I had lost my mom. I had no purpose in my life. And I truly was unfulfilled every single day. I wanted it to be so much more than uh just a jewelry brand. I knew from the get-go like I can't quit. I have to make this work. In life, you have two arrows. The first arrow that hits you, you cannot control. But the second arrow is what you do next. I genuinely chose to just not let it define me. and to not let myself be a victim of my own story. So I was not a born entrepreneur. I started from absolutely nothing. I had no money in the bank. Entrepreneurship can be so lonely. You can get caught up in small things that take a lot of time and have minimal impact. I think for me the biggest mistake that I made was believing that I couldn't do it. >> I'm Richard Harpin, a Yorkshire who sold my company for4 billion. and this is the business leader podcast where we look at the stories and strategies behind modern businesses. I'm passionate about helping British businesses scale and succeed. I think it's the key to unlocking Britain's economic growth. Founders and CEOs of midsize companies can be members of the business leader community for coaching, peer-to-peer forums, and exclusive learning events. So, please get involved. With more people on board, Business Leader can have better conversations and inspire the UK's next wave of business leaders. In the meantime, please click on the subscribe button. It's just one click. It's free and it helps us grow the community. With more people on board, Business Leader can have better conversations and inspire the UK's next wave of business leaders. Today my guest is Olivia Jenkins, the founder of the jewelry brand Dlouise, named after her mother who passed away in 2017 from colon cancer. How did Olivia deal with this tragedy and set up a business in her memory? How did she teach herself to run her business and attract investors and what is her best piece of advice? Olivia, great to have you on the business leader podcast. Who was Dliz? So, Douise is a jewelry brand and we specialize in uh waterproof, sweatproof jewelry that you never have to take off. >> And where did the where did the name originate from? >> Yeah. So, in um 2021, which is when we started, I was in a place in my life that I like to describe as a perfect storm. So, everything was sort of going around me and I was in the middle and and I had lost my mom. I had no purpose in my life and I truly was unfulfilled every single day. So when the idea came around to start a business, I wanted it to be so much more than uh just a jewelry brand. And I wanted it to almost be like my guiding light in life. And I decided to name it after my mom who I did lose in 2017. So her name was Deborah Louise. And the decision early on made such a transformative impact on me. Like I knew from the get-go like I can't quit. I have to make this work. And it has allowed me to show up in a way which has been so impactful on my own story but also on the DLE customer. >> Feels like every day with that name you're doing it in memory of your mom. >> Yeah. And honestly, um, grief is such a weird thing and people really struggle to talk about grief because it is like a very, um, it's a difficult topic, but what the company has allowed me to do is that I'm able to talk about her every single day. And it was almost like a way of me healing my own grief and my own my own journey. Um, so that's just one way that I have dealt with that. Um, and been able to come through the other side. There's a uh business school theory that anybody that's been through a crucible, a personal or business crisis can come out the other end and go on and take over the world and achieve much more. Feels like you you believe that? >> Yeah. No, definitely. And what I like to say is um I'm not necessarily a religious person person but I am quite spiritual. And Buddha has this thing where he says um in life you have two arrows. So, the first arrow that hits you, you cannot control and it's going to hurt and it's going to feel messy and it's probably going to set you back. But the second arrow is what you do next. You can decide if that second arrow hurts you. You can decide if you want it to have a negative impact on your life. And lots of people suffer from that second arrow. But I genuinely chose to just not let it define me and to not let myself be a victim of my own story. >> And so what would your advice be to anybody that's listening to this that's grappling with a crisis at the moment, whether it's a personal one or a business one? >> I think for me it's about knowing that everything is temporary and that is positive and negative. So things in life when you're really happy is only for a short amount of time. And things in life when it's negative, not saying it's going to be a short amount of time, but it is temporary. And one thing that I find really really helps me is that there is this thing called the circle of control. And the wider circle are things that you can't cannot control. And this will be like e economy, politics, uh the weather. And then within that circle, you have a little circle which you can control. And this is