good morning everyone i should agarwal on behalf of center for management studies jain deemed to be university bangalore take this opportunity to welcome you all to the first day of our two-day international conference on nirbharpara self-reliant india building global competitiveness through innovation integrity and inclusion in collaboration with bangalore chamber of industry and commerce the conference aims to discuss various international and social political prospects and challenges of during the current period of distress due to covet 19 and also encouraged discussions on its prospective impact on the indian economy along with deliberating upon the structural changes required for becoming self-reliant the conference will also provide opportunities to exchange views and opinions on policy related issues and generate academic research output on critical social problems we believe this conference will be highly rewarding educational and networking experience for all if you a very productive two days ahead deemed to be university is ranked among the top universities in india and considered a cerebral destination for students across the world and bangalore in particular for its illustrious history of developing talent chain is hub for learning in every sense of the world the university offers conducive environment for learning be it academics or extracurricular activities known for its emphasis on education entrepreneurship research and sports jane deentoby university has some of the best minds in educational and research fields and centers that inspire entrepreneurship and groundbreaking work to manage life better its ever evolving and open-minded system and quest for continued success and resilience has made it one of the top universities in india center for management studies is an integral part of jain deemed to be university it is an institute that harnesses an international outlook with a commitment to create top-notch business leaders of the corporate world cms is the ultimate destination for students to find new routes to fulfill their dreams it is one of the top management centers in bangalore providing all essential facilities to its students to achieve their academic goals and transform them into extraordinary personalities it has secured an a grade by knack with a cgpa of 3.31 and ranked 11 among the top private universities in india before we begin with our first master class dear participants please note the session will be for one and a half hour followed by qna for half an hour i request the participants to post their questions in the chat box and keep their video on throughout the session it is mandatory to give feedback at the end of the session to get the certificate of participation our first speaker of the day is dr you and dinesh kumar he will share his insights with us on the topic ethical ai professor janesh kumar is currently working as a faculty in decision sciences area at i am bangalore and is chairperson of imbs data center and analytics lab he has been declared one of the winners of the analytics indian magazine data science faculty award 2021. he was also the imb chair of excellence professor kumar holds a phd in mathematics from iit bombay he introduced business analytics elective course in 2008 to the pgp students of i am bangalore and started one of the first certificate programs in business analytics in india in 2010 in october 2017 his book business analytics the science of data driven decision making was published by wiley india professor kumar has over 20 years of teaching and research experience and has published more than 60 research articles in reputed academic journals before joining iim he worked at several reputed institutes across the world he has also carried out predictive and prescriptive analysis analytics consulting projects for leading organizations and has conducted training programs on analytics for several companies he's also founding president of the analytics society of india and was awarded the best young teacher award by the association of indian management institute institutions in 2003 he has been listed as one of the india's top 10 analytics at academician by the analytics indian magazine has published more than 30 case studies on business analytics and machine learning algorithms based on indian and multinational organizations such as apollo hospitals big basket flipkart l t manipal hospitals mission hospital hindustan aeronautics limited indian premier league and many more at the harvard business publishing case portal he has provided analytics consulting services to many reputed organizations and conducted in-house training program on analytics for several organizations including accenture aditya brala group ashoka leyland bank of america cisco fidelity honeywell and itc infotech with immense honor and respect i welcome professor yudhinesh kumar to address our participants and attendees over to you sir hi um thank you uh agarwal for nice introduction i hope all of you are able to hear me uh just give me a second i'll share my powerpoint and start my session so i guess all of you are able to see my powerpoint just give me a second i have some videos i have to just add my computer audio as well okay if somebody can uh tell me whether you're able to see the so we can see your screen sir okay so uh it's a pleasure to interact with you uh in the next one hour or so what i'm going to do is i don't know how many of you are uh familiar with ai there is a lot of buzz i'm sure every newspaper or every magazine and also an academic circle a lot of you are already teaching or planning to teach or want to know what it is and so on right so what i'm going to do is i'm going to uh talk about what is ei and i titled my talk as demystifying artificial intelligence and ethical ai so how do you use yeah ethically when towards the end i'll also talk about uh unethical use of egg which is important for us to understand because uh any technology you can use it for uh you know bad reasons right even though it comes with a lot of uh applications which will benefit humanity somebody can also misuse it that's you know true for any technology not just for ai but it is important for us to be aware of how people uh can misuse ei but i'll come to that uh toward the end so uh in simple terms what is ai is nothing but missions that can demonstrate human-like intelligence now what does that mean right so what do we do with our intelligence it has obviously multiple functions right but one important dimension of intelligence is that it allows us to take decision now the question is whether machines can take decision now we already have missions in the market which can take decision not as complex as the kind of decisions that we take in our life both professional and personal but it is a you know long journey and it is worth it why is it worth it if you look at some facilities or services for example firefighting right it's a very dangerous job and if you remember 9 11 in addition to more than 3 000 people died in those wtc building there are large number of deaths happen uh among the fire service fighters in the new york city right and there are a lot of uh risky tasks for example uh mining there are a lot of abandoned mining uh across the world and people don't even know what is inside so uh when you want to understand the kind of risks all these abundant minds processes to the environment to the society around that it is very very difficult for human to get into this right so can we create robots which can behave like human and help us in such extremely dangerous situation so that is one aspect of it the other aspect of it is whether it can augment our capabilities so now there are a lot of robots introduced which can assist surgeons with their surgery so the error comes down right so we are looking at a large number of applications across the different domains which can benefit the society at large right but then remember we have just taken baby step even though there are huge buzz it's a long way we have long way to go before we can create uh robots which can actually think like a human this is a simple view of ai so typically you try to understand patterns in data gain business insight and deploy impactful solution right this impactful solution is very very important because at the end of the day uh there is no point in doing some hobby projects when i say hobby projects these are projects which will not have any social relevance or it will not make an impact to the society right uh we need to use ai which will have a positive impact for the society okay let us look at this video uh how ai can change the world so this is a video is about an insurance company how air driven insurance company will look like and how a company without ai will look like i hope you are able to hear the voice sorry the audio in the video no no no it's just it's just construction yeah that's all no no i'm i'm not driving are you okay yeah you i'm good i'm good oh no not you listen i'm gonna have to call my agent i'm gonna get right back to you mr burton this is inshore corp we've received sensor data that indicates you were in an accident are you injured in any way i'm not injured no is anyone else injured i don't believe so okay where's my agent's number we have pinpointed your location and we are showing your car is not drivable so we are dispatching an uber car to take you to your destination that would be great i'm pressing one english e-n-g-l-i english may we give your coordinates to our appraiser drone to perform the appraisal absolutely we have received the photos assessed the damage authorized the repair selected a qualified repair facility and have dispatched a tow truck to take your vehicle to that facility perfect yes hi this is yes we have looked up the other vehicle's insurance transmitted the appropriate data to create the claim and filed the california sr1 accident report can you confirm the information is correct on your phone then hit the accept button i'll check it right now okay all done thank you your uber car is arriving now i see it coming accident not payment accident your tow truck should be there now don't forget to leave your keys in the vehicle thank you for using insure corp powered by pivotal labs so you can see how air driven world will look like right it's the most companies use it for customer centric service and it creates a lot of convenience and efficiencies in the system right so this is why it is becoming more and more popular and many companies use ai as a competitive strategy that's basically what they use to compete uh in the market now let us try to understand uh why do organizations use say data science and ai the first and the foremost reason is for better understanding of economic drivers of the business if you don't understand what is driving your business you cannot perform well so the primary objective is to understand the economic traverse the second is it allows you to manage mathematically interactable problems now what do i mean by that there are a lot of industry relevant problems which are mathematically intractable that means there is no efficient algorithm that can solve those problems for example if you look at uh today the delivery has become the most important thanks to kovid and so on right so whether it is amazon or flipkart or any company that we are talking about on time delivery of the orders placed by the customers is very very important for success of that particular company right now if you look at say a company like amazon you have a career boy and he or she has to deliver 20 items to 20 different customers and obviously they would like to optimize the route they take otherwise they end up spending a lot of time trying to deliver items that means they like to hire more people and it's a very very inefficient system but if you look at the number of solutions it's a traveling salesman problem the number of solution to deliver 20 items or the roots is 20 factorial now when you try to solve a traveling salesman problem with 20 factorial if you're just exhaustively searching and if you have a laptop that can evaluate 1 million roots per second it will take 77 000 years and this problem has become very important because of the way in which the business is done today and even in manufacturing movement of robots are nothing but traveling salesman problem so how do you deal with problems for example you know if you look at even uh the smartphones it's a 500 city problem and vlsi fabrication or motherboards which are used in large electronic equipment can be 1 million or anywhere between 1 lakh 1 million cities right so when you can't when you don't have an efficient algorithm uh to solve even a problem of size thousand cities how are we going to deal with one lakh or one million and so on right but that's where the aiml comes in it allows us to uh manage mathematically difficult problems right and another important thing is it creates competitive advantage so as i mentioned earlier a allows companies to create competitive advantage and in fact there was a study which looked at highly uh profitable companies or high uh highly uh you know high performance companies with companies which are low performing companies that means no profit or there and loss uh one main differentiator between a high performing company and low performing company was the analytic sophistication that existed in these companies this was a study which was published at the mit sloan management review in 2010 so let us look at how air leads to impactful transformation right at an organization level so like any other technology you have inputs you have outputs and you have outcome what are the inputs you have the data scientists and also you have the investment in ai infrastructure like the platforms software and all that the output is basically the models mathematical models uh artificial intelligence model machine learning models created by them but just because you create a model mathematical model don't think that that will make an impact right so uh you have to actually look at okay what is the impact that the company has achieved okay let me uh give you an example which all of us probably familiar with amazon right amazon today is probably you know the most kind of influential company in the world right but 35 of the revenue comes through recommender system so whenever you buy you also see other products they recommend below those panels that you see now 35 percent of amazon's revenue just one algorithm right so that's the kind of impact that we are talking about and when we talk about impact we need to get the right idea about what is impact so let me give you another example this is about a company called martin baker it's a uk based company they make uh aircraft ejection seats so basically this is especially for fighter aircraft and you know we keep hearing in india that there's a crash of fighter aircraft and pilot dad and so on right so they have this ejection seat when uh the pilot realizes that they are in trouble they can actually ignite that so it the seats along with the pilot gets ejected and they safely land somewhere uh away from the uh crash site of the aircraft right so if you look at uh if you visit their website they don't uh talk about how much uh seats they made how many people are working what is the revenue and so on there's one number that is code this is total number of live saved because of their ejection seats so when i checked last time the number was 7638 right so what people are trying to do is whether they can make a societal impact obviously there are other things like profit and you know shareholder value and all that i mean no company is going to deviate from that because that's a reason why they exist but in addition to that can you make an impact right so one technology that will help them to make a positive impact on the society is yeah today we have companies which are completely operated by machine learning algorithm so just watch this video i think we're just starting to realize the full potential of algorithms and i have one more place i want to visit which i'm told will give me a glimpse of just how much they're able to do for us it's a world where almost everything is automated where algorithms are in control it's the largest automated grocery warehouse on earth it belongs to the online grocery retailer ocado and it's the equivalent of 45 supermarkets in one over two million items flow through this warehouse every day but at any one time there is something like 7 000 crates going over 25 kilometers of track and controlling every aspect of this astonishing spectacle of algorithms each of those red crates is part of a customer order and and there are and they may go on from here to find other items that they want across the warehouse until they're eventually finished loaded onto a van and then driven out by our routing system on a on a route which is in many ways is solving you know problems like the traveling salesman problem i mean there are decisions being made all over the place as a red crate goes this way then that way the complexity behind all of this is beyond what you know any human could control or solve and and that is where these these algorithms these problem-solving techniques come in to