En este capítulo de Por Qué Tenía Que Decirlo, Julio César y Neme conversan con la periodista Alejandra Matus sobre el extraño momento político de Chile 🫨 ¿Estamos frente a una sociedad que actúa como niño con pataleta? ¿Por qué seguimos esperando que un político nos solucione la vida entera? 🤷♀️ Matus lanza dardos sobre la inmadurez política del país, el voto con rabia, y la peligrosa idea de que “el que grita más, gana”. Todo eso y más, en esta conversación sin anestesia ✨ Todos los jueves a las 19:00 hrs por @somosyuly #PorQuéTeníaQueDecirlo
We're back, we're here again. Why did I have to say it? We don't take any weeks off because, to be honest, people ask us for it, José Antonio. And today we have a debate. We have a debate. We invited her. Yes, it was difficult, she dropped out of several because a winner has a privileged position, so her strategy has been to remain silent. No, that's a lie. What lie? They already invited me at 2 pm, I said, "Yes, where am I going?" Imagine me as a presidential candidate, right? How terrible. What a terrible thing . But you'd say, I don't know, but you guys have a look. Yes, well. Ah, de cande ten de cando. Yes, yes, you have a Cando look. Okay, let's see, right away, the same command. Yeah, yeah. Who is your finance minister? Who will be your finance minister? He knows how to add up how they voted in parliament, all those questions. Perform a statistical regression. Hey Ale, how are you? I'm fine. Are you okay? All things considered. Within my serious condition. Stable within my gravity. Like Chile. Yes. Hey, but Ale, you're super muscular and fierce, we have to do something, you know. It must be done, then. What are we going to do? Hey, did you enjoy the whole process? No, let's talk about the big process of this new election, the general process of No, I'm like the old lady of the mopeds or the old men of the mopeds, as I'm already old, so I put myself on the balcony like this, oh, look, to ball games, to peel, to peel, to appeal, to appeal. I'm taking a seat in the stands, but in a good way. Yes, don't call me yellow. Already. And what did you see from the balcony? from the balcony. Well, beyond the merits or proposals of the candidates, everyone will have their own opinion, but it seems to me that we are going around in circles, that we continue in a Chile incapable of processing the profound social demands, the demands for recognition of certain people. We have also not been able to talk, to say, I do n't know, how we women want men to be, for example . Men have also failed to listen to what women are asking for. And then there are many people with a lot of anger who hit a wall or who decide with their gut, but in reality doing what needs to be done is difficult, it is complex, it is not easy, nobody has the single solution in their hands and therefore it is not done. Well, it's not done. It's like when I was 30. My issue is that we're not trying to do it because we talked about it last week when we were alone with José Antonio because we were hoping he was coming to the show, right? But no no no no we said the same thing at the beginning of the program. Clear. So, uh, José Antonio and I talked about it last week, there's a discussion about politics that doesn't match with the citizens, but the citizens also, let's say, the citizens also sometimes behave like a child throwing a tantrum who wants things done for them, who wants their butts wiped, who wants them to be given food. You too, we are all political agents and if you want something to work, for something to happen, well, get organized, look for it, vote for the candidates who are going to be, demand that they do what they say they did, what they are going to do, but don't be like a customer in front of a supermarket complaining because the detergent doesn't remove the stains it said it would. Well, yes, we do have a very clientelistic behavior, I agree. And society in general has it, that is, we have the politicians that we have created, that we have created. When you look at other societies, the intermediate states, the intermediate statutes, let 's say, groups of all kinds, they have a voice and take a political position, they are political agents, I 'm not thinking, I don't know, from the National Rifle Association to, I don't know , the poodle dog group, to give an example, or the defenders. I remember being in Miami at a time when I thought American society was very little politicized, and everyone organized to defend the citrus fruits, the orange trees they had planted in their homeland. Because? Because a plague came in, and then the state said, "Well, this plague could affect orange production, which is one of the most important products in the country. And therefore, we're going to, as would happen in Chile, go and eliminate everything because the fruit fly has arrived ." Clear. And the people would let the man who took the tree come in and pull it out. Well, no, the gringos told me, "No, I planted this tree when my daughter was born, and I don't give a damn . The orange and citrus industry isn't my business. I'm a citizen who owns a citrus tree, and they're not going to cut it down." And they organized themselves and organized themselves and they couldn't cut down the trees and they had to find another way to control the plague. So, when the citizens in Chile, when there was no other way to solve the issue of the lack of resources for the pandemic, the window opened, the idea of taking the money from the FP, there was not even a possibility of demonstrating. People pressed with their eyes through the