where I found great fuel and great power. And that is how you show up every single day. It is how you talk to yourself. It's how you treat other people. It's about making steps every single day that are having a positive impact on your life. And when you have that little circle of control, it makes you stronger to deal with the bigger circle of things that you can't control. >> So the message is focus on the things you can't you can control. Yeah. >> And forget about whatever the world crisis is. You've just got to keep growing your business. >> Yeah, definitely. And so I'd love to hear how it um it was set up in 2021. >> Yeah. >> How did you go about setting up the business and talk us through that story? >> Yeah. So I um am probably different to uh most entrepreneurs. So I was not a born entrepreneur. I was a girl who wanted a 9 to5 and I wanted to close my laptop at the end of the day and forget about my job. And I quickly realized when we started um building the brand that entrepreneurship can be learned and every single day I was teaching myself from scratch and in itself that is entrepreneurship but I didn't label it as that in the very beginning. So I started from absolutely nothing. I had no money in the bank. I had no idea how to do international sourcing, no idea how to sell a product, marketing, accounting. Um, and when you have that like great resilience and that great like belief system, you take steps every single day in order to build the business. So, it very much in the beginning was from my spare bedroom, me shipping out orders. Um, my co-founder and fiance Jack was uh spending a lot of money on paid advertising to get us our sales. Um he famously tells the story that um so when we were setting it all up he had spent lockdown uh working out Facebook ads and this was like they say it's like in the good old days when it was a lot easier to acquire customers and he said to me um he was like if you set if you set up the business you decide the brand you decide on all the jewelry and the products and all the all the fun stuff I will make sure that you get sales and um so we went live on like the Thursday and then by the Friday, all of all of the sales had been people I knew, like family, friends, and then it on the 24 hours later, I was like, there's no sales and there's no uh there's no every name I know has bought. Um, and I said to him, I'm like, what's going on? Like, why are we not getting any sales from these like strangers that you're going to find? And he was like, "No, this is so normal. Like, don't worry about it. It's like it's it's all going to be okay." And um we eventually got a sale maybe like on the Sunday, but he now tells me that he spent nearly like £1,000 to get that first sale. >> £1,000. >> And he was basically saying to me, "Don't worry about it." But in his head, he was like, "Oh my god, what's going to happen if we don't get this?" >> He's admitted that he was panicking then. >> Yeah, exactly. Um but it was so good that we just persevered and and kept going even though we didn't have it all figured out in the beginning. >> How important do you think it is to have a co-founder? Oh, it's so important. That would probably be like one of the biggest tips for me for anyone going into business because I think entrepreneurship can be so lonely and when you are a solo founder, you have no one to bounce off. You um have all of the responsibility and I think when you have a co-founder, there is just someone else to lean on and they love the business just as much as you do and they have almost like they are a part of it as you are. And I think it like for me you are who you surround yourself with and you need you need resource. So you need yings and yangs. So me and Jack are totally opposite. So he is someone who is so commercially driven so a big visionary and then we describe me as an operator. So I'm able to make his dreams come true. And I think when you're starting out as a small business or you need resource and if you have two co-founders you don't have to pay anyone. Um so yeah. So it separate the roles and work out who does what between the two of you. >> Yeah, definitely. I feel like our natural skill sets do send us different directions and that would probably be my second piece of advice is that if you are going to find a co-founder, make sure they have different skills to you cuz there is absolutely no point you both having the same skills. And does it make it more difficult when to separate the personal and the business given that Jack's your fiance and um you're getting married this year? >> Yeah. So I think for me one of the biggest shifts that I had is that business our relationship is business and personal and I think because we have put our heart and soul into the business it would be quite strange if it didn't seep into our relationship. And the other thing is that there's such a story and a narrative that when you come home, you have to leave work at home. But for us, because we both love it so much that when we go home, we want to talk about it and we want to talk about our goals and we want to talk about our dreams. And