Brett Kennedy, welcome to Acquiring Minds. Thanks for having me. Brett, you bought a moving business. It has been challenging, but I think we're catching you at a good time. You seem to be on stable footing, ready to grow, uh but with some definite battle scars that you're going to share with us. Start us off, Brett, with some background on you, please. Yes. So, we did buy a moving company. Um me personally, I you know, I started professionally play baseball in college. Um I was I was you know, very active in that, very competitive. Um you know, played a little bit after college and that kind of moved me right into the world where I was going to be in something that was sales-related. Um you know, very outgoing, didn't mind pulling a door or two, and you know, getting in there and getting to know people. Um that got me right away as I, you know, got out of ball into um knocking on doors for Ever Jones, financial advisor. Um you know, I was very interested in finance to begin with and, you know, that was really what got me into the professional world. Worked my way through some different organizations in the financial world and landed with um you know, the company that I that I was finally at prior to this acquisition. Um we're a financial advisory company, something I, you know, again, I've always been very passionate about in finance and um you know, we went through an acquisition there. Uh we were at 3 billion when I joined, we eventually um exited at 35 billion in assets under management um to Empower uh Corporation. So, I was with a company called Personal Capital and went um and sold to Empower. So, at that point, um we, you know, we folded in and um I we I had been pursuing, you know, this idea that I could acquire businesses because, of course, being that financial advisor type, I uh I had uh seen what businesses sell for in the public marketplace. 20 to 30 times earnings, you know, and you know, just understanding the fundamentals of that, what that meant for someone's cash when they put it in there. How long they would expect that investment to take in order to return that capital. So then when I was introduced to BizBuySell, I had a friend that sent me a link to a business that was for sale. Immediately I started looking through these and I was like, oh my gosh, like these businesses are selling for two to three times earnings. What's the catch? Um, little did I know that I would learn some of the catches that come with this. There is a catch. Um, but it was it was that first foray, that first discovery and this this ETA world now that is developing so quickly. You know, it took some years before you before before I found some that were interesting, before I figured out how to kind of go through that process, looked a lot. And you know, I don't want to jump too far ahead, but you know, it it did take a few years before I was able to find something that fit what we were looking for. Well, before we get into kind of your your search, let me some follow-up questions. What is the connection between being a really good professional, not in the US but around the world, baseball player and sales? I I think I heard you act like that was a natural progression, but I'm not sure I see the connection. For me it was it was the the work ethic aspect. So being a you know, being as you can well imagine and being a professional athlete, like you've got to go to work when nobody tells you to. You know, I'm I'm working out, I'm training, I'm doing this kind of stuff in the off-season without the supervision of you know, somebody saying here's what you need to go do on a daily basis. I have to create that in order to continue to develop myself to be at a better level when I return the next year. And you know, and that translated directly to the sales roles that I went into because they didn't give me any people to call. You know, they said, "Here's how you do it. You know, go knock on doors." And I threw a suit on and I knocked on 200 doors a day in order to build a book of business and uh you know, then learned that there was some other ways to be able to dispense financial advice to people uh without having to sweat through uh suits on a daily basis. Um but um that was for me at least that's what led that that grit um and that self-drive to um go into a high-performing sales role. Yeah. Yep. And literally knocking on doors. Literally. Knocking on homes. Oh, yeah. I had an app and I tracked every door that I went to, who I spoke to, you what I spoke to them about. Um did that for about 6 hours a day and then went to networking events all night. Wow. So, it was very difficult. And were were you able to build a book of business ultimately? Indeed. Yep. So, was able to kind of jump straight out and build a book there um and then was put in a position to take over a book um from somebody that had vacated an office and um it's just kind of in that organization success begets success. They they reward people who um do well and um and help them grow. And one other thing I recall from our pre-call, Brett, uh that's relevant, I think, is your childhood in a small business family. Give us give us a little color there. Indeed. Um you know, I I was in a small business when I was born. Uh my family owned and operated a they they still do a electrical contracting business here in Atlanta, commercial. Um they're a union business. Been here in Atlanta for almost as long as I've been alive, literally just a few years short of that. Um you know, dinner table conversation at our house was accounts receivable, accounts payable, you know, who's you know, what customer's doing what, what employee's doing what, and that, you know, that was dinner time talk for us when we did get to have that dinner where we all sat down. Often times it was one or the other parent rushing home that to pick us up and try to cook dinner while the other was still working. You know, saw first hand them, you know, struggle during times and be successful during times, you know, go through 2008 and then eventually I worked in the business with them as well. Not in a, you know, very productive capacity, but you know, I was when I was old enough to sort bolts in the warehouse, I was back there, you know, doing whatever I thought could be productive in that aspect. So just grew up in that environment. Do you feel like the quality of life that it afforded your family was strong? Or was it I guess how well did they do with this small business? Yeah, I mean for My parents both come from broken families. You know, they they come from, you know, alcoholic parents to where they both left their parents at 18, you know, to go out and start their life. They didn't get this, you know, nice cushy college that that I got or, you know, earned through, you know, playing baseball and being dedicated to something, but at the same time with the support of them. They didn't have that. You know, my dad went straight into the trade. He was an electrician right away. You know, my mom was CPA, a controller for a company. And it, you know, it took them a little while to get into the business and part of, you know, when I reflect on that and a lot of things that we've discussed over the years that I see is that they were very in their business. You know, my dad was an electrician. He was You know, he knew what he needed to know in order to do that great and be, you know, that expert to his customers when he was out there. The one thing that they did over time, they grew, they had project managers, they had employees. They they grew to have, you know, 40 to 60 people at times depending on how large projects were Um but often the biggest struggle for them was was hiring people and replacing themselves on things. They you know my dad would take on so much and he would be there till 8:00 at night finishing everything that he needed to finish just to be productive in his way and you know over the years I saw that and I saw that and I'm like guys you you know outside looking in it's it's easy to have an opinion that way it's like hey you know you could be you could hire people to do this yeah you you might make a little less and I wasn't privy to that picture at that time but you know it the I was privy to see how much they worked and you know while they did stop and do the things that mattered a lot to us take me to all these crazy baseball you know events and like things like that growing up same with my sister they they were very very dedicated to working in their business continuously and that business does still continue in fact my sister later joined them as their controller my brother-in-law later joined as a project manager and then my parents phased out and this could be one of those success stories of it actually passing to the next generation and continuing which is No no searcher's going to get their hands on on your parents business. No no searcher you know but but two really good people in a great position to run it my sister and brother-in-law. Well I guess I guess that's a pretty profound takeaway from seeing your parents in the business all those years we all it's such a cliche to talk about being in versus on the business we all kind of know it but you really saw it first hand up close for years in in a very personal visceral way with your own parents so I suspect you're just more cognizant of that than than others who are who are just kind of have the book knowledge about that but never really experienced it deeply. I'm sure I'm sure we swing the opposite way, you know, that most people do. Um but the you know, the thing that I'll say about that is there it isn't that I didn't end up doing things in the in my own business when I did take over a business and go through this. Um so pretty you know, not previewing that too much, but you know, a very had very working very much in the business um in the very beginning of taking over the company we acquired. Sure. Sure. Good teaser. Let's carry on here, Brett. Uh coming back up to your financial advisor, doing well, but uh somebody a colleague, a friend puts on your radar the idea of buying a business. So you have a uh flirtation with BizBuySell over the years. You keep your eye on things for literally a few years. You just kind of check in every now and then. Is that this is what your quote search kind of looks like or your your journey into this actually doing it? Yeah, and and then BizBuySell was not as pretty as it is now. Um it was a it was a clunky website uh in the beginning of this. This was probably, you know, 2018, 2019 when I started looking at it. So it was, you know, definitely not as um as as well put together as it is now with as many deals on there as there are now. Um it was just a pretty simple website with some businesses on there and it really not much showing up. They didn't even have a newsletter to sign up for yet at that point. So you couldn't like get in there and say, "Hey, I want to search for these businesses." You just kind of had to go in and check um to see