Welcome to Postmortem. I'm 48 hours correspondent Ann Marie Green and today we're discussing the murder of Harold Allen in Freetown, Indiana. Now, in December of 2022, Harold was poisoned with a root beer float made by his wife Marca Allen and Marsha's adult daughter Ashley Jones. His death was originally determined to be from natural causes, but then after a burglary at Marsha's home nine months later, police discovered a string of damning text messages between Marsha and Ashley that prompted then to investigate Harold's death as a possible murder. So, Peter Vans is joining us. He was the correspondent on that hour. Peter, thanks again for joining us. >> Hey, great to be here and Marie. And folks, you heard it right. Murder by root beer float. >> Mhm. And the maliciousness of this case really struck me. Marca and Ashley attempted to kill Harold multiple times during a three-month period leading up to his death with a variety of exotic poisons. And something we didn't share in the hour. Investigators said that there was evidence that Ashley was plotting other murders. >> Okay, so we definitely are going to get into that. Um, but first a quick reminder for everyone. If you haven't watched or listened to this episode, the root beer float murder, go check it out right now and then come back for this conversation. All right, Peter, getting into it. There are a lot of really strange elements in this case and one that really stands out right away is Harold Allen's original autopsy. It concludes that that his death was caused by cardiac issues. The coroner did not screen for poisons in his blood. Why wasn't his blood screened? Well, Harold had a history of genuine health issues and also remember he'd been to the emergency room a couple of times when these attempted poisonings didn't work out. So, his death was not considered suspicious. And routine autopsies, they don't screen for poison because there's simply not enough hours in the day to screen for every poison out there unless there's a specific reason to do so. And they didn't have one in this case. Routine autopsies do involve a toxicology screening that looks for things like alcohol and medication overdoses and Herald had been on prescription meds and they were found at therapeutic levels. Now, every state has different laws about keeping blood and tissue samples postmortem. In Indiana, they hold on to samples for a year. So, when suspicion was finally raised in Harold's case, they could still send that out for testing. >> Yeah, that was really for Trudis. I did not know that they held on to samples that long, especially when initially there doesn't seem to be a suspicious death. Um, the case really reminded me though of another poisoning case that's getting a lot of attention, the Corey Richens case. Uh, she was a Utah author and mother who in 2026 uh was found guilty of murdering her husband with a fentinel laced Moscow mule. Also a pretty sweet drink, I think. Um, like Richens, Marsha wrote a book about grief after Harold's death. Did you read the book? >> I did. And it's not going to make a bestseller list, but the name of the book was From Surviving to Thriving, Rebuilding Your Life after the loss of a spouse. And she self-published this book about 6 months after Harold died. It has just 29 pages. Some of it reads like Hallmark card stuff. And yet, as we as we know it, it ends up being a bunch of hoie. Investigators believe that she wanted people to feel sorry for her or she wanted to convince others that she was mourning for Harold when she knew she had inflicted all this pain and torment on this man and yet was trying to cover that horrible deed with this book. >> So then over 9 months after Harold's death, Marsha's home security system alerted her to a burglary while she was away on vacation. When she reviewed the video, she could see two men opening her home safe and then rifling through her bedroom and looking for jewelry. Marca immediately identifies one of the burglars captured on this camera. It's her daughter Ashley's best friend. His name is Steven White. She reports this burglary to police. But I got to wonder, why would she do that? She knows that she's involved in this other crime. You would think the last thing she would want to do is bring authorities to her house. >> Absolutely. Especially since she she knows she had committed a murder. Were it not for Marsha's vindictive nature of reporting a burglary that she knew her own daughter was responsible for, both she and Ashley would likely be free today. And Ashley was the only other person who knew the combination to the safe. So Marsha knew Ashley was behind this burglary and Harold, he had a life insurance policy of $120,000. Marsha had been paying Ashley about $1,000 each month since Harold died, but had stopped making those payments 2 months before the burglary. So she Ashley was upset with her mother because she felt she wasn't getting