So good afternoon everyone and welcome to this month's Welsh business hero session. My name is Julia Perry. I'm one of the local enterprise managers for Nat West. Um at Nest supporting an enterprise is key for us and my role is focused um solely on supporting entrepreneurs throughout their journey. I can undertake consultations and connect entrepreneurs with other professionals, businesses and services that can assist them. We bring relevant and inspiring content such as our session today and of course highlight all of the support Nat West has to offer including our accelerator program, our business builder online platform which allows you to pick short educational modules on a wide range of entrepreneurial topics so you can learn what you want and when you want to learn it. All of this support um that we offer can be accessed by anybody for free. So please do get in touch if you want to find out more. For today's Welsh Business Hero session, we'll be chatting with Jack Leah um of Body Socks and Ji Trading and we're really proud that we've teamed up with Lanska Business Solutions to deliver this series of events um to celebrate our successful Welsh entrepreneurs. The series has been designed to inspire, educate, and encourage people to create, build, and grow their very own successful businesses right here in Wales. So, I'll shortly be handing you over to Jeremy to take you through our session today. I'll be in the background. So, please do feel free to ask any questions as they come to you um or use the Q&A function or chat functions or direct message um into me. Um and I'll put those questions or comments to Jack at the end. So without further ado, I'll hand you straight across to Jeremy. I'll see you all later in the session. Over to you, Jeremy. >> Great. Thanks, Julia. Well, good afternoon everyone. Bandau, I'm Jeremy, the managing director of Lansker Business Solutions. We're an independent management consultancy based in Commander and we've worked in Wales for the last 20 years working with some of the most inspiring um small to medium-sized enterprises. And what we do is help them to grow, uh, change, diversify, and generally prosper. We're delighted to be working with Nat West uh, to showcase some of the bestmemes in Wales. And I've got the very fortunate task of speaking to some of Wales's established and emerging business heroes, to find out what makes them tick, to learn about their business journey, and to give them an opportunity to share some thoughts and insights, which we hope will be of interest and inspire you. Uh today is the seventh in our series and our Welsh business hero is Jack Lear, founder and now managing director of JLI Trading uh an online e-commercebased business that runs three businesses. Bodyox, a costume design and supply business, one of the biggest in the UK. Bargain Fox, similar to an online TK Maxx and Jobalots, a relatively new venture which deals with the bulk reselling of goods that are returned to major retailers which are then remarketed, auctioned and sold by jobalots. Uh so Jack's age 28, didn't go to university, choosing instead to remain in Pemmer on the family farm where he was brought up. Uh at just age 16 and still at school, Jack started sourcing and selling spandex fancy dress costumes and other garments online, which was the beginning of body socks, his first branded business. Jack currently employs 30 staff from large warehouse premises in Pemret dock, which brings in, sorts, and sells goods entirely online. Effectively, Jack's businesses all focus on e-commerce and great customer fulfillment. products are sold throughout the UK and abroad and turnover has increased significantly over the last three years. The business has great plans for further growth and innovation, but I'll let Jack tell us about those things um later. So, our conversation today will focus on Jack's motivations as a young man um and we'll follow several themes. how he started his business activities. Um, how he developed his three businesses without having any core business training or qualifications. How he creates and implements his ideas for his very innovative businesses and the challenges and rewards arising from running a very successful but largely unknown online business from Pemrook. And our conversation will end with Jack commenting on what he would have done differently if he'd had his time again. what his top tips are for the future and what the future holds for Body Socks, Bargain Fox, Job Lots and other ideas which I'm sure he has. So, welcome Jack. Thanks very much for joining us and agreeing to share some of your thoughts. >> Good afternoon. Thanks Jeremy. >> Great. Well, let's start. Let's get in straight into this. So, tell us a bit about your background and how you started your business career. >> So, grew up in Penukshire uh in the countryside. Went to school in Tambi. Um, from a very young age I had an interest in business and uh, my dad, I remember my dad sent me a sent to me when I was 15. He said, "Jack, learn to make websites." I didn't really see the value back then, but he said, "Make websites and you can charge, you know, charge people to make them." Um, so he gave me his old work laptop and I did. I learned learned to code websites. Um, which later became a very valuable skill for me. Um, >> so did it come naturally? What? Coding websites. >> Yeah. Did you find you engaged with tech quite early on >> quite easily? Yeah. I found it quite quite quite straightforward. >> Yeah. >> Thing is Google's got the answer to everything. Right. So if you don't know something, you can Google it. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That was really easy for me. So using the money I made from websites, I then reinvested that and I started buying and selling and I found that was much more exciting. I found that was far more engaging than actually sitting at a computer and coding. So I really enjoyed that. And how did body socks come about? What um spurred you to choose that as a sort of an idea? Was it something that you felt was novel? There wasn't much in the marketplace or how did that come about? >> No, it was far more straightforward than that actually. I needed a fancy dress costume. Um there it was 40 pound for a costume. I remember this so clearly. And I wasn't going to spend 40 on a costume when I could buy a hundred for £1,000 from China. >> Okay. Yeah. >> That was that was the logic behind it. Um, I thought I just sell these. I'll sell these online. And I did. They sold really fast. So, following my first load of 100 costumes from China, I branded it and I called it body socks. >> Okay. And then for body socks, I believe you now design your own costumes and get them made elsewhere. Is that correct? >> Absolutely. Yeah. So, I designed the first few costumes. Uh, I must say they they were very badly designed. I'm not very good at drawing. That was my uh that was a an issue for me. But my sister, she was she's absolutely absolutely amazing at at art and and very creative. So, she later helped me design the costumes. Um, which we then copyrighted in Europe and America. And her designs became some of the top selling costumes in the world. I mean, last year the Halloween costume, our doctor costume, it's like a illusion. It's inflatable. It looks really, really clever. She designed that. That was the top selling Halloween costume in the UK, if not the world. >> Wow. Wow. Fantastic. So when you started off, Jack, I mean, did you have any sort of role models or people who you looked up to which sort of inspired you? >> My mom for sure. I used to go to uh agricultural shows with her when I was very young. Um you know, I used to see how business was conducted, how how sales were negotiated. Um you know, I think following that I found uh I found it quite easy, especially when you're not dealing with Welsh farmers. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I think also like people like Richard Branson, they're they're very inspiring for me >> and reading reading his autobiography um when I was 16, you know, he left school from a young age as well. And that kind of gave me a little bit of confidence to think actually, you know, he's done it. It's possible to leave school and start a business and run it yourself successfully from a young age. >> Okay. And do you read much you about the sort of, you know, books from other people who are sort of self-made? Is that something which you get a lot of interest and stimulus from? >> I don't really actually. No, I do a lot of research. Uh I don't really read that too many books and autobiographies. I do find it quite inspiring. >> Yeah. >> So you can listen to talks on TED talks for example on YouTube. I like that. Um but I haven't really read too many auto I'm too busy. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. So after you bought your first sort of hundred items um you know spandex and you kicked off with body socks and you thought well I've got something you this is going well. What were the key steps for you to take that from being a sort of a hobby or more or less lifestyle business to something more substantial? What were the key milestones in that growth? Jack, >> I think it's when we started designing the costumes in house. You know, we started really nailing down the costumes, looking at the trends, seeing what was popular, um, and then copyrighting those designs, protecting our intellectual property. >> Yeah, >> it was too expensive to register copyright in America and in Europe. So, I learned to do that myself. Actually, it's very very straightforward. Um, you know, I'm sure a lot of >> solicitors wouldn't want to say that, but once you >> probably not >> once once you've done it once, you know how to do it. You can save a lot of money. You know, we're registering sort of up to sort of 50 designs. >> Well, you know, you're going to it's going to cost you a lot of money if you get a a legal practice to do that for you. And and and in reality, you can probably do that for just a two or three,000 um if you can do it yourself. >> Okay. But probably the biggest milestone was more recent. It was, you know, just actually surviving COVID. Um, you know, because just before the pandemic started, I actually committed myself and signed contracts to 200,000 costumes. >> Wow. >> So, yeah, coming coming out of the pandemic and and actually surviving was was probably the biggest achievement I've I've made and >> biggest milestone for the body socks. >> And do you and has that marketplace returned now? Are you confident it's going to return and improve? >> Absolutely. Yeah, it's it's it's mostly back. In fact, we're we're we're beyond now pre-COVID sales with body socks. Um a little bit turbulent, you know, with certain countries, different regulations. We sell we sell internationally, not just in the UK. So, >> turbulent there, but I think um I think you know the general consensus is people are cracking on now. We can't be living in in our homes forever. >> Okay. So I know you you know you haven't done a business studies degree or been off to uni or anything like that and you talked about IP which a lot of people are very fearful of as being very technical and expensive and a bit of a sort of a dark art a dark art. I mean what formal training or development have you done to develop your business? Have you learned as you as you've gone trial and error? What's your sort of learning process Jack? >> Absolutely that. Yeah, just learn as I go. Um a lot of trial and error. There's a lot of mistakes I make. I think that the key is to make less mistakes than than right choices, right? So, uh I think as long as you get that just right, you know, you you'll succeed in life. But yeah, make a lot of mistakes, try and learn from that. But I think like learning from Google, learning from the internet, speaking to people. I learned a lot from speaking to people. Um you just got to get get stuck in. You can't be worried about not knowing the answer. Sometimes I I'll do something I won't even know how to do it. And you'll learn as you're you know, as you're trying it. Okay. So, where does your creativity and inspiration comes from? If you you know, if you think of a good idea or something, what what's that spark which gets you thinking there may be a business opportunity here? Can you elaborate on that? >> I think probably going on walks, uh listening to music in the shower, maybe going going on holiday. Those those ideas don't normally come from when I'm in work. Um maybe operational ideas specifically around you know the day-to-day operation of the business might come from when I'm in work but more long-term more vision ideas will be a slower development maybe speaking to people as well about different things and that then slowly the idea progresses. So you have a sort of eureka moment where you think about it and then do you then sort of test it out? Do you sound it out with some of your colleagues? Do a bit more research before thinking this idea might have legs. I want to pursue it. >> Exactly that. Um I mean when we started Bargain Fox it was a a tricky time. You know it was just we just entered pandemic and costumes weren't selling. So we needed to start a business quickly and diversify very fast to get money into the bank to to pay for the costumes we contractually signed and whatnot. who were, you know, in a lot of trouble. But that, for example, was was mostly logic. You think about it. You think what's working at the moment in the current climate, online sales is booming. You've got consumer goods that's also booming. And people are trying to save money. So, why not sell consumer goods at a bargain price? >> It seemed very logical what we were doing. I mean, one one of the first products we sell selling on Bargain Fox was loads of beard trimmers and