overcome those challenges everywhere you look the invisible hand of the algorithm is at work forecasting algorithms monitor and replenish the stock of more than 43 000 products anticipating customer demand control system algorithms manage the traffic of the more than 7 000 crates around the warehouse and van routing algorithms control the movement of the fleet of over 1500 vans testing over 4 million different route combinations every second you can almost see the mind of the machine at work and it's not a static process so that's why there's a huge amount of machine learning in here and so it's like a self-adapting organism it's constantly having to learn how to do it better and people couldn't do that the machine has to tune itself so who would you say was actually in control of the whole thing well ultimately it's the algorithms that are in control no i think i'm getting sort of algorithmic hot flushes by looking at this amazing thing in some sense this warehouse is like a little microcosm of the modern world algorithms are running everything from search engines on the internet sat nav even keeping our credit card secure our world wouldn't function without the power of these algorithms okay so uh in 2014 google purchased a company called nest and nest was just making uh thermostat there they were into home automation right just watch this video and we'll realize uh how missions have started taking decision this thermostat will make you love your thermostat it's in millions of homes around the world it's saved billions of kilowatt hours of energy so far and that's just the beginning meet the third generation nest learning thermostat it has a bigger sharper screen and it's even better at learning what you like just turn it up or down it will catch on after a few days and create a personalized schedule for you that's how the nest thermostat saves energy in real homes with real families it saved so much energy it paid for itself to save even more just follow the leaf nest even turns itself down when you leave the house and you can control it from anywhere you can see how much energy you use every day and how to use less energy companies all over the world are giving the nest thermostat to their customers because they know it saves energy that's the most beautiful part the nest learning thermostat programs itself then pays for itself okay any questions so far all right so i'll just continue and you know pause uh the questions will be asked after the session so okay fine okay okay we'll take up questions after this session sure okay no problem okay so uh if you look at the very good companies yeah they use two different strategies one is transformative approach so you try to create solution through ai whereas it's not possible for all companies many other companies use incremental approach which is basically augmenting human capabilities to uh using ai because not every company can become an ai first company at least they are not ready because if you want to become an ai first company then you should go through digital transformation first at least your data should be digitized in large number of cases even though the data may be in the digital format but there are a lot of data quality issues and so on and large number of companies even today have manual data collection so they're not nowhere close even to apply simple ai forget about trying to become a uh first company and what are the different types of applications so where how is it getting used a lot of companies use a for robotic process automation because there are a lot of manual process which we use which can be automated for example if you have been to a bank to open an account in the past you would have filled some forms and you know supplied some kind of papers uh and it would have taken say one week for you to open an account today it takes only five minutes because the entire process has been automated and the second most important application is gaining cognitive insights from data analysis so if it is a bank they would like to know who will default and insurance companies like to know whether a transaction is a fraudulent claim or genuine claim and you have large number of such applications i'm going to talk about some of them later the third one is continuous engagement with the customers this is where your chat bots and other robots play a very very important role right so what i'm going to do is i'm going to talk about uh two important use this is uh basically project that we worked on and one is a commercial application the other one is application the healthcare which will have a significant impact for the society so i'm going to talk about one of the project that we did which is customer analytics at big basket uh this is a case uh title and it's a case that is published at the harvard business publishing and it is one of the best sellers at harvard porter so uh i'm sure many of you uh were buying or buying products from big basket and what happens is when you are about to check out you would have seen uh this one they asked a question did you forget right now the question is why are they asking this did you target we can make it interactive can somebody answer why big basket is asking this question did you forget many of you would have seen it any answer so from the last purchase what you have ordered and maybe if you're ordering for a particular you know recipe and some of the thing you're forgetting from that like for ginger or something like that which should be there so they are analyzing that and they're asking you whether you forget that and then again maybe you will remember later that particular thing and you will order again so they have to send you know delivery person twice to your house so basically they try to analyze and tell you uh the recommendation that you might have forbidden yeah i mean my question is why should they care whether you forgot something or not you are i mean saying how we can find whether a customer has forgotten something or not but why should big basket care suppose i forget something why should they bother and why isn't important they have to send them so let us try to understand why is this an important problem according to your statistics 60 percent of us forget one or two items in grocery purchase you don't remember right even when you write and go you may not have written all the items that you don't have and after reaching home you realize oh yeah i forgot this okay so when people forget what can happen is they can i mean whenever they remember let us say they remember after three four hours they come back and place order again all right so that means as the doctor was pointing out the person has to make two visits that is going to increase their cost or they may go to a nearby store let us say they just forgot one of two items they don't want to place order again they go to a nearby store to buy that but then since they are already in the store they end up buying more items right that means the future purchase from the basket will go down so it is making an impact for the revenue as well as operating cost so that's why it is an important problem for them right now the question is how do you solve it but before that let us also try to understand what is the financial impact so i mentioned about okay it is going to have an impact on the cost operating cost the logistic cost is going to increase or it will have an impact on revenue now if you can come up with an algorithm which is say 80 accurate in predicting whether somebody uh has forgotten something or not we are talking about 40 crores this is based on the numbers that we had and this is yeah i'm talking about 2014 15 numbers so now it may be much much higher right so if we can have an algorithm which is not going to cost you even say 10 lakhs right but this is the kind of revenue that we are talking about all right so uh the thing is how do you proceed right now any ai problem or machine learning uh problem the first thing is that you'll have lot of data challenges in grocery purchase you have lot of seasonal promotions right so for example here they had this offer june boone offers which is basically rice dal sugar and oil combo for 1199 now this offer may last june july that's it if you go and check in october it may not be there so this xk itself may not exist so there are a lot of seasonal products uh in grocery purchase especially fruits right they're all seasonal fruits so you you cannot find i mean you may not find mango in january or february uh whereas even i mean that's true for many other uh fruits right and also at what level you want to ask this question do you want to ask whether you forgot 100 ml coke can or diet coke or do you want to ask did you forget coke right and it makes a huge difference the way in which the algorithm will work it's going to make a huge difference once you sort out these data challenges right and other data challenge is that in ml there is something called cold start problems so the term comes from cold countries where if you leave your car for long outside in cold temperature it takes some time to stop right it will not start immediately because the ignition take a lot more time so in ml what is the cold start problem let us say somebody is purchasing from big basket for the first time how do i know whether he or she forgot something or let us say we don't have good history of this customer the customer has purchased three or four or five times i haven't learned much about the customer uh how am i going to predict right so these are the data challenges that you'll have and you have to go through those data challenges and come up with a strategy to deal with those data challenges now how do you predict we looked at multiple algorithms i don't know how many of you are familiar with machine learning algorithms you can treat it as a recommender system problem you can you know use collaborative filtering association mining there are many algorithm but what we did is we used google page ranking algorithm so when you go to google and enter a keyword to search it uses an algorithm to identify the websites and ranks them and displace them based on the rank so according to google the one which is displayed at the top is the most relevant page and most important pages based on not just your own search but based on many other searches they have with that now what google page rank algorithm does is when you enter a keyword it ranks the website now what we are trying to do is we are ranking the skus or grocery items for each customer having seen the customer's purchase behavior his or her customer purchase behavior in the past i get an idea what this person usually buys and what the person buys together so if if he or she buys say a coke bottle how likely she is going to buy some banana chips right so i i am trying to come up with a rank at each customer level and that's what the google's page ranking algorithm does and it's a very very brilliant algorithm which gets used at multiple places whenever you want to rank an list of items entities and so on let us watch a simple video on google page ranking algorithm for us to understand how it works in 1998 in this garage in menlo park california an important piece of algorithmic history was made inside were two phd students from stamford university larry page and sergey brin their aim was to come up with a search engine that could find things efficiently on the world wide web out of these humble beginnings google was born but google wouldn't be google if it wasn't for the algorithm that larry and sergey created called pagerank pagerank was the algorithm at the heart of the first incarnation of the google search engine now technically it's not a search algorithm but a ranking algorithm so when you type a query into a search engine then there are literally millions of pages which will match that query what pagerank does is to rank all of those pages such that the one at the top is the one that you're most likely to be interested in larry and sergey came up with the idea to do pagerank to use it as a ranking signal to improve the quality of web search i remember myself at the time you used web search engine like alta vista you would have to click that next page link a lot of times to find what you were looking for page rank was one of the reasons why google was so much better than the existing search engines at the time the inner workings of pagerank are hidden from view on the world wide web so to reveal how it does its job we're going to use the page rank algorithm to rank the players of a football team page rank looks at two things it looks at the incoming links to a webpage that is the other pages that link to the page and it looks at how important those pages are in our demonstration to show the cleverness of the pagerank algorithm the players in the football team are the web pages and the passes between them are the web links the input for the algorithm generally speaking the pagerank algorithm will give a higher rank to a website if it's got a lot of links coming from other websites so in the case of football if a player gets more passes from the rest of the team then they'll be ranked higher it's not quite that simple because the page rank algorithm actually gives more weight to a link from a website that itself has a high page rank so actually a pass from a popular player is worth more than a pass from a player is hardly involved in the game at all this is a visualization of the algorithm at work the stats are the player's current ranking the output of the algorithm and every time there's a pass these rankings are updated when google uses this algorithm it only changes one thing the input in place of passes it uses web links note that the importance of a page depends on the importance of the pages that link to it this means that you have to compute page rank for all the pages at the same time and you actually have to repeat the computation because each time you update the importance of all the pages and that in turn will influence the importance of the pages that those pages link to at the end of the match the job of the algorithm is done if we wanted to search for the key player in the team this is pagerank's answer plan okay so basically what we did we had for each customer we had their basket so basket one is their first time whatever item they purchased and basket 2 is second times and at the top you have item 1 item 2 i1 i2 and so on these are different items so what we did we used that data and came up with something called similarity scope so how likely the customer is going to buy item one and item two together right and we did this across all items purchased by the customer and we came up with the matrix so if you look at this matrix what you see here is that uh potato and bread are likely to purchase 11 other times right potato and milk are likely to purchase 33 of the times so we have this data so now this is a probability matrix is basically a markov matrix and if you look at the underlying technique below page ranking algorithm is basically markov chain so all we have to do is find the stationary distribution of markov chain and the one which has the highest probability is the highly ranked item and in case of google page rank the one which has the highest probability is the most important website for that particular uh search so we created the rank for all the customers right and even before they enter we have the rank for different items based on their past past purchase history and when they start adding the items we rearrange the rank and when they are about to check out we pick up four or five from leftover items r and ask did you forget this right so this is the i'm not getting to the mathematics of all this uh because it will be you know too much away from what i'm planning to do today uh so this is how uh the algorithm works and there are many other variations of this this is not the only way you can actually solve this problem right what is the impact so this algorithm uh in 73 of the cases it was correctly predicting more than 75 percent of the forgotten items so basically we asked this question if i recommend five items if i ask did you forget and list five items what is the probability that at least three of them will be picked up by the customer that happened in 73 what is not clear is that in 13 of the cases the customer did not pick any of the items which was recommend right but then we had to improve we had to figure out why those customers did not buy any of the items that we asked did you forget but the good news is large majority of them were buying from the list of items that was recommended so this is the first story that i wanted to uh it also has a lot of data challenges because every buyer has a unique purchase behavior so using a single model for all the customers is not going to work right and obviously the model needs to be updated and there are real time issues because of the seasonal nature of grocery for example let us say now we have a mango season and many people buy mango and assume that a customer enters the portal to buy something in say december and algorithm will say okay this guy has been buying mangoes regularly so he'd ask where did you forget mango right and the customer gets excited