what was posted on there. Um and at that point there wasn't a lot of other options. Um BizQuest, you know, some other small ones that never um really became as large as they are now. Um so just started looking in that way and calling people, asking questions, digging deeper to see if that's something that was even interesting because I really had no idea like what what business I wanted to own at this point. I What could I see myself doing? I knew that I was looking for something that you know, wasn't flashy or sexy. I didn't want a software company or something you know, volatile. I wanted something that would be stable. I've grew up in a blue-collar business, you know, something that you know, could could be you know, stable and something that I could go out and grow um with my skill set um that maybe isn't already in that business yet. So just some high-level criteria to begin with. Yeah. Great. Well, when you saw this business what was what was it that that turns you on and and maybe tell us about the business? Yeah, so I saw this one it actually came through on a newsletter from Transworld agent. So I had you know, visited some of theirs and and taken a look at some deals and then they ended up signing me up for a newsletter. Saw this one come through, made my normal call just to to talk to the broker about it and it just you know, started asking more and more questions about the business because it was a it was it was for sale for two times earnings. It was you know, again, it's not moving. It's not sexy, but it is very needed until they have software programs that can move people out of their homes. You're going to need somebody to go in there and do that and need the equipment to do it as well. So um that was what really in the beginning kind of speak my curiosity and then as we went through the process of asking more questions, digging a little deeper, gathering financials, you know, and just kind of looking through everything. It was just like, hey, this is a you know, a pretty clean, you know, pretty well-run small business, you know, I don't know if you want to go into numbers right now, but you know, they They doing about a million in sales, a little less than a million in sales. And um it it it was a a decent brand. Um that was the one thing that I noticed right away. They had a pretty well put together branding structure, and you know, they had kind of a lot of the the bones there um that I knew that I could build off of in order to create it a household name here in Atlanta. Mhm. So, what's the name of the brand? It's called the Furniture Taxi. The Furniture Taxi. You know, it's funny about that, Brick, cuz I too noticed that about the about the business when I first checked out your your website. Um it's that's a that's a much stronger brand than you know, Smith Moving, which is kind of the the the typical brand naming format of a moving company. I mean, they they really don't have very sexy names. Um and Furniture Taxi's memorable, and it's got a nice logo to go along with it, the yellow and black kind of vibe, uh like a taxi. Uh it's pretty it's pretty good. Yeah. Um makes those trucks very noticeable when you see them driving down the road. Well, I want to hear more about the business, but before we do, let's be clear that you actually had put LOIs into uh couple LOIs out before, right? So, this wasn't your first shot. Yeah, and give us just a few few minutes on that real quick, so we know how how serious you've gotten before you actually go for this one. Yeah, so we had put um we had submitted a couple LOIs on offers that are on businesses that didn't get accepted. Um naturally, better offers, people in a better position um for it. And um you know, it didn't stop us. We continued to pursue others, and then we did submit an LOI on a business prior to this one. Um and this was right before COVID, so this is, you know, before we even knew um what that was. And that one in particular we did get accepted, and we were starting just at the very beginning of the due diligence process. Um and then this brand new thing called COVID all of a sudden happened and this business was very reliant on, uh, public parks, um, recreation centers, um, that were state and federally owned and all of a sudden they had nowhere to execute their business model anymore. Um, all those parks suspended, you know, the contracts that they had with people like them to be able to use their facilities and they just came to an a a screeching halt. Um, you know, call it divine intervention, call it destiny if you want to, but in, you know, that, uh, happening at that moment I do see as, I mean, beautiful business and I'm sure they've they've very well recovered from that now, um, but um, at that moment it was like, "Wow, this doesn't seem like uh, this seems like this happened for a reason. So, let's, uh, let's move on." And it did, you know, it it you know, they they basically pulled out and said, "Hey, like right now we need to focus on, um, recovering our our company." And, um, so, we moved on and then this other one came along. business, Brett? It was an adult kickball league. Adult kickball. That's such a that's such a fun one. Amazing that they had and it was actually generated real revenue. I mean, this was this was something you could make a living doing. They made, uh, mult- you know, multiple millions of dollars in revenue per year off of their subscriptions. Yeah, they were in 17 cities, they, you know, and I mean, talk about a goodwill related business. They had no assets. I mean, we're talking maybe about $12,000 worth of kickballs, uh, but you know, like they had nothing except for that they just generated a huge amount of cash flow, uh, with their, you know, their yearly dues for people who played in these leagues. And the funny thing is I played in the one of these leagues previously. in DC when I lived here the first time I remember kickball being a thing. You go going out and playing kickball, and all it was always like the the um reputation was always that it was a really boozy thing. Like not to be taken seriously. People basically 20 and 30-somethings partying after work around kickball. So, it might have been it might have been these guys. An excuse to to party. Like a beer softball league, yep. Absolutely. exactly. That's so interesting. Well, good for them. After the kickball league, the next acquisition was the one you did. Yes, that was the furniture taxi. Furniture taxi. Okay. So, let's hear more now about furniture taxi. The You've told us revenue was shy of a million bucks. The multiple was great at 2x. The You liked the brand. How many employees? At the time, um they had like 12 employees. Okay. Um and so, most of those would have been out in the field employees. Um the the previous owner was very hands-on in the business. Was very So, to which is to say what? That they were out in the field, too? Uh no. More operating it, you know, sales, any any type of admin office, you know, answering phones, that type of stuff. Um you know, uh hiring, kind of every aspect. It was kind of a a one, you know, a head of the organization, then everybody else was pretty much either moving or driving a truck at that point. Um wasn't quite displayed that way as advertised, but you know, that's that's the way that the business operated. They It was very much owner operated. Um there was there was no other support employees. Okay. All right. So, you're see you the picture of the business as you see it is the movers and truck drivers out in the field, and then the owner-operator at the office basically doing everything else. But, um it did feel like you could basically he'd step out, you'd step right in and continue doing what he's doing. Yeah, absolutely. So my my intent, you know, kind of the initial impression I got as we did some interviews um through the due diligence process was I'd be doing a lot of sales, which I was already doing and I was pretty okay with. Um but there was a lot of untapped potential because they were pretty happy with where the business was. They weren't trying to go north with it. They were just, you know, nice and stable and happy with the money that they were making from it uh with the effort that they were having to put in. Um for me that, you know, as an acquirer that sounded like growth, right? Hey, you're you're not doing as much as you could to develop the business and, you know, it sounds like I can step in and, you know, really blow this thing up. Um which which we have. Um but yeah, it was it was a I I we we go and we'll talk about this, I'm sure, versus like, you know, buying a job and buying, you know, a business that's operating and and, you know, kind of the difference in sizes and um and what that means. Speaking of size, uh a million bucks or close to a million bucks at a moving company, what does that mean for margins and ultimate SDE that you take home? Are they even taking home? with their participation they were in the mid to low 200s. So like ranging from 225 to 250 on a yearly basis. 225 to 225 to 250 on a yearly basis. The SDE. Now you keep saying they. So is that for one person or two people? Well, I I did find out a little bit later that their the um girlfriend/wife was also very active in the business and that, you know, we didn't talk about that much in our interviews um that there was some assistance there. So, you know, when I came in the um the task were more um were larger and and of more quantity than I anticipated. Because you were absorbing his work plus her work and her work was had been understated. Okay. And um how did you how did you rationalize the low multiple? Once you got over your excitement you could see maybe being like, well, maybe that's actually a yellow or red flag. It's not good news. I didn't see that. I'll be honest. You thought it was all good news? Well, I didn't you know, I wasn't blind by, hey, you know, I'm going to need to go in there and I'm going to probably need to spend some money on some things whether that's freshening up trucks, you know, doing more branding, doing more advertising actually and and spending a little bit more than they were in that way. Um but, you know, initially it was more like, hey, like this is this is a decent sweet spot after debt service coverage then I'm going to have a I'm going to have about this much money and then, you know, I also in in um my personal situation, we were already a high-income household and two W-2 incomes, we were we were paying a lot in taxes. So, with uh acquiring a business that is asset heavy like this one, we were going to receive some pretty heavy tax advantages in the first few years of this acquisition. So, part of the part of the figuring was that, hey, after debt service we're going to have some pretty decent money left over and then also we are going to save significantly on the taxes we're paying on a yearly basis. And how did you structure the deal? Interesting piece of it. Um so, in the transportation industry, we have licenses