they were just absolutely flying out the door because you know when the barbers are closed where what you going to do buy a beard trimmer or or you know or shaver. So they sold really well uh and that sort of set their precedent then to to expand into into thousands of different products. >> Okay. And where is Bargain Fox now? How's that going? It's been it's been a challenge actually trying to trying to balance this algorithm um between how much you spend on advertising and how much you receive in sales. It's been really tricky. So my my goal from the start was to try and retain existing customers which which we do we do effective do successfully but >> really retain them so they become really loyal um and effectively spend less on advertising. And it's taken us a couple of years, actually, almost two years, to get to where we are now and to where our our advertising has proportionately dropped off and we're seeing a much much higher percent of of returning customers. >> Okay. And and you know, all of your businesses are sort of online. So, how have you developed your understanding of SEO and being found and fulfillment and other that bits? Did you rely on external parties to guide you or is it mostly done by trial and error? >> That's quite you know paramount when you when you're creating websites. So when I was 15 started you know learning to code websites. It's all part of the website development. You need to understand the SEO element of it um and build a website with that in mind really. So I understood that from a young age and the importance of it. Um so that element was quite easy for me. And do you use metrics a lot to sort of manage the business so you know you know where you are within the sort of the three brands that you operate? >> Definitely. Yeah, there's a lot of metrics I'm looking at. Um, you know, our e-commerce platforms are on Shopify and you can really quickly look at your dashboard and see exactly what you know what your sales are, what returning customers returning customer rate is and and whatnot. This more detailed analysis we run as well. You know, within within a few seconds I can find a lot of the metrics. Um they're not not nothing complicated, but that within a few minutes you can get all the information you need >> and just focusing on the right things. >> That's it. Exactly. >> Yeah. And do you have a formal business plan? >> You don't. Yeah, I I do in my head. Um that sounds a bit stupid. >> You don't really need a business plan unless you're trying to explain to somebody else what your ideas are. >> Yeah. >> Or trying to raise finance or maybe just for yourself to make sure it's clear. But if you understand it and you're you're clear with what you know what your what your plan is in your head, you don't really need it. Um that's that's kind of how how I think of it. It's maybe just a way to portray your idea to somebody else. >> Okay. And do you have a sort of reasonably clear vision of where you want to be? >> I mean the last two years we're just trying to keep our head above water trying to survive. Um it's been really really big challenge but so try not to look too far into the future trying to be realistic. Um yeah, we kind of have plans um you know how we're going to move forward, how we're going to achieve that. >> Okay, so um what's a sort of typical working week for you? Do you have a sort of a fixed rotor? Uh how do you operate, Jack? >> Good question. I mean, I try I try it's very diverse. Um, no single day is is is the same, but I have to try not to have too much of a fixed, you know, schedule because it's really important to have free time to maybe fix something. You know, there's always issues that arise or implement a new idea. That's also quite key as well. So, I mean, normal normal day for me would be get up in the morning, go straight to the gym or crossfit. Um, I mean, work probably about half 7, quick coffee, I'll have a walk around the warehouse, I'll speak to everyone. Um and that's where that's where lot a lot of the ideas are made as well I think with within the business and speaking to people really helps you know either solidify your idea or find new ideas by speaking see where the problems are and then making making those fixes. Then I've normally got one or two meetings a day. I try not to get too many meetings and it just uh you know it clogs up the day. It locks you in and it makes you less free to to get implement uh new ideas or or fix issues. So I don't I don't like them too much. one quick meeting one quick meeting in the morning um and maybe match one in the afternoon. >> Okay. Okay. And uh so so jobots is your newest venture. So tell me how that came about and perhaps you could explain sort of the the strategy for jobotss and what it is because it's a very innovative new service. Tell us a bit about that if you would. I mean, I'd like to say, you know, you know, envisioned the potential of Job Lots from the start, but I think in reality, we started Bargain Fox and, you know, Bargain Fox retails all kinds of consumer goods and we purchase the goods from major retailers. Um, and we don't necessarily get to choose exactly what stock arrives. So, all the lries are turning up on our yard every day. We buy the buy it buy the lorry load, for example, in the contracts. So you don't decide what comes which means inevitably you're going to have you know um goods that you don't necessarily want to sell or too costly too heavy too big lots of criteria that doesn't fit. So as a side business just to clear our imagery we can't sell we started Jobalots um I didn't quite realize the potential of what we created at the time but now it's become much clearer to me you know Jobots is a is an auction platform that actually assists retailers in clearing their overstock customer returns and these are products that aren't economical to store or check over and this industry wouldn't want to put exactly clear value on it, but you're talking, you know, hundreds of billions probably. It's a huge huge market and we're just based in the UK at the moment. Um, I mean, we launched we launched the website in July, but we didn't really start doing auctions until December. You know, we're going to take in over three million pounds in the first in the first year. So, it's just gone it's just actually blown up. Um, we're looking at tripling that, quadrupling that potentially next year. So, there's there's massive room for potential for growth. Um and that doesn't even begin you know our plan is to move into Europe and uh and further a field. >> Okay. Okay. So you've got you know three online businesses that a lot of core competencies there and similarities you know between them but how do you spread your time across the three different businesses or I mean do you manage them as three separate items or is it three brands within the overall businesses and you share resources? How do you how do you