Kristen Perez Gabe Perez welcome to acquiring minds you two thanks for having us will thanks great to be here well I've had multiple guests on who've bought a business with their spouse their partner but I've never had both people in the couple on at the same time so this is a bit of a first that I'm looking forward to I'm also looking forward to it because I think many of the themes in your story uh your motivations for choosing this path as a family are gonna resonate with people so let's start with some backstory on the two of you who wants to kick us off I guess I'll go first um well I guess first off we uh I I just want to say I think I I speak for the both of us that um this is pretty awesome that we're on this podcast right now this podcast played a very um really important role and and in our journey and you know kind of getting ourselves comfortable with the idea of doing this so you know I know other people have said this to you I I feel like I'd be remiss in not just thanking you for what you've done and what you've done for this community and and you've it's meant a lot to us so it's really an honor to be here on on this this podcast well Gabe thank you very much s very kind of you to say appreciate it thank you Kristen I really appreciate it so I am originally from New York um was born in Manhattan uh my to a Puerto Rican mother my mother was um 18 when she moved here um and my father uh was of H Cuban descent um you know my mother was a social security worker my dad was a construction worker so we grew up pretty blue collar um uh bouncing around New York for a bunch of years uh moved out to the suburbs where uh it was a very different life I was exposed to money uh uh and the idea of going to college um was a pretty important sort of transition in in my life um I ended up how old were you when you moved to the sub I was uh 8th grade so um you know delicate time pretty delicate time it was uh you know and and my parents ended up getting divorced right around then so it was a it was a very challenging um part of my life and I think revisiting that was actually a big part of this story as well um as I was doing some reflection and thinking about my life and where I was and where I'd been really coming to terms with some of the feelings and things I I I think I was suppressing back back then uh was a really important part of helping me get my mind right heading into this acquisition process um and so you know it's like well why are you talking about your childhood well you know it's uh it's it's an important part of everyone's life I think to under understand that um I ended up going to uh uh forom in the Bronx for undergrad um and you know cut my teeth in the Property and Casualty Insurance world after college uh at that point I met a friend a colleague who floated the idea of going to business school and it's something I never considered um and I I thought it for a lot of reasons it made sense in the same way I kind of evaluated this opportunity was really the same way I evaluated going to business school um you know there was a a right way to do it and for me that was trying to get into the best school I could get into uh and do it full-time and get it out of the way um so I I ended up going to tuck up at Dartmouth um and it was a great two years we had our two first kids were born there our first child Olivia was born uh my first uh first semester of business school so uh that was a pretty crazy time um isn't that when you're supposed to be doing keg stands and socializing and networking with all the EX Future Leaders of the world Gabe I think we got some street cred with with my classmates um you know being as responsible as we were uh but uh I wouldn't have changed it for anything I think you know we were young parents we were 27 26 27 at the time yeah um and uh I think now being the age we are I'm 43 now having you know kids at a young age I think was was great you know and I think um you know we're able to to be a big part of their lives you know being a parent exhausting and I can't imagine doing this if I was uh much older and having young kids um by the way I am 44 about to have a baby my second but still everyone's different everyone's different well this is my experience it may not be yours U I'm a late bloomer what can I say go ahead yeah um yeah and and uh you know after business school I I ended up um working for a consulting company lek Consulting out of Boston for a couple years um and our family continued to grow we had our third child and we're looking to really settle down um and ended up moving back to our hometown in New Jersey um which uh uh is the house that Kristen grew up in um so we ended up buying it from her parents and uh that's where I started my healthc care career so I spent about a decade working in healthcare in various different capacities most recently for a Medicare Advantage company um overseeing the roll out of their software product uh they asked Physicians to use when they were um evaluating their patients um at the peak we had about 40 people on the team uh we had grown that from about a team of six um we kicked butt you know the company went public uh it was it was a really cool experience um and then a company hit some hard times and on late 2022 they told me that uh I had to lay off my team and you know they were restructuring that really stung um I think when you build something when you contribute to such a degree of value creation uh and and for that to happen really really stung me um and I think you know I decided to take Severance and take time off and decide what was next and you know that's that's really where the the ETA process started now I can get more into that but that's my story anyway that was great Gabe Kristen okay what about you so Gabe and I have been together a long time so my story is kind of interwoven with with his um I grew up in that New Jersey suburb that he moved to so um I'm from kind of a traditional upper middle class family uh New Jersey suburb I went to college and got my undergrad degree in Business after college I bounced around I had a few jobs the last of which was on a trading floor of a hedge fund which was really fun at the time um I did really well there it was uh a fun job an exciting job um I was f- liked I was I was made to feel like a real part of the team but then around this time was when Gabe started thinking about business school so I was I liked this job but I was thinking a lot about what does this mean for my future right am I really going to work at this hedge fund as a research assistant Administrative Assistant for the rest of my life probably not uh so Gabe got into business school and that really changed a lot at that point it was around 2009 um that year year we got married we had our first baby we moved to Handover um first baby first semester like Gabe said second baby the last semester of business school and I think when Gabe got that management consulting job we had to make a big decision about my career you know I had been home with the kids while he was in business school and when he took that management consulting job it really felt like both of us could not be working on a career at the same time those jobs are known for tons of travel um you're basically signing up to work every waking hour when you're a Management Consultant um so at that point I didn't have a career that I was passionate about going back to so I made the decision to stay home with the kids and I felt really good about that I always wanted to be a mom um I was happy to make the kids my number one priority and let Gabe focus on his career so that was about a decade I was home with them for about a decade before I started thinking about next steps uh that happened when the kids went to school kisten yeah did you did you expect it to be 10 years going into it or did it end up being longer or shorter than you thought I think it ended up being longer yeah okay it just always you know I think we were like a lot of families is will when you start doing the calculation of how much it would cost to put take care of four kids to pay someone else to take care of four kids and how much um I would make it just never really made sense and I was happy enough to do it I think maybe we would have been further along financially if I had works if we had two working parents but it was kind of like a sacrifice that we decided to make but it was something you thought would be not forever So eventually thought you'd go back to your that's why when the kids were all in full day school I started realizing like I I wasn't exhausted anymore like I had mental space and I started thinking about what can I do what kind of meaningful work can I do outside of the home but still prioritize the kids and that's like really hard I think I was like a lot of moms who have stayed home for a period of time I felt like I had grown so much as a person and I had more to offer than I did before I had the kids right like I had a lot of experiences I like to joke that I had a business degree by osmosis like I was at tuck with gab like we have a lot of smart friends like I'm in um circles with people who do a lot of interesting things and I am just the type of person who's always seeking out knowledge and content and learning so I felt like I was valuable to the job market but really when I went to look at it uh 10 years after staying home with the kids like there really wasn't much for me to do so I I tried a few things I did uh baby sleep Consulting