Alex Mears, thank you for joining me today on Acquiring Minds. Thanks so much, Will. Glad to be here. Alex, you've recently left your position at Carlyle to launch, along with your two partners, a search accelerator. Earlier in your career, you were at Blackstone. So, here you are with years of experience at a couple of the world's most illustrious PE firms and largest PE firms, and you've chosen to pivot your career path into search. And needless to say, you bring a lot of big private equity's best practices down to the scrappy, messy world of search, and we are going to go get into those today, as well as hear about Bryden Group, the new firm that you are launching with. Your two partners are uh I the gentleman George Dutill, which is a name I don't want I don't know, so I want to hear a little bit about George, and of course Steve Ressler, which will be a very familiar name um to anybody who knows anything about search. Uh before we get into all of this though, Alex, let's hear uh your bio in your own words. Yeah, absolutely. So, so uh up until uh a month and a half ago, what was fairly traditional large cap private equity. I would say with one asterisk. Um so, you know, started 20 years ago, was it was it Goldman in banking, um worked at uh Blackstone, as you mentioned, in their in their buyout funds, all all pre-crisis. Uh and then basically had an opportunity to go to business school and go back to Blackstone, but decided to uh take a a little bit of a break and instead I joined the military and foreign service. So, I was a an intelligence officer with the Navy SEALs. Um spent 5 and 1/2 years in Iraq, Afghanistan, Indonesia, uh and then then my wife uh gently reminded me it was time to time to come home. So, uh came back and then yeah, up until I was up until uh just recently was at Carlyle um in their US buyout fund. So, it was focused on um software, government services, and have done, you know, business services in my background. And you and Steve Ressler as I understand it, kind of started it investing in search and getting it at least Steve and he he kind of always talks about it as a partnership with you, a few years ago started getting involved in search. Um and of course Steve has done a great job of uh he's really prolific in the space. He's got his great newsletter, he's on Twitter, he he's involved in a lot of deals. Um so, tell me about how you guys met and how you both kind of jointly or or independently started getting involved in search those two, three, four years ago. Yeah, absolutely. So, so we met originally uh you know, I mean Steve's Steve's background his his pre-search uh career was, you know, very successful kind of multi-time govtech CEO, you know, running government software businesses. Uh and so, that was a space I knew very, very well, uh and candidly, the the list of outstanding operators is is uh is fairly short, and his his was always at the top. So, that's actually how how we originally met. Um and then we were both just fascinated by search. So, my my sort of entree to it, I mean I I, you know, peers of mine launched searches, you know, 16 years ago. Um so, I've I've been familiar with it for for quite some time, but it was really, you know, 5, 6 years ago, um I started getting a lot of outreach actually from veterans who were going to to business school and then were interested in either private equity or search. Uh and so, that was sort of how how I got initially introduced into it, and then and then candidly just, you know, as as as I was able to, you know, invest more off the personal balance sheet and things like that, got more and more heavily involved um in, you know, in in in supporting searchers. Uh and and Steve sort of followed, I think, a very similar path. And so, he and I, you know, it's the it's the classic kind of very uh similar values, but different skill sets, which is something I talk about a lot with our searchers as they're thinking about doing a partnered search versus a a solo search. You know, Steve and I had very similar service backgrounds, very similar the way we view the world is very similar. Um if we tell someone we're going to do something, we absolutely want to make sure that that that gets done. But at the same time, you know, I've had the kind of classic private equity deal transaction background, right? 20 years of doing, you know, 80-hour weeks, uh looked at way too many businesses over that time period, you know, doing full due diligence, doing valuation work, etc. Um and then obviously I'm involved at the operating stage, but usually in a board capacity, you know, sitting on the board. Whereas Steve, I always I always like to joke, it's it's much harder to put it in Excel than it is in reality. You know, Steve had the had the has the actual amazing operating experience. And not only one business, but he's done this, you know, three times very, very successfully, and has, you know, sold to private equity and has been through, you know, the Vista operating playbook, which you can talk about later. Um so, so that was what sort of I think really attracted us in terms of our partnering is we just felt like we could provide a lot more value to the searchers that we were working with because I could basically help them on all that upfront acquisition and and the due diligence and everything like that, uh sort of the the private equity hat, and then Steve really has like the deeper operating chops on like, no kidding, how do you how do you take a million a business from 2 million of ARR up to 10 million of ARR? Um you know, I mean I I can I can say all day long I've done it at a board level, but it's just very different when you're in the trenches as a CEO, and so that's where he provides it. Um so, that was that was the two. And then I can speak quickly on you mentioned uh George Dutill uh initially. So, uh George and I actually uh served uh in uh Afghanistan in combat together. So, he he was uh we're you know, working with the same the same SEAL team, which you you've probably read about in the press uh as I was over there. And um he then went to Wharton, this is years ago when he transitioned out, uh and then was at Goldman and at JP Morgan. Um and so, we've known each other for for very, very long time. He's um really what he does incredibly well, he he's on the private bank side at at JP Morgan. Um so, he literally has been through the single best training on how do you reach out to a how do you find a small business owner? How do you reach out to them? And as he jokes, it's how do you either ask them for all their money or ask them for their business? It's a very similar it's a very similar, very personal, very important question. Um and so, as candidly as we thought about building a team uh to support our searchers better, you know, I think there's a lot of sort of generalist support, which is great in in in the sector, but what we felt like is, you know, where we could try to add disproportionate value is like, no kidding, let's get the best person in the world who's got the best training in sourcing. Let's get, you know, great training and background in on the deal side. And then on the acquisition side, like, let's get, you know, no kidding, the the operator who's done this many, many times, has been through the, you know, the best private equity playbooks. And so, that was sort of what how we thought about building the team. And just going back again a couple years, you and Steve, you were doing investing uh before you formalized this into Bryden Group. Talk to me about kind of the the quantity, the types of deals, what what were what is your investing track record in search look like to to to this date? Yeah, so so Steve and I together, I mean, we've we've backed now over 70 searchers. Um 40 of those are closed transactions and and roughly 30 are are actively, you know, actively searching today. Um and I would say our our experience has been very consistent, you know, when you look at, for example, industries, you know, we we skew probably a little bit more heavily to software um and some of the higher end kind of technical services just given my background and given Steve's background. But pretty much it's like it's it's it's our our our, you know, what we've invested in and backed searchers is kind of a microcosm of of what you would see if you picked up the Stanford study, right? So, it's I don't know, 40, 45% software, another 30, 35% business services, tech services, and then some government services and health care services kind of round it out. Great. Well, I want to hear more about Bryden Group in a little bit, but let's get into some of these some of this expertise that you're bringing to the search space from big private equity. So, one of the things that PE folks um learn early on and it and it kind of becomes, you know, a mantra and a bit core of the philosophy of private equity is identifying high-quality businesses. Uh and of course, that probably becomes even more important for searchers because