like don't get me wrong, if I'm on holiday and I'm on a sunbed and he's asking me a question about the P&L, I'm going to say, "You can stop now." But I think for the the most part, I think it's a huge competitive advantage because we're both together 24/7 and we're able to then work on the business and our dreams 24/7. >> Jewelry is a very competitive market. Lots of businesses out there. What was your what was your niche? So the product is called is made from stainless steel and five years ago it was very very new to the market and all of the big players were kind of like oh shut up this little stainless steel brand over here um like we're going to keep it very traditional and jewelry has always been a very traditional industry. You have your silvers and your golds and your diamonds. Then there was a shift into goldplated jewelry and then now the most current shift is stainless steel which is where we are. And what we're able to do with stainless steel is the biggest USP is that you can wear it all the time. So if you're in the gym, if you're swimming, if you're on holiday, you can wear it and it will stay gold. And what I love so much about it is that I want everyone in the world to be able to experience Douise. So, we keep our prices very, very accessible and competitive because I never want price to be a reason why someone can't experience a really good product. Um, and that also seeps into our quality. So, like our customers come back time and time again because the quality of our product, we're constantly testing. I was just in Hong Kong and there's um a new test that they can do with they basically put fake sweat into the jewelry into like an incubator and test it for 3 days. and we're constantly evolving and expanding the lifpan of our jewelry. Um, so yeah, the biggest USP is definitely the the longevity, the quality, and the accessibility >> and a lot of your customers that are gymgoers and um don't want to take off the jewelry. What's your what is your target customer? What's incredible is that like the the world has shifted from being in nightclubs and going out and getting drunk to a real wellness era. And the biggest impact for us is that we're allowed, we're able to show up in places where traditional jewelry brands can't. So, for example, I'm running the London Marathon this year and we're going to do an activation around how you can wear our jewelry during the marathon, which no one else can do. So we like to show up in areas for our customer and our target customer in places where they would not normally see jewelry. So this is the gym. This is in um in on holiday. What we also have as well is like we have a huge gifting side of the business. So people are very emotionally connected to the story and they love giving people that they know and love. Douise. So I would say our our target customer is very broad. The older demographic is definitely the the gifting and then the younger it would definitely be the the active lifestyle. >> And what are your two bestselling products right now and how much do they um sell for? >> So our best bestselling product is our compass necklace. So we developed that and it's uh we trademarked it um and that was we launched it in 2023 and it has remained our bestseller since we launched it. So it's basically a compass necklace. Um it's got four quadrants on it. So you can get um four initials engraved in it. So it's great for like moms can get their kids on it or you could get a date that is really important to you. Um so again it's like touching on that like sentimental piece of the brand and people's stories and that one retails for £75. Then the second vest is a luxe tennis bracelet. So I'm actually wearing it. I love anything sparkly. >> So let's have a look. >> Yeah. So I love anything sparkly. Um, and what I love is I love surprise and delight in a customer. So, I love giving people really good value for money. And when this is also £75. So, when someone comes on our website, they see this bracelet. Like, if you look at any of our competitors, it will be two, three, four times the price of what we sell it at. And our quality is probably better than theirs. >> And it survives the gym and the swim. >> Exactly. Yeah. So, um, I love a surprise and delight. So that this is just been such a classic piece for us has been again a bestseller for for multiple years and I think it's because it's so good and we see people come back time and time again and they keep buying the tennis bracelet or the compass necklace and it's obviously because they've bought it for themselves and then they want to buy it for someone else cuz they love it so much. Is this a single channel business where it's online only or is the potential for pop-up stands in gyms or on marathons uh and having a wholesale business selling into other retailers? >> So, traditionally we have been 100% DTOC and um we've just made a incredible hire for a wholesale role. Um, so Matt has come over from uh Sorovski and he was there for 17 years as their head of wholesale. Um, and he is now part of our team. >> Was that a big decision? Was that an expensive hire? >> Yeah, definitely. And