um which was fun I I was a preschool teacher for 2 years but that was during Co and kind of a disaster um and then we moved here to Western Mass um I took some time to settle us and then again I started hitting the job market and I started looking at admin jobs again you know that's kind of what I was doing before I had the kids and they just like I did not see it being a good fit I I got pretty far in some interviews and in the end I think having to go to a desk every day like being expected to show up wasn't going to be a fit with my family priorities and four kids um and really it was hard to wrap our head around like like the pay that I would make even though we weren't paying for child care having me unavailable and at a desk was just like it was always a calculation of was it worth it um and that kind of leads up to the time where Gabe um went through the restructuring that was really hard for me to see him go through I saw how hard he worked he's an extremely hardworking person and and it was super disheartening to know that you could put everything into something and in the end if you're not in charge like it could just be taken away so that was kind of where we were at when Gabe introduced ETA well it's funny guys because it it it does certainly feel like all roads are leading to this decision I mean the the problems that you're ring in your life in your lives are nicely solved if you will um by becoming your own by buying a business and becoming owners um but I I couple things I do want to also note that like while this is a story of a couple I also think it's very much a story of each of you individually so people listening so Kristen what you just described as a woman this is something that women who have an appetite um to have a professional career but also have kids know too well I mean this is a classic story of if you decide to step off out of the race for a while getting back into it is very difficult you're punished you're you in the sense that like you you know you don't you're not earning what you think you're worth none of that life experience you've acred it really matters on the on the market and and it's just it's a very constantly hard kind of thing to confront um so you know the modern American woman has to deal with this and so you're you're perfect encapsulation of this am I am I wrong that is completely what I was trying to convey being a mom is you know being a mom of any amount of kids makes you a bath in a way that's really hard to turn into bullet points on a resume it's it just there's experience there and there's value there but it's not something that translates so re-entry into the work the work Market is so hard and I think it was hard as as her husband to you know sit there and and realize I've always thought Kristen um could probably have been better at business than me um in fact whenever we go to any you know ex a work events or conferences uh I I made sure to bring Kristen because she uh just you know lights up a room and and can can you know just really good at making connections and meeting people and um I think seeing her as a mom of four kids and how difficult it can be to manage that and organize it um I just knew what an underutilized asset she was how romantic it's so ROM and to sit there and just like see her like interviewing for these jobs that I like were just really she was way overqualified for really yeah and yet she's being told that she doesn't have the experience and it's a low-paying job and so it's it's frustrating right I can imagine and then Gabe you with just we haven't quite gotten I think to kind of the kind of emotional crisis that you experience but I think um you know anybody who's experienced kind of a deep profession kind of Crisis that's also really tied in kind of emotionally uh will resonate with with what we're about to hear I think from out of your mouth but so anyway just want to call out that like um a lot of the themes in your story independ of what you are both going through independently I think are are um patterns that you'll see in in people's lives um aside from just the fact that you're doing this as a couple so I wanted to say that the other thing I wanted to ask you guys which I know from the preall is your move to Western mass and the your your experience of the economics of trying to live in a major metro area with four kids maybe you were going to get there so if I'm spoiling it but tell if you're G to get there fine but otherwise please tell us I think that's a very important part of the story it's and it's consistent with the pattern we've had as a couple um you know it's going to business school deciding where I was going to work after business school having more kids um you know deciding to move to New Jersey and kind of settle down a bit moving out to Western Mass in each one of those cases we we really talk through you know what are the pros and cons you know what do we need to think about as we embark on this next chapter and um and really make sure we're on the same page like you know we still want the same things in life and I think um you know moving a western Mass I think yeah as you said I mean it's it's difficult as a you know family of four and a you know uh we had the smallest house on the Block um but you know taxes were super high uh the cost of living is just high and yeah you know as as we we knew we had some equity in the house and you know we could upgrade in size and Quality quality of life um you know maybe co co changed a lot of people's mindsets um but I think uh you know I was working remotely so um it it made sense for us and we we kind of pulled the trigger I I just will add that in terms of themes of our story that wasn't a normal thing to do like when we told people in our town we're moving to Western Mass they were like wait why what why would you ever leave this Suburban Oasis um and so we had to get comfortable doing something that people don't understand and I think that really worked a muscle for at least me personally when we decided to buy a business because people were like wait what are you doing you know it was a and I had to be comfortable with they've never heard of this before and yeah it sounds crazy so a building block exactly yeah good good practice for continuing to let the world know that you're making unconventional decisions I love that um and and just for people who don't know western Mass give us a quick picture it's kind of rural what's it why western Mass what's it got to offer what's it look like well it's it's kind of like New Jersey in the sense of if you ask people what western Mass actually is they would say anything west of Worcester uh we are way west we're in Berkshire County so it's the Western most County in Massachusetts um we live in uh Williamstown which is uh a college town Williams college is here and we uh you know so we live in the very top corner of Massachusetts you can walk to Vermont from our house um pretty remote it's pretty rural to small community um but we love it it's been great okay Gabe please I think it was your turn to carry on the story after being disillusioned with your corporate experience yeah I think I think um the the weight of what was in front of us really hit home and I I you know you're in the day-to-day of your job you don't really have time to sit back and think about these things um but I I I think that the minute I realized what my I could very clearly see what my future was if I continue down this path or at least the likely future um moving from job to job VP job to VP job to maybe a SVP or CEO at one point all jobs that I really had no interest in actually having I mean if you have met a lot of these people that work in these these jobs jobs in these corporations was just wasn't appealing to me but I was still you know fighting for it for some reason um and I saw a lot of risk in that that path like there was no certainty there right and this what what happened to me really it really hit home and and I started to think about college my kids are going to be in college soon you know we've got several million dollars in College tuition probably um cars and you know everything else that comes with kids coming of age um and that's that was scary like to think about you know and and it's it's a it's it's a big reason why a lot of people don't have kids in the first place you know and I think we were just of the opinion we want to have kids we're going to figure it out and yeah um and so you know those two things like really being really understanding where I was and the gravity of this next decision and where I was in my career I was 42 and I was like man I've got like I don't know 10 years where I could like physically go hard right like in my next thing and like go all in and it maybe another 20 if I'm if I'm kind of got things going right and um that's not a lot of time like yeah you have to make a decision at some point and I I was still searching for what what is that next step and I you know when I thought about some of the things that I I trying to understand what was preventing me from getting to that next level in my corporate career it always seemed like I was I waiting for that next promotion and never got it or you know just I don't know it it felt like it was a a struggle something was getting in my way so I wanted to understand that um and I think it was a lot of self self-loathing happening at that point in my life like I just didn't like who I who who I had become like I was just not happy um I