frankly, the smaller the business, like the the higher likelihood it's it the quality is questionable, and you know, you hear the old axiom like, the reason these are small they're small for a reason. Small businesses are small for a reason. Maybe they've just never achieved the level of quality or scale to actually um get to the next level of quality. So, talk to me about what um what searchers can learn from big private equity with respect to identifying businesses that are of high quality, even if small. So, a few things. I mean, for first off, you know, just as you said, especially in small business land, there there are a lot of wonderful small businesses, but they aren't necessarily, you know, high-quality. And those those businesses, one, tend to be higher risk because they can disintegrate, especially once the owner uh or seller leaves. Uh and two, they're just much they can be much harder to scale um because they candidly they don't really have a a overwhelmingly compelling reason to win uh in a competitive market. So, a few of the things that that we've tried to bring or that I try to bring from from kind of large cap private equity in working with our searchers is first is really understanding at what level the competition is of the business you're looking at. And if you think about it, there are a lot of businesses that effectively compete at the local level. So, think think your classic like home services businesses, janitorial services, HVAC. Almost all that competition is just at the local level, right? You were you were not competing with any really many, if any, national players, much less international. So, so that is understanding kind of that locus of competition. If if you scale up a bit, you know, most software businesses, probably majority of technical services businesses, that typically you're competing at the national scale. Sometimes regional, if it's a government service, you know, if it's if selling to government or something like that, but typically that's at a national scale. And so, understanding what that is. Uh and then a business like a manufacturing business, and it's one of the reasons why I think uh you know, certainly we as investors have been we try to caution our searchers as they're looking at manufacturing businesses is all of a sudden, if you are competing at an international level, the the the the amount of work you have to do to really understand and do diligence that business is just drastically different, right? Because you you need to understand why is that business manufacturing widgets in you know, somewhere in America? Why can't that be done in a low-cost country, for example? So so I think the first part of understanding the differentiation is really understanding, you know, at what level the competition is. Because that also informs, you know, as you're thinking about the quality of a business, there are a lot of small businesses that that are, you know, perfectly wonderful and have been done done wonderful things for their owners and and, you know, provide a nice livelihood that are just very very difficult to scale because they're only competing with other local providers. Often times those first those first customers, for example, were were kind of friends and family of an owner or they the owner has just been around long enough that he's kind of accumulated some of those. Um and so so making sure that you're kind of putting down, you know, the the magnifying glass with which you are looking at that business is at the appropriate level uh is incredibly important. Now, that's not to say that you should only buy something that competes nationally or regionally. In fact, that can be terrifying. Uh So, for example, we see this have seen this several times where they have a nice little niche in in software and then all of a sudden uh a very well-funded venture-backed software business sort of plops into the space, um which is just not what you want to do. You know, you you don't want to compete with people with very very low cost of capital or or or no cost of capital. And so so just understanding that I think is one of the first things we recommend our searchers do as they think about kind of the quality of the business. The next thing really is just no kidding, like what is the value proposition of the business? And this this sounds silly, um but we we always laugh. I mean, there there times in like in like private equity where we're a week into diligence on some weird technical service business or something like that and you're still really trying to like like why does this business exist? What is And And when I say that I mean it literally, what are the workflows what And And And that that business actually performs for their customers and what is the value that they provide at each stage? And one, why can't the customer do it themselves? And two, why can't someone else do it? Right? Why why why why can't they? And so so that gets to kind of the the third bucket, which is really understanding and I've never seen this described well in the literature in Porter's, you know, five forces and all this stuff, which is just customer stickiness. Like the single most important thing in a business in terms of business quality is customer stickiness. And if you think about that that it's kind of there there several different ways you can kind of divide up customer stickiness, but it is how likely, you know, in short how likely is a customer to churn away from you. Um and so one of those is, you know, are there are there substitutes? Are there competitors who can offer something similar? But also, how deeply are you ingrained in into your customers business and workflows? Like the the short like think of like SAP. You know, the joke always is like, you know, "Oh, it'll be a quick easy SAP implementation." Right? Like everyone knows that that switching ERP systems is one of these it's, you know, it's literally open heart surgery on a business. And so you want to find businesses that that have so deeply integrated into the workflows of of your customer set that it is incredibly painful I should say painful incredibly difficult to to to extract, right? Um the the second piece of that though is it's not only that kind of what I'll call like criticality, but it's also the materiality, right? And so if you can find a business that is is is a tiny tiny cost to that customer, yet at yet is mission critical, those are by far the best businesses, right? Because the problem is if you're mission critical, but you're really big and you're very I mean, let's say you're 10% of the cost base or something or or you know, for the customer. Well, the first time they look to cut cut cut costs, they're going to come to you, right? So you can you can think of let's think of auto parts manufacturers, right? you can have an absolutely critical part of the engine um that you're selling to an auto OEM that's not necessarily a good business, even if it's absolutely mission critical, if if it's 20% of the cost of that engine because they're still going to come to you and try to beat you up on price. What you really want, you want to be and I'll use an example of a business that I I looked at once, which I I I still laugh about. They literally made tiny uh little rubber plugs, right? I mean, this is like the these And if they they they were like, you know, a dollar two dollars each. Um and basically what those little rubber plugs did though is that they were all perfectly formed and perfectly customized to be installed onto think like a a John Deere tractor engine going through an assembly line. So you're talking, I don't know, uh a $15,000 uh piece that it's attached to, right? This thing cost a dollar or two dollars, yet if it's not placed correctly or if the if the rubber cracks on the or the plastic cracks on this little on this little um plug, the whole engine's ruined, right? That is what you want to buy. You you want to buy that little plug, right? That is absolutely mission critical, but like that that there your customer could look for cost cutting for every day for 10 years and they are never going to get down to the line item of of arguing over whether your dollar plug should cost a dollar or two dollars, right? Yeah. Um and so if you think about it kind of on on that matrix, right? Like kind of you the the the mission criticality of your customer, but then also the the the you know, you call it cost materiality, right? How much how how significant is the cost to the customer? It's a great way to think about it. It's why candidly software has been such an outstanding business model for so long because again, even though software we think of it as expensive, but versus what the value it's providing and how difficult it is to rip out, it's actually a very very small portion of of most businesses overall spend uh if you actually look at their at their their full cost base. Yeah. You know, Alex, as I hear these stories or or these examples, um you know, I'm I'm I'm nodding along. Like