I caught you. Don't record robberies, prevent them. And Atlas Renewable Energy present PM Economic Agenda. Welcome to this special edition of Economic Agenda Debate, of course with an eye toward the second round of the presidential election on December 14th. Four years ago we had this same opportunity, and for that reason we are repeating the exercise so that you can make the best possible decision between José Antonio Cast and Janette Jara. One of these two will be our next president from March 11th. We will have questions from individuals, questions from economists, from personal associations, also cross-questions, and they will also gather ideas. that were raised by other candidates who fell by the wayside. That's what this special Economic Agenda Debate is all about. I'll start by introducing the people who are with us. I'm starting with the spokesperson for Janet Jara's campaign, Luis Eduardo Escobar. Thank you so much for being with us. A pleasure. Thank you for the invitation. And I also invite Tomás Boer, economic spokesperson for José Antonio Cas, to speak. Welcome, Tomás. Thank you very much, Nicolás, for the invitation. It's a pleasure to be here. I also greet Luis Eduardo. Likewise, the only rule we have is that both spokespeople will be able to comment on all questions and answers. There will be a one-minute timer; it will be a very fast-paced debate, and we will begin immediately with the most important thing: the doubts and questions from the people of our country. Both will answer and we move on to reviewing the first question from a person directly on the front of the coin. It is effective on the side of the CAS candidate, who will eliminate the years of service and implement this system where the money comes from the worker or from the worker, employer, state. And on the side of candidate Jara, they are going to extend the years of service or improve the system. Tomás Bunster responds, one minute. Well, there are many things that have been said during this campaign, the election period, and the debates that are not effective. It has been said that the PGU will be eliminated, that is not true. It has been said that the school feeding program will be eliminated, that is not true. It has been said that social spending will be touched, that is not true either. And regarding compensation for years of service, that is not true either. The program includes a new mechanism; it doesn't destroy the previous one, that remains the same. Uh, it seeks to give greater security to contracts and improve the relationship between the worker and the employer. And the most important thing is to strengthen formal employment, because due to the policies promoted by the last government in recent years, we are in a crisis where a good part of formal employment has been destroyed, and we are here to defend that. The main features of this new mechanism are that it involves a new contribution, a contribution charged to the employee, a new contribution that seeks to generate savings in a savings account , to later finance compensation, but it does not exclude the previous mechanism that already exists. I'm finished, it's Luis Eduardo Escobar's turn. Well, thank you very much. We do not propose making any changes to the compensation for years of service. We are proposing to keep it as it is . We believe it is part of a much broader discussion and potential modifications to the system. Well, there are many things that could be considered, but that will be the product of a dialogue that we propose should be tripartite conversations. between employers, unions, representatives of civil society and the government to discuss the possibilities for change and whether there is a possibility of agreement to move forward. What did you think of the idea in this project that there would be no limit on the number of years of compensation? Well, that existed in the past and we changed it by mutual agreement, let's say, there is a law that reduced it to 11 years, which is what currently applies, except in the case of domestic workers, where there is a system similar to the one Tomás just proposed. What we don't understand is how the two systems they are proposing are going to be compatible. Well, one issue that has certainly been part of the economic debate in this presidential race is tax cuts. That's what the next question is about. It proposes to reduce the size of the state. Now, he also proposes to improve health, education, and security. But the question is, how would you finance this? And at the same time, how would I do it without raising taxes on people and without taking away social benefits from the middle or working class? Luis Eduardo Escobar begins by responding. Well, we have not proposed a reduction in public spending. Furthermore, we have argued that taxes on large companies cannot be reduced either, as our adversaries propose. Well, precisely because we want to safeguard social spending levels , rationalize spending in such a way as to give it more power, which allows us, in our opinion, to improve health systems and strengthen employment systems, in order to retrain people for the challenges that are coming, which are enormous, especially due to the expansion of the digital economy and the use of artificial intelligence. And there we have quite large deficits for which more resources are needed. He maintains what the campaign has said , which is that there is no cut, but also no tax increase for either companies or individuals. Exactly. We haven't changed our minds about that. Very good. It is Tomás Wunster's turn to comment on what the person was asking, which was more directed towards the candidacy of José Antonio Casta. Nicolás, first of all, to point out to the people who are listening and watching us, our proposal seeks precisely to give sustainability to social benefits and sustainability in the medium term to the management of public finances. We have seen a tremendously irresponsible administration in the last 4 years . Uh, in the first year, President Bich's government exceeded the budget law by 7%. Then the most deficit-ridden fiscal targets since the fiscal rule was established were set, and they have been missed three times. We are already seeing today with the fiscal figures published for the end of October that we are at a deficit of 2.7 points of GDP and the truth is that it has to be corrected because otherwise there will not be resources to distribute and we will not be able to finance social benefits such as the PGU, such as graduation in higher education, there will not be money, let's say. After the meeting of economists like you from José Antonio Cas's team with those from Evely Matei's