I looked back at my I kept the journal for many years and I recently looked back in my journal and I mean looking back at some of the things I wrote in there about how unhappy I was in my career and just in general um was really like startling you know and then I compare that with how I feel now and I mean things could not be any different um and do you think in the moment even though you were it sounds like even though you were literally writing this stuff down your emotional state at the time it somehow wasn't you didn't quite realize it because it's like you've only had recognition of it after the fact yeah that that's right rediscovering kind of who I was and what makes up sort of my my character like why why why do I why am I the way that I am right you know I think really un and with the help of my family my childhood friends growing up um you know we talked through some stuff and that needed to be talked to that hadn't been talked to talked about for while um so and this is this is when you revisit like the move to the suburbs and some of the and I probably the divorce as well like this is this you you start unpacking some of that yeah this is that moment yeah exactly what did you learn about yourself maybe maybe there that's a separate podcast or too personal but is there anything yeah no I I I think um I I just realized how difficult a time it was and how I never really gave it enough credit for like how how how difficult that probably was for me to deal with at that age and not really appreciating it um yeah and I think you know I just uh you go from being everyone in your school as a last name Perez or Hernandez and you go to you know Westfield where everyone's last name is Smith felt like a fish out of water and in many ways I felt like like a fish out of water ever since and you know I think about how I feel now in my role it's I've almost gone back to my roots of blue collar upbringing I own a construction company basically and the people I interact with on a daily basis or blue collar and I've you know I I feel more comfortable now in the shop um than I ever did in a boardroom you know and I think uh that's part I think of why I feel so different now than I had before and I think so yeah it's about it's a transaction but this is also about you know a transformation really I mean and realizing your your potential and you know I think um and you know I I I still didn't really know what I was going to do right I was still looking for jobs I knew I was starting to understand a little bit more about myself I still didn't know what the heck that meant for my future and you know I was still looking for jobs and came across a job listing for chenmark on the tuck JW board and I was like huh that looks interesting um they had a you know kind of a GM and training type role and doing some research on chenmark I came across their podcast on acquiring minds and that's how I found you and the rest is history the rest is history that's right I'm so you know touched and honored that acquiring minds has been part of the journey guys but but it also sounds like chenmark deserves a little credit here if that first episode hadn't intrigued you uh so chenmark if you're listening yeah that's right uh that's really cool that's that's great Kristen were you sensing his unhappiness in those years I mean yeah it's one of those things where it's like this is what people do right I think we knew that we would prefer not to be working at in healthcare you weren't passionate about healthare or um but you were just putting your head down and you know he was providing for our family we had a good life we had beautiful kids like I think he was just doing what he thought he should be doing um and really we didn't feel like we had many options you know what what were the options we could start a business like we definitely had conversations during those years of you know daydreaming about ideas of businesses we could start but I think we knew that that was just too risky for people in our situation we we needed gab's paycheck to pay our mortgage like we weren't going to we didn't have the luxury to start a business from scratch so I think what Gabe said you know we were in it but we didn't realize it could be different I'm reminded of Christian bateson's interview Christian who bought the the construction cleaning business in Georgia Finance background 20 years in a financial in on a financial career progression and just absolutely miserable but at some point tells himself like if I can just slog through another 20 years if I can just you know this is kind of what I have to do so if I could just make it to retirement um just to kind of before he kind of Awakened if you will it was just this kind of like well this is just how life looks I mean you got to provide and it's a you know pays me well so I guess this is this I guess this is it sort of mentality yeah I mean you use the word Awakening and that's like the perfect word for it I mean you know I've said to many people it's like taking the red pill in The Matrix I once once like the risk calculus changed in my head it was I was left with two options right and I I told Kristen uh we're talking about this yesterday but you know if you lay out these two options side by side without any sort of you know indication of risk of either option right so you evaluate option one which is Corporate option two is going SNB and buying a small company I think 10 out of 10 people would probably pick SMB based on the the economics of it and just the the overall opportunity and the autonomy I think what gets in people's way is the risk right and I think um once that's gone I and and it was gone like I there was I mean in my mind it was like there's doing what I was doing was just as risky as this you know in many ways and for my my my my mental health our Financial Health you know for a number of reasons and I think um you know deciding to go down the SMB path um I think was just it was just such a clear option once it like really settled in it was like this is the way like this is the only way right and like I needed to get there to like get through the process cuz like it's a hard process and like yeah the transaction but then the the transition and the managing like it's all very hard like but having that mindset like I needed to be in that mindset before going into this process and I think um I don't know I I thought maybe I was ready at certain other points in my life but I don't I don't think I was like I think there was just it just happened when it was supposed to happen no I only just the thing about risk and you know this concept that is so I think is so helpful people think about having a job corporate job generally as like the the less risky option the risk-free option and somebody has put it very well I don't know who but this concept now travels where actually that's just like the ultimate in customer concentration to borrow a term from our world you have just your employer and you are just at the mercy of decisions on high and you exper and so so so it's not merely as as riskless as it appears indeed it's quite risky a job um and you were on the other side of experiencing that because somebody who's maybe you know their careers just continued to progress they're in a W2 and they're you know they're progressing getting promoted and nothing there's never been kind some kind of um crisis in that or interruption in that they continue on their merry way and maybe never realize the risk of it because it it never it never bites them but you were on the other side of an experience where oh like this corporate path can be really is really risky because this decision was made and all that worked for was you know cast aside and so so that probably really informed or really made visceral your sense of the risk of a W2 whereas for other people maybe they get it intellectually but they've never felt it um like you did yeah I think that's right so yeah it took a little while for him to get me on board because you know he was going through this emotional journey I wasn't sure if it was like a midlife crisis yeah so and then he throws out this oh we're going to buy I want to buy a business like now he knows what he's going to do and I know Gabe and when he sets his mind to something I knew it was going to happen but at the same time you know coming from um our world like we don't know anyone who owns a plumbing business or a types of businesses he was talking about I was like okay first of all we know nothing about that and second of all where are we going to find the money to buy like a million dollar $2 million three my what how how are we going to do that like it seemed very unrealistic so then you know he sent me acquiring mindes um well I spent this one weekend of my life at a volleyball tournament with my daughter Mohan son like pacing the Casino floors for exercise in between games and binging acquiring minds and texting G questions like uh I read the books um and I I did I that's full circle for me Kristen I have sat at those tables playing Blackjack as a younger you're man in college long time ago but still I know the I know that I know that casino floor so I'm glad to hear that my my voice was in your ears that's beautiful go ahead yes I mean I got there and um I was you know I Tres gaped right we've been through a lot and life together so it it made sense and maybe it wasn't the red pill that gave the Matrix pill but um I definitely got there and it solved for a lot of our