I think as well it's um, it was a expensive hire. And do you know what? when you're like a small player and you're trying to compete with the the names of like the Pandoraas, the Sorovskis, it's really funny because you would never even think that someone from that company would want to work for you. Um, but what was really refreshing is they saw such potential in our wholesale business and expansion. So, this year is we're saying it's the year of distribution and we want to get everywhere in front of our customers. Jewelry is traditionally bought in person. people want to look and feel it and touch it and sizing is a big thing. You don't know your ring size. Um so there's a huge demand for the Dise customer to have it in person. Um so we're really really excited about the opportunity in retail because again talking about traditional jewelry it's always been about silver and gold and what we're really doing is coming in and disrupting that market with our stainless steel and our good prices and our good quality. And I think it's um it's kind of dangerous territory because we're kind of being looked at by the big players. Um but yeah, it's a really exciting opportunity for us to expand into wholesale. >> And which uh which retailers have you signed up so far? >> So we are currently on next Flannels and Frasers and we're about to roll out into Beaverbrooks which I'm very excited about. >> And is this about a omni channel model where the different distributions can help each other? So getting into a um uh a branch of next can you track your own BTOC business around that branch and show that it's gone up or gone down? >> Yeah, definitely. I think one thing u we were talking about it before but Douise is definitely the brand of the people and I think one of the best things that you can do as a business owner is make sure that where you're located isn't a stunt of your growth. So we could definitely just become a London jewelry brand, but what we're seeing is a real demand for douies all over the UK. So we have been really selective with the partners that we work with to serve our customers where they are. So uh when we go live with Viva Brooks, we'll be able to see what stores we're in and then we'll be able to track that on our Shopify account to see if we see an uplift in those areas. But I'm really really confident in the fact that we will see that because the customer wants to see Douise and if we can put it in a place which is really easy for them to get to then we'll definitely see a positive impact >> opportunity for pop-up stands and um uh when you're running your marathon uh could could there be a pop-up stand there saying um uh runnerproof jewelry? >> Yeah. No, definitely. I think um where it the the world is obviously worked in like cycles and shifts and like 5 years ago if you told a DTC brand that you need to show up in person they literally would have laughed you out the door. But where the world is shifting uh like acquisition costs are getting higher. It's getting uh so hard to acquire a customer now through like traditional channels. You have to be disruptive within the market and you have to do I always say like work to your strengths. What are your superpowers? So for us, like I mentioned, our superpower is being able to show up at a London marathon and say you can wear this jewelry. So it's figuring out what is your niche and what is your superpower and then really leaning into that and trying to be different to other players. >> And could you ever envision opening your own store? >> Yeah, I would absolutely love to have uh our own store. So I'm originally from Cardiff and I used to actually work at Pandora. Um, and it was such an incredible time for me because I learned so much about customer experience. And I felt like Pandora was such a a a strong part of everyone's like journey about their life and their chapters and birthdays and Christmases. And I would love to have a store. I probably would love to have a flagship store in Cardiff cuz I feel like it would be such a strong representative of like my journey, where I started. Um, and people in Wales love anything from Wales. So, um, I think they would love, uh, love a store there. And I think it would really >> And it wouldn't have to be very large, would it? >> No. Exactly. That's the great thing about jewelry is that you can cover a huge amount of um product in a really small surface area. So, yeah, you could have a little small small store. >> And so, when might we see the store opening in Cardiff, do you think? Where does that sit on your list of priorities? >> I would say that would be a 2027 uh priority. I think this year is all about wholesale, getting into all of those key key retailers, and then we can get an appetite for where's working, what's not working, and then really make decisions from there. >> How do you set out your priorities, and how important is that in a business that you're not trying to do too much? >> I think um have you ever read the book Traction? >> Yes. >> Yes. So, I um I absolutely love that book. And before that book, I would say that Douise was a bit of a