team and others, it was said that the $6 billion cut could be more gradual. That's right. First, there was a cross-party agreement on the need to converge towards fiscal balance and whether, after discussing the more technical details, there might be a benefit in doing so with greater flexibility over a longer period, but always within the administration's term . Thank you so much. Let's move on to the next question from the people. To what extent will you support Chilean SMEs? The question is very specific, Tomás Booster answers first. SMEs will benefit fully from José Antonio Castro's entire program. First, because there will be an unrestricted fight against informal commerce. Well, public order and security will be restored in the city, and all civic and economic activity will be able to develop much better. And in strictly economic matters, let's say, through the three pillars of our program. First, regulatory facilitation that will reduce the burden on everyone who innovates and undertakes ventures, particularly SMEs, and will make it much easier for them to obtain all their permits. In this case, not just SMEs, but the entire economy will experience a lower tax burden and a more organized state with public finances, creating a much better overall environment for economic activity. You have 20 seconds left. Okay, there we are. There's Luard Escobar. Well, the central problem with CAS's proposal is precisely that they are lowering taxes for large companies and not touching SMEs. Consequently, the benefit, the benefits that eventually fall to SMEs, has more to do with politics, the old politics of the Chilean right, which is trickle-down and trickle-down. And what we have seen over time is that there is neither a trickle nor a trickle. Income distribution remains just as bad. The concentration of production, wealth, etc., remains the same as it has been for many years. Consequently, there is no policy for SMEs. What we are proposing is to strengthen SMEs in several ways, giving them better access to credit, making their lives easier in terms of permits, supporting them technologically, helping them to retrain, and also supporting them so that they can incorporate new technologies into their production processes. Any concrete measures? Well, precisely the incorporation of direct technological support programs to SMEs in the same way that it is done today, for example, in agriculture. Okay, let's move on to the last question on the street. What will happen to women's pensions? For women who are over 40 or over 50 and find it difficult to find work, what measures will she take so that we can continue working and retire with a better pension? That couple was very enthusiastic about asking, so we repeated it. Now Luis Eduardo Escobar begins. Well, let's see, my answer to the lady is the one Janet Jara gave. She has been the main champion of improving pensions for women, and what was done in terms of tax reform, which the Frente candidacy opposed, is precisely all the mechanisms that had to do with strengthening pensions, especially for women, because they have gaps and are also calculated based on a much higher survival age. So that also means discounts on their pensions. That's why this loan, which has also been proposed by the CAS candidacy, is so important; it has to do with how the improvement of pensions is financed today, and not just pensions in 40 years' time when people retire. So, ma'am, I can tell you that if we come to be in the presidency of the Republic, we will take care of your benefit. 5 seconds left. No, it's fine. Okay. The José Antonio Cas command has been mentioned several times . Tomás Gunser, the answer to the person. That's how it is. My response to all those illusions is that we should first look at the empirical evidence and say that under Janet Jara's last administration as Minister of Labor, the female unemployment rate was at its highest levels in history, and we have had a general unemployment rate that exceeds 8% for more than 3 years. So, one can say many things, make references, but those are the figures, let's say. Eh, even Luis Eduardo himself described them as disastrous a few months ago . And regarding women's employment, for us it is essential to defend women's employment, young people's employment , and the employment of all those who want to work. And for that reason, our program has a measure incorporated into the tax reform that seeks precisely to protect formal employment that is at risk of falling into informality, and women are those who are most at risk, and our program takes care of that. And despite what is being said about not having a General Urban Development Plan (PGU), that pensions will not rise because of this proposed loan, that is not true. The PGU remains, the pension increases for women resulting from the prison reform remain, and the life expectancy compensation also remains. The only thing we are proposing is to do it with financing, not with a forced contribution from state workers, but directly with public resources. We will delve deeper into the loan process later. We thank the people who voluntarily asked questions for this debate. Now we'll move on to some questions that are directed to each of you. It's done by economists, your colleagues. The first person to ask gets to answer; these are directed questions, but obviously the other person will have the opportunity to comment on the person's response. Do we agree? Very good. The first to ask a question is the economist Patricio Rojas, and he does so to Janet Jará's command. We have been observing a labor market for quite some time now. One of the least dynamic sectors is construction, an effect that has manifested itself not only in virtually zero investment in construction in recent years, but also in very low job creation in the sector. What are you considering to revitalize construction in the short term? Are they available to assess a temporary reduction in construction costs? They are also considering the possibility that public housing can be built through industrial construction in order to accelerate construction of this type of housing and thus reduce the deficit. Luis Eduardo, please. There are a lot of questions in my colleague's questions, but let's see, in terms of social housing construction, we are proposing to build an additional 260,000 homes over a period of 4 years. We are also proposing to improve the quality of older social housing, which in some cases has serious problems, and to improve an additional 140,000 homes. Furthermore, we are proposing to finish, hopefully before this winter, the reconstruction of homes in Viña del Mar. Regarding the use of industrial