N/A welcome to the Don Lemon show everyone we're still here in a minute I'm going to bring you my conversation with Elon Musk the one that everyone is talking about but first let me tell you a bit about the show contrary to what you might have heard we weren't cancelled by X yes after months of begging me wooing me to offer some exclusive content on his platform Elon Musk decided to scrap the deal but our plan is and always has has been to release this show everywhere on YouTube on Spotify on iHeart radio just about any place you stream content now for my conversation with Elon as with all my interviews no restrictions no ground rules nothing off limits or out of bounds that is until the interview ended so what went wrong I don't know but my hope is that you learned something about both Elon and me two people who come from completely different Vantage points on almost every single issue and I challenge you Elon to watch the whole interview and tell the world why this isn't what you claim you want on X thank you for inviting us here you're welcome Tesla headquarters I it's I'm surprised how big it is I've never seen it yeah it's about three times the size of the Pentagon yeah and we' built it in 16 months it's the fastest construction project in the United States since uh World War II so I'm here you know as you know I'm on the platform because you are you say you're a free speech absolutist right there no conditions uh yeah free speech is as as much as possible within the bounds of the law yeah so the reason I'm saying that is because there are no conditions on this interview you said that you know we speak to you for an hour I don't like sound bite so I welcome that so let's get into it so we're here in Austin South by Southwest is going on we're at the Tesla headquarters you are in the process of moving SpaceX here I understand no uh so uh space has a a massive uh facility in south Texas where we build and launch Starship and then we we have um in bash near Austin we uh are about to start production at a a stall link uh a large Starling Factory for stalling terminals but it's uh but we're not shutting down any facilities in California um listen we are here as part N/A of a launch of a news interview show that is going to be on x.com uh it's coming as a media industry as you know is going through a whole lot of changes X has also been affected by that where do you see xcom's role in the future of news and journalism Elon well I I think the I see the the X as uh it's it's already the number one source of news uh in the world so it is number one uh the number one way that people actually are informed about any kind of news meaning realtime events is uh on the X platform forly Twitter um there's there's nothing even close for realtime news so um we also want to expand upon that um and we've we have done so with the long form content so instead of just doing what used to call tweets you canot do long form posts you can post an entire essay in fact you can now uh put an entire book post an entire book to the platform um you can do long form video content uh so you can do uh up to 4-Hour video segments um we really want news in whatever form it is or information I should say in whatever form it is to be available on our platform whether it's short long text pictures video whatever the case may be yeah and some of the stuff that we do long Fromm video interview shows what have you you um you reached out over the summer and you said it would be great to have mat Don Lemon others on the left put on this uh platform you receive full support the digital Town Square is for all what do you mean by that well just mean that uh we want to make sure that there are a wide variety of viewpoints that it's uh you know we obviously have for example tug cson who uh most people will view as being on the right um and uh you know that's that's a quite quite a prominent name on the right we want to have uh prominent names on the left as well uh to provide uh different views of points of view uh as well as centrists just basically a wide range of viewpoints on the platforms so users can uh hear different opinions uh you they can hear you know what is what's your point of view what's s's point of view and make and you know and people can make their own decision about what they what they believe you didn't mean that I'm on the left did you think that I thought you were on the left but I don't know I used well let's just say I don't know what the left is or the right is frankly these days because things can be quite polarized but you seem my impression was that you're you're you're be more likely to be described as on the left than the right uh I might might sense as you're sort of Center left I don't know you tell me well did you ever watch me on CNN or did you watch I saw I saw say yeah yeah not I I've saw segments yeah me CNN is generally considered left yeah why do you say that why do I say CNN is generally considered left uh I think if if you look at any sort of media survey of what is on the left or right I think they would say like for example Fox is on the right and CNN is on the left yeah so that's what is it am I missing something here okay are you missing something I don't know I I think that what you when I read that I said like many uh of my critics or detractors they never really watched me on CNN they just saw the clips of me either on social media or maybe on Fox news or conservative media where it's sort of a where I become a character or a caricature of what I actually am and has taken out of context uh sure well how would you describe yourself yourself um I would describe myself as someone who is I I I am independent in my thinking and I vote for People based on the issues and how I feel about it not necessarily because uh of political leaning of some sort well I agree with that approach I think that's generally how yeah how people should uh you know take things which is I mean there there are a whole sort of set of issues which are sort of somewhat arbitrarily bucketed into right or left um but I think most I think most citizens uh would think that they would agree with some things on the left but not everything or agree on some things on the right but not everything um so uh that's that's what um I think most people will feel I guess how much longer maybe maybe the answer is forever how much longer are we going to have to call it the formally known as Twitter I mean even Prince went back to prince instead of is it always going to be X it's definitely always going to be X so X is going through some changes is said a lot um of media companies are going through some changes it's it you're in charge of an incredible platform Elon how do you feel that's going I think it's going pretty well so far um we're seeing record usage um we've added a tremendous amount of functionality I mentioned the uh that you know it used be that you can only do short you know text and maybe a a picture or something like that short video um but now you can do long form text long form video uh We've added audio video calling uh so you can not not just just do text DMS you do order video calling um we've improved the algorithm I think significantly um and um made the system faster and better and best reflected in the increased usage so let's talk about that because you said you wanted all points of view right it's it's a digital Town Square for all yeah it's the the the platform has kind of picked up where conservative media some conservative media has left off um that moving to the right increasingly becoming part of a conservative dialogue and sometimes even conspiracy theories right there was an article recently written about you saying that you Donald Trump and X were the most important um people uh or places or whatever icons when it comes to the magga movement do you agree with that how do you feel about that uh well I mean