problems and it seemed like a solid plan I was all in and Kristen talk about how it solved your problem in your personal career Journey so okay my calculus was worst case scenario I'm doing like really lowlevel admin work but it's for the business that we own right so like that is the worst case scenario and the best case scenario is that there are ways in which I can really get involved in a business where I can grow my skill sets and be be valuable to our family to our future um I thought it could be a real unlock for for me and my career and um I was really drawn by the idea you know I was looking for Meaningful work and I think I was sold on ETA because of you know you can really impact people's lives with yeah um owning a business so and that came across from acquiring minds and your reading of the books because that that's a recognition that people my guests often have post facto like once they get in the business they're like oh wow I can impact my employees lives this is lives this is amazing but it wasn't a motivator necessarily even something that they realized going into it yeah no I think definitely from acquiring mind stories like that de box for me um I I hear that a lot from your gu yeah yeah yeah and I think you know sometimes um owning a business or working in a business it's like feels like meaningless work like what is the point but um just that uh flip of the script of the ways in which you can affect people's lives and what it means to have employees and to help people grow their careers I thought that was really appealing I think to answer your question well from my perspective um yeah I think having an impact on people's lives was very important part of the the you know motivation to do this I think um I maybe it was a little bit of resentment and and thinking you know if if if if it was my company I would treat people a certain way right you could say that about any any company but I think um for me it was important to like have a company that people were treated with respect that we really cared about the employees and their growth and their families um and I thought I I saw that as like a huge bonus and and plus for doing this like it's almost like politics in a way like we vote with what we decide to do with our talents and you know for me it was how do I put this like positive energy into the world in the business world and attract awesome people to do awesome things and I think you know that that was really a big motivator actually going into it yeah I'm not I'm not sure that I've had many guests for whom it was so Crystal Clear going in some I'm sure but it sounds like for you guys it was just absolutely abolutely um I mean you just said a clear and and a motivator that's wonderful to hear okay guys well um at 45 minutes in we haven't even gotten to the search but that's okay because I I feel like the most important part of the story is what we've what we've been spending 45 minutes on uh the rest is just numbers and searching no uh no but let's let's get into the Weeds now of the actual search and and business once we decided this was a path we wanted to go down um you know I I started looking at companies locally so um I started networking here in Berkshire County and you know there were some businesses that were that you know at at first glance look look pretty good pretty promising um the issue was like there's not a lot to choose from here and it's extremely limited and the companies that I thought were worth buying the wasn't you know the owner wasn't looking to sell yet um though you know I I felt like I had done a lot of work to at least a Cess was working closer to home buying a company in Berkshire County their surrounding area possible and my you know I think the conclusion I came to was probably not like and I didn't we didn't have the luxury of being able to wait it out for four or five years at least in my mind I hadn't cuz I'd already sort of made that that uh flip in my that switch flip to my head and that's also when I reached out to uh an organization that you've had on here uh that was been mentioned New Majority Capital um and um you know I joined their first cohort and uh through part of that process I really um was hitting kind of the broker Network pretty hard um and you know looking at SIMS every day um looking through a bunch of opportunities and one night right before I was about to go to bed I got an alert on my phone from sege funer that some broker had posted an opportunity for a small uh manufacturer in Massachusetts and I was curious so I called him up at 9:30 at night and he answered and we uh we hit it off and he said hey we should have a call with the seller spoke with the seller the next day and uh we hit it off um and the more I learned about it the more I I liked the opportunity the only problem was that it was 3 hours away um and and so you know we did put an Loi in it was the first Loi uh I I put in on a business and um that was in April early April of 22 and uh we ended up closing about 6 months later at the end of August well three hours is far I mean clearly but it is it's it's also I mean spoiler you did it and we're going to hear about what it's like but the it's a radius that I've heard other guests have as they're kind of in their search or starting their search and then wind back when they when they actually do they go on site to visit a business that's for sale or whatever that's three hours away I think it was actually I think it was Jesse in New Jersey who had a three-hour radius for his criteria and he did it once and he was like this is I can't do this this is too far um it's you know so anyway it's dangerous it's a tempting number because it seems manageable but in fact maybe it's not for most people um so probably not yet but and correct me if I'm wrong but I do want to hear how of course how you're managing that but I guess I guess the question would be for right now in the story yeah how did you get comfortable with that I think obviously we talked about it a lot um and and you obviously will you know share your own thoughts and feelings on it but um I I think uh I think in another life I'm I'm I'm a long PA truck driver um cuz I can me too actually yeah it's a unique person yeah I can drive forever um so it wasn't the driving that that really concerned me I think it was um you know I worked from home for many years and for most of my kids' lives that was their experience me being home yeah um yeah and so it was it was would definitely be a huge change and I think you know I knew I was Secure in our marriage and I I knew that we were both very aligned on what we wanted um so I didn't really have a tremendous amount of concern there I think we've always been able to when things kind of start to feel out of sync we kind of know it and we we talk through it um and I was confident we'd be able to manage through that you know as part of this transition and um I think it was you know the kid and I I told myself I would you know 9 to 12 months will try and you know get someone in there so that I'm not I don't have to be out there every day right so um you know at this point uh I'm I'm there a few nights a week um rarely I I don't think I've been there Monday to Friday in a very long time um and so you know I'm there two three days a week most weeks um which actually gives me the space to you know really work on some of the things I need to be working on without the distractions of somebody coming in to I don't know just shoot the you know what um yeah but I think part of the calculus was also uh we knew what it was like for Gabe to be away yeah that's true um you know we did it in his management consulting years um and just in terms of what we've said about timing having to be right like our kids were good age right like they go to school all day they come home they have insane Sports schedules as much as we knew that they were going to miss gamee and it's valuable to have two parents there we felt like um our weeks go by in a blink of an eye and then he would be home for the weekend it was like good timing in in their lives and so to be clear that the plan was you obviously you're not going to do that commute the day so you'd spend the night there multiple night you spend the week there was what is that what it was Monday morning to Friday night sort of thing yeah I'd say the first couple months more often than not I was there you know Monday to Friday um yeahh and that was the plan yeah it was uh I think strategically I never got like a full-time apartment there uh I didn't want to to sort of feel like I had a second home like I have one home and I you know I think interesting that's clever I get it I intention a different it's a different psychology it was definitely intentional about that um I I think this is a good part to say like part of our strategy was um you know I was going to be here 3 hours away and he was going to be there and some people might say like well then it's impossible for me to be involved in the business right like how is that going to happen it's a small construction company what could there possibly be to do but we were pretty dead set on the fact that it would not work if I was not involved like our happiness would not be there he there's no way he could come home after a week away and you know fill me in on every detail and for me to understand actually what he was going through like the only way for us to survive this what we anticipated was going to be really hard time was if we were in