manage them collectively? >> We definitely share resources across all three brands and that actually makes us more efficient. So my time is split across all three. So the warehouse we got, you know, one big warehouse in Pem do and you wouldn't really know the three brands operating under the same roof because the same people are picking the orders, the same people are packing the orders. It's the same infrastructure, the sh the same forklifts. It's much more efficient. So we save a lot of money. Um and that's kind of how we do it. >> Okay. Okay. And um with a lot of high growth businesses, the sort of the MD or founder often becomes the sort of the the restrictive uh fact for further growth because they've got so much knowledge and um so much capability and sometimes they have a sort of reluctance to sort of delegate and to other people. How have you sort of developed your key personnel to support you to maintain that strategic view? >> Yes, it's a good question. I mean, I think it's really really key first of all to to find a good management squad, you know, find some really good managers that are trustworthy and reliable um that people like to work with. But the second thing once you found a really good, you know, squad of managers is give them freedom, allow them to, you know, execute their ideas, allow them to get on with their job. Um and I think ultimately that that that gives me freedom because it gives me time if I was to manage the managers as such you know I'm going to be you know reducing how much time I have to think of new ideas and to implement new new projects. So that's what I really try and do is get good managers good team of people um to help run the business. I don't really get too much involved in the day-to-day operations. >> Okay. >> I like to more try and you know think of the ideas implement that. I will get involved in some of the operations but generally uh trying to avoid it. >> So you largely sort of empower them and trust them to make you know decisions. I mean that requires a sort of a healthy culture for them to do that. How would you describe the culture you know with within Joli trading? >> What's what's the working atmosphere like? >> I mean everyone's smiling, everyone's happy. Um, the amount of times delivery drivers and they're probably the most depressive people to be fair, but the amount of times they say, "Oh, I've never seen so many happy people." You know, it's not once or twice. I hear this all the time every week. So, people are quite happy. It's quite funny. You'll walk between all the different buildings we have. And there's there's music absolutely pumping in the in the in the building. So, you can walk from one building to another and and the genre will change. It'll go from heavy metal to some kind of electronic stuff and, you know, sort of radio one maybe as well. So there's really a diverse range of music on the go. I think people are quite upbeat. They're quite happy. Um and that adds to the efficiency of the business. >> Okay. And I believe most of your staff are relatively young and local. You you you recruit a lot of local people in sort of Pemshire and and how have you fared in terms of sort of recruitment and retention of staff? Are there particular things that you do to maintain that sort of happy fulfilled workforce? >> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we do just introduced a a monthly bonus um based on performance, attendance, punctuality. We do a little bit of overtime pay as well. Um we do every Friday or every other Friday we have a barbecue or I'll buy everyone lunch. But you know, it's these small things I think that people appreciate. And it's very expensive employing somebody. So sometimes these little things like a barbecue on a Friday, it might cost you5 pound per head which is what you know half an hour of work. So these are things I think got really appreciated and actually go you know quite far in their respect and and how they treat the business. >> Okay. Okay. So what specific challenges are you facing now? What are the sort of the hot issues which you're trying to contend with? >> I mean there's always issues. Um one of the things we're looking at now is is sort of trying to how to expand where to expand. So we we we sort of researched a lot of potentially expanding into into you know opening a much larger facility in the UK. Um that was a big challenge for us. You're fighting with increased costs increased hage obviously fuel prices are rocketing as well which adding to the hage cost and shipping. Um it's been very difficult to to keep those costs down. People want more money as well. They're pressure for that. So you know that was that's a big challenge for us. um trying to become more efficient during a time where costs are increasing is difficult. But we've recently made the decision to actually expand our operations into Poland >> um instead of the UK. So this will be one hour from the German border and actually it'll cost a significant amount less than opening a new facility in the UK, but the reward will be much greater. you know, we'll be one hour from Germany, the the biggest economy in Europe, but we'll also have access to the whole of the EU, um, which has been an absolute nightmare for us, you know, during, um, or before during Brexit and whatnot. So, it's been really difficult to export. So, we're hoping this will be a really good solution to to, you know, Brexit and exporting having a facility that we can actually operate ourselves. >> Okay. And why why Poland? Why not why not another EU country? Were there any specific advantages or attractions to Poland? >> Logistically, it's the best located within Europe and economically. It's uh the price is fantastic. So, you can recruit staff. Um it's plentiful. Um and and location and price for for the whole facility is good. So, it's it's probably the best location. I I went I flew over there a few weeks ago and I've never seen so many warehouses. You can imagine the biggest warehouse you've ever seen and just rows and rows and rows of them. got Amazon, the likes, DV Shank, big hollage companies, and they're just queuing up on along the along the motorways there, these massive warehouses. Um, never seen anything like it. >> Okay. Okay. >> It's not like that for, you know, it's like that for a reason. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Of of of course. I mean, it sounds like they're really open for business and want that trade. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Yeah. And and and and are you, as far as you gather, you determining that other UK businesses are following similar approaches? >> I don't know. I haven't I'm not aware of other businesses doing it. I presume they must be. Um the difficulty in exporting to the EU is is is is tremendous. It you know firstly there's there's a delay. It costs you more. But if you can get past the delay in cost which it could be possible you know using your own own logistics, good software and whatnot. What you can't surpass, what's impossible to surpass is the the fact that you know European people, consumers, they don't want to buy from the UK because they're worried about delays and cost. Yeah. >> Even if you fix it, you won't fix their concerns. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, I want to change tack a little bit now and ask uh a few more questions about as about you, the the the individual really. So, you're a young guy, very successful, um very self-motivated, got loads of ideas. Have you encountered any barriers in growing your business because of your youth? >> Um good question. I think I would have done, but I think I intentionally hid myself, you know, behind a computer. Um, you know, when you when you're when you're working from a laptop, you don't tell anyone your age. So, that was a massive um factor in in in you know, in dodging that that thing. I think if you were running a running a store or running a that kind of thing, you actually face to face meeting people, they're not going to respect you. They're going to judge you and they're going to, you know, it's not going to it's not going to affect your business positively pro probably. But uh certainly being on a computer to hide your face and you're not gonna have to tell anyone your age. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It wasn't don't I don't feel like it was an issue for me. >> And when when you've ever had to have face to face discussions, you know, with finance raises and other bits and pieces, you know, um any issues there or have you found that, you know, the the the promise of what you've done and can do is sufficient to turn their mind that this guy's got capabilities. We need to back him. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I I was probably 21 by the time I discovered you could, you know, really loan money from the bank to grow business. It was a bit risky before that. I thought, you know, you don't need to loan money, but then, you know, hit 21, I realized actually this is really good. Um, but by then I had, you know, a good bit of business back and behind me. I' been been in business for about six years. By 21, you know, and I had a good sort of three or four years of solid accounts, you know, submitted with with companies company's house and whatnot. So, there was track record. Um and there was there was good growth there. >> Okay. And I mean a number of people listening on the call, you know, may have been to university. They may have appropriate business degrees which suits the sector they're in or they um you know, learn from other people within sort of bigger businesses. I mean you haven't had that sort of track. Um has it been your philosophy that you will do your research, make a decision, stick to it, and if you fail, fail quickly? I mean, is that what drives you? Do you think that's probably given you an advantage because you've just gone and done it rather than stick to some sort of convention? >> I think so. I think often often maybe I'm a little bit hasty. Um my finance director hates it that you know I'll have an idea we'll we discuss it very briefly and then I'll just you know move forward with it quickly. Um you know is that the right choice? If it's if it's the right choice it's the right choice. is difficult but um but the advantage is you can move much faster. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> In theory within the company we have the ability to execute and launch a product really quickly and get that to market. Whereas if we were contemplating on how to proceed, contemplating on how to do it, it wouldn't quite be there. So the way we kind of the way the business works is we you know we we we execute an idea or execute the the the platform or the products and we'll tweak it. We'll constantly improve it. We'll always always strive to improve that product. Um, we'll always analyze that how we've done it. We might have two ideas and we'll try one. Whichever performs best, we'll go down that route and we'll do the same. We'll keep doing this until well, it never ends actually. But you just keep optimize your your plan and move forward with with the best strategy. >> So that's so that's part of your DNA in the business, you know, and and uh do you do that sort of formally or just fairly informally? You'll have a quick chat. Let's try it this way. see where it goes. Is that the way that you evolve? >> Yeah, very informally. Um, we'll just try something. If it doesn't work, we either revert back to it or try something else. >> Okay. Okay. So, what motivates you and gets you out of bed in the morning? What drives you? >> I like the challenge, you know. I like the I like the challenge of business and it's quite a good feeling. You know, you look at you look around and you you're really busy. There's lorries turning up and the conveyor belts full and things are working seamlessly. There's a good connection there. I like seeing that. There's a challenge of trying to create this business that that works nice. There's a good cycle to it. And that's quite exciting. I like the risk. That's pretty exciting for me as well. And there's got to be a lot of risk involved in it. >> A lot of risk. >> A lot. Yeah. Well, the more risk the more the more the more fun. >> Yeah. I think if you know >> if if you manage to pull something off and you you know, start a business and actually works. You know, I'm sure there's plenty of mist mistakes on the way, but if you get it to work, that's quite a good feeling, you know, actually starting something and and getting it to work and getting it to succeed. >> I mean, that's a really refreshing approach because a lot of people that we would deal with more, you know, established businesses, I would say, are probably more riskaverse, you know, but for you, you say, well, a lot of risk because for you it's probably challenge, greater opportunity, uh, a better win when you get there. I mean that's sort of I mean that's you tr trusting your judgment ultimately isn't it? >> Yeah definitely. I mean as I said earlier I make a lot I make a lot of mistakes but the key is to make more more right ones. >> Okay. So you you you you talked about your work day so you know work really hard. So how do you chill out and you know and take time and get away from the business um so that you know your people can manage it when you're not there. What do you do to sort of refresh? But I play football. Um, you know, a bit of training, game on a Saturday, actually. DJ, um, I DJ as well. So, um, play a few gigs in London. Um, you know, just just for fun really. Um, try and get, you know, get out of work. It's not all about work. You got to try and move your brain away from business all the time. You're going to get tired. So, go travel and go on holiday. >> Yeah. >> You