mechanisms for social housing, I personally, frankly, don't understand how we have taken so long to incorporate industrial mechanisms for the construction—not only of social housing, but of housing and buildings in general. Modern technologies, both in concrete construction and industrialized wood construction, demonstrate that it is cheaper, faster, generates more employment, and consequently provides better access for the population. Thank you very much, Luis Eduardo. What does Tomás Suera think of that answer? I believe that first, if we want to revive the construction sector, which is not only failing to generate employment— 200,000 jobs in the construction sector have been lost— we have to eliminate the over-regulation that has been progressively imposed on this sector in recent years, which has increased housing prices and hindered construction. And this government has eliminated some tax measures that have also continued to increase the price of housing and have made it so that people can no longer buy. And I wish that from the candidacy, instead of waiting until they took office to rebuild the vineyard houses, they had done it during this government, but it hasn't been possible, let's say. Will they maintain or replicate the dividend subsidy that was implemented a few months ago? The mortgage rate subsidy is a tool that has yielded considerable results; it has allowed us to reactivate housing sales somewhat , in a certain segment, and we are evaluating whether to continue with it or expand some other measures to give a greater boost to the construction sector. You, I mean, without intending to defend the current government of which I am not a part, what Tomás has just done is contradict himself. In other words, this government has taken a series of measures that have indeed favored construction, such as the discount on the interest rate. And we are talking about having taken a measure from candidate Matei regarding the zero mortgage and we are also proposing to maintain and strengthen the interest rate subsidy program with a cap of 3.5 UF+ 3.5%. Okay , don't get ahead of yourself because we're going to get to that. Luis Eduardo Escobar is looking ahead. Now ask about the candidacy of José Antonio Cast, the chief economist of the BCI, Sergio Leman. We have been seeing for a long time an extremely weakened labor market with an unemployment rate that is around 8.5%. Very low job creation month after month and that naturally has an effect on the dynamism of the economy, particularly on consumption, which the labor market recognizes as the main factor to give it some impetus. My question, then, is what measures are you considering to introduce greater flexibility into the labor market? This would allow for greater dynamism and thus unemployment rates much more similar to what we saw a few years ago, which would naturally generate positive effects on the dynamics of development. Thomas Boer. Well, what economist Leman points out is true. Well, during this administration, job creation has shown very, very precarious figures, let's say. In fact, there was a period when only 140 jobs were created in a single year, and basically today there are almost 900,000 people who want to work but cannot access a job. All of these people will benefit from a robust program that aims to reactivate economic growth, driven first by restoring security and public order, but also by reducing the regulatory burden, lowering the tax burden, and reorganizing public finances so that economic activity can be revitalized and generate all that employment capacity. And as a specific measure, we are very concerned about the deterioration of formal employment that has been seen in recent years, a product of a very stagnant economy, but with an increase in labor costs , particularly in the lower income brackets, which has generated a destruction of formal employment and we propose, as I mentioned a while ago, a tax credit to protect that employment. Thank you very much, Tomás Munster. Luis Eduardo, what do you think of the proposed measures? More than the proposed measure itself, what really surprises me is Tomás's ability to say things that are not true. During this administration, 650,000 jobs have been created. Of those 650,000 jobs, roughly 80% are formal jobs. Consequently, I don't know what country he's talking about. Uh, what we have said is that we are going to strengthen economic growth. Economic growth is the main source of job creation. We are going to streamline and strengthen retraining mechanisms so that people can access better jobs, and we are going to support SMEs especially so that they can hire people with formal contracts. Consequently, what we are doing is in line with international recommendations on this matter. I wanted to say something, Tomás. Yes, I will be quoting Luis Eduardo Escobar in August of this year at a seminar organized by the Catholic University and Forbis Mazards. The unemployment figure is a disaster. Well, look, that's out of context, totally out of context, because what happened in August, and where I made that comment, and I acknowledge that I did indeed make that comment, that comment referred to the specific figure for the month of August. If one takes the 4 years of this government that they accuse of having destroyed jobs, made jobs precarious, and that there is no formal employment, it turns out that the figures from the INE, which is the official institution on this matter in Chile, say that up to the month of October 650,000 new jobs have been created, of which 80% are formal. So, I don't know what you're talking about. Uh, I'm referring to the studies that the Central Bank has published in its monetary policy reports. There are some government authorities or even some economists who may disagree, but we are also referring to those indications from the Central Bank. The Central Bank never said that no jobs had been created. The Central Bank said that fewer jobs had been created than could have been created, but it did not say that no jobs had been created at all. The Central Bank was very critical of the impact it had had on formal employment in the low-income brackets, particularly between one minimum wage and 1.3 minimum wages, creating an accumulated job destruction in that segment of companies of up to 8%. He never talks about it; it's in the monetary policy report of December 2024, and there are three methodologies that support it. Very well, welcome to the debate here on Economic Agenda. Now the unions in our country are asking questions. To increase investment and raise the competitiveness of our country, from the CPC we have raised the need to move towards a reduction of