George tibell Keith Fields welcome to acquiring minds nice to be here good to be here George and Keith you acquired an existing franchise business in the commercial cleaning space so janitorial it was a rocky transition but you are optimistic about the future big aspirations let's get right into it George would you start us off with some background on you please then Keith we'll go to you absolutely happy to be here well my background is a little bit unique as you can hear I I I do joke a lot where I spoke with people from Western New York that uh my accent is not really from uh from locally here I'm originally from Romania I was born in Bucharest in Romania and uh moved to uh to Brussels to Belgium my both of my parents uh had a military background we moved a lot as kids and uh we I did my high school in Brussels in French and play tennis my entire childhood and I got a division one scholarship uh to the US uh and I moved to Buffalo New York of all places uh and um started playing college and I also uh did my background in finance I I I went into for a finance background um got injured several times uh you know with my tennis had a bad back and uh own a painting franchise in college uh College Pro painters was one of the the painting I the the the business I owned for for about a year uh and pursued a career in banking I uh I worked in wealth management for about three three and a half years uh lived in the Caribbean uh where I work for a private Swiss bank uh moved there with my wife she was there for a med school and came back got my second degree in a quantitative Finance Financial mathematics um um worked my Visa up and worked for MNT bank which is a Fortune 500 it's headquartered in Buffalo New York and worked there for about five years in Risk Management uh in model validation Quant and got my green card and uh that lud me to uh to to kind of the the search of last year so where I quit my uh my uh my banking job and uh ventured in uh in the story we're gonna which we're gonna be leading today so beautiful thanks George Keith yeah similar to George uh not from Buffalo but uh call it home now I grew up in Tennessee uh small small town outside of Nashville uh spent four years in the Marine Corps right after high school and uh moved to Buffalo for college at the University of Buffalo uh that's where George and I met um finance class and uh we've kind of stuck together throughout the you know his time apart uh going to different countries and and traveling all over um during that time I was uh spent about five years in corporate banking uh doing some different things with air rail empow uh and then got an opportunity to work for a self- storage Reit um spent about 5 years there uh doing several different things um Revenue management Business Development uh and then left as a the director of Acquisitions uh so working on the acquisition side uh a little bit familiar kind of uh as we moved into the the ETA space and uh our company actually uh the company that I worked for got acquired uh early 2023 and uh that made my decision pretty easy to to move on to the next thing uh and we hit the ground running from there so this decision um you guys have known each other for years I'm I'm I'm guessing I'm imagining you know beers at the at you know in your dorm rooms in college scheming about what entrepreneurial venture you'd eventually do is it one of these and that finally came to fruition or not NE not necessarily not really how did you decide to partner how did you decide to choose this as the business opportunity you would pursue I would go ahead I it definitely wasn't beers um you know for for us we uh we were a little bit older going to college uh we were there for for a reason um you know and and we actually got put in a group uh together uh a finance class and um um we just kind of connected we both uh were shutting down the library every night uh studying working hard and uh you know we took a a class together and said uh you know as a finance class we said this is what we want to do uh we just got to figure out how to do it and from there once we graduated uh on and off for the last decade we've had business ventures together individually uh most not successful successful um and so you know it was it was an attraction through work uh you know work ethic and uh just seeing each other grind uh a lot of the same energy and same goals and aspirations I love it here I here I was suggesting that you guys were partying through college drunk talking about taking over the world but in fact you were burning the midw night oil at the library and that's what Drew you together yeah and and I think will one thing is H when we were in college kind of going towards the end of our you know senior year our I would say our aspiration was to to to to work on that corporate ladder right we had high you know I remember we took a financial reporting analysis you know class together we're like wow this looks so interesting you know analyzing financial statements going in and so our kind of you know Vision there uh was to you know work the corpor ladder be successful and and and climb as fast as we can on you know on the finance world that we were preparing for uh that Chang change I would say in the first couple of years after you know being in it and actually exploring you know the the the the corporate uh the corporate lifestyle and you know our ambition hasn't changed but our focus and our you know uh identifying what's important to us changed in that you know last decade that that that we we uh we uh we climb yeah we we progress towards so well that that's a great um that's a great kind of way to put it ambition is the same it's just now the vision of how to manifest that ambition is is different what did you not like about corporate or why why did the the path forward not stay going on a corporate career which really had turned you on initially when when you when you do everything right right and you become very successful at the job right we we climbed the the titles very fast the income was going up right and we got to you know VP SVP roles right fairly quick in that mid-30s and we were looking you know on paper we were extremely successful right everyone around us you know was very you know proud of our accomplishments but the more we were on this path and I just speak for myself I I know Keith is kind of felt the same way was the unfulfillment was getting wor worse and worse right like I remember just driving from work and just looking back and saying you know this is not there's no intrinsic motivation there's no fulfillment and I'm and and then you know it helped you know I was surrounding myself with higher level executive that are you know many many years ahead of me and I was looking at their you know day-to-day and I was looking at their lifestyle and there was nothing there that you know attracted me to to that lifestyle and you know when when those things conflict right when when you're doing everything you're your the results are there but then you know the the level of satisfaction and motivation almost decreases gradually there's a problem and you have to change something you know so that's kind of my my take on it Keith was your experience the same yeah it's it's similar um you know for me uh we George and I we push ourselves physically we work out hard uh we you know we work hard in general and uh I just kind of looked at it internally and said you know I want to know what I'm made of uh I want to know what I can do and what I'm capable of and uh I knew that I wasn't able to push the limits where I was at um you know in the corporate world and uh so that's that was one of the big motivators for me um you know I also think I have a little bit of a problem with authority um you know being told what to do when to do how to do it um now that doesn't change necessarily you're at the mercy of customers and and your employees and everything so it's it's a bit different um but you have a lot more autonomy and control uh where we're at now and so uh it's definitely the best decision I ever made um making that transition and uh yeah it was just uh in internal had to to push myself more and and find that challenge and so you didn't think even though you guys were pushing hard that's why you were successful relatively early young getting to high rungs of the ladder uh Keith you you didn't feel like it was you felt like the job didn't push you as hard as you wanted to be pushed or um it was it was not not enough Edge to it yeah you know I I really loved what I do es did in the the real estate space um but you know being in that corporate ladder uh you're always up against some kind of limitation uh you know uh there's you're not always graded on the merits right it's what's in the budget to allow you to do the next thing it's who's in the role to allow you to step into that next role uh so you know those limitations uh I just really wanted to take the guard rails off and and be able to to go in any direction that I wanted all right well spoken like an entrepreneur and George back to you uh what you said about the looking ahead at the people who are above you on the corporate ladder and not actually wanting what they have either professionally or personally lifestyle wise I've heard that many times very in a very recent interview which will have aired just a week or so before this one with Mike day said the same thing he was an engineer at Boeing um loved his time there respect the organization his colleagues but as he looked he was he was mid-40s so he was a little bit further on I think than you guys um and it's one of and and he wasn't the first person that I heard say this is this is a this is a pattern look at you know you know you ask yourself where I am how do I feel about what I'm doing and so on and then Part B of that question is and and do I even want what future 10 years in this on this path looks like and and you and you have a model right ahead of you your boss or your boss's boss or whatever and if that ain't pretty or if it's just not what you want then um that's usually a a further sign to to change things up so um great guys um and maybe just an example or two of other business ventures things you've gotten into in these in these intervening years I'll uh I'll start with a very unsuccessful website that we we were trying to uh to start you know and this this I think this was a great lesson for us because we we knew very little about you know building a website you know you know and just and just going into a field that you know we saw the opportunity you know was I think I believe was a local Marketplace that we're trying to build you know we the need was there but un seeing the need and then executing on on it it's just they're two different things right and then we realized very early on that you know you you need more execution than than than than the vision and that the big picture right and that was a that was a huge lesson for us where we spend you know I would say a couple months uh and some funds there where where we try to to to build something that we really weren't you know technically prepared for it so so that was that was one thing that I kept in mind and I I'll let Keith bring the other one we've had a few real estate Ventures that that worked out um you know on my side I I was involved in a property preservation construction company