it together like on the daily like a team tackling the problem so but had that had that not been the plan it was the plan but when you're we're talking about 3 hours away you might think that well it wouldn't work like our our plan for me to be involved wouldn't work right because we can't both be 3 hours away like so how are we both going to run a business if I can't be there cuz someone has to be here so and we can talk more about it but it wasn't exactly easy at first to get me involved yeah no I think we had to buy video conference like video cameras for the office you know the women in the office had never done a zoom before and um they were all really open to it and we were lucky they they were right there with us on the mission to make sure I felt involved but uh it would have been easy I think is my point for me to like drop away but we had we knew it was important for me to be involved if it was going to work and we were going to come out the other end I agree with that yeah interesting so so yeah so the three-hour difference made it like in some ways Kristen you could have dropped off or or not found yourself a part of it on the one hand that could have been kind of an easy outcome or on the other hand but but on the other hand the three-hour difference made it that much more important that indeed you be super involved you needed to be that much more involved I think it also you know it was part of the criteria was you know it it if it was going to be something I had to commute to and stay multiple days away from home I sure as heck you know was not going to be working on the weekends um because I I just I knew I needed that family time I I needed to be a dad and um you know so that that was also another reason why I I liked the business among a bunch of other reasons um was that they really typically did not do much weekend at work at all and um so I've I've been able to be dad on the weekends and still coached my kids baseball this spring um yeah and it's been uh it's been good that was a little bit insane but you did do yeah spring was like next level Insanity like I don't know yeah I you know I think the the first few months you know I'm not really involved in my kids fall and winter sports like from a coaching standpoint so I just have to show up to the games on weekends um when you're coaching a team it's a little different uh you got to be there for practices you got to be there for games and uh managing that was way more difficult than I anticipated well I think what it's not just about coaching it was just about sharing up for the kids cuz those are things that you've always done with them and just like following through on that yeah I I hate making a commitment to something and like feeling like I'm I'm falling short um and so it was like it was it was a challenge um but we're through it now what we do is you know the business is a uh really what they do is they are a construction company U primarily and if you ever walk into a restaurant or um if you had the privilege of going to the back of a supermarket you'll see a walk cooler uh or freezer this company um essentially assembles those structures um we don't do Refrigeration we don't do plumbing Electrical uh so there's no licensing involved typically no permits we have to pull um and we do everything from a very small uh walk-in cooler to a huge commercial industrial freezer uh for a distribution center for example um and business had been around 30 years so it was founded in 1990 um the owners who were selling it had been there for seven and uh they were looking to retire it was three owners um a husband a wife and one of their friends and you know the the business had done when they bought it it was doing about a million dollars I think um um you know and I think you know it had it had grown basically about four times that by the time you know they were looking to sell it and um yeah you know so they they were looking to get out I think one of the things that I really liked about it was um a ton of repeat customers there was no real customer concentration um there was wasn't recurring Revenue knew but that didn't really scare me I I saw the repeat customers as as you know I got I got pretty comfortable with that and I think yeah yeah everyone loves recurring Revenue but it felt like a unicorn and any company I came across that had recurring Revenue was asking for way too much money yeah so uh you know I I like the competitive Dynamics um you know this company was really going way back uh uh there was one company in New England that did this back in the 80s and um the owner got I guess he had a few vices and the company went under um and it split into three companies people started their own sort of thermal Contracting companies one of them is right down the street from us um and the second one was about 20 minutes away from us and those were the the two competitors that was really who we were up against on you know 90% of the work we were bidding on um and I thought well all right I like my chances against two other people um you know and I uh thinking about you know the average job size is about $10,000 we did about 400 projects last year um and you know there's there's a real opportunity for us to get into you know uh much larger projects um there there are very big projects I'd say a million dollars and above that you know then you start to see national players come in there's way more competitive it's not nearly the economics just aren't nearly as good um yes like they keep your guys busy which is I I've come to learn is a very important metric is man-hour utilization um uh but there was a sweet spot sort of subm million to kind of where we were today and I saw a tremendous opportunity there I thought there was plenty of business out there that this could easily be you know 10 20 $30 million business um and you know people need to keep things cold that doesn't go away uh they did really well through Co they were an essential business um so there was a lot of things to like about it you know and the owners were great that was a huge part of the the criteria for me was owners that I could I could just be comfortable with knowing they were going to be there for the transition um and maybe Beyond and that there were just good people High character people and I you know the the owners were that they were really just outstanding and I have been super supportive um and you know the business was was doing great for a construction company you know it it was averaging about 35% gross margins um uh sometimes close to 40 and uh it was making plenty of money and you know I think I I just thought it was a great you know the I think the first time I mentioned it to Kristen she was like wait what what do well speaking of which let's make sure we I got it right so it's called refrigerated structures of New England so you build refrigerated structures so you get the panels of these walk-in coolers and as a then then build to spec a cooler that is that is large and sits in the back of a restaurant or a a um like a supermarket uh and so you're kind of a fabricator well you said it's more of a constru really it's a construction business so you bring in supplies so you have suppliers for all the materials and the supplies and then you guys build to spec the the cooler yeah that's exactly right and we also um make cold storage Doors by hand from scratch um and so refrigerator uh cooler and freezer doors um I was I think it was one thing I didn't really appreciate coming in was uh just how important I think doors are it's really kind of a great way to get your foot in in the door with customers um we've got our logo right on the door uh you know it's uh we made about a hundred doors last year I think we're on Pace to probably double that this year um uh but doors you know doors have been been a important part of our business as well um but yeah so that's so so when you make a cooler all the supplies of the co walk-in cooler come from suppliers but then you all will be the manufacturer of the door itself exactly yep and that is a and that has branding on it so it can be it's kind of like the you know the HVAC company that puts their magnet on the side of the HVAC cooler it's like when when they go to need service or they want to do a new one there's your your name yep we also do service we do yeah yeah yeah yeah we do a lot of repairs and service I mean you know uh you think of any uh you know a lot of Paneras McDonald's Duncan you know we've probably done a cold storage door and you know a bunch of those across New England um uh supermarkets you know every Shaw or Star Market or Hanford St lior stores you know we've we've sort of touched probably um so it's uh yeah that that's that's kind of who our current you know Target customer is um what else can I say about it well I think it's interesting just that our competitors have kind of overtime moved away from these smaller jobs they all want the big jobs M um so it's just created this uh opening for us to just you know it's like the bread and butter of our business all of these small jobs and it's tempting to go after the big ones but they are visier and they're more competitive the margins are smaller so um I think if we can really focus here and then just our goal is to just do a few yeah than few big projects year not getting too much over our head especially if the whole this whole segment of the market is just yours for the taking yeah it's a sweet SP yeah I'm reminded and maybe this is