taxes for companies, at least converging towards the average of the OPDE. The CAS candidate proposes a reduction of the corporate tax rate starting from a decrease to 23% with the possibility of an additional reduction associated with the hiring of workers at risk of informality. In this context, we are interested in learning the details of this mechanism and what you consider to be the corporate tax rate that adequately balances the objectives of encouraging investment, promoting formal employment, and at the same time safeguarding fiscal balances. Question addressed to José Antonio Cast.'s command. Well, first, 10 or 11 years ago, in 2014, Chile ranked 5th out of 38 in the ranking of tax competitiveness at the company level. After the tax reform of President Bachelet's government, her second term, we have fallen to 36th out of 38 in the last year. We believe that this does not make Chile an attractive destination for investment, and it is a basic part of corporate finance that you evaluate projects, deduct the tax rate, and some projects become less profitable, and some are not carried out, and we want to recover from that. That is why in the program we propose a reduction of the transitional rate to the level of 23% with, as Susana Jiménez pointed out, this creation of credit to bolster formal employment. 23%, how long does it take to reach that level? The objective, as we have it set now, but obviously this is subject to different conversations and improvements that we can make, is towards the last year of the government period. Transitional, that is, it doesn't stay there, it doesn't stay there, but there is a transition from the current 27 to the first year up to the 23. No, it's not transitional, it's a transition towards the 23. It's much clearer now. Luis Eduardo, please comment on the measurements. Look, there is no empirical evidence that lowering the tax rate for large companies, which in Chile represent 3% of businesses, leads to a higher investment rate. What Ms. Jiménez is doing is defending the interests of large Chilean business owners, because SMEs—and by SMEs we mean companies that are quite large, that sell up to $1,000,000 annually—are subject to a tax rate of 12.5% ​​per year. And what she is trying to compare is with the OECD, where the average tax rate is 24%, effectively the Chilean rate is 27%. But what he doesn't say, and what my adversary here also overlooks, is that it doesn't have a semi-integrated system like the Chilean one, in which the taxes paid by companies are deducted by individuals or other companies that own them in the chain. Consequently, when they talk about this magic wand that would be lowering taxes and doing a favor for friends. Well, Luisardo Escobar had already said that he wasn't going to propose a tax change for Janet Jara's candidacy, so that point was already clear. There is another question, and it is directed at Janet Jara's candidacy. The country faces tremendous productivity challenges, particularly in labor productivity. One way to successfully address these issues is by giving unions greater flexibility and freedom in their collective bargaining with their respective employers. Would Janette Jara's candidacy be willing to incorporate into its reforms one that would give unions more flexibility and freedom to negotiate matters with their employers? That would definitely help improve the country's productivity and the mining sector in particular. The president of the Mining Council asked and Luis Eduardo Escobar answered. Well, we believe that labor law in Chile is quite restrictive in reality and prevents conversations that are very important and that in other more developed countries than Chile are common between employers and employees. So, if I understand the question correctly, what we actually believe is that it should be possible to have much broader conversations between unions and employers that cover working conditions, future training conditions, and other conditions that affect job performance within companies, and as a sectoral negotiation. Well, for us, let's see, what we've said is that there are conversations that are worth having at the branch level. Salary discussions today, under the law we have, are done at the company level, and those salary negotiations would continue at the company level, but everything related to the workforce development strategy could be at the industry level, and that is one of the things we have proposed. Thank you very much, Lu Eduardo. Tomás Bunster comments. I believe that in our country we are experiencing a problem with the unemployment situation. When we have unemployment around 8% over the last 3 years and there are 900,000 people looking for a job and not finding one, we have a problem and we have to recognize it as such. And basically, to face that, we need not only a more dynamic economy, let's say, one that generates growth and creates jobs, but also to ensure that flexibility and adaptability are maintained in hiring practices, and the more it favors adaptability and flexibility, the better it is for business creation. Do you have any specific measurements? You have 30 seconds left. Well, a concrete measure, basically reducing the permits so that new jobs can be developed and reducing all the permitting, including labor permits, which have been heavily regulated at the level of the labor directorate, and we believe that in some cases they have gone too far beyond the agreements that have been adopted in Congress. Thank you so much. We also thank the people who voluntarily wanted to participate in this economic agenda for debate. Now, some questions that we have prepared here in the economics team of CNN Chile. These are fairly simple questions that I would like you to answer, yes or no? With a short argument, not of a minute, but much faster. Eh, Tomás Bounster begins answering. There is a bill that seeks to prevent fines for driving without a tag. Do you support it or not? No. Why? because I believe it introduces a disincentive to investment in infrastructure. Having the right mechanisms in place to collect fares has been fundamental to the development of public infrastructure, and this goes against that. Luis Obardo, do you support him or not? We do not support him. We believe that there is indeed a reason why if fines are eliminated altogether, then there are no incentives to pay taxes, and taxes have been a fundamental part of the development of highways in Chile. Now we believe there is room to reduce fines and we also believe there is room to reduce tolls and tax charges, as evidenced, for example, by the construction of the El Melón tunnel, in which the toll was reduced by half