there are nonsense articles written all the time and I certainly wouldn't agree with that one I put in the nonsense category so uh the the the objective fact of the matter in my opinion was that um uh old Twitter was fundamentally a of the the farle As and that was really I think a lot of it was due to being located in San Francisco Bley um and so uh it wanted to essentially project the SF Bley uh political Dogma worldwide you think it was far left yes I do I I used to get I actually got off the platform because I would get so much hate tweets when it it was called in so much hate tweets and and just Guff from right-wing conspiracy theorists being called everything from you know to sure it's the internet you know the people will do I I've been called every name times a thousand yeah do you agree that it's right now and that even it's moved into sort of magal land conspiracy theory don't I certainly don't think it's right um the the old school Twitter uh suspended and suppressed uh accounts that you'd call on the right 10 times well they did accounts on the left and even when they did suspend an account on the left uh it was because of arguments between two people on the left uh the political donations of old Twitter were 99% Democrat does that sound left red leftwing or right-wing to you the Twitter donations yes you know when they look at donations by from a company if a company donates n literally 99% of all donations are to Democrats does that strike you as a left leaning or a right leaning you mean the company donated I understand what you're saying what I'm trying to tell you is that uh Twitter employees people at Twitter their political donations were 99% literally 99% uh to Democrats that's obviously an extremely left-leaning group my question to leading into this is about magga you and speaking of magga you recently met N/A with Donald Trump in Florida what did you guys talk about uh I was at a dinner I was not dinner I was at a breakfast at a friend's place and Donald Trump came by that's it so you didn't go there to meet him I no I went to a a a friend of mine's house uh and said Donald Trump's coming by for breakfast is that uh just so you know like okay fine what did you discuss i' I um let's just say uh he did most of the talking what did the normal things he says there was nothing particularly groundbreaking on you but uh he you know uh president Trump likes to talk and so he talked I I don't call him saying anything that he hasn't said publicly uh and that was it was just a breakfast did he ask you for money he didn't did he ask you for a donation no he didn't you said you're not going to donate to any candidate that's correct why not I think uh while I I'll voice my opinion um I think uh I don't want to I don't want to put a thumb on the scale monetarily that is you know significant are you going to loan him money to help pay his bills no not at all pay his legal bills I'm not I'm not paying paying his legal bills in any way shape or form and he did not ask you for money and he did not ask me for money are you going to so you're not going to endorse a candidate I may in the final stretch endorse the candidate uh but I don't know yet uh I want to make make a considered decision uh before the election uh and if I do decide to endorse a candidate then I will explain exactly why are you leaning towards anyone no you're not leaning towards anyone because you've been I'm leaning leaning away from Biden you're leaning I've made no secret of that are you concerned about losing your security clar Clarance if Biden is reelected does that have anything to do with it no you are leaning away from Biden but you're not going to Endor anyone it seems like an endorsement of President Trump because there are only two people who are running now Nikki Haley is out I mean a lot can happen between now and the election so we'll see who in their final analysis uh are the choices for president um and at that point I may or may not endorse uh one of the candidates if I do I will provide a very uh beel explanation of why I endorsing one or the other at that point might you contribute or donate uh I I think it's unlikely so you N/A have been posting up a storm as you always do in the past couple weeks about the redesign of the Tesla uh roster coming at the end of this year are there any kind of updates that you can talk about that to expect from new flagship EV I mean Tesla's stock is down the last 6 months what's next for the company you know the stocks go up and down but what really matters is are we making and delivering uh uh great products the Tesla products are um outstanding uh last year the model Tesla Model y was the best selling uh car of any kind in the world so it was about 1 1.2 million units it was the best selling car despite being I think around 50% more expensive than the next bestselling vehicle um of any kind not just electric so um I think that's a testament to the incredible work of the Tesla team yeah um and uh we launched the Cyber truck obviously that's uh being very well received um we have uh I think over a million orders for the Cyber truck um so uh it's it's a really special product that is that I think the Cyber truck is one of those partu that Products that come comes along really once in several years maybe once a decade cyber Tru is a once a decade product it is so uh special and and I think it's our best product um so but everyone improves over time I mean Apple I thought my phone was here but Apple you know the phone got better over time that I'm sure the your your cars will get better over time you have been tweeting about the the updates in in the roosters there something that we should you did mention the roader so um like I don't want to give away you know much more than what I've said uh publicly except that the Roadster will be uh a collaboration between SpaceX and Tesla so you know you can expect some rockety stuff there a flying car maybe it's not out of the question go on no I I got to I got to reserve the cool stuff for the you know when we actually Avail it but it's it's it's going to it's going to be really cool it's going to have um it's going to have some rocket technology in it um I think the really the only way to do something that's cooler than the Cyber truck is is to combine the SpaceX and and and Tesla technology to create something that's not even really a car then what would it be something that's never existed before I'm getting Jetson's Vibes totally Jetson's Vibes it'll and the W may not be aware like some things that I have said publicly is that it'll do 0 to 60 in under 1 second so um that's by far faster than any uh you know sports car that that exists um and um and that's not even the most exciting thing about it does it have wings no it do it does not have big wings cuz big wings would be on whey on the road does it have propellers it does not have propellers it has wheels does have wheels Road for 20 questions it has it does it have a steering wheel not exactly what is it well it'll have it'll have a drive by wire uh yoke essentially like a kind of like the way aircraft are modern jets are controlled and do you think it's the way of the future that everyone will follow your lead on this I don't think anyone will ever make anything like the uh the the road through that that we're going to make let's talk now about um SpaceX Tesla you got a lot of lawsuits you've got x.com N/A you got a lot going on how do you relax well um my I relax I spend time with my kids my friend friends and I you know make somewhat of a l technologist I like playing video games so uh I'll play video games with with with friends online which one I me lately I've been playing Diablo um and um but I've played almost all the games over the years uh a long time ago I was like Semi-Pro good at Quake this is really dating me uh because we're talking about like one than 25 