had uh ownership in that um shortly after the the 2008 so it was around 2010 11 um you know these bank owned properties need maintained um inspections things like that so uh had a little bit of a business there uh and then exited um George also had a a painting franchise in the past um you know I I got into flipping before uh it got popular on TV uh you once it uh got really competitive there decided to move out so we've done several different things over years uh but it's always been half in half out you know maintaining those corporate jobs while we're doing it um so they were great lessons but uh we we didn't go fully in until uh 2023 and I think will this is such an important point is while we were you know having our corporate you know jobs and we kept you know our vision and our our our goals you know we I would say we'll get hot and cold several times throughout the year right where we're basically you know starting several Ventures but it was we realized that you know you the only way to actually you know move forward is to go all in in in in our next venture and this is exactly what we did with you know last year when we decided and we we saw the is we saw the opportunity and we didn't let go and I think there were you know some reasons for us to you know back up or just look for you know a different size business there was there was a lot of other things we could have done but the last decade of just being you know in that middle right and just you know having our aspirations and our goals right and not really it it made us you know uh take the decision last year so that was you know that's an important point I think and I I always advise people to just you know it's very difficult when you when you you know there's a saying is what what stands behind a great life and it's a good life right like you know so for so far for us we had we had that good life you know going on and it's very challenging when you have you know that good life to actually you know go on and and you know take a take a leap of fth and and hopefully experience that great life they were great uh I do agree that that is a great um point or Insight that it took kind of going all in you feel like the recipe for really finally getting something off the ground or getting something material moving is was going all in burning the boats is my my favorite uh term of term of art when it comes to that College Pro painters George before we got to get off your backstory here and get into the meat of the story but I just can't let that go cuz that one has come up a number of times with other guests this is the national Painting Company it's a franchise and what it does is it gives ambitious entrepreneurial college students an opportunity to run their own small business in painting right this is the one yes yes sir that's the one yes and you feel and would you recommend that well I don't think anybody in actually people are listening who are in college so what what you say to them I I I'll give you a little bit of backstory so I uh you know in uh I was a junior in college in finance and you know all my classes were like you got to get an internship over the summer right that's that was the number one thing you know that you know to get prepared for the job market when you graduate and I just kept applying and uh and they uh being a college athlete they really liked you know that college athlete mentality you know the competitive uh you know Spirit you know and uh I I went in in this trainings had KN knew nothing about painting or anything but well it was such a it taught me so much about cold calling going door door to-door sales I was essentially just go knocking on doors and then having you know a budget of you know other college kids that I hired then paying per lead of just you know getting people to see hey do you need painting this this summer right that was the whole spring where just they gave me a territory luckily I had a very nice territory in Buffalo you know the the a little bit more affluence so I was just going in those neighborhoods and you know my English was way worse people could really you know like didn't really you know were like what are you doing here oh well I'm looking to page your house house well have you ever painted I'm like no but I can measure it they taught me how to actually measure the square footage on the outside and it taught me so much about sales and you know putting putting signs on the highway at night me and my wife my my current wife we we were just you know going all in and it was a very successful Venture I ran you know was over over $100,000 business over the summer bought letters of fan everything it was just it it it it really really uh taught me a lot but you know one lesson I had was I was explaining to other you know mentors or people above me what I'm doing and they were like you're crazy why would you do that I mean you know you you know why would you go at night put put signs on the highway why would you go through this and I was very fulfilled internally but I was not 100% convinced that this was my you know conviction and other people actually convinced me that hey no you should you know go go get a go get a a banking job go go go pursue this career you know that that you that you go get two masters go and I I pursued for a decade this this this this Venture but you know looking back you know my instincts and my excitement about Kei knows it because I was I was I was meeting him at night and I was explaining to him everything what I was doing while I was in college and I was the exitement was there so I I I couldn't you know you know I would say recommend this opportunity it's not for everybody most the the the the bad rep has it that you know the franchise gives you everything you know the funds it charges you you know the fees the royalties are astronomical you know they they do but but it's it's it's for the right for the right fit and for the right test it's it's a it's an unbelievable opportunity you know to to test yourself and to see you know hey can you actually build it from yeah so well it it's obviously such good training for running a true local Blue Collar Services business and so many people in our world in the ETA world of buying businesses you know the big the big gap that they have on their resume is operations experience um and so it feels like we need one of these for like mid-career people to go out and and get training or get experience doing a small business operations for a season or for a year um before diving in so too too bad that it's just for college kids because yeah what invaluable experience absolutely absolutely and it's you know it's it's you get what you put in right and it teaches you a lot about business so so yeah it was it was incredibly uh I I I I'm very grateful for that opportunity well guys we got a lot to to cover here so let me let us move on um so you have told us why you were both ready to step off your respective traditional Corporate Finance paths why buy business tell us how the vision that you're now pursuing how that coalesced I would say it kind of went in phases um December of 2022 uh George and I sat down and said you know we've been after this for a decade um let's go all in and figure this out and from there uh you know we just started you know covering the internet looking for you know Biz Buy sell businesses to buy businesses to start uh and we said we're going to give it six months we're going to give it our all and from there uh if it doesn't work out then we'll just continue and be happy in corporate and uh during that six months we we we did that you know we're working full-time jobs and we were spending all night uh searching for businesses trying to figure it out um I would say the thing that led us to Eta uh was George being very active on Twitter um you know he's like hey there's these books out there let's read these books um start talking to people uh you know we went through endless networking um you know we've talked to many of the the past uh um guests on your show um you know and and we figured out uh ETA made the most sense um my background was Acquisitions um and so I kind of understood a little bit about that part and uh although it's very different working with the SBA and uh you know once we we committed to that uh we went through a lot of businesses we we made some mistakes we started going down some Ventures that uh seemed to make sense at the time and and uh ended up not what we wanted uh some some on the startup side and with uh the waste management um that didn't work out and then uh once we figured it out I think it was by April um we had this deal under contract so um you know we we wrote several Lois we talked to many many owners and uh so that's kind of what led us to it was just sitting down committing to it and then uh once we found ETA it made the most sense and uh we pulled the trigger but wait it sounds like in fact even once you discovered ETA you were still entertaining other things so while you liked it it wasn't and maybe I have this wrong it wasn't the like you know Skies parting Angel singing moment that it is for some of my guests it was like this could be one path which looks good but then there's these others that you guys apparently dabbled in as well yeah I would say one thing is uh we're pretty aggressive uh with our goals and ambition so uh you we looked at a a a different franchise and uh we were going down the path uh we had spoke to the the franchisee um everything looked good and we said okay this makes sense uh we can have you know a somewhat of a base salary and explore other things there's two of us you know so we can do we don't have to run one company we can run two um and so we had it introduction to an idea as New Concept in the the waste management industry and uh so you know we went in to gain as much knowledge as fast as we could and um you know at first it sounded really good and and I still think it it's a good business but it was a startup and the more that we kind of looked at it we wanted to stay away from startups well I imagine for a couple of guys in their mid-30s doing well in finance you had Hefty W2 income to replace mind sharing what that looked like yeah I mean we both uh in the six figures uh income wise um so you know we were doing well uh especially you know here in Buffalo uh cost of living is is Affordable um so we were doing well and uh so that was one of the aspects of a a startup we knew there was going to be a lot of pain and uh you know jumping into uh something that's existing and then another piece of that I would say is uh my background with Self Storage uh and knowing the acquisition side that we could step in uh part of our model was acquiring Mom and Pop uh operated uh self storage facilities coming putting in technology systems and uh so as we looked at we said well there's a lot of mom and pop businesses out there we can kind of apply the same thing here well that is the yeah that is kind of the model here a big a big part of it or a big feature of it um and what did your then search look like so what were your parameters in terms of SD that you wanted you know basically replacing or or I don't know if you want I you probably didn't expect that you could fully replace both of your salaries all at once correct me if I'm wrong so so what kind of SE did you were you looking for how much money