that Yeah, that sounds like an amazing business, but most of the folks probably listening to this podcast are not going to be have access to those deals um just for a variety of reasons. So let's let's step it back up to like a home services business. Um and I and I and I actually have heard the language that you used from other private equity before. Like why do these busi- do these businesses have a right to exist? You know, it's it's it sounds a little coarser than than you mean it, but it's kind of like what if this business went away tomorrow, you know, kind of would it be missed sort of thing? And you know, um probably no home service business checks that box. And yet tons and tons of search In fact In fact, home services in particular is very hot right now. Um so square that circle for me. So why, you know, the that plumbing company or that or that tree services business, these are not businesses that have any of that moat that you're any of those moats that you're talking about. And yet searchers are successfully going out there and acquiring them all day all day long. Um yeah, talk to me talk me through that. Yeah, absolutely. And again, when it when, you know, when we're talking about business quality, it's not to say that you can't make money with a lot of these other businesses. It's more if if you are trying to buy one business that minimizes your downside and has a lot of of growth opportunity, just keep these in mind as as you're thinking cuz I think I think it even does apply at a local level. So I mean, we can take take something as simple as like cleaning services, right? I mean, there are candidly you actually don't see a ton purchased in search. I mean, you you you you occasionally do. And the reason is the barriers to entry for cleaning services are just exceptionally low, right? And so if you think about it, even if you have long-term contracts, even if it's not residential, but think like commercial cleaning where you're going in and cleaning uh an office or something like that, um and you have a annual contract and things like that. The the the challenge even on business like that is that And again, you can make money on it, but it's one, it's really hard to scale and two, there's always going to be kind of a a margin cap on you because it's it's always easy for someone else to come in and offer that exact same service. And guess what? All they're going to do, let's say if you're if you're basically charging your labor plus, I'm making it up, 40%, they'll just come in and charge their labor plus 30%. And so that always puts pressure on your ability to price and it also puts pressure on you know, churn and and some of those other things. Now, take a take a more specialized cleaning service though, right? I mean, let's I'll use a an extreme example. Um these are businesses that that, you know, uh that exist out there. There are cleaning services for um like industrial meat packing plants, right? So So I don't know if you know this, but like basically when the the pigs or the cows go through essentially the slaughterhouse, um they basically get shut down at night and outside third-party cleaners come in and have to clean everything. So in that case, I mean, it's it's a cleaning business, but there are huge kind of regulatory um uh concerns, right? So so you have to be fully approved and it's it's incredibly important. Uh and then back to our sort of discussion on the like criticality and materiality. Like if if if that cleaning company messes up cleaning up that equipment, then that whole production line could be shut for a day, which is just, you know, tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of dollars. So it's incredibly important, but honestly, even the cleaning itself is not that expensive. It's not, you know, by the time you look at what it what it costs to process a cow or or a, you know, cattle or or a pig. Um and so that would be an example of if you can buy a a cleaning services business that has more of that flavor, right? There's something from a regulatory perspective that that makes it special or that has that kind of they are a little bit more value add in terms of like the what the value prop to the customer and critical, that that's just what I would say, right? It's not to say like never buy a never buy cleaning service. I'm not saying that, but if you can find along that spectrum, if you can find those businesses that have a little bit more of something special like that, I think you're just going to end up in a much better place. Yeah. More defensible and also you're typically charging a premium for that as well. So it's kind of it's it's stronger on two fronts. It's um stronger moat because it's it's not as it's not as commoditized a service and you're probably your margins are higher and your your revenue per employee is higher. Is that fair? Um okay. Well, and now one question follow-up question on that though is you know one one thing that often searchers think about is is credibility with a seller. So often searchers are coming into an industry where they have no experience. And getting the searcher to trust that they'll be able to learn the industry, that they'll be able to earn credibility with the the employees that they're going to be inheriting is all part of the dance that you do with a seller. It would seem to me that that dance even more complicated if you're buying you're buying a business with ever more specialization. Is that is that true? Like if I if I'm trying to buy the you know the the livestock processing cleaning business and I I don't know anything about cleaning let alone you know the livestock business. Am I my pitch to the seller is is just the hurdle is that much higher? Yeah, I mean I agree and I I think there certainly is certainly for the more the more technical the business obviously just the the expectation would be that that the searcher would have more technical background. I mean what one thing to that though just more generally that we and when we work up with our searchers that I think is very helpful is is searchers should use their backgrounds to their advantage, right? So so one is like okay the types of businesses that they look at and we're huge advocates of kind of like industry focus search just for this reason. If if if a searcher has something in their background like they worked at I mean as using a real example, you know, they worked for one of the truck manufacturers. Well, all of a sudden at you know pre business school all of a sudden they have a lot more credibility in talking with anyone in kind of the auto truck ecosystem just because they've got a brand that they can reference, right? So that that would be one. The other thing is I mean and and you know certainly not all but you know about a quarter of the deals that we've we've worked on are with with veterans. Using you know not using but but take taking advantage of that background, right? Is if if a an owner was you know in the military or was in you know in the service being able to kind of like show commonality with with the owners is incredibly important and kind of like that counts for so much more than having the absolutely perfected email campaign down, right? Is like actually being able being able to leverage your own background to explain why you are a good home for for that person's that seller's life work up until that point. I imagine this is this is an area where search and PE really diverge because I don't I know so little about PE but when a PE firm is acquiring a company there isn't you're not necessarily able to or or trying to create that sort of emotional resonance with the seller. It's probably usually more financial. Correct me if I'm wrong but that is such a feature of search. Yeah, absolutely. I mean even even in in in private equity a buyer will try to differentiate themselves based on how well they're going to take care of the business, right? Even so even even in that but absolutely you know financial considerations often prevail. I'll put it that way, right? And yeah with with with most searchers especially for higher quality businesses generally those businesses are attractive to private equity, right? Even to micro cap private equity. And so the value prop that the searcher is providing is just what you're saying. It's like hey this is a different model. You know, I am you know, I may be taking institutional dollars to to fund it but I will be stepping into the role as the CEO and kind of managing your baby that you you you know that you have created and grown for all these years. And so you know when again when we're working with searchers that's something we we you know be proud of that. Like that is that is the value prop, right? Because generally if especially in a proprietary deal, you know, that that has to be you have to have that kind of personal resonance to have the the transaction work. Yeah. Speaking more about sellers Alex, seller integrity obviously is is paramount and one of the things that