years ago I don't know video games I just know that my uh my great nephew loves fortnite and some other stuff he's always with the headphones and and doing the thing so that helps you relax right so yeah and you the nice thing is you've got if you've got friends in different cities and they're playing the same game you can both go online at the same time and uh play the game together even though you're in different cities listen I'm not asking you anything that anyone else hasn't asked you about um your N/A controversial stuff that you tweet you post a lot of controversial stuff is that considered blowing off steam um well I I guess I do en enjoy using the platform I mean I do call um the xplatform the the PVP or player versus player uh platform um so in video games there's uh player versus like environment um where you're not playing against other people people um and then there's PVP which is like hardcore you're actually playing against other people and uh but that's blowing off steene for you yeah yes it is to some degree not always I mean obviously I use it for uh to post jokes to post uh you know sometimes trivia uh sometimes things that are of great importance uh so you do a lot of it at night like late at night so when you're doing this are you are you sober when you do it almost always under the influence of anything uh no I don't I don't drink I don't really no I no so you not no drink no smoke no nothing I mean you smoke pot with Rogan I had one puff yeah I think anyone who smokes pot can tell I don't know how to how to smoke PLT but you've admitted that you've had you have a kety prescription yeah yeah yeah what's that for well I mean it's pretty private to ask somebody about a medical prescription you know um but uh it's I think it's something I'd say like uh there are times when I have um sort of uh I don't know at like negative chemical state in my in my brain uh like depression I guess you know is or or or like depression that's not linked to any negative views um and and and then uh kemy is helpful for uh getting you getting one outs out of a negative frame of mind well listen I I in fact I generally obviously I'm not a doctor but I would say uh if someone has depression issues they should consider talking to the doctor about camine instead of ssris listen I I think that um ketamine uh and drug therapy is uh increasingly becoming more in the mainstream yeah do you think that you're doing it under a doctor's care right yeah yeah literally prescription from an actual a real doctor not like you know yeah but do you do you feel like you ever abuse it I don't think so if you use too much Academy and you can't really get work done so I have a lot of work so I'm I'm typically putting in like you know 16 hour days that's normal for me and it's it's it's rare for me to even take off a weekend day so I don't really have like you know a situation where I can be not mentally acute for an an extented period of time like I can't I can't really get wasted with when CU I can't get my work done so how often do you take it um well it'd be like a small amount once every other week or something like that but there's I mean there's not on the bottle where it says take this dose this many times a week or whatever if it's dose I there are several weeks to go by where I don't use it you don't use it yeah I think it's like I said I think the the what I find K is if you if you like literally like a chemical state in your brain that you can't you can't just think yourself out of then uh ketamine can is helpful for getting you out of a depressive mind State you suffer from depression or you have a depressive mind State and I asked is someone who has suffered from refers I wouldn't say that I I I wouldn't say that I have like a a case of like extended depression um it's just once in a while I get into a a negative sort of chemical mind State once in a while it's not a not a common thing um but once in a while it this happen where do you think that comes from I think it's just genetic basically you think it's just genetic history I think so um yeah I mean some people like just wired wired to be happy all the time uh some are unfortunately wired to be sad a lot of the time um and in my case uh I'm you know I'm generally pretty pretty positive and optimistic uh but once in a while uh I don't know what happens there some uh like I said I think chemical ties to your brain once in a while it's like a brain storm yeah do you ever worry that this may get in the way of your government contracts and clear es and also and Wall Street as well well from a standpoint of Wall Street uh what matters is uh execution you know uh are you building value for investors um Tesla is worth uh about as much as the rest of the car industry combined from nothing so I you know that's pretty good um as I mentioned we we had the best selling car on Earth last year um so for for investors point if there is something I'm taking I should keep taking it have you you talk about your ketamine use and depression have you you also have said and the reason I I should say like like the reason I mentioned uh the cem prescription on the xplatform was because I thought maybe this is something that could help other people that's why I mentioned it yeah can we talk about the great replacement Theory now um some of the things that you post N/A a great replacement Theory you claim that Democrats President Biden's immigration plan to open up the Border you said that there the president is getting and Democrats are doing it to get more votes um but undocumented immigrants cannot vote in federal election so how is that possible right um well you're conflating two things one is great replacement Theory uh the other is which I I don't subscribe to that I'm simply saying that there is an incentive here uh if uh legal immigrants wish I think have a very strong bias to at least everything I've read it's very strong wise to vot Democrat um the more more that come into the country the more they're likely to vote in that direction but it is in my view uh a simple incentive to increase uh voters to Democrat voters um and yeah so question is like how so there's there's a few there's a few ways that this works one is that uh when the census is done uh the census is based on all all people in an area whether they are CI citizens or not so uh if there are a concentration of uh people who came here illegally in in a in a particular state or uh any particular state that state will actually then get uh an increased number of House Seats so the the house seat apportionment is proportionate to the number of people not the number of citizens so the the the legals overwhelmingly go to places like California New York um and the if you just look at the the math if if if you look at the apportionment with and without illegals I believe California would lose I believe I believe the blue State there would be a net loss of blue states of approximately 20 seats in the house now this also applies to the the Electoral College so you say like well this also applies to to electing the president because the the same the electoral votes are also done by by apportionment the same way that house seats are done but the reason Elan the electoral college is in place is to to balance that so that that doesn't happen so what you're saying about it is the exact opposite of the reason why the the Electoral College is there the Electoral College at this point at this point in in our history gives people who are in smaller States and red States much more of an influence over our elections than people who are in blue States and the majority of the people in this country that's what the Electoral College does it actually does the exact opposite of what you're saying it protects people who are smaller States and protects people who are in red States well um red States because they tend to be smaller and