you okay the participants will begin shortly foreign you good afternoon everybody welcome back to the third and the last session of the day it gives me immense pleasure to welcome our speaker for this session mr amrit lal bharatwaj before we begin participants please note the session will be for one hour followed by q a for half an hour please post your questions in the chat box and keep your video on throughout the session videos for all the session will be available on jucms youtube channel the link for the same is posted in the chat box over to professor varalakshmi bharadwaj practiced as an accountant come auditor from 1980 to 2003. after that he adjoined academia for the past 14 years he has taught accountancy and finance to postgraduate and final year undergraduates at cardiff business school cardiff university in parliament for the last six years he has been visiting lecturer at jane dean to be university bangalore and last three years at zangman university of economics and law gohan he is also a great mentor at alicrazy foundation wales uk which helps to launch the tech startups he is a chartered certified accountant a fellow of higher education academy and holds a triple accredited mba from an open university after a covet panamic is over he intends to work and travel in various countries as a freelance lecturer with immense order and honor and respect i welcome mr amrit lal bharadwaj to address the participants and the attendees sir will be sharing his insights on the topic strategies to enhance employability skills for graduates over to you sir and thanks for waiting for such a long time you were quite ahead or you were present even before rasa thank you so much i'm sorry for keeping you waiting namaste good afternoon to you all it's 9 30 a.m in the morning here so there we go now i'd like to i don't want to share my screen with you so how do i how do we do this i do not want to share the screen with you you'll be able to see me and i'll do the talk okay that's great now i'm just going to go on to my word documents if i may right my talk is going to be about strategies to enhance employability skills of our graduates distinguished guests ladies and gentlemen good afternoon to you all again i'd like to thank jane university for inviting me to speak at this forum i've solely missed not having been able to make the annual wizard in person to jane university's business school on account of the pandemic the next best thing under the circumstances is to be with you online so here i am before i begin may i request that you ask me questions at the end of my talk chances are that i will have answered them during the course of my talk anyway if i haven't done so then please wait till i invite you to ask questions at the end right i'm going to talk about enhancing employability skills of our graduates i will the main talk about how we achieve this in the united kingdom the same practice has been adopted in europe as a broad framework resulting from the bologna process i will quickly run through the bologna process this was a process that was launched way back in 1999 by the education ministers of 29 european countries in an attempt to bring coherence to higher education systems across the continent and over over the years the number of states who have now joined up to the bologna process has grown to 47 so it extends far beyond the current eu eu borders so what is the bologna process it's a framework to allow easy comparison between higher education systems of all participating countries it covers quality insurance so that students graduates universities and all of the stakeholders can be confident in the quality of different systems and the work of different providers now i think this could equally equally be applicable in the indian context if it isn't already um please enlighten me i don't know if we have signed up to this process however let me begin i will define the problem and suggest solutions to the result but to solve it by the way these are my personal views and observations which have been born out of my personal experiences as an account income auditor firstly in commercial industry secondly as a practitioner in private practice and finally as a result of the past 14 years in academia please take on board that i am that what i'm about to say and discuss are my personal points of view and mine alone my talk is set against the backdrop of several years of personal teaching experience and a growing swell of clamour between academics and employers in europe and other countries around the world now it's becoming increasingly apparent that universities are turning out graduates who are not fit for purpose meaning lacking in employability skills or who are not office ready this in turn encompass employees to incur time and huge expense in retraining the graduates to bring them up to speed to do their jobs effectively so this seems to be a serious disconnect between what the economy needs and what the universities turn out this is perhaps because there has been a breakdown in communications between the employers between what the employers want to see in graduates and what the universities think employers would want to see in graduates the two are completely different perspectives and that's the problem now as we move towards knowledge-based economies the student numbers have gone up worldwide almost expansion exponentially this has increased student diversity resulting in a variety of issues that need to be addressed so let's look at what has been happening in recent times and what is being done to address the problem problem what problem is there a problem that needs to be addressed the answer is an emphatic yes what exactly is the problem well employers have consistently complained about the poor quality of graduates meaning what well employers say they're not up to the required standard expected of a university graduate standard what standard what is the standard required of a university graduate well the standard of graduates required can be broadly explained in terms of graduate attributes of graduate outcomes graduate attributes of graduate outcomes what are they graduate outcomes are outcomes of the total university experience they include creativity problem solving professional skills communication skills or soft skills teamwork and lifelong learning all within the context of the particular degree a student is studying for let's go into more detail graduate attributes can be generic or embedded the generic view of graduate attributes is that graduates will be creative or think critically whatever the content they were dealing with hence generic attributes are context free qualities as if graduates will be creative whatever they do on the other hand embedded attributes or abilities abilities are ways of handling issues that are context dependent so that creativity is only intended to apply in a graduate's content area so why have universities failed to imbue or inculcate these qualities well this is because universities have followed a teacher-led curriculum simply listing topics that a teacher needs to cover in comparison an outcomes based curriculum states what students will be able to do after teaching and how well that they are to do it that is it is benchmarked does the attributes help the design of degrees and modules the emphasis therefore is not on what topics to teach but what outcomes students are supposed to have achieved after having been taught now such constructive alignment the intended learning outcomes are defined and assessments are criteria referenced to evaluate how well the outcomes have been achieved so teaching and learning activities too are also aligned to the outcomes to enable students to achieve those outcomes more effectively so in a nutshell therefore courses are designed with clear learning outcomes which are aligned to the expectations of employers thus universities will teach what employees want them to teach then they're on the same page this will solve the problem of universities being disconnected with the expectations of employers however that is part of the problem learning at leaving outcome-based teaching and learning aside i want to spend some time to discuss issues relating to the question of maintaining standards given the range of the ability of students a common problem referred to as robert and susan problem now i'm quoting from a book uh teaching for quality at university fourth edition by john biggs and katherine tyne so let's discuss susan first now could i please share my screen with you and show you a couple of diagrams so you can share sir okay here is the first diagram and could you tell me if you can see it can you see that no sir how do i get you to so i have to shoot my screen sir she's share screen option is down below so in the ribbon share screen option a green one an arrow upward arrow yeah okay right and then share screen as there we go and that's what i want to share you should be able to see it now no sir not able to see it oh thank you there we go can you see it now yes sir yes okay i'm just gonna pop that to a side now here is the problem of susan and robert taken again from this book by the way so give credit where credit is due now effective teaching and learning for today's universities and this stage at the bottom student orientation teaching method and the level of engagement now we have the robert here and the academic susan there trouble is robert isn't very academic whereas susan is robert just takes a memorize a few facts and takes a few notes and stops he is a passive audience it's just this in a standard lecture problem is learning not really whereas academic susan covers all these qualities so there's a big gap between high level of engagement and low level