that life does not begin from the day you are named. Life begins from the day you're formed. >> Wow. >> And it's the mother that is the hub of formation. Wow. And um if you're wounded in the womb, you most likely are going to live a broken life. Wow. And this is why the Bible says, in my mother's womb, I was fashioned in iniquity. The womb is a place of fashioning. The womb is a place of crafting. The womb is a place of formation, but it is also the place where information is transferred. It is a place where you are wired um to be whoever you're going to be while you're on earth. So, I need us to take the mother away from just all the woman lied to a man who complains all the time to actually seeing her as a model of the spirit that determines the quality of beings that are released in times and seasons. That being said, there I believe God is as a father and God is a mother. Because the Bible says, male and female created he them and he made in his image and his likeness. So, a mother is a likeness of God. >> Wow. It's It's It's an operation of the spirit of God. That's what it means to be a mother. And um there are many people who are female, but actually are not mothers. They have the capacity to carry babies, but they do not have the spirit of motherhood. >> Wow. There are many people who have risen in leadership um even in the church, but and they are female leaders, but are not mothers over generations. And it's because nobody really teaches about the office of a mother. And wherever there is ignorance, darkness thrives. And I believe in the ignorance about the office of mothering, that's where the enemy has been able to take advantage of that strength. Because just because you don't know that you have the capacity to doesn't mean the enemy will not take advantage of and the grace. So, many of these gifts and graces have been taken advantage of. One of the reasons why is because after the fall, the woman became very much emotional. Wow. >> You know, and became governed a lot by her emotions, which really are just an influence of environmental pressure. You know, and when a woman, whether anointed, saved, or not, um does not understand how to balance the difference between pressure and reality and how to bring governance to the gate of her soul, she can become a tool through which Satan begins to corrupt generations that come out of her. Because it's the same way that a woman, if she does not use like medical intervention to stop herself from getting pregnant, she can get pregnant. Even women that are raped get pregnant. It's the same way that because the mother is a womb, irrespective of whether or not she agrees to fertilization, she's constantly being fertilized whether or not she knows it. >> Wow. And she is producing after her own kind, the kind of brokenness, the kind of shame, the kind of pain. And so, many people have been born with wounds that came from the womb that created them. And so, mother wound is not from when a woman leaves her child at the doorstep of an uh of of a church. That's not when the mother wound starts. It actually starts in the womb. Wow. What was the state of the woman while she was incubating the child? And so, when you ever look at it in ministry, in businesses, in mentorship, there are many women who answered their call to be leaders, but have not answered the need to be healed. And so, they are leading and raising people while they are bleeding and they are wounded and they are broken at the same time. Good intentions to birth, but wrong disposition that breaks. And that's what happens a lot of times. And so, in scriptures, we see different mothers who actually wounded their children. Um one of the women we we can talk about is um Herodias who asked her daughter to ask for the head of John the Baptist. She was already grieved by John the Baptist and angry at him. And when she told her daughter to use her daughter's gift and grace and favor to actually cut down someone who was supposed to propagate the gospel, she thought she was doing something good. And that's one of the things we see in mother wounds. It begins with women who have not learned to heal and forgive. And when they do not have the necessary influence and power to take down those who they call their enemies, they use their children as tools. And that girl probably thought she was on a mission to do something great because it came from someone who she greatly admired. But she did not understand that she was being used to forever and ever be reminded as one who took down one of the greatest of the kingdom. And whether or not she saw it in that time, that was a major wound. It was a wound to the possibility of her ever being in the good records of God. It was a wound to her gift, her grace, and her favor. And that's one of the things that happened um to many people. Another thing you can talk about as mother wounds in scripture, you know, um I spoke about this not so long ago about the women who eat their babies. Wow. And the Bible says there was a famine in Samaria and because the people needed We needed to survive, they said, "Let's eat my child and then after we eat my baby, we'll eat your baby." How many women are doing that today? Wow. And many of them are actually consuming um what should have been the strength of their children, the grace of their children because they need to survive. I think that this is one of the deepest one mother wounds that can happen. When you finally wake up and you arrive at the liberty that comes from the blood of Jesus and you realize my mother still took something away from me because she needed to survive her her pain, her brokenness, and the famine of her time. And many mothers have done this to their children. They have taken away the liberty to love from their children because they went through the captivity of brokenheartedness in their marriages. Wow. And they transferred this to their babies. And they call it a culture