know, you can't be spending your time always thinking about it. I do find myself a bit trapped sometimes. You get home from work, you can't get those thoughts out your head. Sometimes it helps you, you know, you you can really nail an idea because you've been thinking about it for so long, but you've got to have a break. I mean, you've got to take rest from that. >> Okay. Okay. And do you have any sort of key rules or mantras which dictate what you do? >> Um, yeah. I mean, my mom used to say to me, there's always another train leaving the station. You can't be disheartened when you miss an opportunity. Happens a lot of the time. You know, you hear things um people haven't done something they they thought of an idea, they didn't do it in time or they've missed the opportunity. You know, you've got to remind yourself there's always an opportunity, always another opportunity. So, you got to remember remember that and and actually try and act fast the next time. >> Yeah. >> So, I remind myself that and I often ask myself as well, you know, when you're trying to do something, you say to yourself, what's the worst that can happen? >> Yeah. >> You try and you try and think about the worst. Not not trying to, you know, put yourself off the idea, but you think, well, this is the worst case. Oh, it's not actually that bad. >> Yeah. >> You know, if you actually think about it, sometimes it's not actually that bad. You think, well, I can survive if that goes wrong or I can fix it if that goes wrong. So, we'll just try it anyway because worst case, it's not even that bad. We can we can continue. >> Um, so I often do that. >> Okay. Okay. And so, you've been in business for 12 years. You're still a very young man. The best lies ahead, I would hope. I mean, but with the benefit of hindsight, you know, what would you have done differently if you had your last 12 years again? Are there any things that you would have changed? >> Yeah, I mean that's a hard question because I mean people probably have different views. Yeah, I could change loads of things. Um I remember a few years ago I was approached by um a liquidator. They said, "Would you be interested in buying a whole warehouse full of French dress and party goods?" um it's being auctioned, going to be auctioned in the next couple of days. Um you know, would you want to buy it? So the next day I drove to Manchester. I was there by 8:00 in the morning. Um went around the warehouse and I I ended up buying the whole thing. So I thought this would be a fantastic business. It' be a fantastic idea. Um I think they had I think they had about 150,000 products in this warehouse. >> Um I thought, you know, thought incredible idea. It's going to go really well. I can expand body socks. In actual reality, it was a nightmare. took me two weeks to clear the warehouse. Um it was a hell of a mess. It was it was a massive learning curve. Um we ended up losing money on this project. So you said, you know, this kind of thing was was it a mistake? But I think actually >> I learned so much from the management of it and how to how to manage there was 15,000 barcodes in this warehouse. So how to manage this in detail efficiently. >> Yeah. >> It gave me the skills for that. I think probably later on when I launched Bargain Fox the skills I learned you know from this project were passed forward. So probably the skills were invaluable there. >> So I suppose trial and error it's only sort of failure if you don't learn from it. >> I think so definitely that's what I'd say. >> Yeah. Okay. So you know as a successful young entrepreneur you know what would your top tips be to those listening in about you know how they could make their business more successful? You can't be content with uh with what you're doing, the product you're offering or the service you're selling. Little bit sad to say, isn't it? But you got to consistently be uncontent with with what you're doing and and strive to improve that. Um you know, I think the moment you you're content, the moment you're satisfied with what you've achieved, the moment you stop is the moment you fall behind. >> Okay. Okay. Well, just before we go back to Julie, I ask you one last question. So what sort of new projects do you have on the go and what does the future hold? >> So we want to launch a new product. Um we launched in the UK. We do uh 3PL. We do fulfillment for customers storage, pallet storage and fulfillment using our existing infrastructure and software. Um we have very um um very efficient warehouse management software called Pickback Direct. That's very good. Um, we want to launch this product in Poland. I think a lot of Brit British businesses have been struggling with Brexit, you know, as as have we. So, we've decided to go to Poland to to to set the products up out there instead. Um, and we want to offer fulfillment and storage and and FBA and Amazon. >> Okay. >> To other Welsh or British businesses out there. >> Okay. So other businesses that you know aren't able to do that themsel um you would sort of contract out your services to them. So they would use your facilities um tech knowhow etc to do that. >> Exactly that. Yeah. >> Fantastic. Fantastic. And any other plans beyond that? I mean obviously Poland's going to be a really exciting growth curve for you. any other sort of key things that you're focusing on or be opportunistic and see what the future holds. >> I can't can't say too many secrets, but uh no, >> don't sell family silver. >> One thing we're one thing we're working on actually is um because bargainfox.com is is is run and managed by us clearly. Um and we sell all the products on on Bargain Fox. But what I want to do is enable people to sell on there themselves. So effectively making the marketplace. I think if if you can make it a successful marketplace and allow third party sellers to sell on your platform, then your growth is just exponential over the next few few months. >> Brilliant. Well, thank you very much Jack. Thanks for bearing um with me. We'll go back to Julia now who's been manning the chat lines and she'll probably ask you a few more questions. So meanwhile, thanks Jack. >> Thank you Jeremy. >> That's great. Thanks so much um for a fantastic session. Um, as we head head into Q&A, just to remind anyone if uh if you want to um send me a question to put to Jack, please feel free to do so. But I'm going to jump in if I may and ask the first question. Um, so you were a young man when you started the business. What was that conversation like with mom and dad that I'm not going to stay in education. I'm going to go and do this really risky thing and start my own business. I don't want to go to university. I don't want to do all of the the traditional things that parents hope their children will do. Um, was that a challenge? >> I mean, firstly, I'm still young, Julia. But >> you are. Absolutely. We were very young at the time. So, uh, >> it