of engagement and this gap is to be filled with learning activities which are needed to uh needed to achieve the intended learning outcomes i'm going to go back to my i'm going to stop this how do i stop the screen share sorry bear with me ever have i stopped sharing yes sir you've stopped sharing some okay so i should have gone to the diagram subsequently i made a mistake i should have discussed the problem first okay i do apologize let's discuss susan first now susan is academically committed she is bright interested in her studies and wants to do well she has a clear academic or career path and what she learns is important to her when she learns she goes about it in an academic way she comes to the lecture with his sound relevant background knowledge possibly with some questions she wants answering in the lecture she finds an answer to a perform question now here's the this is what's important it forms the keystone for a particular arch of knowledge she is constructing or it may not be the answer she's looking for and she speculates wondering why it isn't in either event she reflects on the personal significance of what she's learning now students like susan virtually teach themselves they do not need much help from us lecturers now academics like susan's were indeed like susans and susans themselves so they tend to assume that she represents how most students learn and so teach them accordingly that is a fatal flaw that is a fatal flaw this is where we're going wrong now let's consider robert he is at university not on a driving curiosity about a particular subject or a burning ambition to excellent in a particular profession but to obtain a qualification to procure a decent job a few years ago students like him would have never considered going to university he is less committed than susan possibly not as bright academically speaking he has little background of the relevant knowledge it comes to lectures with no or few questions he wants only to put in sufficient effort to pass the exams and to be able to earn his bread and butter now here is the important point this is really important robert hears the lectures same words as susan is hearing but it doesn't see the keystone but just another brick to be recorded in his lecture notes he believes that if he can record enough of these bricks and can remember them he will be able to pass his examinations students like robert are in the higher proportion in today's classes regrettably they need help if they are to reach acceptable levels of achievement and in turn meaningful and gainful employment now to say robert is unmotivated may be true but it is unhelpful all it means is that he is not responding to the matters that work for susan the likes of whom was sufficiently visible in most classes in the good old days to satisfy us that teaching did work but of course it was the students who were doing the work and getting the results not our teaching so the challenge for us as lecturers is to teach so that robert learns more like susan so i'm going to go back to the diagram again if i may i need to share my screen share screen yes sir the same procedure and i have lost it share screen option at the below ribbon the green upward arrow you have done that yeah share screen yes sir i can't see but i can't see my screen sorry i do apologize so if we close the other tabs which are open and which is relevant oh here we are yeah are we can you see my screen now no sir okay wait is wait a second there we go sorry so i'm back to the diagram i should have now that you've got a better understanding of the non-academic robot and the academic susan robert is a passive learner just want to do the absolute minimum so his level of achievement is that whereas susan is academic and she's she works to the right of the curve as an active learner now what we need to do is between this dotted line and that bottom line we need to create learning activities to pull robert up by the bootstraps and bring him up to the level of susan to achieve the intended learning outcomes now i'm going to share one more diagram with you which is this one go back to share regime champ where is okay here we go now i'm just gonna this this this diagram again is reproduced in the book and i had a in subsequent pages it says the desired and actual level of engagement approaches to learning and enhancing teaching now i take it you don't see this page 29 yes sir okay now you have robert here who starts to memorize goes there and stops susan carries on from there right up to there and she reflects on what she's doing so susan acquires deep learning whereas robert requires surface learning and the challenge for us lecturers is to supply activities to support these missing activities and we need to discourage that kind of learning that's the problem so okay i'm going to get back come out of this stop share and go back oh goodness man close this close this right you should only be able to see me now and not my screen yes sir am i right okay good so having shown you the two diagrams now if i may carry on with the susan and robert problem now bearing in mind that there are susan's and roberts in the lecture hall we need to design learning activities that would close the gap between them enabling them to achieve output-based learning outcomes and develop and form graduate attributes stroke outcomes to close the gap between susan and robert we need to design learning activities obviously defining learning outcomes and learning activities will depend on a particular degree uh subject has been studies now i will use accountancy as an example this methodology can be replicated to teach other subjects disciplines particularly if they have a practical application so let's take students studying for the acca qualification which i've been closely involved with say i'm teaching financial and management accounting taxation and ordering exams my immortus apprentice is by the way i was given a free hand design deliver and assist modules now i have tried it over the past few years i haven't perfected it i have improved it as a reflective practitioner and i am getting there with increasingly outstanding results if even if i say so myself sorry but it's true first and foremost place students at the heart of learning it has to be student-centered learning in what way is my methodology different what i do is i give students a helicopter view of the topic a skeletal overview and i get them to flash in the details from a core textbook a core textbook so for example um there is here is the acc course menu revision and practice kits now these are published by bpp university valid for both papers computer exams they're for example september december march 20 and june 20. and you have free access to ebook and additional digital content i will come back to that this includes everything so i get them to work through access mass examination papers under exam conditions and compare the answers with suggested answers from the acca get students to a level of exam readiness so that they are familiar with exam technique and they are not strangers to exam style questions to ensure benchmarking to a world-class qualification that is the key so they work through the workbook and the practice of the revision kit under their own steam so you get them to critically evaluate also in addition i get them to evaluate annual reports of publicly quartered companies on stock markets from around the world plc's for example jaguar land rover rolls royce martin spencer's toyota mainly multinationals which brings together these different strands of learning into a solid body of knowledge and thus progress towards the apex of the learning pyramid and clearly connecting theory to practice they must be able to connect what they're learning to what's happening out in the big world because the employers are in the big world now i teach them i also in addition teach them accounting texts and auditing software so that they hit the ground running when they joined the big audit firms such as the pc pwcs of the world or even if they went to work for for small to medium-sized firms or smes so let's get back to the problem why have we turned our poor quality graduates now my opinion the worst thing that we lecturers have done the past few years is use microsoft powerpoint in doing so we have spoiled our students rotten is entirely our fault students now expect lecturer the lecturer to read the topics out of a textbook summarize them in 15 to 20 powerpoint slides in compliance with the wishes of the student the lecturer gives the powerpoint handouts students particularly robots scribble a few notes on them during lectures only those who are paying attention and not playing with their iphones is mainly susan's not paying any intention roberts don't bother looking at the handle again until the exam time near the exam time roberts wonder what the topic was all about result students achieve superficial knowledge as a result of surface learning and so produce hazy exam answers i often lose the will to live by the time i get to the fifth exam on subscript the overall result at the end of the three-year degree is that our graduates leave university with half-baked ideas and knowledge which is frankly more dangerous than ignorance i don't wonder why employers are so disappointed with the quality of our graduates i also speak out of experience as an employer of university graduates with degrees in accountancy and finance who cannot prepare a simple set of accounts using principles of double-entry bookkeeping and that after three years at a business school their recall of basic concepts is woefully poor this problem of surface learning is further aggravated by open textbook assignments and rampant plagiarism and