computer screen. Clear. And everyone had to vote in favor of the withdrawal. In other words, it is possible, it is possible to organize and exercise power. Then will come the discussion of whether it was sensible or not, and how much the withdrawals influenced inflation. Why is Chilean society in this state of chronic passivity? Because, well, because I think that we are also children of our traumas, because there was a society that was organized, that was active and all, and then the coup d'état happened. And guess who the peasants who had received a plot of land from the cora killed, the union leaders. Yes , being very active is dangerous. It's dangerous, and people know it, and labor laws know that those who know, who defend, let's organize, let's form a union two weeks later, but at some point you have to get out of the loop because if you wait for solutions to come from above, for some enlightened person or someone to come and bring you all the solutions to your problems, it's not going to happen. But it also has to do with talking about the same thing. I agree with this point about civil society, but there is also a political class that I don't see as really interested in discussing the things they should be discussing, and in the right place. Who sets the tone for what we talk about? The elite. Well, the elites set the tone for what we talk about. I think that nowadays the conversation is set by the, uh, it's set by the communications departments of the Carabineros and the PDI and it's set by the, uh, the pollsters. That's what we talked about because the implantologist, the pollsters, they have n't implanted me, have they? Surveys, survey companies. Every Sunday you receive a survey in your inbox with certain questions. It's free. Journalists, the media, we all know, the media is in crisis, you don't have to send a journalist to report anywhere. Take the survey, comment on it, fill it in for an hour, half an hour, another half hour, fill it in with the reports. It's the elite that gets you involved, for example, we spent a week talking about how CAS went to see Frey. Who cares about Frey? Who cares? What votes does Frey have? So, Frey, who is Frey? So, Fredy came back to life because Carlos went to see him, right? Nobody, I mean, who's going to say, "I'm going to vote for Carlos?" Because he went to see Frey. And that issue became headline news, front page discussion, 45 minutes of radio coverage. Yes, but the media also choose to give them space. But that's why I'm telling you it's a conversation that defines the elite, you know. Clear. Ah, and the elite, the elite in everything with all its components of things, with all its components and me and are part of this too. To this day, union leaders are prohibited from running for Congress because they are a remnant of the 1980 Constitution. If there were union leaders, if there were environmental leaders, if there were leaders in Congress, perhaps there would be other conversations, but you have to choose candidates who are not part of the organizations. So, who does he choose? A rooster that appears on TV for any reason has a better chance. The TV thing was bad, you know. But you put it in the template. Yes, but wait, there's one thing that's right. I understand, a passive society, violently curtailed in its activism in '73, with lingering fears, I'm beginning to understand, with highly atomized groups in politics and media that set the agenda and separate themselves from what people think, and people who expect their problems to be solved instead of being political agents, right? But the result of the first round revealed something quite strange, didn't it? People didn't go looking for solutions from traditional politicians; that is, they know that traditional politics doesn't solve anything. Then, he let the left fall into its most resounding collapse since the 1950s. And when we talk about the right, pay attention, the classic right is in hiding. In other words , Evely Matei was completely sidelined, and the real winners in all of this were Kaiser and Paris, who do come from somewhere else, perhaps from that place of political agent that each of us should be, right? I believe that democracy really hinges on the breadth of the electoral roll, and Chile made a decision, heavily encouraged by academics, that the electoral roll had to be total, meaning we are all part of the roll, and that voting had to be mandatory. Because? Because everyone, uh, uh, because if it's not mandatory, the most educated people with the most money vote and impose the agenda. But this happened, this happened like the Santiago bus system, without a pilot plan. Then they all suddenly entered the electoral register without... Of course, these are people with whom politics has not done any work because they were not votes, just as prisoners are not votes, just as children are not votes. So these are people, sectors that are always left out, left behind in public policies because they don't have access to them. In this election, they all came in at once and made the decision they made, and I think it's perfectly sensible and rational for the people they are voting for. But do you think they voted? I mean, what happens is that if voting had to go hand in hand with civic education, would we return to a sensitivized vote? No, I'm not saying it has to go the other way around. As you say, there is a group that enters the electoral register without politics having approached those people. So, they voted from a place of depoliticization, let's say. Clear. And that's fine. Oh, and that's