enough money. When police spoke to Steven White, he's one of the guys, one of the burglars seen on that tape, he told them that Marsha killed her husband by poisoning a root beer float. And that's when investigators decided they needed at least to ask Marsha about Harold's death. >> So Marsha returns from vacation. She goes to the sheriff's office to discuss, she thinks she's going to be discussing this burglary. But then investigators also raise the accusation that Steven made about her killing her husband Harold. And they ask to download the contents of her cell phone. And she agrees. But then when the detective leaves, she starts frantically deleting text messages. Right. It's like people don't watch 48 hours, Peter, because they would know you. I mean, you can never delete a message. >> Yeah. I know everyone watching and listening to this uh who watches 48, they all know there is digital evidence out there and you can't just erase it. So nearly 7,000 texts were exchanged between Marsha and Ashley in the months leading up to Harold's death and they were easily recovered, right? She thought she deleted them, but she hadn't. Marcia even told investigators that all she deleted from her phone were some photos and this is what she said. Just want to make sure you don't see me in my underwear. M. So she she was suggesting there were some risque photos on there that she didn't want investigation. >> That's what she was deleting when in fact what she was deleting were these incriminating text messages. And investigators say those texts revealed Marsha and Ashley had tried to kill Harold over and over again with a variety of exotic poisons including a lot of this I hadn't heard of before but pong seeds which can cause cardiac arrest. water hemlock which attacks the nervous system and can cause grand mall seizures and ethylene glycol which affects the the nervous system. That's that chemical that goes into antifreeze. We didn't include this in the hour, but there is one exchange where Marsha texts Ashley. This is what Marcia said to Ashley. His exact words, I am feeling a lot better since drinking Gatorade. Now, this is bad news, right, to the two women because they're trying to kill him. Ashley replies to her mother, "Well, we need to reorder." >> And Marca texts WTF, "What the you know what, >> they were so determined to finish this job. They weren't going to be stopped and they carried on until they killed him." >> So, when I heard Pong Pong Seeds, I immediately thought of um the TV show The White Lotus on HBO. In the third season, there's a character that nearly dies after accidentally drinking pong pong seeds in a protein shake. But my question that I kept on asking myself, how on earth was it possible that Marca and Ashley could buy these exotic poisons online? You would think there would be some sort of restriction on that. >> The poisons they purchased are not illegal. They have legitimate uses. Pong pong seeds and water hemlock are used in gardens and ethylene glycol is a component in antifreeze and can be used as a solvent. What's interesting too, a quick aside, is that each of these have a unique taste or a smell to them. Some are sweet and that's why if you mix it with something like a root beer float, you have no idea that you're drinking this adapze chemical. So, investigators believe that the motive here for Marsha and Ashley was money. And I'm always surprised at the amount of money that motivates people to murder. $120,000 life insurance policy, it's not a little bit of money, but to kill someone, come on. Everyone you spoke to said that he was a great guy. He had a big heart. He welcomes like Marsha and Ashley and their entire like the family into his family. To me, they had it good. >> Yeah. I mean, his nickname is Peanut. I mean, a guy nicknamed Peanut, you know, is a good guy. >> It's It's really It's just so tragic. >> So, was it really about money? Well, look, investigators believe that these two uh were evil personified and um there was a conversation going on in those texts about that money. But Lieutenant Nicholson, an investigator with the Jackson County Sheriff's Department, told us that Marcia and Ashley believed something else, something this that could have been another motive for murder. that there was a demon living inside Harold and they needed to kill him so this demon could be released. They thought that the demon inside of Harold was going to escape and attach to other people living in the house. No one we spoke with could tell us whether Marcia and Ashley genuinely believed that Harold was a demon or if it was just a way of amusing themselves as they plotted a real murder. >> And the prosecutor, Lindsey Fleetwood, believes that money, not evil spirits, was driving their motivation. >> I'm with the prosecutor, Peter. I call BS on that. In fact, when uh when when you were talking about it, I thought this seems like another attempt