and a mindset. Many women have taken away um the the the the reality of financial liberty from their children because of the way they govern their finances and the children grew up thinking, "Oh, the only way to make money is to follow men or money doesn't really matter more. Just spending money is meant for spending." And so, that mindset took from the children because the mothers were trying to survive their own famine. So, many times as mothers, we forget the power we have and Naomi almost missed it. When she lost her two sons and her husbands, she was about to wound Ruth because she got into a place of independence. >> Wow. And she wanted to just dine in her brokenness. And she said, "Don't call me Naomi anymore. Call me bitterness. Call me Mara." And she was renaming and trying to redefine her office as a mother. But she did not know that what she was doing was handing the keys to her womb over to Satan. And by the mercy of God, because she decided to make the journey back to Bethlehem, which is the house of bread, the house of the word, and the house of revelation, she then became the door that saved Ruth and saved generations and made her a part of the lineage of Jesus. So, many um mothers have And mothers are marked by the symbol of sacrifice. So, many times you think, "Oh, a woman is sacrificial. They can never be anything like a mother wound." I don't think any mother actually sets out to hurt their child. But I think many mothers are uneducated about being healed and uneducated about the power that they have as sitting wombs and active wombs that actually curate the future of their kids. So, as we talk about mother wounds, I think we should talk about the healing of mothers. >> Yes, for sure. You know, kind of like the journey that Naomi made to Bethlehem. And as the mothers are healed, their mindset about survival begins to change. >> Wow. So, the same person that said, "Go back to your father's house" is the same person that said to Ruth, "Go lay at the feet of Boaz." Wow. So, the mother that hurts can also be the mother that redeems. She just needs to go back to the house of bread. And when she does that, the generations also can be healed. Wow. Ooh. That one is good. That is is is so good. And you know, it's interesting, you know, what you spoke about the office of a mother. Um intrigued to know what do you believe spiritual mothering looks like in this hour? Because we've obviously I'm I'm know you was referring to natural mothers and spiritual mothers, but I feel there's many spiritual fathers. I think there's many people who go on platforms and they will reference who their spiritual father is. But I don't actually often see many people who would honor their spiritual mother or even acknowledge they have a spiritual mother. And I would love to know, especially for my generation, um the generation that very much has been fatherless, so told to look for spiritual fathers, Mhm. but never recognize they have mother wounds, so they never really focused on looking for spiritual mothers. What is What What do you What does that look like in this hour in terms of spiritual mothering? Mhm. Haley. Yeah. >> >> Where you digging out all these questions from? Listen, I I I've got you, so I'm like, I need to pull from the well. Let me pull. Because you're challenging me to answer questions that, like I said, people don't ask. >> Yeah. People don't ask about mothers and mothering and you know, the church and yeah, stuff like that. Um but I believe that every time that God begins to have conversations like this that you're having with me about mothers, it's because a new day is about to be born. Amen. It started in Genesis. God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone." And I teach this all the time about the word for good is the Hebrew word tov, which means for something to have the inherent ability to regenerate the will of God through time without the intervention of God at every point in time. So, um God's answer to things not being good was that he gave a woman. Mhm. And the woman was marked by her womb. And so, basically, he was saying whatever commission I have given to Adam, the only way that humanity will be able to replicate it in the future is when there's a mother. Mhm. I'm saying this because I feel like this question you're asking me is opening multiple doors in the spirit for spiritual mothers to be born. >> Amen. Um spiritual motherhood looks like Judges 5, when Deborah began to tell her story. And she said, um Israel did not come to his deliverance until I arose. I arose a mother in Israel. I believe that Israel had a prophet or prophets. She was a prophetess. The Bible also records that she was the life of wife of Lapidoth. She was a judge. But the office of the judge, the office of the prophet, and the office of the wife did not deliver Israel. Wow. Wow. >> It was the office of the mother. Wow. You know, and we have all those things in the church today, and many women are doing those things. They're prophetesses, they're apostles, they're pastors, they're judges, they're rulers, you know, they're wives, they teach about marriage ministry. But that wasn't what brought Israel out. Wow. It was spiritual motherhood that did. And so, what did that look like? For Deborah, it looked like her coming out of her palm tree. You know, the palm tree is a place of sustenance, is a place of covering, is a place of, you know, your strength, but she had to come out of that. To be an accurate spiritual mother, you must be willing to sacrifice your safety for the rise of a generation. >> Wow. And I feel like as mothers, if we're still in that place where we're trying to be accurate and right all the time, you don't want somebody to get upset with you because you had to take a decision or you had to say something, you're still risking that generation. Wow. >> I think spiritual motherhood looks like women that are bold enough to say, "This is