Peter Wild and Carlos Lacone, welcome to Acquiring Minds. Thank you. Thanks. So, today's conversation will be a bit different than usual. Peter, you are the seller of a business and Carlos, you are the pre-sale operator of said business and ultimately the one who facilitated its sale. And what I want the audience to get from this conversation is first, Peter, a glimpse inside the mind of a seller. So, Acquiring Minds focuses on people who buy businesses, but I have long had requests to get a seller on the show so we can hear the perspective from the other side of the table. So, we'll spend time on that. And second, from you Carlos, how you identified within Peter's business that it would be one that that it would be a good candidate for a searcher to acquire and kind of the story about how you put things together to make all of that happen. And then lastly, I'll say that the audience will have also heard an interview with the buyer of your business, Peter, Don Gurley. So, we are getting across a two-part interview a full 360° view of this story. So, let's begin, guys. Peter, by way of introduction, can you give us a quick background on you and what Boston Tree Preservation is? We'll get to a little more history in a minute. So, in 1977, 46 odd years ago, I started a professional tree care company. I was 23 years old. And I took that four and a half decade run growing and promoting a professional tree care company in the greater Boston area. And when it was time to consider selling the company, it was probably 10 years prior to when I actually sold the company. And uh I ended up, uh developing a relationship with Carlos Laconi, and we moved towards selling the company. We had 3 years to sell it, and we sold it in 18 months. Beautiful. Thank you. And, Carlos, to you, same question, please. Yeah, I'm originally from Argentina. All my experience was in agriculture. So, spend 12, 13 years, uh with with my own companies down there. And, I operating farms, exporting to Europe, the US. Then, in 2015, I came to Boston to my MBA. And, then I focus on entrepreneurship through acquisition at Babson College. And, uh at the at that after that, I my my career changed, and I was focused on on that, trying to do a search fund in Argentina, but it didn't work out because like the country wasn't suitable for that. And, then always being involved in the search fund community, and, then, uh eventually, join Boston Tree Preservation, uh because he's uh Peter Jr. reach out to me to and like he first he offered me a job to manage the business, and we started this conversation. We like immediately clicked with everyone, then with Peter. And, then we came up together with the idea of like putting together the company, growing a little, and selling it. And, we did it in 2022. We're going to dive into all of that. Carlos, back to you. So, you said you came to the States to get your MBA, and as I recall from our pre-call, you really fell in love with the idea of buying a business, of of ETA. At you were at Babson. Give us a little more color there. So, basically, I big box Babson I chose Babson College because of of entrepreneurship. My idea was to come, do the MBA, come back, and continue growing my business. But, my roommate, when I just arrived, the first like the the first minute, he who coming from investment banking and private equity, and doing the whole career and he wanted to do a search fund. So, immediately he started talking about that and I got in love with the the concept. And then I picked all the classes for that, did my internship in search fund accelerator. And then like went to absolutely everything all the events, conferences and everything. And then I I knew when when I knew the concept, I knew I wanted to do something related to that. And then uh well, tried to do that, but I didn't have my visa at that point. So, uh uh after an an MBA you get only 1 year and the searching period is usually two. So, talked to traditional investors and like they would they would tell me go to Argentina, do it there. And I would say no, that country is not like I mean, if you see the model it needs to be in stable scenario, a business that's been stable, a country that is collapsing is like very difficult to find that and So, then I said I want to do in the US. They said no. And then I ended up uh starting a subsidiary of my company here of the Argentinian company. Got my visa, my green card, all the stuff like and then I was living South Carolina. And I remember the first calls with Peter and Peter Jr. And when I started talking to Pete Jr. and Peter, I said this is exactly what a searcher is looking for. It it it adapts like perfect for a search fund. So, and then I ended up moving back to Boston and uh continuing this process of of growing and like putting the company together. So, Carlos, you fell in love with ETA, you kind of um attempted search in a bunch of different ways, you talked to investors, you kind of considered doing it in Argentina, the model didn't work. You came back to the US, you're in South Carolina and the Wild duo, Peter Wild and Peter and Peter Wild Peter Jr. Wild um reach out. So, to you Peter, first you were deciding to sell the business. What What What precipitated this decision? Well, that's a great first question to start with because there's a difference between selling a business and closing a business. Sometimes you need to close a business because of a traumatic event, a death, or whatever. And it's a fire sale, and that's, you know, whatever however it plays out, it plays out. But selling a business, particularly a successful business, is a real consideration for a small service-type oriented business. Typically, a a service business would sell to a a competitor. A A A pretty much a local competitor cuz they want the geography. They They want the geographic footprint that you've built. And And they want the phone list. And we we had we had about 20 square miles and about 10,000 people. Um we serviced uh 3 or 4,000 of those people annually. And out of those 3 or 4,000 people we serviced annually, we had multiple visits to those clients uh per year. So, we were doing about 20,000 stops a year, but I'm I'm I'm getting off on a tangent here. So, so it selling a successful, profitable business to the right individual is a serious chess game. It's It It You got to You got to move You got to move all the parts and all the players succinctly with the right people. And in this particular scenario, Carlos, I know you would agree, but it worked out swimmingly, and it was done smart, intelligent, swiftly, correctly, accurately. And uh here we are 9 months later uh and and it's just the transition's gone fabulous and I I think when you hear from Don, you'll you'll pick up on the same passion. And Peter, did you decide that it was time to sell the business basically because you were looking to retire or was there some other some other reason? Well, okay, so jokingly but not jokingly, a 50-year run is enough. And and sometimes, you know, sometimes people might take it until they drop. And that's just the personality type, but you know, you want to live several lifetimes in this one body if you can. And Carlos brought up the entrepreneurship, but I never thought of myself as an entrepreneur. I don't think an entrepreneur truly thinks of themselves as an entrepreneur. They just have a vision and they act on hunches. And some are successful and some aren't. And and it's just what you do cuz you know your trade. But about 10 years ago after the company was uh 35 uh years old, uh I started getting uh calls from competitors saying uh if you ever want to sell your business, uh I'm I'm here to talk. And so uh people would approach me and I'd say, "Okay, let let's have a conversation and see what that looks like." But um not to throw that process under the bus cuz it it can work. But what happens is you start analyzing, "Well, if you're only going to pay me this much money for the business, if I run the business for another 2 years, uh I'll make that money and still own the business that has a value." So it it's really kind of a tease. And so I I never sold the business uh below value because I felt like I had to get out. And think of it, this is was a 4 and 1/2 decade run in an industry with employees who had been with me for over 40 years, over 20 years, over over 10 years. So, this was a well-oiled machine. I wasn't being tortured by customer issues, employee issues, geographic issues, equipment issues. It was just a well-oiled machine. And even though I had to put in a lot of time, I had a passion for the industry, so I loved it. Uh I didn't mind keeping the business. So, there were probably three or four attempts over a 10-year period where I considered selling to a competitor. And I was aware of the search fund concept, and I liked it, but I thought the search fund concept wasn't for a business