compared to what we had before and today we have two tunnels. The answers are crystal clear. Let's move on to the next one. Withdrawal of funds. Do they support them or not, Luis Eduardo? No, we do not support withdrawals of funds. We believe that the initial withdrawals from the pension fund , the first two, fulfilled a very important social function , especially because the Piñera government took a long time to provide the support that society needed at that time. Today we believe that with the pension agreement that exists, which our adversaries in the opposition did not participate in and systematically opposed, it is important to safeguard that agreement and protect the development of the capital market that stems from it. Perfect. This answer is shorter in this segment. Tomás, withdrawal of funds, not under any circumstances. It has been proven beyond a doubt that the withdrawals of funds were a terrible public policy, regardless of the fact that they were supported by other candidates and even the government itself at the time . The Republican Party has always been opposed during the previous discussion and today as well. Very well, next question for both of you to answer. The public sector is asking for a real wage increase of 2%, that is , 2% above inflation. What does Tomás Bounster think? What worries me most about the public sector readjustment, which is a process that happens every year, is that it is not properly provisioned in the budget law that was recently approved. Uh, it's a budget law that comes with imaginary revenues and overestimated expenses because they are not properly provisioned, among others, this expenditure item, let's say. So, he doesn't support it. Well, the process of readjusting the public sector will have to be developed with legislative agreement and with agreement between the different actors, let's say, as has happened every year. But the problem is that the sustainability of public finances must also be safeguarded. Luis Eduardo. Okay, the question is actually quite complex, but, well, as far back as I can remember, at least, the readjustment of public employees has never been included in the budget law , precisely because it is a separate negotiation and consequently it is within the calculations that were included in the budget, but it is not part of the exempt negotiation. But if this 2% had to make the decision, would you support it or not? I would try to make it a little lower given the fiscal conditions facing the country. Very good. Now we'll move on to direct, targeted questions that the CNN Chile economics team has prepared for each of the candidates. I'm starting with Luis Eduardo Escobar. The composition of the vital income of 750,000 pesos has been defined. Exactly how much is it? Well, not exactly, because it depends on economic parameters, as a great economist, John Meer Kanes, said: when the numbers change, I change my mind, and what do you do, right? So, what happens in the economy is contingent. What we have said is that we fully intend to implement a guaranteed income, not a minimum wage, a guaranteed income of 750,000 pesos per month starting in January 2030. What does Thomas Munster think? Well, I think those figures should be reviewed to see if they are compatible with the sustainability of public finances. Well, from the estimates we've reviewed, there's no real clarity on how it's financed and how much it costs. Uh, and I think we need to be very careful in ensuring fiscal sustainability going forward, let's say. And whether or not it is capable of guaranteeing that benefit. Very good. The next question is for Tomás Bounster. What's the status of the loan? Will it be modified or deleted? Call it what you will, the 1.5% extra contribution or self-loans that in the current reform would be given to the State in a later time. First, I think it's important to remember the context in which this proposal arises. Uh, the pension reform creates an autonomous pension protection fund that finances social insurance. The Autonomous Pension Protection Fund, known as the FAP, has three sources of income. It has an income of one point contribution charged to the employer which is distributed. It has a direct tax contribution of up to $1 billion and a mandatory contribution of 1.5% for workers. And all we have proposed is to replace that contribution with a contribution of equivalent magnitude directly charged to the nation's income, thus improving the replacement rates of all those contributors who will be forced to lend to the FA. And is that 1.5 reduced or added to the individual accounts? That 1.5 remains as a contribution that goes into the individual accounts of the workers. Instead of having to lend it to the State, it goes into their accounts. I think that's a detail we weren't aware of until now. I may be wrong, but I believe that's the case. What does Luis Eduardo think? Well, let's see, we uh, regarding what is under discussion here, basically the 1.5% of the loan. Now, to oppose that is to oppose the entire history of the pension fund reform. Initially, all of the AFP's investments had to go towards buying government bonds, all of them, and it reached 6% of GDP. And those are some of the accounts that the state is currently paying monthly to pensioners. So, to say that this is a scam, that this is stealing from people, that this does not recognize people's rights or people's financial interests is simply to distort reality. This debate has been very entertaining. Upon returning from this break, regarding the economic agenda, we will find out whether or not they support any of the ideas of the candidates who were eliminated in the first round, and they will also be able to ask each other questions. We see him returning here on Economic Agenda Debate. Invest in the new BTG PAC local fixed income ETF and easily access liquidity and diversification in a single instrument. Invest today in the Chile Medium Term Fixed Income ETF Investment Fund. Current BTG PAC. And it's bad service. I hope your company's security service is better. What an ugly setback. I mean, if someone breaks in to rob you. Advantage for the thieves. This man lacks confidence. The surprise too. TP, buddy. TP. Tepillé is the only security system for businesses that does not record thefts. He avoids them. Don't be the next victim, secure your peace of mind at tepillé.cl. With Tepillé. Nothing is impossible. At Atlas Renewable Energy we are leading the transformation towards a sustainable energy future for Chile and Latin America. We have a diversified portfolio of projects. We are also a benchmark in the renewable energy sector in Chile. We stand as leaders in storage in the