and registrations that are required. Um same thing for insuring a company like this. So, we did a um stock transaction that is treated like an asset sale. Um uh and you know, with basically it's called a section 338 H10 and that allows the tax treatment of the sale to be treated as an asset sale, but it allows us to maintain the entity um for those other purposes. So, in order to keep our DOT numbers, our motor carrier numbers, in order to keep those numbers, you know, um reflecting in our insurance because if you go out as a individual and you want to start Will Smith Moving Company here, you can't get insured. Mhm. And on having, you know, multiple commercial vehicles, your insurance would be absolutely through the roof. Um you need some age to your carrier numbers um and part And that's a little bit of a hurdle of people getting into, you know, actually legitimately creating companies like this. Um the other side of this, too, is there is value in um a corporation's credit history. Um so, that they have, you know, kept good credit. They've done a good job over time paying their trade lines back and keeping trade lines open. Um that does allow, I think it's an understated part of an acquisition that does allow um future growth and our future credit for things you may need in order to grow the business, like eventually buying new trucks or taking out trade lines. Um so, that was a big piece of it. The biggest piece was the um insurance and licensing aspect. So, we retained the entity and um did the tax treatment as an asset sale, which allowed us to have, you know, accelerated depreciation on almost all of the assets in the business in the first year. And then, um the the stock sale allowed us to retain that entity, which we now operate through our through a holding company. Okay. That was great. And Brett, just the point about the uh working capital and getting credit as a brand new entity which if you do it the traditional way, which is an asset purchase, you're a brand new entity. Um surprise I Surprisingly this doesn't come up more, but it did come up in a big way in an episode with Adrian Pinto probably a year ago, maybe more now, who's local to you, bought a landscaping business in Atlanta and as he as he wanted to grow he could grow there was the demand to grow but getting working capital getting lines of credit for his new entity to buy trucks and so on proved really really hard because it was a new entity without without credit history. So I mean so hard that it kind of it it caused him to make a particular strategic decision in the direction of the business. So I said that at the time I I'm interesting I wonder why this hasn't come up more and I'll say it again cuz it hasn't come up again for another year until right now. But it's good it's a good call out for people to be thinking about. And Brett tell us a little bit about more about the tax advantage. Can you actually put a number to this? So first define exactly what it what it means to accelerate to accelerate depreciation and then if you can actually give us a number of what that meant that'd be great. Yeah, you're going to really play to your geeky listeners here. This is this is what I enjoy as being the financial guy. So when we acquire this business I'll run through some numbers really quick. It had just under $200,000 in depreciable assets. That's going to be trucks, you know, equipment in the back, storage vaults, dollies, everything to down to the desk and computers that are in our office there. When you make an acquisition like this the total purchase price is what's going to be figured into your balance sheet and how you own this business like you know, especially the debt portion of it, but the assets and the purchase price is going to dictate, just like you buying a car, right? I'm buying this whole business, and then that business is going to be segregated in the purchase price when you agree on it with your seller that at what what monies are attributed to what, right? So, when we went through our purchase agreement, our our final delegation was $200,000 to furniture, fixtures, and everything there, and then um you know, $200,000 to goodwill, $60,000 applied to the um to the seller non-compete, and you know, so on so forth. That math is not going to add up to what my actual numbers were, but I'm throwing some things out there for this example, and each are going to be depreciable at a certain level, just like, you know, with a home or rental home or somebody that does cost segregation analysis in a rental property. Like, everything's going to be depreciable at a different level immediately upon acquisition in your purchase. All the furniture, fixtures, and everything are going to be depreciable. Um especially in our case, because all of the vehicles were Section 179. They're all very large trucks. Um so, all of that portion of it was depreciable right away in the first year. Um so, right away, any money we made in the business in the first year, or probably two, um was tax-free to us. Mhm. Um but also, for me personally, since I was, you know, making multiple six figures on top of, you know, my wife who's also does very well for herself, that decreased our taxable income down to where the business was essentially showing a loss versus her taxes or her W-2 income versus my W-2 income stacking on top of it and creating us towards higher percentages and higher brackets. Mhm. So, in that first year, we were able to take almost $100,000 in depreciable loss while we had a net gain of six figures plus. Um so, you know, the ideal scenario. We had some cash coming in and um and then we saved a significant amount on our personal taxes. So, so income goes up, but actual tax percentage goes down. Um and and so, like a hundred just to be absolutely clear, people will understand, but a hundred thousand dollars a hundred thousand dollar loss, so this accelerated depreciation would come out to 30 to 40 grand essentially in tax savings. So, 30 to 40 grand in your pocket. Or you could say to yourself, 30 to 40 grand I actually paid 30 or 40 grand less for the business. I mean, treat it how you want. Um but it but that's that's real meaningful. That's obviously really meaningful amount of money. That was That was great. Um And And Brett, but it just so I understood is something in there was a little gray for me. Your W-2 money, so I guess you made all your salary from your W-2 right up until the point that you took ownership of this was that money was going to be taxed and was significant for that year, but obviously the subsequent years you were just going to be taking whatever the business could afford to pay you. Correct. Yeah. And and you know, since the business on paper wasn't really making money because again, all of those losses and depreciable assets, I didn't really have a requirement to pay myself. You know, you don't you're not required to pay yourself anything as an owner if you're not making any money inside the business. Um but but importantly there, I you know, with my job in previous years, our combined income stacking on top of each other created a very heavy tax burden for us. Um and it immediately did mine no longer created higher brackets for that money that I was making. and then um in fact, it deducted some from her to continue to lower our burden down there while we were still able to collect um decent amount of cash through the business. But, to be clear, this tax benefit is just a one-time this acceleration is just a one-time. It's as you take ownership of the business and accelerate all those assets in one fell swoop. Going forward in subsequent years, year two, three, and beyond, you're paying normal tax and everything. Indeed. Yeah, especially for the accelerated assets. But, then as you trickle down through the other portions of the purchase agreement, you're going to have your goodwill, which is depreciable at a different schedule than these assets that we're discussing. Um so, that will carry through for not going to quote any accounting here for the amount of time that uh that that is depreciable. And then the same thing with the um seller non-compete. That's an depreciable asset as well over a certain amount of time. So, there is carry forward stuff that will continue to provide tax benefits to you as an owner. And then especially in an asset-based business like this, you know, we're going to buy new trucks. Um you know, this past year we bought a new truck. And even though we're financing it, that purchase is 100% depreciable right away um so, we'll pay for it over time, but they'll give us the tax benefit right away um for purchasing it. Mhm. Great. Yes, sir. And I'm getting the sense too that the uh uh the SDE that the business was going to pay you was going to be a significant step down from what you were making in your W-2? Before taxes, yes. Um but but netting out after everything, it was going to be a pretty good wa- almost a wash for us um where we're saving money on taxes and not having to pay as much out. You know, I'm I'm working you know, not being very uh exact here, but I could I could have worked half the year. And to pay for the taxes that we'd owe, and then the rest of the year we're actually net positive on what I was working for there at, you know, just counting it on top of what my wife makes as well. So, it was um it was uh it was not that much of a change um on, you know, when it when it actually gets sorted out in in your uh tax returns. Okay. Okay. All right. And what was the structure in terms of SBA and financing, etc.? Um this one we had um I pursued a quite a few lenders. So, I'm a you know, I'll I'll go I'm not afraid to call people. Um so, we I pursued quite a few lenders just to see what kind of terms were out there. You know, I found one that I liked. Um it was a pretty normal SBA 7A structure, uh prime plus, I believe on a smaller deal like this at the time they were prime plus 2.25 um at the time of taking that deal. I mean, we're talking about like 6 and 1/2%. So, I was not too, you know, worried about that at the time. Um but as you know now, that's significantly different. Um and and and and adds significantly more debt service um with higher interest rates as they've gone up. Yeah. Yep. Uh we did uh we did about we did a little a little over 10% down. I think we did 15% down. It was um just a a hair over half a million dollars as a purchase purchase price. Um about 520,000 as a purchase price. We did, you know, about 10% down, 15% down, and then the seller carried a a small portion about 5% as a note as well. Um so, as we structured everything out, then the bank covered the rest. And um yeah, and it was um I'm I'm to think of any details forgot there. Pretty pretty straightforward. yep, that's what I was asking for. Okay, and so before we hear how it's gone, set the stage one last time as to what you envision life would now be that you'd have what, 10 employees out in the field, you'd be at the office dispatching them, doing