we hear over and over in search is um the opacity of everything and and and you know the classic like it's so you can't diligence all of the risk away. You can't diligence every little fact and in fact there's just a lot you're just going to have to kind of go based on the trust that you feel in the seller. So it really that that's where that's kind of the gap between what you really wish you knew and what you don't know and and bridging that gap basically falls squarely on how much do I trust the seller. Um so talk to me about seller integrity because I know it's something you thought a lot about. And this this this may seem surprising to you but I I often ask this with you know when if a searcher has found a deal and comes back and they're expecting me to be digging in on the you know year five in the model and why the numbers are and usually my first question is is candidly like what's your assessment of the seller's integrity and why, right? I mean that's that's how important this is. And it goes to just what you're saying which is the nature of a transaction is that there is such information asymmetry. You can spend millions and millions and millions of dollars on diligence. There will always be information asymmetry between what the existing owner and seller knows and what you know no matter how much work you do as you pointed out. And so that's why and you can and there are a lot of very important ways to corroborate what the seller is saying in due diligence and even the way you structure the the sale and purchase agreement you know in a lot of those provisions. But at the end of the day a lot of it you know, even in large cap a lot of it just comes down to like is this person trustworthy and and is what they're saying like can you can you put faith in in a lot of what they're putting forward. And so you know in terms of like actually practically what does that mean? It's pretty easy to say that at a high level. So one of the things that we always do and we we recommend our searchers do and we certainly do in deals that we're we're backing is go do a cheap background check quickly to make sure hey are there lawsuits? Are there is there is there you know I I always laugh that a a a business seller if you can understand how they've treated customers, how they've treated employees or former employees how they've treated former business partners or you know equity investors that's incredibly important because if they have not treated those people ethically I can promise you in it when they are selling a business you are in for a trouble, right? Like it just just full stop and I've seen this over and over and over and again and that is worth turns of EBITDA, right? I mean this is it is it is so massively impactful in terms of the outcome and candidly in terms of minimizing your downside, right? Because that's really a lot of what this is too is making sure is make sure you're not buying a lemon, right? And you're not stepping into something where in in two years you know, you have to give the give the business back to the debt holders. So so one is doing that background investigation. As you get further in diligence you know talking to customers, employees with that lens. I mean obviously you're focused on kind of the quality of the business and and everything like that but also just really trying to get a sense for like okay you know, when he or she says this generally like is that what happens? Is that is that consistent? Is what is what is said consistent with what is done which is kind of a very simplistic measure of integrity. I think the next thing and this is always tricky in the in the sale process is um is is what is told to you up front how much of that kind of falls apart in diligence and how much how much is confirmed. And this is always tricky and especially if there's an intermediary, right? Because the business is for sale and so you know, I've never in 20 years in private equity looked at a SIM where you know, revenue was not up into the right the hockey stick, right? Right. So you have to take that into account. Of course I'm not saying you know, we'll call it mild seller exuberance in terms of the projections but but on kind of the core features of the business is what was described is that what you actually find in in in the numbers in the conversations with customers. And if there's a significant discrepancy that should be a red flag. That's not a that's not a yellow flag. That's not a oh let's readjust. Like that to me is a red flag, right? Because especially with these small businesses that are so owner driven if you're you know let's say there are 100 rocks and you're able to look under three of them and there's like really ugly things under each of those three rocks. Well, guess what? All those other rocks that you weren't able to look under until you own the business like there's probably ugly stuff under those as well. And so I always say like like put disproportionate importance on uh things like that in diligence. Like even even discrepancies or and again not to say of course like I've never done diligence on a business where it turned out exactly what was described in the in the materials but on on on important issues really focus on that. And I know I'm not asking for a quantification but just in your experience of 20 years in private equity to what extent is seller integrity seen? Or I should say a lack of seller integrity. I mean how is this problem that you that that a seller is is doesn't meet the threshold of honesty that you need? Not not a majority of the time but candidly like you will often know if this is someone of high integrity and then it just it just impacts even like how I build how I build a model or how I support a searcher building a model, right? Is if is if you really have absolute high confidence in someone's like hey this is this literally what what he or she says is is real and it's true. I'm willing to pay more for that business full stop, right? So it's hard to put a number on it but it's there's a you know, I mean I am a huge advocate of search. I absolutely love it. I I think one of the things as as search has exploded is that sometimes there can be um uh you know, sometimes a lack of focus on like the downside, right? And and it happens a lot. I mean, we've seen examples of like you know, just blatant like regulatory violations that effectively threaten the entire business going forward. Uh and guess what? In those cases, this is the searcher was kind of like, "Yeah, this guy's kind of not on the up and up, but I'm getting it for super cheap, and this is what I'm doing." And as it turns out, like in those situations, like life's too short. You're generally, the searcher is only doing one deal. Like you only have to buy one business, right? And there as far as I like there are millions of small businesses in this country. There are only thousands of great ones. Like just go find a great one, right? It's not It's not And And when part of being great is having a seller who you you can trust in terms of what they say when when they sell the business. Interesting that it it it feels like um finding a business with really high integrity and high quality is worth an extra turn, whereas um buying a business uh at a discount for like a a less less of a turn on on revenue um where there might be some questions around seller integrity is actually not worth it. So, you you can't You're You're saying don't um even if you can get it as a at a discount. So, like there's no number that compensates for lack of integrity. It's just binary as far as I'm concerned. It's a little why like I always Sometimes people are like, "Oh, I want to do like a distressed deal, and I can buy it for two and a half times EBITDA." Like the math is such in search where you're paying anywhere from four to eight times EBITDA, the math is such that as long as you buy a good business and are you know, and are able to do well, like like it will handle it. Like that that is a great outcome, right? There's no reason to take on the the the massive upside risk of you know a seller who is clearly, you know, not a good person, and there's probably a lot of issues there at the business just just for the sake of a turn or two of EBITDA, right? It just doesn't make sense. And again, I mean, I think that's true in private equity. It's even more true in these businesses because one of the fundamental flaws in these businesses is that they are so owner-driven, right? I mean I I would argue a majority of small businesses in America can't or shouldn't be sold because they're effectively just you know, they're effectively jobs of the owner, right? It's And And those personal relationships and everything else don't transfer. And so, when you have a business that's that's so not institutionalized, which I think describes pretty much every search business there is, uh that that matters even more in terms of your assessment of the valuation and your willingness to step into the CEO role and