less populous I think that that's that's say is is uh what you said is is true but what I said is also true uh which is that uh if if as is the case a disproportionate number of legal immigrants go to a blue States they amplify the effect of a of a blue state boat and the math as I understand it you can research this obviously very easily on the it's like it's it's pretty straight for to to research this but my understanding is that there would be uh that that the the Democrats would lose approximately 20 seats in the house uh if illegals were not counted in census and that's also 20 less electoral votes for president so legals absolutely do affect the uh who controls uh the house of the house and who controls uh the presidency it does not affect uh the Senate yeah in blue States you're talking about I don't believe that your information on on on uh that is right um so listen let's talk more about the great replacement because the first time you did you posted on exit about this Jewish conspiracy you ended up apologizing I didn't call it a conspir I just said that there's a simple matter of incentives you don't need a conspiracy when you have basic incentives in my view there's a basic incentive that is fundamental uh that uh for the Democrat Democratic party to Foster and Usher in a large number of legals and they and and and you don't need a conspiracy in that case because you have a very basic incentive you could say I'm wrong about that incentive but that's my view I I'm not buying to I don't buying some great replacement Theory I'm simply saying there appears to be a very clear incentive for uh Democrats to have to maximize number of illegals um because it helps them Inn election I'm talking about the great replacement theory is also part of a Jewish conspiracy theory and when you did the Tweet or you responded to the Tweet about that you ended up a ol oling and which I think is you know it's good that you end up apologizing you went to awit with Ben Shapiro yeah so you said you learned your lesson what did you learn I said I learned my lesson you said you learned your lesson when it when you apologized and you said you went to alth you saw what what no I was already already aware of of of of these things and the nature of my comment that that really inflamed people um what I was what I was trying to say and I did very quickly clarify this what I'm saying is that uh um a number of uh prominent uh Jewish philanthropists fund uh groups that they should really take a closer look at funding because some of the some of the groups they fund um I think are anti-semitic yeah do you understand the connection between the two there one there's a connection between you said Democrats a great replacement Theory but when it comes to the actual great replacement Theory originally was started about Jewish people as you said flooding in the country and then now people are using for Democrats saying the same thing about Democrats flooding my view it's a simple matter of incentives I I I'm I'm I don't actually don't see an incentive for uh Jewish people to want to have get legal immigration I don't I don't think there is such an incentive the great replacement theory is a a Neo-Nazi Trope it's in the Neo-Nazi Manifesto It's in the Turner diary it's referenced by the Buffalo Mass shooter uh and his Manifesto where 10 people um black people were murdered in Buffalo his actual title of the Christ Church Shooters Manifesto 51 people in the Muslim Mosque were murdered 23 people uh murdered in El Paso by a shooter who used the same language that you use in that Manifesto when you say Hispanic invasion is that not I didn't say an Hispanic Invasion and you tweeted you quoted a tweet that said that called it a Hispanic Invasion if I quote something it doesn't mean I agree with anything ever the end it it's is something that I want I think this is something wor people should consider why would you quote something that you didn't believe because anything I quote is going to have a whole range of statements doesn't mean I agree with everything in it do you think if there N/A if if you moderated yourself more if there was better content moderation on the platform that you wouldn't have to answer these questions from reporters about the great great replacement Theory as it relates I to question great replacement Theory as it relates to Jewish people do you think that I don't have to answer questions from rep quarters Don the only reason I've beening this is because you're on the xplatform and you asked for it m otherwise I would not do inter with this interview so you don't think you do you think that you wouldn't get in trouble or you wouldn't be criticized for these things cried possibly I could care less it you don't you don't care no I don't care why not I don't think people should care what the media thinks about them they're terrible judges of character even someone who has one of the biggest social media and biggest information Platforms in the world you don't think you don't care you don't think that there's you have any x.com or you have any responsibility to the truth or moderating the platform you're conflating the truth with the with the media and I think the media is uh not truthful well not with just the the media I mean just the truth in general I care about the truth very much that's why we have for example commun Community notes on the yek system um where uh in order for Community note to surface and uh provide corrective information about what somebody posts and and my FST s equally subject to this my I've been a community noted many times um the in order for before Community notes a surface uh people who have historically disagreed must agree in order for a community note to surface and all of the code for Community notes is open source all of the data is open source so you can completely recreate it from scratch the way to build trust is transparency I have noticed Community notes I think that you are right about that I do think Community notes are helpful I think any type of content moderation I do think that's helpful you recently called content moderation though a digital chastity belt do you think that you you believe that X and you have some responsibility to moderate hate speech on the platform I think we have a responsibility to adhere to the law and we have a responsibility to be transparent uh about when things are shown why they're shown uh so we that's why we uh open source our algorithm um the I think once you start getting going beyond the law now you're putting your thumb on the scale and we don't want to put out that on the scale it doesn't concern you that hate speech is gone research shows that it's gone up on the platform since you took over that's not concerning to you I believe that is false in fact the research that I've seen it says it it went down the study from The Institute of strategic dialogue found that anti-semitic tweets doubled from June 22 to February 2023 one study reported that as many as 86% of the posts reported for hateful content remained up after being reported hate speech on the platform is up uh so what what they will typically do is they will count the number of posts but not count the number of views so what matters is was that uh post given high visibility or what did like one person see it uh and if you look at the number of views of how how many how many times was ha content viewed on our platform it is down substantially yeah well that's not was what the study shows and you said you like transparency I'm going to show you this and and you can get a study that will tell you whatever you want but this is these are just a handful of extremely you look at those anti-Semitic and racist tropes and tweets and as of this morning they're still on X and from your own content policy these posts should have been deleted so why haven't they been deleted why are they