to distract and cover their bases. So, as the investigation unfolds, uh it's October 16th, 2023. Investigators serve Marsha with a search warrant for her home and she voluntarily returns to the sheriff's department and she's questioned. But then, even after investigators confronted her about the text messages, she continues to to, you know, say that she had nothing to do with Harold's death. and then she's allowed to return home. I was kind of surprised. Why did they let her go? >> You know, I've had the exact same reaction you just had. I'm going, "What? You let them go?" But it was a strategic choice. And as you know, Anmarie, authorities need to reach a certain threshold of evidence in order to make an arrest, and they wanted to build out a strong case first. So Marsha was warned by detectives that they were sending the blood out for testing and expected the results to show that Harold was poisoned. Welcome back. So the same day that Marsha returned home from questioning at the police station, Ashley, who'd been living in Missouri, was extradited back to Indiana on that burglary charge. uh we see footage of her uh interview with investigators and as soon as they confront her about Harold's murder, she seems to turn on her mother as she tells them the whole thing was Marsha's idea that uh she was just being an obedient daughter. I have to say, you know, Marsha and Ashley seemed really close when they were applauding Harold's murder. I mean, thousands of text messages between them. I was really surprised that Ashley was so quick to point the finger at her mother. it and it's chilling in a way too. It is that that flatline emotion. >> No matter what they're she's told, she just doesn't react as you would expect uh a normal person would react like any of us would react. >> It was just very casual. >> Yeah. And um it just goes back to the heartless nature of these two people. >> Right. Which brings me to this something you brought up earlier in this podcast. Police discover that there's evidence that Ashley had actually been plotting more murders after Harold died. What do what do we know about that? >> We didn't have time to include this in the hour, but police discovered that Ashley was plotting to kill several other people while she was in custody. She stayed at the local jail in Indiana for several months and she had a bunky, as they call it, a cellmate friend who was going to be released soon. They became close and as they approached Bunkkey's release date, Ashley gave her what police called a kill list with names of people she wanted assassinated. Now, there were several names on the list, all people she had some relationship with while she and Marca were plotting this murder. It included her best friend, Steven White. Remember the one of the burglars, >> right? No surprise. That started this whole investigation. >> But also, Steven White's mother was on the list. The cellmate went to authorities and agreed to wear a concealed recording device in her cell. She drew Ashley out in conversation about this kill list. And the detectives interviewed the cellmate right after. And let's listen to a portion of that interview where the cellmate is talking about her reaction to Ashley approaching her with this kill list. >> She said, "We're going to win this game of chess." And she's, you know, >> since she was seven, her mom has trained her, you know, that's up. >> What was she talking about? >> Her eyes, I mean, you'll hear me saying you're shark eyed peoples, man. They go big when she starts talking about killing people and then they go pinned up and then they go big and she just I mean up. >> She basically is saying that they're going to win this game of chess. And apparently this game, this poisonous game, uh, still had some moves to to to be made. And among them was this desire to to create even more victims. >> I mean, was Ashley ever charged for that? >> Uh, no, she wasn't. I asked the prosecutor about it and she said Ashley is not currently being charged for anything to do with that kill list for certain legal reasons, but that investigators did take it seriously and they followed through with their investigation on it. >> Let's go back to Harold's case now. Um there is a shocking turn of events. Uh hours after Marsha returns home from questioning on October 16th, 2023, police were dispatched to the house for a welfare check and they discover that she has died by suicide. >> I asked Lieutenant Nicholson about um Marsha's suicide. And he said, "I think she didn't want to have to spend the rest of her life in prison. Um you know, I told her that we were going to send the blood off. I think she she just didn't want to stick around and wait and find out what those results were when she knew what the results were. >> She leaves a note and it reads, "I did not kill my husband. You win, Ashley." So, the prosecutor said in the hour that she believed that the message