ownership role of that business like that. Alex, some of the the um uh things that that might have been hidden by that that seller who lacks integrity, um let's get into those. Although, these could be surprises that even a seller with with really strong integrity, um you know, you're you're not fully equipped for, and then and then you find yourself dealing with once you've taken ownership. So, um key employees is is a classic one. Can you talk to me about what what you've learned in in from big private equity about the the key employees? absolutely. Uh and I have seen this over and over and over again uh across across many many deals. So, so the the employee question, and and oftentimes what you'll see if you put your seller hat on, they understandably don't want to introduce a prospective buyer to a bunch of their employees, right? Until they know it's an absolute done deal. Totally totally understandable, right? They don't want rumors getting started, they don't want to have to explain etc. Um that said in situations where a a searcher was not permitted to speak to any of the employees until a deal was effectively signed almost universally ends up there's some issue, right? And typically I we've seen everything from employees who were promised large raises, but of course it's not documented, and so you're stepping into a very different cost basis than you're expecting. Uh employees who basically say they're leaving. They're done. Uh and are critical. Um so, what I always recommend in diligence is it's really really important to actually um as you're doing business diligence and everything else is is actually map uh and this goes back to like really understanding like what's the workflow, what's the value prop of the business, is actually map like what what does each person in that business do? Like what's what's their value prop? Where are their relationships? Because oftentimes what you'll find I mean, I'll tell you a classic one is, "Hey, there's one there's one BD you know, business development or sales person and they have relationships with the top three customers, right? And literally, it's all a personal relationship, right? And so, you again, it's not to say you can't buy that business, but you better know going in to to that deal that that that that sales person is on board and is eager to continue because if they leave and they walk out the door, and they they take those those customers with them, I mean, that's just devastating to you out of the gate, right? Sure. So, the more you can get in front of that. So, part of that is is talking to the to the employees. It's um you know, really understanding like each of the roles and like really, you know, really trying to unpack like where do those customer relationships reside? You know, is it with the owner? Is it with the sales person? Is it with the the technical person the the operations person? Um is is is incredibly important. Um and then like we Is Alex, is there is there a sweet spot where you can um ask for where you can ask for those negotiations because as you said, sellers are going to resist, so it's it's going to be a delicate part of the negotiation, and and we can we can be sympathetic to that. We understand that. And And so, certainly there there'll be many points in in the acquisition process that would be too early to ask for that. So, when is the sweet spot of um not too late for you and not too early for the I always say um before signing. So, there's often that period where you've effectively agreed on all the terms at that point. And then you basically say, "Hey, before I sign this agreement, I need to meet X, Y, and Z, and I need to do so in an unchaperoned manner, right? Like it's fine if you're on the call to introduce us or in person introduce us, but then I'd like to sit down with the person and have a conversation." Um and typically, we've found with sellers like they're they're fine with that. Like once they know that, "Hey, no kidding." I almost put it as like think of it as more like a confirmatory diligence item, right? Rather than kind of a regular regular due diligence item. Generally, sellers are can get comfortable with that. Same with customer calls. Oftentimes those get pushed till the very end, and it's it's a confirmatory thing. Hey, we need to just double-check to make sure that everything that was told to us is accurate. Assuming everything was accurate, these are the terms, and we're done, right? And And do you let the seller know in advance of insisting on this? Heads-up, I'm going to want this before I sign. Yes, absolutely. And And And again, this sort of goes back to like just approach on deals. I I I tend to be much more like be as upfront and candid and managed in in terms of the communication with the seller so that there are absolutely no surprises, right? Like if they're I hate re-trading. Like there should never be a reason why you have to cut value unless unless candidly unless something like fundamentally doesn't check out. Of course, that's you can open up for for renegotiation. But making sure the seller is aware from day one, "Hey, these are the steps I'm going to take, and this is what I'm going to need before I sign." To be completely candid. And look, I think it tells you something. If If a seller upfront tells you you're not going to be able to talk to a single employee, you're not going to be allowed to talk to a single customer before you sign. Sure. That's a That's a really useful data point to have on day two, you know, before you spend, you know, tens of thousands if not more on on diligence advisors and your time and everything else. Great. What about um some of the other some of the other surprises that that uh that you might encounter? Yeah, I mean, so so So, one of them that that we have seen a few times is um think like just like regulatory compliance issues, and and not ones that just could create historical liability for you. Because obviously, if if it's an asset purchase, you're generally going to be somewhat protected. Typically, with a you know, purchase and sale agreement, you'll negotiate the reps and warranties to to protect yourself somewhat. Um but think of ones where what they were doing historically actually impacts like the the P&L of the business, right? Like meaning like your actual profitability. So, let me you give you a real example. One where let's say you're providing some sort of an in-home service care, right? To to patients. Yeah. There is a contractual level that you need to be providing um you know, a certain number of people qualified to a certain level, right? Uh guess what? Those higher qualifications cost more. And so, what you'll sometimes see is especially in a year or two before sale, you know, you'll sometimes see uh we'll call it, you know, greening the workforce, right? Like where they will, you know, bring in cheaper uh lower-qualified individuals to service. And like you might sometimes be able to get away with that in the short term, but you're going to show higher profit, right? Um you're obviously violating the terms of the contract and potentially even violating law if it's if it's a if it's a regulatory question as well. And so, those are the really hard ones, right? Because now you're not only dealing like when you step into that, not only are you dealing with kind of like historical local liabilities, but literally by going and hiring the the proper level of care that you need to be providing like that's going to hit your profits pretty hard and potentially pretty hard, right? In many cases, these businesses your your actually your highest uh you know, cost item on your on your P&L is is that skilled labor, right? And so, those are the really really hard ones. And so, that just again speaks to in diligence really making sure if that's if that describes it and there are I've looked at probably 10 different variants of this business, right? Uh really making sure that they are absolutely complying with their existing contracts, that complying with the sort the the regulatory regime. Uh is it may sound kind of like boring and like who wants to do compliance due diligence, but it can actually be massively impactful uh in terms of just your margins and and profitability going forward because as soon as you find that obviously you have to fix it, right? And and and those are the ones that can be much harder to to recover uh from from a you know an escrow or something like that however you've structured it in your in your purchase agreement. I um have heard a a lot of people say that you your financial due diligence you're really going to outsource that to a third party a third party due diligence provider. Um and if you disagree with that please please speak. Uh but on the compliance due diligence stuff is that something that how does a searcher handle that if they don't know if you know they if they simply don't know what all the regulations are in any industry they're acquiring into? It it's just what you said. It it is it is