still there did you uh we delete things if they are illegal but these have been up there for a while are they illegal they're not illegal but they're hateful and they can they can lead to violence as I just read to you the shooters you know in all of these mass shootings attributed social media to radicalizing so don you love censorship is what you're saying no I don't love censorship then why why you ask I believe in moderation but I I don't believe in censorship is a moderation is a propaganda word for censorship but don't you think free speech is one thing right or not you know look if something's illegal we're going to take it down if it's not illegal then we're putting out them on the scale and we're beinging censors you're putting your thumb on the scale for moderating hate speech I mean you don't put out child porn pornography that's not it's illegal that some people would say that's considered censorship I'm just saying you no I literally D you I literally said if if something is legal okay we will obviously remove it okay but if it is not legal the laws of this country were are put forward by the citizens we a democracy if those laws put in place uh by the by the people we adhere to those laws law of others if you go beyond the law you're actually going beyond the will of the people okay agreed with the law but if you are doing something that promotes hate and violence and ultimately leads to killing you don't feel there's you have any responsibility not to do that uh when when when the people who are doing it admitt are saying articles all the time that lead to to violence and killing um don't they shouldn't they like you're applying a differential standard to but that would never that would never be in mainstream media these types of images that type of language those things would never be we'd never in M when I was in mainstream media we'd never promote things that um would would be anti-semitic we would never promote things antic either did you you did you not see those you said promote if content is on the platform that doesn't mean we promote it but that wouldn't be on on a platform for mainstream media at all no but you can think of that that's because the mainstream media is has like whatever 20 articles a day uh we have 500 million posts today million does it bother you how do you feel about that when you see it I obviously disagree with that I think it's it's not good at all it's terrible but you don't want to get rid of it on the platform or at least moderate it the lules you're your what you're suggesting is censorship that goes beyond the law and what I'm saying is Uh I that we I guess have a disagreement because I do not believe in censorship that goes beyond the law and you do we have a difference of opinion in that regard I understand that but these are your own rules on your own platform the these go against the rules on your platform that's why I'm asking you if you had if you said listen we allow everything but that's not what your content rules say and that's why I'm asking you why are they still there the your own content policy that's why I'm asking you that not because which part of our content policy says that we have we should delete these the these things your content policy talks about hate speech Yes we don't promote hate spe hate speech and so you don't consider that hate speech I guess you're understanding what I'm saying there's there's there's if if if there's you you can find like you can sign up right now and and and do a hundred things that are hateful um but if nobody reads it it doesn't matter so you you can think of X as being it's much like the Internet it's not some some tiny publication with like 20 articles it's 500 million uh but everyone has the opportunity to read a Elon theity to read the internet are you said it suggesting we should shut down the internet no but but you don't own the internet I'm asking you about you and your responsibility and your platform and I I so I see how you feel now you don't agree we don't agree on this yes you want censorship and I don't no I don't want censorship at all yes you do no I want responsibility I think there's I think there you desperately want censorship no if I want to censorship you want censorship so bad you can taste it no that's not true it's not true I think that there's right and wrong what and I and I think that when you have a platform that's as big as yours and as powerful as yours and as inferential as yours and you are a person of consequence to the world with what you do that there is a certain responsibility that goes along with what you have on your platform and what you put out to the world and I I think that's important you don't see that responsibility um I think the we have a responsibility to uh adhere to the law um and if people want the law changed they should talk to elect talk to their elected representative and get the law changed and then we will adhere to the law okay but if you want us to go beyond the law that is that is uh us deciding to be censors so and I'm against censorship I'm I'm in favor of freedom of speech and freedom of speech only is relevant when people you don't like say things you don't like otherwise it has no meaning but I I do think that there are there should be guard rails and I believe in free speech as much as you I would fight I don't I don't disagree I don't agree with um a lot of what you put out on social media but I will fight for your right to be able to say it great yeah okay so listen let's talk about diversity equity and inclusion all right that's been a target N/A of yours lately on X you uh on there was a repost of bench Bureau that you claim that Dei is killing people specifically you point to medicine you claim that Dei programs are putting people at risk do you really believe this to be true and what evidence do you have to support it um what I was referring to there was that if uh if we lower the standards for doctors uh such so that they you know if if a test for a doctor is lowered uh then the probability of them making a mistake and killing someone is obviously going to be higher wait say that again I I'm not sure I understand what you said I want to make sure I understand what you're saying actually yes if if these if the stands for passing medical exams and becoming a doctor or especially something like a surgeon if the standard are lowered uh uh then the probability that the S will make mistake is higher they're making mistakes in their exam they they may make mistakes with people and that may result people dying what evidence do you have though that they're lowering the standards there's no evidence of that Bel there is there's no evidence of that Elon what what is the evidence I I believe they have literally lowered the standards at at Duke University and that is what the article was referring to there's no they have not lower the standards there's no evidence about uh lowering standards and I think that there is um leave that as a false statement you're making okay well we we'll figure it out yeah I think inter thing is when this is posted on the xplatform there will be a whole bunch of things that reut what you said and what what I said and so people can then make their own decision based on the replies and the rebuttal and the community notes I think that's fair but I do think that on this particular topic I do think that you and Ben Shiro are reaching in about this because there was a what what Ben posted said that people were he gave instances of people who were deliberately uh harming people um nowhere in the thread does Ben suggest at all I should say that anyone is being killed as a a result of Dei um that's purely speculative there's research on Dei and medicine and there's no no evidence that standards are being lowered okay that Dei is affecting medicine actually like only five% of doctors are black and a small