sales, doing back office, and then doing what you can to grow. That would That's kind of That was the picture of your your your imaginings of your life. Yeah, that was in my mind's eye. I'm I'm, you know, picturing this transition and I knew there'd be a slight transition from managing, you know, financial advisors to managing movers and truck drivers and, you know, the the people that work in that way. Um, but, you know, I I was very confident in my ability to just go in there and just go and if I if it meant going and knocking on doors again to grow this company and find new customers and get out there and get into the marketplace, I knew that I could do that. Um, I was confident in my ability to do that. And then I was also confident in my technical ability. So, like just to to do some basic accounting, to use, you know, to use QuickBooks, to to know how to set up Google My Business profiles and to make sure that ads are running properly and by no means am I an SEO wizard or any of that, but I knew enough there in the beginning to really, you know, to really light the business on fire in a way that it just hasn't hadn't been doing before. Um, and luckily the organic nature of this business, um, having already been in Atlanta for 10 to 12 years, this is the one of the things that attracted me to it, was that it did have a a reasonable returning customer base. You know, people that moved every, you know, so many years that had used them previously. It did have a footprint on Google where it was searchable. Um, there's a lot of competition there, but it was there. It was in a region. It was searchable. Um, and then they had some contracts that, um, provided them steady business for like, you know, relocating big buildings. Um, you know, multi-unit apartment complexes and that kind of stuff. So, they they had some stuff there that they didn't have to I didn't have to go out and find that I knew that when I did go out and find what I was looking for in more business that it was going to be able to stack on top of it. And you know, provide growth. And it was residential moving only. It is residential moving only. It's a 90% residential moving. We'll do some commercial, light commercial. Okay. All right, Brett. So, what about the picture that you just painted ended up being a little bit not so accurate once you get in there as new owner? Well, you don't know what you don't know. So, when I got into the business, one of the the the first things that I noticed right away is that I was going to be dealing with just a with different types of people than I that I had before. Um, employees and managing, you know, a different type of person that I had before. Um, with different goals, different mentalities, different, you know, ways that they think about work and different responsibilities outside of work. They didn't necessarily, you know, tie them to have to show up to collect a paycheck. So, it it the first thing that I quickly learned was this is that the most one of the most unstable parts of this business is trying to continue to keep quality people working there. Um, then the things as, you know, I grew into the business, things started becoming, you know, more and more evident as I wanted to grow. I'm I'm bumping a ceiling and I'm I'm so busy doing all of these other things that, you know, growth is hard because I'm I'm already stretched thin doing a lot of the aspects of the business, whether that, like you said, is dispatching or just the administrative stuff that goes on behind the scenes with with licensing, registrations, keeping track of that stuff. There a lot of moving pieces when it's just you right there and in the front office and when the phone rings it's either you answer it or nobody does. So that was very overwhelming. It was I want it wasn't just physically overwhelming. It was very emotionally overwhelming because you're you're diving into uncharted territory. I've heard people on your podcast say this before a variety of different ways. You know, someone calls it a knife fight and like you know, where every single day they go in it's a knife fight to a bloody knife fight to to win that day. Another mentioned getting punched in the face every day a bunch of times as they go in. I mean this is that's a that is a very valid feeling and very relatable for me for what I felt. You know, some days it just seemed like everything was going wrong. And that how how am I going to do this? How how am I going to like this is so different and not just for me but for my family. You know, for my wife as well. We're we're experiencing this big question mark because checks aren't rolling in like they do with the with the corporate job. We're trusting that the math and every all this theoretical stuff that you know, had gotten us into this was going to come to fruition and and that you know, money was going to show up in the bank. After after doing this work, but no one prepared me for the mentality shift that was that was going to happen in a there and a lot of that I think had to do with some of these these things I was having to deal with that I just didn't expect to have to deal with. People just not showing up to work, right? I told you a story when we first talked about this. You know, I'd have a I call him I call him Uber the guy and he you know, the previous owner had just been trying to keep things together, you know, as they were trying to sell the business and, you know, pretty much doing whatever he could to um get people into work. And um you know, and get the work done for their customers. And there was this one gentleman in particular that I nicknamed Uber, um but he would, you know, kind of corner the previous owner into Ubering him to work um if there was any sort of thing like any sort of uh trouble for him to get to the bus stop to take Marta um up a few stations to get to work. And in order to keep things nice and, you know, smooth there, the owner was going along with it. He wasn't, you know, having he wasn't just saying no, I'll go hire somebody else. He, you know, he was just paying this guy's Uber and just kind of letting him do it cuz the guy knew what he needed to do on these projects and he didn't want to have to train somebody new. Um that was an immediate no for me. Um I was not going to Uber a grown man um to come to work so that I could pay him to work. And um uh uh my I guess my pride up to that point just wouldn't allow me to do it. I hopped in the truck and and drove myself. Um but he was one of he was a truck driver. He was a very important truck driver and so that that's why he was kind of cornering him like he needed him to come in and drive that truck and he, you know, was kind of he was definitely taking advantage of him in that way to, um you know, to get him transported back and forth to work. And I just I wasn't there for that. And I so, you know, that day that that finally came to a a head, I hopped in the truck, I drove myself, I um you know, I did that a few days there in the very beginning. Um I was just listening to one you your most recent one um where the gentleman was driving the auto parts delivery at night. And that's exactly how I felt. It wasn't as long as they, you know, did that, but uh that's, you know, exactly how I felt. Very humbled, um you know, going home from that in those type of situations. It's like, what in the world um have I done here? you You know, I'm I'm I didn't anticipate I'd be driving a moving truck and and doing this. So, humbling, but also at the same time has really helped my mentality of what's important for me and my own business for me to have in place. So, having employees in place in between me and that to keep that from happening or having people as backups in order to keep that from happening. On that point, Brett, we could I could take that in you're teeing me up to take it in three different directions that are um I know we're headed. Let's let's let's go with the big one, the size of the business. Okay, so regular listeners will know that size of business is always one of the the big questions. Conventional wisdom says buy bigger for for a number of reasons. One of the biggest, if not the biggest reason, is exactly what you just articulated, that there's more infrastructure there. So, it's not you know, you're not one letting one employee go away from disaster for you doing the work or you carrying boxes or being in the truck. On the other hand, there's also example after example of Acquiring Minds guests who bought something really really small and they learned the business that way, learned it intimately and sometimes painfully and sweatily but felt that and pulled themselves out, grew the business and now their business is you know, at the size where where they you know, the ideal is, you know, at $750 million in EBITDA and SDE and they have a really small loan because they bought a really small business. And so, they're they're able to pocket more of that SDE. And in the interim, they've really learned the business intimately. So, anyway. Uh I How do you feel reflecting back? You bought a 200 call it 250,000 SDE business. That's quite small, smaller than the conventional wisdom says to buy by a lot. And you experienced firsthand how fragile it was. So, I give all that to you to react to, please. Indeed. So, there there are good things and bad things about smaller businesses when you're looking at them to acquire. That'll That'll be the visual of it, right? Smaller ones are going to command a lower multiple. You know, because you are buying something that is going to be more demanding of you as the buyer. You're you know, and to use all you know, those terms, you're buying a job, right? In a lot of senses. Um for my personal investment goals, you know, take it back to like a fiduciary advisor here, right? For my personal investment goals, it was not my goal to have to be so involved in a business that it was going to pull me away from this idea of building a portfolio of businesses, like businesses and/or unlike businesses. Um you know, but still this idea that our eventual goal was to continue to size up and grow our portfolio through acquisition um in in order to to combine businesses together to achieve an SDE goal like you talk about, like a million plus or you know, a deal like that. The The first thing, you know, in the beginning and one of the ideas behind this when we were acquiring the Furniture Taxi was, well, hey, yeah, there's not a there's not as much risk here. Yeah, it's a smaller deal. We're not you know, we're not coming out way out on a limb for a $3 million purchase price and the SBA wants to take everything from you to guarantee it. Um you know, it was a it was a smaller size deal, a little less risk. It you know, right away as you can tell on those numbers, you know, we're looking at and saying, hey, we can probably, if we don't take any money out, we can probably just pay this thing off in a couple years and have a really nice, you know, cash-flowing business