country. Let's continue working together for a cleaner future. Atlas Renewable Energy. Leading the transformation towards a sustainable energy future for Chile. This car insurance assists you when you need it, 24/7. Because it's your car. Insure it in a consortium. If you think you can and if you think you can't, you're right. This December 14th, the future of Chile is in your hands. Expectations are rising, and information is power. The election climate reflects a citizenry committed to our entire team deployed throughout the country. This December 14th, we'll be with you from the very beginning with all the information and analysis. CNN Chile responds first. First tally of the electoral service. First to deliver results. Chile defines its future. Janette Jara and José Antonio Cast. Because in elections, every detail matters. CNN Chile, leader in news and analysis. Second round, on the way to the coin. We are CNN Chile, always. We return to this special economic agenda debate. Now we propose that we review measures that previous currency candidates proposed to see if the team of José Antonio Cast and Janet Jara share them or not. We start with one proposed by Johannes Kaais, we see it on screen. Elimination of contributions. In the current system, the State charges contributions to homeowners, even when they have already paid taxes when buying, building, or saving for years to acquire it. What Johan Skyiser said was that all primary or secondary, urban or rural properties will be exempt from taxes. Luis Eduardo Escobar started the first segment by answering . The first to comment on whether or not they will take this idea is Tomás Munster from José Antonio Cast's command . Well, as you can see in José Antonio Cast's own program, we have indeed incorporated the measure of eliminating contributions on the first home for people over 65 years of age initially. And that measure is included. That measure is one of the measures that José Antonio Casa of the Republican Party proposed a long time ago, and we also support it. We believe it is absolutely reasonable to be able to do so. The fiscal impact of what needs to be covered is not very large. They are, we estimate, within 170 million dollars and that seems very manageable to us. It seems to me a bit more limited than what Johann Skyiser himself proposes, but we do have it incorporated. When you say that initially it could be extended to younger people or to second homes. Secondary homes, not always the primary residence, but progressively the spirit is to aim towards the non-existence of contributions to the primary residence of people in general. Thank you so much. Luis Eduardo agrees with Johannes Kaiser's opinion, and Tomer also disagrees completely . Not at all. No, on that matter we definitely do not agree because, look, these gentlemen forget that in reality those who pay taxes today are mainly people with more resources and that taxes are a very important redistributive mechanism from the richest municipalities to the poorest municipalities. If you start eliminating contributions, starting from the beginning that they propose and extending it over time, you are preventing the rich from contributing less and less to strengthening, let's say, the financial position of the poorer communes. So, we don't believe that's a mechanism. It's Robin Hood instead of Robin Hood. So, in eliminating contributions for nothing Janet Jara, partially the candidacy of José Antonio Cast. We now turn to the proposal we have selected from Evely Matei, which Luis Eduardo Escobar already outlined in one of his responses. Zero down payment for first homes for young families. The subsidy is aimed at people between 25 and 40 years old who are contributing without prior property ownership and who wish to acquire a home of up to 4,500 UF. This benefit can only be used once per person and exclusively for the first home, only for living in, not for renting. What do you think of this proposal, Luis Eduardo Escobar? Would Janet Jar take command? We believe that this proposal aligns with the kinds of things we want and are promoting, which is to improve the quality of life for Chilean families, especially those with middle and low incomes. Consequently, we have said that we do not incorporate Mrs. Matei's measure, we put a cap on it that would be up to 700 UF for homes that do not exceed 4000 UF and we also want to maintain the subsidy to the interest rate as needed at UF + 3.5% as a maximum cap. Do you think it will also have an impact on mortgage rates? Well, I think that depends a bit on what the monetary policy is, so it depends on other factors and it also depends on what the United States does in terms of interest rate policy. So it's very difficult to determine that a priori because long-term rates also depend on global factors. Clear. Exactly. Okay. Tomás Bunster, the candidate of José Antonio Cast, is taking into consideration that zero-foot proposal for housing. Well, firstly we absolutely share the diagnosis with Matei's candidacy, and by the way, we have held meetings with various economists who participated in that candidacy, and José Antonio's team is expanding . And the first thing is that today we see a crisis in access to housing, basically because in the last 15 years the cost of new housing has doubled and real wages have grown by 30% in the same period and there we have a problem. And we believe that to broaden access and to facilitate access to housing, we cannot rule out any housing solution measures. In José Antonio's program, in the first round, the housing team has proposed a slightly different measure that involves land allocations and assisted self-construction , a mechanism that has proven successful, for example, after the 2010 earthquake. We are receiving the various proposals and evaluating them on their merits to see how we can complement it, but we believe it is very important to expand the housing solutions available to people. However, specifically here, they would evaluate it; they haven't decided how to implement it. It has not been decided yet, but it is under evaluation and we think it is an attractive proposal, at least worth reviewing. Thank you very much, Tomás. But that only benefits the lowest-income people, giving them the bare minimum. The problem, the problem, the problem of access to housing today, there is a part that is in camps where that type of measure is reasonable, but there is another very important part that has to do with young professionals and young workers who cannot access housing and who could access it through the mechanisms that we are proposing. Since Eduardo mentioned it, I'd like to respond. There are multiple solutions