mess. So if anyone hasn't read it, it has uh a few core principles that we live and breathe by. So you set um quarterly rocks, annually rocks and three year um threeyear rocks and the the effect effectively you choose three things to focus on each quarter and then that seeps down into the the team. So the company goals we always try to focus on three main things and then everything else is noise. I think where you are a business, you can you can really get caught up in what you should be doing, what you shouldn't be doing. You can get caught up in small things that take a lot of time and have minimal impact. I think one thing that we're learning is that marketing and acquisition has to align. Like you can't just keep spending money on marketing for it to not acquire sales or just to look cool. Like the ultimate goal of any business is to make money. So marketing marketing decisions have to be in line with that. But definitely implementing like an EOS system which is what is in traction has helped us like stay disciplined to what the three goals we're going to do. And that has allowed us to stay focused but also get things done without being busy fools cuz I think everyone is a I can definitely be a busy fool sometimes. And have you now got the the right leadership team to cope with growth because you've been achieving exponential growth and I think we'll be doing sort of uh 11 or 12 million a million turnover million pounds of turnover a month currently which is uh rapid growth. Yeah. >> Um are there any gaps in the team? You've talked about the guy that's come in to do the wholesale business sign more retailers. Where else do you need to develop the team do you think? I think um for us what we're finding with AI is that you can do more with less resource but making sure that the people who are within the team using AI and leveraging it to the full potential. For me, I think that the best thing that you need to focus on for business is foundations because you can have the best marketing, you can have the best Instagram, you can have the best product in the world, but ultimately if you can't get that product to your customer, you're not going to have a business. So for us, we have a really strong team in marketing. We have a really strong team in operations and now obviously with wholesale. I think um for us where we are looking to hire is our ecom side of it. Um Jack very much focuses on ecom, but I feel like if we took that off his plate, he could then be a real visionary for the business because that's his superpower. Um, but yeah, we we've got a strong leadership team and I think I'm I love developing people in the team to be able to become a leader because for me, I always thought that like I could never be a leader. I didn't feel like I had the skills. I didn't feel like I was someone that people would want to look up to. But it's just practice and it's just it's just making sure that you're doing things every day that feel uncomfortable and leading by example and showing people in the team that they do have the skill set within them. It's just about unleashing it and being able to lead in in their roles. >> How else do you get um help in developing your leadership skills? Olivia, do you have a um a coach or a mentor? >> Yes, so I have um I love mentors. I have a few mentors. Um, I have a public speaking coach because you wouldn't believe it, but 5 years ago, I could not talk in front of a camera. I had a private Instagram. I was a girl at university where you'd have to stand in front of literally 10 people and I would be sweating, shaking. I wouldn't know what to say. I was never taught it at school. Um, so that was a real skill that I wanted to develop. And I think with mentors is you I could have developed that skill on my own, but what you can do is you can get there so much faster if you if you're mentored by someone who's already done it. Um, so I have a public speaking coach. Um, we took investment from a guy called Steve Hwitt and he has been a huge business mentor for Jack and myself. Um, and again, Steve has taught us so much and I believe that the business would have got to where we are today without Steve. But what it has allowed us is to learn from his mistakes. You you grow a lot faster. You're able to um ask people who have been there, done that, if we should go down this angle or is it a waste of time? >> And Steve was the chief exec at Gym Shark. Yeah. What are the sort of can you pick out a couple of examples of things that he helped with that you might otherwise have made a mistake? >> I think for us it was um the the comes down to the the numbers like Steve always says the maths have to work and I think when this isn't my strong point but I'm learning more and more every day but what I think people get caught up in business is you need to have a healthy margin in order to run your business. Margins help you hire. They help you acquire customers. And we was when before Steve, we were spending way too much money on paid advertising. And >> £1,000 a customer. >> Yeah. Exactly. Um and I think what um he made us realize early on was that we do need