there. Um but in reflection now, it's as I look to continue this as we're, you know, working on other deals and um you know, in um due diligence on another deal right now, it took me a way longer than I expected from that portfolio build. And as you well know, there's there's never a timeline on that stuff because you may not find the right deal. It's going to take three It could take 3 years or it could show up overnight and you could end up doing three acquisitions at once like a lot of your guests have. Um but it's you know, it's for for me and my personal goal of building and continuing to grow, it did pause that timeline a little bit longer than I expected. Um you know, the proof of concept happened. We saw that, you know, this business can make some money and that it can service debt and that, you know, hey, like, okay, this works. Um it gave, you know, a couple people, myself and my wife, that the confidence that this is a pathway as well. So, that that's one thing that it did serve a good purpose for, but the other side of it was it served a lot of pain for that purpose. Um you know, I've I've worked really hard for the past couple years to get the business to a point where I'm not necessary in every single thing that happens inside of the business to to cushion myself, to put people in a gainful position so that they can help coordinate some of the things that I don't like to coordinate so much. Like I don't I don't like doing the dispatching and scheduling and communicating with um you know, all all of the guys that much. I I like having somebody in between there so that I can focus more on the part that I'm contributing to at this point, which is still pretty heavily in sales and that, you know, obviously, the administrative and back-end stuff uh that goes into running a business, but um I will say that as I reflect now, it was smaller than I the goal that I had should have should have allowed me to buy. And part of that's education, part of that's me not knowing what I didn't know at the time. Um so, a lesson in time, I guess that would be. Um but, you know, in that I have also gained so many other lessons that I believe will contribute to continue building this portfolio for my family. Well, that was going to be that was going to be the thing that I asked is there's this optimistic interpretation of of buying too small but still growing it as I said earlier, that you just you touch every nook and cranny of the business. You understand it at a deeper, more intimate level as painful as it was to do so. That in that there's value in that going forward. Or is that is that woo-woo and optimistic and really really not that valuable? I mean, I'm sure I could have learned those lessons in a business twice the size. Yeah, I could have learned the exact same ones, but I could have led down a pathway and continued to educate myself in this space and just, you know, continue to take in information from people that know more or know differently than I know, which is, you know, one thing I love about listening to, you know, your podcast, other people's podcast, talking to people, meeting with people, you know, and and networking with other people that do this. I learn something new every day. Um with with what's out there. I really enjoy the space in general and and talking about it and learning more about it, but it has contributed to now having a bit more um uh I don't want to say restraint, but I have a stricter uh focus now on what I'm looking for in the next business. And this one that we're going through due diligence on right now, I have a stricter mindset on what I need to come from that business because it will take up more of my time. It will take a capacity from me. It will you know, provide some synergy hopefully between the two if if that works out. So, it it it allowed me to really narrow my focus in on what I wanted to happen next with a bit more knowledge than I had to begin with making the decision on that first one. I will never tell someone not to go buy a business that size if if that is what their goal is. Everybody has a little bit of a different income goal or a little bit of a different what they want to have to do or the speed that they want to have to do it kind of goal. So, I'll never say, "Hey, don't buy a business that small because you're going to end up slowing your pace down of building a portfolio because maybe they're not looking to do that. Maybe they're Maybe they would like to have a business that size and you know, and work in it and it because it's something that they love to do. I I'm I'm not passionate about being a mover or or moving, but I am very passionate about building great businesses and serving people around me and providing employment and you know, providing for my family through this means. Well, just before we get too far away from the the bloody knife fight, is there any anything more to say about that, Brett? Like how that really felt or maybe any other examples? Just cuz I I just want to hit it home. Your your story about Uber. You know, the guy called Uber who demanded that that he his Uber into work be paid for and you cut him loose and have to drive it the truck that day. Is is really illustrative, but um you know, I could I could see somebody being like, "Well, whatever, you know, that you know, that was that's a colorful story and he That was an unfortunate day. Um but, you know, day comes and goes. He gets a replacement, big deal. But it But this experience is actually much more emotionally taxing than that. So sometimes I feel like a single story doesn't really capture how in the in the depths of it, how hard it was. I mean, you were really discouraged at times. By the way, I should say um Christian Bateson uh introduced us, and Christian, of course, is Atlanta-based and was uh a guest probably his air air episode air probably a month and a half ago, the construction cleanup business. Um and a big proponent of this life path. But um he mentions your story and how it was really hard for you. Kicking ass now, but it was really hard for you at at the low points. So I just before we get away from that, I just want to give you the opportunity to tell us more about how hard it was. Yeah, I mean, I So I I tell you the the Uber story because that's a It's got some color to it. Yeah, and it's and it's funny, and it's got a nickname, and it's, you know, it's just a It's something that we joke about internally now with um you know, with the guys that I work with. And it that I I only tell that one because of the color. There're dozens of days, you know, uh dozens and dozens of days like that where people didn't show up, where um people did show up, but they didn't show up in a capacity that they could go out uh to do a job in someone's home. Um and Because they're drunk. You mean? Drunk, high, I don't know, you know. Yeah, right. You never Pick your poison. Um attitude, you know, there's a there's a variety of situations um that showed up there, and it There were I mean, there was a solid I would say for the first 6 months, I was going I was waking up every morning, going in, just waiting for a text message from somebody, "Oh, I'm not going to be there." Or just waiting for, you know, someone to call out, or to, you know, say that and it and the reason I say that is because being so early in the business, I didn't really have like this great hiring pipeline of people that were just kind of waiting in the wind to be able to pull in, or people that I knew that just kind of wanted some part-time work where I could call them and say, "Hey, you know, you want to come drive? Somebody didn't show up, you know, that kind of thing." It was I was pretty fresh. I didn't have a lot of resource in that capacity, and the previous owner was no was no longer in the picture, um barely even communicating. So, it was it was like for 6 months, it was almost on a daily basis I was waking up and not sleeping on the on the front of that, not being able to sleep because I'm just waiting to receive this fateful text message that's just going to really mess up this day. And when you're emotionally, when you're in I'm going to go in there and I'm going to grow this thing, and I'm working my tail off, and I'm doing all this stuff, and putting these, you know, putting guys in the position to get have gainful employment and full employment, and, you know, I want to get more work because I want to get more guys in there, um to have booked a day where it's maybe the one of the largest days you've booked so far as you're on this um on this path towards growth, to then have multiple people not show up. And and and to, you know, I can't tell you a specific story, but a day where two drivers don't show up. I can't drive two trucks. So, you know, it you know, it you know, becomes this balance um emotionally, too, of of learning how to handle those type of situations and that type of stress. Um and then eventually, you know, as as people do, you you figure out a way to make that not happen anymore. Um and you know, that's what we have we have gotten much better at that, and then I've also put some people in positions where I won't be the first call if uh somebody doesn't show up and they need to go drive they they can go and do it on that behalf. But that also keeps the business from slowing down. If I'm out there doing that, I'm not booking moves. I'm not doing the other stuff that I need to be doing in the business. Brett, one of the things that people who have talked about their own fetal positions in their early ownership of a business have said is that part of the fetal position experience or the despair in during the transition is that you're learning how to deal with stress. You're learning how to deal with emotionally regulate against the slings and arrows that are that are coming at you so so hard. And so and then you learn, you regulate, you build a muscle. And so then 2 years later you look back at some of those things that happen on those hard days in month three or month six. And you say, well that happens today, but I just react different. I'm more zen about things. So yes, businesses improved. Yes, maybe layers of management. Yes, there have been mechanical improvements to the business so that those situations maybe are are buffered or avoided altogether. However, also you just you just deal you just you just can handle it emotionally better cuz you've you've you know, you've developed the the muscle to do that. Is that is that a is that a dynamic you notice in yourself? 