dissertation mills where dissertations are churned out anonymously by experts for a fee so what's the solution if you ask me if you ask me it's quite simple bring back the core textbook and out with the powerpoint presentation handouts now i'm a group i'm now a part of a growing number of like-minded lecturers and professors advocating this we're a small group we're getting bigger by the day so having given the students the basic nuts and bolts of the topic during the lecture get them to read the topic in detail from the assigned core textbook and then to test their understanding of the topic get them to attend attempt the questions at the end of the chapter continuous assessment will be the order of the day but this will be self-assessment getting students who take full ownership of their learning not the lecture of playing money and spoon feeding them this encourages self-reflection and students they learn to be honest with themselves i often ask my students can you look at yourself in the mirror look yourself in the eye and ask yourself have i really thoroughly understood the topic under discussion and if you cannot be honest with yourself you cannot be expected to be honest with anyone and there is no hope for you buddy so students will be required to work through the core textbook throughout the academic year and appear for an examination from the questions from the end of the chapter banker questions as a result students know what they are in for and the standard required of them they will have read the code their core textbook cover to cover besides most textbooks are now interactive with resources for both the lecturers and students now these resources reinforce learning and test the level of understanding which helps to gauge if learning is actually taking place those students who diligently work through the textbook will learn and remember the subject matter because deep learning will be taking place as opposed to service learning this is what we need to do to replace teaching by powerpoint which frankly ought to be banned in my opinion but that's my opinion we need to space students from death by powerpoint now one can only build upon the pyramid of knowledge if the foundation of that pyramid is wide and sound not if it's narrow hazy and superficial i will not give you examples of the type of the core textbooks that we as lecturers could use please note i said examples i'm not recommending them so for example on the subject of innovation here we are here is a core textbook on innovation and includes an interactive ebook now it says that the black is the best-selling text for mba msc advanced undergraduate courses on innovation management management of technology new product development and entrepreneurship it is really fantastic now it's got easily navigate your ebook using chapter menu search and bookmark options you can save notes and voice annotations of the reminder of key points watch video clips to bring the case studies alive and expand your understanding of missions try out the activities and tools to develop your skills and anyway it is used by top universities around the world mit harvard business school mckinsey and company saw bourne paris grenoble france imperial college university of london university of oxford instead london business school george institute management university of cambridge handling management college university of pretoria south africa and global companies such as marconi plc and procter and gamble now my point is if it is good enough for them then it is good enough for us and weak and we can learn from it for a fraction of the cost of having to travel live and learn at these world-class institutions we can stay in our country and excel just as well we need to believe in ourselves we are second to none now here's the deal we can benchmark the center of our education and that of our graduates the best class universities and be competitive in the global economy we can do it and are going to do it now innovation is the twin brother or sister of entrepreneurship take your pick here again um there is a book on entrepreneurship with clearly stated outcomes practices and sites case insights activities group discussions an interactive ebook a companion website teaching resources and learning resources all in one place it has a host of real case studies and meet the entrepreneurs section it just a beautifully tries a theory to practice in the real world and in my next example i'll show you a book that i use for my accountancy students now here is a book on international financial financial reporting standards itsu has a common website for open access student resources as well as lecture resources tailored to support the use of the book in teaching it is used by professional accountancy board is the world over and these standards have been adopted by over 140 countries around the world now companies scored on the stock markets must prepare account accounts in accordance with these standards to enable uniformity and enhance comparability between companies on stock markets the only exception is the united states which has been procrastinating adoption of the standards for one reason or another i will not go into their wise and wherefores to adopt these standards but going back to my accountancy and finance students here again as a lecturer i give them an overview of a topic they go away and read up on it make notes do the questions at the end of the chapter if they get them right then they have understood the theory and i can apply it to a given acca exam standard question come the professional exam they have most of these standards and can be examined on a selection of them which equates to deep learning and thus pass it with flying colors now this is how we produce world-beating graduates who have taken full ownership of their learning and aligned it to what is required of them by employers to survive the current thrust of the real world in other words by the time they leave university they will have achieved the learning outcomes of the or acquire the so-called graduate attributes by doing the learning activities and already and i'm now ready for the world of work will thus close the gap between susan and robert both leaving university thoroughly grounded in deep learning we can provide our undergraduates a very clearly signed posted roadmap at the very start of their journey of learning these are the code textbooks you're going to learn from we will give you a flavor of an uh flavor or an overview of the topics but you will be at the heart of learning you will be at the center of learning you will do 80 of the work if not more and take full ownership of your learning you will not kid yourself as you will be monitored as you will be monitoring your own progress all the way through your degree so grow up fast if you fail at the end of the year and exam you failed that module and we'll have to reset that examination again we will closely monitor your progress every step of the way and support you now so that's that now i want to discuss another facet of the problem of the same problem now this is particularly this is a particularly important caveat for the university chancellors and the powers that be to consider now to in order to achieve all of the above that i've discussed we need to ensure that lecturers are up to speed and with it lectures must be given time off to study the latest score textbooks this is to ensure students are taught current part of games you know books change every two three years now i have come across far too many institutions that are not seen textbooks in donkey's ears teaching old hat is a simply big no no no and yet dare i say it happens far too often also lecturers must never never be in the operating world here never be burdened with administrative duties there should be just responsible for learning teaching and pastoral care of students under their charge administrative duties stress upon lectures is emotionally draining and a sheer waste of their precious time right i have said enough to summarize that we need latest interactive core textbooks in place of laconic teaching wire powerpoint slides place students at the heart of learning to enable deep learning to take place tie up learning outcomes to home graduate attributes confidence with employers expectations we universities must take the blame for the situation we currently find ourselves in we need to stop the blame game we are the problem that said we can also be the solution to the problem if we do not change we will simply produce more of the same by the way i've heard rumors that change is the only constant and life we need to do some serious soul searching i've offered possible solutions to bridge the gap between academia and industry which i have tried and tested in the past few years and which hand on heart i can say have worked very well thank you happy to take your questions now participants uh you can post your questions in the chat box do you want me to go through them all right sir good afternoon and something okay i hope my screen is shared now or i will give you i can send you the details of the books you see it seems as though i've traumatized you what do you think i've told you what i think uh any questions please post us in the chat okay so uh we have a question from ahuja she asked i have a very small suggestion and a question as well if not the presentation more than how do you teach to make it much better interactive session between a teacher and a student let me gather my thoughts on that what i do i can only tell you what i do one i give the skeletal overview of the topic the students go and do the work they come back and say this they're not clear on this they're not clear on that and that's where the