my size. I thought it was for businesses that were of greater scale. And uh what I learned from Carlos uh was that there there are people who live local, who have an MBA, who know the search fund routine, and they want to buy a job, and they want a local company, and they want the relationships with local clients in a local community, you know, the old uh American Pie story. And so, uh this is on on a small scale uh the quintessential search fund purchase. And just for a frame of reference, can we get a sense of the size of your business? Where you you said you thought it might be too small for a traditional search fund. How big is the business? It was on the lower side of a traditional business. Uh it was uh on the just on the border. So, like like couple of millions in revenue and yeah. But like really good margins and like so that that was like the the pre like I mean when I got all the information I said this is exactly for like it's like good work for a traditional search fund, but it was perfect for a self-funded search search fund because it was on on that side of the But to your question, I just want to make it like a note. I asked the same question. How do you reach out to me? I mean South Carolina, I'm from Argentina and like there's obviously like like local people. Boston has like how many schools here like and the entrepreneurship through acquisition concept is So, I asked the same question you asked Peter to Peter Jr. He told me he used LinkedIn and put in the search for job like MBA Boston. I still have my profile in Boston. Agriculture, search funds, entrepreneurship through acquisition. And he was like the only person. I mean he got like other of candidates, but like then immediately we clicked and like yeah. Well, I guess Carlos, I mean all of those all of those search terms would have yielded a lot of people. It was the agriculture that was the one in the Venn diagram that made you one of one, I guess. Yeah, but what like one of like I think there were three, but like the other people were like like not not related to the but yeah. So, I didn't realize that Peter Jr. didn't know you, Carlos, that it was cold out there. When I saw the the email, I thought it was like You know, you get these things like it was greeting in like because Peter Jr. knew about search funds and like it was greeting. So, when I saw that thing I'm after being introduced to the concept all the time I've been thinking like every time you see like a track or a company you think oh, is this suitable for a search fund or not? It's like automatically. So, when I read that email and the explanation I said oh, this is like search fund search fund material. But like no, I didn't know Peter Jr. and I thought it was like not a scam, but like you know, like you get those messages in LinkedIn. Sure. But then like I saw that and I go, oh. Immediately like, yeah. The first call was like 3 hours I think or 2 hours and a half. Usually that call is like 5 minutes, you know? And like I I just say I I was doing something else. I wasn't even looking for a job, you know? But then like I saw this is like perfect. And like everything went like smoothly and yeah. And let's 30 seconds on Peter Jr. P Jr. How did he know what search funds were? Is he in in business? Where does he live? Why is he the one doing all this? Speak somebody speak for him. The pandemic started. He moved to with his dad. And then and at some point he wanted to do he had explored the search fund thing, but he's more like a an entrepreneur by like traditional entrepreneur, not the entrepreneurship entrepreneur through acquisition or searcher. So he knew about the concept and that's why like and and when I started pitching all the ETA stuff, he I mean he knew that and then we talked to Peter and like I mean Peter's really smart, so like he gets it immediately. And then like the three of us like I said, oh this is like this is what we're going to do. But Pete uh yes, that I mean he knew about entrepreneurs through acquisition and but he he he had like his own startups and he didn't wanted to the first question I made like uh like why aren't you taking uh I mean why aren't you like taking over this business? And uh well he had other issues, but it was like all like coincidentally, you know, like pandemic, he's living with dad and like talking about the business and then like they said, "Hey, let's try this." And they reach out to me and yeah. Great. Peter, you that was really interesting what you said about your when you be approached by competitors locally and and you'd have conversations about selling the business and you by you saying, "Well, I could just work for 2 more years and basically generate the same amount of money for myself and still own the business." So that translates in our world to they were offering basically 2x a 2x multiple on your annual cash flow, more or less. Um, does that Does that make sense? Well, I'd I'd say half of 1X. And it it I mean, I don't I know that doesn't make any mathematical sense, but uh it was really fire sale pricing. And, you know, most successful service businesses don't sell because what what why would you sell a cash cow that's so well-oiled machine that's running swimmingly. You know, you'd think it would just carry on and carry on and carry on. Uh I my children were not interested in in the business. And um that was all well and good. You know, it it's really interesting watching children who have grown up in an in entrepreneurial environment. And and so uh my children were were never afraid to take a risk, never afraid to make a gamble, never afraid to be geographically stuck in an area, never afraid to try this or try that. And and you know, it wasn't like we raised them, you know, to be specifically entrepreneurial, but they they were in an environment where there were changes and there was forward motion and there were things that didn't work out and things that did work out. So, anyways, it was not looking good to sell a business to a competitor at a fire sale price. And so, the search fund model, I mean, somebody who's buying a business, I don't care what scale it is, big or small, the search fund model, they're going to take a look at the books. And and and the and they're not going to buy a business that doesn't show either huge potential or serious foundational um establishment for for this ripe for success. And so I I knew because of the 3-year window we'd given Carlos to sell the company. I knew that we were in a growth mode. And and and that we were in in a in a ripe place to make this company look not only successful, but but profitable. And COVID played into that because it's a green industry business and people were stuck at home. They were investing in in their landscapes because they were home and they were able to look at their trees instead of looking at their pocketbook. So it the the business grew fabulously through COVID. So, you know, the business always had growth. COVID hit and we had more growth. It was established in a geographic greater Boston area for 46 years. It everything was was green-light. And like Peter kind of created that like he Boston Tree Preservation is the only company doing organic plant health care. And he's one like of the like the the pioneers in the industry. So, that was something. So, basically the business has like like thousands of accounts. Most of them prepaid. And like the the business operates from March to December, but 2/3 of the revenue or more comes as prepaid in the winter months. So, and like zero like customer concentration is like zero something. Very simple. Then the margins are really good. So, when I saw all this stuff and like they were not exactly in the books, you know, like you have that was something that I I learned from Peter on on my my transition period. I like learn about the industry. I didn't know anything about plant health care. I come from agriculture and like trading and exports, but this is like and when when they first reach out to me I thought landscaping, like I have no idea what that but it's nothing to do like that. All our technicians were like had like a lot of experience. They they have a passion for trees and the organic industry. And also most of them have degrees. Like we started hiring like people because like they you know like if if you have like a science soil degree or like environmental studies or like agriculture in the Boston area, this is really good opportunity to live in the in the in in this city which is great and and the the the job is very simple. They love it and so they there were a bunch of things that I liked of the company and at that point I I was analyzing everything as a searcher, you know. But No, no. He he basically started this this thing at some point when he started the company it was a traditional landscaping company, but then he found this niche and only focus on that and it's the