percent yeah I think you'll find that when this is posted to ex platform that uh people will reply to it with evidence Maybe I'm Wrong let's see okay so but that's my whole thing about moderation maybe you're wrong but you'll put it out there you don't know if it's right do you think that your responsibility to make sure something is right before you the person who owns it Elon Musk who's a huge figure in the world that you should know that it's true that some there are people at X who can get research for you before you put something out there like that that's not necessarily true even in other examples um if I say something that uh is inaccurate I'm immediately corrected on the platform that's the advantage of a realtime uh system like X so there will be immediately in the replies corre people correcting me there will be Community note that will correct me um which is attached to the actual post itself do you think as many people read the yes you think as many people read that as it read your Tweet yes in fact and if if there's a community note that happens uh later that or somebody didn't see but they replied to that uh interacted with that post we will notify them that there is now a community note correcting that post just so you whereas if you consider the conventional media that doesn't happen conventional media makes false statements all the time with no and nobody ever hears the correction when I was in conventional media I can only speak for myself if I got something wrong or if someone got something wrong on the platform that that I was on it was corrected and we made sure that it was corrected now I can't speak for anyone else that's I think I don't think that's a universal situation okay so I just want just the research so when you talk do you believe that people are dying because medical standards Dei is causing medical standards to be lowered do you actually believe people are dying because of that I I believe that it uh if if we if we lower the stats for what it takes to become a doct you're saying if we lower the stands but do you believe people are dying because the standards are being lowered I I don't or have think that is yes an issue but it could become an issue okay but the actual evidence in history shows the exact opposite if you look at how minorities are treated by the medical system most doctors most doctors now are white and there are lots of mistakes in medicine so you're saying that my doctors are have bad Medical Care I'm trying to understand your logic here when it comes to Dei because there's no actual evidence of what you're saying no I I said so if the standards like like let's say uh I think that particular thing was referring to surgeons let's say a surgeon is is asked to a a surgeon in training is asked to do a series of operations under the supervision of a senior surgeon and they get a bunch of those operations wrong if if if if that happens and if they are still approved to be a surgeon the probability that someone will die I think at some point is high okay I understand that but that's a hypothetical that doesn't mean it's happening I didn't say it's happening you you didn't say it was happening I said I said it will you but I said if if if if we lower status people people will die but why respond to something or put something out there that has not happened because I could say you know I don't want it to happen I think we don't lowest lowest standards okay if you look at the history of the medical industry um especially when it comes to Black Americans it shows the exact opposite if you look at the Tuskegee experiment and on and on only 5% of doctors are in America are black all of them are white so are you saying that if the majority of doctors are white are you saying that D and there are still these inequities right and there's and people still they're still mistakes are you blaming Dei for that no I'm I'm very very basic Al saying that if we lower standards uh for what it takes to become uh a Bo certified surgeon uh or you know an oncologist or something where that where the the kind of disease we're talking about if you make a mistake causes someone to die then there more people will die than if we don't lower the standards therefore we should not lower the standards but why do you think they're lowering the standards for minority doctors or women doctors or that's what the the that's what that article suggested yes at at Duke University okay the evidence that I have shows that that's not true so listen after the door blew off this um mid-flight in this Alaskan Airlines flight do you remember that um you responded a post claiming that the average H HBCU grad was less intelligent than the average airline pilot uh and stated that it will take an airline crashing an airplane crashing and killing hundreds of people for them to change this crazy policy of diie I don't know if you did you misspell it on purpose which should be de EI do you believe that women and minority Pilots are inherently less intelligent and less skilled than white male Pilots no I'm just saying that we should not lower the standards for that okay but there's no evidence that standards are being lowered when it comes to the airline industry you've repeatedly said that there's no evidence that standards being lowered and watch the replies showing all the evidence that it is replies though on social media or are not necessarily fact and evidence that's people they will site all the in the replies to this you will see how often the this the the information is cited showing that indeed there are significant uh cases where uh standards are lowered and I do hope that happens I do hope that happens and and I look forward to and as you said if you're wrong then you're wrong and if I'm wrong then I'm wrong yes okay so let's so and I'm glad we're having this conversation debate this is what you should we should be doing debating the issue so if I'm wrong then I'm wrong and then they'll be proven in the thing and you as well but I just want to tell you that that pilot that you talked about in fact was a woman pilot landed the plane safe safely despite the major malfunction with the equipment Boeing has taken responsibility for that incident saying that it was caused by a faulty door panel so I'm not sure what that had to do with lowering the standards for Pilots when it was a FAL not lowering stands for Pilots it's it's the the inent of structure uh I I believe at Boeing changed to uh include Dei as as uh as as a fundamental executive incentive um so but in my view it should be purely about passenger safy okay but do you understand how by saying just that standards are being lowered that you're implying that they're being lowered because people are less skilled and less intelligent and you're talking about people of color and or women uh look I'm I'm saying we should not lower standards but do you you don't that's it I think everyone can agree that you can't you shouldn't lower standards right that's but you're implying that they're lowering standards because of people of color or women because someone is not a white male you're saying that they're less skilled and less intelligent that's what you're say no I'm not saying that I'm simply saying that they are then why would they be lowering the standards I don't know why are they lowering the standards just so you know 5% of Pilots are female 4% are black so you're you know you're talking about this widespread takeover minorities and women when it's not actually true I'm not saying this why I take over well you're saying that the standards are being lowered because of certain people um you how do you you don't believe in Dei right do you not believe divers in diversity equity and inclusion I think we should be uh treat people uh according to their skills uh and their integrity and that's it do you know that study show study show yeah well we