interactive session takes place we deal with problem areas does that answer your question i hope so sir uh so we have another question from fino juice uh what is your opinion on ranking it is a real gamble of worth taking i take it you're referring to global rankings of universities or ranking within within india it is about the ranking of the students i think sir i think mostly that they're talking about so they're referring the susan and the robot kind of a ranking where okay let me answer it slightly differently it's been my experience that over the years and the experience of very very senior lecturers at different universities are where i've thought that because there are so many robots in the lecture hall standards have been dumbed down and with the result there are more robots going into the world with very superficial knowledge and we need to address that the only way we can do it is we bring in these learning activities from core textbooks textbooks have been now are now being written in this particular way is to get the students to do the work what i'm telling you is nothing new i mean this was this book was published in 1999 i mean this the bologna process started in 1999 so 2021 years later 22 years later we're still doing the same thing you know universities are like super tankers for them to do a u-turn takes a long time but um we hear all this and we say yeah yeah that makes a lot of sense but do we do it now why search me i don't know there is reluctance to change uh we're sat in our ways people say to me do you really want to upset the apple car and that sort of attitude that will not cut any ice in the long run we're not doing we're letting our students down if you ask me uh did i answer that question or are you still uh it's uh i don't think so it is satisfying to many of us sir uh because anyways the university is asking for the ranking as such so uh there is again what you said is a blame game that is going on so we really don't know what could be the best solution for you know uh to adapt because the university comes with the set norms uh so rajna asks one question here can you possibly summarize the best method of bringing the gap between susan and robert to one particular average go through the core textbook go over to cover no exceptions this is what you have to do for um professional accountancy exams you cannot say i'm going to pick that topic and pick that topic and leave the rest hot spot hot spotting topics will not get you through the exam um you really must i mean a doctor needs to know everything a lawyer needs to know all the laws so why should the candidates be any different um or an engineer for that matter you know what we're doing what we're doing is we are uh a lot of courses we have a variety of options and the knowledge we're giving is a spoonful of this and a tablespoon of lamb it's very superficial to be of any use besides the students forget them without it within six months of leaving university teaching better hockey teaching teaching as you know as you all know is an art um what works with you if your students are flying through their exams and getting good results you must be doing something right if they don't then you are not then there's something something not quite right with your teaching and you need to do some soul searching and really say hey this isn't working this is working for my students it's really this is what being a reflective practitioner is all about uh did that work that these students should enjoy that did they get that they when i say give a helicopter view of a topic i mean deal with the crux of the topic so they have another a clear understanding what's at the heart of the matter once they've got that basic principle right and they're in the right ballpark they just have to go and fill in the details flashing the details themselves and they do that from from from from the core textbook not from powerpoint slides you can't possibly you can't possibly put that into powerpoint slides on each of those topics and even if it did how do you know learning is taking place how do you know learning is taking place that's the biggest challenge when you're when you're lecturing how do you know your students are not fast asleep with their eyes wide open you know i'm always asking so what do you think what do you think what do you think and you know they have to stay alert and you can tell straight away by the some of the answers they give you well you haven't read that in the textbook have you yeah i don't know how far you've got in that chapter and it keeps them on their toes and you tell them look if you want to pass the exam do what i tell you and it works unless you keep them all their tools um don't pussyfoot around students and otherwise they'll take over and they do try and take over the class wants to ask you a question sir yes sure hello hello i want to ask you a thing like you said about the powerpoint but most of the universities require the teachers to use the information communication tools i do agree that you know many times blackboard teaching is what would help and you know it doesn't make uh students look just at those points which have been put on the powerpoint so what is your take on the other ict or what would you recommend other than the power points to be used by the teachers because that's what these universities require these days thank you well universities are wrong they need to rethink and i've never used powerpoints presentations at all and i can tell you in all honesty well i'm always honest my students have never said oh why aren't you giving yourself powerpoint um handouts the lecture is very intensive it's a two hour lecture i do most of the talking i engage students continuously and and i tell them for every one hour you spend with me you will have to spend three hours on your own that is the ratio if you don't do that you're setting yourself up to fail you know we we we've gone so soft in the head and dealing with students and student surveys and some students satisfaction surveys it's just nonsense and this ranking of universities i don't really care if you if you've read a world-class book that's used by top universities around the world they're just as good as them what's the problem i we don't need to prove ourselves to anyone look at all the foreign exchange we'll save you know by not by students not having to go to these universities we can do it ourselves and to do it we need to trade the lecturer first the lecturer needs to be given time off to read this assimilate it understand it so he can say when he's asked that student the question he said go to this page it's there why haven't you read it and that inspires confidence in students you know i don't want lectures um using the same lecture here and here here and here and i've seen this happen again and again and then on top of that there they're burdened with administrative duties dinner come on i'm a lecturer not an administrator and this is what universities about the um the the management universities must understand you know this guy's a lecturer and that guy's an administrator separate the two you know there is this overlap which is just nonsense sorry i missed that i'm just quickly going to read that can i want to the next question itself yeah sure i'd kind of just ask about this this this thing about social media now you know i i ban i i tell students when i start my lecture please switch off your phone and the operative word is off i'm going to give you 30 seconds to switch it off and my god you know you should see the reaction oh you don't mean it yes i do and if your phone rings i will take it off you and if it would make that mistake again in my lecture i will throw it out the window and that's a promising thread and you know i don't get any nonsense and i also tell the portal in your bag where you can't see it you know this is a weapon of mass distraction this is ridiculous and i asked them what does the eyes stand for in the iphone can can anybody tell me what is it ah well done well craftsmanship so my question is how to meet with student expectation because they are getting the exact same thing you are talking about like other faculties are allowing iphone i am like any kind of phone in the classroom they're giving notes and kids have this idea that you know a good class is supposed to be where they will be spoon fed so when i'm trying anything out of that they are retaliating and how to deal with that i mean there are recently and i've done this almost every year and i've warned a couple of students at times if you don't misbehave if you're going to do this video i will ring your parents and tell them to take you out of the university because that's wasting their money on you you know we we we've got to take control you know i'm i don't want to say the lunatics are taking over the asylum but sometimes it feels like that you know you you cannot you cannot be bullied wait look who's in charge here you know just say to them you know stop talking when i'm interrupting i am the lecturer and you will not talk we are too scared of the top management is one area we're not afraid to we were far too afraid to challenge them and say well why are you thinking la la dare i say a lot of the um this is very true of british universities you know we uh survive on the fees speed by oc students we have become cash cows we are businesses you know uh we are very afraid to fail them because if we fail them uh we won't have any students next year and uh i'll i'll be made redundant so it's it's a ridiculous vicious cycle and it's a downward spiral of standards you know i mean failing them as it's like thought of failing them as it's like a mistake on our side like every time i will hear from my bosses