fine. Okay. Alright. And that's fine. Now, the work of the parties now, because the parties, Chilean democracy is a representative democracy. It means that political parties represent and uh but as but the smaller the register, that is, with voluntary voting, with voluntary registration, the register is very small. So, the parties serve minorities. Of course, when the electorate is large, that's the result of this election. Now, of course, now the parties have to reform themselves, of course, they have to build a mass narrative, because they do n't have a mass narrative, they do n't have a narrative for many sectors of the population that don't have a political representative and those people voted for those who seemed to them to be the most trustworthy representatives at this time. Well, but democracy works with mass narratives. And I'll give you an example: the municipalities. I mean, there you have several mayors who, due to force, by default, because they carry out direct governance, have to build a mass narrative and they achieve it with some success. Of course, if democracy is government of the people, that is, the people are a giant group of... What do you think, Parisi? He wants Matu's opinion on the Parisy Gate. Look, Parisi doesn't seem to be the same Parisi I knew. The Parisi I knew was a very arrogant, very macho man. Uh, in what context? How long ago? I once had to drive a panel van. It wasn't a panel. He went to present to the students of the Diego Portales University and I was asked to moderate. Uh, his presentation and the rooster came in, he had a press chief who was furious, furious, I don't know his name, but the jerk was making this gesture to me before the presidential elections. Of course not, before the presidential elections he was a candidate. So I asked him how he financed his campaign and the press chief over there, well, Paris came and sat here, he put his butt in my face in front of you. I was sitting here at the table, he had to sit there, he came, sat there looking at the audience over there and turned his back on you . My butt did n't get in my face. Thus, he conducted the audience and made a great apology for how the girls fell head over heels for a man who had political leadership. That was part of his speech. That was the previous presidential election. So what does a profile do? Clar. Imagine, imagine the... and this was before it was known that he wasn't paying child support. I formed a terrible opinion of the candidate and his press officer, Tonado, but I think that from there he has moved to a discourse that is representative, and that's where I'm going because the candidates are not them. The candidates represent others, and in this transformation of Paris into a representative person, he represents people who until now have been outside of politics, who want clear, sensible solutions to certain problems, but also want to be recognized, they want to be seen, and, for example, the northerners feel that they are not seen from Santiago because they are not seen. Clear. So, he adopts a new character that is more representative of a population that until now had been detached from politics. He could become president of Chile. I think it's a foregone conclusion today, but watch out for the candidates with 20%. Guiler, that is, Guilier, Meo, Beatriz Sánchez, that is, there has been something like a curse. There are several, several, there are several. Ah, the thing is, it seems he has to put up with this. It can fall. The thing is, I think it depends a lot on who the president is, yes, but he has all the elements. In my opinion, he has transformed himself, and that is a sign of political wisdom. The same Parisi that I knew at UDP, if he had been a candidate, would not have gotten fewer votes than Kaise, but he transformed himself. He's cunning, cunning, cunning. He went out with Pamela Giles, who is also another person who I think is politically undervalued. I believe she has enormous political capacity and I think she has built a force there that, if applied with wisdom and intelligence, can become a new political party that will be stronger than the Broad Front. the same energy that Franco puts into things because they are, uh, very personalistic movements. So, if Franco doesn't put in the effort, if he travels abroad, if everything falls apart like his party did, which had so many seats, they disappeared. Now I think that party would have fallen apart anyway if he had stayed here because those parliamentarians who were from the PDG did n't have a common narrative either, right? Clear. And then yes, but unifying it is there, that's where you need a leader, to be able to maintain a little bit, especially when there are situations, but now there is more narrative. That's not an ideological narrative, but there are other narratives. Let's talk about Grandma. which is heavy. She's my friend. She's my friend. No, I think Pamela Giles likes the purse when she comes here . Which I love. I carry her purse, I arrange it so she feels comfortable. We see grandpa's ball and all that stuff. I believe that Pamela Giles is one of the most skillful politicians in the area, and that she has indeed been underestimated, belittled, and bullied. And why hasn't she been able to bring the grandfather along? Because I believe that people are sensible, if people aren't stupid when they vote , I mean, they know they're voting out of love, they love it, they vote for it. Well, he didn't put it in out of love, sorry. Oh, Jul. Well, but today Alejandra and I worked on a reaction together, less the jokes, less. Oh, it