and then he clicks yes i forgot mango and he clicks on that but then you'll realize that you also don't have manual right big basket will not have angle it's it's out of season now so now you cannot send a pop-up message to customers saying that sorry we also forgot mine so what i'm trying to say is that it's a real-time solution you have to take care of so many aspects before you actually operationalize and deploy this solution so it is not just about creating an algorithm there are other uh things that you need to do before you operationalize this okay that's the first story now i'm going to talk about the second story which is about neonatal sepsis or creating an early warning system for neonatal senses what is sepsis it's a bacterial infection of blood that can lead to multiple organ failure and death in new born babies it also exists for adults but it is a lot more critical because the immune system is not developed especially a newborn so the number of deaths in india is quite high this happens within uh first 28 day days of baby's birth so as i just mentioned highest incidence across the globe happens in india more than 6 lakhs deaths annually and 80 of this six flag death happens at bottom of pramid in rural areas where they don't have access to uh health care or you know that probably travel a long distance to reach tertiary care hospitals and so on right currently the neonatal mortality rate is 25 which is the highest in the world uh one of the highest the worst in asia is i mean one which has a higher number than a india is afghanistan so all other asian countries the near neonatal mortality rate is lower than india and if you look at some of the countries like japan uh their neonatal mortal rate is actually zero okay so what are the problems right uh the thing is if uh the baby is born in a rural area the healthcare infrastructure and accessibility accessibility is poor so the only person it may be available there is asha worker right and many times asha workers are not given they are given some basic training they're not you know trained doctors right so uh they since they're not trained they may take more time to realize that the baby is you know suffering from sepsis and they may not have any facility there so they had to transport the baby to nearby primary health center and our data showed that 40 percent of the deaths happen because delay in transport right and also in the tertiary sorry primary health center uh secondary and tertiary center what we are seeing is that there is uh heavy use of antibiotics right and babies develop resistance and that is again another disaster so they don't react to any of the antibiotics that are available in the market okay so if you look at here uh 65 percent of the debts happen within the first 28 days we are talking about 6 lakh 25 000 and the remaining debts happen uh below one year and one to five year and so on all right so uh the question is how can we create a solution for this now if i can uh create a early warning system which can be used even by asha worker that's that will be a great help right so uh we collected lot of data right from three different hospitals and developed large number of uh models and these models were developed so that it can be used at asha worker level or a primary health center or even a treasury health center uh these are the different types of data we collected so some of these data uh is basically non-invasive data so you're not collecting blood and doing some blood tests or computer tests you're just looking at whether the baby is active you're monitoring the temperature you're monitoring the pulse you're monitoring mothers should be transferred to uh you know primarily or a better hospital so that they can start the proper uh treatment so this is the kind of data that we collected we collected uh 1676 observations with more than 200 features right and these are multiple observation per baby so uh every baby if the baby is you know not breathing well are having some difficulty the babies monitor every uh two hours and the data gets collected every two hours right and we had 449 unique baby rectors so what we did uh we developed three models i will not get into the actual model these are all you know simple logistic regression model uh decentriy models and even techniques such as random forest and so on right so we can use these models at a many different levels for example in most villages the first point of contact for mother when baby falls sick is their asha booker right and asha worker may not have i mean they can probably give some simple injections and so on but they cannot do blood tests and many of these villages may not even have facilities diagnostic center to do blood tests so uh we used non-invasive features so that asha worker can quickly take a call and recommend the baby to be transferred to primary health center or nearby hospital and so on right this gives you an idea of different models i'm not i mean i mentioned logistic regression random forest and so on but the good news is that we are able to predict whether the baby is suffering from sepsis or not uh with an accuracy of 80 percent without using non-invasive uh features right obviously if you go and do a blood test or culture test you know whether the baby has some infection uh which can lead to sepsis and so on but then you have to remember one thing even in a city like bangalore right uh if you do a culture test blood culture test uh it may take three days and if it is a weekend you are talking good five days now imagine somebody is living in a remote village and they have to do a blood test on a baby and the nearest diagnostic center may be 500 kilometers straight right so it takes one week to even get the blood report to confirm what kind of infection the baby is suffering from right so that's why these kind of models uh you know create a lot of value because we are just using simple non-invasive uh features to uh predict or give an early warning uh it's not even whether the baby is having sepsis or what how likely the baby is going to get tests right so these are the some of the features that we looked at bossy body mass index height mechanical diabetes whether the mother is suffering from diabetes rupture of membranes breastfeeding initiation how much time was taken before the mother could breastfeed the baby appearance blood pressure blood glucose age weight gestational age frequency of stools urine output breathing rate so these are all you know mostly non-invasive uh kind of test because today you can do blood glucose level just as with a small prick right so uh this model was developed by one of the startups based out of uh hyderabad then they're called aventra technologies and a lot of beta testing is going on and if you're lucky lot of hospitals will adapt and our final objective is to uh scale this model uh output so that it can be delivered uh at a smartphone so that even asha worker can enter the details of the features and uh predict or at least take a call what is going on with the baby so what i'm trying to say is it is not just developing the model i mean i can run the model in my laptop but what is the use of that so the end user should be able to use that means the model should be deployed which can be also ease easily so the best way to use the model is create a app out of that so that asha worker wherever he or she is can actually uh you know take decision based on that okay so those are the two uh things that i thought i'll talk about that we have done large number of cases uh because of time i'll not get into that uh but then you know uh what i mentioned uh these two cases are ethical use of yet right but whereas a lot of companies use i mean i don't see a lot of computers but few companies use uh ai knowingly or unknowingly which can be unethical use of this unethical use of a can come from two different sources one is the data itself is bias right or the model is biased let me uh just give you a simple example of what do i mean by a database right in 2000 there was a online survey to find out who was the most influential man of the past 2000 years right this survey was done in uk and this person was voted as the most influential man of past two thousand years many of you may not recognize him unless you're a football fanatic you may not recognize who this person is and in this poll you recognize this one this person very well he came second so he lost the election right and this guy is uh jaime pollock uh during 99 2000 season he was playing for manchester uh city and if they were induced in one of those days and it was a penalty made match of the season between manchester uh city and the other team was queen spark ranges this is what happened just to give you some a little more background so that to win the match otherwise they'll be relegated to division two and even the queen spark rangers were in the same boat right so they were also in a tricky situation so this is what happened in the match now the ball is with jaime he puts that goal it's a wonderful goal but the only problem was it was at the wrong side of the net so he with all that effort he put a self go now because of this self goal the match ended in two or draw and because of that goal uh manchester city got relegated to division two and queen spark rangers remained in division one okay so this poll was immediately after this incident now what happened all the uh or most fans of queensforgranger vented what went and voted for jamie pollock as the most influential map now this is an example of data bias and the data bias happens in many different bases then you have algorithmic bias now what algorithms do is it may be sometime people did not think about it they create a bias either based on gender race and so on right let us watch this video this video is on soap dispenser but then the way in which it was designed it will dispense the soap only for white men if a dark person a brown person uh tries to use this soap dispenser they will not get the soap because the dispenser will not dispense so just watch this futurism entering the future okay noel we're trying come to your honey to black to black yeah come okay so uh the ethical use of ai is becoming very very important uh in fact many of you would have heard about cambridge analytica and so on uh sometimes it's just people would have overlooked for example google deployed an algorithm for screening the applications and for certain position it was shortlisting only male candidates right and uh they didn't realize and somebody wrote about it and that to withdraw the entire that is crap that entire algorithm so uh so that's probably unentered unintended uh algorithmic uh damage which was done whereas people use on purpose so somebody like cambridge analytica was tracking people in their facebook and trying to find their interests and all that and using that they are influencing people to work for a particular political party including uh giving them bribes and so on right so this is a major issue uh but then people are coming up with the regulations to uh take care of uh such issues uh and ensure that it's not repeated okay right so that's what i had uh exactly one hour now so uh if you have any questions uh you can ask you can ask you know i worked on many different projects uh uh even for startups to you know multinationals many uh aia deployment projects so let us just interact i would like to ask i mean i would like you to ask whatever questions you may have oh dear participants if you would like to ask questions you can raise your hand we'll unmute you you can ask the professor directly if you have any questions please raise your hand okay i'll uh unmute um good morning sir my name is devendra jadwani i'm from jain university uh i would like to ask a question regarding ai as to how small businesses like what we have we have a manufacturing company and a small brand of shirts how can we implement ai because as i understand ai requires a certain amount of coding we need to hire a couple of people to help us use this ai and marketing our products how do you think i personally can use ai even if it's a small fraction to help improve sales in my business okay so uh we have in fact we are currently working with a small business uh helping them to deploy uh ai and we have also with a lot of companies ngos to help them with yeah right so let me uh one of them is akshay patra foundation many of you would know and i'll just share the screen again i just want to show something so this is basically howard's site where we have published our cases and one of the best selling case at howard is on akkhapatra so this is again you can see that bestseller uh i'll go to so this is on foundation right it's an ngo and it supplies free food to school children across india or most states of india okay the first thing you have to realize is that ai is not expensive so today you have a lot of open source software you don't have to spend obviously you'll need a laptop to run the model right and you don't have to spend anything on software right you can use python or julia or r to build all the models and obviously you have to train yourself in uh those models so if i have to give you an answer uh all you have to do is take a training program and buy a laptop if you can do that much you can you know create solution using ai so in this case if you look at akshay patra foundation uh we looked at one of the kitchens from that kitchen they were supplying food to 650 uh hospitals sorry 650 schools and the furthest school is about four hours now they face large number of issues i'll tell you one issue if you look at the price fluctuation in india the maximum is on food vegetables right and their budget for each meal is 7 rupees 50 pies in our country you may find onions selling at 20 rupees 30 rupees and suddenly it can go to 200 degrees tomato there may be selling at 5 rupees per kg suddenly it can become 60 rupees same for many of the other vegetables now when you have a high fluctuation in vegetables and children are basically given sambar and rice okay and most of your ingredients have high fluctuation and you have a very very stringent budget so if uh let us say potato which was selling at 20 rupees suddenly becomes 80 rupees what are you going to do because you don't have budget to spend a lot of money on vegetables okay why can't i reduce the content it doesn't work like that because there is it's a public private partnership so that signed a contract so that each meal will carry certain quantity of calorie lipid and so on right so they cannot compromise on that the energy that the children should get should be given now you cannot blame on the price fluctuation you cannot say that onion price went up so we couldn't provide onion our potato price went up and so on so they created 40 different recipes and use lot of algorithm even to predict the price and write future contracts and so on now did they invest heavily i mean probably they have you know more endowments than small businesses uh but we are even working with startups with just four lakhs uh turnover and we are helping them to use analytics to improve their decisions and form my answer to is that it is not expensive to use ai right thanks to all the uh open source software available today anyone can use it obviously you need trained people and that's all thank you so much sir for answering the question mr kiran prabhu would like to ask a question so you can unmute yeah thank you thank you ma'am uh good afternoon sir um my question is like i've been reading a lot and uh generally the articles on the future of uh ai especially right um of course we we see a lot of applications everywhere uh but some other articles indicate that we might reach to a stage where um there is a doomsday in the sense that you know a will take over of course it's it's more like uh imagination now but uh it could happen as a reality right so i just wanted to understand your thoughts on are we really going in the right direction by um exploiting ai to an extent that you know it starts controlling our lives like for example you talked about the example of uh you know temperature control right uh that is that is just you know the base left right but when it starts uh influencing our decision making capabilities itself right that's when um a lot of problems will uh creep in so i just wanted to understand your thoughts uh your perception of where are we heading in all this basically that's why we need to have eia governance right so governance should play an important role and decide where you can use a and where you should not be using yet right so for example europe has this gdpr general data production regulation right every country india is developing one so just because ea can be misused not using them can be also disaster i i want to have firefighters who are basically robots right why should a firefighter die in action why should he lose his or her life to save somebody else right that's what happened with uh 9 11 right more than 300 people died so we need to have a governance structure which mandates where you can use and where you should not it's a role of the government and if the government uh realizes that and then puts proper regulations in place then we should not