what the spirit of God demands at this time." And must be willing to risk their safety for the safety of a generation. Also, spiritual motherhood looks like women that have carefully curated their voices and stewarded the integrity of their voice. Because Deborah called for Barak, and I say to you, an army general does not answer a woman simply because she's a prophetess. He answers her because she has a track record Mhm. of accuracy, integrity, strength, and all of that. Now, in Deborah calling for Barak began the chain reaction of her motherhood over Israel. I believe that spiritual motherhood in this season is yet, yes, having a voice that has been stewarded, but also having a voice that is courageous enough to call for the people in authority and to make an accurate, um demand of different from different kinds of leadership that have the ability to change the tides of our time. Um in Deborah doing that, you might have thought, "Big deal, you know, she's just doing her business." But what Deborah was doing was awakening Jael in the in the tent of her husband. Jael that eventually struck Sisera with the tent peg and the hammer. She was not even an Israelite. She was the wife of Heber the Kenite, who was an enemy to the children of Israel. Wow. So, her rising to rally a general was mothering somebody who was not even a believer. Wow. There are people that think spiritual motherhood is just getting on the call and saying, "Hey, how are you today? Are you sure your husband? Hey, that's these men, eh? You must know that." No, that's not necessarily what it is. Actually taking your position, going into the places that others would not dare to go, having the courage to make a call that others would not risk themselves to make is actually educating a generation on who they're supposed to be and how they're supposed to be. Mhm. Spiritual motherhood looks like getting in line, being on the forefront of the battle when others are like, "That's not where a woman should be." I believe that the biggest way you can educate your child on who they're called to be is to be what you're trying to tell them to be. >> Mhm. And that was exactly what Deborah did. She did not just say, "Let the tribes come together and fight." She's like, "I'm going to go with you. I'm going to fight. I'm going to be standing right there." If for any reason you ever wonder if it can be done, look at me. I was once a prophetess, but I'm standing with a sword. I may not be the one that takes down the head of the giant, but just standing is a sign to you that you can. Wow. Spiritual motherhood looks like strategy. Wow. Being able to say, "Hey, go to the river Kishon, climb up this pathway, go this way." Being able to download from heaven the strategies and solutions that a generation needs, not just saying, "I'm here for you." What does here for you look like? Being able to galvanize to action, that's what spiritual motherhood looks like. But lastly, spiritual motherhood looks like shared glory. When Deborah recorded what happened, she did not just sing her praises. She said, "I didn't kill Sisera. Jael did." Wow. >> You know, and whenever mothers are unwilling to give flowers to the next generation, that's when mistrust comes in. That's when pain comes in, grief comes in. And I feel like spiritual motherhood looks like the ability of mothers to recognize the role that everyone plays. >> So good. She said, "Barak did this, the armies did this, this one. However, the person that killed the enemy was Jael. It wasn't me." And I think that that's part of what's going to heal the next generation when they know that they are not just seen as a tool or as servants, >> Yeah, so good. >> but they're recognized for the strength that they bring to the battle. This is so good. I don't even know what to say. I'm even somewhat getting emotional, I don't even know why, but um it's I was it's it's prophetic. This is left definitely the Holy Spirit because I was going to ask how do we mend the gap between a generation that may feel fatherless and motherless? Because I know many orphaned Christians. I know many believers in my generation who feel like they cannot trust leaders, cannot trust mothers, fathers. What is that process looking like to heal on both sides? Because I also believe there's many leaders who have vowed they will never mother or father again. So, there's >> True. there's two. There's there's the generation that believes "I don't believe in spiritual mothers, I don't believe in spiritual fathers." And then there's also the generation that doesn't believe in spiritual children. Mhm. So, there's pain on both sides, and I would I would love you to speak into that. I believe the reason why we're at that point in time is because of the prophecy in Joel. You know, part of what the Lord spoke about is the restoring the hearts of the fathers to the sons and the hearts of the sons to the fathers. It's part of the prophecies about the last days. And that mending is not just a bridge, but it's a weapon. Um because you're bringing the strategy and the strength of two generations together to take down ancient giants. >> Wow. And that's the way it's going to happen. Um so, that's why the enemy has really, really, like, just wounded, not just the children, like you said, parents. I mean, there was a time when I said to myself, "I'm not doing this anymore. If this is what I'm going to get for years of sacrifice and dedication and praying and intercession over people, if this is what I'm going to get, then I'm done. I'm just going to chase after my salvation and make it to heaven cuz this is too painful." But then I realized that in heaven, I'm not going to be graded simply because I did mighty works, but part of my reward is that I was a mother over a generation. So, I realized that it wasn't the people hurting me, it was Satan hurting the people to hurt me so that I could give up a huge aspect of my calling. So, now