did you guys have liquid to put toward this project give us some uh some dirty details here if you would George you want to take that yeah sure so I mean we we were pretty broad one thing we discovered and I think we discovered along the way is we were doing a self-funded proprietary search right that's you know the terminology but uh we uh we were looking for you know I say 1 million to 5 million in Revenue uh businesses and we looked for there's a couple of pieces that we heard that they they that's that's they make it appealing such as reoccurring Revenue enduringly profitable you know businesses that you know locally you know we we we do look at you know some the recessionary you know environment you know how how how certain industries are are performing in certain environments so we we've analyzed everything demographics we looked at in the in the you know healthc care space so we we our our our Niche was very broad we did you know contacted all the like all the local Brokers here in Western New York we were reaching out directly to owners and very early on once after several meetings with owners we uh we identified that you know we we have a very compelling case for owners owners trusted us we we were going to be you know operationally involved our story related with a lot of the local owners here in Buffalo New York and it was a very very appealing you know process for us where we actually truly enjoyed learning about the businesses learning about the story of you know you know baby boomer owners who's actually got their kids through college through their business went through you know with the employees all the story and we had a very genuine interest in their business in their story and you know talking about looking at people that have you know Inc corporate that are you know 20 years all 30 years later we were looking at those at at the at the business owners who are 2030 and we had you know I was like wow this is inspiring right this is the you know for me personally it was the American dream right it was something that I was you know truly you know immersed on and I kept asking questions you know getting there getting to know and and a lot of the owners was that that that was very appealing to them because you know the other offers were from a competitor they would you know you know uh buy them out right you know look look to cutting expenses you know the typical play for from from another business whether for us it was all about you know the people the growth and uh the the interest the genuine interest in in in in the businesses so so very early on we're like wow this this actually you know appeals to uh to without actually trying to sell we were we uh we are a very attractive buyer I would say to to to a lot of local businesses here and in terms of that Revenue range a million to 5 million that's a very broad Revenue range and if we just assume 20% margins that's anywhere from 200 to a million of SD so what was the what were you guys going to do I mean spoiler you buy at the low end of that range but let's say like at this point in the in the story where you're considering what you'll buy if you found a million-dollar business throwing off $200,000 a year how is that going how did the math work on supporting two guys coming from great salaries we basically looked at one or two opportunities right we knew that this was maybe not a if we buy on the lower end maybe this would not have been the only thing we would do right we have and we currently have several other projects on the side you know Consulting and other Acquisitions so we're we've always been you know okay this is the first thing right we got to be able to close on on and it was always that urgency component over the last decade that accumulated so we had that urgency side where we need to get we need to close we need to get it and you know we looked at okay we could have you know you know look for investors and just go on the other route but that was you know that would that would just increase the length of our search that would you know play around so so that urgency was was I would say our number you know was was the the fuel the fuel behind us where we say let's let's find a business that we can close and and you know if we can close with our own funds right without raising Capital that's probably gonna you know uh FASTT trck the the the closing process and get us you know where we wanted to be in the shortest amount of period of time I would say the urgency was was was a big big factor so this is a this is a get in the game is more important than finding the perfect business of course the perfect business doesn't exist but even being too picky about the business yes absolutely and you know one one one funny story will is and I'm not trying to give a strategy here but we did look at all your guests on the podcast we buil a spreadsheet we ranked all your guests and we started reaching out and we were very successful on on I would say we had probably between 10 to 20 successful calls with you know Industries people that we could relate Partnerships all that component and you know I I just have in my mind those stories that have been you know and we did you know by listening to you to some of the stories you know some folks were in the search for one two three you know like a lengthier time of time and we're like that can't happen for us right so we got to figure out you know you know what what what the alternative is here so so so you know and this is a little bit of a thank you to you because this was you know it was very helpful for us uh in in in this process good that's awesome George and you're the second guest in in his many weeks who has said to me I heard on your podcast these people who it would take a year or two or three to search and get this thing done and I needed to have it happen faster than that so so I guess um yeah the the fear of a super long search really motivates people to and and then and then you get Ur you get kind of that sense of urgency and you probably yeah obviously you close close faster um great Keith anything to add to all this um yeah you know the the other thing that I would add kind of you know being in in Acquisitions in in my past uh life uh I knew knew that every deal has hair on it and you're going to have to work through something um you know and then the the other piece of this business that we found was the valuation um very attractive EV valuation from our perspective um so that allowed us to say this is it let's move forward great well let's now hear about the business that you found um I'll start with how we how we found it so so uh basically it was a m multiple Brokers we've reached out and we we met with a a local broker on the older side and uh I would say very unsophisticated uh local broker uh late 70s uh and we I would say discarded him very early on because you know coming from you know our you know corporate lives we was like well this person you know does you know no computers very very basic right and but looking at his listings he had probably the largest amount of listing on bis by sell locally so so very that was something you know learning perspective that he reasoned very well with the baby boomer owner right that was actually you know which the market was what we're looking for right and this is eventually the person that actually you know brought us uh the the the existing deal here and looking closer to it we we we realized very on that it had a lot of uh um elements that were important to us you know reording Revenue 30 year old existing business um physical assets real estate in place so there were certain things that really attracted us to uh to the deal uh it was on the lower side so that was one of the things that we had to uh take into account for and we did uh and we we decided to to move forward on Loi here uh to and to be clear you guys quit and then quit your jobs and then started searching or was theide a that you'd quit only when you found a business second yeah we we quit only when we found a business so it was a quote part-time search you weren't searching full-time you did a part-time search and then then you quit when you found the business we were both working from home so hopefully our employers don't really uh our previous employers but yeah we were focused a lot of more and more time on the search and you know the calls I mean it was just you know I would say that was a probably I would call it the full-time and uh yeah full-time sech uh during the day and yes so gotcha okay and so so more about this business what was the business what is the business how big was it you said it was 30 years old has reoccurring revenue or recurring Revenue so so tell us more about what the business actually is yeah I'll I'll start here and then I'll let Keith kind of add in so the the the the the special part about this business was that you know it was a you know started the business was started initially by a couple uh that essentially started cleaning themselves and they've built it uh to a very successful level uh we we see this maybe in the industry called a lifestyle business where you know the couple had their you know uh roles in the business you know I think the the the the the spouse the wife was you know taking care of you know almost like an office manager role and the husband was more on the operation side but they buildt it you know to to a very comfortable level uh 45 employees um around you know 1.5 in Revenue uh and and they they were very successful they uh they were you know uh we heard that they were spending a lot of time in Europe they had an office manager and operations manager in place and they sold it in uh in 2021 uh the they sold the business in 2021 to a gentle older gentleman that was not coming from this industry uh that uh that acquired it and with very little you know uh janitorial commercial cleaning experience also very little business experience so uh so so the person who uh who who bought in 2021 came in and uh realized I think very early on that uh you know this is not as passive as he expected it you know I think the the the the vision that he had was you know you put you have an operations manager in place and you know that person is running the business and you know you basically you know cash flow and uh and you maintain right that was kind of his philosophy but uh uh the the two key people that were running the business quit left left so the operations manager and the office manager left and you know since then it was kind of the business was very trending downwards right uh that the previous person had several panic attacks it was just there was a lot of uh pain I think you know uh that we that we so so we bought the business you know after two years of of this person you know uh owning it because he realized very early on that he needs to exit uh uh and and that's when we came in and uh and we bought the business from from from from from this gentleman that uh that uh that um yeah that realized the pain well a few a few follow-ups here first of all everybody listening so here's an example of somebody who bought a business and thought Oh I'll buy a business and the operator will just run things and um happens sure but don't assume you can pull it off very perilous as as the your seller uh painfully learned cautionary tale um okay and then the so would you consider this