outsource it, right? And so so we have there there are specialist consultants and it's one of the it's the it's kind of the the classic searcher dilemma because it it looks like a reasonable amount of money in diligence and you're like ah it's compliance is that really that important? It you know depends on the business model but in many cases it is and so we we just have I mean there are vendors we know and and and and and they are 100% locked onto okay we've seen every variant of uh you know I'll I'll I'll I'll I'll put it nicely you know not not abuse but uh misuse of of uh in in this sector and so they're able to very quickly hone in and say hey just so you know like they're they're effectively like overbilling or or underbilling or or whatever the issue is. It's really hard for a searcher if they don't have a background in that space to know what those are and so that is one area that that that we strongly recommend bringing an outside party to assist with. And again they're they're used to it. So really this question is actually doesn't need to be um this issue doesn't need to be overcomplicated. It's simply the decision of spending the money on the due diligence which you're going to outsource so you don't need to really educate yourself too deeply uh on the on the regulations of of the of the industry during the acquisition process. Exactly. And and and understanding candidly like how material is this to the business, right? Cuz I've seen it where people thought that it was not a material issue and then it actually became very very big. And so it's it's having I'd say the searcher having the judgment to say hey actually this I think this is pretty important for the business and basically raising their hand and say hey I need outside help, right? And there's I mean not nothing wrong with that. It's that's the right answer. It's just it's just having that that judgment to do that though. Let's pivot into Bryden a little bit. Um we we've already talked about your two business partners somewhat um but talk to me about the evolution of you you and Steve doing I guess kind of one-off investments and and helping searchers for the last few years. You've you've worked with 70. You've gotten 40 across the finish line. Um so what took you from doing it the way you'd been doing it kind of on a one-off basis to formalizing this into into Bryden? And actually why don't you first tell tell us what Bryden is and then answer my question. All right, great. So so yeah so the Bryden Group um you know we we do invest we will take minority stakes in traditional searchers in in a small number especially if they are kind of we feel like we can be particularly valuable in their search. So if they're searching in software or government services or something where we think we can add disproportionate value. Um but what we also wanted to do was create what we're calling an entrepreneur in residence program and basically with that program we will fund 90% of our entrepreneur in residence's search you know both at the at the search phase and then at the deal phase. Um and uh and basically just provide a lot more support to those. So we'll pick five a year. They come through as a an entrepreneur in residence or EIR cohort. Uh they go through training um and and the reason for that is you know as we sort of stepping back as we thought about hey is this is this something that we want to we want to do is this something beyond just personal investing and kind of it's a passion project is there something that we really want to build here? And I I think our view was that yes but it absolutely like the offering had to be much better for searchers, right? Like we didn't want to just go be another kind of like moderately value add person who takes 10 to 20% stakes in traditional searches, you know um just it just personally that was not kind of what what compelled us. Um so that was what the the first thing was like it had to just be a better offer for searchers or a better you know deal for searchers. Um and then the second thing from our perspective is um like we really wanted to be much more value add for our searchers. And then when we when we candidly when we sat down and looked at what that what that meant it just meant like it's just really hard I mean and people do it but like going and writing small checks to the 40 searchers and it's just like our view is like we would much rather like put all our eggs in one basket, right? And then watch the basket and really help the basket. Uh it's just kind of where we personally came down, right? And there's no there's no right or wrong on this at all. But as we thought about like what what do we want to actually do um you know if we are going to do do this full-time that was it. It was like hey how how do we do that? And so and so like I mean a few of the things in terms of that first bucket of trying to make it better one of the one of the groups that we saw that I had a lot of conversation or we had a lot of conversations with were people a few years out of business school. So think like the classic like McKinsey engagement manager they they they took a search class in business school graduated uh for whatever reason family reason whatever reason decided to to take the offer from a McKinsey or a Goldman or something like that uh and then two or three years in realized that you know there there may be more to life uh and and are then very interested in search. And and candidly the problem and again this is not a universal problem but the problem there is that like it's really hard for those searchers to then step back and do a traditional search paying themselves 115k a year, right? Like it's just that's just not you know it's a pretty significant cut. Um and so what we want to do what we tried to create is like okay here it's a system where we'll pay between 150 to 200 or we support salaries as I should should say at the search level between 150,000 and 200,000 dollars a year. Um and so those are usually you know still significant pay cuts but they're they help take the edge off, right? For certain people. Um and then the other piece for us was was really minimizing the downside, right? Is um we never wanted to use search in our backing searchers as kind of like option value, right? Like hey they find a great deal then great that's you know good for us and we get to invest and if they don't well that's too bad, right? Let's move on to the next. I I think we very much wanted to be like no we like have real skin in the game with our searchers and really minimize that downside, right? So so we want you know we want our searchers to we want every one of those five entrepreneurs in residence and obviously the other traditional searchers we're backing like we all want them to have really nice outcomes, right? And what I'll take a really nice outcome for all of them over some massive home run on one if if if two or three fail. Um and so we just tried to design the program that way. So um and we can talk a little bit more about kind of the support and things like that that we're we're we're providing but it's trying to take some of those like best practices and and approach from private equity and just making our searchers' lives better, easier and and you know leading to better outcomes. And to be clear with everybody this is uh based on the traditional search fund model. So so the financial terms and so on are um are going to are going to reflect that. Going to look like that. Yeah so the the equity will exactly. Yeah so so the the salary the salary is higher and then but then the equity split um will be the similar traditional terms you know up to 25%. Yeah. And would you call Bryden Group an accelerator? I mean would you would you kind of lump it in with this this this this burgeoning category of search accelerators? Yeah I mean I I think I think that that that is that is fair. I mean I think you know one of the things that we're that is different is we are trying to like combine it's it's more like a hybrid of private equity and search I I I would say um which which is I think is is is different. But yeah I mean it is you know you know it is an accelerator in the sense of you know the the percentage that we're backing and and providing a lot more support. Okay. And so the the this category of accelerators are similarly all based on the traditional search fund model. So these are options if you are somebody considering a traditional search fund you would maybe go the I guess the the traditional haha route of raising money from kind of the the the pool of traditional search fund investors or you would look to a Bryden Group or one of the other small handful of of accelerators out there and kind of work exclusively with the accelerator. Do is that are those kind of the the options is do I understand it correctly? Exactly. Yeah. I mean in our case we're we're writing 90% of the equity so we we've intentionally left 10% for the searcher if they want to you know if they had a great mentor