that you cannot have this many people failing and you have to set your question paper according to the level of the class uh not to the level where they should be reaching at the end of the class so uh that's kind of became a phenomenon in the institute all over it's nonsense why do you let people drag you down into the gutter you're supposed to pull them out of the gutter you tell your boss you know he needs to he or she needs to have their head examined and i wouldn't be afraid to burn the monsters you know what kind of a boss is he you know does and a lot of the time the management are not teachers they've never stood in front of a classroom and they tell you how you go and do this and well you tried doing it you know and the answer is but i'm not a lecturer yeah i know you're not elected so what are you telling me huh why do you tell me how to lecture okay so i think chandra kala vishwas has got the answer from there uh harita shri asked what kind of sessions apart from the case studies as a teacher can inculcate in the class to enhance the skills at least during this pandemic situation to have the attention of the students right okay let me let me answer that and wait i'll tell you what i do when i mentioned um i get students if you've learned your accounting ratios for as an example i say right going to analyze general land rover's accounts for the last five years tell me what has their historical performance being over the last five years tell me where are they at now and if you were the ceo of jaguar land rover how would you take this company forward in the next five years what would be your strategic plan what would you would be your operational plan what would be your strategies your financial strategies your business strategies your marketing strategies so all the different topics we teach in the mba come into focus and it's a group exercise you get them to do one case every fortnight by the end of the year they're done about 2030. that's how they teach in our case studies it's only if you've mastered your textbook and you've done that will you be able to intelligently analyze jaguar land rover or roll source or any company you want to pick up and you tell them look that's the real world out back are you capable of understanding consolidated accounts do you understand what a cash flow statement is do you understand the meaning of free cash and i've done it on the executive mba and and it works i recently did this um i've done this for two years running in wuhan china and my word they were fantastic i set exams for them and i told them i told the chinese this is not a test in english this is not tested for english grammar this is an accounting paper if you get the numbers right you get full marks and more than half the classic score 100 marks of the 100 and i think the lowest mark was about 80 percent so it's doable it's deliverable it works it's worked for me it can work for you and you know what students are buzzing with happiness and say wow we did a great job we can analyze a plc you know doing it doing doing this accounting ratios and then for two years in an exam question well this ratio is better than last year this one's deteriorated big deal you've learned nothing it's completely out of context and it's superficial learning if you can't apply that knowledge in the real world then you can't i'll give you another example with qualified accountants you know i ask them what depreciation is and i get a textbook definition oh it's the loss of value through use of of an asset and blah blah blah or what is working life yeah i know that you're staking the obvious um but have you made any provision to replace the yesterday at the end of the four years right away we'd get another loan that's the level of knowledge when you say you are such a boss of an accountant you just understand the basic concept of depreciation you should have set aside money over the four years and funded the asset yourself not being perpetual debt to the duke to a bank now that's that's what's missing i'll give you another example if i may now um um when i was in my practice i i would get invited by i would be asked by my clients i'm we're recruiting our finance director could you could you join the interview panel to discuss to check and to to to check his technical knowledge so uh we've had a hundred applicants we've whittled them down to ten and now down to five come on this particular so when we are interviewing these five uh candidates i asked them questions like um so tell me cb what is cbp about um and the reaction is cvp cvp always something to do with cost volume price and i say though are you asking me or telling me um cbp and i say to them look here is a pen how would you explain cvp to a 10 year old your kid brother how would you explain cvp to a 10 year old and they start talking in circles start talking about cost behavior and i say to them i didn't know of course misbehaved and that's it kills the conversation look when you're explaining that to a 10 year old cost how much will this pen cost to make volume how many of these shall i make and p stands for the amount of profit this one pen one pen is going to contribute towards the bottom line that's what a 10 year old will understand now that's what soft skills are all about so when you talk about activity in classrooms we discuss the topic in that way can you explain it to a 10 year old and if you can you have mastered your topic but if you can't and if you've got if you're talking with marbles in your mouth blah blah blah and i'm like blah blah blah and i'm like you're like what that's the issue man we need to kick students need a good kicking and you know what once you start producing graduates like that i can bet you my bottom rupee employees will be queuing outside our university to recruit our students they'll say these these these kids from this university are taught in depth and they're on the ball and as a university we can charge them top dollar to come in recruit the best you know and if people don't perform and they bring down others and that's the other thing you need to be i'm very very careful about students like that you know they would do you know bone are the lazy robots as they call them they won't do anything and they won't let others around the world do any work you need to weed them out very quickly otherwise it just destroys the atmosphere in the classroom so we have a question from marlon yeah marlon you can unmute and ask the question yeah so it was wonderful insight that you shared with us uh usually what i find in the indian system uh what we do is we help them to vomit in a sense of vomit what they are studied no that is number one number two even if you help them to have a reflective oriented outcome the students still feel that you know something is lacking because they are not studied enough even in the reflective mode one my observation is even if we as a faculty members have to be educated first in terms of how to use itc how to engage students with the multiple options like for example case studies and using quizzes and so on so forth the other side of the coin indian system does not uh come along a long way like a western where you know the individual studies individual writeups are more important but rather we are more focused on that system so that is one one thing that i want to share with you apart from that i want to ask you is when you engage your students your students might have been a combination of various nationalities right how do they take it up the challenge of studying together as well as studying in a private way how do they enhance their skill well very interesting there's several questions there but let me refer to the body of accountancy students now the first thing i tell my students that countless is a neutral subject two plus two is equal to four you could do it in any country you can do it in any language so therefore keep your politics and your religion out of my classroom that's the first thing you know two plus two divided by two is three and they start to wonder so accountancy is very neutral subject now if you so regardless of the nationality the level of interest is the same um i am colorblind i am blind to your the country you come from i teach and if you can get your accounts right you get full marks that's part of the issue um so students feel that they're all on equal footing and some will work faster than others for example when i teach how to do cash flow forecasts in excel and projected accounts or when i'm teaching an accounting software some people are pretty computer literate and i'm not and so some people will learn things very quickly others will not so it's these people i spend most of the time with but i make sure the whole class moves together in unison before i tackle the next next topic don't leave anybody behind um you you mentioned the indian system but i'd like to share something with you when i was in china the first year that's three four years ago a chinese professor said to me you know your indian universities are fantastic and i said why do you say that he said wow look at all the top 10 companies in america they're all headed by an indian so you guys are bright and i smiled i hope you're smiling too we ended up pretty good we underrate ourselves all we ought to do is um re-examine how we do things you're right we're learning about rope we regurgitated an exam we think an examination is a test of memory it isn't it's your it's a test of your critical thinking the example that i just gave you uh the the the exam that i sent i tell my students i'm going to tell you what i'm going to ask you in the exam i'm going to ask you to analyze a plc of your choice show me that you've learned you've got the knowledge to do