have much of a problem so what i am saying is that the benefits of ai for exceeds the dangers of air and that is true for any technology right people use misuse mobile phone lot of fraud happens through mobile phone right it's the same with all technologies any other question yes sir thank you sir for answering there's a question by dr ram krishnan he asked that in a connected digital india especially during pandemic with awareness on cleanliness how can the source of bacteria carriers like insects humans air environment one lives in be minimized using ai see we have to understand the entire ecosystem when we say that you know bacteria or virus is causing problems we cannot also live without bacteria and virus our human body has billions of bacteria and they play an important role right now it's basically educating people right uh for example if you uh take uh africa i mean there is a ted talk you you may actually check that large number of people die due to diarrhea on a daily basis compared to the people died because of say kobe now a cleanliness is one aspect and this problem of death due to diarrhea can be solved if every family is given a piece of soap simple soap it you can completely eliminate it right and you need to put a system in place process in place and follow that rigorously and have fallback mechanism and so on right so again uh the governance plays an important role individuals we can educate i mean you can educate people around you or you know people in your village and so on but can you educate a population of 1.3 billion right so that's where again i go back to the governance it's a role of the government and they have to come up with the right strategy to ex you know create awareness so that it's not they take care of their health and also ensure that they're not passing on to others all right thank you sir so there's a question that i would like to ask you so like there are a lot of people who do stock market right so can ai uh help them in minimizing their risk and losses okay so you know the the lot of people use what is known as algorithmic today right and so the last because it's an uncertain environment right a minor thing happens somewhere our shocks can go down okay now uh what people have shown is that the algorithmic trading or trading done through algorithm is able to beat human trading right so it's like you know if you look at uh ai was able to beat uh you know the world champions in chess world champions in go and so on the power of a is in computation the power of human mind is in cognition so when you try to uh you know combine these two that's where the deep learning algorithms work then you can do better than what human mind can do because we cannot i cannot uh you know uh create a mental model of arima and predict what will happen in the next two days and so on whereas these algorithms can do right but i know how to build those algorithms so we have the computational power of models and we have the cognitive power of human mind when you merge together we can create a superior product but then that superior product doesn't mean that you'll always win because it is better than what we have now so we will not have any model which can with hundred percent guarantee avoid losses and so on you'll have some losses but then it'll be far better than not using that okay thank you sir because i feel that uh somewhere when we manually trade or the human mind is involved it has a lot of emotions and that those complex emotions sometimes uh like make you incur huge losses so yeah so with i think so with ai we can uh at least uh uh have a proper stop loss and trade yeah yeah so i mean i've been doing this for now centuries or decades right algorithmic trading is one of the popular trading techniques which is used today right and people in fact you know one of my colleague is actually next door uh he teaches algorithmic trading uh time bangalore and it's one of the popular courses the reason why it's a popular course is that a lot of uh companies use algorithmic trading and a lot of people claim that algorithmic trading works far better than you know other ways of trading intuitive investment and all that so for i want to know that if you want to go for algorithmic trading so do you have to compulsively buy a software to do it i mean uh it depends on whether it is a personal use or you're actually also acting as an advisor right you can develop your own model right these models are not that difficult and obviously if let's say goldman sachs or some other you know big uh private equity firm or you know corporate finance firm users the scale of operation is higher so they make a large investment in developing the software they bring in and also the kind of data that you use right so what happens if u.s government takes a decision how it is going to affect uh you know indian stock market or if uh china makes an announcement how it is going to impact the indian market right so it depends on how much data you can you know uh connect uh in your model so the answer is you can develop your own algorithm uh but then how effectively you can because it's it's you know there may be 100 guys sitting in uh some of these top uh financial institutions to develop these models right so as an individual it is a tough call for it matching that also yes so there's a question by one of our youtube attendees uh they asked like what happens if ai replaces humans in the workplace uh it is not going to happen right what may happen is we may need reskilling so for example if you look at the call centers i mean if you have seen call centers in bangalore uh ten years back uh i traveled to catch a flight at two o'clock and i didn't find two o'clock in the midnight i mean early morning i didn't find any difference in the traffic at 2 a.m in the morning and 10 a.m in the morning and those were the days where bangalore was filled with heavy call center operations right and some of those operations obviously move to countries like uh philippines and so on so we we don't see that kind of traffic now ei is going to definitely replace certain type of jobs right so the chatbots are going to replace or reduce at least the human call center requirement okay and also if you want to if you look at there are many other robots the entire robotic process automation is for that so it is going to replace routine kind of tasks that we do for example i was talking to one of my student he at one of the companies and he says that today percent of the recruitment is happening through robots right so the chat bots uh like you know collecting the resume filtering the resume even conducting the interview is done by robots right only manager and above level the human intervention is happening if i want to hire a java programmer i don't want to waste my manager's time to hire a java program and that's the kind of call these so many companies have taken so it is going to have some impact but it is going to create jobs in other places so what is more important is that you need to uh your employees to give a very specific example if you look at i.t companies ten percent of about eight to ten percent of i.t uh workforce is software testing now software testing is heavily automated so fifty percent of the testing is automated so obviously the number of so from ten percent of the workforce you can easily cut it down to five percent other workflows right now what are you going to do with the remaining five person so what companies are doing is they are re-skilling them in ai testing right obviously we are developing a model you have to also test that model right and they are employing them right so it requires reskilling and it will open up also new type of jobs in fact there was a study which basically mentioned this is one of the world studies that 65 percent of the students who are in the middle school today class 5 will get into a job which doesn't exist today when they enter the job market 10 years down the line those jobs do not even exist today right so that means the skilling requirement for all these students who are in class five six today will be completely different so whatever courses we teach in say colleges need to be different because the market demand will be completely different thank you so for answering there's a question by sushmita singh she asked given that ai needs a lot of data to be fed before execution as a startup entrepreneur the company and the field we are trying to disrupt has only limited data available how can we use ai to make our services more efficient okay see the data issues exist everywhere whether you're talking about a big corporate if you go and ask amazon they will also talk about data issue right if you ask i'm working with a small entrepreneur he also talks about data issues right now it depends on the quality of data not the quantum of data right if you have good quality data you can come up with the model right and when you get additional data you can make the model better so every company so for example if i had to give an example of capital one who is every user of analytics and if you look at read their portal or you know magazines they say that they develop more than 100 models on a daily basis it is not that they are developing 100 new models they are revisiting their old models and refining them because now they have new data it is same for any startup or any entrepreneur right with the existing data you come up with the first model and when you get additional data you go and define the model make the model more and more powerful as you go right and that iteration that cycle is true whether you're a google or whether you're a you know small kirana sharp one thank you sir so there's a question by dr vara lakshmi she asks a i i ais about algorithms is important to know mathematics is it a must so uh it depends on whether you are trying to create a new algorithm or just mainly using an existing algorithm so if you look at ai uh the components of ai you have the business context right you need to ask the right question so if we go back to big pass by example they ask the right question right because that answer to that question is going to have a significant impact right i showed based on our own rough calculation we are talking about 40 crore revenue on a yearly basis right so you need to understand the business you need to understand the technology but you also need to understand the data science which is algorithm you need to understand what are the limitations of hulga right and obviously you cannot be expert in all three domains so knowledge of math actually the limitation of the algorithm with the technology and business context is always useful right you don't have to become a mathematician at least you need to know what is achieved through the algorithm and what are the limitations of that algorithm is very very important thank you sir sir there's a question by venue gotham he asks is it better to build your own algorithm or outsource it if we are not a tech company so it depends on the frequency at which you use algorithm if you are going to use that on a daily basis then it's better you build uh your own team and let us say i'm going to use once a year you can just outsource it so for example we currently i mean we did a project for one of the fmcg companies and they have a lot of sales people so this is a fmcg product let us say sham right and they go and try to sell the shampoo at different retailers this could be huge super store or a small kirana store or say pharmacy and so on now uh in a city like bangalore even if you have to make 20 kilometers you're not just making a round of 20 kilometers you're going visiting a shop the shop may be busy with the customers you're standing there and he has to give an order and all that at most you may visit about 15 uh shops in a day the question is which 15 shop right even if i take a banner cutter which is probably what say 20 odd kilometers in the 20 odd kilometers there are hundreds of stores but i know that i can visit only 20 stores to maximize my sales can you tell me which 20 sold now this one you're not going to run it every day i use an algorithm i have a model that model they have an app and every day the salesman looks at the app it tells you okay these are the stores you should visit today he just goes and visits right and next day he wakes up and opens his app and say okay these are the shows today you should visit now this algorithm is not changing on a daily basis this algorithm was developed and we revisit if we find that there is a new superstore in the same road now whether this algorithm is affected right so uh it depends and some of them may require frequent change some of them can be used for even one year i hope that answered the question yes it definitely did uh some maria miss maria would like to ask you a question alan newton miss maria you can unmute yourself and ask questions good morning sir good morning so my question is how we can achieve an explanable ai in medical domain okay so uh in fact we are working with a lot of hospitals now there are algorithms which are for explainable ai and there are algorithms which work as a black box so i can say white box and black box right white box algorithms will tell you why you took the distance so for example uh we developed a particular model to predict whether a customer will default or not right and the model will say that his profession is say i'm just picking up something liar and e current savings account balance or average balance in savings account in the last three months is 5000 rupees and the last two years is say 2 000 rupees and because of these three features and that's taking an example don't take it seriously i am not going to recommend giving loan of 10 lakh to this particular customer okay now i use the random force so i can relate i mean i mean say that model that i explained is say logistic regression it will tell me the risk also and the model will tell me if you have these features it will have a negative impact it will have these features you have a positive impact if i use a random forest model i cannot give this much of detail to explain why particular customer was denied alone okay so in certain areas healthcare is one of them you cannot i mean doctors will be very uncomfortable if you use unexplainable ai because i mean they have spent 10 years of their life learning things uh starting from mbbs md and for their specialists and so on now suddenly an algorithm says something okay for example we were you know trying to figure out whether a particular patient will uh reach a stage of cold blood right code blue it's a critical stage and the patients can die so they asked you know uh can you predict in advance whether this patient will uh get into code blue right now i cannot say yes no because the next thing the doctor is going to see that why are you saying that this patient will have code loop this patient will not have code so there are okay so uh so what uh we have is that there are certain type of industries that use explanable ai whereas in other industry i can use unexplainable a because it's not going to cost you much and it's not even unethical or something so for example if you go to europe and there are if you go into get into a supermarket and buy items there are a lot of uh you know self checkout counters let us say you buy apple right and you're standing in front of the machine you put the apple on the you know weighing machine and it will on the display it shows you three different apples all it has done is taken an image of that what you kept on the weighing scale and it knows it's an apple but probably it is not sure what variety of applications it will not show you a banana it will not show you a copy it will be an apple right now this is coming from unexplainable air because that algorithm is deep learning algorithm how does it matter even if it makes a mistake in display there is an option say that this is not it and even even manually enter right so explainable a is very important and in certain areas especially in healthcare you cannot use unexplained ai but there are large number of applications you don't care you don't have to be explained because it is not a risky decision that you are taking okay i hope that answers your question yes sir surely so there's a question by dr shilpi kush kulshestra she asks in which sector or industry ai will will never be able to work successfully or will be able to or will not be able to meet the industry requirements let me ask you a question there are a lot of uh you know uh matrimonial portals do you think i can manage relationships so i'll tell you my want a example uh four or five years back i used to get mail from a particular matrimonial site i don't know why and the message used to be uh 5 600 brides waiting for right and obviously i used to ignore those message and then they changed the tagline instead of saying 5 600 brides waiting for you the main said 5 600 soul mates waiting right now i want to know who are the soul mates so i went and clicked and observed that all those girls were from same locality and same community okay now it is not very difficult to figure out from where you are coming from because they know uh my frequent visits let us say i am