a classic pattern in all kind of construction related businesses but I'm reminded of Ben Rizzo's episode Ben bought that distressed elevator servicing business in Pittsburgh and the business was in distress because they had they'd been sitting in a certain segment of the market and then they then they they were contracted to do a big new construction project in Pittsburgh like apparently everybody in Pittsburgh knows this project like a giant project they got a lot of work on that project the project fails so then they're caught holding the bag you know they did work and didn't get paid for it but the the moral of the story is that like they really reached they were hungry to do a bigger project they had this opportunity you know that seems like the natural progression of an ambitious company but understanding those risks and being able to manage cash flow and working with the giant general contractor that was there client and knowing how to negotiate better terms and so on was not something that they knew how to navigate and it bit them hard and it literally almost put them out of business um not saying that that's what would happen here but it it it does feel like there's a pattern there you you're at a certain segment of the market maybe in construction if you want to go bigger that it's not just it's just a lot of risk and complexity to go to the next level up so you got to think hard about whether or not you really want to do that yeah yeah yeah and I think we've seen firsthand how that can happen in our space you know one of our really one of our competitors has um come across Hard Times lately I'll just say um and we've we've benefited from it certainly from a a you know business standpoint but even some of the the people that were looking to to leave um we've taken on so so it gave us you know I didn't really touch on like luck yeah but like there's like a ton of lck like once you get past the like being in the right mindset and having the conviction it's like yeah like we needed some luck too you know I mean um that broker answered the phone well okay but you you picked up the phone at 9:30 Gabe so that wasn't luck give me a better example of luck in your story I think coming into this you know we had a strong competitor that I think we were aspiring to be like right which was this was a company that was basically us just a decade ago and they grew into a 50 million plus dollar company and this you know the owners um ultimately ended up selling out to a private Equity Group and it's been kind of a disaster ever since um and and so you know I think I couldn't have predicted that they were going to you know fumble the ball right and um like that that was a that's a huge Tailwind for us and I think um you know yeah I could have bought this business four years ago and that would not have been the case um and the our other company that's down the street I I learned that they actually sold uh they closed we closed on August 29th they closed that Friday um August 29th I think it was a Tuesday or Wednesday um and so literally two sister companies sold almost within within the same week and so they were also going through transition right so all of a sudden it was kind of us against a you know a a strong large competitor that was kind of hobbling and another competitor that was going through the same transition and I I I again I felt pretty good that you know we could do a a good job through that transition and and um take some market share but like I couldn't predict I couldn't predict were you at all frustrated Gabe that the same business was for sale down the block as opposed to three hours away oh no no no this is down the block from our shop yeah oh oh oh so both three hours away so where where where is it where is the business where is three hours away from Williamstown Lakeville Massachusetts which is in the Southshore kind of equidistant between Boston and Providence and by the way that that competitor didn't sell to a Searcher did it no no um how because I I I have been reached out to I couldn't I couldn't find the my message with the person the DM with the person so forgive me if you're listening who bought a very similar business recently and I said how bizarre and because you know gab and Kristen also blah blah blah and um and he had apparently met with you guys at some point or talked to you guys at some point so is that somebody else or is that indeed this the person who B this I would not be surprised if uh he listens and hears this episode so um well that'd be interesting if he came on my first time were two two guests are competitors a good angle plot thickens the plot thickens the world gets smaller well guys we're we're um approaching time but there's still some important stuff I want to get to I want to hear just some numbers around the business if you could uh I want to hear what the transition we got we got to hear a little bit about what it's been like as operators from from both of your perspectives because your roles in the company are so different um so let's start there can you give me what numbers can you share about the business and the deal yeah so the business was doing about uh a million dollars give or take in uh sde um and that's also something to like about it nice size yeah yeah it was it was the right size but you know I think you know one of the things that comes up on your show quite often is you know do you buy the million-dollar company that has like a full management team in place or you buy a $700,000 you know uh company that that's you know that that has that in place um uh and so I think you know they had the owners were were the owners were running the business like they were running the business like the husband and the friend were were out there selling and the wife was in the office kind of managing the office and everything related to that so um you know I think uh when I when I reflect on the price you know we ended up buying it for uh about uh 4.2x that that SD number um there was I definitely paid a I think a premium in hindsight but there was like a lot of opportunity cost for me in there I thought that if this business were for sale a year from then it probably would sell for something that I couldn't afford right and you know I think that's proving out you know um you know we're we're going to grow probably 17 18% at least that's what we're on target to this year and um you know be A5 plus million dollar company um I think we've got tremendous opportunity in front of us I I believed in the growth story and I I I was willing to uh maybe pay a little more than I could have if I really pushed well and Gabe to be clear you thought it would like if this business sold a year later it would sell for more because it was growing correct in other words correct yeah well and and you know growth costs a premium people the a high multiple is is the price you pay for a growthy a growthy company so while it might feel like a bit of a premium and you know I don't obviously I don't know the all the details of the transaction while it might look and feel like a premium you C you can explain that away by basically this is a growthy company now we You could argue both sides of that that maybe in ETA you don't want a growthy company because you know you want something that's a little bit flatter because we're buying enduring you know enduring profitability and something that grows quickly you worry that it could also come down quickly so so you know one one of these kind of debates that we could go back and forth on but um doesn't seem crazy to me that you had to pay a little extra for a business that was was on a trajectory yeah and and the reason I say that is because you know when we went to the bank you know we we worked with lioke for the SBA loan um I think they had trouble getting to the you know to the the price um are getting comfortable with it so you know uh the sellers ultimately P put in about 12% in you know sellers notes um half of which are on stand full standby um and you know we haven't even talked about Equity but that's a huge part of the story too um but to be clear Live Oak didn't like that it was growthy did they and they didn't like that it was construction yeah I mean and I I have to give a shout out to um to my you know working with my liveo kind of rep but he was just fantastic I mean and he really helped um kind of uper us through the process and like advocate for us internally there um and so you know I think that uh that was huge was was just like having that and I you know I very easily could have had someone who wasn't as effective at that um and you know I think for for us you know the company had its three best years in the last three years yeah you know so yeah there was growth and it seemed at least to me I believed in the sustainability of it um to convince the bank that was you know just took a lot of kind of going back and forth like you know are you comfortable with with these growth assumptions even in a conservative uh case you know this is what it could look like in a few years um but I think just getting them comfortable with believing that the company was was in a new place now it was not that $1 million company that it was 7 years ago but it's a it's a you know growing four plus million doll company um and and that will be stable I think that was it was challenging but I think it took again a lot of like just kind of talking talking it through with with the bank and the younger writers well gab talk talk it through