can look him up well so your reaction to study show and understand right because I always like to say I always like to point to an exact uh study right sure something that is factual it's the same thing when you talk about well let's see what the replies are on Twitter or on X I so I feel the same I feel the same way about that but this is what studies have sh and people will reply and they'll say that companies with more diversity and their leadership teams have reported higher Innovation raceing those with a lower um with lower diversity a low diversity and they they're better companies and they make more money this whole idea about Dei if you go woke or whatever you go broke that's not necessarily true people with diverse leadership teams and diverse um workers make more money and more Innova um like I said my view is that the the only basis for promoting somebody should be uh their skills talents and uh their integrity and that's I want to ask you about there's a there's a federal government uh EEOC they are also currently involved in a lawsuit against Tesla that alleges that there's a history of widespread racial harassment against black Tesla employees as well as a pattern of retaliation for speaking out what do you say to that uh well uh there's I I don't believe that is that is true um I think we've got a very good uh uh like if if you walk around the the te the Tesla Fremont plant I think it's a very good atmosphere um in fact I I practically lived there for 3 years trying to make the production work were you aware if you live there were you aware of such Behavior I never saw it so you're saying that this is not true it's not happening well I mean there's over 20,000 people so you say like if there's over 20,000 people in one building um well is everyone going to be behaved perfectly no did I see any any situations that I thought were uh improper I did not uh let's talk about N/A trans rights and the woke mind virus because youve talked about that a lot you're right about that a lot on the thing you have been deeply outspoken about the issue of trans right you posted trans writes you posted that pronouns in bio mean the woke mind virus ate your brain do you know what the term woke actually means um it's come to mean a lot of things but what it actually what originally it was meant to mean it's just being aware of inequities in society and and being aware of facts and and history yeah I think it's come to be I think I think being aware of inequities in society is fine of course um but uh trying to blame everything uh on on trying to make everything a race issue is uh I think a divisive and corrosive to society even as it relates to trans isues which is what I'm yeah race or you know gender or whatever you think blaming you think that Society blames everything on racism now it blames a lot of things on it and uh yeah you think that's unfair yeah why I think I think we should we should uh not not make this a constant uh subject I think we need to move on I think we're just you know um treat people like people you don't agree that there's this country was founded on racism and founded on slavery and and in many ways inequities um that's still continue on to the St I think every country uh at that time and I think even today was extremely racist um every country um and um obviously uh slavery was present in uh by half of this country um and no but not was not present in the in the uh North uh there was racism for sure uh but you know the I I think we we we want to look to the future rather than the past um and uh instead of engaging in uh constant rehashing of the past uh because in fact if you look at history if you study history broadly everyone was a slate everyone yes well not everyone was a slave everyone was a slave okay but we we are we are we are all descended from slaves yeah all of us yeah um it's just a question of when is it was it more recent or less recent that's it right um so the but what what Future do We want is this something we want to make part about constant dialogue forever or do do we want to say like let's just move on and treat everyone uh you know uh according to just who they are as an individual I agree with you with that that's the ideal but what the evidence shows is that that's not what's actually in practice I think we're doing it better than anywhere else that that's true I agree with that but that doesn't mean anything that doesn't mean a lot to a whole lot of people who are able to take advantage of the opportunities that you were able to take advantage of simply because the color of your skin what advant what what advantage is my color my skin give well there's a certain there's an ease that you have in society that you that many people of color don't you were able to come to this country voluntarily there are many people who were not able to come to the country voluntarily there people who came here as slaves me to come here and there is a legacy of slavery that still continues on there's a legacy of racism that still continues on in this country that's and that's undeniable well if if if we keep talking about it non-stop it will never go away if we keep making up the central thing it will never go away why do you believe that I think I'm just making a simple statement of fact um so I think I think we want to get away from making everything a race or a gender or whatever issue and just treat people like individuals do you have any desire to understand what many people of color and even trans people um how they feel about this country and how they're treated in this country if they if they say and they believe that they are treated a certain way in this country why don't you believe them you you cannot have a situation where where someone is a self-described victim and and they and they just get to be that because that's how they feel I think that that does happen in some cases but not all cases and I think that not understanding the history of the country I think is um is a real shame look I've had we should country and other countries I've had incredible opportunities as a person of color right but I've also been but I've also been discriminated against and I know that I have and I know that that's real and for someone to say that that isn't happened and I should not I should just move forward and not think about that and ignore the past is insulting I'm not saying it D you keep putting words in my mouth I'm not saying it's I didn't say that you said I'm saying that we want to we we as we as a country should move Beyond questions of of of race and gender and we should treat people like individuals and and base our opinions on them on the you know uh their uh their their character and their skills I don't think that anyone will disagree with that exactly all I'm saying is that that's not happening and is not equal for everyone that those opportunities don't happen for everyone and I am a living example that they don't I know that they don't because I live it you've been incredibly successful I have been in spite of it all but I but I am I know what I know I've experence what I've experienced you haven't done that and I cannot um I don't know what it's like to be from South Africa I don't know what it's like to be a white man I don't know what it's like to be a woman I don't know what it's like to be Latino person I don't know that so I wouldn't speak for them and just say you need to move on that's not for me to say I maybe I believe that the country it would be great if the country could live up to that ideal you think that everyone has the same opportunities in America regardless of their background and eth ethnicity do you agree you no I don't think everyone has the same option AIDS okay so um when you talk about let's talking about trans right when you decided to um to talk about the the trans Rights Movement um you said that it was a woke mind