to derisk from paid advertising and have a more sustainable idea for growth rather than just keep paying uh into Facebook. So that's one real practical thing. Like when we started it was probably at around 55 to 60% of our P&L and now it's it sits between like 30 and 40%. So that was a huge huge win for us. Um and it really changed the game for us. >> Uh Steve brought some investment with him. >> When did you um you talked about bootstrapping the business and doing it with very little money. >> Yeah. When did you know that it was right to um try and find an investor? >> We didn't really look for investment. It was kind of Do you know what? I think things in life are about good timing and a little bit of magic. And I think that Steve and the For now team came to us when we were we didn't really need it and we weren't expecting it. So, we had just had an incredible Black Friday. Um, and in e-commerce that is the biggest day of the year. Um, >> can you remember what your sales were on that day? >> I think we had done in that day we did more sales on that day than we did the whole entire first year of trading. >> Wow. >> So, we were like, "Oh my goodness, this business is getting somewhere." And going back to like the foundations is we knew that we had never done this before. So we were like we want to speak to people and surround ourselves with people who can guide us in the right direction. And I think at that moment it would have been really easy to just take all the money out of the business, spend it on a crazy car and like just be a bit reckless and have a load of fun. But we knew that we wanted to build something that we were really proud of and we wanted it to be a legacy and really turn it into a brand. So we started speaking to for now we were just um my friend used to work at uh Gym Shark and he basically introduced us and said uh they've just left Gym Shark and they've set up an advisory company and we in the beginning we were just starting on with advisory and we were just honestly just getting them with help and advice and then the relationship developed really positively and then Steve actually said would you be looking for investment and originally We said no. And that is uh probably why we got the investment because I think it's always good to get money when you're not looking. Playing hard to get. >> Yes. Exactly. Um and you obviously know Steve, he's very a hard man to say no to. Um so yeah, it was it was a the right timing, right place. Um and a little bit of magic >> and helped in terms of funding some of the growth, but it wasn't just about the money. It was getting Steve and his team and the help and advice. >> Yeah, exactly. I think I think it can be a bit of a misconception with money these days and fundraising and people find it quite like sexy and cool to talk about raising loads of money, but I honestly think that it's about working with the right people and I don't think you should take cash or capital from someone who's not going to have a positive impact on your business more than just financially. talk a little bit more about the product development and uh how many SKUs you're going to end up with and where's the limit and what might that look like in five years time. >> I think um what's really interesting about my story is that when um I first started we invested maybe £1,000 into stock and I had no idea what a skew was. I had no idea what a barcode was. I had no idea what a range was meant to look like. and I genuinely just chose product that I liked off the shelf from the supplier because I didn't even know how to design or had no design skills. Um, and what's incredible is that some of the pieces that I bought 5 years ago are still some of our bestselling pieces today, like the paper click necklace, the essentials necklace. So, I think for us, our product strategy has never really deviated from that too much because I think it's all about that gut feel of what you think is going to work. And what I would say that I'm really good at is identifying gaps of like what I want and what our customers want. So, we were just in Hong Kong. Um, we went to a jewelry show. Um, and that for me is like number one tip. If you're going into a consumer product, get yourself to a show. um that they do them in Vegas, they do them in China. Um and I know that is a financial cost, but the the way your business would benefit from being in person where the product gets made is absolutely phenomenal. Like cannot recommend it enough. So, we just did three days at the jewelry show in Hong Kong, met um we did nine factory tours. Um so, we're constantly looking to develop our product and our supply chain. Um, I always think with product it's way easier if you sell something that someone actually wants to buy rather than trying to force them. >> And to what extent have you copied other ideas in jewelry from elsewhere and then um made them yours? >> I think with jewelry, what's the hardest part about jewelry is that like you can't really reinvent the wheel. A chain that I could wear today like a lux tennis bracelet has probably been around for like 50 years, 60 years. So