it and you can think critically you can take jaguar land rove forward in a constructive useful way and make it a profitable company you don't have to test people's memory that's not education that's not education at all and it's this that needs to change and if you don't think critically if you can't think on your feet and take executive decisions on the hoof and you're not responsive to market conditions i mean look at the stock market it goes up and down all day you know you've got to be on the on your feet um i'm sorry you answered that question in a roundabout way um does that answer your question yeah yeah you answered yes yeah yeah i hope so pasha mr pasha is asking a collective question from all the faculty uh that is to please suggest a technique to grab the attention of students during online classes uh we all feel that they are acting rather than learning though their videos are on uh they are just acting but then um we don't know whether they're listening to us or it's just they're acting they're posing that they are listening to all of our lectures it's it's very difficult and i'm being honest with you it's a real challenge unless the university adopts an ethos of um we're gonna charge you a lot of fees for which we will give you a quality education but to acquire that quality education that the deep learning education you're gonna have to do the work and if you're not the way to do it go to another university you know we have to say this in my mission statement this is what we're about there's only one oxford and there's only one cambridge and these universities and we've got these of these few um i.t institutions management issues in india which turn our fantastic people and you lose them to br to america you know they're running nasa they're running these top 10 companies all we got to do is replicate the business model further right across india we we know the problem we've got the solution it just needs to be rolled out don't let you see students are brought up when i say students i mean kids have been brought up by television not parents that's the first thing then they're brought up by then they're heavily influenced by hollywood and bollywood you know am i right when a parent says something you know they said to me we know it all really i've seen more days than you that's what i tell my students you see this grey hair show a little respect and if you don't want to leave you have to be able to say that and the the university um must must support you and i remember when i first started teaching in britain i i kicked out a very disruptive student who used to put his hand arm around his girlfriend they just said like that so i said will you please sit straight and wouldn't listen and he kept interrupting me and i said if you interrupt me again chris i will ask you to leave and he interrupted me and i kicked him out of the classroom i was pulled up before the principal and they said you can't do that there's bumps on seats for every student we have in the classroom we get paid so much per capita which in turn pays your salary mr watch so i kiss them goodbye so my life's too short to be wasted on clouds like that you know if the guy doesn't want to learn he doesn't want to learn so i'm saying that you know we need we need to we need to have an honest discussion a grown-up conversation with the management of the university what is it that we're trying to achieve we're trying to uplift india is what we're trying to achieve which is going to be my lecture on the 25th and 26th and the forthcoming conference this is what we need how do we get serious and start competing with china i've been to china man it's we're surrounded by china and way ahead of us give you a simple example i don't want to go into politics you know they have an attack helicopter we're having to buy one you know they all our defense equipment we're purchasing and they can make it religiously so i'll let you draw your own conclusions think about it think about it so my next question would be like many of the courses have incorporated accounts and mathematics as the subject one of the core subjects but if you see the students most of them are very uh fearing for these particular numbers so how do you suggest that we can bring this you know the gap between the learning for numbers and how do we actually achieve to you know inculcate the habit of learning math and accounts because of fear for these particular subjects can i correct a fallacy accountancy is not mathematics accountancy is kindergarten arithmetic we add we subtract we occasionally divide and we sometimes multiply to calculate a percentage but apart from that we don't mean mass this is not calculus or applied mass this is a misnomer and then axo has all those functions i mean they've even taken the thinking of arithmetic what could be simpler you know so i i i i'm not a mathematician you don't have to be a mathematician to be an accountant they think oh you've got to have a talent for it no accounting is critical thinking making sense of numbers yeah we've made a profit how can we improve the profit next year we made a loss well we'd better stop making losses or will be out of business is those thinking it's executive decisions you know mba master of business administration what does mbs stand for stands for you've mastered the art of how to administrate a business and to do that you've got to be very good at accounting you've got to be very good at uh marketing hr and all these other subjects which are brought together but what i'm saying is those subjects are being taught that are very very super superficial level i'd rather be taught three or four subjects but in depth by that i mean less is more and you will turn out a far better graduate than the ones we're turning out now even within the uk the substandard um almost next to next to nothing you know i won't say get a lot of trouble get in a lot of trouble yeah um uh he's asking a question it's actually your perspective on this particular uh query that he's asking uh the trend these days is to make classrooms learner-centered rather than teacher-centered so what's your perspective on this very much so i've been banging on about it everything's going to be student-centered learning this is what must penetrate the student's head you're going to do the work not me i tell my students i'm not a lecturer i'm a traffic cop i will tell you go straight take the third one on the left and the second one on the right and you're on the road to success and to do that and there's the road map do it i can't do this for you i've done my exams that's the good news the bad news is you have yet to do the exam and the sooner you start the sooner you'll finish and if you don't want to do it go and do something else go to mumbai and become a bollywood star or something you know and i won't pay to see you sorry i should i shouldn't be saying things like that i'm just trying to humor you because carry on please i'm enjoying this but do ask your ask questions yes sir we have a doctor uh prabhu shankar who is asking this question uh due to pandemic situation the virtual learning which is taking place since 2019-20 students are obtaining the classes using mobile phones so he's asking using mobile phones and when it is going to be a practical session also they are attending just they are listening to the practical aspect of an excel if a finance class is going on so how do we address this particular scenario i'll tell you my my own experience teaching online has been a real challenge for me it's like talking to a brick wall because students switch off their their phones they switch off the video they mute themselves and they are in the room dancing somewhere and when i say what does jon think and john is not in the room what does mary think she's not in the room either hey i'm talking to myself you know why i'll tell you why because the university is recording the lecture it's going to put it on learning central and they'll say well i'm going to the problem now and i'll i'll watch it when i need to watch it subsequently down the line when i was discussing you see my lectures are building blocks uh lecture number two builds on number one three bills on number two so if you miss one you will be at sea to understand what i'm talking about in a lecture so i want to submit the work online and on market and i say did you come to my lecture no did you look at the learning materials no did you watch the recording no well what do you want me to do and give me untold happiness to failure see if i care if you can't be born why should i care just because you're paying the fees doesn't mean we're going to send your mb in the post let it be yeah come on who's in charge here and the rubbish they produce and then i work in smaller groups and they do business presentations they have to prepare a business plan uh well this is the entrepreneurship entrepreneurship module um then i work in excel and this year i was doing at least more than twice the work either one group member is not present or two of them have not done any work and there's only one struggling and the others are piggybacking whereas in normal conditions i sign off each individual having done the work if you don't do it to my standard this is continuous assessment you are not going to be part of that group because in entrepreneurship you need three things don't you you need a fantastic um product or a service number two you've got to have excellent marketing and number three you've got to be absolutely fantastic at your accounts and if as an entrepreneur if you don't understand accounting and you don't even know how a set of accounts is put together whoa and you know as we say as a very wise man i said i can show you some ted talks