100%. Things still happen on a daily basis. You know, disappointing things show up or and whether that be like as as small as somebody not showing up for you know, a job or somebody doing something less than intelligent on a job site in someone's home or you know, so on and so forth or a hurdle last you know, an a giant increase in your insurance expense or all of a sudden a bill showing up that you didn't expect to happen that's passed through from your landlord or you know, or or or like it's it is a it's a daily battle for recognizing that hey, things are going to happen. You know, you're built to do it and it's it does take a little time to realize and and be confident that you're you're built to do it and it's you're going to solve it. It just you know, you don't have to it's not always a red alarm fire that you need to you know, run in and put out. So I mean and I think that is that leans then back towards like trusting your people when you do have those people in that position to do um you know, to do what they're supposed to do to do what they're you know, what you've tasked them to do and um it it softens that a little. Well, and you've now hinted at a few times. I wanted to make sure we get there. You said on the pre-call that an inflection point in your experience here was hiring somebody to to basically be a a layer between you and the guy the guys in the field the movers themselves. I call it a GM. I don't know what title you want to to call it. But it was just a really profound shift in the business. Tell us more. Yeah, I mean it it allowed me to free my mind space up from things that were taking a lot of mind space away from me. Like I mentioned losing sleep over you know, waking up early and not being able to go back to sleep cuz I'm just waiting for that kind of stuff that it's shifting that responsibility to someone and then helping them with the process to improve that allowed me to free up my mind space for development purposes. Things that can develop our business versus reactionary um things that I was going to have to do, you know, on a daily basis or something like that. You know, like develop then once that was in place, we could work together to develop a process on how we were going to keep people um you know, in a in a in a holding pattern on whether they wanted to be full-time or part-time or kind of keep people in the wind our continuing hiring process um just like we do our sales process so that we had multiple people coming in the door at all times. We're constantly interviewing people um so that we do have a pipeline of people if uh our business fluctuates and we get a really high demand and we need some guys. Well, we've had some really good interviews um that we can pull from. If we don't end up needing them, then we you know, we say, "Hey, we just don't need you right now, but we'll call you back." So, you know, it allowed me and I think that's a a really great um dichotomy like a separation there of where before I was reacting, "Oh my gosh, is nobody is someone going to show up whereas then now I'm just thinking more about what else can I do to improve this process so that this doesn't happen to my operations manager versus uh woe is me, you know, what's going to happen on this day. Well, first of all, congratulations on making that step. What what a transformative um improvement to the business. But, I also I'll just use the opportunity to call out like when people evaluating what business to buy, we already talked about size and so often including you know, I contribute I contribute to this. It's what size of business do you buy? And and really maybe the better question is um does the business have a man a a if if it's going to be kind of a trades kind of blue-collar business, is there somebody in there who's going to run the operations? So, call it a GM or depending on the size of the business, call it two GMs or however many. Just really understand um really understand, are you going to be able to work on the business or in the business? Uh and and that and and that can't that that won't be that isn't necessarily revealed just by SDE because, you know, if you have a million-dollar SDE business, maybe that business is so profitable because the owner's doing everything and the owner's very in the business. So, you're going to buy that business and have to be very in the business versus a $500,000 SDE business, maybe it's less profitable because there's a nice GM or two in there and you can get in there and not be just pulling your hair out and drowning from day one. So, really the that is something that people should clarify in their minds is is do they not want to be in the business? Maybe some people will, but do they not want to do they just want to be working on or doing strategic and have somebody who is the buffer, who is keeping the trains running on time or not? That seems like that should be a criteria everybody gets clear with for their in their own search. 100% and I I highly recommend, you know, do your interviews with the with the seller. You know, sit down with them multiple times throughout the due diligence process and and get a sense of that. But then also interview some people that aren't in the process with you. You know, that maybe own some business. Call around. You know, it's worth you know, follow some Facebook groups that are from that particular industry, you mean? Yeah. You know, in the industry you're seeking. Go, you know, go follow some Facebook groups that that talk about the woes of that industry or go, you know, reach out to people like that because now I I do that more and I, you know, I I really find that it gives me more insight into what I'm going to expect when I go in versus this, you know, it was a little bit of a surprise, but again, you live, you learn, you get surprised, you work hard, you grow personally and, you know, business is and then you and you keep on the path that you're trying to do. You're we're going to build a portfolio. It just just a little the in my for my investment philosophy and what I was trying to do, this one just didn't um it wasn't the smoothest way to start that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we're going to hear what the future hold where you are now what the future holds as we as we close out the interview Brett, but before we get to that from the pre-call another one of the stories. This is less about just kind of being in the business that stuff that we've really already hit on, but and it's more about kind of a structural aspect of the business, which is where the you're getting business from where demand is coming from. So in the moving business, you're getting leads. People are wanting a an estimate consumers who are moving house want an estimate and you're giving them an estimate and hopefully closing them as a as a customer. That's what it looks like in the moving business and what happened with respect to that when you got in it. Yeah, um it so an important again important aspect of interviewing your sellers and asking great questions and kind of going through there, but going just going through and and really kind of digging into the details that you want to know or you you'll need to know and and I did a lot of this. You can't you always look back and say you should have done more, but one thing that you know, I I say I missed it or it just didn't come up or it maybe it wasn't something that I could have suspected could have been the case, but the sellers significant other who worked in the business significantly more than they you know, allowed for as we were talking about it was also very in involved in the business and then you know, had some skill set that it helped them do this business with a less overhead cost. Um so just particularly um her family owned the software company that they used to uh the CRM system that they used in order to transact business. So they got access to that for free. They didn't have to pay any software cost or anything like that in order to operate it. Well, you know, I get in there and it's like month one and we're sitting next to each other and they're teaching me how to use this software and everything else and you know, at that point I find out that oh, well, that's you know, my family's software company and I'm you know, uh I I know how to do it very well. I know all the developers. I know everybody there um and you know, hopefully they'll give you you know, I think they'll give you like a a month or two free if if you want it. And I'm like uh What do you What do you mean? Like this is not something that's just you purchase or like a hardware type thing that you're you download once. Oh, no, a monthly subscription and then they also um are one of the top lead providers in the space. So they um they have sales funnels and websites that funnel leads and then they can sell them to the individuals who um who buy their software and it's just like a back end of that software where they sell leads in there. Um it you know, helps people if they're Say I've got a move that's going from here to to Colorado, but I don't have anything going from Colorado back to here. I can go in there and I can search for stuff that's going back that direction, try to buy it from them and sell it. And they would use that um to their advantage. And they also, you know, probably got they they got some freebies for sure uh from the family um kicked towards them. So all of a sudden I get in there and it's like, well, wait a second. I'm going to have to pay a lot for this software for this proprietary software in order to just operate the business the same way that you guys were doing before, you know, like what what gives? And um then on the other side it was like, well, I'm also not going to get any lead flow that you guys were getting from that um that would have come naturally. Um so it it was a for better for worse, we ended up with a in my opinion better software that provides a better customer experience because I just I I I didn't even really like the one that they were using. Yeah. Yeah. Um so you did you lose um a a lot of lead volume from that or was not a lot of not a lot of leads were coming from that really? Um it was it's hard to say because I I you you couldn't see a lot of past history from it. Um but, you know, from some of the things that I just kind of discovered as we were going through it, there was some coming from there. Um but there Okay. you know, and then also they had been in the moving business together for decades um in a in a variety of capacities. He had worked at other moving companies in Atlanta and she had worked in um that space obviously with their parents for a while. So they just naturally had some um you know, some organic traffic that came because the people just knowing them. Um and that pretty much went away after the sale because there we we just didn't communicate anymore. So things with the sellers went bad got bad. I I won't say that they went bad, but I I have I made a decision to just basically kind of, you know, cut things off there because as we dug into the business we found more and more things that were just like, hey, like this is just, you know, you should have told us about this or hey, this is something that you were doing that you know, really wasn't right for your customers. Um or they left things behind that weren't paid. Um which, you know, were could have you know, we're small sometimes, we're a little larger sometimes, but, you