was it was a difficult thing, you know. I mean, it wasn't like I just left school. I'd already started the business. I wasn't making much money, but I was making some money, you know, and I wanted to over the summer holidays, I was trying to make a certain amount of money. I think it was like5,000 pounds I wanted to make in the summer holding and that was prove myself to my mom and dad basically that you know I could do it you know continuously throughout throughout the year but I think I did actually I think I actually achieved it I think I did it this milestone at the time selling on eBay um I was a lot of cycling skin suits they were very popular back then actually um they were genuine British cycling skin suits with the likes of Chris Hoy signing the back of them so they were really good um very popular But my mom at the time was a lot stronger than me, a lot more mentally strong. Said, "Jack, you're not leaving school." Um, so unfortunately I had to endure it for another year. But my head wasn't in school. I wasn't interested in it. Once I'd realized that, I didn't really need it as such. I didn't understand the importance of that. And you know, even though it's very very important, I I my head was in business now. So I my my concentration was there. Um, and a year later, I'd finally I think I proved it to my mom and dad that uh I didn't need to be in school. Um, and in fact, I'd neglected school anyway, so there was no point going back there. >> That's interesting. So, um, so they still won. You did still stay in school for a little bit longer than you'd have liked, but you proved yourself and that's effectively what what started your journey then. >> Exactly that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Absolutely. Great. Um, okay. So another question that's come up is obviously you've taught yourself lots of the things that that has enabled you to be successful coding and obviously your copyright um you know bits that you've you've learned yourself effectively. So is that self-learning a theme for you? Is that something that is sort of ingrained in you and if you don't know how to do it actually you'll go and find out and do it yourself and make that conscious decision rather than outsource to specialists. I mean, you've got to have the confidence to to try it, but I guess people are wired slightly differently. You know, sometimes I'm a little bit stupid. I I'll buy something and I'll much rather try and set it up, you know, without reading the instructions, which seems sometimes it seems silly to me, but I just I'd much rather the challenge of doing it without reading the instructions. Um, I think you're either wired like that or or or you're not. Um, also I think, you know, the fact that I'm not afraid to make a mistake. I mean, the worst case is I, you know, I I learned to make, you know, um, register intellectual property. The first time I might get it wrong. That's the worst case scenario. Best case scenario, I get it right. The second time I do it, I've learned. So, the risk is not really that great. The risk is£100. But, I've now learned how to register copyright myself. Um, and I'm going to save at least 2,000 pound per design, you know, to to saving tens of thousands of pounds a year. Yeah, that leads really nicely into the next one actually. So, um that willingness to fail and your tendency on making quick decisions that you spoke about. Do you think that that was one of the key things that helped you during the pandemic? >> Yeah, I think I needed quite fast. I didn't have much time to to spare really. Um but I remember sort of the the the sadness in everyone's faces when you know when co happened and everyone everyone everyone in body socks went home and I always remember the there was this spark you know I I saw everyone's faces when I said right we're going to start this new business and we just signed this massive lease on this property in Pemmer Dark and everyone had this massive burst of you know I think of of of hope. So it's great seeing that I think and yeah that was quite good for us. >> So so that strong team you've built really pulled together during that time for you then and everyone jumped on board and >> exactly that you know we didn't have the luxury of time. Um you could have had to act fast and and in a way it was quite painful because we had to launch a an unfinished or sort of un and sort of final unpolished business but to put it together mash it together as quickly as possible market it and and plan it. Yes. and and try and do as best we could. But we didn't have six months. We're talking, you know, a matter of >> matter of weeks. >> Would would Bargain Fox have happened if it hadn't been for the pandemic, Jack? >> I expect not. I expect not. We didn't need to. Um there was no push for it. There was no desire to take this great risk. And unfortunately, even though I said I like risk, I think it's within reason and it was quite a risky business to start. I think quite a big business, big investment. um you know this this is a large um a large area we're sort of moving into. I don't think you can necessarily start it with you know with a small amount of funds. You need to sort of pump that money into advertising and and sort of take a leap of faith really. And I don't necessarily like doing that all the time, but I think at the time I had no choice. It was either you know go bankrupt because there was no money coming in or try something else. So basically you apply the same principle. What's the worst that can happen? Well, I'm currently going bankrupt. um we we may as well go option two and try something else, >> right? Great. >> And obviously it's paid off for you and and you're still expanding and you know the businesses are doing great. So um so yeah, it's all credit to you there and as you say I think those quick decisions and being willing to act on your feet must have been key to to that success. Um okay so slightly different question now more around sort of the management um side of things. Lots of business owners struggle um to switch off, go on holiday, let things go, let that control go. Um you said very clearly early on in in the talk that actually, you know, employ the right people and give them freedom. Do you think because you do that and you do that so successfully that you are able to switch off and you are able to to go away or do you still have that niggle of I don't quite know what's going on. And I need to scratch the surface a little bit and understand. >> I think it does allow you to shut off a little bit because you're not thinking about everything. There's too many too many issues to to concern yourself with. So if you give that freedom to other people, that's their concern, isn't it? If you don't know about the problem, you don't think about it, I think. So that really helps. Definitely. >> Excellent. And staffing have been so such a a a big issue for