I mother by faith. I don't do it by the facts. I don't do it by the people's reactions or their inability to see the value of what I'm bringing. I do it by faith. You know, um and I feel like that's part of what's going to heal the relationship. Um we need to be a generation full of faith. We're too full of facts. Mhm. You know, oh, he did this, she did this, he didn't say that, he didn't say this. All those facts are correct. Nobody's perfect. There's no perfect mother, there's no perfect father. We speak about Elijah being Elisha's father, but Elijah kept telling Elisha, "Go back." Elijah was willing to leave with his mantle. What kind of father is that? Do you understand what I'm talking about? He kept saying, "Go back." He was willing to disappear and leave them without a replication of what he carried. That was the man Elijah was. We keep talking about, you know, fathers and mothers. Naomi kept telling Ruth, "Go back." She was willing to leave her broken girl and then go to Bethlehem herself. That was the kind of what At the end of the day, you realize that these people did not arrive at being the epic figures of fatherhood and motherhood that we know them to be today. If they didn't have children of faith that followed them irrespective of It was not actually them that ended up, you know, giving themselves the honor. It was the relentless pursuit of their seed that said, "Listen, even when you forget who you are as a father, I remember you for who you made me to be. I will follow till the end." And that's part of the things that need to be restored. Faith in the commission, faith in the covenant, faith in the instruction that God gave on who to follow, not what pain rewires you to believe about why you are following. Um I think that the healing is going to come back when both parties go back to the revelation of God. It's not the revelation of self, but the revelation of God. There are people I've ended relationships with based on what happened in the moment. And as God begins to grow me and recultivate me, I start to realize that my decision was wrong. It was born out of the limitation of emotions and born out of the noise of multiple voices. And my lenses became clouded and I stopped seeing the people through the eyes of covenant. I started seeing them through the eyes of the disappointments of other people that then multiplied my own disappointment. And I realized I missed it. And every time I missed it, I lost time. I wasted time. I wasted resources. And things that could have shortened and quickened my journey, I missed it all. So, when things like that happen, what do I do? I repent. I go back to God and I repent. I apologize to the Lord because it's not the person I disappointed. It was God. God is the originator of every covenant relationship. So, I I feel like for there to be healing, those relationships have to be born from revelation. There are many people that reach out to me and say, "Hey, mentor me." And I say, "No." And I say no not because they are not powerful. Powerful, great people doing great things across the world. But whenever purpose is not known, abuse is inevitable. I don't I don't want to be part of a person's story of brokenness because I could not discern what my role was in their lives. And I don't want anybody to break me because I end up feeling dishonored and abused because that happens. So, I go back to God to say, "What exactly is this about? And what am I supposed to do in this person's life?" That revelation on both sides becomes the government of the relationship so that they are able to discern their seasons and they are able to do the will of God. So, if this healing will happen, everybody just needs to go back to being spiritual. So good. And stop judging ourselves by the flesh, but by not the hearing of the ears, the seeing of the eyes, but by the spirit of God. That's where forgiveness dwells, honor dwells, faithfulness dwells, diligence dwells. It dwells in the revelation of the will of the spirit of God. That's only how the healing can happen. Wow. I really believe that this segment specifically is going to speak to a lot of people. It's spoken to me. Um there is a lot of people who need that reminder of just what can reconciliation looks like, but ultimately that there is two parties that are also wounded in this time. And I I would have never actually thought that that Joel prophecy was an attack more or less. Like the fact that there was prophecy released of restoration that the enemy was going to attack it cuz it's crazy because you do see it like never before in this hour. And you know, just as we more or less round up. Um I've got two more questions for you. Um >> Sorry. Can I interrupt? >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And you talked so fabulously about mothers. And I believe this is why God is making the call for battle for Britain. Yeah. And mantle of Deborah is partnering prayer storm, which just feels like Deborah partnering with Barack as far as I'm concerned. >> That's deep. That's a >> to save Israel. And I think that this is a strategy for national deliverance. And that's why we're calling um for mothers. I'm calling for women. I'm calling for um female leaders. It may be a woman who leads a book club or a woman who leads a ministry or a woman who just leads women who bake. You're just a woman and you have influence on any level. You could just be a mother or a nursery school teacher. Whatever it is, I'm calling for these women to partner with the mantle of Deborah to rise up as Deborah's to rally 10,000 women to battle for Britain. Amen. And it's going to hold in Manchester from the 21st to the 23rd. I believe that we need to loan God our wombs again as women and cry out for the destiny of a nation. Wow. I would have never thought I You'd just be spinning me, Apostle Lucy Man. Like you were spinning me. I would have never thought what you just said, Barack and Deborah. Like