a turnaround I mean was this business outright distress or was it just kind of on the decline you needed to you know arrest the decline and reverse it I mean how how dire was the was the situation at the business I'll let Keith take that one yeah uh I would say the the border of on Decline and distressed um you know the the seller had walked away for the most part uh he actually took a full-time job while we were under contract and was was no longer uh at the business during the day had his operations manager there um I think in the time that we went under contract to the time we closed three of the largest customers uh left um the staff was constant turnover um you know uh Staffing was a major issue uh so by the time we walked in the door uh you know everyone told us sit and observe for six months uh before you we did not have that luxury uh we had to start making changes immediately well on the other hand because there was so much turnover you you probably weren't disrupting that many employees part part of the reason you don't Implement changes early is because the team that you've inherited is is not going to respond well to all this disruption but if if the business is churning through employees anyway maybe there aren't that many people whose lives you'll disrupt by implementing change or but so so for people at the business how many people were kind of in management and how many of those 45 were basically field cleaners yeah the the the the the previous the successful part of the business uh pre you know acquisition of the gentleman was that there there was a a real structure in place right there was a there was an ops manager office manager and then you had a supervisory level that's crucial to to the to to our our part of the business and then you have the the Frontline staff uh those layers have been kind of eliminated in the in the in the last part of the the the acquisition so you you know you essentially had you know the the ops manager kind of like removed all the that supervisory level and you know that person kind of running the the entirety of the of the show but running it in not in the most successful and operationally efficient way so so we realized very early on that that second layer of supervisory was was was was was missing and that is I would say probably one of the key pieces of the operations of of of the of our type of business and also the business our side you cannot have 45 employees you know basically reporting to one person and you know that puts a lot of pressure on that one you know ops manager and also secondly you know the the the capacity and the the ability for that person to efficiently run you know the the the day-to-day operations is is it's you're setting up for failure and guys this was a franchise yes yes so so okay so so let's hear about that but what I don't understand is you mentioned husband and wife started this so they were franchisees absolutely so they they were a denovo franchise ter territory in this franchise system 32 years ago okay and then they built up this territory but but still under a franchise all right so tell us about your analysis of the of this of the franchisor of this franchise brand yeah the the the franchise uh we we looked into it and we you know reviewed the FDD and uh and and we were actually you know us we are not very keen on franchising to be honest with you because there's you know that you have the royalty component and you also have the restrictions component right and you know we came in from corporate where there's you know it's all about you know structure restrictions rules right and we we saw franchising as that you know side of you know adding you know having having a business with certain restrictions but uh uh there were several things we we liked the the the the the group that you know the service master group that we we purchased was recently acquired by by private equity and there was a lot of I would say momentum in you know in for on the growth side and we we we looked at that and we saw that an opportunistic uh approach and fast forward to today I think you know the biggest lesson for for me and then Keith can add on this is really with a friend you know the the one feedback we heard from the previous owner was that I had no help nobody was helping me nobody was you know you know I'm I'm just paying the royalty and I get nothing in return right that was kind of the the the constant feedback and we couldn't disagree more on that side because we leveraged all the resources we went to the annual conference in February we met you know the president of the of the of the franchise they came into Buffalo they visited us we we we expressed our growth and we expressed our vision and we had so much support from from from that that perspective and I would say so many opportunities that that wouldn't come up from you know from just being not being a franchise have come up up so far and also the second part I would like to mention is the network we met you know the most successful owners in the network spoke with them we build relationships with with those franchise owners you know not not locally but you know from from you know all over the country they have done it for 30 years and they are you know current mentors helping us you know grow and and build the operations of the business that I think you know it'll be very difficult from a non-franchise perspective so the short story will is you get what you put in right you have to be able to articulate your ask you have to be able to put yourself out there and you know the reward can be can be there on in a franchise model well Le let's let's push on that a little bit George because um it does it sounds like you guys were really proactive which is great reaching out to other franchisees and then communicating to the franchisor meeting the president so on and and being vocal about what you wanted to do here but you still need a a franchise or on the other side of the table who's receptive to that and it sounds like you guys got lucky if you will that there was new Energy new blood at the franchise or with through this private Equity Group that had just acquired it so that you caught them at a particular a good moment where they're eager to bring in ambitious people and to demonstrate Good Will to the franchises I guess so so um you know I think it takes two to tango in that situation and so I guess the learning would be what Express like Express like just basically try to get to know the franchisor as much as you can and be vocal about what you what you acquisition entrepreneur want to do and just see how they respond and see if there's chemistry and see if there's receptivity to what your what Your Ambitions are sort of thing yeah that's that's that's definitely the learning go ahead Keith yeah I I I think that's part of it uh and for us you know uh it's important who we work with um I will say we looked at another Fran very similar acquired by private Equity um pushing out technology uh you know aspiring uh growth and we just didn't like the the personality of that other franchise and uh at that point that was early on and we actually said we're not going to do franchises if you know this is kind of the the approach um so for us it really is getting to know them uh you know what kind of support is out there uh what those fees you're going to be paying are and if they're going to change um so it was really just kind of doing our homework and figuring it out I guess one of the other things is this is very specific to your situation so I'm not sure how valuable it is for the audience but since the franchise was now under new ownership with this private Equity Group talking to the other franchisees and saying hey you know what's it like to work in this franchise what's it like working with this franchisor a lot of them were probably like not that helpful because they were like well it's under new ownership now so we don't know there's this moment of uncertainty for everybody sort of thing right yeah absolutely um you know that's one thing we kind of noticed coming in especially the the Legacy owners in the franchise you know there was a lot of Rumblings that of folks that we talked with that H nothing's going to change or oh they're just trying to to come in and grow they don't care about the owners um so there and then there were owners that were Legacy owners that were like this is great we're finally going to get support so it really was kind of that that mixed feelings uh among the the franchises that were out there um but the the franchises or that we were talking to and aspiring to to follow behind were the ones who were excited and that's kind of what kept us excited about it interesting so the franchisees that you liked seemed to be fired up yes and so that that that energy pulled you along interesting um well I think all of this goes to the point that basically when you buy an existing franchise business there's just more risk there and that risk can be good and bad so so because if you um you just there there's a whole other relationship there to to vet and TR and diligence to the extent that you can that is with the franchise or how they're going to behave or how much support Etc um so it's just an additional level of complexity when you go to diligence your the business that you're looking at buying but that's not necessarily a negative because that can be extremely beneficial I mean I think I think George you're you're now kind of a proponent of what you guys did that there was so much you've gotten so much support it it's really been a cheat code now you're paying for it it ain't free that's what the royalties are for so you you hopefully you would hope that you are getting something for that but but still I mean um I'm just reminded my most recent interview the one that'll probably air before you guys with Corey Robinson bought uh four units and then quickly another um another eight in a franchise system Batteries Plus so retail sells batteries and kind of Energy Services um and so we just did a deep dive as to analyzing the pros and cons of working within a franchise there's a lot to like about it uh especially if you are acquisition minded from the outset guys you said you communicated your vision to the franchise or president what is the vision what was the vision that you communicated to e you want take that one yeah I mean uh our our vision is to uh you know first take control of our Market um you know our our mission our our goal is to be the the best quality commercial cleaning company in Buffalo um and so we're starting with that uh and then it's to grow within our Market we see a lot of opportunity um you know quality is one piece of the the service that is lacking significantly uh I don't think that's just in our Market I think that's in the the industry in general um you know so the to come in and provide quality service uh that's that's number one uh grow within the market but then also have the opportunity to roll up within other markets um you know we've had some of those conversations with other owners uh and that's another piece I think that's unique to us is as we started getting more into the the acquisition space a lot of sellers aren't ready to sell um so we're we have the opportunity to have that conversation with those sellers of hey let's get this this and this in order before we come in