know, it just um it it it were things that were it was things that were hard to find that we, you know, when we were going out to pursue better vendor relationships, we were finding because oh, whoops, they had an account with us 5 years ago. Um that that they didn't end up paying off. Um so, it was just just little things um overall, but a lot of little things add up in a small business. All right, Brett. Uh let's start uh bringing it to a close. Tell us where you are today in terms of revenue, in of employees, whatever benchmark. Yeah, so uh when we took the business over in March of 2022, they were doing about dollars a year in revenue. Um and like I told you before, SDE on a trailing average three was between 225, 250. Um somewhere in that range. Um our first three quarters of a year, we did 750. Um and then in the next year, 2023, we did 1.1 million um and are on pace this year to hopefully crest 1.4 million um in revenue. Um that will definitely contribute to our bottom line, and in order to achieve some of those goals that we've had, we've also had some CapEx. So, we have had to spend some money in order to grow um to get to that size, and it it's a really tough time to grow. Um if you are hiding under a rock and unaware, uh most people are not transitioning in their homes right now. You know, interest rates were very low, and there was a there was a lot of transactional volume in the real estate marketplace just a couple years ago. Um most recently in this past year, uh we're at 15-year lows for transactions in the real estate marketplace. So, that means less people are moving, obviously. Um so, the the customer has changed on us. Like so is the market. You know, it um less volume, people are more price sensitive. Um you know, and then on the other end of it, expenses have gone up. Insurance is, you know, continues to go up on a yearly basis. Fuel costs, truck costs went through the roof. Um so, and labor costs as well, because, you know, everybody's feeling the pinch of things being more expensive. Um so, growing during this time has been an increasingly challenging exercise in discipline and where we're putting those our advertising dollars and those growth dollars to work. Um because CAC, our customer acquisition cost, is one of the most important things to scale in our business. You know, we we have to be very measurable there based off of the average size of our moves and um while we still do still have a lot of those contracts that they had, we have a lot of that organic business. During this time, especially, there is a lot of competition. There's a lot of moving companies, you know, just click on Google and type in moving companies and you'll get more choices than you can even um you know, you can even call there. But, you know, that that is where at least in my mind, and maybe I tricked myself to believe this, the people that work hard for their customers, that do a great job for their customers, they they take market share during times like this. They we we are growing when the market is when the transactional volume market on our, you know, on the biggest customers that we get, big homes, is down 40%. We're up 100% in that two in that two-year time span. It's amazing. And that that comes from, again, discipline and spending a little bit of money that they they weren't spending before, for sure. Um but then also doing a great job for people. You know, there were some contracts that they had that were just teetering on the edge um because they had used um less than ideal um people to to go service those contracts at time. We've recovered those. We've We've grown more with that customer. We've gained more customers that they've recommended us to now. And you know, and and gone out and sought our own. You know, and and say and then been able to use some of those people that were barely hanging on when we first walked in. We've been able to use them now as references for other larger companies in that same realm. So, the the it that hyperfocus on quality and you know, getting out there, getting a five-star review, giving them an exceptional experience and a repeatable experience, and having a process and how you do it is is really the difference maker on an individual especially in a service business that is in your customer's face and in their home. I'm I'm sure your lawn care folks are are equally as focused on that. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Brett, I got to congratulate you. That's that's phenomenal progress. Industries is at a 15-year low, you said? Yeah, I mean 2018, 2019. doubled in that environment. Yeah. And that well, so congratulations on that. And then I mean a lot of what I heard you just say sounds like that you've transformed the culture. Basically, you've brought in better people or and or trained people better. Um essentially. And and just instilled kind of cultural value of quality that maybe didn't exist before. Can you say anything more about that cuz it sounds like the the soul of the place is is very different. And how how have you done that in two years? Yeah, I mean people People care when you care, right? And so when they when I'm in there and I'm, you know, in there meeting with the guys and I'm I'm still very active and, you know, talk to all of our employees and I'm I'm around there always. And just constantly talking about doing a great job for people. Oh, man, you're going to go get that five-star review. Are rewarding employees for getting those type of things and creating a a compensation structure that rewards them for the goals that you have as a business owner and that you have for your business. Um, it continuing to preach that stuff. You know, and and like and just in in like you said, getting people in there that buy into that, um, can create that culture. It is a constant battle. You're there's you're never going to win it and be able to walk away and say, "Oh, yep, there it is. It's good to go." You know, there's there is nobody that will do what you will do in your own individual business, um, and care as much as you will care. Um, I I don't care how much you pay them. Um, they but what what you can instill in those people, like now I don't have to go in there every single day in order for that culture to remain. But I I do need to go and and maintenance that that we've created and and still continue to improve on it and find out what is and isn't working and and create processes to try to tackle that and make that better not only for our customers, but for the guys that are working for us. I mean, if you if you're going into business or in any type of business and you don't think you're in a dual sales role, you're selling in and out, right? You're you're you're selling to the people that are going there to work for you and you're selling to the people that are going to be your customer as well. Um, it's just whether you think about it that way or not. Great great point, Brett. Um, Jerome I recall uh made a similar point about a home care business. And he a home care business is essentially a staffing business. You know, you're you've got the folks who need the care and then you've got the caregivers going into their homes. But caregivers are usually 1099 anyway. They come and go, a lot of turnover. And he said things finally clicked for him when he realized that he needed to treat his home his home his caregivers uh like his customers as well. He had two groups of customers. The obvious customer, the the the person receiving the care, and then in fact also the people delivering the care that he was paying were also his customer. He had to do everything he could to keep them excited, keep them happy. So, um, great great point. So, let's just let's just kind of reflect on where you are. So, you you you are still working on the business, clearly. You're in there once, twice, three times a week. Uh, but you also have enough capacity now that you're looking at doing another acquisition that you have under LOI. Is this acquisition a moving business? It's not a moving business. Um, it is very much involved with people and trucks though. Okay. it's a transportation business. Not going to go into a ton of detail because it is just under LOI and, um, you know, these deals don't are not done until there's ink on that purchase agreement and a check's in somebody's account. And that working capital's in your account and you're sitting in that chair next to the owner and he's saying, "Where do you want to start?" Right. it's not done until it's done. Uh, but this business is in a, you know, in a a similar type of industry. They're they're, you know, transporting stuff from one place to another. Um, when you when you get down to the root basis of what my business is, it's people and trucks. Right? And so, you know, it similar businesses, you know, it kind of kind of can run in a similar vein. So, this business is has some synergy, um, but it is not a moving business, um, in people's homes. Um, we it is significantly larger. So, I'll can kind of run through, you know, some of those numbers. It's, um, Please. purchase price around 1.8 million. Um, the business is doing about $650,000 in SDE on a yearly basis. Um, as part of our purchase price, we'll receive about $200,000 in accounts receivable. We'll just go ahead and buy that, so we're not having to, you know, try to write checks afterwards for who receives what. Um make the transaction a little simpler. And um it's it's just a it's every it's it's an acquirer's dream, you know, it used to be a partnership. Um one of the owners passed away. The the current owner's just looking to retire. He's been in this business for 25 years. It's been in our marketplace here in Atlanta for 30. Um it's just a very good well-established business and they, you know, it's clean. They have nice clean books. They don't, you know, dilute it because they were a partnership. They don't dilute it with a bunch of spending where you're trying to guess how much the previous owner spent um on his puppy inside the, you know, main building maintenance category on his P&L. You're you actually, you know, can get a clear look into it. Um and like I said, there could be some synergy between our businesses that passes revenue naturally from one to the other. Um you know, I'm I'm I'm hoping that's you 10%, but we'll see. You know, I'm I'm I want the business to stand up on its own without having to have a synergy to for for each to work really well. And this is a really great target because of some of those things that I told you about the ownership and the cleanliness of their books. Um they're very organized, which helps makes this due diligence and financing process um much easier. We're not having to chase them down for documents. Um as you well know and some of your people have talked about, this process is a hurry up and wait. There's a some things will happen a lot all at once and then you're going to wait 2 weeks, 3 weeks and not hear anything at all. Um so as we dig through