was Marsha's way of trying to get out of the fact that she killed her husband. I guess for I guess even in death, she didn't want people to think that she was a murderer. But what do you make of it? >> We talked about this a lot as a team and based on all of our interviews and research, we believe there there is another layer that the note reads like a mother trying to implicate the daughter she supposedly loved. >> So indeed, when the toxicology report on Harold's blood comes back, it it is confirmed that uh ethylene glycol was in his system. And there were text messages from before Harold died that actually discussed preparing this these root beer floats which would mask the sweet taste of the ethylene. Now here's the question. Who is the mastermind behind this plot? Both women benefited. Both women are pointing the finger at each other. Who do prosecutors believe was really behind this? I asked the lead prosecutor about this uh and she said she doesn't believe we'll ever know who pushed harder to murder Harold. They were both so enthusiastic, both will so willing to discuss strategy of what kind of foods and beverages we can put this into. Um the prosecutor points out that that Marsha was married to him. She was the one that laid beside him at night and she was the one who ultimately put the poison in the root beer that killed him. But she also said that Ashley was uh on her side, constantly in her ear, helping her every step of the way, encouraging her mother every step of the way, being a facilitator for her mother. Um, at the end of the day, after we sorted through all of it, this was really a team effort, and I think they both shared um equal responsibility for this this brutal murder. So, in August of 2025, Ashley took a plea deal, pleading guilty to attempted murder and conspiracy to commit murder. I was sort of surprised. She was sentenced to 50 years in prison. That's not the best deal on her end. But we have to talk about Ashley's late husband, Ty Jones. He died in 2019. He was just 33 years old. The autopsy listed his death is related to heart issues, which is kind of surprising for a 33year-old. Tai's family went to the police as soon as they saw Harold's case on the local news. They raised their suspicions that Ashley really may have had something to do with Tai's death as well. Do police believe that they have evidence tying Ashley to Tai's possible murder? >> Well, it is an ongoing investigation and we're not told uh all the evidence that authorities have. Ashley maintains that Tai died of a heart attack and has not been charged. According to Tai's family, Ashley didn't shed any tears during Tai's funeral service and the next day she shows up at Tai's place of employment asking about his life insurance policy. Uh, no one reported his death as suspicious at at that time and heart attacks can happen to otherwise healthy people. Um and then he was cremated shortly after his death uh at Ashley's Ashley's urging to have him cremated. The suspicion also came into play well after his tissue and blood samples would have been disposed of. So there was nothing to go back, no tissue, no blood to be able to examine to see if there were poisons in there. We do know there's one text exchange between Ashley and Marsha after Marsha complained that the pong pong seeds were failing to kill Harold. Ashley texted that Tai had weighed much less than Harold, writing, "And previously Tai was only 120, lol." H >> during our interview, Tai's uncle, William Jones, and cousin, Aretta Styver, heard about that text for the very first time, and we want to play a clip from the moment that they learned this information. >> There it is. There it is right there. >> It's painful to hear. Yeah, it is >> because it's one thing to suspect and to feel like you know, but to have that kind of evidence presented verbally for the first time is gut-wrenching. >> It means what you have suspected all along is true >> all the time. All the time. >> And that suspicion is is that uh Tai was poisoned. Both of them cried. There was a sense of relief to get this news. It was really profound for them. And for me, sitting across from them, it closed a circle of pain and injustice. When you heard that sound, you know, it's like, "Yes, >> we've got it. We've got it." >> Slam on the table. Yes. >> And it was an incredible moment, not just for me, but for all the crew uh to break that news to them and sit across from them. >> It must have meant so much for them to understand that indeed they might be on the right track and, you know, push push more. >> Absolutely. And we'll see where this goes. I mean, it is still under investigation. >> We will reiterate that Ashley says that her husband Tai died of natural causes. Um, Peter, another great hour. Thank you so much for joining us today. >> Hey, thank you and Marie. >> So, if you like this episode, please rate and review on Apple Podcast or Spotify.