can also be included for another reason. That's why I'm telling you, but also because of that. That's why too . Clear. So she installs it, she installs it out of love, because she wants it, because she wants everyone to appreciate it as much as they appreciate her, but no, the people, the voters appreciate her, not the husband. Yes. Well, and a good sign too. Yes, that's a good sign. I find that to be a sensible sign. Sensible. So, what's going to happen on the 14th and what's going to happen after the 14th? I do n't know what's going to happen 14. Ah, I mean, look, I think that the wheel of fortune, the goddess, has turned the wheel in favor of CAS, there's no doubt about that . In other words, if CAS doesn't move, if it doesn't make a mistake, it has the election won. But there are 14 days, a little more chance of making a mistake, and you can almost make a mistake, and you can make a big mistake, and as things stand today in the Paul Position, if you make a mistake you can lose, and I think one mistake you've already made is underestimating the PDG. That's not having gone to the program, what's it called? to say, "No, I don't need Parisi's votes." Be careful, because I think that's also a mistaken idea, to believe that Parisi's votes are only in that 20% and not in Kaiser's, not in part of Matei's, not in part of CAS's. So, I think that if he really downplays a vote there, the Parisi vote, I like it because I'm fascinated by the Parisi vote because it's a vote of people who are, in a way, confused or fed up with politicians or who want something new, who don't really know what they want, but they don't want that. I mean, I mean, who says that Franco's speeches suddenly sound so simple? Simple, isn't it? He likes TikTok more, he likes it here when one of us only wanted to be a TikTok. So it turns out that he is a very simple, very straightforward person in that sense. Ah, he's very good at illustrating things in economic terms and explaining the simple things . It has always been handled well for a long time. Ah, uh, remember that he was the first one to mention the FP loans in the year of the Cocoa. Uh, so I like that vote because it's from people you don't know who they're going to vote for, right? So, it already happened in the last election, right? You don't really know who he's going to vote for, no, you don't know, and I agree with AL on that. In other words, we also have to work for that vote, not a vote that's already won, not a vote that someone has completely. Now, you can't ignore it either. Nor can you say that it fits perfectly in certain situations. Now I want to take up José Antonio's challenge, almost as a guest on the program. Thank you. Almost like a guest on the show. Well, whatever happens, from March 11th of next year we are going to have 4 very particular and special years for the press. I mean, this is like a Santiago- Sao Paulo flight plus turbulence. A lot of turbulence. Hold on to the next one. Whatever happens . Whatever happens . Why, no matter what happens? Whatever happens . Because I think that if we continue with Canara, we'll probably keep going in the same direction, right? No, no, no. So, with the Republican caucus on steroids, right? With Chile, we had decreased. If Jara wins, he will face opposition. Pamela Chile, who will be in opposition to whoever. Pamela. Yes, Pamela is going to be in opposition to Grandma. I love it, I love it. Solitaria is going to be entertaining for journalists for the next 4 years. A 14-member bloc. It's going to be entertaining for journalists for the next 4 years. And because nowadays it is also more difficult to be corrupt. Ah, they're catching on more now, there are more ways to do it, there's more inquisitive journalism and there are also investigations that are more successful . So I think they're going to leave because when I look at the political map, I see few people who are truly working for the common good, for politics. I see few stories, speeches, I don't see anyone capable of doing anything epic. No, no, there is no epic, there is no epic, there is no epic. You used to be like that, the old guys would arrive, grab a microphone, say, "We want this," and gather hope, passion, epic moments, dreams, dreams. Damn, we want to do something like Chile because even Trump has epic moments, dude. The lazy gringo and the and the factory, lazy bum. Dude, that guy is epic. Mr. President, we lack leaders with epic vision here. And I'm not talking about the presidential elections, I'm speaking in general. Overall, everything is flat. When Manucheri throws the 10 grand to Congressman Araya, it was like a political trailer for me. One of them goes to accuse him, throws him the 10 grand and the other one looks at the 10 grand and keeps talking. I mean, the idiot didn't even say, "What's wrong with you?" Nothing, nothing, nothing. And the hon didn't even, resp No, he had something to say and he kept talking. It's just the way it is, it's strange, it happens to me as a citizen. It's all strange. It's strange, isn't it? It's not a very watered-down policy, is it? But I'm also appealing to our guild, you know? I don't expect much from politicians, and I don't want to expect much either; frankly, I'm not interested in them at all, but I am interested in journalists. And I would like, I know there are different styles and I understand that, but I would like a more insolent journalistic conversation, a little more insolent, a little more provocative, a little more. I could spend the next 4 years. It's not that I do n't see the space; I find that you two are