a little bit with us because there there are lots of businesses out there particularly maybe construction where there's been a lot of growth in recent years and this tension of will that growth continue or not is is not only one you if you want the business you have to convince your lender of but you have to convince yourself of so so so I'm aware of time but I think this is important important where how did you convince yourself how did you get over the very doubts that live o was presenting to you and plug your live o guy yeah so I think I think that there's um you know one thing is I I I had a strong background so I had you know f up plenty of experience um in dealing with you know um uh just building teams and and I you know so I I felt very strong in my my background the bank liked my background I was an NBA you know I I had a a good resume I think um talking through the competitive Dynamics and kind of what we talked about and that you know uh these margins are what they are because there's no one else doing it right now right and I think um and for the foreseeable future you know we didn't see that going away right and we could always expand geographically if because we're right now we're just in New England and you think about all the you know Cold Storage that's that's you know from Providence down to New York City or Philadelphia there's a ton of opportunity there um that that's for kind of the future so as a competitive Dynamics my background um uh and I think it was you know the fact that they had no marketing at all whatsoever they uh did very little in terms of having kind of an organized you know sales process um and so I think painting the picture of like I'm able to handle like ushering and leading this business through this transition um we've got like a favorable we got a favorable playing field we've got a lot of repeat customers they like to repeat customers um y you know very little uh concentration so it wasn't like we were going to lose one customer and lose half of our Revenue um and you know it was it was the the Dynamics around related to competition I think um meant we could you know have a pretty healthy healthy margins um on the work that we did so I think combination of those things is what ultimately got them to be comfortable um or untr well just just to emphasize your point on Gross margins it's a really it's a really strong one people should look at the margins uh of businesses they're evaluating and look at them not um look at them also just kind of objectively but also compared to other margins within that industry strong gross margins is a great signal of pricing power which is a great signal of competitive differentiation maybe there aren't aren't many competitors or maybe the company your target company is just out you know it's just a is a standout and out competes the competition but either way it's a very strong signal um but the other thing the other thing just to push here Gabe on construction businesses of course that people get spooked by is their cyclicality um how did you how did you again get comfortable or get liveo comfortable with the fact that like how how many Dunkin Donuts are going to be being are going to be being built here in the next 10 years really sort of thing what what we pointed to was that uh well a you know when the world shut down these guys were open and they you know they really thrived through it I think um yeah when people when the economy is down okay people Hunker out they don't go out right so maybe the restaurants aren't upgrading their coolers and freezers but the supermarkets are expanding their Capac capacity right and the distribution centers for those supermarkets are expanding their capacity when times are really good a lot of restaurants being built a lot of you know upgrades being made on the the restaurant side of the business um and we hadn't even really touched other sort of market segments like life sciences um they had done some grow houses so actually marijuana cultivation facilities use uh our panels um uh that business has slowed down but I think it's you know there was a diversification there there's you know we've got restaurants you've got supermarkets um you've got food processors so you know across the the the spectrum of like the food chain um we were playing in like every little part of it right and each one of those is going to is going to react differently to a recession yeah or really good times and um I think we can smooth out smooth out your own demand yeah that's right and I think we you know yeah there's a lot of new builds going on but you know in our industry there's a lot of activity in the areas you'd expect right like Texas and Florida and the South and um but what what I see up here is we're kind of reached this replacement cycle where some of these supermarkets haven't upgraded their you know their Cold Storage in like 30 years and um that that's a tremendous amount of of our work is upgrading sort of old existing cold storage and um you know using some of the the latest you know technology we have in in insulation now um but that that's a huge part of it as well is like yeah there's the sort of the larger macro picture but then there's just there's just like Demand right if you have a cooler that's falling apart the Health Department's going to come in there and say hey you can't have food in this in this cooler you got to knock this thing down happens all the time we've seen some pretty gross coolers and free yeah I mean I've seen I've seen mushrooms growing out of cooler ceilings so it's a who gross yeah don't don't tell us none of us will want to eat in restaurants again Kristen how is the transition gone for you what what what does life look like for you now yeah I think um in terms of the work it's been best case scenario you know I had a slow transition in just by proximity but I've probably been there uh five times maybe now at this point um whenever I see a window of opportunity to get away I'll go over um to the shop and just those visits and staying super consistent with showing up every day on my computer um I've really gotten my hands dirty in the business I uh the transition I don't know how anyone one single person could pull off a transition um the first days you can spend weeks just changing usernames and passwords and setting up accounts and there's so many Logistics to get through just to like guest started um so in the beginning I was doing all of that and Gabe was just like in it he was going out with the crews um meeting customers uh getting to know the employees um and over time I've just taken over I think like all of the apar um a couple big projects in there like switching our payroll company setting up 401K benefits for everyone they had them before but changing providers and creating our own as a whole thing um and you know Gabe and I spend are spending a lot of time now talking through our uh handbook and I've kind of just become the HR back office uh I'm my my vision of what I'm doing is I'm setting a foundation so whatever we do next if we're growing if we're acquiring a new business you know I've figured it out it will be smoother next time I'm constantly learning and Are You full fulltime so this has turned out to be perfect for me because it's flexible right like Gabe and I are accountable to each other um I'm at my desk every single day some days it's 2 hours some days I I do get 8 hours in but um that schedule works for us because I get to prioritize the kids um yeah and as long as you process payroll as long as I proc yeah that's more important than your kids frankly don't don't sleep on that one well I mean I yes like if I don't process payroll there's 23 people who can't pay their bills so that's a huge responsibility the first time I pushed that button I like couldn't breathe um yeah it's been really fun well like I this has gone better than I could have expected and it's been super fulfilling uh it's been really cool for our family like I know we focused on a lot of the negatives of 3 hours away but in the same way we have uh made a point that we both need to be involved in the business we've done it with the kids so they take ton of ownership and like being business owners and it's really a true family business like Gabe comes home and they know like employee names they know projects we're working on um I don't know it's been just really great for all six of us well guys there's there's more to hear about we don't have time in in the business and you know plans for the business and so on but I gotta start winding us down and let you go but to the point about your family let's close out with a couple questions there first what's it done to your marriage or what is your how is your marriage feel different and then second uh just the big picture the kind of the really the the money picture because I think we you just answered Kristen for us if this is kind of uh emotionally and in in a sense of like purpose given you both a purpose I'm putting your words in your mouth that you you lacked um but on the you know the the money thing and the Building Wealth is is it working so first the marriage question has it changed your marriage and if so how well I think um you know when gab was talking about all those years where he was here you know physically here working from home here but unhappy and that was just like the status quo and there was nothing bad but I think in terms of our marriage it feels different because now we're personally fulfilled I