visiting a particular city frequently i book my tickets at uh say make my trip or clear trip i so they know that there might be some link right i'm listening every month that's it maybe i have some relatives parents living there and they can make out from my name which community i belong right so that's where it is but then the problem with that thing was that that mail should have come at least 25 years back okay so my wife was very upset why are you getting mails if they have sent you these males 25 years back i would have escaped right so there are a lot of areas it is still difficult i mean people still recommend there are recommender system used even by matrimonial sites but i don't think uh it will work there and yeah so the complex world of human mind it will not work yes so it was really a very interesting numerous answer thank you so much so the last question for the session is when an autonomous tesla car hit the a random pedestrian during a test tesla was blamed not the human trust driver sitting inside and certainly not the algorithm itself but what if the program was created by dozens of different people and was also modified on the client side can the developer be blamed then so you know the developer alone cannot take the blame because in any of the system you have a project manager product manager test engineers and so on it is a failure of the entire organization right and uh remember any new uh system when you develop right you will have accidents right uh that has been uh the nature of innovation right so uh people that's why you always put a you know a human there while testing right maybe their test strategy was not right they their protocol they used for testing was not right okay so uh you have to blame the entire organization you cannot blame a single person and you know point out because of his specific mistake because probably the developer did what he or he was asked to do it then you have also project managers product managers test engineers so it's all failure of everybody right you cannot blame one person thank you sir thank you i hope it was helpful and for such a detailed informative and engaging uh session on artificial intelligence it was indeed of unforgettable and outstanding presentation uh we are very thankful that you have taken out time from your busy schedule to be part of this conference it's a matter of great privilege to have you with us today thank you so much sir thank you thank you all the best for rest of your conference and thank you to all of you bye dear participants now we will have a session by mr amrit lal bharatwash from cardiff university before we begin with the session i would like to brief you a little about our conference tomorrow we have our chancellor of jane deemed to be university as a keynote speaker then we have the actor and media personality mr prakash bilbari as a keynote speaker and the and mr parshu rahman a bcc uh bici pre president as one of our keynote speakers so please join the session at nine tomorrow and uh take at as much as benefit you can and there will be two plenary sessions one will be academic and when one will be on social entrepreneurs so please be part of the conference tomorrow at nine o'clock the conference will go up till 4 30. so please try to attend all these sessions and it is mandatory to fill the feedback after every session the feedback link will be posted so i'll post the feedback link so you can start giving your feedback on this session and after giving feedback on all the sessions you will be entitled for certificate of participation so before we begin with our second master class i would like to tell you that the session will be for one hour followed by q a for half an hour uh please post your questions in the chat box once the session is over and we will take it up and uh please keep your video on throughout the session it is mandatory to fill the feedback at the end of the session only then you will get the certificate of participation i'll give you uh i'll give you five minutes to fill your feedback on this session i'll just post the feedback link for you this is we will be posting the feedback link after amritsar's uh you know session so you can introduce amritsar by then sir is already joined so he'll be ready sure so we'll post the link of for both the session after amritsar's session thank you so much okay so our second speaker of the day is mr amrit lal bharatwaj and he will be enlightening on uh he will be enlightening us on the topic the need for a robust auditing regime mr amrit lal bharatwaj practiced as an accountant auditor from 1980 to 2003. after that he joined academia and for the first 14 years he has taught accountancy and finance to post graduate and final year undergraduates at carter business school cardiff university in parallel for past six years he has been the visiting lecturer at jane dean to be university bangalore and for last three years at zongren university of economics and law gohan he is also a guest mentor at the alacrity foundation wales uk which helps to launch startups he's a chartered certified accountant fellow of higher education academy and holds triple aggregated mba from an open university after the covet pandemic is over he intends to work and travel in various countries as a freelance lecturer with immense honor and respect i welcome mr amrit lal bharatipat to address our participants and attendees over to you sir uh good morning good morning everybody can you hear me yes sir we can hear you i can't see myself on the screen uh why is that well here we are okay um just bear with me please give me a minute to start yourself no problem now you should all be able to see me and not my word document yes oh so we cannot see any document right now no i don't want you to see the document okay you can just see me yes yes sir we can see you all right here we go ladies and gentlemen and a very good morning or afternoon i'm not too sure right i will take questions at the end of my talk so please save them till later let's begin i will divide my talk in two parts the first part will be about the need for a robust audit regime the second part will be about project management in my view a robust audit regime and a good project and good project management skills are essential prerequisites for the successful success of autumn as an introduction of i will first give a general background as to what has happened around us in recent years and then moving forward offer suggestions as to what we could do to encourage foreign and domestic investment in our economy so what is anthem my personal take on autumn neighbor is as follows the primary object objective of ultimate is to make bharat a self-reliant nation the secondary objective is to create jobs the rationale is that these twin objectives will enable us to increase our gdp that is wealth create wealth which will permeate across our society uh it is said that not too long ago china and india started the race to develop at the same point in time china has powered way ahead of india how has she managed to do this i will come back to this later for the moment we need to ask ourselves why have we lagged behind where are we at now we are painfully aware that we need to catch up and keep up real fast china does not want to see the rise of a strong competitor in her neighborhood now this is a normal reaction and we shouldn't be surprised by it at all any businessman anywhere in the world will tell you that he or she will destroy the competition is simply the survival of the fittest a doggy dog mentality particularly in the cutthroat cutthroat world of business and we need to take that on on board and internalize it we need to get our brains in gear and start motoring though we are doing that at the moment we need to develop a more dynamic momentum i will now delve into some history as to how the tiger economies and china took off economically these countries follow the east asian model which entails foreign companies making technological and commercial investment in their economies and engaging in joint research and development programs south korea and taiwan develop capabilities on a foundation of manufacturing competence based on the low tech production and then progress to higher levels of capability such as design and new product development through their own equipment manufacturer production for international firms however the flow of technology and development of capabilities are not automatic economists refer to spillovers of know-how from foreign investment and collaboration with which requires a huge effort by domestic firms similarly china encouraged multinationals to invest in our economy joint r d collaboration enabled transfer of technology it was the acquisition of this technological capability by the domestic companies which are still state-owned that has enabled china to become an innovative and a competitive economic powerhouse now eighty percent of china's fdi is technology software and hardware which has continued to grow over the years but and pay take note of this fact but in 2005 it amounted to 72 billion u.s dollars which was 10 times more than india's fdi inflows and that's when they took the lead and started to race ahead of us fast forward to 2020 china attracted 149 billion u.s dollars compared to india's 64 billion us dollars now i'm gonna take you there and i'm going to show you my screen and how do i do that be with me please i'm going to share my screen and you know i don't want just just pay with me a second please it's not the diagram i'll show you oh sorry right um we'll just share my screen with you right can you see this this is a united nations conference on creative development can you all see that yes so we can see right i'm going to go straight to page 30 very quickly and this uh table shows the fdi inflows in the top 20 host economies in 1819 and billions of dollars and in brackets is the 18 ranking now the dark green is 19 and the light green is 18. so we have india here in the 12th position and what i want to take what i want to point out to you is hong kong was fourth netherlands was third and china was second i am also trying to locate singapore which i can't for some reason see here yeah here we are singapore is five so china singapore and hong kong is what i want you to bear in mind for the moment so i'm going to come out of this and go back to go back to another and i'll go ahead and share my screen again and you should see the times of india can you all see that yes sir excellent now it says here the latest world investment report showed that india's fdi rose by 25 to 64 billion in a year that's 2020. um so let's have a look so we were eight in 1918 and now we have figures for 19 and 20 20. uh 21 is work in progress at the moment so we shall go there now this shows that that we are fifth now and it's gone from 51 to 64. so that's the 25 increase which is this percentage here but if you look at singapore it attracts 91 but it's gone up to 114 that's almost twice as much hong kong has gone has gone up from 74 to 119 china's got 149. you know what's happening in hong kong see if you add that number 149 to that number it tells a very different story compared to where we are think about it all right let's look at the story um between 2015 and 2020. for these four years it's really a flat line 44 44 say 40 and 43 if you average the amount it's about it's about 40 000 at 40 40 billion and now it's jumped from 50 to 64. however there are outflows which are remain pretty flat as well in the last four years so if you take the net difference between 64 minus 11 the number isn't that pretty um and then when you look at the stock of fdi uh i must be honest i'm not very clear what the word stock means but i'm assuming this is the cumulative total of the fdi's uh inwards versus outwards and these figures are again uh from the same development report 21. and 20 in 2000 we had 16 billion coming in and 1.8 1.7 going out and then from 2000 to 2010 we've jumped from 16.3 to 205 205 came in and 100 went out so the net gain is just a hundred and now the net gain appears to be 500 minus 200 about 300. now if you take the difference between that number and that number 2005 that's 205 minus 96. i make that 108 and from 2010 to 2020 we've we we we've gone from there to there so you know we we are optimistic on our long-term growth but my point is simply this if you look at the fdi per capita for people in hong kong and singapore and the per capita fdi net fda for for each one of us in india it really doesn't i mean i wouldn't i wouldn't jump jump with joy um so we need to take that with with um with a pinch of salt um have i stopped shooting the screen could somebody tell me please stop hello hello are we back apostle sound i can't hear you okay right okay let's get back um can you just see me now just me alone okay yeah okay we can see but not my word document okay um right india opened our economy in the 1990s and has made real progress albeit not as fast as china there are several reasons for this now in the limited time i have i have a lot to get through today i will deal with the most pressing ones so bear with me please but first and foremost let's consider the kind of questions a potential investor asks himself when considering investing in a country other than other than his own what sort of factors would influence his decision to invest what i'm saying is a lot of fdi's like going into singapore hong kong and china far far more than us there must be some reasons and it's these reasons or factors if you like that i want to explore with you i could be wrong i could be right perhaps we can have a discussion afterwards firstly the first factor is is that country at war with its neighbors or is is it a nation that's bogged down in civil unrest an investor would certainly not want to invest in war-torn countries like syria or yemen as it would be far too risky secondly an investor would compare the rate of return on his investment in a foreign country vis-a-vis the same investment in his own home country such as say the united states or european country a country which is politically and economically stable and has a strong and an independent judiciary thirdly the investor will want to establish at the very outset how much of the profits will he be able to repatriate back to the home country for distribution to shareholders as dividends fourthly an investor will evaluate how favorable the tax regime is to initially induce him to invest and then to expand operations with subsequently is last and perhaps the most important of all is there a pool of skilled labor and the cost of this labor force now these are just a few reasons that spring to mind though there are several more now i would like to discuss these factors in the context of bharath in so far as the national security is concerned the enemy is at the gate coupled with some unsavory elements within our borders now i'm going to leave it at that and let you draw your own conclusions politically bonit is a okay she's a vibrant democracy with problems that are freely aid and discussed without fear and this she is no different when compared with other healthy democracies around the world hence this is not an issue over several past years foreign companies have invested in bars suggesting that rates of return on investments have been greater than the rates of return in their own home countries if the rates achieved in bahrain were poorer or negative than their domestic economies why would they then bother investing in our economy investors have also been able to repatriate profits though this has from time to time become a political issue our tax regimes are or were initially favorable to the investor but in my opinion and it is my opinion alone we have ruined things for ourselves by introducing retrospective text legislation as a consequence this has caused disappointment and deep resentment amongst foreign multinationals that have already invested in bath and perhaps discourage others from investing uh in fact the government recently lost an important tax case in a foreign jurisdiction resulting in an exceptionally huge fine as this was still due and outstanding there was a real threat of seizure of governments bank accounts and assets held abroad this is firstly very embarrassing for the government's image abroad and secondly very damaging to the perception held by foreign investors of doing future business with bharath as the greater inflows into singapore and hong kong in china we have for many years now produce an exceptionally brilliant pool of skilled workers who regrettably and to a huge disadvantage and cost have chosen to work in the states or europe they had top american and european multinational companies nasa silicon valley and ivy league universities and a host of smes as a result of this disastrous exodus of talent we are left with a small pool of exceptionally talented individuals we must somehow arrest this brain drain and attempt to reverse it in addition and going forward we need to exponentially increase the size of the stellar pool as we hurdle towards a world of digital india artificial intelligence just as uh just said um shortly a short while ago automation fintech and the like we need to revise and refocus our