only company that's that only does that. Most companies do a small com like like and they don't even care. But I mean we have the creator of the industry so like he knows way better than me about that. Well, perfect segue, Carlos. Peter, let's now tell people exactly what Boston Tree Preservation does and of course how it's differentiated from an arborist or a you know, a tree trimming business. And then also let's get a a quick history on it. It started out as a a basic tree care company where we did pruning, removal, and plant health care. Plant health care means um insect and disease management as well as fertilization of trees. So, uh as as time went on and climate climate started to change the pressures in the urban forest because it it Imagine you've got the forest forest that obviously maintains itself to some degree. And then you've got the urban forest where you've got trees that are planted along streets, they're planted next to sidewalks, they're planted up against foundations. There's a disrupted water table that distributes their their moisture content. So, trees in the urban forest are under a huge amount of stress and people think of them as statues where they're really living entities. And the tree that's above the ground is really just a barometer of the health of the root system below. So, when a tree starts to decline or develop dead wood it the root of the problem, no pun intended, the root of the problem is in is in the soil health. So, I I learned and my entrepreneurial side came out that if I focus on organics because when you're dealing with Mother Nature the synthetic world doesn't work. Synthetic works in agriculture sort of. Uh or we wouldn't have the food supply that we have. But, in the urban forest it's all about repairing the soil. Uh here's a question for you, Will. How many years have we been raking leaves in the urban forest? Well, for the duration of my lifetime, so at least since the 80s. Yeah, so so we We start recreating in society until uh the late 1800s. And and so for for 100 years we've been raking leaves. Okay. And the reason I use that as a little test is because that that organic matter trees are autotrophic. They make their own food and we rake it away every year. Ah. So how how many years or can an urban forest forest tolerate the removal of its food? Mhm. So so um I I happened to come along when the urban forest uh experienced sprawl. Trees were more impacted by stress. Soil was poorly managed and I started seeing the decline of trees. And just because of my knowledge and passion in the industry, I learned that by improving the soil health the tree would improve. Not only would the tree improve the insects go away the disease goes away and the tree thrives. Or the tree can tolerate it. So I developed organic soil amendment programs including worm farming for the foundation of our nutritional amendments. And so we were the only game in town that was taking this approach. And so when our customers would talk to us because they'd have questions about their trees the language that we spoke about what we were going to do to their property was different than anybody else's conversation. So I really felt like I had no competition. So we set our pricing standards. We we conveyed our passion for the health of the landscape. And because we had years and decades of previous results from because you know, you might be able to fix a headache in 20 minutes with an aspirin, but if a tree has a headache, it's going to take you about 3 years to to to get this tree back on track. And our customers, they they believed in us. We had track records and so they'd hang in there with us and we would turn these properties into glowing uh landscapes uh that didn't require pesticides, didn't require fungicides, and people liked that approach because we were in an educated area where our customers were were were they didn't want chemicals in their environment. And we were years ahead of them in our programs to fulfill that need. And the beautiful thing is once our customers came on board, that was it. We had a customer for life. Mhm. We're actually working for the grandchildren of our first customer base now. Mhm. Well, I have I have a lot of follow-ups there. One thing I want to do with all that, Peter, is is contextualize it a little bit. So, to be clear, you you, as I recall from our pre-call, you started as a young young guy, but even more history, industry history for tree service is when you were a young man, it was the local what? Policeman and fireman who would take down your tree for you. You know, so it wasn't kind of a formal industry. You kind of started similarly as kind of an amateur um just doing traditional tree work, taking off limbs, taking down trees, s- developed a passion for it, studied it at UMass, right? Yep. And then and then went into the industry again kind of as a traditional tree service business. And as you learned about um kind of more of the science of this and and true tree health, you evolved all the stuff that you just described for us. These approaches, this organic approach, this more holistic healthful approach. Is that a good encapsulation of about 20 or 25 years? Yes, thank thank you for filling in those blanks for me. But yeah, yes, so it and and that is kind of interesting to have been a part of an industry that that started out as, you know, a vocation or a hobby, you know, the moonlighting policeman or fireman would cut down the dead elm trees. When I started in business, all those elm trees were dying from Dutch elm disease. And uh there was a lot of tree removal going on. And um that's a whole 'nother conversation of the evolution of the urban forest and certain tree collapse. But uh when I first started out, there wasn't the level of competition locally cuz it was a new industry. And then as time went on, the competition became greater and it opened up the slot for me to focus on plant health care and do it organically and focus on that and and become, you know, an expert, a pioneer, uh with an already established customer base. And then you have the climate disruption that fed into that. Every time we turn around, there'd be a a new insect, a new disease, a new hurricane. Uh it was it was really fascinating as a person in the industry to watch it unfold. And all of this your kind of your pioneering days, when you're evolving from a traditional tree service business into one who's taking this organic approach to things, was kind of '70s and '80s. Um as the as the wider culture itself was kind of opening its mind to organics, right? That that's kind of all in that that time frame. Yeah, and and uh let let me just try and create a synopsis of a brief picture, but um so you you have these hurricanes that come along and knock down valuable trees in a in a in a community and people get tree awareness. And then a couple years later, you have an insect infestation come in like the gypsy moth caterpillar that defoliated over half the state of Massachusetts for about 5 years in a row. This was this was a big deal for for homeowners who had trees and landscapes. And so the only way to really rectify those problems and get the urban forest back on track was through soil health and and treatment. But it during those particular times, the organic movement, you know, people wanting to get away from chemicals, it was becoming evident that DDT and chlordane and the the pesticides used in the in in the environment. And and TrueGreen ChemLawn had been around for you know, had started and for 5 or 10 years people had had been putting synthetic stuff on their lawn to make their lawns look good. Mhm. And and so people started to develop an awareness and one of their first questions would be, you know, do you use chemicals? Cuz we we don't want any chemicals in our environment. My my my child has a health issue or my spouse has a health issue or uh we just don't want chemicals in the environment. So as as much as I'd like to see myself as a uh you know, an environmental steward only working organically, I I was I was almost forced to move into that direction because I went with the demand of the of the people. Mhm. Yeah, the market was kind of leading you there. So, the audience here is going to be business-minded, too. So, just to get a picture of the business itself, you do you all or do you also just become the landscaper of your thousands of of customers? Are you also the landscaper or do they have a traditional landscaper in addition to Boston Tree Preservation? They have an additional landscaper, but in the early years, the opportunity was there. Why why wouldn't you take um an extra quarter of a million uh dollars of revenue coming into your young growing company and do some uh landscape installations and uh some hardscape stuff and and uh lawn care uh we certainly were capable of installing lawns and uh promoting uh lawn health, but isn't