so many businesses um over the last couple of years. Did you um lose many staff during the the the furled period? Because we hear that an awful lot. We hear a lot that staff were furoughed and then they had to come back to work and and actually they didn't want to or they'd found something different and there was that backfill. Did you have a lot of issues around staffing as you came back? >> Well, yeah. I mean, as as as a costume business, we were our sales went almost from 100% to zero almost overnight. So, we had no work. But probably within a week or two of of co came with this new idea, bargainfox.com. And then everyone was back in work trying to execute this idea as fast as possible. So it was a very short amount of time. It was probably a two week period of of great sadness thinking, you know, what's going to happen to body socks? What's going to happen to our jobs? Um so luckily only two weeks before we had a new idea and everyone's brought back into work to quickly get on with it. >> So they weren't on for um on furow for a long period of time then. So, so that's probably how you retained them and and obviously your ethos in the business. >> Exactly. That I think another thing as well I'd say is I'm quite lucky with timing. There's a lot of luck that you know think comes into these things but the timing was you know we started Bargain Fox. It was a time where you know um employers were either furthering staff or making them redundant. Um I know a lot of the lifeguards in Pemshire, you know, growing up in the coast um they were looking for jobs because the the RNI were you know weren't employing lifeguards. they were the beaches were closed. So luckily we managed to take a big workforce in Tempe was closed for business. So a lot of local people were looking for work. We managed to recruit a lot of those people. Um and those people are still with us today. A lot of them. >> Amazing. Great success story. Um so we've had another question just pop in um about what's the biggest lesson you've learned about you through your business journey? So not about business or about um anything else but about yourself as an individual. It's probably something more I've learned more recently actually is that I'm not good at everything. Um, you know, some there's some weaknesses. You know, most people would probably be prepared to tell you exactly what the weaknesses are, but you've got to work out what they are and you've got to try and focus on your strengths, I think. So, if you can find a person or people to help you with your weaknesses, um, to focus on certain areas, you know, there there things I'm I'm I'm good at, things I'm not. So, I try and focus on things I'm good at, and that's how we drive the business forward. and I fill those gaps with people that can help me to try and identify where where your weaknesses are. >> Just going back to that employ the right people and and and give them the authority to to do their jobs really, isn't there? >> So fill fill the gaps in in your skill base. >> AB um well that's um the end of of the questions that I've had submitted. Is there anything more from you Jeremy? Has that triggered anything for yourself? No, I mean I just think it's been a really enlightening session, you know, to um and I think what's happened over the last couple of years is that a lot of sort of sacred cows in business terms have have been uh got rid of people are thinking uh acting differently and you know people often talk about recessions and doom and gloom. Um uh but there are as many uh millionaires who are made during such time as those that don't do so well. And I think you know what Jack says is really a lesson to everyone listening in. You know it's about opportunity you know looking at it researching it implementing it and seeing how it goes. And you know, I doubt very much whether the three businesses that Jack has at the moment um will be the only things that he does going forward. I think it's probably the the nature of your personality, Jack, and you to be applauded on everything that you've done to date and uh you know, it'll be good to keep in touch with you going forward because I'm sure you've got some other great ideas which is probably prudent not to share online now. >> Well, thank you very much for having me and uh I've enjoyed the questions and very thoughtprovoking. you've really drilled into my head. >> Excellent. No, thank you Jack um and Jeremy because I say it was a great session. Um I'm just going to uh do a very quick screen share um of a QR code just to gain a little bit of feedback really so that we can understand um what you've loved about this session um and what we could do better going forward. So um very shortly the um the QR code will come up. It's a very very quick survey. I promise you're not going to have um loads and loads of questions. If you wanted to scan the QR code or click on the link, whichever is easier for you. Um pick myself from the drop-own list, that's Julia Perry as your host today. Um the topic of the event and just really it's an NPS scoring system of 1 to 10. So if you've enjoyed today's session, if there are some takeaways that that you've had um and you really feel that it was worthwhile for you, we'd love you to score us a nine or a 10. um if you've enjoyed it but but maybe not um you know taken much from it then we'd ask for a seven or an eight if it really hasn't been for you. Um and if that is the case please do score it uh honestly. Um but use the feedback box, use the little free format box just to give us a little bit of an insight as to why you feel like that. Um that would really be helpful for us as we shape these sessions going forward. Um so I will just take this slide down and take us back to the main session. Fantastic. So, um that's all that's really left for for me to do now um is to to thank Jack um for his honesty um and for for sharing his story with us and to thank Jeremy obviously for being um our uh question master and uh and leading the the session so amazingly for us today. The series will continue through 2022 with monthly hourlong events showcasing some more amazing Welsh business heroes. Um, you can find out about our next session by getting in touch um with myself or Jeremy by signing up to our monthly newsletter, following me or Lansa via LinkedIn, Twitter, or following the Eventbrite page you use to sign up today. So, thank you once again um to Jack for giving us this valuable time and sharing his story, experience and knowledge with us. I'm sure that it has resonated with many existing and future entrepreneurs and that he'll um be inspiring the next generation of uh of young people who don't want to go to university and have some great ideas. So, um thank you both and we'll look forward to seeing um you all next month's Welsh Business Hero session in June. Thanks everybody. >> Thank you. >> Bye everyone. Bye bye guys. Thank you.