virus why do you believe the trans Rights Movement is a woke mind virus what do you mean by woke mind virus WWI viruses um when you you st carry about uh people's skills um and their integrity and you start focusing instead on gender and Brace and other things that are different from that um I think uh the worldwi virus is fundamentally racist fundamentally sexist and fundamentally evil okay and we've got a little bit more time so you choose your question okay okay thank you for that but you I would appreciate you answering these I think it's important that doing this I think it's important to the to world the world to hear this especially what's going on uh in our country the reason I ask you listen there are a whole lot of things that people may be uh have questions about when it comes to transgender people even people who are part of the lgbtq plus Community have have questions about that but if you are a free speech absolutist right um and that is part of the First Amendment also the freedom of expression falls under that first amendment as well so why can't people choose to identify with the gender that they feel comfortable with or with a use a pronoun isn't that part of freedom of expression uh I guess though they can they can ask others to do whatever they feel they they can ask others to do anything what it it's a different question where they whether they mandate that others do that thing okay let's let's talk more about free speech and for advertisers right because all this N/A controversy I believe as you know has made um X less appealing to advertisers about half of them have left the platform you call advertisers that left x.com he said there were oppressors you've even gone as far as saying it publicly that they can go f themselves or go themselves ad if they're if they're going to force censorship on on the company uh before advertising then uh obviously I find that unacceptable you find it unacceptable why is that not a form of of free speech they are free to advertise where they want they're not beholden to they're not obligated to advertise next.com right so how is that not free speech they they that's whereas the other platforms will censor on behalf of of advertisers the xplatform will not okay so but you think it's you don't think it's okay for them not to advertise with or have their content or their advertisement next to something that is anti-Semitic or that is a different question uh you you we there's there's you can absolutely choose where next to which content do you want your advertising to appearer absolutely of course and we do we have I think very good ad placement controls in this regard yeah so you said if they kill the company it's them but doesn't the buck stop with you I mean I have to say choose your question carefully there's five minutes left okay but so is this the question you want to ask the same question question is you said you said that they are killing the company but you're the head of the company the buck doesn't stop with you I acquired X in order to preserve freedom of speech in America the First Amendment and I'm going to stick to that and if that means making less money so be it so I have to be listen I I'm just being honest right I'm not trying to like get you or anything I was just surprised that you would blame other people for killing the company I mean you're the I mean when you say the buck stops with the president of the United States regardless of what happens right so I why would the why would that question upset you seem upset by it are you I think you're and I'm not trying to upset you the well you are upsetting me because the way you're phrasing questions I think is is not cogent um it's not what not cogent cogent yes go ahead uh so uh the if if if if given a choice where an Advertiser is saying like you have to censor all this content on the platform irrespective of where advertising appears uh then our answer will be like look you you you can choose where you want your advertising what you want your advertising to appear next to but you can't insist on censorship of the entire platform if you insist on censorship of the entire platform even where your advertising doesn't appear uh then uh obviously we will we will not uh want them as an Advertiser so what what would you say to advertisers to who have left the platform or who are considering coming back or not coming back what would you like to say to them well first of all uh almost all of our advertisers are coming back pip so it's a very short list of advertisers who are not coming back to platform um and uh our advertising revenue is rising rapidly uh and our subscription revenue is rising rapidly and I feel very optimistic about the future of the XB B okay listen I'm not I'm honestly I'm not meaning to offend you you're an intense person where does that intensity come from I was born that way and had a tough childhood you did so yeah how so right wford Isaacson goes into it in the book and and we only have a couple minutes left so all right too long to describe um so there one or two questions I can do and then we'll to call it I okay again I don't mean to upset you why are you you just no I have a whole room full of people waiting to meet with me okay so we're just going over time okay all right I understand that um so you when you talk about you said you were born that way is that um did you you think that the way that you see the world has to do with your relationship with anyone perhaps your your father or someone in in your family I think we're all affected by the people we we grow up with um my aspiration is to uh do whatever it takes to extend the extend Consciousness into the future that's my goal um to make life multiplanetary as part of extending con Consciousness is the Future Has This has have the past few years and considering everything that's gone on has it been difficult for you in your family life it's been okay so then how do you see your legacy Elon H how how do you see how people see you in the first of all I say the um if I died knowing that I that I did what was right or or did my best to do what was right and even if in the history books they said I did did wrong I would still feel okay about that I care about the reality of goodness not the perception of it um I think we should view civilization uh as tenuous as fragile um if you if you do study history broadly you'll see the VIS right and P civilizations they don't always go up um so we should do everything we possibly can to preserve uh and and extend civilization as we know it yeah um and approve it um it's become more enlightened over time and we uh therefore want to address civilizational risks uh we want to make sure that uh we don't have for example demographic collapse which is the case in a lot of countries uh just very little birth rate um we want to avoid obviously avoid World War III anything that is a civilizational risk that's what I care about civilizational risks um how do we extend Consciousness into the future such that we are able to better understand the the nature of reality that's what I care about that's my motivation I know you have to go if you'll just give me I'll do a rapid fire thing here is if there is there anything that you would change about um anything that you've done in your life in the past or recently um I've made Ving mistakes over the years if I had a time machine i' go back and fix them uh but I don't have a time machine thank you thank you I appreciate it thank you so much so that's it and as Elon would say you be the judge let me tell you something about this show the conversation doesn't end just because the camera stops we'll see you next time thanks for watching thanks for watching the Don Lemon show click on the image on the top right to subscribe to my channel and the thumbnail and the bottom right to watch more content from my show I'll see you next time