being considered. For example, self-construction is something that has borne fruit in the reconstruction of houses after the Viña fire, which Luis Eduardo himself has acknowledged, something that this government was not able to resolve, let's say. Uh, and basically there's a wide range of housing solutions. There are multiple proposals that we are reviewing. Very good. Now we see a proposal from the former candidate of agent Franco Parisi's party. We see her on screen. Senior public management, salaries with caps no greater than 5 million pesos. There's the whole breakdown, a fairly technical explanation with laws, etc., but we're going to summarize it to make life easier for people. And answer first, I've already asked you so many questions that I'm getting confused. Tomás Funster answers first. A cap of 5 million pesos for public sector salaries, yes or no? Well, for the moment, at least that's not a measure that's included in the economic program. We believe that salaries should be appropriate to the job description and that this should be adjusted to the market in order to attract the professionals and talent required in the different sectors. And if that gives him more flexibility and allows him to have different salaries, I think it's always within the realm of merit that this is the case, and we're not proposing to limit it to 5 million pesos gross at the moment due to the economic problem. At the very least, they go to reviews in ministries, in service directorates, in different state apparatuses, both to raise it and to lower it. What concerns us is ensuring the sustainability of public finances and that salaries are paid, that there are people who are truly putting their work at the service of the people, not political operatives, not cronyism , nor any of those cases, as has been seen in some periods, let's say, in the government administration, but as a general rule to limit it to 5 million pesos, that at least today is not contemplated. Perfect. Luis Eduardo, what is candidate Jara's position? Well, the Paris proposal did have to do with senior public management, and that is very dangerous because that is a different law. Well, in senior public management, people are hired based on market laws, and consequently, the State enters into direct competition with the private sector, and if it needs managerial capabilities, which are basically the functions of senior public management, it will have to pay the corresponding salaries. What we have committed to doing is to set a limit of five million pesos gross per month for all those people who are trusted by the minister and the president of the Republic. For example, the candidate said in an interview with advisors, with ministers, for example, that anyone who wants to come and work in the public sector should make their contribution to the public sector. Thank you very much, Luardo and Tomás, for commenting on the proposals of those who are no longer in the running for the currency. Okay, now we move on to another segment of this Economic Agenda debate. I have already asked many questions, now I want you to ask them because I imagine you have questions for each other to clarify, perhaps to criticize, or to elaborate on the economic programs. The first person to ask a question this time is Luis Eduardo Escobar to Tomás Bunster. Well, Tomás, this isn't personal, of course, we are part of candidacies that represented programs that are beyond individuals. But there's a question that keeps going around in our heads, and mine in particular, having been a macroeconomist my whole life: when you say, "Let's lower taxes by four points," then you say, well, for every point of tax you lower, you're going to lose 500 million dollars or so, right? millions more, millions less. So that means that your income each year will generate a higher income deficit, and you say that this government has been wrong about the income projections. So, that loss of income will somehow have to be compensated for, because otherwise the level of debt will increase. And then I would like to know what debt restrictions you have set for yourselves and how you plan to finance this public deficit. Tomás, look, first of all, and I'm not taking this personally at all, Luis Eduardo, no, do n't worry. First, a number of things need to be explained. The economic program has three pillars, let's say, that work together. The tax reduction does not operate in isolation. Uh, the tax cut, indeed, we have estimated that for each percentage point less in the statutory rate, $450 million less will be collected. That's the way it is and we haven't denied it in any case, and that in the long run certain projects will be triggered that become profitable and will have an effect on greater growth, but in the long term, in the short term, there is indeed a drop in revenue. But this is not all we are doing , because we are also looking to revive the economy with a super-ambitious agenda in terms of regulatory facilitation that will also help to offset some of the deficit. And we must not forget, we are proposing a fiscal adjustment because for us it is essential to have the convergence of fiscal balance within the administration. But regarding the question, do you provide evidence or answer it with the afer curve? In other words, less tax, more revenue. No, that's not true. In this case, we are acting in conjunction with lower taxes and a fiscal adjustment. We are compensating for it through spending. We must not forget that through spending, in fact, with the figures that are coming out today, we are at an effective deficit of 2.7 points. For next year, it's supposed to be 1.1, but it's probably going to be 2.2. In other words, if we want to close the deficit, which are the proposals that this government itself has made, let's say, we have to make a significant adjustment and part of it, a smaller part, in fact, if the impact is the first three points, we are talking about around 1.3 billion dollars, is in response to the tax reform. Very good. Now Tomás Bounster asks Luis Eduardo Escobar. I'll continue with the tax issue then, taking advantage of the fact that we're on that conversation. Uh, this government has set the most deficit-ridden fiscal targets, and they have been missed three times. Today we have the FES, the sovereign funds at their minimum level, and we have a recently approved budget law whose revenue estimate, which is the basis for building the budget, has been widely criticized. Well, everything indicates, and the Autonomous Fiscal Council has said so in its reports, that if we continue on this path there is a significant probability of exceeding the prudent level of 45%. What