think separately personally fulfilled and so when we come together I think even though we don't see each other uh every day I think it might make our marriage better would you agree yeah no I I think sounds crazy I think a lot of people ask us this question and um it's hard for them to like actually believe me when I say I actually I think things are better than they've ever been um because you know I think so far at least I've been able to balance you know really once when I'm there in Lakeville I am focused on the business this is 100% right and I'm going all out you know sun up to sun down on on that business making sure I'm moving that forward and when I'm when I'm here you know that's that's my family time right and outside yeah I I do have some stuff that I do um here at home that's important um but I just being able to like separate those two things and compartmentalize those things like physically cuz I'm not physically here has in some ways just made this transition sort of uh feasible in many ways because if if I was like in the family every day with the business you know and having to manage those two things and take kids to play dates and other things and who knows what what else like that might be too muchh um so it's worked out and I think um like I said you know we we do make a point to you know going on date nights and um making sure we're staying staying in touch and in syn yeah and we really we don't think it's forever I think we've said that um we have a yeah plan to get G home more forgive me to compare it to revenue there's quality of Revenue as listeners know there's you know not every thousand doll that of Reven that comes into the business is are created equal similarly there's quality of time and so Gabe being in a bad head space even if you were getting more time with him it was low quality time but to put it bluntly because he was in a bad head space and I think in any couple any any any couple or any relationship really if one party is unhappy that's going to spill over of course into the relationship uh I mean I've seen it in my own life for sure so um you know I'm you know I'm I'm happier doing what I'm doing now that I've been in a very long time and my wife will is the beneficiary of that she'll she'll she you know that so so that that's very logical I think that makes sense the other thing just to say about the three-hour separation of church and state there I I mean I used to be a big believer of that because I've I've mostly kind of had jobs that I can do from anywhere or work that I can do from anywhere and um I I I remember I was such an advocate of just keeping those two things separate but over time it's just it's just so easy easy to start working from home if you have a job that allows that and then of course Co did that for the whole all of civilization for people who can work from home they now are part of the week um and you know we liked the flexibility but now we also realize that there's a lot of unhealthiness to that and keeping a nice Stark line between professional life and personal life is very appealing I I get the appeal of that and how that that's that's almost more functional um rather than less okay and so how do we feel about so so you bought a business with a million SD now obviously there's loans there we didn't even get too really into the terms of the deal very much you did give us some details there Gabe we're not going to get into that now but just uh and you're growing it um I assume you have also you have plans to grow it even more over the next five and 10 years but distill it for us how do you feel like it addresses the balance sheet of the family and the future of the family and the millions of dollars maybe literally of college fees you got around the corner Etc so you know we're able to pay ourselves enough that we're fine right now you know and I think um that that that was just like Baseline we needed to make sure we could pay our bills right I think right we are I think still trying to get comfortable with like when it's it's okay to start taking money uh out of the business you know and I think we're we're still the company is still performing very well right and I'll just say that like um you know of course life would be very different if uh you know that that huge chunk of money wasn't going out to uh live o every month but um it's performing well enough that we could still make a decision at the end of the year like do we want to reinvest in the business or do we want to take some of this money out and I think um that's the decision we'll have to make at some point I do feel like you know if if if the company is where I wanted to be in five years then I think that um the answer to that question will like unequivocally be yes like this this was exactly what we expected and completely lifechanging and completely life changing right and I think um I think it's what number is that Gabe in 5 years where do you want to see it I'm happy with us getting to you know 1520 million and what SD what translate that to SD for us uh so that would then uh you're talking about uh I mean four times yeah to4 million well hell yeah that'd be pretty nice that'd be great that'd be a wonderful outcome and it and just to touch on it you feel like that's pretty realistic you've already kind of talked about the markets that you're not in and you could see going into the geographies that you're not in that you could see going into that all that all feels therefore feels like you could get to 15 to 20 million in Revenue it's definitely feasible um I have really sold that Vision to some of the kind of important people we've been able to bring on to help get us to that next level um and I think that one important thing to say is you know we talked about like changing people's lives right and that that is still a huge part of what of why we're doing this and you know we've put in um essentially a profit share program and so the better we do as a company the better everyone does in our company right and I want it to be that way um and so yeah talking about is it good for us but it's also it's good for everyone that trusts their lives and careers their their well-being with us right everyone we want to make sure that that folks feel rewarded um and that's a great place to work so I forgot to mention earlier that I I meant to give a shout out to Eric rabinovich over at live o sorry I I forgot to mention his name earlier noted There You Go Eric thank you for doing that thank you Eric all right Gabe and Kristen anything that we didn't hit on plot Point theme that you want to convey we covered a lot of territory here but um there's a lot to your story so anything that wasn't said I think we covered everything I just hope that people who listen to the story know that it's something that can be done it can feel daunting going down this path it can feel crazy um but it's super rewarding it's possible and I think it can be lifechanging yeah I think it's taken me 43 years to figure out what I was supposed to do with my life and uh I guess the one thing is you know we know we know what it's like like facing you know all the the cost and expenses of things coming down the road and and raising children and you know having a happy marriage um you know we we we've dealt with with all those things and we still continue to deal with them and um but I think you know being in sync and knowing that we're we want the same thing in life for us and for our kids is maybe the the single most important thing thing in all of this because we couldn't do it without each other um and I you know I can't like overstate that I mean um our relationship has been um I think just like the foundation uh that's allowed us to build this life and um it's super important you know and I know we we we said that but I think really hammering at home and and knowing that it's okay to feel like you don't know what you're doing with your life but as long as you keep moving towards you know that direction whatever it is um towards U improving your life um you'll find it eventually well said Gabe and a beautiful not and a beautiful note to end on Gabe and Kristen if people want to reach out for marriage counseling or other questions about your deal uh how do you prefer they do that do you like email do you like LinkedIn do you like something else uh you can find me on LinkedIn um and Kristen as well yeah I prefer email I noticed Kristen that you you've added a photo on LinkedIn I added a photo well I'm really working on that LinkedIn profile you were one of my first friends I call them I'm building it out though my LinkedIn page is up and coming great you can get us Kristen rsov ne.com and Gabe rsov ne.com and just to say the name of the company again RS ofne is refrigerated structures of New England RS of.com name of the business gab and Kristen what a cool story thank you guys for coming on and uh now you will be part of the inspiration for others who come after you so congratulations to you both for figuring it out for taking an unconventional path uh having the you know the Huts spah en Vision to do that you guys really deserve all the credit for the good things that are happening to you so thanks for coming on I appreciate that well thanks to you again well I hope you enjoyed that interview make sure you subscribe to the acquiring minds Channel below we are now publishing twice a week so tons of new interviews and stories to come stories that will help you along your own path to acquiring a business