and and uh acquire that that business um the other piece of it is you know we're getting our our hands in on operations and down to the you know Frontline level uh I think that going in that to me that's one of the the benefits of buying small uh you know you can go in and and buy at a high level uh a large company and I think you miss some of the details down on that front line um and so that now that we've had the opportunity to see that you know we can communicate much better with the franchise or of hey you know we we know what happens within this business in the day-to-day um we can go into to this acquire this new business and you know implement the things that we've learned and you know really grow those franchises those markets as well that's a great point if if you want to if you want to do a programmatic acquisition strategy in Fr in a franchise context buying small allows you to really educate yourself on that how that franchise system works um and and you know improve your first territory or unit or location and then know how to do the same in subsequent ones super super well like kind of have your own playbook for um how to work within this system y um and but but the vision maybe so maybe that's what you said to the president Keith so but I I also know that there's a bigger Vision here what is the aspiration here you guys left these lofty um corporate tracks in finance uh what is the large aspiration here if any yeah um yeah within number is there a number or is it just build a hold Co or what um you know I I think I I look at us uh you know uh at the high level we're an acquisition company uh we're opportunistic we have a lot of compl complimentary skill sets and we have a diverse background uh you know real estate banking sports and entertainment uh so we're looking in those areas but ultimately we want to identify verticals and roll up within those verticals um so that's the the big Vision uh hulco would be great um you know if if it comes to that we'll we'll figure that out um but it is uh to keep acquiring and and uh buying right you know ultimately uh for us the big thing is culture uh you know we want to have companies that are run the way we want run uh the way the things that we didn't like in corporate so ultimately it's kind of you know continuing to acquire for those right opportunities but provide a great workplace for employees and do that every company that that we look to to acquire and will one uh one observation here to just give you a kind of a story when we came in right that supervisory you know we buying you know going for the employees to go through two Acquisitions in such a short period of time it's not easy right the culture is not there right and we uh we actually pushed on a supervisory person who's been through you know the two uh the two Acquisitions and he's like well you're just going to buy it and sell it you know in a couple like that was the feedback right so that that trust and that culture is is and we didn't really you know accounted for that when we when when we came in right and we realized it's very so for us building that trust and you know when when the supervisory team or even the Frontline staff were going to work there was no really excitement I mean there's very little excitement about cleaning in general Right cleaning is a hard job right it's it's not you know it's not nothing fancy but for us we have the 4:00 meeting here and you know having the table full of excitement people you know that being being happy having the you know happy customers being proud in the in the job that they're doing and taking taking very you know taking accountability for that it's been uh it's it's it's just been such a life-changing that we really didn't you know in cult in our corporate culture we talked about culture mission statement all that it was all blah blah for me personally because I never really looked into it you know until we actually you know own a business that and I understand the the importance of culture because it actually it's lifechanging right right seeing the the the our employees coming to work happy having you know providing a good quality service uh with you know the right people was was one of our first priority and that that allows us ultimately to grow right and and without that we we we we wouldn't be in a position to to grow and we did that instinctively because you know taking on growth early on was not something that we could do we had to basically build that that Baseline of our employees and we did our first company picnic I think you know in the in the you know we had people coming in excited you know we have a lot of immigrants and Workforce right from different Baseline different cultures and uh it was just it's it's it's cool to see that uh and we realize okay this is what we want to do actually because with that that growth side and then the ability to scale will come but it's it's a must for us and George did you guys plan at the outset that there would be that building culture would be a big part of this or was it only once you got inside the business and you saw that there was probably a really bad cult culture or non-existent culture that you decided culture was something that you should prioritize because the way you're making it sound is like it was um well you're not making it sound either this way or that I'm just curious like was it was this an evolution that that you realized culture was important or did you always plan that it would be such a big part of your strategy it was an evolution for me personally it was it was an evolution because we uh we understood right that the quality of of of the happiness of of our employees is a direct reflection of you know the quality of work they're going to be performing and also so you know it was an evolution for sure and it just kept you know that Evolution get going higher and higher because uh yeah it's it's it's it's a must uh in in this type of Workforce and you know we had to let go you know I would say we counted yesterday probably 20 plus I mean there's the industry has a high turnover but you know we we let go of you know 20 plus people and rehired you know so so there's a lot of rehiring hiring abl lishing that culture uh as we as we evolved and at this stage we're you know seeing the results you know couple you know eight months later post acquisition is just it's it's it's it's uh it's it's one of the most satisfying uh place where that we experience and this is one of those those where you establish a new culture and you say this is how things are going to be now everybody if you're on board we'd love to have you be part of this new direction that we're taking the company and if not we invite you you to leave uh sort of thing and so you basically you know keep the people on the bus that are down with the new ownership and down with the new culture and those who are not uh are are get off the bus one way or the other yeah absolutely natur evolves right and you know it it it was a lot of mistrust in the beginning right because we were saying those things right as post closing you're right to the to the to the team in at our table to to everyone around us but you know we we had to roll our hands dirty and just go with them at night you know gain their trust and it took several several months of of building that trust you know we brought uh employees that were let go by the previous ownership just because they couldn't you know operate uh you know in in those working environments and you know I just remember one particular case with was one of a top Lead Supervisor we called him in and he's like uh I'm just going to be here for an hour observe you like you know a very very cautious you know uh uh approach and you know it took months and months of just us you know doing what we're say we're going to do being with them at night you know us cleaning you know covering accounts covering uh certain things that that that that uh that evolved and you know we were looking at each other you know while we were doing it at early stage and says what are we doing is this worth it is this I mean you know there's a lot of questions right you you ask yourself you know when you when you're in the trenches but like looking back right now it was all worth it because we see the results uh and we're early still yeah yeah and and Keith weigh in on on this as well the this how you built trust and and actually doing cleaning or going out at nights that was I don't mean this in a negative way that was performative that was making a point or that was because you actually needed to or both or what uh no I I would say both but uh we we absolutely had to uh you know Staffing such an issue uh for us you know one of the things we looked at is a customer cannot go without Service uh we were underst staffed uh high levels of callof so uh you know in these early nights uh you know I would have to bring my daughter to to George's house uh she would sleep there and we would go out cleaning all night and then you know we're in the office first thing the the next morning um so you know it was a lot of have to you guys would go out cleaning all night the two of you yeah because you were short staffed yes how many nights did you do that uh probably months couple months two two to three months I say yeah overnight the both of you yes great guys good good that is really admirable that's awesome um and and and and you know you you've you said early on that part of the bond that the two of you share is that you are grinders you can grind um but talk to us a little bit about the as George said like looking at each other being like is this what we're is this really what we signed up for is this was this the vision no but really yeah talk talk a little bit more about that and and and just kind of the the re um the shifting in the kind of professional identity that you must have been undergoing from highflying kind of corporate careers to this you know that that I mean there's a lot there that must have been and how did your family react and so on just there so I what do you want to say about all that because that that must have been quite a quite a few months of um just the psychological uh development there must have been something yeah it I mean it was uh a bit of a change uh you know going from uh the corporate job to to cleaning toilets stripping in wax and floors um but you know I think it taught us a lot um and the the big thing with our relationship is uh we find ways to laugh I think it's very important yeah you know we're we're very serious we work hard but uh you know we're able to to crack jokes in those times of of what are we doing um and ultimately we knew it was a good business um you know it's reoccurring Revenue everybody needs it um you know medical facilities industrial facilities um two of our biggest focuses uh and you know we looked at uh what happened during covid uh this business uh stayed open where you know many were shut down this business actually grew during covid um so so you know we looked at it is we knew that it was the right business uh it's just uh going to take a lot of work to get it back on track um you know and and you know part of our relationship as partners and and friends you know I've I've looked at George for you know 10 years working on uh getting his green card uh and he stopped at nothing to get it and uh I have so much