is your opinion, Luis Eduardo, regarding exceeding that threshold in the macroeconomic management that you propose? Do they get over it , or not? Is closing the deficit important to them? How do you see the macroeconomic management of the next administration? Look, I think that in general in the profession, let's put it that way, we agree that we have to correct the path that public finances are taking. In that sense, I am not a defender of this government, so if you want an answer about what this government has done , you should call Minister Grau instead. But as far as we are concerned, looking ahead, we have said, look, in order to take care of the urgent social needs that exist in the country, we are going to increase public spending, probably by one percentage point of GDP during this 4-year period. And we think that can be perfectly offset by greater economic growth, which I believe all economists agree helps to generate income, a much better tax collection and administration that has begun to bear fruit in this last year despite all the criticism from the opposition. And thirdly, there is a black hole here that has been little explored and that we have been studying in recent months, which has to do with the behavior of customs in Chile. Much of what is sold along the ditches, which doesn't pay a cent in taxes, nor does it go to the entrance, and everything that comes after that afterwards, uh, went through customs and never paid anything. Therefore, we believe that strengthening customs is a central element of this policy. Lu Eduardo, some time ago here on Zero Tolerance you implied that you weren't too worried if the level of public debt reached 50%. He still maintains it. Okay, let me elaborate a little bit on that. Look, the 45% is a figure that my colleague and friend Mario Marcel invented, thinking a bit about what fiscal space he needed that would leave him enough leeway during this government so as not to pass it on. The 45% is a fiction, like any number that one invents because it seems like a limit that left room for one. Now, countries comparable to Chile, already emerging economies, with a similar per capita income to Chile and everything else, have a level of debt that is 15 points higher than Chile's. And emerging economies in general have 75% of their GDP in public debt. We're 42, right? So, what I, what we have said, look, for us it is much more important to safeguard the investment quality of Chilean public debt, because that ensures the interest rate for the rest of the economy and that and that and if that is 44, if it is 46 eh% of GDP, we'll see. We are committed to achieving fiscal convergence during the presidential term. Okay, let's return to the questions posed by the CNN Chile economic team. They also have quick responses. Okay. Okay. Are they going to reduce or merge ministries? Luis Eduardo. Well, we have been opening up to that conversation and the candidate has said that one possibility would be, for example, to merge the Ministry of National Assets with the Ministry of Housing, because the main problem that housing has is that it does not have land and all the land is national property. Let's coordinate to start from there. Very good, José. Sorry, Tomás. Today our main concern is to make public spending more efficient and to save money. Well, merging ministries is a measure that can contribute to that, it can also contribute to better coordination of the State, but in principle, because that obviously has to go through its legislative process, the possibility of operating with two or three ministers has been evaluated to make the organization more efficient and then be able to converge towards an eventual merger of ministries. And the same would also happen with positions that may be duplicated in those ministries. Well, that's precisely the goal: to facilitate coordination and eliminate duplication. Very good. Next question. The IMASEC for October was released today by the Central Bank; it was 2.2%. Main or first measure to quickly expedite investments. Tomás Booster answers first. evacuate the 10 billion dollars that today have an approved environmental qualification resolution, which are waiting for a resolution from the Committee of Ministers or the executive directorate of the SEA, waiting to be resolved in deadlines that today we see and it is incomprehensible how they are taking up to eight times the deadlines established in the regulation. Very good, Luis Eduardo. We agree. That was one of the first measures in our program. In the first 10 pages of the program, it appears precisely that measure is fundamental to unlock the environmental processes. And that's why we've talked about creating a special office dedicated to that from the presidency of the Republic. Very good. Another piece of information that emerged over the weekend is that Van Médica has a new owner. This is Patria Investments, which are also partners here at Moneda Asset. They are going to take control of Van Médica and also of Clínica Santa María and others. Before that, I want to ask you, and Luis Eduardo Escobar will answer first, is there any change for ISAPRES (private health insurance companies) in a government event? At the moment we are not considering any changes to the ISAPRES (private health insurance companies). What we want to do is try to better coordinate the activities of the private sector that has installed capacity that the public sector could use if we agree on the services, prices, etc., etc. And that would help us reduce waiting lists. Tomás Funster, for now, does not consider any significant substantive reform of the ISAPREs in part of the economic program. We share the concern that there are certain health emergencies that we must be able to resolve, and for that we need the existence of the private sector and also the existence of public health together to be able to resolve our main emergency, which is the long waiting lists. There are less than two weeks left for us all to choose who will be the next president of the Republic. We hope that this economic agenda discussion has been useful for you to make your decision regarding December 14th. I thank Tomás Munster, economic spokesperson for José Antonio Cas. Thank you for being with us. Thanks to you, Nicolás, and to Luis Eduardo Escobar, as always, thank you very much for joining us representing Janet Jara. Thank you very much, Nicolás, it has been a pleasure to be here and to be with Mr. Bounster once again. Very well, and it has been a pleasure to be with both of you and that you were able to join us. I'm Nicolás Paut and I invite you to stay with us here on CNN Chile. BTG Pactual Investment Bank. I caught you.