what we try and do is not reinvent the wheel. Um but make sure that we are able to offer timeless pieces to our customers but with a DOE twist or a DOE modernization. I would say like a hoop earring. You can't really make a hoop earring in too many different ways. Um, but it's making sure that you're able to stand out with your pricing and your quality and your branding because that's what makes people want to buy from you versus other people. >> Is there an international opportunity for Dlouise? >> If you'd asked me this last year, I would say that it was all about the US. So obviously Trump had other ideas with um the tariffs and I think what has happened. It it was a crazy time for us cuz 40% of our business was in the US and pretty much overnight that got totally shut down as he put the tariffs up to 200 300% I can't remember the the exact figure. Um which fortunately apparently we're going to get a refund for now. So that would be that would be great on the P&L. Um so yeah we um in that time we were doing really really well in the US and it was growing month on month but with so much political changes and consumer confidence that has um sort of flatlined this year. But what I think is so important to reframe that is we are not looking to pull out of the US because we think that if we stand tall and literally stay there that if we weather the storm we're going to come out on top once it's all over. >> And so how did you cope with that and what changes did you make so that you um still had a US business? >> It was very challenging to be really honest. it like when I know that there's lots of horror stories of people where their their stock was literally on a boat ready to to land in the US and their business has gone bust because they can't afford the tariffs. Um for us fortunately we had stock there which was amazing. Um so we didn't have to bring anything in for maybe 2 or 3 months. But for me I think the most uh the most challenging thing was like the uncertainty. So where you're looking for growth of of your top line and you see it in one market, it can be a real uh real weird situation where you you have to pivot so quickly. And I think that is one skill that I have learned is about being resilient and being um so able to be flexible and agile and pivot when when the business needs you to. Um like I think you can get really emotional about it. You could say why me? Why is this happening? But at the end of the day, it's like, okay, you have to dig deep now. Like, what can I control in this situation? How can we get through this US uh situation? How can we weather the storm? Um, and it's always about moving forward and and getting through it versus uh having that vict victim >> and then opportunities in other international countries. >> Yes. So because um because of all the uh uncertainty in the US, we have pivoted into um different countries, the UAE was booming prior to this new political change. Um but it's still doing well there. So I think lots of people are at home, a bit like um during lockdown when people are at home when they were buying things. Um so we've seen a a strong demand in the UAE, which we're going to definitely expand on. Um and Europe is is always been something that we want to tackle. Um, and it naturally has a pull there. So, I think it's just about leaning into that more. Um, I think as well we could do really well in the wholesale market in the EU. Um, because obviously they it's a lot sunnier there. People are on holiday more. Um so it's figuring out um our our core markets hopefully after all of the political political changes turn >> and your message and advice to any other founder or entrepreneur facing a um a business crisis like tariffs or a a war zone. What would it be? I would say that you have a choice in that moment whether you want the story to define you or if you want to come back from it. And I think most people think that resilient people are just resilient from birth. And I have done a lot of research on resilience and some people um are dandelions. And if you think about a dandelion, it shows up everywhere on the in the UK. like it is on every grass, it is on every patch and they never die. They get stood on all day every day. Um, and then if you think about an orchid, an orchid is a lot harder to look after. I can never personally keep one alive. But if you give the orchid the right conditions, it does survive. And I think that is so true about people. So lots of people, you can learn to be resilient. It's a skill. You're not just born with it. Yes, you have the dandelions and the orchids, but it's about learning, okay, how can I be a bit more of a dandelion? How can I make sure that my environment is allowing me to be resilient? And I think that comes from the people that you surround yourself with and making sure that you are being supported and listened to. Um, and yeah, it's all about pushing through and and coming back from it. Do you have a vision of what Dlouise will look like in the future in five or 10 years time? >> For me, Dlouise has always been way more than just a jewelry brand. I think we have incredible