energies to turn up a hugely different kind of graduate with graduate attributes than the ones we we are turning out at this point in time it is this that is that will become the driving force at the heart of atom nilbar which is a vision and for that vision to become a reality it will be a young and talented labor force that is going to make it happen that is make it in india a living breathing reality feeling this other nerve will be nothing more than a mirage as the late american president john f christie kennedy once said ask not what your country can do for you but what can you do for your country if other liberal is to happen is bharata's youth that is going to make it happen now the government's new framework of education policies are is cognizant of this requirement universities and technical colleges must rise to this challenge now we must benchmark our qualifications to world-class standards if we are to attract the best foreign companies to invest in bharata one important area is auditing and i'll deal with this in in some detail now similar to international financial reporting standards there are international auditing standards the above two standards have enhanced consistency and comparability of reporting between companies in the same sector and between countries particularly publicly quoted companies on stock markets around the world this is this in turn has improved transparency and corporate social responsibility now these auditors auditing standards reflects best accounting practice to ensure high quality audits ensures engagements and explore ways to broaden the auditor's agility capabilities and to deepen relationships with stakeholders to achieve globally relevant progressive and operable standards so our graduates need to learn them past professional standard exam examinations with a globally recognized accounting body and bodies such as the acca to demonstrate that they have attained a world-class qualification and then apply them rigorously and religiously as part and parcel of the company's administrative procedures we need we need to have a strong self-regulatory professional body of accountants come auditors we need a professional body that oversees maintains and demonstrates the highest standards of professional integrity exclusive members permanently who breach the court of professional ethics it is this that will inspire foreign domestic investors to invest in indian companies to make it in india now as rational beings we would only invest in safe blue chip companies that will pay as dividends and see the value of our shares go up in time safe blue chip companies are innovative companies highly profitable they reinvest their profits in research and development and thus stay ahead of the competition these companies also have good corporate governance meaning they comply with the laws of the their jurisdiction for example are complying with company law and tax legislation institute's excellent csr are operationally kind to the environment by minimizing wastage and encourage recycling for example toyota lexus now make cars that are almost 97 recyclable electric cars tesla jaguar land rover and volvo manufacturers that are increasingly going green now i want to briefly visit a few recent cases where both internal and external auditing appears to have failed spectacularly satyam there was a case where an individual over all accounting systems for his own personal gain the chairman of satyam um b ramalingam resigned confessing that he had manipulated the accounts to the tune of 14 162 crores almost 3 billion u.s dollars at the time in several forms it was fraud which misled the market and other shareholders by lying about the company's financial health basic facts such as revenues operating profits address liabilities and cash balances were grossly inflated to show the company in good health kingfisher airlines the company never made a profit since it was launched in 2005. an overbearing chairman always seeing and controlling everything and listening to no one except himself he simply enriched himself and talked banks out of millions jet airways now that's an interesting one now lenders to jet airways eventually referred the company to national uh company law tribunal for bankruptcy proceeding with tests of 1.2 billion us dollars i will never know what really happened that led to the accumulation of debt which happens over a period of time not overnight a seemingly successful company suddenly disappeared off the radar screen these things just don't happen they are engineered by design and fraud it's not taking off again after a year or a year a jet ms committee apprentice has approved the revival plan submitted by a consortium to invest 600 crore to repay creditors to acquire 90 percent of the in the carrier happy landings cafe coffee day a rising entrepreneur who tragically ended his life mr siddharth's cafe coffee day franchise was india's largest coffee chain it had about 1750 cafes around the country and some outlets in countries like malaysia nepal and egypt he borrowed too much money too soon to fund rapid rapid expansion a classic case of mike geary and in turn inability of the business to service its borrowings punjab bank india's second largest statement bank uncovered 1.8 billion dollars scam single linked to a single mumbai branch the fraud amounted nearly a third of the bank's market value and 50 chinese profits for the last quarter of 2017. the bank said the federal and transactions appeared to benefit a handful of customers this could have only happened with the collusion of key bank employees that's my opinion navi modi 49 is wanted by authorities in india for allegedly taking part in the country's biggest ever fraud on a state-run bank and now fighting expedition back to india the audacity of the man to keep a straight face until lies under oath beggars belief indian state banks have been struggling in recent years stunned by a certain unpaid loans that that debt that bad debt has made it more difficult for banks to increase lending to businesses that could accelerate the economic growth of asia's third largest economy in most of these cases there was a dysfunctional internal audit department external auditors were coerced hoodwinked or perhaps even bullied or all three to issue clean audit reports now the key individuals in some of these cases were the de facto ceo and the main shareholder and were thus able to orchestrate the fraud unchallenged on a breathtaking scale but that still does not absorb the external auditors from carrying out a proper audit if anything they ought to have highlighted this clear conflict of interest of those in charge of the company were also the main body of shareholders of the company i would stress that the failure of these companies was compounded by the complete and utter failure of external launches and just in destroying their responsibilities from what i can tell these businesses for the better part of their lifespans were simply not going concerns so why didn't the external auditors ring alarm bells or qualify their audit reports was their equity agreements bought or was it that they did not want to lose the annual audit fee did their professional bodies exclude them from membership for failing to protect the interests of the shareholder no they didn't and why not dare i ask a slap on the wrist will not do no one was sent to send to jail for any substantial period of time three accenture is what is required if the investors domestic and foreign are to have any confidence in our companies and that's when the fdi's influence will increase in leaps and bounds unless we do that it is it ain't happening guys i'll tell you that now now now here's the problem that i'd like you to consider what is a foreign investor to make of these few cases that i've mentioned would he or she be encouraged to invest in india i hardly think so i would like to repeat that our auditors internally external birth sleep on the job and were easily bullied or were too afraid to lose the audit and suffer loss of income or perhaps all three now this is what happens internal external auditors seem to sit on their hands let things right and watch the ships sink slowly over the years and then suddenly when the companies go under they sure the shareholders expect the government to launch the light boats the plane game starts the media circus has a field day cases languishing course for years plaintiffs and defenders grow all waiting for their cases to be heard culprits flee abroad have a time of their lives more time and way time and money is wasted by the government to have them extreme extradited back to borrow and then and then we have to ensure that their human rights are not infringed etc etc etc a sad state of affairs but true some of our nationalized banks have huge non-performing laws which means in plain english that they will never be paid back some politely call it toxic debt yes it's the sure points of toxic debt for savers and depositors this was money that was lent to individuals who essentially set up shell companies to divert money to themselves and then tease the banquet catch me if you can at issue now these rogues then hire lawyers to muddy the waters and so the cases go on for years and years and years uh all of this orchestrated madness can and must be awarded if we institute a strong and robust auditing regime and a strong and an independent judicial system a judicial system that is responsive in dispensing timely justice timely is the operative word here one that protects intellectual property protects patents ensure payments of royalties to foreign multinationals and prevents reverse engineering we need to completely overhaul our mindset now i'd like to give you a quote he said none can destroy iron but its own rust can none can destroy iron iron but its own risk can likewise none can destroy a person but its own mindset can so a seismic shift has to take place in the way we transact and conduct business we should not just be seen to be honest but are completely honest both in our business dealings and in our relationships with all stakeholder holders we need to step up the shadow economy for the greater good of the country now this is what i think needs needs to be done if we are to increase our fdi's vis-a-vis in comparison with singapore and hong kong which is just two islands here we are we are a fantastic nation all right but it's not all doom and gloom we have fantastic companies too bengalurus where you guys are electronic city is just one example just one example they earn billions of us dollars every year and pay their taxes to now we need to have such businesses and science parks in every major city throughout bharat though this is happening it needs to happen at a much faster rate the nucleus of these companies needs to grow exponentially if we ought to increase our gdp and realize the vision of atom network we can do it but only if i say only if if we inspire confidence both in our domestic and overseas investors that they are backing a horse that is sure to win the race and not follow the first hurdle now this this takes me to the second part of my talk i want to talk about project management because other nurbur is essentially about managing joint projects with foreign multinationals as or managing standalone domestic projects remember china and taiwan and south korea is is collaboration in the r d area and projects have to be managed managed uh so but before i start i would like to give you a few examples of what the trouble is with managing projects projects notoriously take longer to finish and cost far more than the original allocated budget the channel tunnel was supposed to cost 2.6 billion pounds but ended up costing 15 billion that's more than five times the original estimate london underground's extension to the jubilee land was estimated to cost three and a half billion but ended up costing four times that estimate that is 14 billion now here's a very interesting one in 1957 engineers estimated that the sydney opera house would cost seven and seven million australian dollars and would be finished by 1963. so it's gonna cost seven million australian dollars and would be finished in six years but then they had to scale it down it was too big a scale downwards and cost 102 million australian dollars and opened in 1973 that's more time 14 times the original estimate and 10 years behind schedule and there's a funny one in 1969 the mayor of montreal announced that the olympic games would cost 120 million canadian dollars and he said can no more have a deficit that a man can have a baby yet the roof alone was finished 13 years after the games at a cost of 120 million canadian dollars just the roof now moving forward aircraft carriers now this is where india is at we want our aircraft carriers we want submarines nuclear submarines we want jet fighters yes i need to tell you you read the papers and you know the score and the scale of the problems out they just jet fighter how many years has it taken and what percentage of his components including the engine is indigenously made that said it is now the government's top priority project bengalurus metro train could somebody tell me later where we are at with it i know it's it's now it's now running and so we'll see um well we'll discuss it later so it said bennett declared to us that to us all that ultimate birth success will depend on our graduates being thoroughly trained in project management that's the need of vr now one one just one such training call which is prince2 now prince stands for project in a controlled environment version two it's a world-class qualification and do you know an average person can do it within four to six weeks of intensive learning enables one to progress onto the next logical step to a job project management the current stage of learning so i'm just going to show you there is the princeton manual that's my dog gate copy and then once you've done that edge oil which is which is just built around prince2 so what is prince2 now prince2 is a methodology that is widely used in the majority of companies and government and government organizations around the world particularly western countries and we need to be at the same level of competence that's going to inspire confidence in us why because we will be able to speak the language of project management as our western partners now companies and government departments now routinely routinely as a matter of routine and bad prints too but they tailor it to their specific needs and goals and what's the result all round efficiency and the funny thing is the prince2 was a government a british government idea when it was first released but was quickly adopted and embedded in german companies long before the british company started to adopt its methodology result german companies are super efficient compared to most companies around the world ah but so are japanese companies but they follow their own kaizen method which is also cleanly adopted in tandem with princeton around the world americans have their own equivalent now the beauty about this this particular methodology is that companies who have adopted princeton nearly always i'm not saying always nearly always deliver their projects ahead of schedule and within budget they achieve bulky objectives prince2 is the product of thousands of failed and successful projects is the distillation of best practice a tried and tested method failure is not an option now i will shortly run through the basics of principle to give you a flavor of what it involves now using prince2 the whole project is thought through from start to finish this is to avoid rear view mirror project management when you say oh hell we should have done this instead of that now hindsight is a wonderful thing but it is the net result of cost overruns and delayed delivery dates if not outright disasters so let's briefly look at the principle structure it's a flexible method and tailored to suit the type and size of project the princeton method addresses project management with four integrated elements of principles themes processes and and the project environment there are seven principles all all are to be applied for it to be a prince2 project the seven themes explain the specific treatment required for project management's disciplines and why they're necessary the seven processes describe a progression from the pre-project activity of getting started through the stages of the project life cycle to the final act of project closure each process has a checklist of recommended activities products and related responsibilities the project environment organizations want a consistent approach to managing projects and tailored prints to to create their own project management method the method is then embedded into the organization's way of working let's quickly run through the seven principles one continued business justification what does that mean make sure that the project is worth doing at every stage of the project if it isn't stop learn from experience lessons are sought learned recorded and acted upon throughout the life of the project meaning what don't keep repeating the same mistakes define roles and responsibilities meaning defines the roles and responsibilities of the