quite provocative, insolent. There are two of us in one ocean, are n't there? But there are two of them. Look, at UDP a survey was done, which was done on purpose, but in person. Ah, in person, important, in person or with those email scratch panels, uh, where one question was, who do you follow? spontaneous. Already. So people, I don't know, Mr. Beast already, spirit, already all there a mix matamala, chilado, and the colleague Neme 1% in spontaneous mentions, that is, only those who exceeded the 1% barrier were put on the lists. So, a list of people that all of Chile follows, uh, and that follow the "And where was that done?" at UDP and comrade Neme is there, Julito César is not. Well, they do n't follow me. I'm already out of fashion. You're out of fashion. You took the position. No, because once you got involved, they took away the rebellion. What rebellion. Now I am very happy because I don't want anyone to follow me. At one point, when they followed me, I had a lot of problems. Yes, it 's a bit of a mess; they even put a presidential poll on me. A little bit back. Many problems. Yes, it's a little bit backwards. Between her, between her, between her, on the day the poll comes out I have to interview the PS candidate, the lady who Narvae, Narváe, and I came out with more votes than her. It was very uncomfortable then, was n't it? For example, I find it funny when he confides in me; that situation on TV was very awkward. I'm going to say something controversial, are n't I? But when the candidacy of whoever it is, Jara, Toá, they bring in the figures of socialism or democratic socialism, who have they beaten with their candidates. So, they put Guil first, we talked last week, bye. Narvadas, bye. In other words, they are not election experts, they are not campaign workers. We talked about it last week. No, but they're not reading, they're not reading, they're not reading. Okay, listen, let's get to the interesting part. Are you researching something, writing something? I'm about to release my book about the play I wrote about the lady. No, no, the play, yes, but the play is the asylum against oppression that has Pinochet, Luceria, Alyende and Juan Gabriel as protagonists. Brilliant. A comedy. So, that's going to be the book I'm going to publish. I'm about to retire as a professor at Portales University, so my plans were to have a pension at 65, but now I'm turning 60. Hey, what are they like? Hón esperar te hac una cuestión que todos los beneficios 65. Una es una perdón, pero es una huevada que, perdón, se me fue el Es una es una huevada que estamos hablando y disputando y alegamos y critica y nos aye a la tele con Piñera vivo. Yes, well, back then at the end they would say, "It's not some stupid thing you say now, you 66." In other words, this issue, not only with Bachelé but also the child bonus. The bonus, of course, at age 65 is something that, well, the numbers don't add up for economists, right? Of course. While it's closing, the Ex tablet isn't closing. Hey, uh, Ari, where would you like to travel? I am actually going to travel to South Africa. I love South Africa. What a great destination. What a great destination. And you too can travel with Despegar.com because Despegar is killing it and it's incredible. South Africa is a great destination. Canada is a great destination. Canada is a tremendous destination, man. New York is a great destination. No, I can't go to New York because they won't give me a visa. No, because they're checking all the social media and Oh, but you weren't a student. You already had a green car. Yes, I had a green car and everything, but they have caught people with residency, with nationality, and the same goal. Japan is a great destination. At Despegar, you'll find the solution for everything. The truth is that Despegar has airlines, hotels, cruises, insurance, packages, everything. Oh, and check out the physical stores too, download the app and much more. Take off, live traveling. What's more, I love it. Hey, let's say hi to Mundo, to the world, Mundo, Mundo is the best. It is the fastest network in Latin America. Yes, well, we'll make it that short . Ah, don't keep staring at how amazing everyone else's house is. Awarded as the fastest in Latin America for 4 years. www.tumundo.clundo no Bson is breaking it. I'll tell you about it and all the sponsorships. Yes, yes. You like feeling confident and having a good time. 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Sunscreen factor 50 240 meg only 8,590 Leblon variety of sunscreen factor 50 190 g at only 3,990 everything you need is at Cruz Verde, the pharmacy of low prices Cruz Verde and we have to go. We're leaving. Alejandra, thank you for coming. We enjoyed watching you. Thank you. Uh, no, no, bad, bad, bad. We enjoyed watching you. We enjoyed watching you. No, we really enjoyed it. We enjoyed ourselves. I have enjoyed it too. And the work that is already being done, the work has been on display for about two years. We 're not showing it right now, but that's the time she's writing it, and that's when it's going to be released as a book. So, if he wants to give it as a Christmas gift, he has to look for it. He's going to write it in prose; it's not written in the script. The thing is, it bothered me, and that's why I brought it up again because I know the time has come. Sure, now the book is coming out, the book in Concepción I also had a very famous performance with it, I mean, uh, basically you'll be able to have the text, the text, a good Christmas present. Great, let's go. Thank you so much. Bye. Ciao. Cha c chao chao.