or a former boss or if they think there's someone who they think could be disproportionately valuable in their search or if they can you know would want to fill a board seat or something like that we we try to leave that open. But yeah I mean obviously the the vast exactly the vast majority of the equity is coming from us. Mhm. And the um in this world of I mean we're we're seeing more and more accelerators. Um why why what is the trend there? Is that just is that just kind of correlated to the growth in search itself or is there something behind the scenes that search investors understand you you kind of touched on it a second ago where where you were you and Steve were talking about like philosophically what do you want to do here? Do you want to just continue to do one-off stuff or do you want to formalize and maybe do something bigger more concerted? Um what what is the can you can you extrapolate from your and Steve's experience to to this kind of phenomenon of the of search fund accelerators and the increasing number of them? Yeah I mean I I think I think and and I don't want to speak for for anyone else's you know motivations but but I I know most of them and I think I I can I can say this, I think a desire to be more deeply involved and more helpful. Uh, and and recognizing that that just means it's going to be a smaller number of people that you can realistically service until without hiring a a group of 10 analysts, at which point, you know, your your value add is relatively diluted. And so, I I think I think that is is a big feature, right? Just candidly, like on the investor side, kind of just a a recognition of, hey, like I I want to personally be more involved and be more helpful and try to, you know, do that. I I I think is is certainly a a driver of it. Um, I I think on the, you know, you know, on the on the searcher side, I think there is something nice. And again, there's as someone who has invested literally in all three flavors, I I I like all, you know, self-funded, traditional, and kind of accelerator. Um, you know, there there's no right answer. I think it's a very very personal question. But I I I think there is a lot of, um, I mean, we've seen a lot of of of an amazing response from people who have either great operating backgrounds, you know, consulting, banking, something like that, but they just, you know, they've never done it a full transaction before, and they recognize that like it's hard. And and that one decision is going to impact the next 5 years of their life, you know, positively or negatively. And so, trying to do trying to, you know, partner with someone who's going to be providing more support, I think is attractive. And so, I think I think there's probably, you know, the push and the pull on both those sides, which is why which is partially what's, you know, driving the the growth in accelerators. And um, let let's do a quick comparison. So, Pacific Lake is is a fund that that you often hear about associated with traditional search funds. Um, I I just use them as as a kind of a stand-in for a traditional big name in for a big name that you hear a lot in traditional search funds, um, not to pick on them. But compare the experience of a traditional searcher who would kind of go with a Pacific go with a Pacific Lake to um, to to to one to one of your entrepreneurs in residence. Like, what is it what is their How is it going to feel different? How is it going to be different, that experience? Yeah, and again, I I I won't say I mean, like, the Pacific Lake guys are great. I'm not going to speak I won't say I'll say specifically them, but just generally, if you if you think of that kind of intermediate, if you think of the the spectrum, just a traditional search. So, to get kicked off, I mean, they're going out and finding anywhere from 10 to 20 plus investors, right? Um, and so, there's an element of just that fundraise, which some searchers like and some searchers don't, right? There's again, there's no there's no right or wrong answer. Um, and then from that, you know, they'll build a an investor base in that traditional. And then, they'll get kind of recommendations or some best practices or typically templates and stuff like that from from some from some of those investors, right? And then, as they're going along, it's it's it's a more self-directed. They're they're building the CRM system from scratch. They're doing all their sourcing from scratch, uh, etc. And, you know, as they find an opportunity, they take it back to that group of called 15 investors, and those investors kind of give a thumbs up or thumbs down, or sometimes a in the middle, which is the worst possible answer, right? Um, but they are, you know, it is it is a much more kind of individual sport, if you if you will, right? And those traditional investors certainly provide support, but it it's more of an individual sport. Um, what what we're trying to do, and again, there's there's no right or wrong answer, it's just a different model, is basically from day one, I mean, beyond raising that extra 10%, right? Which is Hey, do you Is there someone else you want in the cap table? Yes or no? If no, okay, then here's someone else who can come in, right? It's it's it's pretty it's pretty pretty pretty simple on that front. But then, but no kidding, from the search search perspective, I mean, one of the things that that we saw that was that was, um, a little bit, you know, sad or frustrating for our searchers is having to, you know, it often takes 6 months for them to really get that sourcing engine up and running. And so, instead, what we have is like, hey, we we literally have an outsourced team that we work with that does a bunch of that like data scraping, like kind of that, you know, cleaning up the Excel, finding the phone numbers, normalizing all that stuff. Uh, and so, that literally from day one, if you step in as an EIR with Brydon, it's like, okay, here's your CRM system. Like, don't go shop HubSpot and Salesforce and everything. It's like, here's your CRM system. Like, what industry are you going to be searching in? Okay, like, these are, you know, this is what we recommend. This is how you go build a list. And then, oh, by the way, this is like your outsourced team to help you, you know, from day one, who has yeah, have done this many many times and can can help you, too. Uh, and so, it's just I think from from our perspective, like, we want our searchers to be searching for 24 months, right? Uh, well, ideally much less than that, but at least 24 months, you know. Um, and so, part of that is just making sure they've got that support. And then, candidly, on the on the deal side, and this is something else that that that we see, um, that can be hard is that, uh, with a lot of different investors, often times the searcher's not going to get like a clear thumbs up or thumbs down, right? And so, they can spend a lot of time, you know, and effort on a deal, and ultimately, they come back and their and their investors are like, ah, you know, maybe maybe not, you know. Uh, whereas like for us, it's like, hey, we're sitting down with the searcher on every opportunity we're looking at, and like, yes, let's run hard at this, or let's not. Or, this is such a good business that you should pay more for it. That's the one where we see a lot, right? It's really hard in the traditional model to pay up for a really nice business. Um, and so, it's like, hey, like, we think this is an absolutely outstanding software business. Yes, you should pay a little bit more for it, right? Like, it it is it is absolutely worth that. Um, and so, that's a big difference. And then, lastly, I mean, just on the sourcing side, you know, all three of us, the the founders, like, we have great relationships. I mean, we see a lot of proprietary deal flow today, and being able to like take that and give that to our searchers, I think is something different than what happens necessarily in the traditional model. Like, we will literally be going out, and if someone is searching in in GovTech, like, okay, these are our 20 contacts, and as soon as we get new deal flow coming in, like, we we we pass that along. And so, it just helps the, you know, it helps searchers get up the learning curve faster who are doing our EIR EIR program, and hopefully gets them a lot more kind of quality at bats, and ultimately better outcomes. Going back to this, um, increasing number of accelerators we're seeing, one of the things that I've I've often heard from searchers is that yeah, there's this there's this months-long process of of building their own, deal engine, basically deal flow engine. And then, once they find a deal, um, you know, they're they're off to the races with their acquisition, but, you know, then their their engine kind of just goes to waste. They've spent all this time building this engine. And so, um, the idea of an accelerator is like there's this perpetual engine there that you can step right into. Um, and and then, you guys, since