business end user and the supplier managed by stages meaning what the project is planned monitored and controlled stage by stage five managed by exception meaning what the project has defined tolerances for each project objective to establish limits of authority if tolerances are exceeded the matter is escalated higher up for a decision to prevent cost overruns focus on products meaning what define the end product in particular is quality requirements and then finally and probably the most important taylor prints to do the project don't follow it slavishly but intelligently now the seven themes answer the following pertinent questions why are we doing this project define the business scheme is it a commercially viable project who is going to deliberate the organization that is a project management team who is going to do what what is it that we are going to deliver define specification of the end product and quality attributes plans how are we going to do it how much is it going to cost when are we required to deliver it by and then prince2 proceeds with a series of apple plans sequentially one after the other stage by stage what if something goes wrong consider potential risks how will risks be managed and mitigated what is the impact of the change what will be the impact of the change to the baseline product consider unanticipated problems with the end product not meeting the required specifications where are we now where are we going should we carry on these three questions are asked continuously in order to monitor the progress of the project to ensure it is delivered within budget within its time frame now i shouldn't bother going into the process of the business environment as they build up on what i've just described but in much greater detail so there you have the gist of prince2 i cannot recommend it strongly enough please learn it and pass the practitioner exam and then go on to do the agile project management i'm addressing i'm addressing the students out there so to conclude then i cannot stress enough that we need a pakka robust audit regime if we are to be trusted as reliable and honest business partners reading a very popular core textbook on ethics or passing professional auditing exams will not make you ethical it will probably be a combination of your education but more more importantly your upbringing that will define your ethics and develop your personal moral compass that will guide you through the challenges of autumn derby now out of nurburgring projects using finite resources we do not have infinite resources we have finite resources we have budgets and that precious resources that are not to be squandered through carelessness indifference or just plain incompetence projects cost millions if not billions a robust order regime needs to be in place failing which we are doomed time is of the essence we need to catch up and keep up you are the future of birth make sure you can proudly beat your chest and look your grandchild in the eye if he or she one day asks you hey granddad a grandma what did you do for bharatnatha stop making excuses this man encourage your loins now our grandchildren should inherit a bath from us that they and their subsequent generations can build on and sought to just exalted to the skies not one that is broken and down on that this has been happening for far too long it needs to stop we need to turn the tide allow me to quote the great and good now in the fullness of time when it is our turn to give we must in turn plant gardens that we may never eat the fruit of which will benefit the generations to come that's anna narayan murthy i'd like to quote my hero abdul kalamji again he said excellence is a continuous process and not an accident he also said if you fail never give up because f-a-i-l means first attempt in learning and is not the end e and d means effort never dies if you get known as an answer remember no means next opportunity and finally i have always been very confident very upbeat about the future potential of india i think it's a great country with great potential brother tata that's what authenticity says and so save your shy hand so i'm happy to take your questions now i will produce a fact sheet with links and i will pull i'll send this over to jane university and they can send it forward to the delegates by the way i would thoroughly recommend that you see dr terence talk that he delivered at the last ju conference and they'll provide you with a link he talks about the ecosystem and his discussion with a japanese professor that needs to be built if autumn autumn nilburg is to become a reality so jayhen questions got 44 chats oh my god voice isn't clear i'm sorry um right may have your questions please i can't hear you sound yes sir yes sir all right we've got your son back it seems to me that i've traumatized you please ask questions um anything that you disagree with me or well uh the first question or i would like to ask you is can students at undergraduate level complete these courses prince2 and agile management what are the prerequisites to study these courses none whatsoever just plain common sense you can connect to this i'll send you the links there are so many organizations that offer this course you buy the manual if you want my strategy buy the manual learn it thoroughly and then do the multiple choice exam you have the foundation exam which is dead easy then you have the practitioners exam which is a lot more difficult and that's a two and a half hour exam and if you pass the foundation you can keep it forever if you pass the practitioner exam you can keep it for three years and then you have to reset the exam a shorter exam to retain the qualification and before you go on to lean management and sigma and green belts and black belts you don't have to do any of that and then i mean this is a book that you could buy through amazon and read it yourself once you've done this you can then go back to the same organization and the the lead organization is the ex los axe and os and they will do the hr program project management exam as well you see at least you see when you write i'm a princeton practitioner on your on your cv it tells the it tells the employer this person can think logically this person if i were to entrust him to do a project will think it through start to finish before he begins he will iron out all the problems even before he starts and that's the advantage not just well we've got a budget of 10 million or 100 million uh let's let's go out go out and build the bridge and see what happens so you build a bridge and then you realize it can only carry a tonnage a weight load of so much but then you know what the indian army has to transport his tanks across this bridge and the bridge can't take the weight now that sort of nonsense the end product the quality and what it's designed to do it's very very important has to be thought well in advance before you start so really it's it's that easy anybody with plain common sense can do it you don't have to be a university graduate or anything like that okay thank you sir uh in participants anybody who would like to ask the question please you can raise your hand uh one question is asked by dr kiran prabhu he asked industry is applying safe scaled agile is it advisable to do this certification sorry i didn't get that question i'm reading this yeah industry is applying scaled agile safe safe is it advisable to do this certification you know to be honest i haven't i've never heard of it safe did you say so i can unmute uh um i don't know i really don't know how i don't know how it compares with prince2 uh i'm very aware of prince john and joel sir good afternoon can you hear me okay yes i can yeah scale the jail concept i think it's the next form of agile uh i find this application used extensively in i.t industries specifically uh what happens normally is like i don't know about manufacturing so i i don't have much insights into it but in it industry uh safe agilis are becoming more of more um more immortal more important uh for the reason that you know there's a lot of parallel activities so just wanted to understand your views but that's okay i mean if you don't have information like i just wanted to understand you know you know what is the uh right okay and can i just ask answer your question from another angle i said prince2 has been around since the since the late 60s it started in the i.t industry and it developed it's a flexible system it's tried and tested it's working so if you think think of learning as a pyramid like i always like to say you know prince2 is a foundation and then you have these specialist programs and probably safe is the one that you've just mentioned is towards the apex of the pyramid am i right so that's primarily in the iit industry but prince2 can be applied in any organization but it forces the people forces people to think in a structured and a sensible way and that's the advantage uh the the the thrust of my talk is how do we get the fdis to increase when will we start to overtake the inflow of fbi's into bharat which are greater than say singapore or hong kong because china is taking control i don't i don't want to get too political because this is not a talk on politics this is a talk on auditing and and project management but if you combine the inflows that are going into china and hong kong um in 2005 there were 10 times ahead of us and now that although the gap is closing but they're still miles ahead of us and how are we to get people to trust us how are we going to get people to work with us one we need we need fantastic auditing regimes you know we have to have proper rule of law very strong judiciary so that people have faith in us you know we can't keep on moving the gold poles around come in in west then you're like we realize oh these guys are making a lot of profit they're repatriating profits will pass the tax law and back dated and it's called retrospective tax legislation you cannot do that people when people plan to invest their plan to invest five 10 15 years ahead in a country and if you keep changing chopping and changing your rules they'd rather go to an economy which is politically stable and has a strong judiciary if anything goes wrong they can go to court and get timely justice not like the way we are functioning at the moment ideas say you know i'm a very very very very proud indian and you know but then you know we should have the capacity to look at ourselves in the mirror and say yes you know this these are our strengths these are our weaknesses we must build upon our strengths and overcome our weaknesses and this is what i'm saying two things we can do in the short term is really improve the audit function internal audit and external order our external auditors have to be ruthless if they are to serve these shareholders but where the shareholder is also the the ceo there's a clear conflict of interest and this is how you get this nonsense and secondly in the short term the quickest way is rather if we did proper good structured courses like prince stew and then all the computer languages that denise ji was talking about earlier all of that is needed in in digital india so the one was when i mentioned the graduate attributes you know we need to look at the syllabus that we're teaching the need of the r is is something else and this is what i'm saying that universities and technical colleges must take up the challenge yeah it's no good i don't know we keep teaching michael porter and michael porter's five forces i think that is so old can i move on unless the nation said with artificial intelligence you know people are going to be made redundant and they have to be re-skilled in ai to do that you have to learn you have to learn coding languages now at allequity where i'm a guest mentor the first thing to do with this with their entrepreneurs is teach them coding languages and the kind of technical entrepreneurs tech entrepreneurs not technical tech entrepreneurs who are really switched on they they're producing apps working with ai and that's the way the world is going i mean you only look at your apple phone you go through and i'll give you another example like china has recently started as digital digital currency not not cryptocurrencies digital currencies the fiat currencies now uh often uh adar card is fantastic really really fantastic we need to tweak it improve it and that's the way to go that's the way ais needs to go and all the other examples that denishi gave earlier but it comes back to us the the ball is in the court of the universities and technical colleges what is it that we're teaching you know i i think what we're teaching even even in britain um we haven't caught up yet um it's only it's only uh institutions outside the universities that are that are really pushing pushing um artificial intelligence and coding languages and things like prince2 or agile and so on and so forth that's what we need to do would like to ask you a question you can ask can you hear me yes again loud and clear yeah sir actually i want you to ask you were talking about the growth of fti and you compared how india is lagging behind and comparison to china and hong kong all this but sir this median india problems do you think these are possible and can be an um alternative for opening up with opportunities for indian entrepreneurs or newcomers yes i agree but you know to do things you need capital um an entrepreneur i can tell you from my experience of the past 30 years have limited resources so you have to form partnerships now either you form domestic partnerships and if you can't then you have to join hands with a foreign company and they will provide you with a capital but coupled with your brilliant ideas you can take it forward we have to open our economy and really liberalize it and that's what china and all these tiger economies have done for the last 30 years we just we just started this in 1990s all i'm saying is we need to scale it up but we need to change the the the the business environment the ecosystem that dr chiron talked about in his talk uh i don't know if you how many of you saw that um the talk that he gave last week was very relevant there is a lot that needs fixing if i may use that word that needs to be fixed before before the fdi's the foreign investors start to take confidence in us and it needs to happen quickly and in the meantime behind behind the scenes we the universities and technical college must start teaching things that that really enable us to achieve the goal of digital india we have to we have to rethink our syllabus syllabi plural oh there are four questions uh dr oliver bright wanted to ask a question uh yes sir so there's a question uh miss uh anila bashbay would like to ask you a question and you can unmute yourself and ask the question alan muther mom you can unmute yourself i'm afraid i can't hear anything no no so she can speak now ma'am yes mom mom you can ask your question mom i'm lucky to have amraji you know very accessible good afternoon namaste thank you thank you so much for the session uh good question yes uh what i would want to ask is of course you are a very important component of all of us and the way we design the program but when we run programs on entrepreneurship and we have students who have different interests say someone is looking at food business someone is looking at real estate or energy uh someone is just looking at uh just stock market right uh how do how or when do you think in the program you know i've of course had this conversation with you early also but i thought we should bring back this topic uh since there are a whole lot of senior faculty members also out here how and when in this program should uh you know should this project management courses be introduced because the importance is higher when you're running a business the knowledge is important when you are uh studying this course so could you just give us some insight into how to blend it in into the course i would start on day one i'm not exaggerating that i wish i'd come across it years ago you see invariably well no matter what business you go into every challenge is a project that you have to and you need to have certain ideas in the background at the back of your mind or on the front of your mind one as i said the first thing is is it a viable business idea regardless of what what business you want to go into whether it's real estate or starting a new restaurant so start from week one and pedal with everything else um you know i i'm thinking straight off the cuff now um needs deeper thinking deeper thought you know if i'd be teaching them prince2 in the morning i'll be teaching them a coding language in the afternoon and at the end of three months they will be doing external exams which are recognized the world over so they know they've got a world-class qualification right you know we can it's not a point of getting them to read a manual and then they set their own internal exam that is fine but it won't be recognized around the world when you're talking to a foreign company they've done prince2 and you've done prince2 when he says project manager or a work package work package in princeton has a specific meaning at the end of this book there's a glossary there's