respect for him uh and I know you know someone who's going to continue to grind and work that hard uh to you know take the next step up uh I just uh I knew I had the right person beside me so uh you know it was hard but uh it was easy uh having someone next to you that's going through the grind with you that's so cool guys George you want to add anything well let let me let me jump because I I gotta really be watching the clock here because we got a ways to go we're already an hour into this um the now despite the fact that this is behind you that you learned a lot you know the the kind of character building uh an understanding of your business building experience that this was there are going to be people who are hearing this and are like these guys should have just bought a bigger business um and you know may maybe they learned something about how to clean but they also could have skipped through that part if they just bought a half a million dollar SD business or what have you respond to them I wouldn't change it you know uh the no I I wouldn't I wouldn't change a thing and and there's a lot of things that go into that um you know I think that number one understanding what the Frontline workers are doing um you know how they're feeling how they're thinking um you know their attitude towards the job how can you impact that um you know then coming from corporate you have departments you know it your computer breaks um now we've got no one to call you know I'm I'm calling George into my office when something happens to my computer you know um and we just have to figure it out the problem solving uh the stress uh that that comes with it uh you know it's it's it's a it's a benefit in the long run it's you know it's difficult going through it um but the learning and I think that's going to translate as we continue to acquire and roll up because uh you know we ultimately are but it allows us to ask questions and see things that we wouldn't have seen if we weren't in at this level and well for me is like the the understanding of operations we we had operations you know in banking in in our previous career and I give very little credit and very little value for you know uh highly successful operations you know managers or professionals and understanding how you know I'm I'm very obsessed towards systems and uh Sops right and understanding how difficult it is that that that creation and especially implementation of systems at a you know at a at a at a lower level is it was just like it's something that I that I right now realize it's it's so crucially important and like Ki mentioned I think going in we always going to have you know being in due diligence with having meetings with you know next future businesses that we're going to acquire it is I mean that the questions that we're going to be asking and the due diligence that we're going to have from you know from going down to the details is just such an invaluable lesson and I realize this when I you know speak with other you know uh Searchers or entrepreneurs I can tell right now I mean it's it's it's maybe it's cocky from my side but I can tell very early on if someone has a deep understanding of you know what trickles down to you know the the the operations and the systems and the procedures trickle down to all the all the way to the front line and that's I mean that is just it's a it's a high paay lesson but I think it will it will help us scale incredibly well and make the future decisions in in a such a much more strategic and and beneficial way for us uh I don't know it's just it's it's a lot of learning that it's a high high high price to pay I agree but I think it's it's it's an incredible learning and you know three months it's been you know since beginning of the year we looked at each let's put the systems in place let's let's get up and we haven't cleaned since beginning of the year so you know that's you know so so so you know we we we had to build that up right then we had to create it but I don't know just the learning and the experience and the the background is just it's an invaluable lesson that I wouldn't I wouldn't trade it I love it guys I mean I I I'm not necessarily going to prescribe that everybody do it um but yeah I I I'm sold on just how valuable it is I mean and if you think about it kind of as an investment as oppos you know we think about about investment is capital but an investment of time um and I agree you'll the the return on this investment will be high indeed uh for years to come as long as you're in this in the janitorial business in this franchise system and again the cred The credibility that you built with your employees I mean again just so I mean they must have been like who are our bosses I don't get why they're doing this but I love it and will it's like there's this phrase you know I hear in the space as like oh you just put an oper in place that's I keep hearing this right and then people don't understand that the the the the difficulty of one finding that operator and to like you know if you don't understand the operations or you know the that you're not going to be able to just put an operator in place because it's it's I don't know it's just something that I keep hearing it you know in the space just like oh I'm gonna put an operator in place and and be successful that is that and I understand that the weight of that phrase so much at a much higher level well yourself was a exhibit a of that right that's what that's what he he thought he was doing okay guys let's see here before we get too far away from the the numbers of the deal and the business let's hear those just real quick so it was doing I think you said George it was doing a million and a half when it was sold the first time or when you guys bought it it was doing a million and a half yeah uh when when we uh when we when we initially went on the contract was uh was doing a mil and a half we had like a lengthy closing uh uh period uh much more lengthier than expected so so so so yeah and and so and what was it doing then when you got into the business I'll let Keith kind of uh uh yeah so it had been hovering uh around a million and a half for about the last four or five years uh so under both previous owners uh it had stayed fairly consistent um when we went under contract it was still in that range uh annualized it had dropped to about 1.1 by the time we closed and then did you retrade you must have yes yeah yes yes yeah okay so so million and a half or and so let's the million and a half what was it doing what are the margins like in this business what was the SD I think it was a 380 SD so 380 SD and uh and we uh we essentially bought it at two 2x you know including the real estate so so oh 2x including the real estate what was the real estate uh real estate was two was it 2 250 250 yeah and what what is it a commercial building yeah yeah our office here yep so 2x of 380 is 760 and 250 of that is the building so you got the business for 510 uh business that was doing 3 andd you got for 510 so you got a great deal it would seem um although wait that 380 number is was at the after losing the business or it was at the 1.1 number or the 1.5 million that was after after great okay well that helps you got a good deal y right is it it was it a good deal you're no it was a it was a good deal yeah absolutely and uh you know we during due diligence we had a third party valuation uh you know Banks uh were were you know very attracted to it uh so we had no problem uh choosing a lender there um so it was it was a very good deal and that that was another uh you know driver on buying small uh it was almost uh I don't want to say too good to pass up but uh very attractive yeah yeah well good for you guys um and this is the service master brand is what it's called yep Service Master Clean Service Master Clean and and so that's a pretty that you said it's a legacy franchise so that's a brand with hundreds of territories around the country what's give us a sense of scale yeah okay yeah around I believe around 450 franchises throughout the country 450 okay all right just a little bit more on the culture changes and and and just the Immigrant culture George you're an immigrant um you you've mentioned that you mentioned it on the preall and a lot of the Frontline staff are immigrants and so um I don't know just what H talk to people out there who might be considering a blueco collar business where their their Crews might have a lot of um immigrant folks working in them what would you say about that particular Dynamic I would say uh just from a business perspective right like for me it's personal right we one thing we did was very un with we wanted to meet every single person that work for us and not just say hey we're the owners but actually understand them what's what's their background what's their culture what's what what is and you know we have immigrant Workforce from you know Ukrainian uh uh Arabic uh Afric like it's basically very wide variety of of of of immigrant and that comes with different cultures right and understanding that that that cultural background is is super important because you really have to understand uh there are there are similarities within cultures and you know for example you know the you know South American or Puerto Rican are some of the best workers and they they take a lot of pride in their cleaning right so you know the praising and the the the ability to actually uh appreciate their work is uh works a lot better than just you know going in and yelling and and and and saying hey you missed this versus you know someone from Eastern Europe or a different culture where they react so I think it's just it's important to understand the cultural background of your immigrant Workforce and you know we have couples that have been you know Engineers doctors accountants that have been working for us for five plus years and there are some of our best workers that are you know full-time workers and and they're extremely you know proud and and and take a lot of Pride and the the professionalism level is is is extremely high so you can find an extremely valuable Workforce you know we hear everyone you know complaining about the workforce the quality of work but you really have to spend the time to you know understand you know go in a little bit deeper right we we went above and beyond because the English is you know obviously not our first language and some of the some of the workforce you know they've been working for they've been in America for 10 plus years and they still don't speak English because they just live in their in the in the in in their respective communities right so they don't really need to and our work you know doesn't need English speaking right you going at night the building is closed you can just you know perform your duties without you know uh required to speak the English but the commun we had to figure out the communication part right so we're we're you know downloading certain apps that they communicate in I understand it because I have you know my family in Europe all over the place so I understand that and then we translating you know every scope of work details customer communication and we really you know make sure that they that communication piece is is in place and I mean it's just transformed the the quality and also they're they they just feel like they're being