everything um and and kind of discover more, we'll continue to piece together what the actual purchase is going to look like. Um but we are going to take a lot of things from the previous transaction and use them as we decide on how to make this one. Um this one as we've designed it it it could be a it could be you know a very favorable deal for for our portfolio. Um and it um the way that we've designed the transaction structure could actually allow us to not have to put any money down in order to acquire it. Um so happy to talk about that if it happens. Yeah. is it in a different episode? Um but um you know I there are a lot of different ways you can structure these deals as an acquirer especially being a self-funded searcher. Um you know to uh to go bigger without necessarily having to have a huge amount of capital. And and Brett do you feel that your access of this deal and and maybe be getting it at particularly favorable terms is because you're already in the game or do you think that you could have is is this a one example of being in the game more doors open or might have you have might you have had access to this acquisition acquisition number two as a searcher as somebody who wasn't yet in the game? Uh if you're if you're watching on video you see me nodding heavily. Um the resume makes all the difference in the world when you're talking to these lenders. Um they they like to see that you've been successful in doing that. So to the point that maybe I say the first one was a little too small for the goal maybe it actually wasn't. Maybe it led us to be able to get this larger one um with better terms because we did take that plunge initially. Um it a lot of that is going to come down to the terms that you get. It's not necessarily the accessibility. If you've got the capital you know and you can fall within their guidelines that they're looking for and the deal makes sense servicing the debt they'll they'll they'll entertain the deal with somebody that necessarily hasn't acquired a business right away. Um but you will absolutely get better terms with a better resume and improve that you've done it. In fact, we may we'll probably end up combining both loans with a much more advantageous term than we ended up having on the first one, which will benefit both businesses if we do get the structure we're looking for on this one. Mhm. Okay, well, to be continued sounds exciting and it sounds Brett like you know, I'm not trying to um be too rosy about your experience, but as bad as it was, you know, in 2 years time you stabilize things, you've doubled the business in a really inhospitable environment. You've put in managers so that you're not to create a buffer between yourself and the the day-to-day and you might be be taking down a business that's a lot bigger. You're very off to the races and that's in 2 years. That's not a very long time. So, it's one of these where I you know, I struggle with my the kind of the body of of all of my interviews and the bloody knife fight reputation that being a small business owner is because even you know, even folks with hard stories and really hard transitions like you sometimes, you know, still get through it in a relatively short amount of time and then appear to be crushing it. So, you know, I I don't know if what there is to take away from that. Every everybody's story is different. Every journey is unique. Um and I don't want people out there who are really struggling to think that they're doing something wrong because they haven't figured it out in 2 years. Uh but um it is striking that the story which kind of had a negative feel actually for 2 years you're stable, you're growing, you're really doing great in your existing business and you're looking at now buying a second much bigger one. So, how do you interpret it? Let me put it back to you. How do you interpret your story? I'll comment on that. Um you did mention Christian earlier in this in this interview and um you know I was introduced to Christian because of this. You know, one of my friends was like, "Hey, you need to meet him. He's kind of going through the same thing." And I And the the one thing I'll say about meeting him and then the value that that's added in the um context of what you're asking is one of the things he said to me and I'm sure he's not the inventor of it um but for me he was in the moment that he said it uh was that you'll you'll heavily overestimate what you can do in 1 year and underestimate what you can do in five. Um and and to your point that. I love that saying expression. Yeah. To your point, when you say that it's only been 2 years, I like I'm almost taken aback. I'm almost like, "Wow, like it's only been 2 years?" Because you know 2 years or a little less in a bloody knife fight, you know, can feel like 10 years. That's true. And a rosy picture uh where where everything, you know, goes nice and smooth, but um the I do I I take that and I I I reflect on that a lot because because part of the story that I just told is that I don't feel like I I felt like I was held back from accelerating as much as I wanted to in that time. Um but then I had I do sit back and I reflect and I'm like, "Okay, like you know in the grand scheme of things, 2 years is uh is a relatively short amount of time. Um but we've got big goals over here. So, you know, um this is this is a definitely a step in the right you know, step up there. Um it is a step up in complication of the deal. And And all of this I think will continue to help grow us as we um continue to acquire. I don't see this one that we're working on right now being the last one. Um I I I think we could have a really um a great breadth of companies in our portfolio. I would like to stay here in Atlanta probably, you know, maybe till I get a little older and shoot down to Florida. But, you know, the you know, our goal is to to have some really high-quality companies here in the town that I grew up in. And, you know, there's not a lot of people that are native Atlantans anymore like me and my wife. And, it's a it's a pride thing. I I uh makes me a little emotional, but it it it's a pride thing because I watched my dad do this growing up. I watched him go through these same struggles and he passed about 4 years ago, but I think every day how much he would laugh at me calling and telling him a story about Uber or the nameless stories that I have on a on a daily weekly basis of crazy things that happen you know, when when you combine a bunch of different people you know, to do this type of work in in a stressful environment. It's stressful moving. So, you're you know, you're combining a lot of personalities and into a mishmash there during that time. And, I think often, you know, about his struggles and the things that I probably didn't even know about. But, then also just, you know, being able to like tell him these silly stories and what his reaction would be having you know, having having done that grind having having been through that and me not having the same perspective while he was going through all that stuff when I was young too young to know. Well, Brett, I think we um you know, our uh our parents suffer. Jesus. Yeah. Yeah. And when you become a parent, it it hits even harder. Yeah, our parents suffer and we don't realize it as kids. And you know, sometimes by the time we're experiencing it, it's too late to camaraderie, have that camaraderie with them. You right. on all of their experiences. Wow. Anyway, we'll see we'll see if that stays in. Yeah. Hey man, well you're I mean this is real. At the end of the day what we're talking about and and feeling and and all of this is it's the real life part of acquiring businesses. You know, we can talk SDE, we can talk multiples, debt service coverage, what crazy terms you can get with different lenders and all that kind of stuff, but at the basis of it, every single person that's out here doing this on your podcast, on other people's on, you know, in the world that they don't even know that your podcast exists, the world I was in before, they've got a family, they've got an emotional feelings about what they're doing and and that's the part that that's why I'm sitting here with you on this, to be honest, because I I do want other people to have what I had with Christian and what I'm now gaining with you and with other people that I'm developing this camaraderie with on the struggle, on how hard it is, because it's a whole lot harder when you're alone. Right? And it's lonely at the top. I mean, that you know, you are the owner, you are the top, it's lonely there. And no matter how many people you have working under you, but you there are people out there like me that you can reach out to that love talking about this stuff or that can help you just pull your head out of your whatever, you know, when when you're just having a moment and and I've had people that served that for me. So, I just I feel um grateful and humbled and motivated to you know, be that and share that and share my story for what it is now and then later continue to share the story for how it develops. Um I think a lot about how this will sound 5 years from now, 10 years from now and what I'll even think of what we've talked about today. Well, Brett, how how do you Do you have a way of people want to reach out that you want them to? Yes. Are you on LinkedIn? Are you on LinkedIn. Email or what? Yes, I'm on LinkedIn and I'm on search funder as well. Um a profile on there, so that's that's searchable. Um you can contact me through either um That's preferable cuz that's it's super easy to message through there and it's um you know, I as I get inbound constantly. Um you know, from a variety of different directions. I miss most calls because I'm on the other line with someone else. Okay. Okay. All right. So, definitely reach out through LinkedIn um and then we'll we can set stuff up, you know, would love to you know, hang out or you know, have some um in-person camaraderie with local people here in Atlanta um or if it's over the phone if you're not here in Atlanta. That's just as fine as well. Um but Well, great great offer, Brett. Um everybody take Brett up on that. And thank you very much, sir, for coming on and sharing your story and being as always transparent, vulnerable. Uh You you you got me there at the end. Really a beautiful um beautiful story here. So, thank you, sir. We we so appreciate it. Thank you for having me on and thanks for doing this. You know, I know you put a lot of work into um doing this for our I say our community, but yeah, our community. Um the people who who about this and have chosen this as their life path and calling. Well, I appreciate that, Brent. All right, sir. Until we hear about the acquisition number two. All right. I hope you enjoy that interview. Make sure you subscribe to the Acquiring Minds channel below. We are now publishing twice a week. So, tons of new interviews and stories to come. Stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business.