you don't have one individual who can do all three it's always a team all the big companies were teams you know i'm good at accounts i'm good at marketing i'm good at manufacturing so the r d department are not accountants and the marketing people are not r d and the accountant is neither of those two you're going to bring back to bring together this team and then you have a successful company you can't do everything um we need we need and the other thing is culture um you see i i found that to my amazement in china and with their one child policy now they're gonna have three one child is looked after by mum and dad and both sets of grandparents so you've got six adults looking after one kid so this kid is told you will go to school and university and do nothing else he or she is little emperor or empress and they have a very strong confucian way of thinking you know they respect the teacher and you don't have any hassle with iphones in their class attendance is 100 they do the homework they're there on time they're never late and they're flying through the exams now we we we in the west and then we have a democracy so everybody's running a riot um at least be in your classroom stop the right we say hey you will not run a mock you hate to learn learning needs to take place and this is how we're going to do it you're at the center of learning not us we're here to guide you like as a traffic cop do this do this do this do this and this is a this is i i did my mba at the age of 62. there you go triple accredited only one person of business schools in the world have triple accreditation now we need to accredit our degrees bring them to world-class standards two people raise their hands also before that i have a very uh very uh you know representative question from dr ajaz ahmad khan yes medicine is also taught on online mode how is information too dangerous and i had heart surgery and if my cardiologists who bring it on me and then learned it online i wouldn't let him touch me my late father was a nice surgeon i used to go into surgery with him just to watch him operate cataract operations and things like that you cannot do it online my friend he's an absolute non-starter you don't want to tell me doctors taught online oh god help us i have one question uh you are teaching very well if i record your video and i give it to my students or my students are searching for your video and they are learning from your videos with the class lectures uh how much impact will they make on them if they search on their own for some other videos because the the students are not interested in our classes okay actually we are scheduling some classes and we are compelling them to attend our classes online but if they search for some other videos some informative videos regarding the subject and they are learning on their own how much impact will it create other than the teachers the concepts they are learning from some other people you're right i think it's not working it's not it hasn't worked for me this year i've people watch recordings uh they're not challenged but when you're in the classroom face to face when you have the eyeball contact when you're looking at people and their body language and you say oh you sit straight and are you that's the fourth time you've yawned am i keeping you up a little sorry sir you know that is very classically you cannot replace class face-to-face teaching people say this is going to be the new norm you can do it if you have a mature uh audience when i was doing my mba it was online the average age was 52. i was 62. you know i'm not a kid i'm not gonna mess around so i was i would pay attention we'll have the day school once a month and throughout the day the guy would give you a handout go away and read this and by the way read this and don't forget to read that howard case study and then you go to you came up with a pile of homework it was murder but uh these students you know these kids they they have this instant coffee mentality you know give me an education and i wanted yesterday i'm not prepared to work for it it doesn't happen a lot you know it's just this just won't work uh so custom audio recordings depends on the audience um if you got super brush in your class it ain't gonna work thanks for that sir uh we have to now uh yeah you can ask a question thank you uh so very good afternoon to you it's really only getting to hear you and maybe somebody who is on par on the same page because after being in the education and the teaching in the academic industry for about 20 years i'm calling it an industry because it's become an industry so about 24 25 years i have a question which says we have a strength of about 80 in a classroom now like i had asked you about the roberts and susan's how do i get all of them to continue studying and become a susan at the end of it how do i get them all to be on par especially because i have a syllabus to complete and apart from that i'm time bound by the semester so the concepts may be a little strong but then when i'm so i'm so time bound and i'm so stuck within the syllabus parameters how can i actually even get all of it 80 in one batch and 200 in one year so how do i manage to get all of them to understand the concepts and come to the same page very difficult it's a herculean task i can tell you my when i'm in the classroom teaching for two hours i'm heavily engaged with on one-on-one and this is very important but to engage with one-on-one with 120 students or 80 students is a huge challenge i'm not saying it's easy you know we have to reduce our workload you know we we we're doing we're wearing so many hats as you are you know with admin duties you're running around doing something else most of the time we're running around like like headless chickens you know i i have the luxury to to pick and choose um but whatever i've been i've told this is what i'm going to do i'm going to do it my way are you going to let me do it you're fine at the end of it i produced fantastic results and their attitude was well it's produced the results you must be doing something right let them be let in be the feedback schools were fantastic from the students and this is what i mean we need a certain amount of independence we need wiggle room we need space to breathe and and function and if we are put into straight jackets uh it's not gonna work it's not it's it's demoralizing for you to start with magic you know you know and if you're demoralizing you go to a classroom and you want to shoot the whole class and you know like i was listening to this fantastic lady yesterday and talking about mindfulness and all that you you can only you have to be feeling nice inside to be able to function in a very loving way you know right i say to a student bill g let me let me show you what do you think you know make them feel important oh that's very good and how would you progress this uh perhaps you could look at this part of the book and there's an exercise here you know it'll tell you this on that and then you change them again better did you do it and they say yeah i didn't make a lot of sense now you know but it's got to be a two-way communication and a very loving one very important maybe i'll come across as somebody who's screamed and challenged i do scream and shout but they also know i'm a very fair man you know and i do care and they say well there are not many professors there who will have a one-on-one with me you shouldn't you need to be approachable um be there you know i'm always there i'm at the university till i get kicked out by the security you know you know time is not the essence um but you have to give time to your students but not be sidetracked by the management would never stand in front of a class to teach they probably never taught a student in their life i don't think they ever probably talked their own children and yet they have the audacity to tell you how to go and teach that's nonsense i'm not buying that maybe you'll start a straight tomorrow no i don't recommend it i'm a dialogue a constructive dialogue make the management feel important and say look you know we've we think you know we can we can resolve this issue i was gobsmacked to hear your um that only 15 percent of our graduates are employable and then i read another report from didly they interviewed 3 000 engineers and only seven percent of them had core competencies seven percent come on what were the other 93 doing you know the students are doing themselves a um a disabled let me give you another example which is often i tell my students who are lazy and i warn them and i say to them if you go to mcdonald's and buy burger and chips and if they give you lukewarm burger and chips what are you gonna do this cost you i don't know 200 rupees you're gonna throw it back in their face so i'm not eating this i paid you good money but similarly you're spending thousands locks or rupees with us we're trying to give you a quality education and you don't want it why because you you skip lectures by the way whose fault is that we are at fault but you know as i say my late father used to say you can take a horse to the river but you can't force it to drink nothing new you can't give people what they don't want to eat so the initiative the drive has to come from the student the university management the vice chancellors and everybody down from there has to support you you know give you unfrightened and if you produce the results they should leave you alone because the the proof of the pudding is the employees will queue up to recruit your graduates and say hey that's the university we need to go to oh are we not in fear but ignited learning story all right many of you have inspired with you and our youtube attending uh since we are online uh