product, incredible customer service, and incredible quality. And that is something that I want to hold on to for the next 10, 20 years. But for me, it's the bigger picture. It's what impact am I having on people? I want to inspire people that no matter what happens to you in life, you do have a choice on what happens next. And I think that the message is so powerful of the brand that people are buying into that. And I think for me, if I could just make one person's life more positive or they can look at me and think, well, she did that so I can do that too. That is for me what success is. Many entrepreneurs struggle with work life balance, staying healthy, uh doing some sport. What are your tips there? >> I think that it is hard. I think as well acknowledging that it is hard and acknowledging as well that the pendulum sometimes does have to swing in the other direction and sometimes your business requires more of you and sometimes you can also then step back a little bit. I think creating systems in your life every single day that allow you to be disciplined and don't go off feeling. So I think if you if I only went to the gym when I felt like it, I would never go to the gym. But I think it's allowing yourself systems in place to never fail. So for example, this is just a really small thing. So if I know that I want to go to the gym the next day, I will put out my clothes the night before. So when I wake up in the morning, I see my gym clothes. I'm like, I need to put them on and go to the gym. >> You have to go. >> Yeah. Exactly. So I think it's like small little things, systems, and you can do every single day that helps you maintain that momentum cuz I think momentum is so important in life and business. >> Any other system that you use? >> I always say don't let uh two things happen like simultaneously. So say if I miss one gym day, you have to go the next day. or if you have one bad meal, you have to have a salad the next meal. So, I think it's making sure with that momentum is that it doesn't have a negative momentum as well because it's so easy when you're like if you miss one day, I know for myself I'm like, "Oh, I can easily miss another day." So, making sure back to back don't miss. >> And you're doing a marathon this year. >> I am. Yes. >> Does that help having a setting a goal and then setting out a training plan? >> Yeah. I would say that I am someone who loves routine. I'm a very type A personality. So, every single Sunday I set out my week and what I'm going to do. And it's about making sure that when things are important to you that you carve out time to do them. So, with my London marathon training, it might mean that if I have to do a long run on the weekend, I might have to sacrifice having some fun that weekend or might have to sacrifice seeing a friend. But it I know that it's just for a season and it's not forever. And I think with the business and the marathon, I know that if I have a really long run on the weekend, maybe I can't go to every meeting or photo shoot the following week. So, I think it's about it's a give and a take and it's a push and a pull and business es and flows and it's all about seasons. And looking back over the five years so far, what's been the um the biggest mistake you've made that other entrepreneurs should avoid? >> I think for me the biggest mistake that I made was believing that I couldn't do it. So I very much thought that I was never going to be someone who had a business, was an entrepreneur. And what I've learned over the last 5 years is that you can do anything that you set your mind to. And your brain is so powerful. And you can choose to use that power in a negative way or a positive way. And self-belief is so important. And if you think that your business can do 10 million, double it, triple it. I think shoot for the stars because we can always try and contain ourselves to this box. But honestly, if you just believe in yourself, you can achieve anything. >> Great advice. And finally, two more tips that you'd give to fellow founders that are are scaling their business right now. >> I would say the biggest tip for me to remain focused is focus on my input. So, every day I write down three things that will mean that I have a successful day. And no matter what hits me throughout the day, if I've done those three things, I can go and sleep easy at night is just a a practical tip. And the second one I would be ask for help. I would ask people who you come across in life to help you. That could be on Instagram, that can be on LinkedIn. Um because you'll be so surprised about how many people actually want to help your journey and help your success. And it's just you're one conversation away from a big big opportunity. >> Olivia, thank you so much. Really enjoyed that. I've learned a lot. >> Good. Thank you. >> Thank you for listening to me, Richard Harpin, talking to Olivia Jenkins from Dlouise on the Business Leader podcast. Please subscribe on your podcast app and visit our businessleer website www.busleer.co.uk UK where you can sign up to our weekly newsletter and find out about how business leader can help your