listened they feel like they're being you know uh you know uh understood D and and then the reward is just it's it's it's it's so invaluable uh I'll stop here so to distill that George it sounds like it's it's be attentive to the culture cultural differences one group from another first of all don't just treat them like sort of an America you'd expect to treat a fellow American uh try to kind of learn frankly a little bit about their culture and how they might react in a work context um and then each immigrant group obviously from different every country is a different culture so that if you got a multi- a rainbow staff from a bunch of different countries that means learn something about all the countries and then the language too do what you C sorry what was it you you have an app where you I didn't understand communicating in their language so a lot of yeah a lot of immigrants you know and a lot of international outside of the US they communicate through WhatsApp right WhatsApp is one of the you know one of the the apps you know and you know very little in you know in the US because it's dominated by the iPhone market right the Apple you know you have iMessage right well that's you know like a lot of just people don't really even have that that side and you know small things like this is I think they're they're very important you know going you know when the Ramadan is is coming saying going to your you know Workforce and saying hey you can start later on you can do your you know and you know as long as the quality is there I mean it goes It goes a long way it goes a long way uh understanding you know the the the yearly cycle and just and just uh because you know the labor piece it is the the the highest constraint in our business right like everybody talks about it right that finding the the the the Quality Labor you know we we you know we're playing at the minimum wage and a little bit above it right so so you know that space is is is not easy to to to to be filled right and uh and we we developed some you know Partnerships with the local Refugee groups here so so so we're we're actually you know uh we're actually being able to develop those Partnerships and uh and so far we've been you know we've been successful in in uh in in figuring that piece of of the puzzle and it's also rewarding right uh you know we we see the the the excitement and the implementing reward system employee of the month you know it's very easy when you don't in our space when you don't hear from a customer you assume that hey you know just everything you know everything no news is good news in our in our in our in our space right so rewarding that good behavior attendance etc etc have just been you know uh been very very successful ways to to uh to to grow our business and George when when you said earlier that when in corporate you know in the corporate context culture mission statements and stuff it's something that a lot of people kind of roll their eyes at and just think is window dressing on just a soulless corporate Corporation um but you are is that to say that now as an owner you see that differently or do you think that in a small business culture actually really does matter in a way that it doesn't in a corporate or or yeah I mean what's changed in the way you view culture I think it's just were you wrong were you wrong before were you wrong it always mattered and you just didn't realize when when you were a corporate guy maybe I was wrong you know and I I that's one thing he knows I I admit when I'm when I'm wrong but I think for the smaller the business it's the the most imperative it's it's almost like a necessary step uh to to to understand right uh to to and to to to Value it and it's it's it's it's actions right we can you know state it and we can create it and present it it's all about the the the the to-day actions and and that consistent Behavior right uh and it takes it takes it takes a long time so I I just you know for for us it's it's valuing that and just it's it's it's it's our strategy going forward for sure and it wasn't when we came in right Keith anything to add on the culture bit yeah um I think you know the the corporate culture side A lot of times feels uh Like An Empty Glass um you know you have these mission statements you get the emails but that's that's kind of the level of it you know for us uh you know we're involved we go to uh you know when there's a a burmes fundraiser you know will'll show up and uh you know say hey meet everybody um you know we we get involved uh you know and then uh and we've we've made mistakes uh uh you know on trying to change the culture side as well you know it it hasn't been we've come in and done this great job um you know and just an example of that you know I believed in this uh uh thought of radical transparency you know we're going to tell everyone everything we're doing what the vision is what the goal is and that backfired and we reversed course you know it turns out a lot of folks are scared of growth you know oh we're going to grow I'm G to lose my job um you know so it's it's a learning process like like you know you mentioned it's an evolution um but it's it's really about action instead of just sending an email saying hey we support this we you know we're actually showing up we're being involved and you know that translates a lot of ways uh one we see a lot of the other cultures the the other folks getting involved like oh you know here's a fundraiser at this community that you know is a different uh background to me and and they're showing up and uh so you know you kind of see that start to happen uh and then the other side of it when you do those things uh a lot of folks start bringing people they know and they bring good people they're like oh you know they uh you know are translating all of our scope of work everything we need to know into our native language um you know the it's a clear understanding of what the job is so um you know I think it's just uh actually uh doing what you're saying instead of just sending out an empty message great guys well I I I find it really um kind of inspirational that you're you're building this culture uh and this in this very kind of heavily immigrant uh Workforce business great stuff uh we're going to start wrapping up here guys back to the so transition there was more to the transition the culture we've spent a lot of time on culture uh which deserves it but there was a uh problematic GM I think the people should hear about uh and the power of recurring Revenue was something that we talked talked about familiar theme to listeners um but let's you know you're you're you know it's it's one thing to know this academically how recurring revenue is valuable it's another to feel it so I want to hear you guys articulate that first this GM yes so uh you know GE George is too busy sighing so he can't talk right now so you go you go ahead Kei yeah um you know so uh prior to close the the seller did invite us to to come in and uh observe uh the day-to-day part of it I think is because he had taken a full-time job and and was no longer there and maybe wanted an extra set of eyes but uh I mean we realized it immediately that there was a problem uh you know the way he was treating the staff uh was absolutely unacceptable um no one wanted to to come in work uh you know it was just uh creating a lot of issues uh we noticed he was not around during the day he was out uh supposedly V visiting in customers um you know he was not working at night he actually had another job at night uh so he wasn't even answering the phone um you know we have software to see if if uh our staff is clocked in at night uh he wasn't monitoring that so he would show up the next day and a customer would not receive uh service um so there was there was a lot of red flags a lot of problems and uh you know I uh I actually had went away for uh a few days and I came back and uh were some some major issues uh the first thing I noticed when I walked in was uh our door was broken and our office and uh apparently he had locked his keys in the office and decided the the best approach to get his keys was to kick the door in um so uh and and didn't mention anything showed up the next day like nothing happened so uh you know we had to go to the seller and say you know I understand you know we're about to close um you know there's a lot of things going on but we're not going to move forward unless he's removed immediately so um you know it was a nightmare uh for for the team uh for the business but uh you know we were able to uh work that out and we actually had to let him go um because the the the seller said okay that that's not a problem but you have to tell them so um yeah it was uh quite an interesting experience wow so you so you were just under Loi you hadn't closed and yet you had to be the ones to fire this yeah uny soul wow for me it was such a such a lesson of learning you know how one key person can actually you know be so you know impactful to the organization right I I I didn't really you know understood that from from from my corporate uh career and it was just an immediate lesson of how you know the the the importance of hiring right and just bringing the right people along is just such a such an important piece uh operationally uh so so so I just learned a lot from what not to do and what exact and and the impact uh it was just tremendous learning again well you guys are are are learning the hard way a lot of things though I mean you're uh it's it was an eventful transition or not even yet transition because you hadn't even closed uh you're already getting drama before you've even closed um and when when did you close as of when do you own this business so uh we closed October 31st of 2023 um our initial uh Target close date was June 28th okay so it pushed what is that three months four months four months um and you guys used Maas right yes we did let's give Maas Smith a little plug he introduced us sponsor of acquiring mines and um loan broker so Maas helped you guys get your SBA loan yeah it's it's a you know it's an incred was an incredible asset and resource uh in the the space and uh it's the the SB community in Twitter is has been just very helpful you know I'm you know part of the you know different peer groups uh in the community uh con constantly networking with folks in the industry and it's just such a such a such a fun you know I've always we've always wanted to be part of you know something and I don't know just the space seems so genuine and so there's a lot of excitement there's a lot of growth and uh just I you know I told my wife I was like hey you know we had spent some vacations on some conferences with some she's like looking at me like with who like what are you talking about I'm like there's a whole Community out there of of of of folks like us you know hungry professional genuine honest that are looking to do good in the world and also you know uh be successful financially and uh and and and intrinsically and I'm like I think this is you know it's almost like you always know that you want to be part of you know a certain you know Trend and uh it it it's fun to be uh to to just getting started in that in that space so you know and you're part of it well you know Maas there's I mean there's countless number of people and Professionals in the space that are doing a lot of great things