it interesting? Nobody is ever happy with their lawn. They you know, what perfect lawn one dandelion and whoever's ever managing that lawn is going to hear about it. Mhm. And and so, uh we we we we started the first organic lawn care company in the state of Massachusetts in 1996. And uh um there were people who wanted to uh move into that arena and we had a large customer base. And so, we started an organic lawn care program and we we taught people that weeds were messengers as to what was wrong with your landscape. And you needed that three-year approach. You know, we're not fixing this overnight. We're going to fix it over time and not only is that a good sales tool for customer retention, but it's also the truth. And so, we started an organic lawn care company, and it was so successful that the person I had running it wanted to buy it, and I sold it. Can I have Can I have a little like some background? So, basically, Peter started this business in 1977, but he's always creating new businesses or programs or some stuff like that. The business Boston Tree had like 30 programs. Some of them would be So, he started like injecting hemlocks and started another company, and then like he patented that, raised money from investors, everything. In within the company, programs like that like that, he would create other companies. Even at some point, he he had like a manufacturing thing. So, like all the time do doing businesses. And like he the lawn care business, because of what he explained, no one is happy with that. He created a program as a long as a long thing, and then he sold that. So, like he's always like the the and like but like it's fun to me like we would be there like having breakfast or something. Like he he would always come up with an idea. Why don't you do like or like plant tomatoes inside here like organic like something or like all the time doing So, like he like super funny, Peter, that that you you don't consider yourself an entrepreneur given given that. So, what's interesting about that is the green industry particularly, it used you know, it was the moonlighting policeman and firemen, or it might have been you know, the the the the old school uh Italian landscaper. It just it wasn't really professionalized, and so, I happened to get into an industry that wasn't completely saturated at the top. A lot of these businesses, you get into it, and your competition is huge. How do you separate yourself away from that? So, there was so much opportunity in the green industry because nobody had really invested in it on these higher more professional levels. And I just saw I was like a little kid in the candy store. I I just saw so much opportunity. I I I literally had to contain myself. Carlos, coming back to you. So, when Peter Jr. reaches out to you and you are on the heels of some sort of fits and starts in your own search trying to do a search fund. The obvious question is why were you why was it not that you would buy the business? Why did you and Peter Jr. and and Peter decide that you would instead kind of smooth out the edges and package the business for sale to somebody else? So, we considered that at some point and all the negotiation I did with with P Jr. I mean, not negotiation, talks. Originally uh the plan was me joining the company, growing it for like indefinite time indefinite time and like like we didn't really know like how and and at that point I I didn't have access to all the financials. I didn't know know the industry. But yeah, the the the reason we didn't end it up doing that was because we wanted to align incentives and sell it at the maximum price. If I was if I'm managing that business and now I know everything about that and like then I'll just like try to pay not a lot, you know? And that what we thought and that was one of our initial conversations and that's why we say, "Okay, we're selling to someone else." If we sell. So, so I so what I'm gathering is that that the Peter father and son Peter saw that there needed to be another few years here. I think Peter at one point at some point he wanted to continue forever with the business. I think we had to convince you Peter at some point that okay, it's right time to sell it. You had the idea I mean you've been approached by by by competitors and like while we were operating the business, we would have calls with like the huge competitors trying to to talk. He never wanted to sell. So when I tried to like like reach out to strategic buyers and like to get it get it get He wouldn't like that. He would say no, these people will come like fire all the employees put their own things like Boston Tree as a brand disappears, which is true. And but I remember Peter at some point like we were we didn't really have like I had this plan of like selling it. But like we didn't have like a timeline. I mean like we were supposed to sell it after 3 years and then like I I like we accelerated this ended up selling in 18 months. But to like to your question, I think we wanted to align incentives and we wanted to sell at the highest price possible, you know? But also I'm trying to understand why when Peter Jr. approached you, why he didn't approach you to to to buy the business. So it sounds like the Peter Sr. and Jr. decided that there needed to be some years there where there needed to be additional growth, maybe professionalization to kind of mature the company and prepare it for sale. So that's where you Peter your thinking was was it's not ready for sale yet. So we need to find somebody to bring it in to prepare it for sale. I don't know that I I thought of Carlos as an individual who would buy the company. Um I thought because of his education and and his background that he would be uh the perfect candidate to seek out a buyer. And um it was great that he he he had the the background in the industry, so he kinds of knows the he knows the the ins and outs of personalities possibly and and some of the uh obstacles. But, we uh I I was always under the impression that we we were going to go out and sell it to somebody else. But, it didn't mean that there couldn't be a conversation where we decided to take a different approach. Uh at I I I feel that because of the geographic location of this company in the greater Boston area, because uh you know, our our customer base is, you know, three generations in, and uh the the geographic closeness, this is a huge part of it. You know, the the majority of our customer base is within 20 square miles, and that's doable even in a traffic area. So, uh there there might have been a situation where we decided to um you know, take take a different approach with this company. It's it's franchisable. The the the organic programs that have been developed are are very unique and specialized. Uh somebody could uh take this business concept and and and start it somewhere else, and uh it you know, probably within a a 3-5 year period, grow a uh million-dollar company. Um little investment, little hard work, um right place, right time. So, we we we could have uh gone in that direction by saying, "Hey, let's franchise this." Carlos might have come in with that idea. But, um the gentleman uh Don, who who bought the company, I think he and you'll hear this from him, I think he saw the whole package. He saw lean and mean and he saw the ability to to grow either locally or potentially nationally. Well, it speaking of Don, Peter, one thing I also want to get from you is the you know, as I've heard you talk and your and and I've heard Carlos talk about, you know, what an entrepreneur you are and and what a pioneer you are and and an originator of ideas in this world and and your clear depth of knowledge and your own kind of discovery. I'm not trying to I'm not trying to flatter you. This is I'm I'm trying to paint a picture. You know, you you it does start to feel like this is going to be a hard business to sell because the founder is such a visionary and so much of the what the business does is up in his head. Now, of course, you've you've you've passed that on and and infused that into the culture and the and the collective knowledge of the business. But still, so so to yeah, talk to me about and you had mentioned earlier like finding the right individual was going to be the key when you really started thinking about selling this business to to a person. Um finding that person was going to be really hard. How did you think about that cuz there's not going to be another Peter Wild out there. So, uh this sounds as an aside, but the older I get the more I understand the concept of leaving on a high note. You know, you don't want to be you don't want to be the last guy at the party. That they're booting out the door. So, uh it I I I had, you know, really I I um I I started professionally in in '77, but it was when I was uh you know, 19 years old, uh 1 year out of high school that I chose and it's