you're working with numerous searchers at all times, never turn the engine off. Um, and yeah, so that seems like a great, yeah, um, kind of deal a way a way to scale deal flow, uh, in an accelerator model that the lone searcher's not going to not going to be able to do. E- exactly. So, that ex- exactly, that exhaust has value, right? To to to to to to the searcher. But then, also, I mean, the other big thing that that and it's not talked about often in in in search is that like most most brokers or lower middle market bankers won't show opportunities to searchers, right? Whether traditional or self-funded, right? They they hear searcher, and they think, okay, they don't have committed capital, right? And so, we're just not going to show them the deal. Like, we just don't know if they're going to be able to close at the end, um, rightly or wrongly, right? Um, and so, I think that that is another advantage for us, you know, with Brydon is we one, we have these relationships with with bankers and brokers, but we can say like we are committed capital, all right? It it is like like you know that we are, you know, if if we like this deal, like, this deal is, you know, we're going to get this deal done. Um, and so, it kind of provides the best of both worlds, right? Cuz to brokers and bankers, they can go, okay, great, there's committed capital here. And to sellers, but then also, there is that there is the unique flavor of like, but it's not just private equity, right? There's like, you know, we have an entrepreneur, and that entrepreneur is literally going to take over that business and step into the CEO role and take care of that, you know, and take care of that business and and uh, um, you know, marshal the business through the next phase of growth. And so, in some ways, it really is kind of the best of both worlds from a sourcing perspective, having that kind of private equity and search flavor to it, in our experience. And so, just to be absolutely clear with the audience, so, a traditional search fund searcher um, has investors lined up that they will take their opportunities to. But and and at that point, the the the the investors will say yay or nay, or as you said, worst possible case, maybe. Um, but they can't claim to have truly committed capital for a particular deal. Uh, and and that's that's that's the the the normal experience the the conventional experience for traditional search funder. And so, with you guys, uh, you your searchers, your entrepreneurs in residence can go to sellers and say, you know, if if we decide we like this deal, we can we can stroke a check, whatever, next week. E- exactly. Yep, 100%. Okay, great. Um, you touched on it, and I've seen, uh, Steve Ressler, um, talk on another podcast about it, thesis, uh, the the thesis of your searchers and your your entrepreneurs in residence. So, to work with Brydon, should I have uh, an industry focus and and and or even more strongly an industry thesis? Uh, do you want to do Are you open to working with people who have neither? Uh, the answer is yes, we are open to to both. I I think from our own experience, from the research that's been done, um, thesis-driven searches candidly just work better, right? They end up with better outcomes. They end up with higher deal close rates, and they end up with, beyond that, you know, higher IRRs post close. Um, and we can talk about the reasons for that. So, so, you know, when we were kind of creating Brydon, that was and looking at kind of like the causes of sources of success and failure in search, that was that was such a recurring theme that we wanted to make sure that our EIRs are aligned with that. And that's not to say that they have to come in with a an industry thesis. I mean, we're we're encouraging them if they do, that's great, right? If someone has spent a bunch of time in healthcare services and they see an opportunity to do a roll-up or they see an opportunity to to, you know, do a single acquisition, but it's in a niche, great, like we'll voice for that. If not, that's fine, but we all we want to sit down and come up with several of those sub-industries where they're going to spend disproportionate time. And it makes sense, right? It's it's you know, I always laughed at like knowledge and relationships compound, but they tend to compound compound by industry, right? It tends to be more more narrowly constrained in terms of where where that where that adds up. Now, that's it. I mean, look, like given our backgrounds in software and things like that, it's it's a pretty broad area range of industries that we're we're backing searchers in, but we do think there is still a lot more value in spending disproportionate time around industry search or industry thesis search versus just a complete scatter shot. Alex, a personal question for you. Do you think are you somebody that envisioned himself at some point in his career doing something entrepreneurial inevitably or not necessarily? It was it really was this was opportunistic not not that has a negative valence to it, but I just mean you this opportunity came along and it and and and that's what excited you and that's why you find yourself as an entrepreneur. I think I think more the latter. More just like this this was such a unique opportunity and feeling like we could actually go build something really special and and, you know, valuable for searchers and I would say, you know, valuable beyond that was was incredibly appealing to me. You know, it's not like I wouldn't have left for anything else, right? There was not there was not another thing I was, you know, it wasn't kind of hey, I want to you know, want to go be an entrepreneur and and do something. It was more like no, this is just I think it's a tremendous opportunity and candidly like we've been you know, it's been wonderful getting to work with the searchers that we've gotten to work with and other investors and kind of the community. And so getting to do that full-time and actually be 100% dedicated to that and supporting it was just something pretty special for it for us. Can people still come to you and Steve and George with deals that they already have if they're not part of Brydon? Yep, absolutely. Yeah, so we'll we'll you know, very much So you'll continue to to invest. And candidly, we we do a lot of even if it's not a question of investing, if it's just a question of like people being like, hey, I'd love a second set of eyes on this deal. Like we we do that a lot, right? I think some some of my candidly, my personal proudest moments were probably sitting down with searchers and being like, this is one where you should probably just move on, you know? And and help helping helping people avoid a landmine, you know, a situation where they could have gotten pretty pretty ugly. So always happy and and I think you know, as you know, I mean, Steve has done a tremendous job you know, with that in the community and we still want to, right? Like you know, whether it's whether it's investing or or just advice or if we can be helpful or introductions to other investors, please please do reach out. And even as a self-funded, I I could I could I could feel that way. absolutely. Absolutely. Great. And where can we find how can we connect with you Alex and and tell us the socials and URL for Brydon as well? Yeah, so so our website brydon.com, it's b r y d o n and there's there's a lot more information there on the entrepreneur in residence program and the application and everything. And then you can reach out to me, it's alexander.mears m e a r s at brydon.com and I'm on Twitter levered knowledge, no e at the end is is is my Twitter handle. And yeah, please please do reach out if if you're interested in learning more or just just to connect on search more broadly. And this the first cohort, you have five slots. How many are full and when is the deadline to like give us a timeline on that if anybody's interested? Yeah, so June June 15th is the deadline for the applications and we've not officially made any offers. We're not planning to until that June until after that June 15th deadline just to give everyone time to to get applications in. And the application is a form on the website and then receive a call from you and goes from there sort of thing? Yep, exactly. The interview process and then and then a a few assessment tests. Unfortunately, having gone through selection at that certain Navy SEAL team, we have we we have we're we're working with the same person who designed that to help on the on the the the testing on this one, but it's it's it'll be it'll be fun and and searchers helping learn learn a lot in the in the process. Alex, thanks so much for for sharing. I mean, we could have gone on a lot longer here and I'm sure I'll I'll want to have you back on and certainly to hear about how that first cohort has done. So lots to talk about in the in the years ahead. Congratulations on a big career move for you and the launch of Brydon. Thanks a lot for coming on, Alex.