and uh it's it's it's it's a fun it's a fun uh fun space it's a team sport well was yes very well put George and and um I share your enthusiasm and everything you said that's really it really is a a really neat space and the energy here is um intoxicating really yes um so the recurring Revenue guys talk to talk to me about that and then and then Revenue your Revenue in general what does the business look like today after uh what is that um nine months of ownership recur Revenue first yeah so um you know coming from the the self storage space um I kind of knew the the power of recurring Revenue um it's not a a one-time sale um you know so uh to me I look at it as the much of your business is relationship based um you know you got to make sure th those customers are happy um but it does give you uh a lot of predictability uh in planning and looking to the Future um so I I had a a good understanding uh and understood the the value of that uh I think that George maybe picked it up a little bit later uh on on seeing the you know it allowed us you know honestly looking at the the recurr Revenue it allowed us to come in and spend a few months on operations we technically haven't even started selling yet um so that recurring Revenue has allowed us to to stay afloat um and make changes and improve operations uh without have to actively be out selling every day and though you haven't been active in selling or really started your proactive selling where is revenue isn't it's up as I recall yeah so we've grown about 40% um we're around 1.7 1.8 right now um and that's uh after the the drop so uh we were able to to pick up some new customers we had some relationships of uh within the the community who just wanted to make a change uh we won back some of the customers that were lost um so you know and that's uh that's all been inbound we haven't we haven't started any outbound sales yet wow that's a lot of growth for just taking calls Word of Mouth inbound great um so 1.7 1.8 and circling back now to you guys personally in your own needs for income what does that look like so we we we recall that you said you know you wanted to get in the game you wanted to start your acquisition Journey so you're willing to buy small um but that was just step one and eventually you know you're you're going to need to see some some income from this I assume so what does that picture look like for you guys how are you thinking about paying yourselves what are you paying yourselves when are you going to pay yourselves when are you g to do your next acquisition yeah I think I think it's uh well I'll start here and then I'll let Keith it's uh we we do have you know a third partner as well and we we have several you know say side uh projects on the side right we have a Consulting uh several Consulting agreements in the I say in self storage space uh we do have a self storage development project uh some marketing and m&a in the space uh we looked at several you know other Acquisitions uh uh ongoing actually we have a several meetings this week and uh there's you know the the we have a financial advising wealth management uh agarwood uh uh uh partnership there um so we Tennis League so we have several things that are you know starting to evolve in in in parallel we we we keep ourselves very very busy well and uh and our time and uh and and focus is very diligently planned on a Sunday night call call uh uh for several hours and uh yeah it's it's it's all kind of building that foundation and and uh and and and really you know being very um I would say intentional about our actions and I'll can Keith here maybe elaborate on several things yeah you know I think that's uh one of the other things when we looked at this business uh you know we we did have funds uh to buy bigger uh and that's just part of being diligent over the last decade um you know and and I'll say I cash out my retirement my 401k um you know to to put toward this to to live on um you know and buying this size of business gave us an idea of how long we can survive how long we can make it so there was a lot of planning a lot of budgeting um you know I would say we're both pretty simple we're we're not going on lavish Vaca working you know um so there's there's not a lot of money spent uh on the extra things and we know what that minimum number is the the salary that we can take from the the business supports that uh at a minimum level and that allows us to to focus on the growth so you know ultimately we knew um we're going to be a little bit strapped uh but we will be able to survive and uh to me it's been working out well uh you know uh able to cover everything we need to cover we have opportunities for more growth and then you know the Consulting side allows us to bring in extra uh as well uh along as some of our other Ventures so uh you know we knew there was going to be be pain we knew there was going to be investment but uh ultimately uh at the end of the day um you know we're in good shape and and we can continue to maintain this but you know it continues to build every month as well every month you know revenue is growing bottom Line's growing so yeah so just to to be clear you guys have had some savings from well over a decade in corporate uh either liquid savings or in retirement Keith in your case you actually cashed out your retirement so in some some ways you're you're you're dipping into your savings you're you're leaning on your savings you also are paying somewhat out of something to yourselves out of the business yep so so you're so that that and then you've got the Consulting you'd mentioned that earlier I forgot to ask about it you've got kind of the Consulting and some other stuff that also supplements the income um and and this is how you're currently living and it's all below what your W2 salaries are but of course it's also just temporary and a supporting wife uh on my end well so that's that's that I think that's incredibly important uh you know totally been been together for more than a decade and she always knew that uh I uh this is this was my uh passion and and Mission and uh couldn't be more grateful for that because it's it's it's it's such an important piece data you know uh knowing that I'm going to spend more time on the call with my uh business partners than her uh for certain weeks and days uh and then fully supporting that uh can take that for granted because that's totally that's Keith you're you're his work wife yeah that's right um the uh I I do have to I do have to say guys you had did say that your search was successful when you went all in or when you kind of fully committed to it now you you did part-time search you didn't um so so obviously you're able to do anyway you did your part-time search but then the agreement was you were going to go all in on the business but in fact you you're still juggling multiple things now maybe you have to because the consulting stuff provides necessary income but um it it doesn't feel in fact like you're 110% in the cleaning business because you have other concerns as well yeah you know the thing I'll say is uh you know we uh we don't sleep much um so we are you know we're spending a good 12 14 hours a day on on uh service master uh and then we're supplementing in in those other areas um and um it's good relationships you know with Consulting it's not as time-based uh so you know whether it's a a Sunday or or whatever the case may be um we're able to do that but that's also part of that bigger Vision um right so we we're working on our own uh Self Storage development at the moment um you know real estate is going to be part of our portfolio in the future so um we do see it as part of that bigger picture while also uh you know continuing to grow and support service master at the same time okay so so it's not at um there's not opportunity cost to it there it is part of this holdco or portfolio of assets that you're building over absolutely what didn't we get to guys anything anything that we should have talked about and that I haven't yet asked you about one thing I like to mention will is the power of Partnerships uh I think it's I I I keep hearing it a lot in the in the space and I see a lot of you know more unsuccessful and struggling uh part than that than successful and I I think that's it's just so incredibly important to uh to understand you know this is something I I wish you know I I would like to communicate you know to the audience audience or or to folks in the industry because it is s it's one of the most most important decisions that you're going to make you know is that that power of Partnerships and uh and uh in our case you know I couldn't be more happy with you know Keith and Taylor coming along on this and just uh building it and because ultimately you're going to be pushed to the limits on you know extreme on very often occasions and understanding you know who basically the strength and and it's an evolving door right and being able to be vulnerable you know more and more vulnerable along the journey is just such an incredible piece and I I just you know I like to you know bring that out because it's it's it's it's incredible it could really Define the success or the failure of of your journey and also the road that you're kind of following right it's it's because you know right now right it's we have so much you know pain probably listeners listening to this is like man this sounds so painful but it's the best time I've had in my life like like this this like this this eight month is is the most fun I've ever had it's the most I felt life and it's I wouldn't change it for for for for for anything and that's because of the Partnerships and the Journey coming together and uh and I think that's that's very important and it could have gone on the other side fairly easy right like we had there's more reasons for for it to fail and to for for for it to to to be push so I just you know I wanna I want to just communicate that aspect I'm glad you did George that was that was great well George and Keith uh you you reached out to a lot of acquiring minds guests um so I as you know I always say at the end if people want to reach out to you how do you prefer they do that do you like George I guess you're on Twitter active on Twitter is that the best place or Linkin or somewhere else yeah Twitter and Linkedin are probably the best best ways you know looking to give back again I'm looking to uh to to be part of the community and uh however I can help uh definitely Twitter and uh and uh and Linkedin are two best ways for sure or just LinkedIn in your Cas just LinkedIn great well always remember audience that uh if you do ask one both of these gentlemen to hop on Zoom with you that you use their time uh respectfully and do your homework um because if you haven't yet gleaned it from the episode These are a couple of busy guys um so their time is is precious George T Bill Keith Fields thank you very much for coming on acquiring minds congratulations on uh this first acquisition of what I'm sure will be many more thanks well thank you will and thank you for everything you do for the community appreciate it thanks George I hope you enjoyed that interview make sure you subscribe to the acquiring minds Channel below we are now publishing twice a week so tons of new interviews and stories to come stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business