you're live on youtube as well so one of the attendees asked shantanu jen from he's asked me about does age matter in academics and faculty position so what's your opinion on that age is no barrier to learning i'm always doing courses my wife is absolutely fed up and says enough courses now but you know uh it's the joy joy of learning i walk the talk i tell my students look i do exams and some of the professors at the university you know say to me oh you're not doing this you're not still doing exams are you oh god forbid anyway why is such a chicken in hawaii and when i go to an exam hall when i see they see an old man in the middle of the classroom and you know you say you don't like me don't look at me i don't wear designer clothes don't like my clothes don't look at me if you don't like my car don't look at my car stop worrying about people around me you know i've got courses lined up i did a course with the open university recently on online teaching i do know i was amazed at how much research has gone into that i was flabbergasted and the sun the net the net in fact of that uh that course it was a six-week course was that one the technology the technology we're using should be spot-on if the students have their haven't got the technology it won't work and two the mental health of the student which is very important now our students are snowflake generation you know they yeah you you say something to them and they go running to mommy mommy each other that me oh yeah compare that to my mom my mom would say well you must have done something stupid and that's the difference so um as a last question for the session uh sunil uh kardian wants to ask you a question please uh go ahead sir hello sir hello so my specific question is that uh like in uh in india ugc have come up with a four quadrant approach in which specifically i'll ask first to uh quadrant that is preparing e and e-contents prior we start the semester right and during the pandemic all faculty members were working from home uh it has it has uh like acquiring new skills where we are by ourselves editor composer director everything uh using our own resources sir i just want to ask you that when we are all supposed to put up all the e-tutorials where we are teaching four or five courses any content before it's like flooding a lot of content to the students because they are also supposed to read it for the discussion which will happen in the class maybe right now online if they are also being say they are having seven to eight courses so how is it uh practically possible that they should come up with all those e-tutorially content rated and come into the class so a very challenging job for a teacher as well as a student so just would like to have an input from your site because in india every university is working on it and they've already started i couldn't agree more with you it is a disaster in the making and if we go down this road we're going to achieve very little we need to stop less is more do two or three subjects but do them in depth um uh if that's if you if you're working to that sort of level um it's going to be a spoonful of this and a spoonful of surface learning i can tell you that now that's that's my experience i'm quite happy to take more questions i mean no rush to go anywhere nikita wants to ask you a question last question the grading system has been turned off by this national education policy uh what would you suggest that uh we should as a faculty as a teacher or as a lecturer we should take call for these uh students which are coming out of school after pandemic so let me reframe my question after pandemic if a student is a student from a school comes to a lab comes to a college as a lecturer what should uh we do our what should we do as a best teacher to bring them into a field of entrepreneurship or venture development or innovation from the very first from the very first beginning or the from the very first semester oh it's very difficult very difficult to answer that there is no one prescription go away and do abc efg and you know is the road to success it is a lot of this is trial and error um let me let me let me explain this i tell my students that each and every one of them is a scholarship student each and every one of them by that i mean they have the aptitude they have the ability what they need to bring to the table what they need to bring into the classroom is their attitude you can be a super bright student but if you don't do the homework and don't attend lectures you will fail on the other hand you can take an average student or even a below every student who's conscientious applies himself or herself attends all the lectures does the homework puts in the hours and gets a distinction it's all to do with attitude you know where you say failure is not an option for me and that becomes your driving force failure is not an option for me i will i will mug up the textbook and i will do all the questions you know i don't need my teacher to tell me he's told me by this by this month we all have done these topics by this month we'll have done these topics and by this month we'll do these topics and by this month we're going to prepare for the exams and you can do an external exam with a world-class institution and this student feels good hey i've achieved a fantastic level and when he goes for the job interview the employer is impressed yes this this this student has left university with the graduate attributes he can communicate he has soft skills you know he has the knowledge he he understands the application of the knowledge and so on and so forth we need a complete rethink with the government i i forgive me i haven't looked at all the new education policy i've got just looked at them very briefly you know handing down this goal go away and do this is not the answer we have a broad direction yes um governments and governments yesterday was listening to this fantastic uh gentleman who was an entrepreneur uh what was it bamboo bamboo india and i tell you i i was so disheartened a choice or thrice he said in his talk that talking to government agencies was a complete not a waste of time nice governments for you you know it's not governments who create jobs it's entrepreneurs who create jobs it's entrepreneurs to take risks or create wealth governments create infrastructure projects like building motorways hospitals roads but it's people like you and me who create you know who who take big risks and go into business and they fail and the failure rate is 80 within the first two years you lose your shirt you lose your home but it's these people who make all the difference so i think you need to you need to have an honest and a very honest heart-to-heart talk with the powers that be and say look this is where we need to do this is where we need to go and this is how we need to do it and you know if jordan what what guy has got used to saying surely i couldn't agree more with that in fact in fact is my motto you know what are you afraid of what are you afraid of you know if you produce the end results by the methodology that i have you know i i i'm bragging now when at at university i have migration of students from other lectures into my class my cars are awful and filling and spilling and the other lectures are saying where are my students oh they're in armour's class and i'm not very popular taking their students away but you know students will work with their feet and when they see that they're getting value for money they're getting a value an education that they appreciate but only if you put them in charge put them in the driving seat and say hey you decided to do the mba you chose to come here so let's do this it's costing you a fortune you know so make them feel important and say i'm here to help you but if you can't help yourself then you can hardly blame us you know we're not we're not magicians we're gonna wave a magic wand and transfer transfer all that knowledge into your into that thick skull of yours you have to transfer it yourself by active learning doing all the activities which which engage you purposefully and challenge you and stretch you that's how it's going to work thank you so much you've been motivating us you have ignited a lot of thoughts in us uh you know you've been a great inspiration to think in different directions uh you know your presence means a lot today for us thank you so much thank you so much i'm i'm very touched and can i just say one last thing before you go please um i've said this to an elijah bay my name is amrit not amritsa because there is the golden temple in punjab you've corrected it before as well you can call me just for me i'll be very happy yes sir thank you sir namaste yes so this is the end of the third day of aict sponsored friday fdp on bridging the gap between academy and industry through advanced pedagogical techniques i hope you have we have a lot of takeaways from amrit uh's presentation today and uh with more of an insights and illuminating session our session uh tomorrow will start with dr rijaz ahmed professor of south carolina usa doctor challenging ex imb faculty non-executive managing director of punjab and synthetic founder e-growth foundation and mr mohsen khan director skillsco india training and development bangalore see you all tomorrow by 10 take care stay safe before we uh leave dear participants please uh make sure that there's a special request that has been made by the second speaker for tomorrow that is dr charan singh he has requested that you should read the rbi guidelines before attending his session because a session will be weaved around it so please read the rbi guidelines and come for the session thank you so much everyone take care and have a great day thank you bye you