interesting cuz they say most people can can pick their career path at that 17, 19-year-old age, you know, just before the frontal lobe gets developed and you've still got some passion for things. But at 19 years old, you know, so 50 years 50 years ago I made a commitment to this industry and so I I had that that run and I the leaving on a high note concept you can't do it forever. But it makes me feel really good to have grown, built, and sold a complete trajectory of a business model that just reeked of success. I'm not Bill Gates, right? But it I had a good run and I had some ups and downs, but I just feel blessed to have been an American with opportunity and have taken advantage of that in a positive light and and succeeded in that and and so and and the transition as to how it got sold and passed on has has gone swimmingly. So it it's really uh very very positive and I'm proud of that. And like do you like well we did like we we used to make like final days like we're doing the reverse search one because I I knew the concept and everything and like well we were instead of someone reaching out to us, a searcher, we were going to find the right person. And what we did was like first like when I joined the company we were in the middle of a digital transformation. And we put salesforce and like we are so that so I really like the company and to your question like is it possible those were questions that I was having. Is it possible to replace Peter while in this company? And one of the things was like the company has been stable I mean growing stably for like 20 years. And he was the CEO of another company. So that that to me a signal was like okay like someone my age can manage a business like this. He was operating another company since like 1999 to 2015. So that that to me was and like this company stable they have another person managing the business and like stuff like that. And then we thought we're going to sell in 3 years. And then when we when we were all on board for selling the the company we put a teaser in searchfunder.com and got like 60 people reaching out to me. So like I'm like talking to these people and from them I knew like 15 from the conferences and the search from community. And then from my class for not even like the the the entrepreneurship through acquisition concentration from buying a small business class that was like a small class three people reach out to me. First we started the we well I put like prices like the the highest we could but I thought we're going to negotiate and go down. And first we went with one person that I knew for the LOI and the whole like thing. He couldn't secure in um in in the investors or the funding and then uh he I mean we didn't ended up selling to him. And then we went with Don which I also knew and like we we had this conversation with Peter and we thought that this is like the the right person to to take this business to the next level because like he's a military guy and like has like the right education and like will connect with the people from from the company and everything and like uh I and this is something personal. I think like you know like with they're like super super like my like they they have a manual for everything on the military. But Boston Tree was more like like Peter and I I think we have the same personality like entrepreneur like doing one million things at the same time. I thought yeah, a person that is like focused and like ordered will succeed here like dramatically. And so is this uh post of yours still available on Search Funders? The original post of I think I put it and I had to delete it because I was getting so so many responses. Ah. So like I I kept it there for like we were testing the waters at that point. We're not like yeah, we'll just see like what happens. So Carlos, what did what did you do when you got in there for those 18 months that to improve the business and prepare it for sale? And And why did you guys decide to start testing the waters and look for buyers at 18 months rather than the the the pre-planned 36 months? So the company like I as Peter explained was like getting all the all the sales and everything. No one was actively selling or like doing and the company was like majority residential. So when I joined the company uh they we're we're just starting a digital transformation. So I we had to focus on that, put Salesforce together which added a lot to the business and ended up being the the backbone of the business. Then we integrated everything to that. So QuickBooks online uh the marketing the thing of like Constant Contact also integrated. Uh what else? We changed Gusto, the payroll and all that stuff. So Salesforce ended up being the backbone and we put everything there. And that took us a lot of time. Then we also hire more people in preparation for growth. So we're When I joined, we were like hiring people uh doing the digital transformation and then testing new things. That was the really fun thing of the company that uh you you do something small and like get like growth because and then we tried to do to get more Peter always like uh residential customers. I like commercial because it takes like like one phone call and like you get something but like we got we got some of them. We did like some uh colleges campuses and then uh well, Peter got the like it wasn't common at some point. That was amazing. That and that was one of the last like before selling where the company was almost sold and we went together, me and Peter driving a truck and I explain that was I I like before the the day that that was like so fun. Yeah. And Carlos, give us an example or two of something that you did in the business that where you'd see growth. I think you said like small changes would lead to kind of immediate positive feedback in terms of growth. Did I understand that correctly? Yeah, correct. I mean, the the first thing I did like first I understood how how to to to sell and I was being uh sitting next to Peter. He'll be doing phone calls and then I will start like copying that. One thing we did was like uh put that in You know this website Angie's List and or Angie's like post it there. Started getting 1 million things and I would I used that as a testing because I didn't want to like You know the all the search from literature says like for a year don't don't sell. Just learn the business. Sit there. And so I didn't want it to like create any like concern on customers. So I would use that to learn. And I would ask Peter or like sometime put him on the calls and like try to sell to these people and to understand the whole business the the whole cycle. Uh then uh well, we did the m- uh email campaigns. We did a lot of those with Peter. And so, I I I wasn't really I At that point, I'm I just joined the business and I'm so, I was leaning on on his knowledge or either like in the company if you ask any of the other people, they also know. So, like but like I I didn't want it to like disrupt these people. And then another thing we did when we knew we were selling we empowered our people like like for example, the the the And that's something Peter always got. Like he he wanted to take people that have been with the company and like give them managerial positions, you know? I Me coming from a different background, I was like, "No, I mean let's hire an MBA. Let's hire this person with a degree." He'd be more like, "No, these people have been like 20 years." And and which is something great. I mean, these people now have like everyone has a laptop and they know how to operate with Salesforce and then the the the company we changed a lot. Now like we wanted to do something like an Uber thing. Like when the employees come and they get their their tablet and they do like go to customers, do services, click something and that goes to Salesforce, Salesforce to QuickBooks. And that was something that that I really loved from the company at the beginning. Like we put all this together and I had access to all the the financials live or everything that was going on. The company you So, I live 5 minutes from the company and with all the digital transformation we did, I could operate it from here if I wanted because everything was online. And that for a landscaping business it's a it doesn't exist. Let me ask about the tech transformation, digital transformation because one of the things that um Peter, we a lot of my guests talk about what we talk about in this world is that there are businesses that are decades old that haven't that aren't on the latest technology. There's kind of a there's kind of a symbol of that a fax machine business where, you know, they're still a fax machine rather than you know the the salesforce or whatever up-to-date SaaS tools. Um and so it seems like this great opportunity, you know, out with the fax machine in with modern tools. And it can work great but sometimes there's