poor people who can't afford new cars, but they'll gladly let someone with a car that burns 21 per 100 km enter and you have no problem with that. What are you doing at the human rights level? Honestly, my conversation with him was just a few-minute monologue and really not very polite or classy, ​​but I didn't limit myself to saying what I thought. I say, we people will modify this idea for you anyway, and let's hope it ends with just the modification. And later it turned out to be prophetic, because it turned out that there was an idea for a referendum and it ended very well. We only employ officials. We, the entrepreneurs, have earned money for ourselves and the employees of the entrepreneurs have earned money for the functioning of the institution called the state and we have employed our own officials. Each of us employs officials in our own fraction. We only hired them to make things work better for us, and we pay ourselves for it. And what do officials do? How do they treat us during inspections? As if the tail was wagging the dog, there was a mistake, they got their orders mixed up. Why? Because we don't speak. There is a bit of hidden, well, not intentional, fault on our part, because we are stuck at work. This means it is not our fault, but in such a way that it does not occur to us that we have to say that we are the ones who are responsible for everything that exists in the Polish state. It hadn't occurred to us for years. We didn't say anything. We will speak soon. There is a special campaign that also starts on Monday, in which we will be speaking and there will be thousands of such spots that you will be watching. We bought the F35, we entrepreneurs, we workers and entrepreneurs bought tanks. We will spread this information by thousands, hundreds of thousands, saying that we bought it. And we have employed officials, and they have the audacity and nerve to come out and tell us and mistreat us during inspections. What do these checks look like? I know because I participate in these inspections. I have 12,000 experiences in administrative proceedings alone. That's how many I've conducted. Our law firm is quite large. In connection with the above, I really say I have experience resulting from huge volumes. The result is that over the years of tolerating the unworthy behavior of officials, which we, the entrepreneurs, tolerated, did not intentionally tolerate, but de facto tolerated, we did not put up clear barriers against such practices, that a huge part of the rulings of provincial courts and judges of provincial administrative courts are absolutely illegal because they are based on inference control, which is prohibited by law . a huge part, and it is important for entrepreneurs because we entrepreneurs, in order to obtain a building permit, or any environmental permit, have to work with administrative law. A huge part, I do not want to say the majority, or perhaps even the majority, is based on prohibited actions of both officials and judges. And I say this openly, I even show exactly what this illegality consists of. I personally submit disciplinary motions against judges. It's not that I'm just saying it, but I'm actually directing that I put forward a series of motions for disciplinary proceedings against judges to be notified to prosecutors against judges and officials. I've been doing this for years, ladies and gentlemen . This is not at the level of words and and and test. Therefore, in one of the petitions, which you can still sign in the petition system, you can sign a draft amendment imposing financial penalties on officials and judges and criminal liability on officials and judges for administrative judgments and decisions that are unlawful . It cannot be that we work 18 hours a day, often 7 days a week, and almost every entrepreneur works after 16. We pump in this money and we are not even respected. You know, this is about something so fundamental that even those to whom we pay, those whom we employ, have no respect for us . What you said about the president who spoke like that there is a lack of respect. And every day we experience this lack of respect from the people for whom we collected this money. We collected them through hard work. Let us respect other officials, because they are people who deserve respect, but let them respect us in the same way. Professor Mariusz Miąsko, this is where we make a full stop today. freedom, sovereignty and remembering that we are the ones who earned all this money for the budget. Not politicians, you, the professor, me and our loved ones. Professor, thank you very much for visiting the studio and for so many wise words. Thank you, I am the one . It was a great honor for me . Hold on, take care of your freedom. See you. M