a small dictionary of the language that's used in project management we should be speaking the same language not talking with our wires crossed i thought you meant this but i thought this was that no we have to be speaking the same language it's so you know i'll give you i tell you how how specific this book is the word organization which is spout with a zed not an s this is how specific they are organization not with an s which is english and z is american um but to answer the question we should start as soon as possible and prepare our students to do external exam like microsoft has its own certification okay it still has his own certification it is it it it it is it it uh one what has when a potential employer looks at the cv and he says wow this guy said prince true protection exam he's done python he's done his this other according language and that particular according language this is great you know this is just the guy i want you know uh he's not going to start looking at how much work he's done how much charitable work is done um it's commendable but it doesn't it doesn't carry weight at the end of the day it's your skills that you bring to the table skills that you can hit the ground running away and you know you can be trusted with a project and you only come back to your boss and say uh the guy will say okay i'm gonna let you spend so much on the buildings so much of the product equipment and so much on your employers and so on and so on here's the job get on with it and you only go back to your employer if you've exceeded the tolerance limits of five percent of 10 percent for each particular section otherwise you get get on with the work you see this this this we have a hierarchy uh in our organization we have to run to the guy at the top sir can i do this sir can i do that sir can i do it sir can i breathe yeah that's nonsense we need flat organizations we need people who have who can be trusted and that's where i'm coming from and that's what happens in the west it's flat organizations you're given a job specification you give enough budget you're told to go out and build a bridge or build a hospital or a school this is your budget and it's got to be delivered in 18 months if there's any slippage i want to know in fact i did a course with microsoft practical uh project management this fantastic sort of software that you can use you can put all your parameters in it and monitor them day-to-day in real time virtually that's the sort of thing we should be learning at university if not at college even in high school yes because these are just simply common sense ideas they really are you know we have budgets we have limited finite resources and if we seem to be efficient delivering delivering projects within the time frame and within the budget it will inspire people to invest for this it will inspire people to divert the fda's going to singapore and hong kong towards india that's what i'm banging on about this morning how do we how do we persuade these people to divert their fbi's into india if we have the legal force we have a labor force we are we are fantastic don't underestimate this very very all the need is to just re-evaluate what they're teaching change the syllabus and away we go and you'll see the results within 18 months two years very well yes thank you so much thank you so much thank you so much uh so there's uh we will take up the last question of the session there's a question by one of our student divya sony she asked should we go for self-study or coaching if coaching which one would you suggest self-study and if you suggest self-study which books shall we go for that is a very difficult question and i speak as a lecturer um everybody learns in a different ways people like me you know love to sit in a room like this with a book it's and i only go to my lecture or my professor if i'm a problem there are others who want to be coached um the experience we just set up paper published sorry this was in the news yesterday that one third of students in the uk nearly dropped out last year because they hated online teaching one-third they want classroom teaching face-to-face teaching so it would appear that most people want to be in a classroom where they can interact with the lecturer at the end of the lecture you can at the end of the lecture you can go to the professor and say i didn't understand that but can you explain that and it's done understood rather than you walking around with when you're studying on your own you know there isn't a one answer that really it really depends upon you and how you learn you know are you a pragmatic student are you a reflector and all those things come into play i really there isn't any one answer but i think if if you're in a classroom and this is my opinion again you know the lecturer can go around the class and say right where are you at with your project now i'll give you an example when i teach something like prince2 or give them a taster flip for institute i break up the class into four groups group a b right i want you guys to build a hospital a not-for-profit organization i want you guys to build an airport which must be run on a commercial basis and then i say to these guys uh i want you to build a school and i tell these guys i want you to build an army tank and you know this is the project tell me what the quality requirements are i'll give you a budget what do you think the problems are going to be what are the risks how will you mitigate them it forces them to think and then they do a presentation so the work the students are at the heart of learning and then you give them a different project to do a couple of weeks later and they start thinking and how do we do projects in profit making organizations how do we do projects in non-profit making organizations and here is a complex project how can i tailor it to what we want now building a tank is tailoring very specific and if i say i i want you to build a hospital and they'll say yes what kind of a hospital is it is it a general hospital or is it going to be a specialist hospital heart surgery or is it going to be a maternity hospital you know so it forces them to think to come back to me and say and this is when i go around the closet right okay what do you think what does bangalore need how many maternity hospitals has it gone is the population increasing is it decreasing i don't tell me do we would we not would it not be better to build in the rural area and and and reduce the infant mortality rate in rural areas and it forces them to think to ask questions but if you stand in front of a class and just talk down to students and say you will do this and you will do this learn up the first three chapters on that manual and i'll and you and you'll set an exam you learn in parent fashion and you regurgitate the the the manual uh historic exams are not a test of memory exams are about critical thinking it's your ability to think and that's what we need to encourage um did i answer your question so i would like to ask you a question oh please do ask me as many questions as you like no so actually the question is what do you think about the future of education now because of covid we started with online classes but as a pro as a teacher and as a lecturer i feel that when you have an online class you somehow uh like you know lose that connect between students like you know you're not able to connect with them the way you are able to connect with them and deliver better when it's a physical classroom so what do you think like what is the what will be the future it will be like a disconnected future where the teachers will be teaching online or it will be a blend of both or like what do you think will be the right strategy my personal opinion again is i think it's going to be a blend but primarily primarily we have to get back to the classroom teaching my experience has been last year it was very very challenging because teaching online you're talking to a brick wall students switch off their their their their mics they switch off their videos and they're out of the room they're not even there and when i ask a question um mr ogrewolf what do you think you know and mr this is this is this has been not my my experience it's been a common experience at the university um that said uh when you when you when your audience is a mature audience people like me who study with the open university you know we are serious people and most of the learning takes place at our own speed in our own time we have the one virtual classroom once a month where the professor says good now now that you've done this i want you to go away and do x y z and oh by the way don't forget to read it those three hubbard case studies and and also that and then write an essay so it also depends on the maturity of the students and i dare say the uh the quality of the students has gone down and this was my talk when i talked about the susan and robot problem the other day you know we need to pull up the robots to come up to the level of susan susan is self-motivated robert is there because he's there he's not even he's not even sure why he's at university and therefore we need to change the way we teach it'll be more effective if you stand in front of a class that's my experience the other experience i can share with you is when i was physically in teaching the chinese are very heavily influenced by my confucian ideas you know guruji is very very important now chinese students are told because of the one child policy each child has mom and dad and two sets of grandparents there are six adults looking after this little child you know the young emperor or the young empress and he and he or she's just told you will go to school high school university and get the grades nothing else forget everything so the culture is very different the attendance is a hundred percent those kids are very serious and when i went to teach them online this year because i covered 90 they were all there i didn't lose a single student and they've performed phenomenally well in their exams and what i did with them was independently valued by their own professors and assists so now i don't know how whereas my experience with our uk students here was very different um i don't know you told me yeah we have we we we're a freer society and kids are very strong individuals i will watch the recorded lecture but now students are saying they'd rather come to the live recorded lecture i mean take this for example i'm sitting here you can ask me questions in real time but if you watch the recording of this and people have asked questions and there was a question that you wanted to ask me you haven't had that opportunity to ask me that question so you missed out and it could have been a very important question it could have been so important it forced me to think differently so it works both ways and it's i think we need to bring back the i mean go back to classroom teaching essentially most of the time and but what we do in the classroom is we need to put the students at the heart of learning get them to do the work provide them with a scaffold you climb up this is your destination i'll help you build a scaffold but you've got to make the effort and it needs a lot of encouragement from us a lot of love and affection you know you know when i say that and i say that in a in a fatherly way um children need need nourishment you know guidance all the time the responsibility between students and yes i agree well that's my wife commenting by the way she did a lot of research for me to do this talk so full marks to my dear wife neil come on keep me asking questions uh participants if you would like to ask any questions you can interact with the professor speak your mind really please don't be don't be what's the word it's very important for us to know what you're thinking this is the whole point of conferences you know you know i was told in china the culture is if you go to a conference and i've experienced this myself chinese professors will never never never ask questions because it's their upbringing they're taught the first bird that tweets gets shot and it's the same thing in the classroom they will not ask questions so what do i do in china what i'm teaching i said quite in front of the clause and said i'm not talking to you i'm not talking to you and you can do the same with our students our students probably won't stop talking but they're talking about cricket that's the difference that's fine you know you to have learning should be a joy not not a punishment i've taught at jane university i have very very happy memories i i'm constantly in touch with my former students you know fantastic and they've done fantastically well in their careers as well so um we must be doing something right and you know i'll say this quite plainly you know the my experience of staff at jane university and other universities in india they're brilliant brilliant people um but you know i think we we need to change our methodology of teaching our way of teaching but instead of talk and talk less of chalk and talk and more of student interactive interaction this is why i was talking about the textbooks the other day which have activities at the end of each chapter get the students to do the activities and you know your role should be a supervisory role um not not not reading the textbook to them far from it they go and do their own work and no polar point presentations but that's me that's me not because i'm lazy it's just that i i will not summarize the textbook for them they need to go and read it and make their own notes and then do the exercises and make sure they get up to the exam standard and get up to exam speed as well you need to prove to yourself that you can do it and in doing that you will fly through the exam or 14 14 questions what are we sure sir uh dr dinesh neel khan has conveyed his regard oh thank you very much sir namaskar thank you so much my pleasure to be here and i'm quite and i'm more than happy you know we've got the scoreboard 19 and we've got this different um the indian scientists were saying yesterday i was reading up there's a new dangerous video that's that's that's rearing his ugly head in india and he's coming to europe and countries as well so until such time that i can physically come out to jain university i'm quite happy to do online classes with you with anybody else who who wants to enlist me i'm retiring from cardiff university at the end of the month and i'm completely free i'll be teaching part-time from september but uh but i'd rather i'd rather be out in in india doing things rather than rather than suffering cold called british winters so yes we can have joint sessions and with your with your students and i'll be delighted to participate and share my ideas sure thank you so much sir thank you so much for such a knowledge back session and taking your time from your busy schedule to be part of this conference it's a matter of great privilege and honor to have you with us today it's been a real pleasure and i'm i'm deeply honored too but you know i'd like to say this finally that you know i'm very very i'm a very proud and very proud of bharat mother and you know we can we can really make a difference to the world um we're a very old civilization and i've also realized when i was during my visit to china china and india are two very old civilizations um they have a lot to offer you know i'll say this very simply in plain english we we had we had we had a civilization when the europeans were barbarians all right so think about it but you know if england had the first agricultural revolution if england had the first industrial revolution the beatness hands down the british empire had its days come and gone and barcelona lost but now it's the turn of china and i remember reading a joke once where in a bible class the teacher says to the children jesus made everything and one boy puts up his hand and says no a lot of things are made in china now there you go that's where we're at now either we will catch up because they will destroy us you know nobody wants competition in their neighborhood neither would we so we're on to a race for we need to cha cha chase those fdi's coming in we need to it should be not a trickle but a flood of that that's the sum total of my talk today and we need to put the ecosystem in place which is what dr terencing was saying i'm not telling anything new okay with that i'll say uh namaskar and thank you very much again and look forward to working with you in the near future thank you so much this brings us to the end of the first day of two-day international conference on self-reliant and they're building global competitiveness through innovation integrity and inclusion in collaboration with bangalore chamber of industry and commerce i hope your experience has been fruitful and productive thank you everyone for being part of this conference and see you all again tomorrow with more insightful and illuminating sessions tomorrow the session will start at nine o'clock i request all the participants to fill the feedback form before leaving because you will not get your certificate of participation if the feedback is not filled by you till then take care and have a great day thank you sir thank you everyone you