there's a suspicion that that's oversold that that digital transformation isn't necessarily what's holding a business back. Um be because there are many other features to a business other than just kind of the kind of moving the paper around or making that paper digital and moving that information around. But it sounds like in this in this business that this was a great candidate for digital transformation and and that you saw immediate rewards for for making that transformation. Can you respond to any of that? It was before computers and uh the business has started in um 77 and it was the early '80s and computers started to hit um small businesses. And I had a friend who was a uh a coder or a a software writer and so he was uh a good friend and in the computer industry. And this gypsy moth caterpillar hit the state and there was it was out of control. Um and and so you had to keep you had to go from keeping track of hundred hundreds of customers to thousands of customers and like the the dentist notifies you when it's time to get your teeth cleaned, we had to notify people when it was time to to perform certain uh services on their property. So, a the Kpro 10 a 10 meg computer, an Okidata printer, and a friend who could write the code a Dbase code uh for me. I learned at that stage what it was like to become bleeding edge, not cutting edge, but bleeding edge. And I'm going, "Wow, if you want to grow your business successfully and you've got a friend who's in the industry and you're willing to make the investment into being bleeding edge, I was 100% for it. So, I had a 40-year run with this individual who as an aside wrote my programs, helped me take my ideas, the things I wanted to keep track of it was FoxPro. We had a FoxPro Dbase system and you had to write every bit of it. And so, we just kept massaging it, massaging it, massaging it. And I took a an over a 40-year run with one software package that completely ran my business swimmingly. And I I'm just going to I'm going to step out of the box for a second. So, you remember when the airlines went down last winter? What was it? Southwest? Mhm. The airlines went down and they they they just they they they couldn't manage the flights, so they shut down the industry for a couple of days and it sent everybody in a tizzy. The the software program that they were running was FoxPro. That was like 40 years old and they'd never really bothered to update it. But that's how fabulous uh this dBase program was for making your company bleeding edge. And so uh it was time to leave that database because uh computers couldn't talk the language anymore. And it was dying. Your the Fox When I When I joined the company he the software he had created was dying. So it was like I couldn't even open that thing like, you know, like Yeah. And that's why the airline shut down. And then when we got at some point we had like So Peter wouldn't go to Salesforce and he would just continue operating on the 80s software. My staff loved the old old software program cuz it was it was custom-made to exactly how we ran the company. But we made the switch to Salesforce. Anybody you talk to, hey, it's great cuz you can you could What's good about it is you can do whatever you want with it. What's bad about it is it's a lot of hard work to get there. But so we we decided I've decided to go bleeding edge. And so we went with Salesforce. We went with Gusto. We went with SmartBooks, uh Constant Contact. We decided full magilla that we were going to change this this company to But how how many attempts it took you, Peter, to get because like to to leave the Fox system? Oh, it it it it took a few years and it was very frustrating and and and and a lot of accidents happened and those those were costly but not devastating. But uh mostly uh emotionally frustrating. But, we with Carlos on board and and and my son uh and and this whole new generational concept and then I instigated into that concept telehealth because telehealth became so popular during COVID with human health. And I said, "Let's do telehealth, Patrice." Mhm. And so, you're uh I'm starting to stray, but it's interesting. But, even your 85-year-old person knows how to take a picture on a cell phone and text that picture somewhere else. So, we we because it was not popular to go visit people's properties because of COVID exposure, we told people to send in pictures. And it ended up becoming hugely efficient for sales, growth, profitability. And it it So, we saw this telehealth move as the pinnacle of the bleeding edge of integrating all these new systems and it was like game over. And you know, the big change that that the the the largest change we did going from paper to digital. And like that would give us multiple attempts on the contracts on the yearly contracts because in the past you would just send a paper and it would go in an envelope if the person doesn't open or doesn't send the check or whatever. And then we put uh digital contracts with credit card and that was like we could track who opened, who read the emails, who sending us the money, everything. So, we could do only by doing that the the the one thing we tried to do is like multiple things at the same time. And like you know, that's not what is advised. Join a business, learn in business, then do some changes. And then like start trying new things. I joined and like we don't have time for that. We just like start touching all the buttons for everything and trying to change everything. But like it worked well. I mean we grew a lot the company during these two or two and a half years that we were operating the thing. But uh The the biggest change was the digital contracts. Don't you think, Peter? Uh yes. And and it was uh it was you know, it's a big deal to send out 12,000 folded and stuffed contracts and not everybody responds timely. So you got to you know, send out to the stragglers. And we made it all electronic. People felt comfortable uh submitting their credit card information. Um it was very efficient for them. Nothing in the mail. And and then on top of that, if people hadn't signed up for a particular program, we could send out and we could capture those people, send them out an email saying next week this program's happened and you may not have signed up a month ago, but you might want to sign up now. And so we were we were generating business electronically like a symphony. Mhm. I love it. No, no. It wasn't like that. We would see like sometimes like we would have breakfast every Monday to talk about like what's going on everything with Peter and then we'll do like a few hours of sales. Uh remember you used to say there was like printing money, Peter? We said, "Yeah, let's print some money." Few phone calls da da da da da Well, on this point about um printing money and you know, it it getting your systems in place and having this product market fit. People clearly like this service. It's It's still I think differentiated. Your mention earlier, Peter, of you know, entertaining a franchise concept. I don't know a ton of about the the the the tree industry, but it doesn't feel like a kind of a an organic approach to trees. It still feels not mainstream. It still feels like the the industry isn't totally there. That most of the industry is just trimming, cutting, removal. Am I correct me if I'm wrong? And then if I'm not wrong, how do you see forward adoption of your approach to tree maintenance? Over the course of 50 years, a half a century, what happened was pruning and removal started to become automated with fast chainsaws, fast cutting chainsaws and cranes. And you didn't really need to know anything about the industry. You just need needed to know how to cut a tree down. Mhm. And so the industry, one group went to cranes and cutting. And the educated group uh and I mean educated about uh plants, insects, disease, soil, you know, being like a tree doctor. Uh that that group went went off uh in another route. And so the climate promoted the health care issue because we started having drought. We started having too much rain. We started not having snow in the winter. That that's hugely impactful on uh plants that require frozen ground and uh you know, a dormancy period. So all these issues started impacting trees and so uh you might have a tree on your property that's 100 or 150 years old and that that tree has a value of $150,000 to the property. And so, your educated homeowner would know that. So, when the tree's health would be impacted by an insect, a disease, or decline, they'd call an arborist, and the arborist would say, "You know, we we got to get this tree back on track." And then you would pull the uh the the natural tools out of the toolbox by improving the soil, uh improving the health of the tree, and getting it back on track. And so, this was our customer base. They were people who were uh proactive about protecting their investment. Mhm. And And that was our niche. And And do you see that that I I assume that trend is kind of only continued? I mean, the world is much more environmentally conscious, organic conscious, Whole Foods on, you know, in every city now sort of thing. I know you know the Boston market extremely well, but I'm just curious about the opportunity for a business model like yours elsewhere. Well, wherever there's trees, okay? And And And And you know what's interesting? It's not really about the uh financial demographic of the area because some of our most uh sincere, valuable, uh proactive customers were the people who might not have been able to afford much, but they loved their trees. Mhm. There's still There's passion there. You You You could uh You could have a magnolia that your widowed husband planted 50 years ago, and you're going to do whatever you can to It's sort of like saving the cat, you know, or the dog. Yeah. It's a pet and um it's it's alive and uh I love that. So so uh and and and what what better client than a plant? So so so I I you know, I don't know that I'd want to be a human doctor, but I love being a tree doctor. Guys, I want to start wrapping up here and Peter, I want to hear a little bit more from you on the psychology of selling. Um we've been we've been in and around that for the duration of the conversation, but let's let's address it directly. We often we as buyer business buyers, people listening to this podcast, uh often think about, you know, when we're thinking about the psychology of the person on the other side of the table, you, that this is selling your baby. And and you seem like a great example of this, Peter, because you you really you you are you know, this is really an extension of of you and your vision. Um you know, you were a pioneer in your industry, so I feel like you it might be even more so that Boston Tree Preservation is your baby. Although on our pre-call, I felt like you had also you were very had come to terms with selling it. So talk us through uh for the for the buyers out there, you know, give us a window into how you think about um selling this business, this 40-50-year-old business. Well, there's the financial aspect and I'm and and so let's let's put that all all to the side because um it it's really not about the finances uh so to speak. So um have you ever heard the expression busman's holiday? No. So what does the bus driver do on his vacation? He takes a bus somewhere. Right? So so so uh it I think that the way to transition is not to start playing golf or buy a boat. But, the way to transition is you know, once you have a passion for the green industry, you know, working with the soil and plants, you it never goes away. So, I have a farm uh that I converted to a tree farm. And there's really no money in farming, but I I'm able to transition my passion into propagating and growing plants. And so, that fulfills um that inherent need of working with nature. But, um I don't I don't mind leaving the management. I was a good manager and I was a relationship builder with clients and a relationship builder with employees, and that contributes to part of the success. But, um at at this particular stage, I get to free myself of the day-to-day responsibilities of business ownership, but yet stay in touch with, you know, the the passion of nature and its promotion. But, and then but specifically about the entity that you've built, this business, you know, you've addressed scratching the itch of doing the work of working with plants. But, the idea of that this entity, this family, this business, this brand, this presence in the community, this way of approaching plant health, handing that handing the reins over to somebody else, it sounds like you're fine with doing that. The time had come and you're you're okay with it because but just to kind of anchor a contrast here, other others might not be willing or able to let go of their business. Um I think that I've I've I've lived a few different lives uh, in in the industry by growing and changing and and developing. And so, this is just this is just the next thing. And, uh, isn't it interesting when you can take the perspective that, you know what? I'm going to cut this cord. I'm going to take a break, and I'm going to see what comes along next. Mhm. It's a great the sense of possibility and uncertainty. It's a great feeling. Yeah. And then, one other last thing for you, Peter, and then I want to, um, close with you, Carlos. The you you said you were aware of of searchers, the search kind of the search fund model. And and I think you said that you liked the idea of kind of a kind of a younger and enterprising entrepreneur who's willing to buy a job. Could you elaborate on that? Like, what why do you um, how do you see searchers? Cuz that's who's listening to you right now. How um, and and we do we think a lot about how we're received by sellers. We'll send emails and say, "Hey, I'm, you know, somebody that wants to buy a business." And I then I'd like to talk to you about buying your business. Uh, and sometimes the recipient of those emails, the sellers, the owners of the these businesses are like, "What? Who who are you?" Whereas other times, uh, those conversations happen and a transaction occurs. So, from one seller to 5,000 buyers, what would you tell us? At some point you were a a little doubtful, no? Like, when I told you that we are selling to these person, we'll do this, we'll structure the little with this way that with the SBA and something. You were like I I And this is a my question to Peter. You probably didn't believe at that at some point, no? You were like, "Ah, well, we'll just go with what Carlos saying." But, like, you were not like 800% sure that we were going to to succeed on that, no? Well, um, not every it Most relationships fall apart. And so, it they do. And and it takes that about deals. I am not sure I've heard that about relationships. takes it takes years to build a relationship, but they can fall apart in a fraction of a second. A fraction of a second. It happens in marriage all the time. So, uh what what bothered me was letting go and and and and saying, "Okay, I am taking the risk of this relationship completely collapsing and me not being pleased with the the the transition moving forward, and am I willing to take that risk?" And I I was willing to take the risk, but we took a calculated risk because you know, being smart is a superpower. And and and and so if if you say and I I learned how to play chess as a young boy, and I credit having learned and played a lot of chess uh to my business success uh cuz you learn strategy, you learn three or four moves ahead, three or four moves behind. So, chess was really important to me. So, this was a chess move bringing in somebody like Carlos. Bringing in uh somebody like my my son and and playing those pieces correctly cuz I had I had not accepted prior to a competitor buying the company cuz it it it wasn't the right chess move. So, all all the chess moves were were moving correctly and gave me the confidence that even though there's a huge possibility for relationships to fail that that this was the best that we could do. And here it is. It's been eight or nine months and I am shocked at how swimmingly, and I think Don will share the same thing. It's just gone it's it's gone fabulous, and and I credit that to all the players. I credit it to being being smart and taking advantage of that superpower. And so, because the the team of all of us are relationship builders, uh Don with his military background, you know, knowing how to keep the troops moving, know- knowing how to keep it together, and being smart. So, we were smart, we made the right moves, we had the right people, and we cared. And one thing I I used to ask this to Peter, who do you think is the like the the right buyer? In your mind, Peter, before knowing about the search fund model, you told me that you thought it was going to be a kid with an a rich dad buying this business for him, right? Am I correct? Yeah. I I thought that Before then So, and and so, I I would ask him, "Who do you think is like the right buyer for this?" And he would say, "No, I think it's it'll be like a like a really wealthy man buying this business for his kid." And like and then like not the the search fund the the the searcher or whatever. And then like he was always against strategic buyers because of like the legacy, the brand changing, the keeping the employees. Of course, I mean, we Remember like we were approached by like one of like the big companies, and I would I I wanted to entertain the conversation, but he said, "No, no, no. Not even entertain that." Like I mean, at some point he's like like fathering the the the people in the company. I think but there's people that have been working there for 45 years. So, to him is like very emotional, you know? It's not like a So, all that stuff that we're reading in the literature for search fund, was there. It It It's right. So, Carlos, so having now immersed yourself in ETA as you were kind of doing your own search and exploring it, and then ended up kind of doing this quote-unquote reverse search fund and working closely with Peter to get into his business, see his business, uh help digitally transform it, improve it in other ways, package it for sale, and get inside Peter's head and understand seller psychology. And then also having negotiated with two potential buyers, ultimately ending with Don, and understanding the buyer perspective so well as a one-time kind of buyer yourself, any takeaways uh for for the audience about how to think about ETAs? Is there anything um that you observed that isn't in the literature, isn't already on the podcast? I think you have to analyze the the owner, the business owner, when you are and how he lives. And that was the first thing I did before before joining BTP and before partnering with Peter and everything, I think you like I'm I'm this is something like qualitative or like from your gut. You have to meet with the owner and see how he lives. Do you because basically you're taking over that position, so when I when I met with Peter, we came from I was South Carolina, came here, met him and his son, we went like for dinner multiple times, and then like I think we went to his farm and everything. And I knew his story that I I thought like would I like to be so very interesting life and like then like uh that that's what like I think people need to check. Like you don't want to buy a small business where the owner lives in a shed and like drives a van, you know? Like Mhm. when I saw Peter like he has a beautiful farm in Cape Cod and like trees and then we like uh like his life was really interesting. He's traveled the world, started multiple businesses, has a good family. Uh I mean he he likes a lot of like I like cars, he likes cars, and like so he would show me his cars and like the motorcycles and everything. Yeah, I mean this is like totally I think you have to analyze that. Like you don't want to buy like something that is like amazing in paper, but then you have to you see the like an HVAC owner driving a truck like like a van really old van and he lives in a in a shed. Right. Right. Yeah. And and I don't know if I'm being politically correct but like you know with Peter in the like in the first like 5 seconds of our conversation I knew like oh yeah man. Yeah. Well, I I think we can tease that out a little bit because there's a couple there's a couple of things you're looking for in the owner seller which is first of all do you like them? Can you work with them? Is there chemistry? Um that I think we knew but then there's also kind of like you know seeing their lifestyle as a proxy for how much money they've made or is coming out of the business. And so the third piece is kind of the X factor of like interesting life. Do you admire this person? Do you admire the style of life that they have? Not necessarily do you want to be them but do you kind of could you kind of kind of that? I mean do you kind of admire what what they built and and is because this business has facilitated that the life that they've made and um and so this business could afford you the same thing or or something similar and it also is just a reflection on if if if the founder seller owner is kind of interesting um that probably says something too about the culture of the business. You know he's he's probably put in some of that has trickled down and into the business itself and of course culture of the business is going to be important. So yeah, I guess I guess uh breaking bread with the with the seller and seeing how he lives or she lives is uh is a proxy for a lot of different things. Anything that we didn't touch on gentlemen? We're a little over time but if we forgot something let's let's make sure we air it. The old standby is uh my parents told me that money didn't grow on trees. So so I thought I'd give it a shot. But but um So many puns in the tree in the tree industry I had no idea. But you know I I started out liking what was interesting about chainsaws and and loud noises and sawdust in your face. I I started out, you know, liking what was Neanderthal about the industry. But But But what What What Once I got connected uh to it and and developed a passion, it was it was just an unbelievable spiritual, if I dare to use that word. It was just a spiritual business ride that reeked of creativity and and and marketing and relationship building and, you know, fun trucks and fun equipment. And so, I I feel truly blessed uh that I uh stumbled into an industry where I could develop passion. And uh I I think we're all very bright people, but I don't think that we realize how bright we can be, but when you're given an opportunity for the intelligence to come to the surface and be creative and artistic and touch things and grow things, it there's no better experience in life than to have that opportunity. Uh so, I feel blessed. That's so well put, Peter, and it's something that I've thought about a lot is that um it it those people who really excel, it's often be because their circumstance just happens to overlap with the innate talents that they have just through some fluke of fate. Exactly. And and luck And lucky them, because what a what a gift to your unique set of talents find their outlet in something You live in the right time in the right country with the right resources to see those talents flourish. Um it's it's really just an alignment of stars that few people get to experience. So, uh that's that's wonderful. But I know what's being read that we did the whole like joining the company and partnering and selling it and that the relationship is still like I mean I talked to Peter like every 2 days on the phone, you know, like buying each other like lottery tickets and like stuff. All of that That's like that to me more than the monetary thing like the the the the money thing that we were able to like like maintain this. It's been 9 months and like that that to me has been great, too. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. That is great. And I have to ask that raises the question, how much are you guys in touch with Don, the buyer? Like so I am still here like 5 minutes from there and like he every time he needs something I am like like there there. I have like I'm very I'm having like beers every like 2 weeks or something like that. Like to like obviously I want to see how everything's going and I kind of check, hey, how's everything going? I mean if he if he's not reaching out it means that everything's going well. But and it is. But sometimes yeah, sometimes I like just say it. I I go there and there's a brewery next to the to the to the warehouse and everything. So we go there and I have a beer. I ask him like a few things, hey, how's everything? Revenue good, this good, this good. Few metrics and then I'm gone. Um Nice. You, Peter? Great. Well, were you were you saying anything, Peter? Well well, just, you know, all the staff stayed. It it and and that was a a really important uh sign. So he has all the intelligence and and and the people who have been running this company for decades uh it it in place. But of course uh you talk about separating from the company. Of course, I thought Don wouldn't be able to like make a decision without me. So, I thought he'd be calling me all the time, and I never hear from the guy. And how how great is that that he has that confidence with the staff that's in place that he doesn't have to ask me, you know, all these trivial potentially questions. So, I hear from him on occasion, you know, a couple times a month. Maybe there's a key question to answer, and that's about the size of it. So, that that lack of his needing me is really a positive sign, and I'll I'll get over it. Absolutely. A testament to the how how uh finely tuned, as you put it earlier, the machine the machine really is. Yeah. So, Peter Wild and Carlos Laconi, thank you guys very much for giving me so much time and telling this story. Uh it's really fun to hear kind of the other side of the table and Carlos, your unique position in this quote quote reverse search fund. And uh and it'll be really fun to also talk to Don and and fit all the pieces together and hear yet another perspective. So, thank you very much, gentlemen. Thank you. It was a pleasure being here and telling our story and having a little fun. Always. I mean, with Peter, always everything is fun. That's what I That's right. And not every relationship has to fall apart. I hope you enjoyed that interview. Make sure you subscribe to the Acquiring Minds channel below. We are now publishing twice a week. So, tons of new interviews and stories to come. Stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business.